S02.E02: A Manny-Splendored Thing

[PRgal]

Did I miss something?  Was Kevin "un-fired" from The Manny?

[t7686]

5 hours ago, MoonMountain said:

Yes, I totally felt Rebecca helping young Kate with her song was coming from a place of love. How exciting for her that her only daughter has an interest, and maybe even some talent, in something she is good at and has experience with too? I thought the dress thing was so sweet, and Rebecca was clearly excited that Kate was following in her footsteps, and hoping she could mentor her and help her. What could have been something that brought them closer together (and I'm sure that's what Rebecca was hoping for) ended up causing a lot of unnecessary resentment. I loved the shushing of the bar guests when Kate started to sing. So embarrassing, but 100% absolutely something my parents would have done.

It's interesting to me, having seen a bit more of the backstory between those two, that adult Kate seems to be specifically auditioning for singing gigs in bars, exactly what Rebecca did around her same age. There are so many other directions she could go in, especially in LA -- musical theater (professional or community), take classical voice lessons and join a professional choir, commercial voiceover work, church gigs, even focusing on jazz and learning a new style. I feel like by sticking to doing cover songs at the bar is too similar a trajectory to Rebecca. Kate isn't necessarily setting herself up to get over these issues anytime soon. She'll just continue to compare herself to Rebecca and blame it all on her.

And, yeah, how rude of everyone to bail on Kevin! Randall and Beth picked a totally inappropriate time to have that argument. I know Randall likes to get things off his chest, but that was a little dramatic. Kate and Toby, understood, although it would have been nice to see Kate text Kevin explaining why she had to leave, but to break a leg or something. Instead they all just ghosted the poor guy. He was probably so confused to see just his nieces and Miguel sitting there, when he arranged for them all to be in the front row. Geeze. I'm not sold on Sophie. She totally threw him under the bus reenacting his meltdown -- why would she think that was appropriate in terms of his feelings, regardless of whether or not they were on set where they had no idea who could be hanging around.

I agree with everything you said. I saw what Rebecca was doing as being super excited her daughter had the same talent she did and hoping they could be closer because of it. I think Rebecca just wanted someone who could “get” her music thing. I feel bad for her, obviously Jack is everyone’s favorite Except Randall’s and even he probably would choose both / William, and she was the one to pick up the pieces when Jack died. I also feel bad for Kevin. Wtf? Besides Kate and Toby, no one should have left that taping. For that reason, I really like Sophie. I think they have awesome chemistry and he clearly needs someone who’s just about him. I will say that present day Rebecca is... off. Strangely distant, awkward and tight lipped. The family was so close in the past and randall’s Family has a lot of that too but things get very weird when present day Rebecca comes around. 

[Crs97]

Except it is the second time Kate's ultimate complaint has nothing to do with what Rebecca said or did and just centered on her being:  (1) her talk with the boss's daughter about how she wished she had a better relationship with her own mom, but her mom is like a super model; and (2) this talk that Rebecca's existence is the real problem.  Also, the show has shown that Kate's freak-out hasn't been when her mom said something, but when she realized her mom was thinner/sang better.  Yes, her mom gave her a grapefruit (that her dad completely undermined), but by that night Rebecca realized she was wrong in how she handled things and told her they would both just try to be healthier in their choices.  Yes, she gave her constructive criticism about holding the note longer, but then took the afternoon to make her a pretty dress in her size to build her confidence.  I am tired of people expecting mothers to be perfect and crucifying them when they aren't.  Jack can say he is an alcoholic and gets the hands to face gesture.  Mom sings in the shower and is told Kate would be better off if Rebecca were dead.  I may have to give up this show.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, llewis823 said:

I agree. I understand Kate having to leave for the last minute gig. I even understand Toby leaving to support Kate. But Rebecca should have stayed for Kevin's show - his and Kate's shows were equally important but Kevin's show should have been the priority since it was the first committment she made.

Agreed.  And Randall and Beth were wrong, and so rude.  I like Beth, but I really am starting to hate the way she treats Kevin.  In the first season, we heard multiple times how much the girls loved watching The Manny, yet she acts like a family trip to filming is completely unreasonable.

I don't like Sophie, but I loved Kate's "Kevin, you're forgetting we like her more than we like you." 

I liked this episode. I felt it didn't try too hard to be a huge emotional moment.  I will say from the description, I expected the Manny scenes to be flashbacks to when Kevin first got the job, not for him to be going back to do one episode. I feel like the producer must have been forced by the network to have him back as there didn't seem to be any love lost there so he decided to humiliate him.  I did like that Kevin remembered all the staff people's names - it was a nice touch because it made him seem more down to earth.  From the first couple episodes, I'd thought Manny Kevin was probably a self-centered guy.

[doodlebug]

36 minutes ago, sigmaforce86 said:

This, This, This.............I think a lot of people who think Kate is being sensitive don't totally get it; her reactions today are ingrained in her from how she grew up.  It's hard to be a kid and have every compliment or comment be a backhanded criticism.  

'The child is father to the man' is more than just a saying.  However, we've got some insight into how Rebecca came to be who she is.  Her mother was hyper-critical of her and there was nothing subtle about it.  Rebecca undoubtedly feels she is doing better for her daughter than her mother did by her, she is far more supportive and encouraging and her 'digs' are not as sharp; but, still, there's that ingrained stuff left over from her own childhood.  It would be nice if Kate would be able to realize that her mother is the product of her own upbringing and try to understand what makes her tick.  Alas, Kate seems to be unable to think of anyone but herself these days.  I had a problematic relationship with my own mom (what girl doesn't?) and my maternal grandmother died when I was really young.  My mother always painted her relationship with her mother as idyllic, but, as I grew up, other family and friends filled me in on my grandmother's weaknesses as a parent as well as her strengths.  Lo and behold, by the time I was in my 20's, I'd figured out where my mother was coming from and that she was doing some things the way her mother did them, even things that were undoubtedly hurtful to her as a kid.  Too bad Kate can't figure that out, too.  We know she had her grandmother around for at least part of her childhood, I suspect the dynamic was there for her to see.

