S07.E03: The Queen's Justice

[FormerMod-a1]

4 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

I was under the impression that Dragonstone was a dark, foreboding place.  There sure seem to be a lot of beautiful views and bluffs in the immediate vicinity though. 

He got lucky and everyone (including Tyrion himself) said they'd have told Jon not to go, so it's not like she was the lone voice against this little trip.  Besides, there's no way Jon's current forces can withstand a blitz from a bunch of undead who won't care about getting hacked to pieces so he has no way of getting close enough to the white walkers to actually use his new weapons.  He needs the dragons and manpower for humanity's big stand and there's no way he's getting that right now.

But Tyrion also said that it shows how important it must be, how it helped him (tyrion) believe that Jon is right about the WW and army of the dead, because Jon came despite all that.

[anamika]

13 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

He got lucky and everyone (including Tyrion himself) said they'd have told Jon not to go, so it's not like she was the lone voice against this little trip.  Besides, there's no way Jon's current forces can withstand a blitz from a bunch of undead who won't care about getting hacked to pieces so he has no way of getting close enough to the white walkers to actually use his new weapons.  He needs the dragons and manpower for humanity's big stand and there's no way he's getting that right now.

But it worked!! I like how when Jon's decisions are right, he just gets lucky - it's not because he has the right instincts. But Sansa is apparently right, even though she was wrong! Jon trusted in Tyrion's character and went south - and he was right - Tyrion negotiated and bargained and got Dany to agree to Jon mining the dragon glass. And sorry, but are you saying that the dragon glass is worthless? That making dragon glass tipped arrows for those archers training in the yard is useless?

Jon's mission was to get dragon glass, dragon fire and more men. Step one is accomplished. I am sure he will keep trying.  If he had listened to Sansa and stayed in WF, they would have got nothing.

13 minutes ago, Edith said:

Well Sansa was sort of right. Dany told Tyrion to summon Jon to come to DS to bend the knee. He didn't mention any of it in his letter.

And Jon is now a prisoner. Lucky for him Dany it's not Cersei nor a female Joffrey, and if it wasn't for the dragon glass And Tyrion's help, Jon would be stranded in DS until he bend the knee, doing nothing while WW are marching south. 

Jon is busy mining dragon glass. I doubt he wants to leave. He also needs more time to get more stuff from Dany - like dragons and men.   Tyrion negotiated on his behalf and got him a reasonable deal. And yeah, Jon went because he liked Tyrion and trusted in him. He does not know Dany.  And those instincts proved right. Tyrion helped him get the dragon glass.

Edited July 31, 2017 by anamika

[Oscirus]

3 hours ago, doram said:

he showrunners congratulating themselves last episode for making Dany's War Council so female dominated should be shot. All those female allies are captured and dead and suffered defeat via betrayal (Tarly), bad advice (Tyrion) and sheer Gary Stu plot contrivances (Euron) at the hands of men.

You forgot general incompetence ( Yara being surprised by her uncle, Oleana not even realizing that she lost her men). 

[benteen]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

Also to be fair, he is the only competent Ironborn in the series.  Ironborns are pretty useless in general, just looked at how Ramsay killed a dozen of light armored Irobnborn with a small sword and in his nightgown  

They were 50 good killers!  Well, more like 6 not-so-good killers in a rowboat that were chased off by Shirtless Ramsay and some mutts, so...never mind.

[FnkyChkn34]

12 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

I was under the impression that Dragonstone was a dark, foreboding place.  There sure seem to be a lot of beautiful views and bluffs in the immediate vicinity though. 

He got lucky and everyone (including Tyrion himself) said they'd have told Jon not to go, so it's not like she was the lone voice against this little trip.  Besides, there's no way Jon's current forces can withstand a blitz from a bunch of undead who won't care about getting hacked to pieces so he has no way of getting close enough to the white walkers to actually use his new weapons.  He needs the dragons and manpower for humanity's big stand and there's no way he's getting that right now.

Now that Meera's in Winterfell maybe this will be their excuse for Howland Reed to come in and vouch for Bran's story.  You'd think he would want to see his only surviving child after all of this time.

I also thought it was dark and gloomy - and why did I think it was always raining?

As for Jon, he was desperate.  He had to go; he didn't have much of a choice (in his mind).  I think he's smarter than most fans give him credit for, but I did like how Tyrion had to give him a little lesson.  "Just tell me what you want!"

