S07.E04: The Spoils of War

[Edith]

I don't know if someone has mentioned this already but Kudos to mommy Tarly for raising her children to be good against all odds (cough cough Randyll Tarly cough)

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

Later, Sansa is confused by the gift and can't understand why Balish would give it without asking something in return but I think Bran knew exactly what he was up to -- which shows that RainBran does have some useful skills

Not that she's confused, as she said, he's not giving you that out of the kindness of his heart, he wants something.

Bran being Bran probably already knows, Sansa not being Bran has to figure it out in real time ( LF words to her last week ).

[Constantinople]

24 minutes ago, anamika said:

You got all that from this?

 

She can already do that. Just get Royce (Who hates LF) on her side and get rid of LF. But it looks like she does not want to get rid of LF. She is walking around with him discussing all her plans for WF, letting him have conversations with Bran and generally given him free reign to do whatever he wants in WF. She knows he's a manipulative, evil man but apparently she gives no fucks about that.

Sansa has all the power now. Not LF. She can get rid of him in a minute if she wants. The fact that he is walking around plotting and that she is letting him do so is just downright hilarious. And we are supposed to think that she is some genius game player.

Given that Sansa vouched for Littlefinger before Royce when Royce et al in effect put Littlefinger on trial, she can't just do a 180 without seeming like a flighty girl

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Watching LF's face crumble like that was so satisfying. He's no longer ahead of the game. I love that his blatant attempt at manipulating Bran backfired like that. He probably gave Bran the one clue he needed to sort the information out.

Why would they tell LF anything about Bran's visions though? 

It is ivery satisfying to see Littlefinger out of his depth for once. He may be a major player in Kings Landing, but I think Northmen and women are cut from a different cloth and I don't think his usual tricks are going to work the way they used to. Sansa knows exactly what he is from experience, and Bran seems to have some idea based on visions. Arya is the only one who has not dealt directly with LF and may fall for it. But she's a smart cookie who learns from her mistakes very fast. 

I think Bran's knowledge of "Chaos is a ladder" completely freaked LF out because he knows that some of his secrets may not be as secret as he assumed.

[nodorothyparker]

19 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Quote

Realistically and to be true to his character Bronn would have switched sides before putting himself in the line of dragon fire. That's why his plot armour is so irritating. He already had one - a highly developed sense of Looking Out for Number One.

Couldn't agree more. They even set up the potential of him telling Jaime to go fuck himself with the ballista idea earlier, when he was complaining about not getting paid, and it just seemed way, way out of Bronn's character to go on what's really a suicide mission with an EXCEPTIONALLY low probability of success for Jaime's sake. 

 

I do think had they been knowingly marching toward battle with Dothraki and a freaking dragon, that whole conversation might have gone very differently with Bronn pulling a "screw you guys, I'm going home" Cartman style exit.   But they were at the tail end of a mostly uneventful effort to transport loot back to Kings Landing where they had just then acknowledged that they were sitting out in the open and exposed.  What is he going to do, quit right then and there and walk back on his own or risk Randall Tarly putting an arrow in his back for desertion because he's not immediately allowed to flog foot soldiers?  At the point the Dothraki attack, Bronn is for all appearances part of the Lannister forces and probably figures his best bet at surviving is to fight as well as he can and hope they get lucky.  Is he even aware that Tyrion is on Team Dany or physically on the other side of the battlefield and that he might have other options?

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, Francie said:

Who's this "they" you're talking about? The soldiers? They have little choice in the matter. They do what their houses tell them to do.  

What's Dany's purpose in this war? To reclaim some crown and throne to which she thinks she's entitled. She's George III's daughter coming to take back America in about 1800, screaming "It's mine! It's mine! It's mine!"

George III and his daughter weren't from America, were never exiled from America.  Danaerys at least is from Westeros, was driven from Westeros to survive.

[MrsR]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Yes, which is the show's out-of-nowhere and absurd attempt to justify the plot gift to the Lannisters. The idea that the Tyrells aren't skilled at arms has no prior canonical basis.

