S07.E07: The Dragon And The Wolf

[proserpina65]

Just now, Edith said:

Agree! Not only that but he has done it before! Night Watch/Wildlings thing. So this is either bad writing or Jon is just becoming stupider as time pass by!

Jon was under orders to ingratiate himself with Mance Rayder at the time.

[Misplaced]

Cersei says..."Highgarden bought us the most powerful army in Essos.  The Golden Company….20,000 men, horses ...elephants, I believe."

I say what my Roman history prof said in university, which was "The rule is, whatever army has the most elephants, loses.  Hannibal only had one elephant when he finally crossed the Alps, but it was enough - he lost."

Oh yeah, those elephants will be her downfall.  

Edited August 28, 2017 by Misplaced
Spelling ....

[DarkRaichu]

26 minutes ago, Edith said:

My very unpopular opinion 

Cersei is right. If dragons, dothraki, unsullied, wildlings and northern armies can't beat the dead, what good is the Lannister army going to do? If the dead win, they march south and kill her, if the living win, Team Dany  march south and kill her.

Cersei is a duplicitous snake backstabbing the "heroes" (who are responsible for bringing down the wall), but she's playing the clearly correct move. 

Well, technically she is betting on Team Jon+Dany win.  She seems to forget that if Jon lose, the NK will effectively double his army with dead Dothraki+Unsullied.  

The smart thing to do would have been sending some Lannisters' army north as promised to buy some trust AND to spy on Dany's men.  Once NK is defeated then she can make a sneak attack with 20k Golden Company + Euron's fleet + the rest of LAnnisters  army 

[Edith]

17 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Oh, I don't disagree that she was reading the situation accurately, but how she played it ended up completely isolating her. Working with Jon and Dany would have bought her leverage, at least enough to protect herself and her family. Instead she squandered that opportunity. Now she's made sure that Jon and Dany will seek to destroy her once the NK is dealt with, and worse, she's lost her brother/lover over her duplicity. Jamie now sees that what is going on is far bigger and more important than any of them, while Cersei has made it clear that she will sacrifice everyone and everything to protect her position. Whether or not her gamble pays off remains to be seen, but I wouldn't want to be in her shoes.

But that's Cersei! and is the Tyrell problem all over again. She reads the situation quite well but she doesn't know who to play it.

[YaddaYadda]

13 minutes ago, Bryndza said:

Was that Thoros we saw in the front line of the walkers?

Thoros's body was burned last episode.

I'm still unsure why the NK came through Eastwatch. Is it because it was closest to Hardhome, and have they been marching from Hardhome this whole time? 

Also, if it's because it's closest to Hardhome, then NK is obviously smarter than Jon who walked back to Castle Black from Hardhome with Tormund and the other wildlings.

Edited August 28, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Oscirus]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Tommen was on Cersei.  If she hadn't insisted on keeping control over him, she wouldn't have talked him into arming the Faith Militant to ruin the Tyrell's and she wouldn't have ended up blowing up his wife and causing his suicide.

Joffrey was Olenna and Little Finger and he deserved it.

Myrcella was killed out of revenge over Cersei's champion killing Oberyn Martell during Tyrion's trial by combat.  You could put that on some combination of Cersei, Tywin, Olenna and LF.  

The point about Tommen being on Tyrion is that when he left and killed Tywin, that he created a power vacuum that caused Cersei and company to react in the way she did. Did she over react? That's an understatement. But still the origins of the problem laid with the power vacuum that he created on his way out the door.

[nodorothyparker]

16 minutes ago, Edith said:

My very unpopular opinion 

Cersei is right. If dragons, dothraki, unsullied, wildlings and northern armies can't beat the dead, what good is the Lannister army going to do? If the dead win, they march south and kill her, if the living win, Team Dany  march south and kill her.

Cersei is a duplicitous snake backstabbing the "heroes" (who are responsible for bringing down the wall), but she's playing the clearly correct move. 

