S01.E01: Pilot

[Drogo]

Twin brothers Vincent and Frankie Martino navigate their way through the rough-and-tumble world of 1971 Times Square. Vincent crosses paths with other midtown denizens while plotting to improve his situation. Abby gets enlisted to buy amphetamines.

[Drogo]

Anyone with access to HBO GO, HBO NOW, or HBO On Demand has access to the pilot right now, but the official series premiere is still set for September 10th. 

[formerlyfreedom]

I really, strangely enjoyed this, and want to see where this story is going. I was able to keep the dual James Franco roles from distracting me, except for one moment; the scene where Frankie comes to the bar while Vinnie is working. They did some pretty good stuff with the camera work but Frankie's reflection in the mirror bothered me. I realized later it was because it was too crisp; if it were two actors, that reflection would be a bit blurry, but it's almost like they were congratulating themselves on the whole process, look, we have seamlessly integrated him into the scene in two characters! Um, no, no you did not.

I really wasn't sure how I would feel about this show, and I can say I'm still not sure, but I enjoyed Candy's story, and getting to know some of the players. There are SOO many characters. So many pimps especially...The prostitutes seemed more developed as characters, and I liked getting to know them. I think I'm hooked, and will be back for more.

[childeroland]

Nice to see those guys from The Wire on the same show again.

[numbnut]

I really enjoyed this. I tuned in for Maggie G. and she was awesome. I liked everyone except for the girl from the Leftovers (name?). Franco didn't bother me until the twin thing. The cinematography and production values are really great; it looked so much like the 70s. The student was the only character I didn't understand. I assume all the main characters will be working together at some point?

[Drogo]

I like Franco in this, and I don't like Franco in anything. 

Darlene is so sweet and likeable and this is HBO so I fear for her future. 

[magdalene]

This is the first time I have ever liked Franco in anything.

It was very compelling. I am in.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On September 2, 2017 at 7:17 PM, Drogo said:

I like Franco in this, and I don't like Franco in anything. 

Darlene is so sweet and likeable and this is HBO so I fear for her future. 

Adored her in "Show Me A Hero" so thrilled to see her in this! BTW, is this the first Simon series that Clarke Peters has NOT been in? Can we hope for a cameo just to keep the streak going? 

[Primetimer]

Who needs a pimp when you have one of the world's first answering machines?

View the full article

[sheetmoss]

RE: The attention to detail

Haven't seen the pilot yet, but did see a still  of James Franco with a manlyl 70's full  bush.

[susannot]

Enjoyed it. James Franco was great. Maggie G's character is somewhat pathetic. In her encounter with the birthday boy, she appeared to be old enough to be his mother. I do admire the fact that she is her own businesswoman, if you can call it that, but expect that she will suffer for it.

[thuganomics85]

Double the Franco, double the fun?

Definitely enjoyed all the time I saw someone from The Wire pop up here.  Hope they keep it up.  And, yes, they better get Clarke Peters and his awesome voice here for at least one scene.

Fun seeing Zoe Kazan as Frankie's (or is it Vincent's?) wife after seeing her in The Big Sick.

Overall, I was intrigued, even if it was a bit slow, but from I what I remember from The Wire, it took a few episodes to really set in, so I think David Simon shows just have slow burns in general.  A lot of characters though, so I'm looking forward to seeing them fleshed out (err, not in that way.)  Eileen/Maggie Gyllenhall was my favorite and Darlene was nice too.  The only one that felt kind of out of place was Abby/the college student, but hopefully her story will factor in with the rest later on (and Margarita Levieva sure is one stunning woman.)

The production values were top notch.  And, hey, it's Michelle MacLaren in the director's chair!

[Quilt Fairy]

This kind of gritty, life on the streets, everybody's life sucks drama generally is not my thing, but the re-airing came on after John Oliver, so I decided to give it a try.   And I was hooked.  I'll definitely be watching from now on.

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

And, hey, it's Michelle MacLaren in the director's chair!