They're the French. The flowers represent the Fleur de Lis. The food, the fashion, the flowers, I've always seen them as the French thus I never expected them to be good fighters.

 

The water that Jaime fell into was a pond, a watering hole. The army was stopped to rest and water the horses and army. That's why they had to scramble and fetch their weapons. 

 

Yes, Tyrion could have been there to see the battle. Absolutely. Generals and advisers often were on hand to watch from a distance. Even stranger was that here were people picnicking and watching during Civil War battles.

Every manor house had to provide a certain number of men to the Earl or Baron at any given time. These men would have come from the working classes and would have been regularly trained as archers or had support skills,(blacksmithing, animal support, cook. etc.)  Every man in England at one time was required to have archery training. They could also be foot soldiers but less so, as they needed more training in hand to hand. Cavalry on the other was highly trained and expensive. Professionals.

 

Richard III directly charged Henry VII at the end. It was his undoing.

 

PS: It was Bronn who rescued Jaime. He saw the riderless white horse, and it was a rider on a white horse who saved Jaime.  He needs Jaime alive to collect his castles.

Edited August 7, 2017 by MrsR

[DarkRaichu]

One more observation.  The scene of Jaime sinking was similar to Bran falling down the tower in season1.

Oh and I hope Dickon was the one pushing Jaime down the water, if nothing else as a callback to Black Sails :P 

[Uncle JUICE]

3 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

 

I do think had they been knowingly marching toward battle with Dothraki and a freaking dragon, that whole conversation might have gone very differently with Bronn pulling a "screw you guys, I'm going home" Cartman style exit.   But they were at the tail end of a mostly uneventful effort to transport loot back to Kings Landing where they had just then acknowledged that they were sitting out in the open and exposed.  What is he going to do, quit right then and there and walk back on his own or risk Randall Tarly putting an arrow in his back for desertion because he's not immediately allowed to flog foot soldiers?  At the point the Dothraki attack, Bronn is for all appearances part of the Lannister forces and probably figures his best bet at surviving is to fight as well as he can and hope they get lucky.  Is he even aware that Tyrion is on Team Dany or physically on the other side of the battlefield and that he might have other options?

I don't think he'd have quit right at the beginning of the battle, but once like80% of the place was in flames, I always saw Bronn as the kind of guy who could recognize the battle being lost, take some cover and live to fight another day. The mission to the ballista really was not a Bronn character move, even if he didn't desert right away. "Go shoot the dragon," , "Nope, sorry"...now what's Jaime's response? "Uh...seriously, please??" That's when I feel like we departed from the Bronn character we've seen, when he went to shoot the dragon down. 

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, MrsR said:

They're the French. The flowers represent the Fleur de Lis. The food, the fashion, the flowers, I've always seen them as the French thus I never expected them to be good fighters.

France was the dominant military power in Western Europe for most of the last millennium (up until German unification).

[DarkRaichu]

4 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Yes, Tyrion could have been there to see the battle. Absolutely. Generals and advisers often were on hand to watch from a distance. Even stranger was that here were people picnicking and watching during Civil War battles.

Hmm, methinks Tyrion was there as punishment for f-ing up the war strategy, ie. stay there on the hill and watch your Lannister brethren burn to crisp

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I sort of wished she would have made an attempt to save the food though. I don't see how though.

I found it a very odd choice to specifically continue to target the food.  I thought it was about seizing the food and forcing a surrender of a good portion of the Lannister forces, who would then be forced to haul the food to Casterly Rock.

[DarkRaichu]

3 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I don't think he'd have quit right at the beginning of the battle, but once like80% of the place was in flames, I always saw Bronn as the kind of guy who could recognize the battle being lost, take some cover and live to fight another day. The mission to the ballista really was not a Bronn character move, even if he didn't desert right away. "Go shoot the dragon," , "Nope, sorry"...now what's Jaime's response? "Uh...seriously, please??" That's when I feel like we departed from the Bronn character we've seen, when he went to shoot the dragon down. 

