All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives

[UsernameFatigue]

I love that Amy said, in essence, for Matt to STFU about how he has been waiting for two years for Amy to make a decision. Matt was checked out of the marriage (and into a relationship with Caryn) long before the divorce. So if Amy is taking longer to get to the place where Matt is, it is because he had a huge head start. 

I have two friends in similar situations. Both took a good two years just to begin to put their lives back together after their respective husbands left them. In both cases the exes moved on quickly, both with women that they had already started relationships with while married.

 So because it can't be said often enough, STFU Matt. And Caryn. 

[athousandclowns]

BusyOctober I can not stop laughing at your post, sitting here with tears in my eyes. I thank you , I must have been overdue for a hearty laugh. Couldn’t agree with you more. 

I don’t  blame Amy one  bit for taking her sweet time. Matt hid business money from her and laughed about it.  Then he has the office only he has the key to? He didn’t even know what he bought at auctions and just stored away. I think that is part of why she acts bitter.  

I’m thrilled it’s turning out so well for her relationship wise. Even if it doesn’t end in marriage like she wants better than watching caryn and Matt hold court.   It is wonderful all the things she’s able to experience and to feel for the first time. I don’t think she had the confidence to get out in the brutal dating world, not for the weak of heart. 

Making me nervous seeing Zack carry the baby down the stairs. 

Most important it’s Pumpkin season. Pump-kin. 

I guess Amy should feel lucky since Caryn is acting like she’s fond of the kids, thus the pictures of them in entryway at their Arizona love nest.  My ex married someone who wasn’t the best to my kids, plus she smoked like a chimney. Each situation is different and family get togethers are not always a possibility.  To tell you the truth I would not want a sit down and play nice with someone who screwed my spouse. Call me unreasonable. 

[missnoa]

I like how Matt just admitted that if Amy sold her part, he'd basically give up moving away and Caryn whined about it. It's always been obvious he doesn't want to move, he just wants control of the whole thing. And yeah sorry but Caryn's fake nice act wears thinner and thinner every week. I'm still rolling my eyes at her and Matt's attempt to make it seem like them talking to Amy during the pumpkin season event could kick something off when Amy didn't say a single thing and it was fine. Amy's not the one with the issue, miss "I hope they don't invite us to the wedding."

That being said, this whole "what to do with the farm" storyline is starting to irritate me. Both of them need to sh*t or get off the pot, as my dad would say. If you don't want to move or sell, just don't. If you really want the other one gone, tell them that. This back and forth is getting to the point where I like both of them less and less the longer it goes on.

Edited May 29, 2019 by missnoa

[ginger90]

I think Chris is attempting to be cordial to Matt because he is the father of Amy’s kids. She should appreciate that. 

[winsomeone]

Sometimes a husband will stray because he has been in a loveless, sexless marriage for years. Always blaming Matt doesn't cut it, when we have no idea what Amy was like to live with. Usually both sides share the blame when a marriage ends, so why is Amy being made the victim here?

[ginger90]

7 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

Sometimes a husband will stray because he has been in a loveless, sexless marriage for years. Always blaming Matt doesn't cut it, when we have no idea what Amy was like to live with. Usually both sides share the blame when a marriage ends, so why is Amy being made the victim here?

These people have been on television too long.

I feel like we all come from different places as a viewing audience. I may see it one way, having been divorced from someone who cheated. Someone else will see it all differently. Just my take on it.

[walnutqueen]

3 hours ago, winsomeone said:

Sometimes a husband will stray because he has been in a loveless, sexless marriage for years. Always blaming Matt doesn't cut it, when we have no idea what Amy was like to live with. Usually both sides share the blame when a marriage ends, so why is Amy being made the victim here?

That is not an excuse to "stray".  If the marriage is bad, end it.  THEN you are free to find your love & sex & whatever you were missing.

Matt is a low down dirty cheater, and Caryn is a treacherous bitch.  In my opinion.

[Absolom]

My marriage is/was bad is like the first claim most serial cheaters make.  It's used like a get out of jail free card.  I think the idea that divorced parents need to behave like best friends forever is rather unrealistic.  Civility is by far better for the children, but expecting anyone to get along with someone that they divorced for a reason can be carried too far.  I can more easily understand people who never want to see the ex-partner again, but handle the absolutely necessary meetings with grace and courtesy.  

