These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[Lastcall]

13 hours ago, desiresrisked said:

I’m not sure I’d go all the way with it proving that he’s happy with the ending. There are other factors to consider. Like he may have already resigned himself to the ending they created and since it’s already written he might not want to “make waves” by having it be rewritten with the other one thrown out which would be an obvious outright slam about Dabb and Co. There might also be an issue with not being able to nail down the writer(s) they WOULD prefer to write it so just taking what’s already been done. They might also have a time crunch that wouldn’t allow for them to have someone else write it. I don’t know, I just don’t think if they go through with this script that it necessarily changes how Jensen feels about it and I wonder if we will ever know or if he will keep it contained. 

One of Jensen's main goals was to protect his show family and give them a year to find new jobs and transition out of the series. He accomplished that, anything he does now is for the fans and his own personal closure. He already warned the Dean fans they might not like what they plan to do and to take some time to process it and maybe come around. He has been a good promoter for the show and has tried to be as positive as possible but its impossible to know what the real story is. Jensen was in a position where he agreed to finish the show without knowing the ending. It required him to trust the writers and honor his contract. Now the tables have turned, he knows the ending and its up to him if he wants to sign off on it. So if he does then he is ok with the ending and ok with how the Dean fans will react. Again, I can live with that.

[Goldmoon]

The js need to contact edlund with a wish list!

[SueB]

20 hours ago, Myrelle said:

And Jensen, himself, has not said one word, anywhere, pertaining  to this that I  have seen-unless I missed it; and if so, by all means, do tell to anyone who has access to that scoop. 

 

Around Vegas Con timeframe he said he decided to read the last script out loud and couldn’t do it because it was too emotional.  

[Myrelle]

14 hours ago, SueB said:

Around Vegas Con timeframe he said he decided to read the last script out loud and couldn’t do it because it was too emotional.  

Yes, I saw that.

I was wondering more about how he felt concerning filming the last two episodes after contracts have expired.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Yes, I saw that.

I was wondering more about how he felt concerning filming the last two episodes after contracts have expired.

 

That, and just because it was emotional for him, doesn't mean it is 'good' for Dean or even for the Winchesters. It's going to be emotional to read the ending to a 15 year journey whether or not you like the way it ends, or think it's good, or anything else. It's still the end. 

[mertensia]

Shutting down for an unspecified period for Covid 19 is something unprecedented, though. The CW, probably like a lot of other channels, is going to be more or less making this up as they go along.

[ILoveReading]

https://thriveglobal.com/stories/mark-pellegrino-speaks-out-against-bullying-2020/

Its offical we are stuck with Mark P for the finale. 

Ugh.  Way to make the Michael storyline completely pointless.

[gonzosgirrl]

I thought I couldn't be any less eager to see the finale. I keep underestimating Andre Badd's ability to disappoint.

[DeeDee79]

By clinging to Mark Pellegrino Dabb continues to gleefully IMO ruin the legacy of SPN. Or should I say the legacy of Dean because Pellegrino's presence equals a Jack or Sam centric finale because Lucifer only has a connection with the two of them. Quite a coincidence (not) that they're Dabb's favorites. From what I've read I no longer have an interest in the finale especially since I haven't enjoyed what I've seen of season 15 ( or 14). I'm going to check in to see the thoughts of my fellow Dean girls before I watch but for the most part I'm just waiting for Jensen's next project.

[ILoveReading]

I lost interest in the finale the minute Jensen had to be convinced it was good.  He's got great instincts, if something didn't sit well with him, there is a reason.  He shouldn't have had to have multiple people explain why its a good ending. 

Dabb should have asked Jared and Jensen.  How do you want your characters stories to end, and worked toward that.

[starfishka]

38 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

https://thriveglobal.com/stories/mark-pellegrino-speaks-out-against-bullying-2020/

Its offical we are stuck with Mark P for the finale. 

Ugh.  Way to make the Michael storyline completely pointless.