[Phoebe70]

I'm in the minority here, but so far Season Two just isn't working for me.  I haven't cried once in either episode.  I'm liking Kate less and less.  Beth is abrasive.  Kevin is boring.  I still like Randall, Jack and Rebecca but at this point I don't really care how Jack died.

[MsChicklet]

9 hours ago, bybrandy said:

She's trying to help in a way that is incredibly belittling to somebody who doesn't have a whole lot of confidence.

I felt bad for both Rebecca and Kate. It brought back some stuff with Rebecca we saw in Season 1 with her own mom. Kate freaking out ahead of Rebecca's and Miguel's arrival reminded me of Rebecca's nervousness about dealing with her own hypercritical mom for Thanksgiving in "Pilgrim Rick." And the way Rebecca unloaded on her mom in that phone call was similar to Kate unloading on Rebecca. Rebecca may have meant well and been nervous, but she should not have put in that "power your way through a crowd" comment in. This is established behavior with Rebecca, as sigmaforce86 pointed out -- from the "eating too many cookies" dismissal of Kate's appendicitis to having to critique Kate the day of the talent show. Rebecca probably never wanted it to happen, but she's become to Kate what her own mother was to her.

Toby was right in establishing that #TeamKate boundary with Rebecca. Too bad he has a record of being so bad at respecting Kate's boundaries.

Beth's snottiness about having to go to the taping was graceless. Just a few months ago, Kevin risked his investment and his career by leaving the play for Randall. Of course, it was probably deflected anger at Randall over the adoption and foster issues. But she didn't need to be the doodie in the swimming pool about the trip, especially with the girls being so excited. I'm glad she and Kevin had that moment in the trailer.

Poor Kevin. But Sophie's insight on how his need for love and approval is his weakness was spot-on and made me like her more. I am really interested in seeing her and Kate reconnect more.

I'm glad the show stepped back from Jack's death after the premiere. What a lot of critics miss is that the show is not about that. It's about the things like we saw tonight. Jack's death is a brushstroke in the painting, to borrow from Kevin's conversation with Tess and Annie, not the whole painting.

[MyAimIsTrue]

2 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

I'm glad the show stepped back from Jack's death after the premiere. What a lot of critics miss is that the show is not about that. It's about the things like we saw tonight. Jack's death is a brushstroke in the painting, to borrow from Kevin's conversation with Tess and Annie, not the whole painting.

I couldn't agree more.  I like the show for what it is, not for how Jack died.

[mtlchick]

8 hours ago, Artsda said:

I feel bad for him, no wonder he always felt ignored.  

All the comments like this reminded me of the great line from The Pool: "Where's Kevin? Oh yeah, he's dead."  

[laurakaye]

11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I liked that Kevin realized he had a job to do, and he couldn't just blow it off because he would be humiliated.

But didn't the diaper re-write come after Kevin recreated his meltdown on The Manny?  Sophie and Kevin thought it would be funny to recreate his "I quit!" speech in front of the writer and the crew, who were all milling around getting ready for the show.  I don't blame the writer for that re-write one bit, and IMO Kevin deserved to be humiliated.  I'm thinking that if an actor drama-queens off a hit tv show, he's putting a lot of people's jobs in jeopardy.  And then to be asked back only to act like a jackass?  I just don't feel Kevin at all.

 

11 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I thought it was a flashback to Jack’s dad, showing why he had a drinking problem, and in turn Jack later had a drinking problem.

I also thought it was Jack's dad, but I think I'm wrong.  Ironically, it was one of the few flashbacks that I found effective...a quick shot of Jack's dad, followed by a soldier jumping off a helicopter.  I keep forgetting we're watching a show in flashbacks, and that Jack could have been in Vietnam.

 

8 hours ago, pennben said:

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything about this, but your comment has clearly 'forced' me to:)  I'm not sure if it's an age thing, a completely different sort of relationship I had growing up, or an Oedipal thing, but I found it a bit creepy with young Kate cupping her father's face in her hands several times this evening.  Eeeep! And, just no.

See.......I feel like the show is taking us down a dark road here.  Was young Kate somehow abused by Jack?  And Rebecca didn't either know or do anything about it, and it was a cause of Kate's weight?  I honestly hope this is not the case, but there have been strange clues to favor that theory.

 

5 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Beth and Randall and that foster thing is just wrong.  They should have shelved that whole issue while they were supposedly there to support Kevin.  Beth trying to force Randall to fill out the papers while they're at the taping?

This is the kind of weirdness that takes me right out of the show.  They flew cross-country for a specific reason, but they can't just table it in order to watch the taping.  That makes zero sense, and IMO shows that Randall and Beth are extremely narcissistic.  And then we get to see Beth jump on Randall like a cowgirl on a bull, in front of their girls.  These two don't make sense, and I tend to eye-roll whenever they're onscreen together.

Regarding Randall, what is his deal?  He pushes Beth to adopt.  She hesitates.  He tells her she needs to "get on board" because it's happening, whether she wants another child or not.  Beth has a change of heart but wants to adopt an older child.  Randall seems okay with it, but faced with the paperwork he wants to bail.  He seems reluctant to write down that his father was an alcoholic.  But I'm actually getting a bi-polar vibe from Randall, and I think that's what he's holding back.  The whole "you're Randalling" thing?  I think that's what Beth is talking about.

EDIT: wanted to mention that on the set of The Manny, Kevin was cool with Randall taking a selfie of the two of them while Randall did that stupid "Manny say what?" tagline.  But then Miguel did the exact same thing with Kevin and Kevin very rudely brushed him off.  We still have no clue why Kevin hates Miguel, and I'm kind of getting tired of trying to figure out why.