It was interesting to me how Cersei and Jaime were both arguing the same outcome, but from different angles.  She's saying that it doesn't matter whether they go along with it or not, they're still fucked so she might as well choosing the fucking that gives her the best position to try to fight it.  Jaime was coming at it basically from using Cersei's own words in the dragon pit that at least by keeping their word, some good will might be garnered toward that final face off toward their survival.  In a season that's seen former enemies in previous battles become allies on Team Jon and Team Dany, his reasoning doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility excepting for the fact that Cersei will see every last one of them dead before she agrees to any sort of sharing or giving up of power.

[Lady Iris]

I think one of my all time favorite moments in all of GoT is going to be the Hound, carefully undoing the box, stepping back...then NOTHING!!! Bwahahaha. I mean obviously that dead effer in there was picking his moment or nose or whatever but that was good!

[Oscirus]

2 hours ago, screamin said:

Lyanna knew very well that her son needed Ned's protection if he were to live - ergo, she was very aware that the Targaryens had fallen, and almost certainly also knew what had happened to other baby Targaryens recently, and knew her own child would likely suffer the same fate without Ned's protection, hence her extracting the promise from Ned. So, yeah, she knew the upsetting news.

Besides, Ned said Lyanna was like Arya. Do you think that Arya would allow herself to be soothed into ignorance with 'hush, hush, m'lady, everything's fine,' if she saw everyone around her was extremely upset about SOMETHING a few weeks after Rhaegar went off to battle with her own family?

Arya wouldn't have run off with Gendry and hidden in a tower while her family worried about her. So, no, those two are nothing alike.

Besides it doesn't really matter whether that bubble head knew or didn't knew. Doesn't change the story either way.

[Hana Chan]

6 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm still unsure why the NK came through Eastwatch. Is it because it was closest to Hardhome, and have they been marching from Hardhome this whole time? 

It looked like the Wall was at its weakest there. It looked more narrow than it did by Castle Black since this is where the Wall reaches the sea (to my eye it looked a bit tapered at the end). If you want to break through, a weak spot like this is where you'd want to make your push.

[Oscirus]

2 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Pride and refusal to be belittled?   He was trying to avoid death.

Jamie already told him he wasn't going to die, just be sent to the wall. Tywin got what he wanted, why would he go back on his word and risk all that.

[magpye29]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

FYI, what you quoted was someone else.

Sorry, I was trying to find the quote you quoted, and I couldn't.

[screamin]

5 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Arya wouldn't have run off with Gendry and hidden in a tower while her family worried about her. So, no, those two are nothing alike.

Besides it doesn't really matter whether that bubble head knew or didn't knew. Doesn't change the story either way.

If Arya were told that she was going to be married off, say, to that blubbering little Frey who was whining he wouldn't get the princess he was promised, I wouldn't put it completely out of the realm of possibility. But if it were Arya, her family would KNOW that was what she'd done and wouldn't blame it on Rhaegar. Seems that Lyanna was much better at camouflaging her tomboy tendencies to play the lady than Arya was....which one could read as Lyanna being better at playing the hypocrite, which fits in nicely with running off with Rhaegar.

[Shimmergloom]

2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

guess she really is pregnant?  Great, another demon spawn.

I really believe or hope(for the poetic justice) that Cersei will wind up dying in childbirth to a daughter.  And that daughter is who the prophecy is about(meaning who will replace her).  And who knows maybe she will be a Queen.  Let's say Dany/Jon have a boy and Cersei has a girl.  They get married at the end of the new Long Night and unite the kingdom for real.

[VCRTracking]

Great observation from "The Podgemonster" on Reddit:
 

Quote

 

I enjoyed in a way how Littlefinger's demise this season inversely paralleled Ned's demise in season 1.

Ned headed south and is out of place in a city of liars and schemers. Renly runs out of the city, Slynt is bought and Joffery is chaotic (& stupid) enough to top him. Ned doesn't see it coming. An honourable man dies in a dishonourable place.