Nooooooooooo. I think am gonna puke 🤢🤮

[Aeryn13]

5 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

By clinging to Mark Pellegrino Dabb continues to gleefully IMO ruin the legacy of SPN. Or should I say the legacy of Dean because Pellegrino's presence equals a Jack or Sam centric finale because Lucifer only has a connection with the two of them. Quite a coincidence (not) that they're Dabb's favorites. From what I've read I no longer have an interest in the finale especially since I haven't enjoyed what I've seen of season 15 ( or 14). I'm going to check in to see the thoughts of my fellow Dean girls before I watch but for the most part I'm just waiting for Jensen's next project.

I don’t think I'll watch. Nothing about it gives me any hope that it won't suck. And if it's another 5.22, I'll never want to see it.

[PAForrest]

13 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

https://thriveglobal.com/stories/mark-pellegrino-speaks-out-against-bullying-2020/

Its offical we are stuck with Mark P for the finale. 

Ugh.  Way to make the Michael storyline completely pointless.

I was really hoping due to the changes made to the last two episodes that Lucille would have been cut, though at the same time I assumed Drabb and the Nep Duo wouldn't let that happen because they're all such huge fans of this poser. Dragging down the narrative to the bitter end. And if Lucille shows up, that means Jack is still around - which I assumed anyway, despite Alex's criminal quarantine hair issues.

Not surprising, just extremely disappointing.

[Myrelle]

7 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

 And if it's another 5.22, I'll never want to see it.

This is what I feared from the moment that Jensen expressed his reservations about it and JP said that he ioved it.

[S Cook Productions]

6 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

I was really hoping due to the changes made to the last two episodes that Lucille would have been cut, though at the same time I assumed Drabb and the Nep Duo wouldn't let that happen because they're all such huge fans of this poser. Dragging down the narrative to the bitter end. And if Lucille shows up, that means Jack is still around - which I assumed anyway, despite Alex's criminal quarantine hair issues.

Not surprising, just extremely disappointing.

What kind of changes? Do we know anything specific?

[gonzosgirrl]

I am biased against Badd, there is no question of that, but regardless, I still can't fathom why they would bring Lucifer back for the end of the series. Is there anyone who was clamouring for more this story? Like, anyone at all?

I swear Pellegrino has some kind of heavy-duty blackmail material on one or more of the producers.

Even in that Zoom panel yesterday it seemed to me that Jared is still enthusiastic about the ending, while Jensen is... less so. Ugh. It was actually kind of nice not thinking about this the last couple months.

[bethy]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ugh. It was actually kind of nice not thinking about this the last couple months.

This was my realization, too. Which is just so, so sad given how much time and love I've invested in this show over the past 15 years. Sigh. 

[Pondlass1]

Dean Winchester will forever live in my heart.

But the thrill is gone for me. It disappeared a while ago. So at least the weaning process has been easy. Thanks Dabb for being the worst showrunner of all time. I won’t be snot sobbing into my wine during the final episode... I’ll be happy that  talented Jensen is finally released. 

[PAForrest]

3 hours ago, S Cook Productions said:

What kind of changes? Do we know anything specific?

No specifics, but Dabb's little assistant was talking about changes to the scripts on twitter a couple weeks ago. Then there's what Showalter said about the finale due to COVID a few weeks before that. And it's inevitable that changes have to be made because of new rules surrounding live shooting during a pandemic.

Edited August 10, 2020 by PAForrest

[Aeryn13]

20 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Dean Winchester will forever live in my heart.

But the thrill is gone for me. It disappeared a while ago. So at least the weaning process has been easy. Thanks Dabb for being the worst showrunner of all time. I won’t be snot sobbing into my wine during the final episode... I’ll be happy that  talented Jensen is finally released. 

While I agree it is nice that Jensen (and myself) will be free of the trainwreck, he did continue to sign on and I can understand it in terms of getting certain perks out of it (steady job, good paycheck, working with a crew he liked, negotiable work hours, directing etc) so my sadness is more for the character of Dean Winchester. I thought the Season 5 Finale sucked and was a waste of five years for the character. Now it will be 15! years.

And what`s bad is that I see zero rewatch potential in the show right now. Maybe ten years down the line after the dust has settled. If I even feel like it then.