I was surprised that Amy and Matt didn't settle the farm question in their divorce.  I think without the show being dependent on the farm that they would have and life in that respect would have been much easier on both on them.  Now the show has made the farm question a dubious plot point and we're all tired of it being dragged on which if Amy is to be believed is the production company's fault.

[Spike]

37 minutes ago, Absolom said:

My marriage is/was bad is like the first claim most serial cheaters make.  It's used like a get out of jail free card.  I think the idea that divorced parents need to behave like best friends forever is rather unrealistic.  Civility is by far better for the children, but expecting anyone to get along with someone that they divorced for a reason can be carried too far.  I can more easily understand people who never want to see the ex-partner again, but handle the absolutely necessary meetings with grace and courtesy.  

I was surprised that Amy and Matt didn't settle the farm question in their divorce.  I think without the show being dependent on the farm that they would have and life in that respect would have been much easier on both on them.  Now the show has made the farm question a dubious plot point and we're all tired of it being dragged on which if Amy is to be believed is the production company's fault.

Aren’t Matt and Amy producers?  I would think they have a say in what is shown and not shown.  I think the problem was that after the episodes were finished she wanted them re-edited and they said no to that.

[MargeGunderson]

12 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I’d like to invite Caryn to take the head chair at the shut your fucking pie hole table.

I love this phrase so much. I will endeavor to use it in my daily conversation as much as possible (if only in my head, I'm pretty sure I can't use it at work without consequence). 

[Absolom]

17 minutes ago, Spike said:

Aren’t Matt and Amy producers?  I would think they have a say in what is shown and not shown.

I don't know if they're listed or not, but it doesn't give them a lot of say even if they are.  Once it's filmed, I don't think they have much if any say.  Certainly this last episode was almost entirely a completely waste.  I think they could have shown what little content they had in 10 minutes or less.  

[SongbirdHollow]

What makes sense is Matt and Caryn split time between Surprise and the DW, Tori and Zach move in/buy the big house and get rid of that horrible house they bought, and Amy gets her own place. Matt can still play on the farm, Murphy can run free, Amy can visit and also still do the salsa business, and Zach & the babies can have a house designed for LPs. Jeremy and Aud can move back to hippie land. Zach and Tori need to step up if they want the farm to stay in the family. 

[funky-rat]

14 hours ago, Spike said:

“Like” is somewhat old fashioned at this point.  The current one is “literally.”

And "Per Se", even when it's not even remotely the correct phrase to use.

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

And "Per Se", even when it's not even remotely the correct phrase to use.

And spelled say lol.

[funky-rat]

16 minutes ago, Spike said:

And spelled say lol.

Just like "AWE!" when it should be "AWWW!".

[readheaded]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I don't know if they're listed or not, but it doesn't give them a lot of say even if they are.  Once it's filmed, I don't think they have much if any say.  Certainly this last episode was almost entirely a completely waste.  I think they could have shown what little content they had in 10 minutes or less.  

They're listed as Executive Producers, but I don't know what that really means.

[HighlandWarriorGrl]

1 hour ago, SongbirdHollow said:

What makes sense is Matt and Caryn split time between Surprise and the DW, Tori and Zach move in/buy the big house and get rid of that horrible house they bought, and Amy gets her own place. Matt can still play on the farm, Murphy can run free, Amy can visit and also still do the salsa business, and Zach & the babies can have a house designed for LPs. Jeremy and Aud can move back to hippie land. Zach and Tori need to step up if they want the farm to stay in the family. 

Sounds like Amy has to give up the most in that scenario, while everyone else gets the best possible outcome.  Don’t think Amy wants to be just a visitor while the rest of the family continue life on the farm, but she may surprise us all.

[kicksave]

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

That is not an excuse to "stray".  If the marriage is bad, end it.  THEN you are free to find your love & sex & whatever you were missing.

Matt is a low down dirty cheater, and Caryn is a treacherous bitch.  In my opinion.