From Breaking Bad?  No wonder it's good.

[luna1122]

I have always liked James Franco, he's very talented and weird, so this was a must for me. And it's really good, really well done, the cast is fabulous, it looks authentic, but I do not know if I can hang with it. It's just so ugly. I can handle grit and violence generally, but I felt like I needed a Karen Silkwood shower after watching this; it's all so bleak and sordid. I admired the show, but I can't say I enjoyed a second of it. I'm sure I'll try another episode just to see if I can handle it, but I am on the fence.

I kind of wish one twin was mustache-free.

When Frankie is strutting down the street in his tight pants and pointy shoes, I swear I could hear "Stayin' Alive' playing.

The actress who plays Lori has a Jennifer Jason Leigh vibe about her.

Pimps are fucking assholes.

[jenrising]

I'm rather ambivalent about the show, but 100% in for "how many BJs for that fancy answering machine" recaps.

[numbnut]

11 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I kind of wish one twin was mustache-free.

Me too.  The cut on the head isn't enough to tell the twins apart, especially since they're not strikingly dissimilar in personality. When they first cut to the twin on the street, I thought the entire sequence was about the bar owner, not the gambler (I'm still not clear on names, even after a second viewing). The "cut on the head" trick also wasn't very helpful to differentiate present day from flashbacks in "13 Reasons Why." Also, when the same actor plays twins it can take me out of the story, as the actor usually overacts to seem like different people. For me, the only exceptions so far are Sam Rockwell in "Moon" and Jake Gyllenhaal in "Enemy" (the characters aren't twins but you get what I'm saying).

11 hours ago, luna1122 said:

When Frankie is strutting down the street in his tight pants and pointy shoes, I swear I could hear "Stayin' Alive' playing.

Yup. I'm sure that was a shout-out to the movie, which was also very character-driven IIRC.

Edited September 12, 2017 by numbnut
grammar!

[tennisgurl]

I usually like James Franco, even when he is doing his "perpetually stoned" thing, and I thought he was really good here. Granted, I am still having trouble telling the two twins apart, but hopefully I will figure it out soon. I third the desire for one of the Francos to shave their mustache, but I fear that a mustache was an actual legal requirement of New York based men in the 70s. 

Speaking of, I know that pimps did dress like that back then (with the pimp cane and the feathers in their hats), but everytime I saw those guys, I felt like I was watching that scene with the Council of Pimps from Black Dynamite. The guy who plays CC is really good. He is so likable and charming one moment, and scary as hell the next. Really, I like the whole cast as of now, and they all really fit the period. 

I love that the show looks really grimy and grim, in the cinematography and the set design, it really looks like a film of that era. I am really excited to see where the show goes next.  

[grawlix]

I guess I need to pay more attention when I watch.  I have no idea what the ratio Franco was playing Vincent to Frankie role.  I'm assuming it was all Vincent until the two met up at the bar.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

I've never really had a strong feeling about James Franco one way or the other with the exception of my eternal adoration of "Freaks and Geeks" and thinking he was perfect in that. I've respected that he seems to choose his projects without really giving AF what others say ...

But now, between Deuce (which I already love) AND the upcoming "Disaster Artist" and his involvement in getting that to screen I am totally on board with all things JF (if we had little photos for our avatars mine would be the dinosaur coloring book page where my daughter's friend turned hers into a "Wiseausaurus" screaming "You're tearing me apart, Lisa!")

[lazylou]

On August 29, 2017 at 4:14 PM, childeroland said:

Nice to see those guys from The Wire on the same show again.

I thought the same thing.  First time I have noticed D'Angelo in awhile!

[lazylou]

I too found the twins too similar.  Of course, twins generally are hard to tell apart, but something has to happen to help us out, here.  The easiest thing would be to shave one mustache.

[SoothingDave]

Twins was just done on the last season of Fargo.  One was balding on top, the other not.  

I like the setting.  Same as Vinyl last year, but with the promise maybe of a better story?