Littlefinger tries to manipulate every living Stark this season in Winterfell. His schemes aren't working here as the North is a different place where oaths mean something. Bran see through him and Arya is suspicious of him. Eventually he is found out, he scrambles to defend himself but his previous tricks and lies all come home to roost. Littlefinger doesn't see it coming. A dishonourable man dies in a honourable place.

 

[YaddaYadda]

2 hours ago, screamin said:

Lyanna knew very well that her son needed Ned's protection if he were to live - ergo, she was very aware that the Targaryens had fallen, and almost certainly also knew what had happened to other baby Targaryens recently, and knew her own child would likely suffer the same fate without Ned's protection, hence her extracting the promise from Ned. So, yeah, she knew the upsetting news.

Besides, Ned said Lyanna was like Arya. Do you think that Arya would allow herself to be soothed into ignorance with 'hush, hush, m'lady, everything's fine,' if she saw everyone around her was extremely upset about SOMETHING a few weeks after Rhaegar went off to battle with her own family?

Ned said she reminds him of Lyanna at times. They have similarities, but Lyanna seems to be more of a cross between Sansa and Arya. She wants to carry a sword and ride horses, but she also cries when she hears sad songs. 

And I agree she probably knew that Rhaegar had died, King's Landing had been sacked, which always makes me wonder who else aside from the Kingsguard and the midwife was there. It doesn't seem like ravens were flying between the tower and the rest of Westeros. So someone brought that news directly to the people at the tower. The other option is that she might not have wanted her son to be used as a political pawn if Aerys was still alive. That's what Jon would have been, a rallying point against Aerys, against Viserys, against Aegon for the people who hate the Dornish. 

[GrailKing]

8 minutes ago, magpye29 said:

Sorry, I was trying to find the quote you quoted, and I couldn't.

Francie, pg 1, asked what 3 heads .....mean?

I replied Jon, Bran?

[VCRTracking]

5 minutes ago, screamin said:

If Arya were told that she was going to be married off, say, to that blubbering little Frey who was whining he wouldn't get the princess he was promised, I wouldn't put it completely out of the realm of possibility. But if it were Arya, her family would KNOW that was what she'd done and wouldn't blame it on Rhaegar. Seems that Lyanna was much better at camouflaging her tomboy tendencies to play the lady than Arya was....which one could read as Lyanna being better at playing the hypocrite, which fits in nicely with running off with Rhaegar.

It seems Lyanna was also like Robb and younger Sansa(former making rash decisions due to love and naively but not maliciously putting herself over family).

[GraceK]

Cersei walking into the meeting at the Dragonpit looked exactly like an evil Queen out of a Disney movie. Even had her own evil theme :)

[GrailKing]

14 hours ago, Amers said:

I don't understand Tyrion at the end. Is he jealous? Unhappy? 

 

Do we call Jon Aegon now? 

Why are we still watching Theon? 

What happened to the spoilers I read about Cersei at the end? (If you've read them, ykwim. That and spoilers were 100 percent spot on except that.)

Not until the rest of the world knows.

He still has a role.

May have been pushed to season 8 ( makes more sense ).

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

What I don't get is why didn't she kill Tyrion? She has no love for him like she might for Jamie. She's hated him her whole life. He's her enemy. What stopped her? The fact that she knew Jamie wouldn't like it? But she had no problem alienating Jamie later.

Given how much stock she puts in the prophecy I was shocked she didn't kill him.  What I do believe I saw was Cersei a bit off her game when talking with Tyrion.  Apparently she was entirely prepped for the meeting in the dragon pit and her meeting with Jamie and absolutely went in understanding what would go down, aside from her actual horror at the wight.  I'm not so sure she expected to have Tyrion meet with her and I think the pregnancy and the revelation he had nothing to do with Joffrey's death has her a bit off balance.  Tyrion realized she was pregnant and she saw it affected him -- and she knew that he spoke the truth when he talked about loving Myrcella and Tommen. 

Now that she has no other Lannister to bond with until the baby is born I think Cersei had a recognition that, whether she likes it or not, she does have a bond with Tyrion despite her best efforts to the contrary.

