S02.E04: The Sins of the Father

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

The royal court celebrates the birth of the Queen's second child, but Victoria alone is unhappy as she struggles to bond with her newborn son. A crisis compels Albert to return to Coburg, separating the couple for the first time since their wedding. Skerrett makes a disastrous mistake, while Drummond's relationship with Lord Alfred comes under threat.

Important Note:

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Thanks.

[Zella]

I missed more of this episode due to storm warnings. I have no idea what happened when I assume Victoria went on her first official visit and I also missed the scene where Skerrett is fired. 

I always enjoy any episode that has a lot of Ernst and Albert hanging out together because the show does a good job of capturing a close sibling relationship, so I liked that aspect of this episode.  I also had a good laugh at Ernst's efforts to make nice with the "thistle." I thought the reveal about Uncle Leopold was stupid and came out of nowhere, though.  I had been planning on rewatching the whole series after this one wrapped up, just because I like doing that. I'll have to keep an eye out to see if they ever foreshadowed this plot twist in season 1. 

[elle]

All righty, when Paget said "we can't always be with the one you love" who else immediately thought "love the one you're with"?

Can anyone tell me what kind of dog Islay is?

11 minutes ago, Zella said:

I missed more of this episode due to storm warnings. I have no idea what happened when I assume Victoria went on her first official visit and I also missed the scene where Skerrett is fired. 

I always enjoy any episode that has a lot of Ernst and Albert hanging out together because the show does a good job of capturing a close sibling relationship, so I liked that aspect of this episode.  I also had a good laugh at Ernst's efforts to make nice with the "thistle." I thought the reveal about Uncle Leopold was stupid and came out of nowhere, though.  I had been planning on rewatching the whole series after this one wrapped up, just because I like doing that. I'll have to keep an eye out to see if they ever foreshadowed this plot twist in season 1. 

I do hope you are somewhere where you can be safe, Zella!

A quick sum up: Victoria went to visit the injured men and is overcome with emotion, Peel ushers her away quickly.  At the palace, the Duchess tells the Queen that her display of emotion was appropriate and tells her that she understands what Victoria is feeling after the birth of her son, that she too experienced this after the birth of her daughter.  She then goes on to say she knew how hard it was for Victoria to go out but that the next time will be easier, that each day will get a little better.

Mr. F is the prime suspect of who told the press about the boy Jones, so Skeritt confesses all to the Queen and Lehzen, explaining about her cousin the real Emily Skeritt.  Victoria is upset and disappointed to have to lose Skeritt.  While she would be willing to keep her, she knew that Albert would not and fires Skeritt.  (did you see how that plays out later?)

I commented on that particular plot twist in the history thread, but I do not believe that it was foreshadowed.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, elle said:

All righty, when Paget said "we can't always be with the one you love" who else immediately thought "love the one you're with"?

Can anyone tell me what kind of dog Islay is?

I do hope you are somewhere where you can be safe, Zella!

A quick sum up: Victoria went to visit the injured men and is overcome with emotion, Peel ushers her away quickly.  At the palace, the Duchess tells the Queen that her display of emotion was appropriate and tells her that she understands what Victoria is feeling after the birth of her son, that she too experienced this after the birth of her daughter.  She then goes on to say she knew how hard it was for Victoria to go out but that the next time will be easier, that each day will get a little better.

Mr. F is the prime suspect of who told the press about the boy Jones, so Skeritt confesses all to the Queen and Lehzen, explaining about her cousin the real Emily Skeritt.  Victoria is upset and disappointed to have to lose Skeritt.  While she would be willing to keep her, she knew that Albert would not and fires Skeritt.  (did you see how that plays out later?)

I commented on that particular plot twist in the history thread, but I do not believe that it was foreshadowed.