@PAForrest

They probably made some minor chances but I can`t see any true changes in terms of the bare bones. I mean, they wanted Mark P. back apparently because god knows this show didn`t overuse him already a hundred years ago. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Aeryn13

[PAForrest]

17 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

@PAForrest

They probably made some minor chances but I can`t see any true changes in terms of the bare bones. I mean, they wanted Mark P. back apparently because god knows this show didn`t overuse him already a hundred years ago.

Honestly, one of the primary changes that could be/should be made is cutting down characters, because COVID shooting is a numbers game. And sure, my fantasy was that they'd decide to cut Lucille because maybe he wasn't really all that necessary.

However, the truth is Singer's wife loves Luci/Pellegrino/both, he's her fav, and that's why he keeps coming back. Got nothing to do with necessity to the storyline or universe, just personal preference. Still, can't blame me for hoping.

[Casseiopeia]

6 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Honestly, one of the primary changes that could be/should be made is cutting down characters, because COVID shooting is a numbers game. And sure, my fantasy was that they'd decide to cut Lucille because maybe he wasn't really all that necessary.

However, the truth is Singer's wife loves Luci/Pellegrino/both, he's her fav, and that's why he keeps coming back. Got nothing to do with necessity to the storyline or universe, just personal preference. Still, can't blame me for hoping.

Your post is both hopeful and disappointing.  It's hard to "like" it be "sad" at the same time.  But you are right. Eugenie loves the Lucifer story line and she won't give it up. But maybe the rest of the extra cast will be cut down because of COVID.

[ukgirl71]

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Dean Winchester will forever live in my heart.

But the thrill is gone for me. It disappeared a while ago. So at least the weaning process has been easy. Thanks Dabb for being the worst showrunner of all time. I won’t be snot sobbing into my wine during the final episode... I’ll be happy that  talented Jensen is finally released. 

That’s EXACTLY how I feel, particularly for Jensen.  I’m glad Jared got a show that allows him to be at home full time, doing something he hopefully enjoys with his family and friends nearby, and I’m interested to see if Misha will follow through on his philanthropic and political leanings, but I want Jensen’s skills and diverse talent to be recognised on a bigger stage, one that will allow him to flourish.

[Icarus]

53 minutes ago, ukgirl71 said:

That’s EXACTLY how I feel, particularly for Jensen.  I’m glad Jared got a show that allows him to be at home full time, doing something he hopefully enjoys with his family and friends nearby, and I’m interested to see if Misha will follow through on his philanthropic and political leanings, but I want Jensen’s skills and diverse talent to be recognised on a bigger stage, one that will allow him to flourish.

Me too, I really was hoping we would have heard something by now, even a smidgen of news.  I am hoping he is just waiting until the end of Supernatural to say something but I would have thought something would have leaked by now if he had anything major on the cards.

[Aeryn13]

16 minutes ago, Icarus said:

Me too, I really was hoping we would have heard something by now, even a smidgen of news.  I am hoping he is just waiting until the end of Supernatural to say something but I would have thought something would have leaked by now if he had anything major on the cards.

There might have if everything had kept to its normal schedule but the entertainment industry is too out of whack right now.

[Castiels Cat]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:29 PM, DeeDee79 said:

By clinging to Mark Pellegrino Dabb continues to gleefully IMO ruin the legacy of SPN. Or should I say the legacy of Dean because Pellegrino's presence equals a Jack or Sam centric finale because Lucifer only has a connection with the two of them. Quite a coincidence (not) that they're Dabb's favorites. From what I've read I no longer have an interest in the finale especially since I haven't enjoyed what I've seen of season 15 ( or 14). I'm going to check in to see the thoughts of my fellow Dean girls before I watch but for the most part I'm just waiting for Jensen's next project.

Well now... Lucy may have an axe to grind with Dean... they were grudge matching in 13 and Dean killed him in an epic old school wire work battle. There's a powerful and new connection there. I personally think Jack and Cas should just wander off the beaten path at this point because everything they do and say is pointless. Jack ruined Cas.

Lucifer should stay stabbed of course.

Jack should have stayed stabbed several times over.

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

One of my theories is that ep 20 is this is your life Sam Winchester and Dean is trying to help him let go and move on and Sam gets to confront all this past traumas and regrets.   There being a big fight scene right in the middle of ep 20 that took two days to film fits right in with that.