As is, it is indeed very scummy feeling.  The pimps seem like caricatures almost.  

I want to see where it goes, but there needs to be something to root for.

I'm not sure I understand Abby's decision-making at the end there.  She makes it to her Econ test on time and then... decides to blow it off to do what? Go help a married guy run a Korean bar with unitard-clad waitresses?

[MCMLXXVII]

1 hour ago, SoothingDave said:

Twins was just done on the last season of Fargo.  One was balding on top, the other not.  

I like the setting.  Same as Vinyl last year, but with the promise maybe of a better story?

Yes, I just finished Vinyl right before this started and was pleased to see another '70s NYC show relatively quickly. 

[Milburn Stone]

The show pulled me in, but made me really nervous. A world in which everyone is either predator or prey. Or in some cases both. (E.g., the college professor is the student's prey, then she becomes the cop's prey.) Jesus.

[Syndicate]

WOW! Here I am about to be the odd man out! I didn't care for this pilot much at all. For me, and I suspect for a few others, nowadays, a show just needs to dive in and show some semblance of working on getting to the point. This pilot was slow as all out to the point of boredom.  I don't think it helps that the show seems to have way too many characters. What's the plot going to evolve to with all of these people on the canvas? It looks like one of those shows with a thousand aimless subplots SLOWLY leading nowhere! All this being said, I NEVER give up on a show after its pilot. I'll give it another whirl to see what else goes.

[txhorns79]

I'm not sure what to make of this show.  It's visually interesting, and they clearly went to great lengths to recreate early 1970s New York, but I was kind of lost with all the characters and the plot.  I also felt a little grimy after watching the episode.  I'll say this, I couldn't make it through the first episode of Vinyl, so the fact I want to see where this goes is probably a good sign.        

[MamaBird]

The cut on the head reminded me of the two Gwyneth Paltrows in Sliding Doors.  In Gwyneth's case, it was just kind of a "place holder" until one of the characters cut and bleached her hair.  Maybe one of the Dueling Francos will make a similar change in appearance.  As mentioned above, shaving off the mustache would be a plus.

Edited September 14, 2017 by MamaBird

[meep.meep]

On 9/12/2017 at 8:15 AM, lazylou said:

I thought the same thing.  First time I have noticed D'Angelo in awhile!

And here I was thinking it was great that Bob's leg seems to have grown back.

I was worried about this being too much like Vinyl.  It pleasantly surprised me.

[jamblastx]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 3:05 PM, Syndicate said:

WOW! Here I am about to be the odd man out! I didn't care for this pilot much at all. For me, and I suspect for a few others, nowadays, a show just needs to dive in and show some semblance of working on getting to the point. This pilot was slow as all out to the point of boredom.  I don't think it helps that the show seems to have way too many characters. What's the plot going to evolve to with all of these people on the canvas? It looks like one of those shows with a thousand aimless subplots SLOWLY leading nowhere! All this being said, I NEVER give up on a show after its pilot. I'll give it another whirl to see what else goes.

I'll join you in that assessment....very slow and downright boring.  I do have to commend the makers of the series that they really got early 70's NY right....really looked authentic and much more so than other recent period pieces.  The cast is also top notch HOWEVER, it seems that all of these new shows that need to take place in the 70's come up with the look, the basic premise, the characters and then have NOTHING to say about them or makes the audience care one way or another about them.  HBO should have learned a lesson from last year's 70's misstep Vinyl and in The Deuce's defense, it's a little better than that so far....

[Rinaldo]

While I understand that there would be advance anticipation and interest in a new series from a team that gave us The Wire, I suspect that this may not have been the most suitable series for the "release the pilot early to build up interest" technique. Their shows were almost the inventors of the "chapters of a novel" model for episodes, wherein characters become more identifiable, story lines get moving, themes develop power as we continue from one episode to the next. I absolutely disagree about this being "slow" (not that slow is inherently bad) -- there was a ton happening. But it's hard to sort it out at this point and really take it in. That will probably happen once we have Episode 2, and 3, and onward. So I plan to watch it again once the series starts for real.

