S07.E05: Eastwatch

[SimoneS]

37 minutes ago, paigow said:

How big is The Golden Company? Are they the Google of Sellswords? The Second Sons are like Bing? There must be a lot of fringe players that Dario can recruit and ship to Westeros?

I think that there are 10,000 sell swords in the Golden Company. I have always thought that we will see Daario again (not a spoiler, my speculation). There were 2,000 Seven Sons when Dany left Meereen. I expect that Daario would have recruited and trained some of the former slaves to add to their numbers. I would love it if he shows up with a force of 5,000 or more to reinforce Dany against Cersei.

Edited August 16, 2017 by SimoneS

[taanja]

10 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

And repopulating his domain. :) Craster's daughters were pretty darned fertile.

Does anyone else wonder about baby Sam? He is the only surviving son of Craster -- all the other's were taken by the night king and turned into...?? whatever. Does he/will he have some kind of secret power? Will the fact that Craster was his father ever come into play?

[herbaltease]

Just had a thought...

 

What if Jon and Co. run into - and bring back - Benjen to Kings Landing??  Since they've brought back almost everybody else from S1, his actor may as well make an appearance too.

[BitterApple]

7 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Are you sure that was Henry VIII's armor? He was famously tall--his height is always given as over 6' (he took after his maternal grandfather--the Plantagenets tended to be tall).  Unless he just shrunk that much as he aged!

Most suits of armor still in existence are scaled-down replicas that decorated castles. 

[riley702]

Henry VIII's suits of armor are touted as the original deal, to the point of estimating his weight by which piece was created in which year of his reign. It's well accepted historically that he (and his grandpa Ed IV) were comfortably over 6 feet - 6' 2'' and 6' 4'', respectively.

On 8/14/2017 at 11:30 AM, One Tough Cookie said:

I believe you are referring to Mary Tudor, a/k/a Bloody  Mary for her penchant for burning Protestants.  She was Henry and Catherine's daughter.

Actually, Mary I's mother, Katherine of Aragon, also famously had at least one phantom pregnancy that took her an unbelievable amount of time to admit wasn't happening. It was her first. She'd miscarried a girl, but her stomach was still so swollen that her doctors thought there had been twins and one was still viable. She even convinced herself she felt the "baby" moving, and months later made a big production out of "retiring to her chamber" to await the birth. And then weeks after that - boom, her stomach deflated overnight, she was forced to admit there was no baby, and she was humiliated.

[Casually Observant]

13 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Are you sure that was Henry VIII's armor? He was famously tall--his height is always given as over 6' (he took after his maternal grandfather--the Plantagenets tended to be tall).  Unless he just shrunk that much as he aged!

He was considered quite tall at between 6'2 - 6'4 inches tall.

12 hours ago, enoughcats said:

A bit more about the armor.  Specifically about its codpiece.  Most of the suit was darkened with age and exposure to air, but the codpiece was , er, polished, by tens of thousands of hands rubbing it, over time, to give them luck in conceiving children.  It seemed hellish ironic given VIII's problems with his queens, but not with his pieces on the side. 

Oh, how that codpiece sparkled as the light hit it.

When you are king, you are the most handsome man in the kingdom, everybody tells you so.  And syncophants never lie.  (And they tell you your codpiece is the largest one they've ever forged.)  (All that rubbing made it shrink)

But you see, he was the handsomest man in the kingdom in the beginning, having been named king at age 18 years of age!  And his codpiece was very large for a very good reason.  Back in 1984, we went to London and saw the original armor of King Henry VIII. Numerous pieces were on display. At first he was very well built and slim. Then he grew larger and larger.  His codpiece grew larger as his body did. It was huge towards then end, and it was explained that he had contracted a venereal disease and his well-hung male parts were swollen badly and the codpiece had to be made so as to not touch or bother them. He also suffered from leg ulcers of the thigh.   Below is an excerpt from the JRSM (Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine) regarding King Henry VIII:

    "He was physically fit, described by Giustinian, the Venetian Ambassador to the English Court as: ‘… the handsomest potentate I ever set eyes on; above the usual height, with an extremely fine calf to his leg, his complexion very fair and bright with auburn hair combed straight and short in the French fashion, and a round face so very beautiful that it would become a pretty woman, his throat being rather long and thick’.7 Henry's prowess at jousting, tilting, hunting and tennis was legendary: ‘not only very expert in arms, and of great valour, and most excellent in his personal endowments, but … likewise so gifted and adorned with mental accomplishments of every sort that we believe him to have few equals in the world’. However, his propensity for vigorous sport led to a variety of injuries of varying severity.