Edited October 4, 2017 by laurakaye

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, it's in to the new season and I actually find myself liking the characters less than I did last season.  I'm not sure what it is.  I actually switched the channel for a little while last night. How about a little growth?

It seems that Kevin has the same whinings, Beth and Randall have the same theme of arguments then making up, Kate freaking out over her mom, Toby sabotaging Kate's health (beer cheese has many more calories than mustard, which is a traditional dip for pigs-in-a-blanket.  And WHY would an obese man, in the the home of a morbidly obese person prepare that kind of food?  He claimed it was for Miguel.....right.  That's what people do when they have food issues.  An actually healthy hors d'oeuvre might have worked just as well. I didn't buy his justifications.), and Jack is the saint.  The adoration from Kate, when daddy told her his secret.....seemed weird to me.  Yuck.

I just think that I've lost my amusement with the characters.  Maybe, I'll just read it about it here and that'll be enough.  I just don't think I have the patience.  Plus, despite the script lines about Kate being smaller, Kate appears very uncomfortable in her own skin. She appears to be in pain to me.   It's concerning. 

[Biggie B]

I don't have anything new to add - everyone's already made great observations.  I'll echo the sentiment that this is the most tolerable I've found Toby yet. Doesn't mean I love his character, only that in this limited instance, I was OK with what he said and did. Maybe if I'm really splitting hairs, I might've preferred that he not leave to go see Kate sing. Although she ended up doing well, Kate was clearly taken aback to see Toby and her mom walk in. But that's neither here nor there, since without their presence, we wouldn't have had the resulting "I am Team Kate" scene between Toby and Rebecca. 

Quote

I'm glad the show stepped back from Jack's death after the premiere.

Absolutely agree with this!! It was relief not to have that shoved down our throats for once. 

I liked Kevin a lot in this episode. He did what needed to be done, as per Sophie's advice and encouragement, and had a positive interaction with Beth. Right now, I feel as if he's the only sibling moving forward in his life, rather than sideways. I'm sure that will change...this is a soap opera, after all...but at least for a moment, there is one character for whom things are going fairly well. 

I am dreading the foster child arriving. It's going to be awful, and perhaps it will all end up wonderfully, but we the viewers are going to have to see a lot of bad stuff first. When Randall first mentioned adopting last season, I was dead against it and I haven't changed my opinion on that. Another poster here pointed out all that Randall has been through recently, almost none of which has he truly processed and dealt with (or if he has, I don't feel like I'm confident he's in a good place with it all). I love his character, but I'm not looking forward to this particular story arc.

I guess Kate has no job and earns no income? I'm not terribly observant - did she move in with Toby, did Toby move in with her, or did they get a new, neutral home? Wherever they are living, I guess Toby supports them both. I'd like to see Kate working while still pursuing her singing, but I guess that's not happening. 

I was not moved in any way when young Kate put her hands to Jack's face to comfort him, and found it a bit creepy. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Biggie B

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

But didn't the diaper re-write come after Kevin recreated his meltdown on The Manny?  Sophie and Kevin thought it would be funny to recreate his "I quit!" speech in front of the writer and the crew, who were all milling around getting ready for the show.  I don't blame the writer for that re-write one bit, and IMO Kevin deserved to be humiliated.

The rewrite did come after that.  And, even though it was idiotic of them to think this, they thought they were alone on the soundstage when he did that.  At least that was my take.  Kevin was truly embarrassed when the writer walked up.

 

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Did I miss something?  Was Kevin "un-fired" from The Manny?

He was just doing a guest spot. Probably they made a deal to not sue him for breach of contract if he came back so they could write him out propaerly.  but, I can't really figure out how that would work as the family already had a new manny and the episode had Kevin being the manny. 

 

17 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

And then we get to see Beth jump on Randall like a cowgirl on a bull, in front of their girls.

Beth was showing her more fun-loving side.  Possibly because people seem to be complaining that she's too uptight. But, you're making it sound like a wife jumping on her hubby for a piggy back ride is inherently wrong and will scar their children.  Not sure why it would.

[laurakaye]

7 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

I guess Kate has no job and earns no income? I'm not terribly observant - did she move in with Toby, did Toby move in with her, or did they get a new, neutral home? Wherever they are living, I guess Toby supports them both. I'd like to see Kate working while still pursuing her singing, but I guess that's not happening. 

Happy to know I'm not the only one who struggles with where people are living. :)

Are we to assume that Kate is still a personal assistant to the Jamie Gertz character?  Did she actually ever quit that job?  But it does beg the question of what the heck does she do all day except resent her mother and pretend at singing.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Happy to know I'm not the only one who struggles with where people are living. :)

Are we to assume that Kate is still a personal assistant to the Jamie Gertz character?  Did she actually ever quit that job?  But it does beg the question of what the heck does she do all day except resent her mother and pretend at singing.

I think she quit to pursue her singing career full-time.  Which is fine as long as she's taking singing lessons and has enough money.  I'm sure Kevin paid her very well and she probably didn't spend much. 

[laurakaye]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

The rewrite did come after that.  And, even though it was idiotic of them to think this, they thought they were alone on the soundstage when he did that.  At least that was my take.  Kevin was truly embarrassed when the writer walked up.

Ah...I thought I saw other people on the set at the time.  Even so, it's not like they were on a closed set.  I almost felt like Sophie was trying to sabotage Kevin by asking him to do the "I Quit" thing again.  And Kevin looking around at Sophie's reaction while he was crawling around the floor in a diaper...um, unprofessional much?  How does this guy get any gigs at all, is what I want to know?

Edited October 4, 2017 by laurakaye

[MsChicklet]

Something else that affects the Kate-Rebecca dynamic: Jack and his drinking. Kate is not only Daddy's Girl, but the child of an alcoholic. Those moments where she is basically a caregiver/defender, putting her hands on each side of his face and automatically taking his side in the fight with Rebecca without knowing anything about it, the way she seeks approval but is terrified of being judged/criticized, the way she regularly feels ashamed or scared at showing anger, whether it's at Toby or Rebecca or during the drum therapy at fat camp, were all straight out of an ACOA or Al-Anon meeting.