Thanks so much! I appreciate it! It was just thunder storms where I live, but there were tornado warnings to the north and to the south. Thanks so much for the recaps! I was especially confounded by the first scene since it was obvious something had happened, but it was never quite clear what.  I think the only thing I missed with the servants must have been Victoria firing her. I was wondering why Albert intervening would make a difference.  I'm hoping I can watch this episode either on Amazon or PBS later this week without any weather interruptions. 

[elle]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'm hoping I can watch this episode either on Amazon or PBS later this week without any weather interruptions. 

Hoping for you!

I was surprised that our PBS ran the last two episodes before the new ones today and that we got TWO episodes in a row again!  Does anyone know if that is going to be a regular feature?

eta: Thanks, Driad, great link! After looking at the pictures,  I see that the real Islay was a Skye Terrier.  The one on the show appears to be a West Highland White Terrier.

Edited January 22, 2018 by elle

[Driad]

4 minutes ago, elle said:

Can anyone tell me what kind of dog Islay is?

According to Wikipedia  Islay was a Skye terrier.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, elle said:

Hoping for you!

I was surprised that our PBS ran the last two episodes before the new ones today and that we got TWO episodes in a row again!  Does anyone know if that is going to be a regular feature?

That surprised me too. Did they combine episodes like this when it initially aired? I first watched the show on DVD last summer, so I watched each episode individually. I don't offhand remember other British series I watched on PBS combining all their episodes together like this. It seems like it is more common to combine the first 2 or last 2 into 1 episode and then do 1 episode a week otherwise. 

[elle]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

That surprised me too. Did they combine episodes like this when it initially aired? I first watched the show on DVD last summer, so I watched each episode individually. I don't offhand remember other British series I watched on PBS combining all their episodes together like this. It seems like it is more common to combine the first 2 or last 2 into 1 episode and then do 1 episode a week otherwise. 

No, last season they did not combine episodes after the initial two nor did the air the previous week's episode before the new one.  Nice treat tonight!

[CousinAmy]

The next 5 weeks are singles, including the season finale, Episode 7, which is 90 minutes.

Edited January 22, 2018 by CousinAmy

[Zella]

Ah okay thank you! I was starting to think they were going to burn through the whole series in about a month. 

[elle]

1 minute ago, CousinAmy said:

The next 5 weeks are singles, including the season finale, Episode 7.

Thank you, CousinAmy!

[twoods]

I'm also wondering why it's two episodes at a time. I love this show, but shouldn't PBS be milking this show with one episode per week since it gets good ratings? It's also hard to watch both episodes when I want to go to bed early (but I want to watch both because this show is addicting).

I loved how Victoria and Albert were both there for eachother when they needed guidance. Their bed scenes are some of my favorites.

[CousinAmy]

21 minutes ago, elle said:

Hoping for you!

I was surprised that our PBS ran the last two episodes before the new ones today and that we got TWO episodes in a row again!  Does anyone know if that is going to be a regular feature?

 

8 minutes ago, twoods said:

I'm also wondering why it's two episodes at a time. I love this show, but shouldn't PBS be milking this show with one episode per week since it gets good ratings? It's also hard to watch both episodes when I want to go to bed early (but I want to watch both because this show is addicting).

I loved how Victoria and Albert were both there for eachother when they needed guidance. Their bed scenes are some of my favorites.

There a new series starting April 8. Unforgotten. I guess they have a surplus of masterpieces to present.

[voiceover]

As usual, Ernst knocked it out of the park.  That quiet moment at his father's casket; the "Strike one! Two! Three! Yer out!!" courtship with Lady Sucked-a-Lemon; and every scene with his little brother.

I wonder if the actors are friends IRL; they certainly work well off each other as siblings.  

I was grateful for Albert's drunk moments.  Appropriate enough behavior for the death of a parent (I'm glad he left Victoria behind), and I love seeing him unbend.  His frank joy in the reunion with his dog and the new puppy was a welcome light in the gloom of the episode's theme. 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, voiceover said:

As usual, Ernst knocked it out of the park.  That quiet moment at his father's casket; the "Strike one! Two! Three! Yer out!!" courtship with Lady Sucked-a-Lemon; and every scene with his little brother.