    A bon-viveur renowned for his appetite, Henry's weight gradually increased despite his early athleticism.  His expanding girth is easily pictured by comparison between his personal suits of armour. Henry was tall at over six feet, and in his 20s weighed about 15 stone (210 lbs.) with a 32″ waist and 39″ chest but by his 50s his waist had increased to 52″ and, by the time of his death in 1547 at the age of 56 years, he is thought to have weighed about 28 stone (392 lbs.)."

Perhaps his early injuries, his distress over not having heirs born to him quickly, and his contracted STD contributed to his immense weight gain, and subsequent spiral into a miserable and punitive human being.

[Bryce Lynch]

On 8/13/2017 at 11:15 PM, Sentient Meat said:

They are not mutually exclusive desires... Sansa although she has grown and matured in many ways... still would have some of the old Sansa inside her.

Perhaps Arya was overly judgmental but why would the writers raise this point, if it meant nothing?

I think Sansa is conflicted.  Part of her wants to be Queen in the North, but she also wants to be loyal to Jon and do what is right.

I saw that scene as Arya more or less reading her mind with some Faceless Men technique.  The Faceless Man and the Waif could always tell when Arya was lying, even when she was lying to herself  (like about still hating the Hound). 

She tells Sansa, "You're thinking it right now.  You don't want to be.  But the thought just won't go away."  She can tell that Sansa is lying to herself by denying that at least part of her wants to be Queen in the North.

[Bryce Lynch]

On 8/14/2017 at 8:21 PM, doram said:

 

 

I think declaring Jon Snow - Murderer of 10-Year Old Boys - as "good" definitely falls under the "arguing that other people are worse" category.

 

Jon did not murder a 10 year old boy, he hanged several traitorous mutineers who had assassinated the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

I had no problem with that or with Dany roasting the Tarly's, though I thought beheading them would have been a better move politically to avoid spreading "Mad Queen" talk.

[Mabinogia]

38 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She tells Sansa, "You're thinking it right now.  You don't want to be.  But the thought just won't go away."  She can tell that Sansa is lying to herself by denying that at least part of her wants to be Queen in the North.

My problem is Arya said it like it's a bad thing, and I don't get why Sansa should be ashamed of wanting to rule the North. Especially if she is not acting on it, which she is not, at least she wasn't before Arya put the idea in her head. IDK it was just such a spiteful thing to say from someone who just fucking got there and knows nothing about what's been happening in the North.

[Bryce Lynch]

27 minutes ago, doram said:

I have no problem with either. If you read through the "conversation" I brought it up in, you'll see that I brought up the one (Jon's execution of Ollie) to give a context for the other (Dany's execution of Tarly) and point out a certain double standard.

Dany was already being called the "Mad Queen" for asking Jon to bend the knee. 

OK, I share your opinion that Dany is being judged unfairly.  I'm not sure I would call it a double standard based upon Olly's execution as I think that was apples and oranges.  Olly mutinied and plunged a dagger into the heart of his Lord Commander, to whom he was oath bound to obey.  His execution was a no-brainer.  The Tarly's refused to kneel to a would be queen who defeated them in battle and captured them.  I think the double standard is more in how Dany is treated compared to other Lords, Ladies, Queens and Kings.   Jon still has the cleanest hands, IMO.

As for the "Mad Queen" label, Dany was going to be called that by Lannister propagandists no matter what, and most others were always going to wonder if she was a crazy as her Daddy.   I just don't  think it was smart for her to unnecessarily add any fuel to  "like father, like daughter" idea by burning people she doesn't need to burn.  I agreed that she had to execute them after they refused to kneel after her ultimatum.  I just think beheading would have been more humane and played better for her in public opinion.  

Then again, maybe her clear "bend the knee or burn in dragon fire" policy will cause people to submit more quickly.  