Thank you! Matt cheated with the hired help, hoarded and hid auction purchases, spent exorbitant amounts of money on stupid purchases for the farm that never turned over any profit...i.e..pirate ship, etc...and undermined and undercut Amy continuously during the course of their marriage...especially on farm business matters. Caryn is a gold digger...plain and simple. Her fake personality and proclamations that she wants to be pleasant and cordial with Amy and Chris is phony...she and Matt proved themselves to be disingenuous and nasty with their mean spirited comments about Chris and Amy last night. Their comments about the possibility of Amy and Chris getting married and if they were invited they would have to go and then snickered, spoke volumes about Caryn's fake personality...underneath the smiley face and the "I just want Amy and I to get along" chirpiness is a cunning, back stabber. Matt is just a narcissistic asshole. Their "love story" makes me want to vomit.

[funky-rat]

7 minutes ago, kicksave said:

Thank you! Matt cheated with the hired help, hoarded and hid auction purchases, spent exorbitant amounts of money on stupid purchases for the farm that never turned over any profit...i.e..pirate ship, etc...and undermined and undercut Amy continuously during the course of their marriage...especially on farm business matters. Caryn is a gold digger...plain and simple. Her fake personality and proclamations that she wants to be pleasant and cordial with Amy and Chris is phony...she and Matt proved themselves to be disingenuous and nasty with their mean spirited comments about Chris and Amy last night. Their comments about the possibility of Amy and Chris getting married and if they were invited they would have to go and then snickered, spoke volumes about Caryn's fake personality...underneath the smiley face and the "I just want Amy and I to get along" chirpiness is a cunning, back stabber. Matt is just a narcissistic asshole. Their "love story" makes me want to vomit.

Caryn is all sunshine and roses now, because a lot of what Matt does isn't coming out of her pockets directly.  Once farm affairs are all finalized, and they settle in to their future, she likely will care when he starts pulling that stuff with her.

[kicksave]

15 hours ago, Shmoopaloop said:

YES! What a bitch was my first thought, as well. She pretends to be nice and acts as though she takes the high road all the time, then talks shit behind her back. I find her repulsive. The situation doesn't involve Caryn or Chris and I think they both need to stay out of any conversations about it. But, I do feel as though Chris approaches it without an agenda, at least.

Yes to everything you said...I would add that I was proud to see Amy hold her ground with Matt last night and not get pushed around by Matt. Matt's insistence that she consult with Chris was out of order. What chutzpah! The way he presented the idea to her was condescending. And I'm sick of seeing him and Caryn talk about their "future" and how Amy is keeping them from making their plans...whatever that means. We all know Caryn 's agenda...she wants marriage and can't wait to get her hands on that Roloff $$$.

[kicksave]

1 hour ago, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

Sounds like Amy has to give up the most in that scenario, while everyone else gets the best possible outcome.  Don’t think Amy wants to be just a visitor while the rest of the family continue life on the farm, but she may surprise us all.

Your scenario makes sense but Zach is not an ambitious person and I don't think he wants to live near Matt or work for Matt. He seems to like having a buffer zone and just coaching kiddie soccer. 

[Spike]

56 minutes ago, kicksave said:

but Zach is not an ambitious person

A polite way of saying lazy.

[missnoa]

To be frank, I don't understand why anything needs to change at all. If Matt wants to run off to Arizona full time (he doesn't, nobody buys new land in a state you intend to leave), nothing is stopping him. He already admitted that Caryn ran pumpkin season, so just hire someone to run his part of the farm and leave. Amy it seems like doesn't want anything to change anyway, so she should just tell him fuck off and see her in court if he wants to force it. It's really starting to feel like this drawn out storyline is either completely fake, Matt's attempt to get Amy's name off the farm so he can run her off, or they're both incredibly lacking in backbone and refuse to be honest about what they actually want.

[Literata]

8 hours ago, winsomeone said:

Sometimes a husband will stray because he has been in a loveless, sexless marriage for years. Always blaming Matt doesn't cut it, when we have no idea what Amy was like to live with. Usually both sides share the blame when a marriage ends, so why is Amy being made the victim here?

If your marriage is loveless and sexless, try to fix it. If you can't, extricate yourself. THEN you can begin fucking the help.