I wonder if the actors are friends IRL; they certainly work well off each other as siblings.  

I wasn't familiar with David Oakes before watching this show, though I realized in hindsight that I had seen him in an episode of Endeavour. But I think he's one of the best actors on the show and his portrayal of Ernst is definitely one of the highlights.  

[twoods]

Ernst is pretty great. His reaction to the uptight princess was hilarious. I love his scenes with Albert. 

Poor Victoria. I'm sure postpartum depression wasn't well documented back then, and to see her so sad and aloof without anyone realizing why was heartbreaking. I'm glad the Dutchess was there to help her.

Drummond is freaking hot. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by twoods

[magdalene]

Leopold is a piece of work - what a way to comfort his "nephew"...

[CousinAmy]

52 minutes ago, twoods said:

Ernst is pretty great. His reaction to the uptight princess was hilarious. I love his scenes with Albert. 

Poor Victoria. I'm sure postpartum depression wasn't well documented back then, and to see her so sad and aloof without anyone realizing why was heartbreaking. I'm glad the Dutchess was there to help her.

Drummond is freaking hot. 

I don't know who Drummond and the man he's attracted to are. Have they been there the whole time?

[PRgal]

8 hours ago, twoods said:

Ernst is pretty great. His reaction to the uptight princess was hilarious. I love his scenes with Albert. 

Poor Victoria. I'm sure postpartum depression wasn't well documented back then, and to see her so sad and aloof without anyone realizing why was heartbreaking. I'm glad the Dutchess was there to help her.

Drummond is freaking hot. 

That sadness she had when she was visiting the explosion victims was not just her showing sympathy towards explosion victims and their families, but postpartum.  I think it was MORE postpartum than sympathy if I can say that.  Sadly, if my parents saw that episode (my dad in particular), they'd say that it's just a modern perspective on things - and that postpartum didn't "exist" back then.

[Misslindsey]

Quote

The next 5 weeks are singles, including the season finale, Episode 7, which is 90 minutes.

Is this the Christmas episode? I believe the UK had a Victoria Christmas episode this season. I was wondering if the US is getting that.

[vibeology]

9 hours ago, twoods said:

Poor Victoria. I'm sure postpartum depression wasn't well documented back then, and to see her so sad and aloof without anyone realizing why was heartbreaking. I'm glad the Dutchess was there to help her.

I wasn't a big fan of aging up the Dutchess (though Diana Rigg is marvelous in the role) but it really worked here. She was a steady, experienced voice that was able to fill the role her mother wouldn't. It was really moving to see Victoria realize that she had this ally even if they weren't the sort to see eye to eye on other things.

[humbleopinion]

Agreed, Diana Rigg has given this production the gravitas it needs.

Plus she brings in the GoT fans....

Hello Drummond, Leo Suter...those looks between you and Lord Alfred, Jordan Waller are simmering as Victorian glances can be....

[kwnyc]

Quote

I wasn't a big fan of aging up the Dutchess (though Diana Rigg is marvelous in the role) but it really worked here. 

Yeah, Victoria's mom continues to get her digs in at her daughter, by implying that SHE was a great mom who loved her child instantly (and presumably the other children she had with her first husband?)

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't know who Drummond and the man he's attracted to are. Have they been there the whole time?

Drummond is Robert Peel's private secretary. He was introduced to us in the Season 2 premier. He is probably a fictional character.  Lord Alfred was a real person, he is Chief Equerry and Clerk Marshal to the Queen. He was introduced last season and I believe he was at one time considered as a possible candidate to be Victoria's husband (maybe only in-show) as he is of noble birth. 

So I take it that Uncle Leopold was suggesting that he is actually Albert's biological father? There's no historical evidence of that either.

I did like the nice little scene between the Duchess and Victoria about her postpartum depression. I'm sure most people didn't even know that was a thing back then.