Sounds absolutely dreadful and therefore very possible.

I still think it`s unlikely that Badd will throw Jack out of the universe-saving completely and give the role solely to Sam but maybe 60:40 or something. Then he could have the Finale to be an ego-trip. 

Dean would be around. Kinda.  

Edited September 5, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Myrelle]

On 9/5/2020 at 1:19 PM, Aeryn13 said:

Sounds absolutely dreadful and therefore very possible.

I still think it`s unlikely that Badd will throw Jack out of the universe-saving completely and give the role solely to Sam but maybe 60:40 or something. Then he could have the Finale to be an ego-trip. 

Dean would be around. Kinda.  

Sadly, I'm feeling like this might be the endgame for the show especially after seeing those Dean scenes repurposed for Sam(yet again and some more) in the new shaving peoples trailer.

The setup is all there for yet another iteration of the S5 finale only with Dean letting go of his always heroic little brother once and for all this time and with Sam painted with the sole big damn hero brush in a similar to Dean role again-excepting that when Dean had the role he was painted with the suicidal and faithless brother brush again by Badd.

And Dean being relegated to the cheerleader sidekick while Sam does it all once again and some more in a big finale-the biggest this time-could not have made Jensen happy at all with it-while JP would have, as usual, loved it.

And I can even see Kripke telling Jensen that he should have expected it would end this way too-since you know it already sort of did in S5, Kripke's last season as a hands-on part of the production staff.

So yeah, sadly(So. Sadly.)the spoilers are all pointing that way to me, too.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Myrelle
Additions

[BabySpinach]

It fucking infuriates me that Dean, who has THREE direct connections to active players/unresolved mytharc threads (Amara, our Michael, his death books) may still wind up playing mere cheerleader on the sidelines. At least Sam had his Eileen romance and his stupid God wound plot, even though neither went anywhere. Dean hasn't even gotten that. 

[Myrelle]

12 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

It fucking infuriates me that Dean, who has THREE direct connections to active players/unresolved mytharc threads (Amara, our Michael, his death books) may still wind up playing mere cheerleader on the sidelines. At least Sam had his Eileen romance and his stupid God wound plot, even though neither went anywhere. Dean hasn't even gotten that. 

😡

This.

Me too. 

So much.

[ILoveReading]

This is not off to a good start.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is not off to a good start.

 

What do you mean? I only skimmed the interview. 

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

What do you mean? I only skimmed the interview. 

There is a clip in the interview.  Complete with Ms. Butters getting her little digs in a Dean about how messy he is.

Edited October 7, 2020 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

There is a clip in the interview.  Complete with Ms. Butters getting her little digs in a Dean about how messy he is.

There was this spoiler some time back about the brothers dealing with someone who is super-big on manners and Dean especially having a hard time with it. I rolled my eyes when I read that because I knew what that would entail.

Though if it was kept at the level of the clip, I could handle it. I mean, she is obviously supposed to be a very old-fashioned prim-and-proper character and I think she would have found fault with how any guy folded his underwear. The bunker being not clean enough is Sam`s issue, too. It`s not like he can`t use a duster. 

I think the actress delivered her lines more in a fussy, proper way and not mean-spirited so I think that helped.   

50/50 on Dean getting more of a final bonding moment with her in the end as I think the character will just be a one-off.      

Edited October 7, 2020 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-unity-description/205593/

Quote

ONE WAY OR ANOTHER – Dean (Jensen Ackles) hits the road with Jack (Alexander Calvert) who needs to complete a final ritual in the quest to beat Chuck (guest star Rob Benedict). A difference of opinion leaves Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Castiel (Misha Collins) behind looking for answers to questions of their own. Catriona McKenzie directed the episode written by Meredith Glynn (#1517). Original airdate 10/29/2020.

This must be where Sam and Cas are in Death's library while Dean's sent off to babysit his mother's murderer.

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-spoilers-unity-description/205593/

This must be where Sam and Cas are in Death's library while Dean's sent off to babysit his mother's murderer.

No doubt their books will be meaningful and accurate, unlike the bullshit she fed Dean.

[catrox14]

JFC, Dean can't even have that fantastic moment with Billie and the library for himself.