I'll be curious to see if Jack's alcoholism plays into Randall's concerns over bringing a child possibly affected by addiction into the family. Also, he's the only one who saw how ugly Jack could be when he was drinking when he witnessed part of the big Jack-Rebecca fight.

Edited October 4, 2017 by MsChicklet

[Cardie]

Even Rebecca's pet name for Kate, Bug, is no help for the child's self-esteem. Kate's attack on her mom is inexcusable but also inevitable.

While Jack's deathwatch was mostly absent from this episode, we did get a closeup of the American flag keychain that will be found among his effects.

[Jillybean]

56 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I also thought it was Jack's dad, but I think I'm wrong.  Ironically, it was one of the few flashbacks that I found effective...a quick shot of Jack's dad, followed by a soldier jumping off a helicopter.  I keep forgetting we're watching a show in flashbacks, and that Jack could have been in Vietnam.

In the S1 finale, when Jack is fixing the neighbor's car, she asks him how he came back from the war so nice. That was definitely Jack in the flashback.  In terms of someone's timeline question way upthread, I think he came back fairly soon before meeting Rebecca, since he is shown in that same episode to be living with his parents and having trouble finding work after his return.

I, too, am not blown away yet this season, but I have faith that this is all leading somewhere. However, my measure of the episodes is not whether they made me cry -- and I don't like that that seems to have become one of the goals of the show (at least, the goal of their social media presence). 

I agree that it is impossible to be on Team Kate. I keep waiting for her to be redeemed, but so far they don't seem to be going in that direction. In the S1 finale, she is shown gazing at a photo of Rebecca singing and declaring that's what she wants to do. So for someone so inspired by her mother, she sure does have a hard time dealing with their relationship.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Jillybean

[sadiegirl1999]

The more I think about it, the more it bothers me:

Kevin leaves the opening night of his play to support Randall.

Randall flies to LA to see Kevin's show and bails?

I think that's where my disconnect to this show is going...S1 had puzzle pieces that were somehow connected.

This season (so far) is so out in left field...esp with Randall and Beth.

I posted it earlier, but it's like the show is trying to do too much...slow your roll, show.

[Lady Calypso]

Huh. I just realized that this was Randall's second freak-out right during one of Kevin's biggest acting moments when he needed his entire family there. I mean, Randall's very anxious and obsessive about being perfect, so he can't always predict when he'll freak out, but the only two moments we see a family gathering for Kevin, Randall's the first to bail. But at least the last time he did it, it was because he was having a legit panic attack. Here, he was freaking out about something that should have been dealt with later. Sure, Beth pushed Randall to fill out that form right then and there, which caused him to freak out, but then he just up and walked out...and then just didn't return to the show. Beth, at least, went to go talk to Kevin after his taping, even if it was just to rant about Randall. 

Just now, laurakaye said:

Ah...I thought I saw other people on the set at the time.  Even so, it's not like they were on a closed set.  I almost felt like Sophie was trying to sabotage Kevin by asking him to do the "I Quit" thing again.  And Kevin looking around at Sophie's reaction while he was crawling around the floor in a diaper...um, unprofessional much?  How does this guy get any gigs at all, is what I want to know?

I don't think she was trying to sabotage Kevin at all; I think that she was just trying to tease him about his last appearance on the show and wanted to see the meltdown in action. I saw it as a playful thing. There were probably one or two people wandering around, but I don't think Sophie was trying to get Kevin into trouble. But yeah, the stupid looking at Sophie moment was a bad choice for the show to include, because it was Justin acting as Kevin acting as the Manny on camera. Kevin was still being filmed, so they should have directed that scene better. 

26 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Regarding Randall, what is his deal?  He pushes Beth to adopt.  She hesitates.  He tells her she needs to "get on board" because it's happening, whether she wants another child or not.  Beth has a change of heart but wants to adopt an older child.  Randall seems okay with it, but faced with the paperwork he wants to bail.  He seems reluctant to write down that his father was an alcoholic.  But I'm actually getting a bi-polar vibe from Randall, and I think that's what he's holding back.  The whole "you're Randalling" thing?  I think that's what Beth is talking about.

I agree. I think the whole storyline's a mess. We're missing important scenes that should be onscreen. Randall/Beth should be talking about fostering and adoption, instead of us hearing about them talking about it. Instead, they're just jumping to the drama, so there's gaps that make it hard to understand and sympathize with either Randall or Beth (Randall, more so for me). We hear Beth mention that her and Randall have talked about the pros and cons are fostering, but we don't see it. We just saw a jump from Beth telling Randall that they should foster, to the beginning scene of them already filling out paperwork for it. We're rushing into this storyline, when they probably could have stretched out this drama another couple of episodes. But it feels like they're rushing into a fostering storyline so we can get the kid on the show in the next two episodes. 

So, it really feels like they shouldn't be fostering because this is the second fight in two episodes where neither are on the same page. It's a big moment for them, and they're just rushing through it. That's why I don't like the storyline. I'm on Beth's side to an extent, but it feels like she's even pushing for something that they need to talk about, much like Randall did last episode. 

[thesupremediva1]

This whole family has an Oedipus complex. Kate and Jack have a seriously close relationship, and as we heard Kevin comment on last week, Randall was making a play for Mommy's top affections with Jack out of the house.

That leaves Kevin, all alone with no one to cling to. I don't mind Sophie being around all the time because without her (in past and present), he'd be utterly desolate! It makes a lot of sense to me that he and Kate became super close once Jack died. There was a huge void to fill and she turned to her brother for it. And Kevin surely welcomed it after so many years of feeling like the "outsider."