[Bryce Lynch]

On 8/14/2017 at 10:01 PM, Timetoread said:

I don't find Dany to be a hypocrite at all.  Dany is not there to free the 7 Kingdoms, she is there to RULE them.  This was a plan she came up with when she was married to her gorgeous Dothraki husband.  On the way she freed the enslaved people who she came across - usually showing her disdain for the ruling classes.  As she freed them, she gave them the option to go be free or come with her.  They chose to come with her.  Now that she is back in Westeros, she is not on a slave freeing mission, she is fighting for the throne.  Dany has ALWAYS been royalty.  She was born a princess.  As Khaleesi she was a Dothraki queen - and Khal Drogo, who was more ambitious than most khals, wanted to seize on what she brought to the table  - to cross the sea.  The men who fight against her now and lose are not slaves, they are POW's and are frankly hers to kill.  She's being nice to allow them a choice of being part of the solution rather than the problem, nor is she interested in wasting her time and resources keeping live prisoners.  Turn them or burn them.  It's the choice I'd give.

Also, everybody is mad that she insisted Jon to bend the knee, but look at it from her perspective: there was no King in the North.  That is a made up title from a region that is rebelling against the Lannister rule.  Now that she is coming to overthrow the Lannisters and take ALL the kingdoms (not just the North), her idea was that she join the people who are already anti-Lannister (less people to fight/kill, more to fight/kill for her team).  But do not get it twisted, she isn't there to SHARE power with some unknown, democratically elected upstart.  She is there to CLAIM her throne based on her birthright and considerable resources.  Truth is that if she were the tyrant everyone is accusing her of being, she would have killed Jon where he stood.  Jon's lucky he's cute.

The King in the North is anything but a "made up title".   It is an ancient title that goes back many thousands of years, and I believe it was always carried down through House Stark.  It is probably the oldest and most legitimate title in all of Westoros.  The North was an independent kingdom until about 300 years before the time of the show, when the Targaryens conquered the North and Torrhen (the King that knelt) knelt before Aegon and his dragons.    

If anyone other than Ned Stark's close friend, Robert Baratheon had seized the Iron Throne after the Targaryens were overthrown the North likely would have declared independence again and made Ned King in the North immediately.  Once Robert was dead, and the Iron Throne was controlled by a Lannister bastard, there was no longer any reason for the North to remain subservient to any ruler of the Seven (Six?) Kingdoms.  

If Jon Snow were to kneel before a would be Queen, who hasn't even taken the Iron Throne yet, and who had just lost major battles to the Lannisters and their allies, the Northern Lords (including Lady Mormont) would almost certainly rebel against him and call him a traitor.  There might come a time for the North to submit to Daenerys but that time has not come yet.

I can understand Daenerys wanting to Jon to kneel, but he couldn't even if he wanted to, at this point.  

Edited August 16, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Bryce Lynch]

15 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Yeah, 30+ years ago I knew someone who's wife got an annulment of their marriage even though they had a two year old daughter and the husband didn't want the annulment. If you know the right bishop or cardinal and you have the $$$ it's fairly easy. I don't think it was even that expensive.

 

Ok, somebody please convince me that neither of these things I've been brooding about will happen:

1. Dead Hodor and Dead Summer will be seen in the Dead Army

2. Cersei will decide she would rather let the White Walkers have the North than deal with the Starks 

I agree, I would think the heir to the Iron Throne could get a maester to issue an annulment fairly easily through some combination of bribes and threats.   Even if the maester couldn't be personally bribed or threatened, Rhaegar might have threatened to have Elia killed if the maester refused.  

I could see both #1 and #2 happening.  I certainly can't see Cersei doing anything simply for the good of the Seven Kingdoms.

[enoughcats]

13 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think that there are 10,000 sell swords in the Golden Company.

Where do you 'store' 10,000 sell swords when they aren't sold?  That is a huge number of mouths to feed and amuse.  It's one thing to make an army of farmers who have work to do when they aren't fighting, but, for that reasoning, what do the Dothraki do when they aren't pillaging and plundering? 

[Popples]

12 hours ago, herbaltease said:

Just had a thought...

 

What if Jon and Co. run into - and bring back - Benjen to Kings Landing??  Since they've brought back almost everybody else from S1, his actor may as well make an appearance too.