The scene with these two was absolutely incredible.  It was jarring to see that scene in the same episode where they turn around and give Peter Dinklage the absolutely inexplicable task of lurking on the boat.  I don't blame him, because I'm quite sure he was given little to no direction or insight what that was supposed to be about either.  I'm fairly certain they didn't think he needed any insight as to what was going on since it involved no dialogue.  What a shame there has been nothing riveting in the Tyrion storyline for so long now, because Peter Dinklage is absolutely incredible when he can sink his teeth into something worthwhile.

[GrailKing]

14 hours ago, Drogo said:

Could be why she's always called him Lord Baelish despite his pleas for her to call him Petyr.

Yeah, in books, she's 11-13 ( faking 14 )sometimes he's Baleish, when she knows he's lying or conniving  he's LF.

[GraceK]

I'm a little afraid that Tyrion lurking on the boat watching them bodes ill...what if he's staring at them sadly cause he considering a betrayal? For Cerseis unborn baby? I still don't like how that conversation between them ended.

[arjumand]

26 minutes ago, Misplaced said:

Cersei says..."Highgarden bought us the most powerful army in Essos.  The Golden Copmany….20,000 men, horses ...elephants, I believe."

I say what my Roman history prof said in university, which was "The rule is, whatever army has the most elephants, loses.  Hannibal only had one elephant when he finally crossed the Alps, but it was enough - he lost."

Oh yeah, those elephants will be her downfall.  

I like this! Also, the wildlings had mammoths and lost, and in Return of the King, the bad guys had mamukil (bigass mammoth types) and lost.

I wonder if the valonqar prophecy will come true in the way that Cersei will be turned into a wight and one of her brothers will have to kill her. 

Why I think Cersei's plan is super dumb: not only has she given power and an open invitation to Crazy Uncle Euron, she now wants to invite a mercenary army to Westeros, which will only stay loyal as long as the Iron Bank tells them to. Plus, I think that the Night King is also planning something to do with King's Landing. Remember, in the House of the Undying, the Iron Throne was covered in snow/ash. Now that the wildfire wasn't used to take out the Red Keep, it must be snow. And the Night King has his own fast transportation now. 

[Amerilla]

One good thing:

It's likely that we won't have to hear the words "bend the knee" again. Seriously, scriptwriters, that's the sort of things that get drinking-game fans killed. Nobody's liver can absorb that much booze. 

One bad thing:

We're going to be talking about Dany's uterus well into S8.

[ulkis]

Quote

So I just watched inside the episode and Jamie's reason for leaving Cersei is that she didn't tell him her plan? Are they serious? That's literally a worst reason than  the books.

9 hours ago, arjumand said:

I don't watch any discussion of the episode led by people who made it, I just go by what I see on screen (I trust the tale, not the teller!). And Jaime said it twice: "I pledged my support" and "I gave my word." The way I saw it was that he'd decided he wasn't going to be an Oathbreaker ever again. I'm sure it didn't help that she totally did not consult him before making false promises etc - he was the head of her armies, such as they are now.

Agreed. Although my initial thought was Jaime left because he thought her plans were crazy.

[FormerMod-a1]

37 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Well, technically she is betting on Team Jon+Dany win.  She seems to forget that if Jon lose, the NK will effectively double his army with dead Dothraki+Unsullied.  

The smart thing to do would have been sending some Lannisters' army north as promised to buy some trust AND to spy on Dany's men.  Once NK is defeated then she can make a sneak attack with 20k Golden Company + Euron's fleet + the rest of LAnnisters  army 

32 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

It was interesting to me how Cersei and Jaime were both arguing the same outcome, but from different angles.  She's saying that it doesn't matter whether they go along with it or not, they're still fucked so she might as well choosing the fucking that gives her the best position to try to fight it.  Jaime was coming at it basically from using Cersei's own words in the dragon pit that at least by keeping their word, some good will might be garnered toward that final face off toward their survival.  In a season that's seen former enemies in previous battles become allies on Team Jon and Team Dany, his reasoning doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility excepting for the fact that Cersei will see every last one of them dead before she agrees to any sort of sharing or giving up of power.