I think Kevin is my favorite character. He's so much more than he appears on the surface and he has shown real growth in the past year in his actions. Kate, Randall, and Rebecca talk a great game but they seem pretty static in terms of behavior. 

Beth going off on Randall for "Randalling out" was hilarious. I've had my name used as a verb plenty of times due my anxiety-riddled, overly analytic tendencies. 

Young, clean-shaven Milo is super hot. He's hot even as an older man, but I almost forget how truly beautiful he is and he takes me breath away when that shows up on screen.

Kate said some awful things to hear mother, but maybe that was the only way she could get Rebecca to actually hear her. I have a feeling Kate's been trying to tell her nicely for years, and Rebecca isn't getting the message, and keeps doing and saying the same things that upset Kate. Loved Toby's "Team Kate" speech. Even if we are not Team Kate, he should be - that's unconditional love. She better never screw that up. 

[gfball]

My take on last night episode is

*Kate was rude and TOO sensitive to her mom.  Yes Rebecca had a back handed compliment, but Kate never let up. 

*I think maybe  Rebecca is/was a little jealous of Kate, for her close relationship with Jack.  And yes she (Rebecca)  could have been a strong component in Kate's weight and self esteem.  

*Maybe Jacks death didn't have anything to do with the house fire. 

* The helicopter scene I think just confirmed that Jack is the bomb.  He's every women's man, every kids perfect dad, and every man's hero. 

*I don't like, and never have liked Mandy Moore as this mom.  She isn't very maternal to me.  She loves Randall the best, but still has a strong, look down her nose, attitude. 

* I think the adoption that Beth and Randall are doing is a stretch that isn't gonna be very popular with the audience.  

*I love this show! ❤️

[OtterMommy]

8 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

Kate officially lost me tonight.  She was downright cruel to Rebecca.  Yes, Rebecca made a comment about controlling the crowd but that doesn't justify Kate's abrasiveness towards her mother. Resenting your mother's existence because she had the nerve to love, support, and dedicate her entire life to you must be so tough.  I bet Randall's foster kid would love that mother.

That's where I am.  I'm definitely not "team Kate" or "team Rebecca."  Rebecca was not blameless...we've seen her being hard on Kate as a kid and I do agree with Kate that she had, at times, been trying to live vicariously through her.  Also, it was clear that Kate did not want Rebecca to come and hear her sing (and, honestly, Rebecca really should have been there for Kevin, who had invited her to fly across the country to see him) her comment about Kate someday learning to power through after her set was uncalled for.

All that being said, none of it excuses Kate's behavior.  I completely understand Kate's frustration, but that doesn't mean she was waaaay out of line in the way she treated her mother, from before her mother even showed up.  The line that did for me was that she resented Rebecca because she existed.  Unfortunately, Kate, there are billions of people in the world and not all are going to be 100% supportive of you.  

I said above that Kate needs therapy and I stand by that.  I also said that I don't want to watch that therapy--because not only would it be boring for the viewer, but it would take forever.  Therapy is not a quick fix.  On one hand I have to commend a show that created such a messed up character.  On the other hand, I don't know how they are going to clean up that mess in a way that makes for good television.

[Georgia]

I hate how they're doing the foster kid storyline. I'm a CASA volunteer, so I've worked with foster kids. One thing that is so important in foster placements - don't interrupt the birth order. The foster child should always be the youngest child in the home. Randall is 100% correct in his realization of how hard it will be. Older kids who have been in the system generally have dealt with years of trauma. Randall has recently lost a parent, Beth's mother is sick, and Randall is still learning to manage his anxiety - this is not the time for them to foster. The process is also much, much longer than they're portraying. In addition to the extensive background checks, they have to attend classes. It is realistic that they'd get a child placed with them almost immediately after getting certified, though, because there's such a shortage of foster homes.

 

I got where Kate was coming from with Rebecca. My dad is like that. He can't help himself. I was a dancer and he had notes for me after every performance, even when my instructors did not. My youngest brother didn't tell him when he made the football team, because he didn't want him at games.  I intellectually understood that it was coming from a place of love, but it never stopped bothering me. Performing is so emotionally taxing that you're really vulnerable afterwards. When one of my daughters decided to become a dancer, I read a lot about parenting elite athletes. Basically, the only thing you're ever supposed to say after a performance, game, etc. is, "I love to watch you dance (play, etc)." You're never supposed to criticize or give notes. Rebecca needs to take some responsibility for the issues in her relationship with Kate. Of course Kate needs to do so, as well, but that's obviously going to be part of her storyline.

 

I'm with everyone who thinks the face cupping thing with Jack was too much. I get that it was supposed to be sweet, but it misfired as creepy. And what a burden to place on a 16-year-old.

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't like Kate.  I find her entitled and a huge baby.  If she's not blaming Toby for doing something to make her feel a certain way then she's blaming Rebecca.  I think the only people she hasn't blamed for her emotional state at any given moment is Kevin or Randall and I'm sure their time will come.  I see a "Kevin made Kate feel like shit for being fat by always liking the slim, pretty girls" story line hitting us somewhere around season 5.

If I'm going to have to watch her constant sourpuss any time something doesn't go her way or her entire story line always being about the fact that she's fat I'm going to start fast forwarding through it.  I was overweight (I am still if we're going by fashion house standards) and the only time you get rid of the weight and all the crap that goes with it is when you stop blaming everyone else for why you're fat.  Kate is an adult now and 100% responsible for why she is the way she is.  Blaming Rebecca is childish and immature, but I'm not shocked considering this is Kate we're talking about.

Geez, even the premiere proves that she assumes people automatically take issue with her because of her weight.  She's on the defensive and pissed off before anyone has a chance to say anything nice to her.  

Fix this, show.  Because it's boring trope and you're above it.

Edited October 4, 2017 by CaughtOnTape

[ShadowFacts]

I wanted someone from The Manny's hair and makeup department to slip Rebecca a new wig.