I'm divorced. We had small children at the time. Neither of us cheated, and we each remarried others a few years later. The four of us actually ARE good friends -- because neither my ex nor I violated the other's trust, or dishonored our commitment. We were ill-suited to one another and fought all the time, and realized we needed to change course. It hasn't all been sunshine and roses; we're not perfect. But because we're decent people, we handled a tough situation respectfully and with concern for one another and our kids.

I feel strongly that Amy is legally barred from discussing Matt's cheating on the show -- but as noted, she clearly wasn't barred from discussing it on a podcast. It seems very clear that Matt cheated, and that he cheated with Caryn. 

In light of that, then, I do have to admit to some confusion around the kids' behavior. Although Matt clearly stepped out on Amy, had at least two OWIs during the marriage, and behaved selfishly and irresponsibly even (especially?) when the cameras were rolling, the twins and their wives seem perfectly accepting of him, and of Caryn. Zac and Tori seem accepting of Chris as well -- but, at the risk of oversimplifying, there's nothing for them to resent Chris about. He came along after Matt and Amy parted.

The kids are harder on, and colder toward, Amy. That makes me sad for her. Was she a perfect wife? We all know she wasn't. She's got her demons -- but Matt stepped outside the marriage, thereby violating her trust. So, yes. Technically, she's the victim here.  

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Literata

[funky-rat]

2 minutes ago, Literata said:

If your marriage is loveless and sexless, try to fix it. If you can't, extricate yourself. THEN you can begin fucking the help.

I'm divorced. We had small children at the time. Neither of us cheated, and we each remarried others a few years later. The four of us actually ARE good friends -- because neither my ex nor I violated the other's trust, or dishonored our commitment. We were ill-suited to one another and fought all the time, and realized we needed to change course. It hasn't all been sunshine and roses; we're not perfect. But because we're decent people, we handled a tough situation respectfully and with concern for one another and our kids.

I feel strongly that Amy is legally barred from discussing Matt's cheating on the show -- but as noted, she clearly wasn't barred from discussing it on a podcast. It seems very clear that Matt cheated, and that he cheated with Caryn. 

In light of that, then, I do have to admit to some confusion around the kids' behavior. Although Matt clearly stepped out on Amy, had at least two OWIs during the marriage, and behaved selfishly and irresponsibly even (especially?) when the cameras were rolling, the twins and their wives seem perfectly accepting of him, and of Caryn. Zac and Tori seem accepting of Chris as well -- but, at the risk of oversimplifying, there's nothing for them to resent Chris about. He came along after Matt and Amy parted.

Was Amy a perfect wife? Heavens, no. She's got her demons -- but Matt stepped outside the marriage, thereby violating her trust. So, yes. Technically, she's the victim here.  

 

And Amy wanted to try to work it out.  Matt wanted nothing to do with it.

[kicksave]

1 hour ago, funky-rat said:

And Amy wanted to try to work it out.  Matt wanted nothing to do with it.

Of course he didn't...he already was in a full blown affair with the lovely Caryn..note my sarcasm.

[iwasish]

5 hours ago, readheaded said:

They're listed as Executive Producers, but I don't know what that really means.

A way to give them more money/ usually with no real power attached. 

[readheaded]

I just saw Caryn's Instagram and her cover quote is:  "Be kind, even when you don’t feel like it."

LOL!  Shouldn't it be, "Pretend to be kind even when you're fucking the man boss behind his wife, the woman boss's, back"?

I wonder what her new job is since she left the farm?

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Literata said:

The kids are harder on, and colder toward, Amy. That makes me sad for her. Was she a perfect wife? We all know she wasn't. She's got her demons -- but Matt stepped outside the marriage, thereby violating her trust. So, yes. Technically, she's the victim here.  

She woke them up, cooked for them, drove them to school, attended soccer games.  He was basically an absent father but spent money on buying or building them toys.  What ingrates to favor him.

19 minutes ago, readheaded said:

I just saw Caryn's Instagram and her cover quote is:  "Be kind, even when you don’t feel like it."

LOL!  Shouldn't it be, "Pretend to be kind even when you're fucking the man boss behind his wife, the woman boss's, back"?

I wonder what her new job is since she left the farm?

I doubt Matt has the stamina to fuck.  She probably gives him a hand job, with a latex glove, while watching TV.

[readheaded]

10 minutes ago, Spike said:

She woke them up, cooked for them, drove them to school, attended soccer games.  He was basically an absent father but spent money on buying or building them toys.  What ingrates to favor him.

