S07.E04: The Spoils of War

[GrailKing]

Any one laying odds on when Bronn turns cloak or dies?

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

I think Sansa looked frightened, having realized that Arya really wasn't kidding about the list of people she wanted to kill, and realized it was quite credible she HAD killed people on that list, and worried what had happened to her to turn her into that adept killer.

That was exactly my thought. I took Sansa's expression is a bit of awe and lot of worry about what has happened to Arya to cause her to be so potentially lethal. 

[screamin]

3 minutes ago, Francie said:

Isn't Davos married on the show? He seems to be awfully close to crossing the line to flirting with Missandei. 

He's mentioned his son, but IIRC not his wife. Maybe they're setting him up to be a widower and prospective sperm donor for Missandei and Grey Worm.

[Francie]

13 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

You clearly didn't listen to what Jon told her. He told her not to raze the cities. He didn't say not to attack soldiers because that would be a dumb thing for him to say when he has killed many soldiers. Taking your rationale, he should have never fought Ramsay for Winterfell because the "common people" in Ramsay's army were just doing what they were told and Jon was just screaming, "it's mine, it's mine." This leaves no one for you to root for in the show, not even Cersei because she is the worse.

 

2 minutes ago, doram said:

7 seasons into this show and soldiers being killed in wartime is (suddenly) a problem, then you're probably watching the wrong show. 

My heart weeps with joy at how many people wanted Jamie to die. 

 

He told her not to use her dragons, and yes while the context was her desire to destroy King's Landing, the point still remains.  Using dragons is like using napalm or a nuclear bomb. She's not going to be well-received, regardless of whether she's targeting a castle and razing a city or destroying an army compiled of the very citizens she declares herself to be the protector of. 

This battle quite possibly will be her high point in conquering Westeros.  If she burns any more food, she'll be ruling over ashes and bones.  

I have a strong feeling that once the series end, many viewers will have a different opinion on re-watch of this episode. 

[Pogojoco]

1 minute ago, screamin said:

He's mentioned his son, but IIRC not his wife. Maybe they're setting him up to be a widower and prospective sperm donor for Missandei and Grey Worm.

I think he is married in the show- when Missendei mentions there is no marriage in her country, he says that is sounds liberating. I took that to mean he could openly flirt with her there.

[Francie]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

 

 

He told her not to use her dragons, and yes while the context was her desire to destroy King's Landing, the point still remains.  Using dragons is like using napalm or a nuclear bomb. And she's on the offensive, attempting to conquer a land, which is a very different situation than what Jon was in when facing the Battle of the Bastards. She's not going to be well-received, regardless of whether she's targeting a castle and razing a city or destroying an army compiled of the very citizens she declares herself to be the protector of. 

This battle quite possibly will be her high point in conquering Westeros.  If she burns any more food, she'll be ruling over ashes and bones.  

I have a strong feeling that once the series end, many viewers will have a different opinion on re-watch of this episode. 

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

He told her not to use her dragons

That is not what Jon said. You need to rewatch that scene or maybe you interpret it the way that you want to.

[Francie]

2 minutes ago, Pogojoco said:

I think he is married in the show- when Missendei mentions there is no marriage in her country, he says that is sounds liberating. I took that to mean he could openly flirt with her there.

 

4 minutes ago, screamin said:

He's mentioned his son, but IIRC not his wife. Maybe they're setting him up to be a widower and prospective sperm donor for Missandei and Grey Worm.

I thought perhaps he mentioned a wife back when he was delivering Melisandre to deliver the shadow baby? 

Maybe he is a widower now. He certainly hasn't been home to visit a wife in years. 

[Oscirus]

9 minutes ago, Francie said:

Isn't Davos married on the show? He seems to be awfully close to crossing the line to flirting with Missandei. 

If he is, he hasn't seen his wife in so long that he might as well not be.

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

That is not what Jon said. You need to rewatch that scene or maybe you interpret it the way that you want to.

Not in those exact words, but he pretty much told her not to use her dragons otherwise she'd be no better than the people currently sitting on the iron throne.

[UNOSEZ]

I just can't wait for the Jon/Arya reunion... It better have 183% of the feels and even tho sansa already knows it I kinda want it to make her more jealous/uncomfortable when it comes to arya.. I also can't wait to see Jon and whoever else's face when arya breaks down what she's been up too... Like slaughtering the freys...  Lord Eddard would be so proud

[screamin]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

If he is, he hasn't seen his wife in so long that he might as well not be.