 This is where I'm at (Jamie's view).  If Jon and Dany win, if Cerie had helped, she would have gained favor or good will and probably wouldn't just be executed.  She might even retain a title.  But of course she wants all or  none.

 

27 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

It looked like the Wall was at its weakest there. It looked more narrow than it did by Castle Black since this is where the Wall reaches the sea (to my eye it looked a bit tapered at the end). If you want to break through, a weak spot like this is where you'd want to make your push.

And if they didn't have a dragon, that water is freezing over, so before then it made sense to go there.

 

21 minutes ago, magpye29 said:

Sorry, I was trying to find the quote you quoted, and I couldn't.

You need to go to the original quote.  Quoting from within another post often messes up the author (there's a post on this in the Bugs forum).  To go to the original post, just click the arrow at the top right of the quote box.

[MrWhyt]

1 minute ago, ulkis said:

Agreed. Although my initial thought was Jaime left because he thought her plans were crazy.

I also think Jaime has fully bought into the idea of "it doesnt matter who holds the throne if we're all dead" whilst Cercei is only seeing this as an opportunity to retain power.

[arjumand]

1 minute ago, ulkis said:

Agreed. Although my initial thought was Jaime left because he thought her plans were crazy.

That works too!

Seriously, every time Jaime pointed out what was wrong with them, she kept doing the 'moving the goalposts' argument, which I found super-annoying!

Jaime: we can't win against her dragons and armies!

Cersei: She has one less dragon.

Jaime: We can't win against the Dothraki.

Cersei: It doesn't matter.

I mean, why? What the hell?

So glad Jaime finally came to his senses, and is covering up / removing all his Lannister bling. About fricking time, Jaime!

[proserpina65]

14 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Add to the list of things that made Littlefinger's execution & the entire Winterfell Stark Sister plot this season so unsatisfyingly fan-ficcy:

Whatever happened to Stark way:

Do you think maybe Ned wouldn't have said that to his daughters?

[Hana Chan]

Is it my imagination, or did Lyanna look pregnant during her wedding ceremony? The gown that she's wearing is pretty flowy, but it did look like she had a little bit of a belly. If that's the case, it could possibly explain why Rhaeger was insistent on marrying her. It wouldn't matter if Jon wasn't conceived out of wedlock, but being born to a married couple would ensure legitimacy.

[stillshimpy]

13 hours ago, Lemuria said:

<snip>

At some point, Rhaegar was too dead to prevent anyone from bringing her upsetting news.  I think she was well aware that Rhaegar, Elia Martell and the kids were dead when Ned arrived.  <snip>

 

 

1

It's possible that all Lyanna knew was that Rhaegar had gotten an annulment and married her.  The fact that she knew Jon was the heir doesn't need to be related to the death of anyone, if Rhaegar got an annulment it invalidates his children from that union when it comes to the succession.  At least, it would and has done that in our world.

13 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Rhaegar not realizing that the Mad King wouldn't act like the Mad King is like that Chris Rock joke about the tiger that turned on Siegfried and Roy. "the tiger didn't go crazy, the tiger went TIGER". No one was going to respond well to that stunt Rhaegar pulled, let alone a crazy person. 

 

I think Rhaegar could know that his father would react like a crazy person but wasn't able to predict that Brandon Stark would go south, promptly followed by his father.  So it doesn't need to be a case of "My father will act like a crazy man because he is a crazy man", Rhaegar was tried to overthrow him with this move so he knew one way or another, there's just an argument to be made that he didn't realize it would end in an all war because he couldn't predict that the senior Stark, who could have given permission for the union would go directly to Good King Burns a Bunch because that's just a freaking bad plan either way. 

I love the Starks.  I am a sucker for the good guys then, now and always. That said, it was Brandon Stark's hotheaded reaction that brought about the rebellion as much as Robert's reaction or anyone else's because whereas Lyanna's father could have been persuaded -- and nothing spells persuasion like "she'll be queen, making your grandchildren next in line" -- but because Brandon lost his bird and went storming towards the crazy  (book Brandon was such a damned jerk) whatever plan they might have had went out the window. 