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, OtterMommy said:

That's where I am.  I'm definitely not "team Kate" or "team Rebecca."  Rebecca was not blameless...we've seen her being hard on Kate as a kid and I do agree with Kate that she had, at times, been trying to live vicariously through her.  Also, it was clear that Kate did not want Rebecca to come and hear her sing (and, honestly, Rebecca really should have been there for Kevin, who had invited her to fly across the country to see him) her comment about Kate someday learning to power through after her set was uncalled for.

All that being said, none of it excuses Kate's behavior.  I completely understand Kate's frustration, but that doesn't mean she was waaaay out of line in the way she treated her mother, from before her mother even showed up.  The line that did for me was that she resented Rebecca because she existed.  Unfortunately, Kate, there are billions of people in the world and not all are going to be 100% supportive of you.  

I said above that Kate needs therapy and I stand by that.  I also said that I don't want to watch that therapy--because not only would it be boring for the viewer, but it would take forever.  Therapy is not a quick fix.  On one hand I have to commend a show that created such a messed up character.  On the other hand, I don't know how they are going to clean up that mess in a way that makes for good television.

I agree. I actually didn't see a problem with Rebecca's behaviour in this episode, but it doesn't mean that there haven't been problems before where Rebecca was being condescending to Kate before. I think that Kate was being cruel. Her snide remark at The Manny taping, with her apologizing right after, but then going right into more, slightly worse, snide comments after her gig that she didn't apologize for. 

I think Kate and Rebecca need to both see a therapist together. Their issues stem really deep and Rebecca doesn't seem to realize how deep.

5 minutes ago, Georgia said:

Randall is 100% correct in his realization of how hard it will be. Older kids who have been in the system generally have dealt with years of trauma. Randall has recently lost a parent, Beth's mother is sick, and Randall is still learning to manage his anxiety - this is not the time for them to foster. The process is also much, much longer than they're portraying. In addition to the extensive background checks, they have to attend classes. It is realistic that they'd get a child placed with them almost immediately after getting certified, though, because there's such a shortage of foster homes.

I agree with this. However, Randall started this whole thing by wanting to adopt and then starting the process without going into a lengthy discussion with Beth about it. Randall can point out the problems with fostering and how they're not ready, just like Beth pointed out how adopting a newborn just so Randall can follow in Jack's footsteps is a way to deal with his grief and a wrong reason for doing it. Neither of them are ready to adopt or foster. I wish it wasn't happening; I was this was leading to them deciding to at least postpone the process at a later date. I'd be fine if they decided to go for it for season 3, once things have settled down. Randall just quit his job, Beth just started back at work, and Randall just lost his birth father. This is the worst time to be making another huge life change, because it's for the wrong reasons. 

[NeverLate]

9 hours ago, maggiemae said:

The show, for the first time, could not hold my attention. Perhaps it was too disjointed?

The timelines lost me a couple of times. Please don't let this happen again.

[Jillybean]

10 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

I don't like Kate.  I find her entitled and a huge baby.  If she's not blaming Toby for doing something to make her feel a certain way then she's blaming Rebecca.  I think the only people she hasn't blamed for her emotional state at any given moment is Kevin or Randall and I'm sure their time will come.  I see a "Kevin made Kate feel like shit for being fat by always liking the slim, pretty girls" story line hitting us somewhere around season 5.

If I'm going to have to watch her constant sourpuss any time something doesn't go her way or her entire story line always being about the fact that she's fat I'm going to start fast forwarding through it.  I was overweight (I am still if we're going by fashion house standards) and the only time you get rid of the weight and all the crap that goes with it is when you stop blaming everyone else for why you're fat.  Kate is an adult now and 100% responsible for why she is the way she is.  Blaming Rebecca is childish and immature, but I'm not shocked considering this is Kate we're talking about.

Geez, even the premiere proves that she assumes people automatically take issue with her because of her weight.  She's on the defensive and pissed off before anyone has a chance to say anything nice to her.  

Fix this, show.  Because it's boring trope and you're above it.

You know, you're right. Have we ever seen Kate have a happy moment? Maybe when Toby "proposed?" She is written and portrayed as downright unlikeable because, as you said, she is such a sourpuss. I'm no fan of Toby, but I really have to wonder what he sees in her. We know it isn't her sparkling personality.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Jillybean

[SunnyBeBe]

I found Kate standing around just planning on how uncomfortable she would be when her mom arrived ridiculous.  And throwing the throw on the sofa and fussing about how it won'd lay right ....all because mom is coming to spoil things......apparently, the writers want us to really despise Rebecca or really dislike Kate's whining.  I'm not sure which.  And Kate complaining that her mom looks her over like she's sizing her for a bra...well.....if your child is morbidly obese, I can understand how you would worry over their health.  I mean, it's understandable.  IRL a parent would be super concerned over the child's health, medical complications.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[NeverLate]

9 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I wanted someone from The Manny's hair and makeup department to slip Rebecca a new wig.

Good point, and the producers make up and hair was horrible. 

[laurakaye]

22 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

All that being said, none of it excuses Kate's behavior.  I completely understand Kate's frustration, but that doesn't mean she was waaaay out of line in the way she treated her mother, from before her mother even showed up.  The line that did for me was that she resented Rebecca because she existed.  Unfortunately, Kate, there are billions of people in the world and not all are going to be 100% supportive of you.  

This.  Mother/daughter relationships are complex, and no one can hurt a mother like her daughter.  But this line seemed especially hurtful, considering that Kate has already lost her father.  I wondered if what she was actually saying was that she resented Rebecca for being alive when Jack is not.  Still, based on what we've seen so far it seems like an extreme thing for her to say, unless this show is going to take us down a much darker path.