That's not how I picture Davos. In the books, he certainly yearns to go back to his wife.

[Oscirus]

Just now, screamin said:

That's not how I picture Davos. In the books, he certainly yearns to go back to his wife.

Show is the show and the books are the books. He's had ample opportunities to go back , write her or anything. Yet the show has not shown us anything to indicate that he's even remotely thinking about his wife.

[benteen]

11 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Any one laying odds on when Bronn turns cloak or dies?

I always thought Bronn, once he saw the dragons, would be the first one in Westeros to bend the knee.  He knows when to go over to the winning side.

[Lemuria]

Well, Drogon was certainly ticked.  He didn't just burn the ballista; he smashed everything around it to splinters with his tail!

I thought the smartest "people" at the battle were those three horses:  "Hey, stupid humans.  We didn't sign up for a freaking dragon.  We're out of here!"

 

Quote

Even Jon seems focused on the 1%.  I doubt most people would care about the Red Keep being torched than the commoners who make up the Lannister army

The Red Keep is not just the personal quarters of the royal family, its also the seat of government.  It would take a great many 99%-ers it takes to keep something like that running.  There are probably hundreds (if not more) of commoners in the Red Keep.  Shouldn't they count?  And it was take a massive amount of fire to take the Red Keep down.  Something like that, once started, is very hard to control.  If you look at the drawings of the Red Keep, the side that goes towards the city seems to have a ton of vegetation, which loves to burn and which would bring the fire right to the rest of the city.

The difference is that while soldiers of course have families, as do civilians, they still chose to join the army of their respective House and as soldiers, they have an expectation that they may be called on to kill others--possibly including civilians--or to die in battle.  Westeros is a harsh place and I think people will understand more using extreme force against an opponent's army than against a city's civilian population.

 

Quote

Nice call back to the Jon-Mance conversation - isn't their survival more important than your pride? Jon finds himself on the other end of that conversation.

I think it can also be flipped back at Dany.  We have a term in our legal system for what she's trying to do:  It's called extortion.  She's accusing him of letting his pride get in the way of helping the North--yet she indicates that she is willing to let the North (and possibly a lot more of Westeros) fall to white walkers if he doesn't give her what she wants.  Pot, meet kettle.

[Alapaki]

I thought the Field of Fire scene was awesome.  But . . . . . 

Dany could've, literally, completely destroyed that entire army in 3 passes, tops.  Hell, they'd been accommodating enough to arrange themselves in a nice straight line.  A few flanking runs over them and they're all dead.

So why in the world allow her Dothraki to lead and get entangled with the enemy Army thus limiting the area where she could use her Dragon? (I'm assuming here that unlike Ramsey, Dany would want to avoid catching her own forces with literal "friendly fire").

[Minneapple]

Bronn is a mercenary so he'll go to whoever gives him the most money. 

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

If he is, he hasn't seen his wife in so long that he might as well not be.

Not in those exact words, but he pretty much told her not to use her dragons otherwise she'd be no better than the people currently sitting on the iron throne.

He said "if you use them to melt castles and burn cities, then you are no different, you are just more of the same." I am going to conclude that some people are just interpreting Jon's words the way they want to and leave it at that.

[screamin]

4 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Show is the show and the books are the books. He's had ample opportunities to go back , write her or anything. Yet the show has not shown us anything to indicate that he's even remotely thinking about his wife.

Eh, even on the show, Davos gives the impression of being a family-oriented kind of guy. He got into service with Stannis to help his son rise in rank, he got into a close relationship with Shireen he explicitly identified as paternal love. The idea that he has a bereaved wife at home, mother of that now-dead son, who he's neglecting and now cheerfully contemplating cheating on, adds a sleazy note that to me seems out of character with the man he's portrayed as being till now.

Edited August 7, 2017 by screamin

[Paradigm14]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

Another thing, why is Pod still incompetent with his sword? If he's been practicing with Brienne since season 5, he should be alot better then what we saw on screen. Either that or Brienne's a shit teacher.

I actually think it will be a lot like Arya. He'll finally improve when it really counts.

[benteen]

Just a possible speculation I'll put into spoilers...

Spoiler

I would have thought the writers would have Cersei hire The Second Sons, since that would mean Daario betraying Dany.

[lucindabelle]

Seemed  little unrealistic that the soldiers didn't immediately panic and run.

 

DO NOT HURT OR KILL DRAGONS FUCKING SHOW. 

Seriously if even one dragon is killed I'm out for good and forever. So sick of this- it's just like the death of Oberyn again and it's getting fucking predictable.