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So I take it that Uncle Leopold was suggesting that he is actually Albert's biological father? There's no historical evidence of that either.

That is a head scratcher.  Why would he even do that to Albert?  He clearly didn't know for sure he was the father so why even bring it up?  Why be so cruel?  He had to know that Albert would freak out.

[iMonrey]

I'm guessing the show sees Leopold as a father figure to both Victoria and Albert - he seemed to be far more instrumental in getting them together than Albert's father was. Heck we only saw Ernst I once before this season and now he's dead. Meanwhile they've got a top-name actor in the role of Leopold so I can see them wanting to increase his importance but fudging with history to this extent is pretty sketchy.

[CousinAmy]

6 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

Is this the Christmas episode? I believe the UK had a Victoria Christmas episode this season. I was wondering if the US is getting that.

Yes, the finale is a Christmas episode. They seem to do this with all their "family" dramas.

I am sure Victoria had post-partum depression, but there were also other factors. Each time she got pregnant, she was sidelined for months at a time - before the birth, and after, her power and influence was diminished. Now that there's a healthy little prince, it would be nice if her family was complete. But instead she goes through this over and over. 

[kassygreene]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Drummond is Robert Peel's private secretary. He was introduced to us in the Season 2 premier. He is probably a fictional character.  Lord Alfred was a real person, he is Chief Equerry and Clerk Marshal to the Queen. He was introduced last season and I believe he was at one time considered as a possible candidate to be Victoria's husband (maybe only in-show) as he is of noble birth. 

So I take it that Uncle Leopold was suggesting that he is actually Albert's biological father? There's no historical evidence of that either.

I did like the nice little scene between the Duchess and Victoria about her postpartum depression. I'm sure most people didn't even know that was a thing back then.

Drummond really existed, really was Peel's private secretary, and really was a decade or two older than he is being portrayed.  Paget really existed, was also somewhat older, and came to Court later than Drummond's actual time in government.  And the Duchess really existed, was MUCH younger than she is being portrayed, and became a good friend to the Queen.

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

That is a head scratcher.  Why would he even do that to Albert?  He clearly didn't know for sure he was the father so why even bring it up?  Why be so cruel?  He had to know that Albert would freak out.

As far as I can remember, Leopold was never a rumored contender.   Albert's mother did apparently either have affairs or suffered the consequences of being a wife who left her brutish husband and therefore had her history written by him.  One of her rumored lovers was rumored to be Albert's father.

Daisy Goodwin hasn't cared much about historical accuracy (this was well established in the first season), so there is no reason to expect her to start.

1 hour ago, CousinAmy said:

Yes, the finale is a Christmas episode. They seem to do this with all their "family" dramas.

I am sure Victoria had post-partum depression, but there were also other factors. Each time she got pregnant, she was sidelined for months at a time - before the birth, and after, her power and influence was diminished. Now that there's a healthy little prince, it would be nice if her family was complete. But instead she goes through this over and over. 

From the impressions I've formed of Victoria over many years of reading stuff, I think that the times she got to be a "working woman" were greatly enjoyed (no matter how much she whined), while the times when she was an ordinary woman (i.e. pregnant) were not enjoyed and she was always eager to get back to work.  Also, for such a tiny thing, nine pregnancies in 17 (?) years is a lot to deal with.  I read a book sometime in the last year covering the period of her death, and how in the post mortem her doctor of many years standing was able, for the very first time, to do an actual physical examination of her body.  Among other things, she had a prolapsed uterus.  If that dates from her last childbirth (more than forty years earlier), OUCH!

[meep.meep]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

I did like the nice little scene between the Duchess and Victoria about her postpartum depression. I'm sure most people didn't even know that was a thing back then.

With so many more pregnancies than today, I'm sure they noticed.  There just wasn't much sympathy in a society that proposed the stiff upper lip as a solution to everything.  What they really needed was birth control.