[Terese]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

No doubt their books will be meaningful and accurate, unlike the bullshit she fed Dean.

It was meaningful. She was trying to manipulate Dean into sealing himself away with Michael for all eternity.

57 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

JFC, Dean can't even have that fantastic moment with Billie and the library for himself.

I don't understand what you mean by "fantastic." Billie is no friend; she was manipulating Dean into destroying himself in a literal casket, awake and aware until the end of time.

[NougatJack]

Dean has already been in the library in 13.05, now it´s Sam´s time to visit, why not? 

And, why does it always have to be a competition between the two brothers?

[ILoveReading]

W

51 minutes ago, NougatJack said:

Dean has already been in the library in 13.05, now it´s Sam´s time to visit, why not? 

And, why does it always have to be a competition between the two brothers?

The show told us the death books are pointless because they change at the whim of whatever writer is penning the episode.  So there is zero reason for Sam to visit because they have no meaning.  I don't want to go into Sam vs Dean so I'll just say your first statement answers your question. 

I've always been interested in the dymamic between Dean and Death, both the character and the concept so its massively disappointing that we're going back to the death books and Dean is sent off to chauffeur/babysit his mother's murderer.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, NougatJack said:

Dean has already been in the library in 13.05, now it´s Sam´s time to visit, why not? 

And, why does it always have to be a competition between the two brothers?

BvJ

[ILoveReading]

Quote

t's only the beginning.

When we last saw Supernatural, Billie delivered Jack back to Sam, Dean, and Castiel, with a to-do list of what he'd need to complete in order to face God. One item on that list resulted in him retrieving his soul. It impacts his relationship with the guys, because for the first time, Dean really understands where he's coming from," co-showrunner Andrew Dabb says of the development. "And then as we'll find out, him having his soul back is a prerequisite for, let's just call it thi"It ings to come."

Translating from Dabbese:  Dean learns a very special less about why he was wrong to be angry at his mother's murderer?

Quote

It's all building to final confrontation between God and the Winchesters, though Dabb says not to expect a "world-shattering, God-punching-down-mountains type of fight." Referencing "Swan Song," the series' season 5 finale, Dabb says it more so falls into the category of an "incredibly emotional confrontation."

This was why covid didn't effect much.  It was just a bunch of people standing around talking anyway.   But I knew Dabb was going to give away the ending.  

[ahrtee]

Quote

Referencing "Swan Song," the series' season 5 finale, Dabb says it more so falls into the category of an "incredibly emotional confrontation."

Oddly enough, this is the only thing that gives me a little hope.  Since Dabb has spent almost his whole tenure building up Jack to be his one-and-only hero, then a literal "Swan Song" ending (which I think he might actually mean) might mean Jack jumping into the (literal or metaphorical) pit with Chuck while *both* Winchesters watch on, tears streaming.  And you know what?  I'd be fine with that.  Give him the BDH moment, as long as I never have to see him again, and the boys are left standing.  

[Bergamot]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

JFC, Dean can't even have that fantastic moment with Billie and the library for himself.

 

6 hours ago, Terese said:

I don't understand what you mean by "fantastic." Billie is no friend; she was manipulating Dean into destroying himself in a literal casket, awake and aware until the end of time.

I don't want to answer for catrox, but I agree that it was a fantastic scene. Obviously not a fantastic thing for Dean, that's not what is meant, but for the show. It was such an intense and meaningful scene. (And well-acted -- I thought Jensen was especially good.) At the risk of being tacky, I will quote my own previous thoughts from here on this.

Billie bringing Dean his death book was an amazing scene that should have been the absolute pivot point of the whole season. The reason it worked so well is that it was an idea that goes right to the heart of what Supernatural was originally about, and that's why I loved it.  It was about a human being facing off with a supernatural being (Death herself!), being confronted with an unalterable and potentially world-ending destiny, and then finding a way to deal with it, no matter what it took. Because that's what it means to be a Winchester.

Instead what you got as the eventual climax to this story in Ouroboros was two immensely powerful supernatural creatures, Michael and Jack, fighting each other with beams of glowing light energy, while the all-too-human Winchesters simply watched from the sidelines.