[Oscirus]

Just now, SimoneS said:

He said "if you use them to melt castles and burn cities, then you are no different, you are just more of the same." I am going to conclude that some people are just interpreting Jon's words the way they want to and leave it at that.

Why do you think Jon gives a damn about castles and cities being burned?   His answer to the question speaks for itself. If he was ok with her using dragons, why even bring that up?

[benteen]

1 minute ago, screamin said:

Eh, even on the show, Davos gives the impression of being a family-oriented kind of guy. He got into service with Stannis to help his son rise in rank, he got into a close relationship with Shireen he explicitly identified as paternal love. The idea that he has a bereaved wife at home, mother of that now-dead son, who he's neglecting and now cheerfully contemplating cheating on, adds a sleazy note that to me seems out of character with the man he's portrayed as being till now.

Has he mentioned his wife on the show? 

I know he's mentioned in the books that he has been unfaithful to his wife in the past although I assumed this was during his old smuggling days.

[rmontro]

22 minutes ago, Francie said:

Isn't Davos married on the show? He seems to be awfully close to crossing the line to flirting with Missandei. 

Nothing wrong with appreciating the beauty of an attractive woman.  But maybe he sees her as more of a Shireen substitute.

[Macbeth]

56 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The Dothrakis are more like the Mongols than Apaches. The Mongols were expert horsemen who used scimitars, bow and arrows, and spears.

I always associated the Dothrakis with the Mongols.  But in this case they are definitely the Apaches.  When 3 of the Dothrakis jumped up onto their saddles - there were a few bars of music that was the Indians' theme music in old Westerns.  That was masterful - very subtle - but the point was made.   IMO

[that one guy]

1 hour ago, vesperholly said:

Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, dragon battle MVP.

We haven't seen him fight enough. I had forgotten what an epic badass he is. Wounded Drogon, took out a bunch of Dothraki, tackled Jaime in the nick of time before he got cooked - nobody could claim he hasn't earned a damn castle at this point.

The battle was great, although I couldn't help but think Dany could use some better military advice. The location for the ambush wasn't well selected - the fact that the Lannister troops had been able to form up against the river at all made it harder than it had to be - had the Dothraki caught them on the march, the dragon wouldn't even have been necessary. "Only a fool would face the Dothraki on an open field" as Robert Baratheon said.  But as it was, the horselords lost men charging at formations of spears and shields, when the line had already been breached elswhere. Why not charge through the gap and hit the Lannisters from behind?

Still, it was an ass kicking. Dany figured out that not all of her enemies were in the Red Keep. So far this season has been the middle part of a game of chess. Cersei started out with less material, Dany still had a queen in play (Drogon) and got overconfident. Cersei still has a pair of rooks, and quickly eliminated Dany's bishops. But she left a key piece undefended in Jaime, and has lost a key piece. I assume he'll be taken prisoner, because that's the dramatically most interesting choice.

Speaking of epic badasses, Bron, the Hound, Brienne and Jon were pretty much the remaining elite fighters (Tormund's not bad, either). Arya's performance sparring against Brienne pretty much puts her in that company now. That's a pretty fast transformation, although the months she spent learning to fight blind probably helped her spatial awareness etc a great deal. "You need better guards" was probably my favorite line of the night, along with "Chaos is a ladder."

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, benteen said:

Just a possible speculation I'll put into spoilers...

  Reveal hidden contents

I would have thought the writers would have Cersei hire The Second Sons, since that would mean Daario betraying Dany.

That would be very interesting. But would Cersei even use them? She has to know that they worked for Dany at one point.

[Constantinople]

8 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

The Red Keep is not just the personal quarters of the royal family, its also the seat of government.  It would take a great many 99%-ers it takes to keep something like that running.  There are probably hundreds (if not more) of commoners in the Red Keep.  Shouldn't they count?  And it was take a massive amount of fire to take the Red Keep down.  Something like that, once started, is very hard to control.  If you look at the drawings of the Red Keep, the side that goes towards the city seems to have a ton of vegetation, which loves to burn and which would bring the fire right to the rest of the city.

The difference is that while soldiers of course have families, as do civilians, they still chose to join the army of their respective House and as soldiers, they have an expectation that they may be called on to kill others--possibly including civilians--or to die in battle.  Westeros is a harsh place and I think people will understand more using extreme force against an opponent's army than against a city's civilian population.