[tennisgurl]

Ernst has really become one of my favorite supporting characters. He was hilarious dealing with the prissy princess (she isn't a women, she`s a thistle!), and quite moving dealing with his dead father and his brother. He and Albert have great brotherly chemistry, and I really love their scenes. 

The scene where Albert drunkenly started yelling at his asshole "uncle" was really sad, but it was interesting to see him so out of it and emotional. Normally Albert is pretty calm and collected, so seeing him have such an outburst was a very humanizing moment, especially with so much going on for him. 

Poor Victoria. Its likely that there was some postpartum depression there, combined with her other relatively recent losses, and her general dislike of being pregnant, or the time after her pregnancy. She likes doing things, and people expect her not to do much during those times. It was nice seeing The Duchess looking out for and relating to her, especially considering The Duchesses role is usually "The Official Royal Killjoy" or some such thing. So happy that Victoria got a super adorable new puppy! 

I love how both Victoria and Albert are such dog people. Its quite adorable. 

[chitowngirl]

Was there any explanation why Victoria’s mother didn’t go with Albert to the funeral?

[Zella]

15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Ernst has really become one of my favorite supporting characters. He was hilarious dealing with the prissy princess (she isn't a women, she`s a thistle!), and quite moving dealing with his dead father and his brother. He and Albert have great brotherly chemistry, and I really love their scenes.  

The scenes between Albert and Ernst were one of the only reasons I initially warmed up to Albert in the first season. Albert's still not a favorite of mine, per se, though I don't mind him anymore, but I feel like he has more of a personality when he's with his brother. It seems like it's the only time he can be himself and be vulnerable. I don't doubt that he loves Victoria deeply, but I still think he's a lot more comfortable actually hanging out with his brother. I honestly cannot see him getting drunk around his wife ever. 

[LittleIggy]

That puppy! Squee! ?

Ernst and Albert’s dad died with his boots on, to borrow a phrase.

[LittleIggy]

On 1/21/2018 at 11:58 PM, Driad said:

According to Wikipedia  Islay was a Skye terrier.

The puppy playing Islay looks more like a Westie. The dog playing Eos is clearly not a Greyhound.

Edited January 23, 2018 by LittleIggy

[Notwisconsin]

15 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Was there any explanation why Victoria’s mother didn’t go with Albert to the funeral?

Of course not. Why should there be? In real life, she probably did.

[LilWharveyGal]

"I feel like I have elves around my person."

I was laughing so hard I almost missed the thistle line.

[CousinAmy]

1 hour ago, Notwisconsin said:

Of course not. Why should there be? In real life, she probably did.

I should know this, but I still have trouble untangling these relationships: why would she?

[iMonrey]

Quote

Was there any explanation why Victoria’s mother didn’t go with Albert to the funeral?

No, I wondered about that too. She was his sister after all.

Quote

I should know this, but I still have trouble untangling these relationships: why would she?

Albert's father (Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha) and Victoria's mother (The Duchess of Kent) are brother and sister. Leopold is also her and Ernst's brother. So Albert and Victoria are first cousins. That wouldn't change even if it were true that Leopold was Albert's real father, they'd just be switching out one brother with another.

Edited January 23, 2018 by iMonrey

[humbleopinion]

Albert and Ernst II are brothers from the same mother....same father... well maybe not... the show muddied the waters...

She may have attended the funeral...the show decided not to have her go...remember it is a scripted show with lots of events fictionalized....

[meep.meep]

26 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

No, I wondered about that too. She was his sister after all.

Alfred's father (Ernst I of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha) and Victoria's mother (The Duchess of Kent) are brother and sister. Leopold is also her and Ernst's brother. So Albert and Victoria are first cousins. That wouldn't change even if it were true that Leopold was Albert's real father, they'd just be switching out one brother with another.