No.  He'd rather do something else (flee maybe) but Jaime forced him to go to the ballista.  Also, with  dragon in the air burning everything and horde of horsemen on land his escape route was rather limited.  At least with the dragon down he had better chance to escape

[The Kings Foot]

3 hours ago, huahaha said:

 

One more thing: whose idea was it to make the dragon-slaying machine out of WOOD??

What else would they make it out of ?  Steel and Brass would be too heavy  and Plastic and Aluminium havent been invented as yet.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Watching LF's face crumble like that was so satisfying. He's no longer ahead of the game. I love that his blatant attempt at manipulating Bran backfired like that. He probably gave Bran the one clue he needed to sort the information out.

Why would they tell LF anything about Bran's visions though? 

I don't think they did, I think it's shock on his face, that someone would throw his own words at him.

LF is like most Southerners, he doesn't believe in magic, or mind reading, if he did he hightail it out of the North.

[Edith]

11 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I found it a very odd choice to specifically continue to target the food.  I thought it was about seizing the food and forcing a surrender of a good portion of the Lannister forces, who would then be forced to haul the food to Casterly Rock.

I don't know if D&D are going somewhere with this or is a plotline that is going nowhere, but they are mentioning a lot about the food and how important it is

From Cersei and Jaime's conversation, Sansa mentioning it too and now Dany saying that she didn't have food for her army's.

[Heathrowe]

i tend to agree with the people who think Sansa was shocked by the Arya - Brienne sparring, not jealous. I am not sure where the whole idea of a jealousy/wedge storyline comes from unless it's a spoiler. I think people project a lot on Sansa, because her character is very often written in an open-ended way. But I think Sansa was shocked by the look at what Arya has become, and to me it seems that they are trying to communicate that the children have come back to Winterfell, but much changed. Yes, they've come back but they've come back changed forever.  Bran is super annoying. Being magical doesn't mean you have to be a dick-I'll take more issue with what is going on with his character than Sansa's.  I thought the battle scene was incredible. I'm amazed anyone stayed to fight-I'd have run the minute I saw the dragon. I like Book Jaime enough to not want Show Jaime to die, but...I kind of wish that had been the end of the line for him. Unless he's going to have some kind of redemption, but even then, I feel like he's just being destroyed by events.  Jon-Dany don't bother me. Her family has a tradition of intermarriage - there are a lot of things in Westeros that are weird - I think I just have to give the incest a pass here.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

I am afraid Sansa's precise words regarding Jon's likely reaction to reuniting with Arya carried real meaning.

Yeah, in books a few of her wishes or dreams came true, Slynt, Sept of Balelor, I think the pink and gold castles.

I think she has a touch of magic still; just not on par with Bran,Arya and Jon and Rickon.

[Normades]

26 minutes ago, SeanC said:

32 minutes ago, MrsR said:

They're the French. The flowers represent the Fleur de Lis. The food, the fashion, the flowers, I've always seen them as the French thus I never expected them to be good fighters.

France was the dominant military power in Western Europe for most of the last millennium (up until German unification).

I think you're right on about them representing the French with the Fleir de Lis.  It's funny that I've never put that together before.  I do appreciate the comment about France being a dominant military power in the past.  I really hate that perception that they are not fighters.  I know, I know WWII, but seriously, their French underground was made up of some of the bravest people ever and I shudder to think of where we would have been without them.  Anyway, back to GOT, don't want start WWIII while recalling WWII.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Unless it becomes victim to lack of screentime available, I don't think we've seen the end of one Ms. Reed.  Isn't her home near East Watch?  She would recognize Hodor and Summer if she saw them again.  Her father also happens to be significantly in possession of a rather important piece of news.

I agree that it was Bronn who saved Jamie, and that we are headed for a love connection -- which I find a boring choice for this saga.

Greywatch at the Neck.

I wished they let Jojen and Her say the words to House Stark, but they didn't; maybe later if she and her father reappears.

[YaddaYadda]

Why would Sansa be jealous of Arya's skills in a fight when she's never been interested in that in the first place? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Shock is more like it. Brienne isn't exactly some summer child when it comes to fighting and Arya was matching her stroke for stroke and even beat her. The reaction would have been the same had it been Jon or Ned or Robb or Catelyn standing there watching Arya spar with Brienne.