The soldiers in the armies don't have any choice.  This is the Middle Ages, not the 21st century.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Constantinople

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Francie said:

He told her not to use her dragons, and yes while the context was her desire to destroy King's Landing, the point still remains.  Using dragons is like using napalm or a nuclear bomb. She's not going to be well-received, regardless of whether she's targeting a castle and razing a city or destroying an army compiled of the very citizens she declares herself to be the protector of. 

This battle quite possibly will be her high point in conquering Westeros.  If she burns any more food, she'll be ruling over ashes and bones.  

I have a strong feeling that once the series end, many viewers will have a different opinion on re-watch of this episode. 

Cersei nuked the Sept of Baelor and nobody seems to care, so I think that concern is rather overrated.

Aegon used his dragons to conquer the Seven Kingdoms and did just fine.  The idea that Dany using the dragons is some kind of red line makes little sense.

And yes, while dying by dragonfire sucks, so does dying of a dismembering wound on the battlefield delivered via sword or halberd, or and arrow through the chest, or slowly of starvation.  Dany has to actually win the throne and defeat her enemies before she can rule the Seven Kingdoms.

[benteen]

2 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

That would be very interesting. But would Cersei even use them? She has to know that they worked for Dany at one point.

That is true.  TV Cersei is surprisingly competent.

[screamin]

6 minutes ago, benteen said:

Just a possible speculation I'll put into spoilers...

  Reveal hidden contents

I would have thought the writers would have Cersei hire The Second Sons, since that would mean Daario betraying Dany.

The man you mention is a ruler himself now...I doubt Cersei has enough money to tempt him away.

[Oscirus]

Just now, doram said:

Well, of course he'd look like a bad-ass with all that plot armour he wore. 

Considering that Dany rode a dragon saddle less and held on to him with all the moves he did and Jamie was taking on Dothraki soldiers fighting with one hand, I'd say that all the main players in that battle got a healthy dose of plot armor.

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, Francie said:

Perhaps by not having her dragon burn it all. 

I just don't see how it was possible to save the food.  Outside of x-ray vision, how would they know which wagons had food?  How would they know if any of the wagons contained food at all?  Let's go hypothetical and say that someone made the call to sacrifice lives by searching the wagons first.  So in the chaos of flying arrows, swords, and fire, people are searching and somehow marking which wagons have food within.  There would have been a lot more Dothraki casualties due to the thorough searching of the wagons, but let's say the food is somehow preserved.  They are very near King's Landing.  Wagons move much slower than horses.  If you could talk Dothraki into driving those food wagons, they would be easily overtaken by KL reinforcements.  Outside of Dany and Drogon escorting and guarding these food wagons home, I don't see any food arriving in Dragonstone.

[QuantumMechanic]

12 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

Dany could've, literally, completely destroyed that entire army in 3 passes, tops.  Hell, they'd been accommodating enough to arrange themselves in a nice straight line.  A few flanking runs over them and they're all dead.

Yeah.  Someone needs to read about enfilade fire.

[dbell1]

A thought I had about Bran. When he broke from his Three Eyed Raven training, people he loved died. Hodor, the original Raven, the children of the forest, and even Summer. Bran found out he was the reason Hodor "hodor'd" himself. He let the Night King touch him and caused all kinds of chaos in the sacred place.

He might be deliberately choosing to wall off his emotions to become the Raven and try and save his family. Because when he tries to stay Brandon Stark, people he cares for die because of him and his gift.

To be the Raven, he can't stay a Stark.

Edited August 7, 2017 by dbell1

[Alapaki]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

Aegon used his dragons to conquer the Seven Kingdoms and did just fine.  The idea that Dany using the dragons is some kind of red line makes little sense.

Not to mention the legend of Harrenhal.

I get that they don't want to write-off Cersei right now.  But I also think this dispute over tactics is a vehicle to create a rift between Dany and Tyrion/Varys.  It seem pretty clear to me that Varys, at least, is going to break with/from Dany.  I'd bet Tyrion does too.  In my mind, that raises the odds of Dany not making it to the end of the series. 

[Colorful Mess]

13 minutes ago, sumiregusa said:

They want us to ship Jon/Dany

Nope, not gonna happen in this household. Forcing this relationship down our throats is a great way to make me hate it. I have zero confidence in D&D's ability to write romance, and chemistry between them only comes about because its DESTINY (yuck). Jon Snow playing archaeologist for Dany in the cave was comical. The whole time I was wondering "damn, it's great that those children of the forest drew such realistic images of the white walkers so that Jon could conveniently use them to bolster his arguments." Oh, and I could care less about the incest.