I do think that Lyanna's on the hook because stay the hell away from the married dude, at least until such time as all annulments and parental permissions are given.  

13 hours ago, GrailKing said:

He totally looked pissed that Jon and Dany hooked up, I wonder if he was going to hook up Jamie with her?

Also would he take Cersei out or force her to Casterly Rock.

I don't think it has to do with Cersei's baby as much as it has to do with Westerosi history.  Littlefinger seemed to know there was more to it than Lyanna being abducted.  It's possible that many people knew the rumors but wouldn't necessarily tell the Starks because it does reflect really badly on dead Lyanna at least on the "Shit, girl, you couldn't wait until after you filled in your relatives?  Also, send a fucking raven. They do every else." 

So it's possible Tyrion simply isn't jazzed about the role of romantic impulsivity and what it has already done, but he also didn't do any "Oopsie, didn't realize you weren't alone, am I interrupting anything?" knock of "put it back in your pants, kiddos, we can talk dating after this mess is straightened out." 

But when standing in a Kingdom formed by a lot of romantic entanglements and the deadly fallout, I think looking a little concerned about Starks (because that's what Tyrion thinks Jon is and he is half Stark anyway) and Targaryens doing the do has come with a high cost to the world already. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by stillshimpy

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, britesongs said:

He apparently missed Dany's ship when it left for KL so he's probably still rowing there. Again.

Hasn't he learned by now that if he runs it's a lot faster?

[Oscirus]

Dinkelage was on his game last night. I even loved that scene after his conversation with Euron where his voice shakes for a minute before he recovers.  It's little touches like that which are wow.

[Amerilla]

11 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Agreed. Although my initial thought was Jaime left because he thought her plans were crazy.

 

I thought he left because she came this close to having him killed. After lying to him, belittling his desire to keep his word, calling him stupid, accusing him of conspiracy and treason, and implying their baby had replaced him in importance. Kind of kills the romance, even among incestuous twins. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Amerilla
forgot an edit

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

I don't think it has to do with Cersei's baby as much as it has to do with Westerosi history.  Littlefinger seemed to know there was more to it than Lyanna being abducted.  It's possible that many people knew the rumors but wouldn't necessarily tell the Starks because it does reflect really badly on dead Lyanna at least on the "Shit, girl, you couldn't wait until after you filled in your relatives?  Also, send a fucking raven. They do every else." 

So it's possible Tyrion simply isn't jazzed about the role of romantic impulsivity and what it has already done, but he also didn't do any "Oopsie, didn't realize you weren't alone, am I interrupting anything?" knock of "put it back in your pants, kiddos, we can talk dating after this mess is straightened out." 

But when standing in a Kingdom formed by a lot of romantic entanglements and the deadly fallout, I think looking a little concerned about Starks (because that's what Tyrion thinks Jon is and he is half Stark anyway) and Targaryens doing the do has come with a high cost to the world already. 

Maybe, but that look didn't look like a worried look, it was an upsetting to angry look. 

Yippee, we get 12-18 months to ponder such questions. : )

[MarySNJ]

53 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Jon was under orders to ingratiate himself with Mance Rayder at the time.

Exactly. Jon was under cover among the wildlings. And even so, when he was forced to kill an innocent farmer to prove his loyalty to the free folk, he refused and blew his cover because his honor wouldn't allow him to do it. Jon's unfailing sense of honor is consistent throughout the whole series. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by MarySNJ

[Francie]

2 minutes ago, arjumand said:

That works too!

Seriously, every time Jaime pointed out what was wrong with them, she kept doing the 'moving the goalposts' argument, which I found super-annoying!

Jaime: we can't win against her dragons and armies!

Cersei: She has one less dragon.

Jaime: We can't win against the Dothraki.

Cersei: It doesn't matter.

I mean, why? What the hell?

So glad Jaime finally came to his senses, and is covering up / removing all his Lannister bling. About fricking time, Jaime!