I do think (and hope) that they'll run into Benjen during the battle, but when he took Meera and Bran to the Wall, he said he can't go past it anymore. If they can find a way for it to happen, I'll be all for it.

[kitmerlot1213]

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

My problem is Arya said it like it's a bad thing, and I don't get why Sansa should be ashamed of wanting to rule the North. Especially if she is not acting on it, which she is not, at least she wasn't before Arya put the idea in her head. IDK it was just such a spiteful thing to say from someone who just fucking got there and knows nothing about what's been happening in the North.

This!  Arya seems very reluctant to see or even acknowledge just how much Sansa's changed.  Arya needs to step back and give her sister the benefit of the doubt instead of looking at everything in such black and white terms.  Let's say there is a secret part of Sansa that wants to be queen--that doesn't automatically mean she's going to start undermining Jon and hatching plans.  I'm kind of embarrassed for Arya that she's so stuck in the past that she can't see how much her sister has matured.

[Keepitmoving]

Arya just needs to stay in her damn lane. She's not a politician she's an assassin, so just STFU and assassinate on behalf of the North and your Stark family.  And those assassinations should not include anyone with Stark blood.

I love the girl, but she's way out of line. She's operating without doing her homework.

[Mabinogia]

8 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

 I'm kind of embarrassed for Arya that she's so stuck in the past that she can't see how much her sister has matured.

Arya is a very sad character in that she became so consumed by revenge that she hasn't grown at all. She's just a murderous child instead of just a child who lost her innocence in a different way than Sansa. They have both gone through so much. If they could just put aside the squabbles of their childhood I think they could learn a lot from each other.

[DrSparkles]

17 hours ago, Giselle said:

Arya is the perfect reason why you hang young pups if they have already bitten and attacked.

Um, what now?

[proserpina65]

On ‎08‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 1:05 AM, TigerTimes said:

I think Arya is the politically astute Stark.

No way.  She'd lop off heads in a minute without considering the actual consequences.  Rather like Robb did, and he was probably the least politically astute Stark.  Sansa is right about needing to keep the lords mollified.  House Stark cannot possibly head off what's coming without the support of the Houses which owe them fealty. They also desperately need the men from the Vale as well, and keeping those men at Winterfell requires seeing that Lord Royce stays on their side.

[DrSparkles]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:31 PM, Kelda Feegle said:

I saw a couple of posters suggest that one of the dragons go and collect a white walker and it got me to thinking...  Would they actually be any use in the freezing wasteland?  Surely their metabolism is similar to reptiles which would slow down in the cold? Any show lore to contradict this?

This is what I thought too, they couldn't fly or something or other < a certain temp. I was also thinking vis-à-vis Sam & being tied to the wall: I feel like once the white walkers cross over, or the battle takes place, the wall will become a moo (TM: Joey) point, and may not even exist any more.

[BitterApple]

18 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

 

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

My problem is Arya said it like it's a bad thing, and I don't get why Sansa should be ashamed of wanting to rule the North. Especially if she is not acting on it, which she is not, at least she wasn't before Arya put the idea in her head. IDK it was just such a spiteful thing to say from someone who just fucking got there and knows nothing about what's been happening in the North.

 

I don't either. Sansa reminds me of someone who fills in for their boss and realizes "Hey, I'm pretty good at this!". Arya implying Sansa wished Jon would die is one of the shittiest things I've ever heard on this show. 

I must say, Arya and Bran are really putting a damper on the Stark family reunion. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by BitterApple

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I must say, Arya and Bran are really putting a damper on the Stark family reunion. 

Yeah, poor Sansa gets all excited that one of her siblings is back and they are like "yeah, you were raped" "yeah, you want the crown yourself". At least Arya hugged her back BRAN! lol

[paigow]

Arya trained in the House Of Black and White so her world view naturally reflects that...

Edited August 16, 2017 by paigow

[enoughcats]

What kind of creature is Benjen?

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

No way.  She'd lop off heads in a minute without considering the actual consequences.  Rather like Robb did, and he was probably the least politically astute Stark.  Sansa is right about needing to keep the lords mollified.  House Stark cannot possibly head off what's coming without the support of the Houses which owe them fealty. They also desperately need the men from the Vale as well, and keeping those men at Winterfell requires seeing that Lord Royce stays on their side.