[Minneapple]

13 minutes ago, Edith said:

I don't know if D&D are going somewhere with this or is a plotline that is going nowhere, but they are mentioning a lot about the food and how important it is

From Cersei and Jaime's conversation, Sansa mentioning it too and now Dany saying that she didn't have food for her army's.

They've mentioned it too much for it not to be an issue. Dany just burned a bunch of food she could have used and Cersei won't get that food. Meanwhile Sansa has been storing food at Winterfell. That may come into play later on.

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Greywatch at the Neck.

I wished they let Jojen and Her say the words to House Stark, but they didn't; maybe later if she and her father reappears.

Especially since their oath includes swearing by "ice and fire"?

[Shimmergloom]

I don't think Sansa was jealous or proud when watching Arya.  I think she was either worried about how much Arya has changed or she was realizing that Arya CAN actually kill Cersei. 

I think Sansa still doesn't fill safe as long as Cersei is alive.  So if Arya has Cersei on her list, I think she would want Arya to go kill her.

[Constantinople]

I'm of two minds about Bronn

He wasn't willing to face the Mountain for Tyrion, but did throw himself in the path of dragonfire to save Jaime.  Still making a decision in the cold light of day an reacting in the heat of battle aren't the same.  Moreover, Jaime is Bronn's meal ticket.  Bronn seems to want a castle and he's not likely to get one turning his coat for Daenery or heading to Essos to join a mercenary company.

So I can understand Bronn deserting Jaime, but I can also understand him sticking around.

[GrailKing]

5 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

I think Sansa still doesn't fill safe as long as Cersei is alive.  So if Arya has Cersei on her list, I think she would want Arya to go kill her.

This !

She wouldn't even have to ask, Arya would just do it ; they're family.

[MrsR]

20 minutes ago, Normades said:

France was the dominant military power in Western Europe for most of the last millennium (up until German unification).

Well this isn't the era of Napoleon represented here. This is England against France in the 14th and 15th centuries.  Think Agincourt, Crecy, Poitiers. Yes the French Resistence fighters were brave during WWII but again it's the time period.  For the record I get why France surrendered. WWI was fought in their territory and they still bore the physical and emotional scars. They knew what war meant to the landscape and the people.

But again this is medieval Western Europe, lets stick to that.

Edited August 7, 2017 by MrsR

[MVFrostsMyPie]

If I was Dany, I'd want Jon Snow to bend the knee too.... IYKWIM. 

Yay, no cameos by Cersei's wig this episode! 

Noah Syndegaard's on the DL because he got roasted by a dragon while throwing a spear, right? :)

[Spartan Girl]

14 hours ago, doram said:

The Jon and Dany scene put paid to any accusations of "No Chemistry." That was some serious heat in that cave. ?

Yeah, I think the chemistry between Kit/Emilia is getting better.  To be fair, last episode was the first time they ever met, of course it's going to be awkward and formal.  But that scene in the cave when Jon is pleading his case to Dany, there was this soft look in her eyes, as if she was seeing him, really seeing him for the first time, and understanding why he was so highly praised by Tyrion.  It was awesome.  And like I said before, Dany is more intrigued by people that don't automatically fawn all over her.

I didn't seem to notice Jon staring at her -- ahem -- "good heart" before.  Perhaps I missed it, LOL.

[Raachel2008]

10 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

The scene with Davos and Jon that led up to it was really strange too.  Its almost like Davos has become giddy over having a King that he respects.  And he's displaying it through some guy ritual where strong feelings are portrayed through ribbing and pranks and joking.  Or like he's testing him to make sure Jon's priorities aren't changing.  As if he's showing just enough lack of deference  to make sure Jon hasn't turned into Stannis and still cares more about saving everyone than being King.  But whenever anyone else doesn't address Jon with the proper language, Davos points it out fast.