On September 12, 2017 at 11:15 AM, lazylou said:

First time I have noticed D'Angelo in awhile!

I've seen Lawrence Gilliard Jr. in roles on Elementary, Graceland, and The Good Wife. But yes, it's nice to see him as a regular on a new show. And on a different side of the law!

Edited September 14, 2017 by Rinaldo

[pasdetrois]

I liked the first episode - very gritty and realistic. I watch anything with MG - if you haven't seen it, check her out in the movie "Sherry Baby." As for Franco, I always feel like he is one step away from brilliant acting. The supporting actors are great. I remember when waitresses wore Danskin leotards in many colors here in DC.

My only hesitation is whether the twin Francos will play out like a gimmick, rather than really serving the story (and Franco's sizable ego). I lost track of and interest in the two stories.

[meep.meep]

On 9/14/2017 at 6:26 AM, Rinaldo said:

 

I've seen Lawrence Gilliard Jr. in roles on Elementary, Graceland, and The Good Wife. But yes, it's nice to see him as a regular on a new show. And on a different side of the law!

He was on The Walking Dead for two years.  Clearly in here, I've fallen in with the high fallutin' crowd.

[planet17]

I just watched the pilot and I'm hooked. I'm one of those The Wire fans that were crazy waiting for this show to premiere. And I also like James Franco.

Also I'm quite interested in the female characters. The Wire was majorly masculine, so I'm curious to see how Simons will handle them. I'm already interested in Candy, Darlene, the college girl, the prostitute hurted in the end and Vinnie's wife.

And about the twins, I really don't think it's necessary to have a big physical difference to tell them apart. I think the characters are very different from each other and Franco's acting was enough for me. At least for now.

 

On 11/09/2017 at 1:32 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Overall, I was intrigued, even if it was a bit slow, but from I what I remember from The Wire, it took a few episodes to really set in, so I think David Simon shows just have slow burns in general.  A lot of characters though, so I'm looking forward to seeing them fleshed out (err, not in that way.)  Eileen/Maggie Gyllenhall was my favorite and Darlene was nice too.  The only one that felt kind of out of place was Abby/the college student, but hopefully her story will factor in with the rest later on (and Margarita Levieva sure is one stunning woman.)

 

Well, it's David Simons, so I sure expect that those storylines will either collide or lead to something important. I don't expect loose ends.

Edited September 16, 2017 by planet17

[LisaBLingLing]

According to her IMDB page, Margarita Levieva is 37 years old!  She does not look her age.  And yes, agreed, she is one stunning woman. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 9/14/2017 at 8:26 AM, Rinaldo said:

I suspect that this may not have been the most suitable series for the "release the pilot early to build up interest" technique...I absolutely disagree about this being "slow" (not that slow is inherently bad) -- there was a ton happening. But it's hard to sort it out at this point and really take it in. That will probably happen once we have Episode 2, and 3, and onward. So I plan to watch it again once the series starts for real.

This is the first I've heard that the series hasn't started for real! Damn--I was looking forward to seeing the next episode this Sunday. (The reason I was so looking forward to it is that the first episode totally hooked me.) I guess not?

Edited September 16, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[msrachelj]

On 9/12/2017 at 8:34 PM, txhorns79 said:

I'm not sure what to make of this show.  It's visually interesting, and they clearly went to great lengths to recreate early 1970s New York, but I was kind of lost with all the characters and the plot.  I also felt a little grimy after watching the episode.  I'll say this, I couldn't make it through the first episode of Vinyl, so the fact I want to see where this goes is probably a good sign.        

very realistic, the streets, the interiors. good job.

 when i was young and my friends and i were restless and bored in the wee hours, we would go to the city, times square in particular because it was alive.  it was dirty and scary but made you feel. 

i have good memories of this time though, of course this is because  we were bystanders (and young! )and did not have to live with that going on in our neighborhood. we never thought in depth of the hell those women were living. and the homeless sleeping on the sidewalks. very sad. 

we took the train back to our comfortable bedrooms. the city never slept, for sure. 