I wouldn't say Arya is politically astute.  But, I would say that through her experience and her Faceless Men Jedi Mind Tricks, she knows people, when they are lying, when they can be trusted, etc. better than just about anyone, and definitely better than Sansa.    Sansa understands politics much better (Arya wouldn't care about them if she did understand) and seems to be a very good administrator (collect more food for winter. why is there no leather on those breastplates?, etc.)

You are right about needing the support of the Houses, but then again, Arya could probably assassinate any who would go against the Starks, and frame other disloyal Houses for the killings. :)

[RedHawk]

On 8/15/2017 at 0:09 PM, paigow said:

Not if it becomes "New Dothrak Town"....

Hmmm, Dany came to love her Dothraki husband, and maybe Sam's sister has been kinda lonely...

[DarkRaichu]

36 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

What kind of creature is Benjen?

A more benign version of Night King.  The chldren of the forest essentially did to him  what they did to NK (shoving dragon glass to his chest).  He would have been dead otherwise

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

Arya is a very sad character in that she became so consumed by revenge that she hasn't grown at all. She's just a murderous child instead of just a child who lost her innocence in a different way than Sansa. They have both gone through so much. If they could just put aside the squabbles of their childhood I think they could learn a lot from each other.

I disagree about Arya.  She has refused to kill for the sake of killing.  When she was supposed to kill the Thin Man, (who deserved killing) but she saw Meryn Trant she defied Jaquen and killed him instead.  She refused, at the last minute, to kill the innocent Lady Crane and was almost killed for it by the Waif.  She killed the stable boy because he was trying to capture her, and it was probably unintentional.  I believe all her other kills were for righteous reasons, mainly vengeance against those who murdered her family and friends.  She also spared the Lannister soldiers who offered her the rabbit, despite the fact that they were enemies of her hours, when she could have killed all of them.  

[CeeBeeGee]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I disagree about Arya.  She has refused to kill for the sake of killing.  When she was supposed to kill the Thin Man, (who deserved killing) but she saw Meryn Trant she defied Jaquen and killed him instead.  She refused, at the last minute, to kill the innocent Lady Crane and was almost killed for it by the Waif.  She killed the stable boy because he was trying to capture her, and it was probably unintentional.  I believe all her other kills were for righteous reasons, mainly vengeance against those who murdered her family and friends.  She also spared the Lannister soldiers who offered her the rabbit, despite the fact that they were enemies of her hours, when she could have killed all of them.  

And also spared the Frey wife and the female servants.

[Haiti D]

Personally, I've never forgiven Arya for abandoning the Hound...

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Haiti D said:

Personally, I've never forgiven Arya for abandoning the Hound...

I think that was because she didn't have the heart to kill him.  Jaquen kept slapping her for lying when she claimed she wanted the Hound to suffer and that she hated him and she confessed to the Waif that she had taken him off her list.   

[kitmerlot1213]

37 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I disagree about Arya.  She has refused to kill for the sake of killing.  When she was supposed to kill the Thin Man, (who deserved killing) but she saw Meryn Trant she defied Jaquen and killed him instead.  She refused, at the last minute, to kill the innocent Lady Crane and was almost killed for it by the Waif.  She killed the stable boy because he was trying to capture her, and it was probably unintentional.  I believe all her other kills were for righteous reasons, mainly vengeance against those who murdered her family and friends.  She also spared the Lannister soldiers who offered her the rabbit, despite the fact that they were enemies of her hours, when she could have killed all of them.  

Arya spared Lady Crane because she genuinely liked her but she didn't spare the Thin Man for any righteous reason--she simply got distracted by her need to kill Meryn Trant first.  Also not killing the female Freys does show she can discriminate the guilty from the innocent--which makes her suspicions towards Sansa that more annoying.  Just focus on Baelish and will all be better off :)

Edited August 16, 2017 by kitmerlot1213

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

Arya spared lady Crane because she genuinely liked her but she didn't spare the Thin Man for any righteous reason--she simply got distracted by her need to kill Meryn Trant first.  Also not killing the female Freys does show she can discriminate the guilty from the innocent--which makes her suspicions towards Sansa that more annoying.  Just focus on Baelish and will all be better off :)

I think it makes her suspicions of Sansa more concerning, not annoying.  She knows Sansa his having thoughts of Jon either dying or the Lords deciding to replace him with her.  I think Sansa letting her know that she was lying to herself was good for Sansa, as it will give her more of a chance of overcoming her bad thoughts.  