So close!  "Albert's father"

It's just a sea of incestuous Germans with similar names roaming Europe, procreating with one another, and spreading hemophilia throughout their many lands.  I can't keep them straight.

[iMonrey]

Thanks, corrected it. Yeah . . . British nobility is so horribly inbred its a wonder it has managed to survive.

[Haleth]

On January 22, 2018 at 0:46 AM, Zella said:

I wasn't familiar with David Oakes before watching this show, though I realized in hindsight that I had seen him in an episode of Endeavour. But I think he's one of the best actors on the show and his portrayal of Ernst is definitely one of the highlights.  

He usually plays the mustache twirling villain in shows so it's refreshing to see him be a nice guy.  Thistle.  Ha!

Loved that the duchess was actually helpful with her words about depression and it getting easier.  Up till now she's been played for laughs with her rigidity and decorum.

Can the anvils for Drummond and Alfred be any heavier?

I didn't care for the Leopold reveal for the drama(!).  

[atlantaloves]

I thought the two episodes we just received  on PBS were boring, except for THE NEW DOGGIE.....but but but, I adore this series, it will, and shall perk up.....as she will.  Otherwise, WE WILL NOT BE AMUSED.  She was the Goddess of all Things.....

[Kohola3]

19 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

The puppy playing Islay looks more like a Westie.

I don't think so.  Westies have prick ears.

I don't understand why Mrs. Skerrett was still around when Albert got back.  If a servant got sacked back then, they were pretty much tossed out on the spot, especially if they had committed an indiscretion of that type.

[atlantaloves]

I don't care, that PUPPY WAS EVERYTHING.....and yes they pee on stuff, and yes they are always precious when they do, to a certain point.  I am just so happy she got a pup....thought it would be a corgie? It is a tradition now. Oh that Dash....nothing like a  King Cav.   THE BEST.  That's old school doggie love with The Crown.  And honey this is coming from a total shih Tzu woman from Atlanta, but I give it up for the King Cav.  yum yum. I do love a royal dog. 

[humbleopinion]

Why was Mrs. Skerrett still around after getting dismissed for lying who she was and being the source of the gossip sold to the papers?

So Albert could give her a second chance...clunky plot glitch....

The scripts of Victoria do not have the smoothness or ease of Downtown Abbey or The Crown.....

[atlantaloves]

Hey man, Miss Skerrett gave good wardrobe. 

[kassygreene]

7 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

Of course not. Why should there be? In real life, she probably did.

The show is deceptive as I don't recall the Duchess of Kent living anywhere except England after she was widowed.  She probably did spend chunks of time visiting her older children (she was a widow with two children when the Duke of Kent married her, which gave him better odds of having a child).  But as I recall middle class and upper class women did not usually attend funerals.

At any rate, this was 1844, and that was a very long trip.  Did someone say four days, England to Coburg?  By sea and carriage.  Later on in the reign, when trains became ubiquitous, not only could funerals be readily attended, but continental vacations could be easily taken.

[elle]

35 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I don't think so.  Westies have prick ears.

They prick up as they get older, or are supposed to do so according to a quick google search.

Fergus Friday - overdose of cuteness

20 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

The scripts of Victoria do not have the smoothness or ease of Downtown Abbey or The Crown.....

At least the writer here appears to like Victoria and does not show the display of hate leveled at Elizabeth in The Crown.

Edited January 24, 2018 by elle

[Moxie Cat]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

He usually plays the mustache twirling villain in shows so it's refreshing to see him be a nice guy.  Thistle.  Ha!

Yeah, it's nice to see David Oakes in a (fairly) good guy role. I previously knew him from Pillars of the Earth, Borgias, and White Queen, where he ranged from vaguely shitty to outright asshole. 

I loved how Victoria realized that both Peel and the Duchess could be helpful and kind to her if she gave them a chance. 

What happened to Emma if Lord M. died at the end of episode 3? I know visiting her sister was a ruse but she never came back. There wasn't even any comment about the passing of Lord M., was there?