I think that like Shireen before Jon, Davos is getting more and more attached to Jon in a paternal level. Matthos (sp?) was around Jon's age, and Davos has liked Jon since the very beggining. Everything Jon has done since then has only made Davos like him more. There was pride and joy in his face when Jon was crowned king, as well as during the councils at Winterfell. That makes me worry, because I LOVE Davos, and I fear that he will die trying to save Jon's life - since he couldn't protect Shireen or his own son, and this show loves its parallels.

 

10 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I mean Davos, who was illiterate until Shireen taught him to read, grammar checked the KITN tonight.  Its odd.

And correct if I'm wrong, but Jon never needed to be grammar checked before, because the Starks kids were properly educated and all. I think someone said last week that Jon's sudden accent change was maybe a way to make him talk more like the Freekfolk. I wonder if the grammar mistake was something even borader than thast,  a bigger distinction between the North (Jon) and the South/Dany.

 

9 hours ago, Anisky said:

You're holding up as an example the imperial Spanish, who as you say, "thought they had good hearts and intentions". But that would be equivalent to Daenerys saying that she herself has a good heart, which is not what happened. Jon Snow, a man with whom she is at odds (and the man who she wants to have power/dominance over) says that she has a good heart. So for your example to be equivalent, it would need to be the leaders of the Incans and Mayans who believed the imperial Spanish had good hearts. 

She doesn't need to spell it, obviously Dany sees herself as a good person.  The point is that this is war. Good intentions cannot change the nature of war: it is a carnage. What one can do is try to minimize the carnage. That is what Tyrion has been saying since the beggining, and what Dany chose when she went full dragon on the Lannister troops but didn't go straight to the Red Keep.

 

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I don't think I can agree with either of those interpretations.  I think Tyrion's giving the Unsullied the information about the secret back-door into Casterly Rock demonstrates clearly where his loyalties lie and the extant to which he will go to serve her.  Dany's accusation was unjust and unworthy of her.  It shows she's not perfect and that how badly this string of losses has demoralized her. Tyrion's reaction to watching the battle was, I think, the natural horror at seeing the dragons in combat for the first time -- seeing men burned alive is horrible even if they ARE on the "other" side and in Tyrion's case the men of the "other" side are wearing his family's colors.  And then he spotted Jaime and he can't help but not want to watch his only brother burned alive.

Tyrion has seen the dragons in action before, when Dany ordered them to burn the slaves masters' ships in Meereen last season,  and he has also seen the dragons burning individuals who were defenseless. For me Tyrion's reaction to watching the battle was exactly a 'What have I done?' moment? Actions have consequences and it is one thing to help the Unsullied enter Casterly Rock and kill whatever Lannisters is there and actually witness the Lannister amy be destroyed. That was his brother, those were the Lannister folks, that was his family army.  He 'hunted' with them, to parallel Dickon earlier.  Tyrion is part of that destruction, that is the side he took when he chose to be Dany's hand, and I believe right then was when he realized for real what it means. I don't doubt his loyalty, he wants Dany to be queen. But I don't buy  Tyrion wants Cersei or Jamie killed, not at all. Those are his siblings, that is his family. That was a shock for him, to see his house coming down in front of him. It is naif to think Tyrion wouldn't be affected, IMO. That doesn't mean he is questioning his loyalties.

Dany accusation was fuled buy rage and frustration, it never crossed her mind something like 'oh, now I look weak'. But she has a point, though: how commited Tyrion is? Is he commited to be point of accepting that Dany may want/have to burn Cersei and Jamie?

Edited August 7, 2017 by Raachel2008

[screamin]

33 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

I don't think Sansa was jealous or proud when watching Arya.  I think she was either worried about how much Arya has changed or she was realizing that Arya CAN actually kill Cersei. 

I think Sansa still doesn't fill safe as long as Cersei is alive.  So if Arya has Cersei on her list, I think she would want Arya to go kill her.

Sansa didn't want Jon to leave to potentially get taken prisoner by Dany, who she doesn't know, because it was too dangerous. I can't imagine her wanting Arya to cross all that territory solo as winter is falling to get to KL to try to kill Cersei, who she KNOWS is dangerous, no matter how much they both want her dead.