That's been my issue since episode one of the season!

Cersei: We will create a dynasty that last thousand years.

Jamie: With what children? Ours are dead.

Cersei: A dynasty for us then.

Me: Gah,  that logically does not compute! You just contradicted yourself.

I think Cersei's said, over and over again, that she expects to die, and that she's going to go down fighting. That remained evident in her speech to Jamie, and  it was contradictory to her other arguments about now having a child to live for. 

 I too did not understand the nod to the Mountain, and then the Mountain not doing anything. All I can say is that it was an audience fake out, where we were supposed to think, "No!  He's really going to do it!"

I have to fanwank that Cersei and he had a two step procedure in place, to use just in this type of instance, as a bluff. That's giving a walking zombie A lot of credit for understanding though.

[DigitalCount]

8 minutes ago, Francie said:

I too did not understand the nod to the Mountain, and then the Mountain not doing anything. All I can say is that it was an audience fake out, where we were supposed to think, "No!  He's really going to do it!"

I have to fanwank that Cersei and he had a two step procedure in place, to use just in this type of instance, as a bluff. That's giving a walking zombie A lot of credit for understanding though.

I'm pretty sure we even heard the sound of Gregor unsheathing his sword when Cersei nodded, and Jaime visibly reacted to it before saying "I don't believe you."

Other interesting things involving Cersei include the fact that her brothers are the top (show) candidates to take her out. I was hoping Tyrion would say something during his goading like "I would definitely kill you if given the chance, I would wrap my hands around that pale white throat and choke the life from you." I'm still of the opinion that in the book it'll be neither, and theoretically it could be my choice on the show too though I find that one unlikely.

[Francie]

2 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

I'm pretty sure we even heard the sound of Gregor unsheathing his sword when Cersei nodded, and Jaime visibly reacted to it before saying "I don't believe you."

Other interesting things involving Cersei include the fact that her brothers are the top (show) candidates to take her out. I was hoping Tyrion would say something during his goading like "I would definitely kill you if given the chance, I would wrap my hands around that pale white throat and choke the life from you." I'm still of the opinion that in the book it'll be neither, and theoretically it could be my choice on the show too though I find that one unlikely.

Yes, instead of saying "not doing anything," I should have said, "sliced him up into little pieces." My point was is that he did not kill him, even on her command.

[GrailKing]

14 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

You're a Greyjoy. You're a Stark

 

Loved it.

Rebirth of house GreyStarks, minus pillar and stones, but entrails intact. 

[DigitalCount]

Oh, I agree, it was odd, especially because he unsheathed the sword. I don't know why he'd have done that if he was not going to kill Jaime then and there.

[Lady Iris]

Jamie's face in the scene was killer. I mean he loved Cersei. He threw a kid out a window for her. He's come a long way.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Lady Iris

[Misplaced]

15 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Jon has gone full noble hero at this point, every time he opens his mouth you can see Dany becoming a love struck puppy. I did love his speech about why he didn't lie because than words don't mean shit and his acknowledgment they think he's a fool for it.

It's also (which I didn't get till the end) a counterpoint to Cersei's very noble little speech about fighting the Great War .... which was a total lie.  She tells the best lies! 

[loki567]

15 hours ago, SeanC said:

Down south, I think Tyrion has to be designated this season’s Least Valuable Player.  After bungling Dany’s initial invasion, he then conceived of a grand stratagem to win Cersei’s alliance that ended up costing them one of Dany’s three dragons (and yes, he told her not to go, but the whole stupid mission was his idea in the first place; had his advice been followed, he would instead have cost Dany her main allies in Westeros) and did not even succeed in convincing Cersei to join them.  Really, Dany would have been much better off if Tyrion had fallen overboard on the way to Westeros, rather than having him around trying to convince her to try to conquer Westeros without ever spilling blood.  Oh, right,, and that led to the White Walkers getting through the Wall too.