I doubt Matt has the stamina to fuck.  She probably gives him a hand job, with a latex glove, while watching TV.

Oh God, I need eye bleach, STAT!!!  Especially after seeing the bedroom in their Arizona house last night!!!

[SongbirdHollow]

5 hours ago, HighlandWarriorGrl said:

Sounds like Amy has to give up the most in that scenario, while everyone else gets the best possible outcome.  Don’t think Amy wants to be just a visitor while the rest of the family continue life on the farm, but she may surprise us all.

Amy was concerned that if she sold the house to Matt she'd never set foot there again. With Zach there she would be welcome. The property is something they all built together so it would be a shame to lose it in one generation. They really made some memories there and it's a great legacy. Amy is forever harping on her #secondact so maybe she'd be open to this plan. Of course Zach is too lazy to run the farm but with Matt's input and hiring good staff it could work. Matt was advising Zach to keep his old unsold house as an "investment" but it seems like investing in the farm is a better idea. Amy would come out well financially if she sold to Zach so she wouldn't really be giving up so much. Get Chris to wheel them a deal and he benefits too.

[SongbirdHollow]

43 minutes ago, readheaded said:

I just saw Caryn's Instagram and her cover quote is:  "Be kind, even when you don’t feel like it."

LOL!  Shouldn't it be, "Pretend to be kind even when you're fucking the man boss behind his wife, the woman boss's, back"?

I wonder what her new job is since she left the farm?

Didn't they say she was starting an event planning business.

24 minutes ago, Spike said:

I doubt Matt has the stamina to fuck.  She probably gives him a hand job, with a latex glove, while watching TV.

I suspect you are right.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

I would think they could maybe run a successful B & B with the big house along with the barn as the event center - neither one then would have to live there - just run the thing as a complete business when they want - working farm B & B are popular in Europe 

[readheaded]

38 minutes ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

I would think they could maybe run a successful B & B with the big house along with the barn as the event center - neither one then would have to live there - just run the thing as a complete business when they want - working farm B & B are popular in Europe 

People would probably also go for baking lessons with Amy...  

1 hour ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Didn't they say she was starting an event planning business.

I suspect you are right.

Thanks; now that you say it I remember hearing that.

[ginger90]

This was prior to the most recent episode. 

Video:

[bichonblitz]

10 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Matt is a low down dirty cheater, and Caryn is a treacherous bitch.  In my opinion.

I agree. Therefore, they are perfect for each other. 

Count your blessings, Amy! Take the nice, fat buy out and get yourself off that farm. Start living your life for YOU! I hope she's not hesitating because she's waiting to see what happens with Chris. 

[missnoa]

Even if those two didn't cheat with each other, they were together extremely quickly and she used to work for them. I sincerely doubt ANYONE would be thrilled to be having to deal with their ex and the new girlfriend given that particular history. Caryn can flash that fake smile all she wants, anyone with sense knows they're a shady couple and she's not with Matt cause she loves him.

[readheaded]

5 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I agree. Therefore, they are perfect for each other. 

Count your blessings, Amy! Take the nice, fat buy out and get yourself off that farm. Start living your life for YOU! I hope she's not hesitating because she's waiting to see what happens with Chris. 

I'm not convinced that any of it's about Chris or Matt.  I think it's about what Amy envisioned for her life for 29 years vs. what's possible now that what she envisioned (being a grandma married to her kids' father) isn't.  I also think that's what she mourns and misses more than she misses Matt, himself-it's more about the idea of what she thought her life was going to be, which was tied to that big house and the farm.  Slowly, but surely, she's grieving what's lost, seeing beyond what she thought her life would be, and moving forward.  It takes time to do that, though. 

[Bunnyette]

Loved when Matt was moaning that Amy didn’t bring the “agreement” he gave her...she’s probably shredded & burnt it...

[Spike]

11 minutes ago, Bunnyette said:

Loved when Matt was moaning that Amy didn’t bring the “agreement” he gave her...she’s probably shredded & burnt it...

She said that she wanted to put it somewhere safe but then forgot where.  Most people put their important papers in just a few places.  Maybe it’s under a dirty laundry pile or a bare mattress in one of the kids’ old rooms.