Edited August 7, 2017 by screamin

[FnkyChkn34]

I'm late to the game and there are 10 pages already... I'll read more when I get a chance, but I have to say this - 

Is Dany an idiot, or a f*cking idiot?  She had a nice little speech about how she needed resources, both food and money/gold, and that she's running out.  She'll soon be unable to feed her massive armies.  The Lannisters stole it all, yes.  So what does she do?  LIGHTS IT ALL ON FIRE?!!!?!  She couldn't have defeated the Lannister army without burning all of the supply wagons, too?  I mean, really.  Now everyone, both armies and peasants alike, have no food.  She's an idiot.

[proserpina65]

Holy crap, that was terrific!  I had chills when it ended.  I did an awful lot of "No, not Bronn, but not Drogon either!  And not Dany, but not Jaime!"  Hell, I even felt sorry for random Lannister soldiers.  And I'm sure Jaime's not dead.  At least, he better not be, because he needs to be the one to kill Cersei.  Yeah, I know, TV Jaime is nowhere near the person that Book Jaime was slowly on the path to starting to become, but he's still my favorite, and while I'm sure he'll die in the end, I want him to take that bitch out first.

14 hours ago, SeanC said:

In terms of the larger strategic picture, though, the show’s continued acting like Dany should refrain from nuking the Red Keep makes no sense.  She could do that without burning the rest of the city, and KL would surrender immediately afterward.

There are probably hundreds of innocent servants who work in and around the Red Keep.  Torching it would kill them as well as Cersei and her minions.

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

There are probably hundreds of innocent servants who work in and around the Red Keep.  Torching it would kill them as well as Cersei and her minions.

Tons of people would die of starvation caused by laying siege to King's Landing, which is what Tyrion wants to do.  You can't conquer without some casualties.

Edited August 7, 2017 by SeanC

[Uncle JUICE]

10 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

 

There are probably hundreds of innocent servants who work in and around the Red Keep.  Torching it would kill them as well as Cersei and her minions.

 

4 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Tons of people would die of starvation caused by laying siege to King's Landing, which is what Tyrion wants to do.  You can't conquer without some casualties.

Likes to both here. Yup, it sucks that innocent people will die because of war...much better Cersei's servants than yours, if you're Dany. Her patience with waiting around to take over King's Landing and take the throne will wear thin, this excuse not to do it will start to, as well. 

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, Enigma X said:

When Brienne and Arya were jousting, what I saw in Sansa's eyes in the realization that Arya is a killer and has changed. I don't mean this in a judgmental way. I just think the whole "list" thing was becoming more and more real to Sansa and that her little sister is the real deal. I honestly think she was experiencing regret, fear, and sadness for Arya all at once.

The world is built by killers, your Father was a killer, your brother's a killer and now her sister is a killer.

And she may be happy ( thankful )of the things she does later.

Edited August 7, 2017 by GrailKing

[domina89]

2 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I am afraid Sansa's precise words regarding Jon's likely reaction to reuniting with Arya carried real meaning.

That's an interesting assessment.  I thought it was an odd choice of words as well.  It certainly felt rather foreboding...

I thought this was a solid episode, but not really in my top 5.  I do like the way the episodes feel like they are building more and more to some kind of crescendo, though.

I am reserving my judgement with Jon/Dany until we are further along in their relationship, but it puzzles me that, outside of GOT, Kit and Emilia have mountains of chemistry (in my opinion) but on screen I haven't really felt it.  Usually actor chemistry translates to the characters and maybe it still will- obviously it already has for some people.  I do find myself rooting more and more for these two, but not necessarily in a romantic way.  I think they could potentially work well together and compliment each other in the right ways.  I liked that Dany asked Jon for his advice (despite her outward appearance of not seeing him as an equal) and actually listened to him... although I didn't like the dark looks Tyrion was shooting in Jon's direction during that moment.

Davos for the win!  Loved all his moments in this episode.  He and Jon make a great team.