 

I know, right? I think what it comes down too is that D&D really aren't adept at long-term plotting and because of that, they have the tendency to undercut the smart characters (okay, really all the characters) for the sake of the big spectacle scenes. For example in the books, Tyrion's about to tip the battle of Meereen in Dany's favor and have the city up and running by the time she gets back from the Dothraki in order to prove his value to her as a counselor. Compare that to the show where he needs his ass saved by the dragons. 

The reality is that Tyrion, Littlefinger, Varys, all have grown extremely superfluous to the writers. They really don't know what to do with them or how to make them look like the intelligent plotters that they are in the books. It's why Tyrion hasn't contributed a single positive thing to Dany's campaign. Why Varys being the nation's best spy master wasn't capable of getting reports of the Lannister army on the move. Why Littlefingle legit did nothing this season before having his throat unceremoniously cut.  

[SimoneS]

2 minutes ago, loki567 said:

I know, right? I think what it comes down too is that D&D really aren't adept at long-term plotting and because of that, they have the tendency to undercut the smart characters (okay, really all the characters) for the sake of the big spectacle scenes. For example in the books, Tyrion's about to tip the battle of Meereen in Dany's favor and have the city up and running by the time she gets back from the Dothraki in order to prove his value to her as a counselor. Compare that to the show where he needs his ass saved by the dragons. 

The reality is that Tyrion, Littlefinger, Varys, all have grown extremely superfluous to the writers. They really don't know what to do with them or how to make them look like the intelligent plotters that they are in the books. It's why Tyrion hasn't contributed a single positive thing to Dany's campaign. Why Varys being the nation's best spy master wasn't capable of getting reports of the Lannister army on the move. Why Littlefingle legit did nothing this season before having his throat unceremoniously cut.  

I think that Tyrion and Varys have been made stupid so that the writers can give Cersei some wins so that she stays in the game to end. 

[Drogo]

What... uhh.. whatcha aiming for here Petyr?  You had to be so creepy, and now you're dead.

[Haleth]

3 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

I can't help but wonder if we may have Arya as Littlefinger next year, to gain access to the King's Landing and kill Cersei.

Ooh, I like this!  It even brings back the idea of the valonquar which could mean LF (as a pseudo little bro to Cat and Lysa) or Arya (if valonquar is not gender specific).

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Is there any way for the NK and his army to get to Essos?  The characters keep talking about the "end of the world", but it was stated that the wights can't swim, so they could not threaten the Iron Islands. If they can't reach the Iron Islands,  how would they get to Essos?   If they can't, the real estate that Dany acquired along Slavers Bay and in the Great Grass Sea would skyrocket in value. :)

The NK could fly over to Essos and start raising the dead there too, I suppose.  Once he gets the job done in Westeros of course.

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

So no, Lyanna is no victim, she's just a spoiled brat who caused the near destruction of her house and the death of untold people because a handsome boy was into her.

"Older, married man."  Fixed that for you.  (They were both selfish and careless about the consequences.)

Edited August 28, 2017 by Haleth

[Lunula]

Did anyone else get the feeling that Tyrion might have betrayed Dany & Jon in the end? He meets with Cersei, things aren't going well and she wants nothing to do with their war against the undead, they talk of family loyalty, then we leave them and we have no idea what is said but Tyrion reappears and Cersei says she'll join them. Just as we find out that Cersei isn't helping (which didn't we all know this?) we also see Tyrion looking sad & guilty after seeing Jon enter Dany's chamber? The first thing my husband said was, "Tyrion has betrayed them for a chance to rejoin the Lannisters!"

I still feel like it'll end with Dany & Jon ruling together. Will she get preggers before or after they find out who he really is?

[Francie]

6 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Jamie's face in the scene was killer. I mean he loved Cersei. He threw a kid out a window for her. He's come a long way.

I bet he put that on his Valentine's Day, or is it's known in Westeros, love day, card: 

Roses are red

Violets are blue

Remember that time

I threw a kid out a window for you?

 

I'm going to miss Cersei having a reasonable sounding board to bounce her outrageous ideas off of (or more accurately, to tell him about them after she's made them). But I'm ready for them to bring on Jaime  and Brienne.