[paigow]

Arya is like the love child of Deanna Troi & Charles Xavier.....

[Lady S.]

So, basically the most normal family member Sansa has left is the guy in danger of accidental Targcest?

[CletusMusashi]

Arya hasn't seen Sansa since Season One. I wasn't a fan of S1 Sansa for pretty much the same reasons that Arya wasn't a fan of S1 Sansa. So the suspicion is quite understandable. Just as Sansa's reaction to Arya's list was "Oh, same silly little girl who thnks she's a warrior..." it's still reasonable for Arya to look at Sansa and remember the girl who wanted to marry a prince so badly that she was willing to cover up the fact that Joffrey was a sadistic and unstable little cunt.

Edited August 16, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[izabella]

Maybe Arya could be spending some of her time actually talking with Sansa about what they BOTH experienced since they last saw each other, before Arya starts sniping at Sansa.

[Haiti D]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think that was because she didn't have the heart to kill him.  Jaquen kept slapping her for lying when she claimed she wanted the Hound to suffer and that she hated him and she confessed to the Waif that she had taken him off her list.   

To me, it seems that she thought abandoning him was, in effect, killing him.

Quote

Maybe Arya could be spending some of her time actually talking with Sansa about what they BOTH experienced since they last saw each other, before Arya starts sniping at Sansa

Very true... and that's one problem with the fast pacing of this current season is that potential scenes like you describe will never be fit in, even if they wanted to do it.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Haiti D

[paigow]

Is that globe at the Citadel a TV receiver? How did the Maesters know that Tarly was toast? Tyrion sent out ravens?  Varys? 

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Arya is like the love child of Deanna Troi & Charles Xavier.....

So you are saying she is annoying ???? :P

[paigow]

I never understood why anyone played poker with Troi...she would know when you are bluffing...so annoying...

[Bec]

Come to think of it, last episode made a point of establishing that Randyll Tarly was a huge asshole who was quick to whip any underling not working fast enough for his taste, before Dany executed him this episode. So we’re probably not supposed to feel all that bad about his death.

On the other hand, his stupid sexy son didn’t seem so bad.

I’m with those who doubt Cersei would ever join forces with everyone else to fight the dead. People upthread who say she’s more likely to use the dead against her living enemies? Probably right. This meeting with Cersei is a terrible idea. Cersei’s already looking for a way to use it against them.

It’s good that Dany’s keeping Cersei busy. If Jon had Cersei’s undivided attention, she probably would have his head decorating a pike at the Red Keep by now. How would he lead the fight against the white walkers then?

This is why I don’t think Dany and Jon are really at odds with each other, despite her wanting him to recognise her as queen and him wanting her to forget about Cersei and come fight white walkers with him. Dany’s priority is Cersei, and Jon’s priority is the Night King. That’s fine. They can’t afford to be ignoring either Cersei or the Night King. Fighting a war on two fronts unfortunately stretches them thin. But it’s still better than turning their backs on one of these enemies and having that bite them in the ass.

Once the dust settles, I can see the North being like Canada - QEII is recognised as queen in Canada, but the government of England doesn’t have political power over Canada, Canada has its own political system. Same queen, separate political systems - it could work.

I think if Jon becomes king of the seven kingdoms, he’s going to turn into Robert - drinking himself to death because he’s sick and tired of all the political bullshit. That would be a sad end for him.

[Mabinogia]

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Sansa letting her know that she was lying to herself was good for Sansa, as it will give her more of a chance of overcoming her bad thoughts.  

I think that is very true. I believe that Sansa can overcome her darker impulses, but it helps to have light shed on them. Someone now needs to do the same for Arya. Let her know that she is so blinded by her desire to avenge the dead that she has stopped living. I really want the sisters to finally just hash out their differences. It can be a shouting match or it can be a quiet sit down, but they really do need each other because they are opposites and each has a strength the other lacks. It might take Jon coming home for Arya to see that Sansa is not the spoiled girl who wants pretty things anymore. I do think Sansa already sees that Arya has changed into a deadly weapon. I think she realized that during the duel with Brienne.