Count me as one of those who are done with Cersei/Jaime and the King's Landing plot.  We have bigger fish to fry now... let's just move along PLEASE.

I do, however, think it would be interesting if Jaime became Dany's prisoner and Tyrion were faced with the same dilemma Jaime faced when Tyrion was Cersei's prisoner.  Save my brother or displease the person I love/respect the most?  

[ParadoxLost]

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Tons of people would die of starvation caused by laying siege to King's Landing, which is what Tyrion wants to do.  You can't conquer without some casualties.

Frankly, I think Tyrion is concerned about bringing the Lords in line enough that they don't feel the need to revolt once Dany is installed as the Queen which comes down to Dany now destroying their wealth and power bases.  The innocent starving in KL while the Lords hoard the food.  isn't such a problem to him.  I think he's probably counting on the innocent to turn on their Lords when they get hungry enough and do the dirty work for them.

I think Jon cares more about the masses being caught in the crossfire., 

[proserpina65]

14 hours ago, screamin said:

Kind of annoyingly ridiculous that all that heavy gold in slow wagons made it all the way to King's Landing before the swift-footed Dothraki and the freakin' flying dragon managed to catch up to the Lannister army...

Clearly getting the gold to KL was the priority.  Should've been getting the food there, but you know the Lannisters . . .

[Constantinople]

41 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Well this isn't the era of Napoleon represented here. This is England against France in the 14th and 15th centuries.  Think Agincourt, Crecy, Poitiers. Yes the French Resistence fighters were brave during WWII but again it's the time period.  For the record I get why France surrendered. WWI was fought in their territory and they still bore the physical and emotional scars. They knew what war meant to the landscape and the people.

But again this is medieval Western Europe, lets stick to that.

English histories tend to focus more on the English victories during the Hundred Years War rather than their defeats, of which there were many.

And England lost the Hundred Years War

[Drogo]

3 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Clearly getting the gold to KL was the priority.  Should've been getting the food there, but you know the Lannisters . . .

[Oscirus]

3 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

 

I don't think I can agree with either of those interpretations.  I think Tyrion's giving the Unsullied the information about the secret back-door into Casterly Rock demonstrates clearly where his loyalties lie and the extant to which he will go to serve her.  Dany's accusation was unjust and unworthy of her.  It shows she's not perfect and that how badly this string of losses has demoralized her. Tyrion's reaction to watching the battle was, I think, the natural horror at seeing the dragons in combat for the first time -- seeing men burned alive is horrible even if they ARE on the "other" side and in Tyrion's case the men of the "other" side are wearing his family's colors.  And then he spotted Jaime and he can't help but not want to watch his only brother burned alive.

I pretty much think that Tyrion's biggest problem is lack of information.  He had no way of knowing that Euron was such a fast ship builder and that Oleana lost all her banner men.  That being said, once he did learn about Euron he failed to take proper measures. He should definitely get the blame for that.

[KungFuBunny]

The gold was there on the fields too right?

I can't wait to see Cersei's face when she has nothing for the Iron Bank rep. Not even enough to cover the interest. I guess she's going to have to kill him to buy some time.

Was it Bronn or Dickon that pushes Jaime into the water?

Too bad Danerys couldn't save some of the wheat for her Unsullied at Casterly Rock.

[Pogojoco]

7 hours ago, anamika said:

When it comes to Sansa, it's really hard to tell what's going on with the character. Poor acting does not help.

https://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/08/game-of-thrones-s07e04-sansas-expression-watching-brienne-arya-explained/

This was the same problem last season as well. Sophie Turner needs to do a better job at conveying whatever it is she is supposed to feel. Or we will have 10 pages of discussion as to whether she is annoyed, jealous, proud, delighted, amazed, shocked, worried or angry - those are all the emotions people here think she was expressing when seeing Arya interact with Brienne. 

According to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X17pjukf8rA

Sansa is worried because Arya nearly beat a warrior like Brienne and is good at killing people. Why she should be worried about that, I have no idea. Does she think Arya is going to come after her?