[magdalene]

I think there is a decent chance Bronn will outlive them all and get his castle and lots of gold when all is said and done.

[Lemuria]

Quote

The soldiers in the armies don't have any choice.  This is the Middle Ages, not the 21st century.

There's truth in that--though even in the Middle Ages, soldiers have been known to desert at the very least (and we have a prime example in the series itself) or mutiny at the very most--but they do have a choice about joining the military in the first place.  

[screamin]

4 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I just don't see how it was possible to save the food.  Outside of x-ray vision, how would they know which wagons had food?  How would they know if any of the wagons contained food at all?  Let's go hypothetical and say that someone made the call to sacrifice lives by searching the wagons first.  So in the chaos of flying arrows, swords, and fire, people are searching and somehow marking which wagons have food within.  There would have been a lot more Dothraki casualties due to the thorough searching of the wagons, but let's say the food is somehow preserved.  They are very near King's Landing.  Wagons move much slower than horses.  If you could talk Dothraki into driving those food wagons, they would be easily overtaken by KL reinforcements.  Outside of Dany and Drogon escorting and guarding these food wagons home, I don't see any food arriving in Dragonstone.

I think that could have been avoided by simply not targeting the wagons with fire...use the dragons only on the soldiers who so obligingly lined up for them. Yes, some of the wagons would have caught anyway, but it seemed Dany deliberately targeted the wagons in preference to the soldiers at some points in the battle...which, considering that food will soon be as precious as gold when winter closes down, is a bit shortsighted.

As for Dany escorting the wagons - well, why not? This is food for the subjects she's so concerned about, isn't it? 

Edited August 7, 2017 by screamin

[Oscirus]

Just now, magdalene said:

I think there is a decent chance Bronn will outlive them all and get his castle and lots of gold when all is said and done.

Bronn for the iron throne.  

[that one guy]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

Aegon used his dragons to conquer the Seven Kingdoms and did just fine.  The idea that Dany using the dragons is some kind of red line makes little sense.

I think the issue is that medieval cities don't have modern fire departments with pressurized water hoses etc. Using Dragons against any target in King's Landing is likely to burn down a great portion of the city. Dany wants to take it over, not burn it down. Using a dragon in the field isn't quite the same thing, she used it against a purely military target, and burn a much smaller number of people than Tyrion did on the Blackwater. Actually, mostly Drogon was used for the fear he inspired, he wasn't all that useful after punching a few holes in the Lannister lines, except as a psychological weapon. It wasn't explicitly stated, but the reason for this raid was that Jaime was transporting the bulk of the Reach's food stores by wagon train, and Dany mentioned earlier in the episode that she didn't have enough food to feed the Dothraki on Dragonstone. So she needed to capture the food, not burn it up. That's why the Dothraki did the bulk of the fighting rather than Dany just incinerating everything. They were there first and foremost to resupply.

[Francie]

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Cersei nuked the Sept of Baelor and nobody seems to care, so I think that concern is rather overrated.

Aegon used his dragons to conquer the Seven Kingdoms and did just fine.  The idea that Dany using the dragons is some kind of red line makes little sense.

And yes, while dying by dragonfire sucks, so does dying of a dismembering wound on the battlefield delivered via sword or halberd, or and arrow through the chest, or slowly of starvation.  Dany has to actually win the throne and defeat her enemies before she can rule the Seven Kingdoms.

Here's the important distinction that has yet to be addressed by anyone in support of Dany -- her "enemies" are the very people she wants to rule.

She's not defending anyone. She's not Robb Stark, frantic for the return of his father and sisters.  She's not Jon Snow who is called into battle by Ramsey Bolton. She's offensively attacking. She's come into a country that she hasn't set foot in since she was a baby, all because of some claimed birthright. And she's killing masses of its citizens. In her own mind, her citizens. 

She believes herself entitled to rule Westeros, and to her that justifies her killing any Westerosi who have a different opinion. She is a foreign invading conquerer, no different than Aegon 300 years ago.  

She hasn't, at any point in time, taken a moment to ask herself how she's going to feed all these people. The North has underharvested. The Riverlands have been wasted for years.  The Stormlands had their population affected by all the wars their liege lords, Renly and Stannis, has had them fight. Now the Reach's food supply has been devastated.  How exactly does Daenerys plan to feed them? Or does she just intend to sit her ass on the throne, and then figure it out. Because that worked oh so well in Astapor and Mereen.  At the rate she's going, she will rule over ashes and bones, just like she's been repeatedly warned. 