I still root for the Stark kids. I need them to have some kind of happy ending, or as happy an ending as this show will allow.

What I really need though is for Sansa and Arya to get their shit together and take that fucker Littlefinger down!

[Nutjob]

I just wonder if this meeting is a vehicle for the writers to enlighten Jaime. There has to be steps toward him finally getting sick of Cersei's crap, and him seeing her willing to let the dead take over rather than putting her quest for power aside for the good of humankind has to be one of those, right? RIGHT?

[Stephanie1216]

Randall Tarly was already established as a super D when Sam explained season 1 how he ended up in the nights watch in the first place. Confirmed at dinner scene with Gilly last season.

he acted so loyal to the Tyrells who he swore an oath to when talking to Jamie this season however seemed to quickly forget that Cersai who has zero claim to the throne in any and way killed the Tyrel Queen Marjorie, the Tyrell Lord and the Tyrell Heir Loras?  How soon he forgot and pledged to Cersai. So he was written poorly all the way around. His golden son Dick On (the big, tall, handsome, muscular Tom Hopper) was his pride and joy. Hard to believe he and Sam were brothers. GOT should have saved Tom for a longer part.

Jamie was so condescending to Dickon both times he met him. Apparently Dickon survived the  Dothraki battle so he held his own there.

how come they were captured but Jamie and Bron were not especially when Tyrion was close enough to watch Jamie?

Agree with Lady S

How selfish for Lyanna to secretly marry and have Raegars baby while her dad and brother were murdered in the throne room and tens of thousands died because they ran off together.

[riley702]

14 hours ago, doram said:

Remember that Dany sent Jon a raven (on Melisandre and Tyrion's advice) in which she, amongst other things, asked him to come and bend the knee and Jon showed up. 

Except that Tyrion finessed that message into something a little less insulting and removed the mention of bending the knee, which is why Jon and Ser Davos were so shocked when they got there and she demanded that.

10 hours ago, izabella said:

Maybe Arya could be spending some of her time actually talking with Sansa about what they BOTH experienced since they last saw each other, before Arya starts sniping at Sansa.

That goes both ways. We haven't seen Sansa making any effort to understand what Arya has been through, either.

[MissLucas]

22 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Where do you 'store' 10,000 sell swords when they aren't sold?  That is a huge number of mouths to feed and amuse.  It's one thing to make an army of farmers who have work to do when they aren't fighting, but, for that reasoning, what do the Dothraki do when they aren't pillaging and plundering? 

This is my main gripe with the whole Dothraki plot. What the hell are those guys doing when they aren't pillaging and plundering (actually did Dany not tell them they are no longer supposed to do that)? Sitting around braiding their horses manes and tails? Sewing those amazing outfits Dany seems to conjure up out of thin air? Maybe they are camping out like a normal cavalry on the fields of Highgarden NOT pillaging and plundering but I have a hard time imagining that. What's in it for them anyway? 

[kitmerlot1213]

7 hours ago, riley702 said:

That goes both ways. We haven't seen Sansa making any effort to understand what Arya has been through, either.

But we also don't have Sansa making nasty comments to Arya--she's too busy running Winterfell :)  Yes Sansa laughed at the kill list but that laughter quickly died when Bran confirmed that Arya actually has killed people.  Sansa is fully aware of all of the changes in Arya, it's Arya who still seems stuck in the past.  

Edited August 17, 2017 by kitmerlot1213

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, riley702 said:

That goes both ways. We haven't seen Sansa making any effort to understand what Arya has been through, either.

To be fair, none of the Starks we've known have been much on talking about their feelings and experiences. I assume Sansa knows Jon is back from the dead - if only by scuttlebutt - but have we heard them discuss that experience? Jon may know Sansa's experience, but I doubt they've talked much about it in detail. They're a stoic lot.

[CeeBeeGee]

7 hours ago, riley702 said:

That goes both ways. We haven't seen Sansa making any effort to understand what Arya has been through, either.

 

Sansa hasn't been throwing accusations at Arya either.