[Rinaldo]

10 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

This is the first I've heard that the series hasn't started for real! Damn--I was looking forward to seeing the next episode this Sunday. (The reason I was so looking forward to it is that the first episode totally hooked me.) I guess not?

You were right, in fact, but I was right too. ☺ The pilot was made available on August 25 (which is when I saw it), but the "real" premiere is considered to have happened on September 10. So we'll be seeing Episode 2 on September 17.

[Milburn Stone]

Oh good! Thanks. Already I'm regretting there are only 8 episodes of this. :) 

This could be the earliest I ever grew concerned about a renewal.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On September 14, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Rinaldo said:

I've seen Lawrence Gilliard Jr. in roles on Elementary, Graceland, and The Good Wife. But yes, it's nice to see him as a regular on a new show. And on a different side of the law!

I just want to see a show in which he is a regular and SURVIVES! (BTW, he's active on Twitter and really seems like one of the nicest people in the biz!)

ETA: Hoping that the show's music supervisor finds a way to get this gem onto the show one of these days ... 

Edited September 16, 2017 by PamelaMaeSnap

[Moxie Cat]

Count me in as someone who totally thought the twin who sashayed down Times Square and placed the bet with the guy wearing the ruffle shirt was still Vincent. Duh, on second viewing. In my defense, I believed Vincent when he told the two guys that his brother was in Vietnam.

Good show. I appreciated it more on a second viewing when I actively tried to keep track of the pimps and hookers. That cleared up a lot.

On September 12, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Syndicate said:

It looks like one of those shows with a thousand aimless subplots SLOWLY leading nowhere!

Not every show can be the recent Twin Peaks. Poster child for irrelevant subplots!

[planet17]

11 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Oh good! Thanks. Already I'm regretting there are only 8 episodes of this. :) 

This could be the earliest I ever grew concerned about a renewal.

I think it'll do fine and quickly will be renewed. Treme didn't have high ratings or Emmy noms, and lasted 4 seasons.

 

My biggest fear is having to wait more than a year for another season. The Deuce was announced 2015 and the pilot shot in October 2015. It premiered 2 years later. I hope we don't have to wait that long for another season.

[DollEyes]

My verdict: I'm in. Based on David Simon's involvement alone, I knew The Deuce would be good, but based on the pilot alone, it's even better than I expected. The Deuce is just like 70s' Times Square: dirty, sleazy, crazy, vicious & dangerous but also colorful, intriguing, provocative, unpredictable and sexy. It's not pretty, but at least it's real.  The pilot may have been a little slow in spots, but it's a pilot; of course it's gonna be slow. Not all pilots can/should hit the ground running like Lost. 

 Re James Franco, I believe that he's an acquired taste, but he's also very talented & this show is a great vehicle for him. 

Lawrence Gilliard Jr. is just as good here as he was on The Wire. Hopefully, his cop character won't meet the same fate as D'Angelo.

 As Candy, Maggie Gyllenhaal is the heart of the show. She gives the cynical "hooker-with-a-heart-of-gold" new life. 

The scariest characters on the show so far are the pimps, especially C.C., the one who slashed one of his girls for not making any money on a rainy night. Like all pimps, C.C seems like a nice guy, but if a girl doesn't pay him what he thinks he deserves, he'll be her worst nightmare. 

Edited September 17, 2017 by DollEyes

[lucindabelle]

College girl abbey is fascinating and the actress is beautiful but 19 or 20 does not look like that. 

 

Similarly high school kids do not look like 20 something- some always look 12.

 

id have bought it if they said she was a grad student- she looks about 28 to me. 

 

Its weird how women over 40 (I guess it's 50 now) can't find work on tv but television almost never casts the right age for teens and young 20s, as if we won't notice.

 

its a shock when you go to an actual high school or college and see what actual young people look like.