At some point before the end of the series, I hope she does have her Colonel Nicholson moment. Or her Julia Roberts in My Best Friend's Wedding moment.  That moment where she realizes, "Oh shit, what have I done? I've been the bad guy all along?" That's the best possible outcome for her.  

[Pogojoco]

2 minutes ago, doram said:

Well, Aegon was a dude. 

Cersei might be a woman but she's also Evil and Evil women are allowed to be powerful in stereotypically masculine ways. 

Daenerys is a Good Woman and it's not acceptable that she's wielding this kind of power that is reserved for men, or a sign of being Evil.

Ergo - we wonder/worry that Daenerys is on a Path to Evil.

Misogyny 101. 

Aegon had a couple of sister-wives that helped. And I'm not sure how beloved he was when it first happened. 

I don't think all issues viewers may have about Dany or Cersei could be just written off as misogyny. 

[SeanC]

Just now, Francie said:

Here's the important distinction that has yet to be addressed by anyone in support of Dany -- her "enemies" are the very people she wants to rule.

Well, no, her enemies are the people claiming to rule the people she wants to rule.

[Hecate7]

19 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

The soldiers in the armies don't have any choice.  This is the Middle Ages, not the 21st century.

They are still the opposing army. Nobody ever won a war by not fighting the enemy.

[MadMouse]

Just now, Francie said:

Here's the important distinction that has yet to be addressed by anyone in support of Dany -- her "enemies" are the very people she wants to rule.

She's not defending anyone. She's not Robb Stark, frantic for the return of his father and sisters.  She's not Jon Snow who is called into battle by Ramsey Bolton. She's offensively attacking. She's come into a country that she hasn't set foot in since she was a baby, all because of some claimed birthright. And she's killing masses of its citizens. In her own mind, her citizens. 

She believes herself entitled to rule Westeros, and to her that justifies her killing any Westerosi who have a different opinion. She is a foreign invading conquerer, no different than Aegon 300 years ago.  

She hasn't, at any point in time, taken a moment to ask herself how she's going to feed all these people. The North has underharvested. The Riverlands have been wasted for years.  The Stormlands had their population affected by all the wars their liege lords, Renly and Stannis, has had them fight. Now the Reach's food supply has been devastated.  How exactly does Daenerys plan to feed them? Or does she just intend to sit her ass on the throne, and then figure it out. Because that worked oh so well in Astapor and Mereen.  At the rate she's going, she will rule over ashes and bones, just like she's been repeatedly warned. 

At some point before the end of the series, I hope she does have her Colonel Nicholson moment. Or her Julia Roberts in My Best Friend's Wedding moment.  That moment where she realizes, "Oh shit, what have I done? I've been the bad guy all along?" That's the best possible outcome for her.  

 

And Aegon burned the lords who didn't bend the knee, while forging his kingdom. If you're a lord who's either too stupid or proud to not save yourself when faced with a dragon rider you deserve your fate.

[Francie]

5 minutes ago, doram said:

Well, Aegon was a dude. 

Cersei might be a woman but she's also Evil and Evil women are allowed to be powerful in stereotypically masculine ways. 

Daenerys is a Good Woman and it's not acceptable that she's wielding this kind of power that is reserved for men, or a sign of being Evil.

Ergo - we wonder/worry that Daenerys is on a Path to Evil.

Misogyny 101. 

Holding a woman up to a standard of humanity is not misogyny. Frankly, it's insulting to those who want women to have qual rights to play such a card. 

Dany doesn't get a pass because she's a woman. 

[Constantinople]

Dickon Tarly said he didn't know fighting would smell so much and Bronn asked if he didn't know men shit themselves when thety die.  Reminded me of this quote from Robert in S1:

 

Robert Baratheon : Quick one. Lucky for you. Mine was some Tarly boy at the Battle of Summerhall. My horse took an arrow so I was on foot, slogging through the mud. He came running at me, this dumb high-born lad, thinking he could end the rebellion with the single swing of his sword. I knocked him down with the hammer. Gods, I was strong then. Caved in his breastplate. Probably shattered every rib he had. Stood over him, hammer in the air. Right before I brought it down he shouted, "Wait ! Wait." They never tell you how they all shit themselves. They don't put that part in the songs

[Tesla]

I get Jon's explanation of why he didn't kill Theon on sight, but at the very least he should have an instant solid throat punch coming his way.  Come on, Jon. ?