Edited October 4, 2017 by laurakaye

[Phoebe70]

First Ron Howard guest stars.  Next week it's Sylvester Stallone....why?  The show already has great ratings.  It's like they're using Kevin's acting career as an excuse to bring in celebrities.  I hope this show isn't "jumping the shark" after only one season.

[MsChicklet]

2 minutes ago, Phoebe70 said:

First Ron Howard guest stars.  Next week it's Sylvester Stallone....why?  The show already has great ratings.  It's like they're using Kevin's acting career as an excuse to bring in celebrities.  I hope this show isn't "jumping the shark" after only one season.

From what I've read, Stallone's appearance will make more sense than Howard's. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I found Kate standing around just planning on how uncomfortable she would be when her mom arrived ridiculous.  And throwing the throw on the sofa and fussing about how it won'd lay right ....all because mom is coming to spoil things......apparently, the writers want us to really despise Rebecca or really dislike Kate's whining.  I'm not sure which.  And Kate complaining that her mom looks her over like she's sizing her for a bra...well.....if your child is morbidly obese, I can understand how you would worry over their health.  I mean, it's understandable.  IRL a parent would be super concerned over the child's health, medical complications.  

I disagree. I think what Kate was doing is pretty normal when you have a family member, but especially a mom, who either rarely visits or hasn't visited since you moved in there.  I know when my mom is coming over, I always straighten up and fuss over things because I know she notices everything.  I think they're just showing that, fair or not, Kate perceives Rebecca to be very critical of her.

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Phoebe70 said:

First Ron Howard guest stars.  Next week it's Sylvester Stallone....why?  The show already has great ratings.  It's like they're using Kevin's acting career as an excuse to bring in celebrities.  I hope this show isn't "jumping the shark" after only one season.

To be fair, they brought in celebrities last season, so it's not like it's a new thing. Alan Thicke and Seth Meyers also made their own cameos last season. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know. I get why Kate is sensitive. I’m very sensitive-I have a lot of issues that cause me to be hyper sensitive, around people I love as well but yet i would never say the things Kate did and then say “look what you made me say to you” and then tell them to say something hurtful back so they are even or something. 

I’ve learned Adult Kate annoys me. A lot. I binge watched the season before this  and I find her annoying most episodes. 

Also bugs that  the show really wants us to dislike Rebecca. What’s up with that? I feel like all of season one was Jack being perfect and Rebecca being not and the same is here, even when Jack isn’t as perfect as season 2 is saying he’s still perfect. It bugs me so much. 

[BTBAM310]

10 minutes ago, Phoebe70 said:

First Ron Howard guest stars.  Next week it's Sylvester Stallone....why?  The show already has great ratings.  It's like they're using Kevin's acting career as an excuse to bring in celebrities.  I hope this show isn't "jumping the shark" after only one season.

They're just trying to slowly get the entire cast of Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2 on the show.

[laurakaye]

5 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

From what I've read, Stallone's appearance will make more sense than Howard's. 

This line made me laugh out loud, because I firmly believe the show's writers still think we're all too busy sopping up our tears to notice the free play with storylines and random scenes.

[BTBAM310]

3 hours ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

I enjoyed Chrissy Metz's singing voice but dammit, nobody should be allowed to sing "Landslide" other than Stevie Nicks.  Nobody.

I actually like the Smashing Pumpkins version of it.

And while I like the Dixie Chicks, their version is HORRIBLE.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also bugs that  the show really wants us to dislike Rebecca. What’s up with that? I feel like all of season one was Jack being perfect and Rebecca being not and the same is here, even when Jack isn’t as perfect as season 2 is saying he’s still perfect. It bugs me so much. 

I don't know. I think this season is going to balance that out. I don't think we were ever supposed to dislike Rebecca, but the writers messed up in places.  I think Season 1 was an illusion of Jack, maybe even the way the kids remember him.  But now Season 2 has revealed he was drinking secretly from his family.  It's Rebecca who got him to come home.  Obviously we still have a lot of season left, but I think they're setting Rebecca up to be a hero this season.

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, deaja said:

I don't know. I think this season is going to balance that out. I don't think we were ever supposed to dislike Rebecca, but the writers messed up in places.  I think Season 1 was an illusion of Jack, maybe even the way the kids remember him.  But now Season 2 has revealed he was drinking secretly from his family.  It's Rebecca who got him to come home.  Obviously we still have a lot of season left, but I think they're setting Rebecca up to be a hero this season.

Yeah, I never got the feeling that we were supposed to not like Rebecca.  I think the problem is that we are supposed to idolize Jack and that makes the other characters of that generation--Rebecca and Miguel--look bad.  I have a feeling that Fogelman didn't intend for that to happen and is now trying to do some damage control, at least with Miguel.  I don't often say nice things about Fogelman, but I will say that my Miguel-annoyance is fading and I'm actually mildly interested in seeing his story.

I also agree that they are trying to set Rebecca up as a hero, but I'm not sure how that can completely happen.  Randall has made his season 1 peace with her, but we now know that Kate is in full meltdown mode over her mother.  And, really, Kevin needs to get upset about things.  In the flashbacks, he's been shown to be the forgotten kid and now, when he has all this fame, his mother and brother leave his taping.  I almost feel that Kevin has the same grounds, if not more, to have mommy issues than Kate does.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, deaja said:

I don't know. I think this season is going to balance that out. I don't think we were ever supposed to dislike Rebecca, but the writers messed up in places.  I think Season 1 was an illusion of Jack, maybe even the way the kids remember him.  But now Season 2 has revealed he was drinking secretly from his family.  It's Rebecca who got him to come home.  Obviously we still have a lot of season left, but I think they're setting Rebecca up to be a hero this season.