 

its not a period thing- youth culture was still huge in 1971. And the hippies look soooo young. 

[Gobi]

5 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

College girl abbey is fascinating and the actress is beautiful but 19 or 20 does not look like that. 

 

Similarly high school kids do not look like 20 something- some always look 12.

 

id have bought it if they said she was a grad student- she looks about 28 to me. 

 

Its weird how women over 40 (I guess it's 50 now) can't find work on tv but television almost never casts the right age for teens and young 20s, as if we won't notice.

 

its a shock when you go to an actual high school or college and see what actual young people look like.

 

its not a period thing- youth culture was still huge in 1971. And the hippies look soooo young. 

It's largely a business decision. Actors younger than 18 are limited in the number of hours and days they can work, it's easier to just use older actors to play teens when it's a substantial part.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Gobi
Content

[PamelaMaeSnap]

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

It's largely a business decision. Actors younger than 18 are limited in the number of hours and days they can work, it's easier to just use older actors to play teens when it's a substantial part.

So true. The term 18 TPY (to play younger)  is very common in casting ... someone who is legally 18 or older so they can work the maximum hours but can play younger ages.

There is also, with kids, a set of ages which I don't know offhand where the hours/schooling bumps down so you'll often find, say (and these may not be the right age bumps) 8 TPY, 12 TPY, etc. So in modeling, being tall is a huge asset for young'uns but in acting, being teeny tiny and looking younger is money (and woe be to the kid actor who actually goes through puberty and gets into the dreaded dead zone). 

[Rinaldo]

Especially on the stage, where distance lends more illusion, there's a whole series of diminutive adult actresses who continued to play under-20 well into their 30s, because they could work the full hours, didn't need a "sitter," and had well-honed skills: Amy Wright, Cynthia Nixon, Jennifer Dundas, among others. When they made the transition to adult roles, it could be disconcerting as they seemed to jump 20 years in age instantly.

The phenomenon isn't quite as common with men, perhaps because physical maturity is less concealable; still, Matthew Broderick, Michael J. Fox (onscreen), and a few others played below their real age for years.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

The phenomenon isn't quite as common with men, perhaps because physical maturity is less concealable; still, Matthew Broderick, Michael J. Fox (onscreen), and a few others played below their real age for years.

But in this case it might have helped casting someone who wasn't as old as 37. 

[lucindabelle]

Sure but she can be a college girl and be 25 for heavens sake. 

Mahwa lovely bit real college kids don't look like that and real high school kids look like children. Just look at your own yearbooks.

this actress doesn't suggest 19. At all.

 

as for on the stage I disagree. I'm a theatre critic and see a lot of shows. Short doesn't mean young. One of the best things about the musical of spring awakening was one of the high school girls being short and flat chested. LIKE A REAL GIRL!

 

when I was 21 I routinely was asked if I was 14. So I know young looking actors are out there and can't do it.

ar 37 she's very young looking. But not as young looking as all that. She's closer to 40 than 20, after all....

[PamelaMaeSnap]

My daughter, while she does not have little teeny tiny features or a turned up cute little nose (like her mom hahahaha) and while she is quite mature and poised, is constantly being carded and assumed to be younger than she is. I'd say she even gets asked for her ID more often than not when she is out for dinner with me and Mr. Snap (and we are pretty clearly her parents). And today is her 27th birthday. I've told her that someday she'll really appreciate this. 

I've joked with her (since she lives in LA) that if she's looking for extra money she should go out for extra jobs as an 18 TPY. She actually worked as a set-sitter for one indy film when she moved out there and they used her as an extra (a scene with three people) and though she had graduated college ... she played an 8th grader. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 9/18/2017 at 0:40 PM, sistermagpie said:

But in this case it might have helped casting someone who wasn't as old as 37. 

I guess you mean that when you saw her in the part you were instantly aware of how old she really is.

I can only offer, FWIW, that I wasn't. I bought her as being close enough to the age she was playing that it never occurred to me to question it until I read her real age here.