I actually wondered if a line like "Was I ever on your list?" from Sansa to Arya, even as a joke, wouldn't have been out of order. 

[DarkRaichu]

4 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

The gold was there on the fields too right?

No the gold was back in KL per old Turly.  Also Iron Bank rep already confirmed that Cersei paid her debt.  He even commented how some in Braavos would miss the loan interest they were getting from Lannister

Edited August 7, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[Pogojoco]

3 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

The gold was there on the fields too right?

I can't wait to see Cersei's face when she has nothing for the Iron Bank rep. Not even enough to cover the interest. I guess she's going to have to kill him to buy some time.

Was it Bronn or Dickon that pushes Jaime into the water?

Too bad Danerys couldn't save some of the wheat for her Unsullied at Casterly Rock.

The gold is very specifically stated to be already secured at King's Landing. Randyll Tarly says so. 

Bronn is the pusher, apparently.

And yes, Dany burned the food. That is probably going to be a problem. 

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, domina89 said:

That's an interesting assessment.  I thought it was an odd choice of words as well.  It certainly felt rather foreboding...

I thought this was a solid episode, but not really in my top 5.  I do like the way the episodes feel like they are building more and more to some kind of crescendo, though.

I am reserving my judgement with Jon/Dany until we are further along in their relationship, but it puzzles me that, outside of GOT, Kit and Emilia have mountains of chemistry (in my opinion) but on screen I haven't really felt it.  Usually actor chemistry translates to the characters and maybe it still will- obviously it already has for some people.  I do find myself rooting more and more for these two, but not necessarily in a romantic way.  I think they could potentially work well together and compliment each other in the right ways.  I liked that Dany asked Jon for his advice (despite her outward appearance of not seeing him as an equal) and actually listened to him... although I didn't like the dark looks Tyrion was shooting in Jon's direction during that moment.

Davos for the win!  Loved all his moments in this episode.  He and Jon make a great team.

Count me as one of those who are done with Cersei/Jaime and the King's Landing plot.  We have bigger fish to fry now... let's just move along PLEASE.

I do, however, think it would be interesting if Jaime became Dany's prisoner and Tyrion were faced with the same dilemma Jaime faced when Tyrion was Cersei's prisoner.  Save my brother or displease the person I love/respect the most?  

I like that they are doing a slow burn on the chemistry front with Jon and Dany.  It only makes sense.   They are two people with very different experiences and outlooks, brought together under tumultuous circumstances after each of them has undergone incredible challenges to find themselves in this place together -- with very different priorities and semi juxtaposed goals.  I am NOT referring to romantic chemistry, although last night's episode gave significant indications that is likely where we're headed.  I'm disappointed at that idea, simply because I would have loved for a show that has provided so many unexpected deaths and has so much detail and so many potential plot twists I don't want to see them go down a conventional idea with these two characters -- oh, let's make the male and female a love story.  I wanted it in book one or two.  Now I'd like to see them insure Cersei's map needs some serious touchups.

The only reason I considered Jamie might be in jeopardy last night was Tyrion standing there on the hillside, heart in his throat -- clearly wanting a victory for Dany, but not wanting his brother's demise.  I do agree, Jamie is once more slated for captivity.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 minutes ago, Pogojoco said:

The gold is very specifically stated to be already secured at King's Landing. Randyll Tarly says so. 

But Cersei says that Jaime is personally overseeing it's transport to KL.  And we saw Jaime open at least one of the wagons full of gold.  I don't see how the gold is already there?

[Pogojoco]

Just now, FnkyChkn34 said:

But Cersei says that Jaime is personally overseeing it's transport to KL.  And we saw Jaime open at least one of the wagons full of gold.  I don't see how the gold is already there?

Tarly said so. 

[Oscirus]

12 minutes ago, Pogojoco said:

The gold is very specifically stated to be already secured at King's Landing. Randyll Tarly says so. 

Bronn is the pusher, apparently.

And yes, Dany burned the food. That is probably going to be a problem. 

For Dany. Dany burning the food will likely be used to rile the people against Dany even more.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Oscirus