I agree. I've seen a vast improvement over Rebecca's treatment this season, even with just two episodes. Rebecca got Jack to come home by telling him that she wasn't just going to let him mope and live at Miguel's. And then, this episode, we saw Rebecca treating Kate like she mattered, unlike last season, where they were way too obvious about Rebecca being the worst mom to Kate. This episode showed Kate in a much more negative light than Rebecca. I mean, not that Rebecca's the perfect mom and she's made so many mistakes, especially with Kate, but we're not getting that message shoved down our throats this season. We're actually starting to see more of a balance, which I love. I always tried to defend Rebecca while also calling her out on her bad choices, but mostly because I found her character being treated like the devil while Jack was made to look like the best parent ever. Now, this season, that's shifting as we're seeing more of Jack's layers with his drinking, but also with Rebecca having good parenting moments. 

Now, will that trend continue? God, I hope so. 

[SunnyBeBe]

20 minutes ago, deaja said:

I disagree. I think what Kate was doing is pretty normal when you have a family member, but especially a mom, who either rarely visits or hasn't visited since you moved in there.  I know when my mom is coming over, I always straighten up and fuss over things because I know she notices everything.  I think they're just showing that, fair or not, Kate perceives Rebecca to be very critical of her.

Hmmm.....perhaps I have to consider it from that perspective.  But, isn't Kate 37 years old?  I just can't envision me fussing over a throw on my sofa, for fear my mom might have a problem with it.  And if she did, I'd KNOW IN MY MIND that she's the one who's messed up and not me. I'd laugh about it and tell her that I like it, so get over it.   Funny how Kate lets her push her buttons.  I just have a hard time relating to that.  And I think the writers contribute to this absurd contention by making Kate as a child abhor her mom.  In the flash backs, it appears that Kate is in pain when her mom is in her presence.  Kate was not substantially overweight back then, so I just don't get this mother hate, even back then. 

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

I'm in the minority it seems, but I loved this episode

Me too. I hate that there are so many commercials, though.

 

Quote

   See.......I feel like the show is taking us down a dark road here.  Was young Kate somehow abused by Jack?  And Rebecca didn't either know or do anything about it, and it was a cause of Kate's weight?  I honestly hope this is not the case, but there have been strange clues to favor that theory.

No, just no. What clues are you referring to? I've seen nothing to indicate that Jack abused any of his children. Though it may seem strange that a child would touch a parent's face to comfort them, I found it natural, if for no other reason than that is what Jack had been shown to do. 

 

I have come to realize that because of the structure of this show that as a viewer I have to be patient. All will be revealed at some time. 

[Blakeston]

2 hours ago, MsChicklet said:

I'm glad the show stepped back from Jack's death after the premiere. What a lot of critics miss is that the show is not about that. It's about the things like we saw tonight. Jack's death is a brushstroke in the painting, to borrow from Kevin's conversation with Tess and Annie, not the whole painting.

I don't think it's the critics of This is Us who are acting like the show is all about Jack's death. I think it's the makers of the show who act that way. If they didn't insist on teasing us and teasing us with more and more details, and hyping the clues, Jack's death wouldn't get so much focus, and people wouldn't be so annoyed by hearing about it.

7 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

And, really, Kevin needs to get upset about things.  In the flashbacks, he's been shown to be the forgotten kid and now, when he has all this fame, his mother and brother leave his taping.  I almost feel that Kevin has the same grounds, if not more, to have mommy issues than Kate does.

I think Kevin has a ton of anger about how Rebecca favored Randall (and Jack favored Kate). Unfortunately, it's caused him to direct all of his resentment at Randall, instead of directing it his parents, where it belongs. And that seems to be how people in his situation usually react in real life - by taking it out on the favored sibling, instead of confronting the parent.

[SunnyBeBe]

4 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

See.......I feel like the show is taking us down a dark road here.  Was young Kate somehow abused by Jack?  And Rebecca didn't either know or do anything about it, and it was a cause of Kate's weight?  I honestly hope this is not the case, but there have been strange clues to favor that theory.

VERY interesting idea.  I would not have thought that at ALL until that face holding of her dad last night. I found THAT creepy, awkward and not the normal parent/child affection that we have seen so far.  I DO NOT want to see that happen, so, I'll pray it was just a fluke.  Too dark for this show, imo. 

[izabella]

8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I'm sure that would go over well with Kate...and a lot of the viewers.

I've been laughing at the posts saying Toby should have suggested Kate get therapy.  Lol!  Considering how many people think Toby is pushy and has no boundaries and is forcing his ways onto Kate and isn't supportive of her, and how many people have asked why she even likes him despite her saying he's her dream guy, I can imagine the uproar if he had actually suggested she needs to go to therapy!  Toby would be skewered with suggestions that he ought to go to therapy before he has the nerve to suggest Kate should.

Edited October 4, 2017 by izabella

[izabella]

37 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Hmmm.....perhaps I have to consider it from that perspective.  But, isn't Kate 37 years old?  I just can't envision me fussing over a throw on my sofa, for fear my mom might have a problem with it.  And if she did, I'd KNOW IN MY MIND that she's the one who's messed up and not me. I'd laugh about it and tell her that I like it, so get over it.   Funny how Kate lets her push her buttons.  I just have a hard time relating to that.  And I think the writers contribute to this absurd contention by making Kate as a child abhor her mom.  In the flash backs, it appears that Kate is in pain when her mom is in her presence.  Kate was not substantially overweight back then, so I just don't get this mother hate, even back then. 

Kate may not have been substantially overweight as a teen, but teen girls are hypersenstive to ANY weight issues.  I was always about 5-10 pounds overweight as a teen, and can vouch that it does a number on your self-esteem anyway.  We saw the note Kate got at the pool...that's probably not the only thing that she experienced that made her very conscious of being even a little overweight.  Having mom giving you grapefruit while the slim boys get sugared cereal just drives the point home.  Right or wrong, I can see teen Kate resenting slim mom, and feeling that it was so unfair that mom who never had to worry about her weight is slimmer than Kate who always worries about her weight, AND it seems like mom always has some criticism along with her praise.

Edited October 4, 2017 by izabella