What was set up in this scene was completely ignored. It was like completely ignoring the fact that it was Sam's destiny to be Lucifer's vessel, and having Season 5 end with Castiel defeating Lucifer while Sam and Dean watched. What a waste. And I have no expectations that the return of Death's library will mean anything for Dean in the end, anymore than it did before.

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Bergamot

[ILoveReading]

 

 

'We get to see a show about Sam and Dean, at least for a little bit."

Was that Jared throwing shade?

 

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

 

'We get to see a show about Sam and Dean, at least for a little bit."

Was that Jared throwing shade?

 

I sincerely hope so.

ETA: I do admire Jensen's never-ending faith in the Winchesters. ♥

Also, 'Young Dean' looks more like he could play 'Young John'. He really brings JDM to mind.

Edited October 8, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Bergamot]

16 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Oddly enough, this is the only thing that gives me a little hope.  Since Dabb has spent almost his whole tenure building up Jack to be his one-and-only hero, then a literal "Swan Song" ending (which I think he might actually mean) might mean Jack jumping into the (literal or metaphorical) pit with Chuck while *both* Winchesters watch on, tears streaming.  And you know what?  I'd be fine with that.  Give him the BDH moment, as long as I never have to see him again, and the boys are left standing.  

You might have something here! At least, I can think of other ways to end it that I would dislike more!

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Translating from Dabbese:  Dean learns a very special less about why he was wrong to be angry at his mother's murderer?

Yes. Jackie-poo always needs to be handled with kids gloves, pampered and adored.

As for the ending, with Dabb trying to be coy with Jack getting his soul is a "prerequisite" for things to come, that cinges the title "Inherit the Earth" being ultra-literal. The Nougat-Sue will become the new God. Or maybe God-apprentice, depending on how the "emotional confrontation" means talking Chuck down into "redemption" or not. 

Maybe Sam will speechify and Dean will chime in with "yeah".

At least if they give the final and most important hero moment to a third-tier character who has been on the show for not even a third of it and sidelining both brothers would still be better than 5.22. In which case, I`d take it. 

Still think they (or at least one) will die in the final episode. Cas is a goner for sure. Maybe Sam, too, if the library visit is for both of them. Or maybe it is just "de-masking" the Empty in Billie-form.     

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Oddly enough, this is the only thing that gives me a little hope.  Since Dabb has spent almost his whole tenure building up Jack to be his one-and-only hero, then a literal "Swan Song" ending (which I think he might actually mean) might mean Jack jumping into the (literal or metaphorical) pit with Chuck while *both* Winchesters watch on, tears streaming.  And you know what?  I'd be fine with that.  Give him the BDH moment, as long as I never have to see him again, and the boys are left standing.  

Alas, that still sidelines the Winchesters as the heroes of the story, unless you include willingness to sacrifice a 'loved one' as heroic. But that premise requires the belief that Dean and Sam somehow 'love' Jack, which is among the more preposterous ideas foisted upon us by Badd.  And it doesn't even necessarily offer the bonus of never having to see him again, since death means nothing on Supernatural, and if they did do a movie/limited series in future, you know they'd resurrect him somehow. 😞

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Alas, that still sidelines the Winchesters as the heroes of the story, unless you include willingness to sacrifice a 'loved one' as heroic. But that premise requires the belief that Dean and Sam somehow 'love' Jack, which is among the more preposterous ideas foisted upon us by Badd.  And it doesn't even necessarily offer the bonus of never having to see him again, since death means nothing on Supernatural, and if they did do a movie/limited series in future, you know they'd resurrect him somehow. 😞

It`s also only really impactful IMO if one not only believes in this great bond of love but also has an emotional attachment to the character being "sacrificed". 

I mean, I believed (for some unfathomable reason) they still loved the horror show that was Mary from Season 12 onward and I can logically understand grieving her death. Just as I can logically understand not wanting Jack around afterwards. 

But since I don`t give a hill of beans about the saintly baby and would indeed jump in joy if you threw him in a hole (or he jumped in it), I couldn`t care less about the "emotional" fallout. 

The Vampire Diaries Finale as an episode was pretty meh but I cared that one brother lost another because I cared about their bond as well as about the brother who died individually.