[gonecrackers]

Hope Amy's not moving into that neighborhood after she let the dog pee all over their lawns. 

They like to portray Amy as weak next to Matt but I'm not buying it. I think she's stronger than him by far, in a good way.

Tori seems very concerned about how Zach's health issues are going to affect her. 

Wonder if Zach's reconsidering their stair infested house yet.

Anyone else think "hmmm" when Matt said the headboard reminded him of a brothel...

[Spike]

Caryn’s Southwestern decor looked right out of  the J.C. Penney clearance aisle.  

[Literata]

This has to be a coincidence, as the daughter is far too old ... but if you check out Caryn's Instagram, her daughter looks as though she could belong to Matt. Same exact chin, for starters.

[readheaded]

6 hours ago, Literata said:

This has to be a coincidence, as the daughter is far too old ... but if you check out Caryn's Instagram, her daughter looks as though she could belong to Matt. Same exact chin, for starters.

Maybe Caryn has a "type" and her ex resembles Matt?  I'd love to hear from him.  Apparently, they divorced at about the same time as Amy and Matt.  What a coincidence.

[ginger90]

25 minutes ago, readheaded said:

Maybe Caryn has a "type" and her ex resembles Matt?  I'd love to hear from him.  Apparently, they divorced at about the same time as Amy and Matt.  What a coincidence.

Caryn’s ex filed for divorce in 2012. I believe Matt and Amy separated in 2014? Filed in 2015?

[Absolom]

Ratings this week:  1.559 M viewers and a .33 rating.  Eighth cable show of the day.  

[Dmarie019]

I don't get what Caryn thinks Amy's indecision is keeping them from. They bought a place in Arizona and they have their own separate places.  If you're so impatient with what someone does with property you don't even own, then tell your boyfriend to sell his portion and GTFout of there! 

If I were Amy and I saw last night's episode and hadn't made a decision yet, you bet I would drag my feet for another 2 years. Matt can easily take himself out of the situation and he's not, so what does that say about him Caryn. 

[tinderbox]

15 hours ago, Bunnyette said:

Loved when Matt was moaning that Amy didn’t bring the “agreement” he gave her...she’s probably shredded & burnt it...

I couldn’t understand why he didn’t bring his copy of the agreement to the meeting whether it was a first or final draft.   Makes no sense....unless he had no copy of his own. They're either both lousy businesspeople, dumb, or the “lost agreement” scenario was part of the entire narrative of this tv season.  Pffffft.....  That said, it was completely obvious that Amy was fibbing about misplacing the agreement.  She’s a lousy actress.

Edited May 30, 2019 by tinderbox

[SunnyBeBe]

On 5/29/2019 at 6:44 AM, winsomeone said:

Sometimes a husband will stray because he has been in a loveless, sexless marriage for years. Always blaming Matt doesn't cut it, when we have no idea what Amy was like to live with. Usually both sides share the blame when a marriage ends, so why is Amy being made the victim here?

But, we did see a lot of what Amy was like to Matt during the marriage.  So, my patience with Amy is not that great. She was verbally abusive plenty on camera.  I can't imagine how bad she would have been in private.  One fault doesn't justify another, but, I do not see a pitiful Amy.  

I think that Amy's indecisiveness over how the farm will be finally divided was a good thing though, because, it's given them another couple of seasons of storyline.  That means cha ching for them and other family members.  AND, as Matt has said, if he really wanted to, he could have filed to the court for a forced sale, but, that's a pain and you lose money.  

What was the deal with Tori and her response to Zach's medical news.  I thought she was supposed to encourage him and help him see the positive side, not unload her insecurities and talk about how she's not going get along.  I mean, really....that's cold.  What's going on with her? 

Edited May 30, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[winsomeone]

I didn't mean to imply that Matt's straying was a good thing or okay. Just meant that Amy is not totally blameless in all that went on is all. How she treated him and kept a pig sty of a house and raised the boys was on TV for all of the world to see. Now suddenly she is this sweet, saintly  shy person..I don't buy it. I don't care for either of them, or Zack and Jeremy. Didn't Jacob receive quite an injury to his head from that pumpkin throwing machine? If so, I wonder how that has affected or caused what he has become today?