[DarkRaichu]

41 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

-Yara did not take all the ironborn ships, only a fraction.

-Euron can split his armada.

How do you explain Euron's mother ship appearing BOTH when he ambushed Yara AND when he destroyed Grey Worm's ships ???? 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 minute ago, DarkRaichu said:

How do you explain Euron's mother ship appearing BOTH when he ambushed Yara AND when he destroyed Grey Worm's ships ???? 

Easy, actually.  He split right after the ambush.  He would have still be right on the Unsullied's heels anyway, assuming they left Dragonstone at the same time as Yara.

He just had to have taken a different ship to KL with Yara and the Sand Snakes.

Or, he has two (or more) that are that big and grand.

[stillshimpy]

Or why in the world Yara/Asha did not set fire to the ships she was leaving behind.  She was meant to have taken his best ships, for starters, Euron specifically line-dropped the need to build new ones.  But she also should have burned the ones capable of posing any danger to her. 

 

Truly, the stuff with Euron and  the Iron Born fleet is something I'm just trying to hum my way by because it doesn't technically make anything resembling sense and in ways they've gone out of their way to remind us about this season.   Jaime talking about how they are poor and have nothing they haven't stolen, only at the Speed of Plot Necessity, suddenly there are a lot of ships that were so damned sea worthy, Euron Greyjoy has singlehandedly  sliced and diced Dany's forces, when we know Yara/Asha was supposed to have taken his best ships and he would have to rebuild (these are lines in the actual show).  

Euron Plot McGuffin Greyjoy, here to be at service, leveling the playing field.   

[sacrebleu]

Quote

I was under the impression that Dragonstone was a dark, foreboding place. 

Quote

I also thought it was dark and gloomy - and why did I think it was always raining?

 

 

But with the cold front from the worst winter ever moving from the north through Westeros  to the South--  It's moving the perpetual storm system that lingers over Dragonstone over the Narrow Sea. So you can expect some beautiful blue skies for the next few weeks.

This has been your Westerosi Weather report.

[kittykat]

2 hours ago, MrsR said:

Frankly I couldn't give a rats ass about travel arrangements.  I don't watch this show to see travel agents and raven exchanges between the Travelocity guy. Frankly I'm baffled by the obsession with this matter.  Time and space has always been compressed in cinema and TV.

Not one second of precious screen time should be wasted on it. Thank goodness D&D feel the same way.

I've long since abandoned caring about the semantics of travelling on this show especially since those chapters in the books drag everything down.  Jon and Davos making it to Dragonstone  makes some sense (Strong wind and Davos' expert sailing) I don't even mind the Greyjoy Armada jumping places as it keeps the plot moving, jet packs for everyone.  

I just can't get over how many main characters are together now.  It's like S1 days where there were only 4-5 locations each episode and not the 3/4 days where there were 2-3 minutes with each character and 10 different locations.  The scenes have so much more time to develop, for a an episode that was all talk so much happened.

We finally get glimpses of Highgarden and Casterly Rock although I was annoyed they didn't get an animation in the credits (yet Pyke does?), Probably not to spoil Jaime's ambush for the viewers.

Olenna owning Jaime even in death was a fantastic way to end the episode.  I'll miss Diana Rigg but that's how you go out like a boss.  We also finally know Jaime keeps Widows Wail with him.  Good to know if he does finally gain some sense and break with Cersei.

Euron is still a rat bastard but it's clear that Pilou Asbaek is having the time of his life playing the role so I'm enjoying watching him.  I enjoyed him taking in all the reverie of Kings Landing and Jaime pointing out that in one day the crowd can turn on you.  

Which reminds me, when did KL become so pro Cersei considering how beloved Margaery was and that according to the Lannister soldiers, KL has turned into squalor?  

I have to say the best was seeing Jon, Dany and Tyrion together.  Great points made by all and considering Dany is getting her ass handed to her before leaving Dragonstone she made need to bring her dragons out after all.  I know destroying the fleet is to level to playing field but it is interesting to see Tyrion somewhat humbled by his failed strategy, his smarts don't always pay off.  The smartest war tactitian at this point is Grey Worm who had the brain to realize that the Casterly Rock battle was way too easy.

Four to go, this season is flying too fast.

Eta I totally forgot about Sansa and Bran.  One more Stark reunion left to go.  Although it was bittersweet.  Bran be all I was there when you were raped in your childhood home.  Couldn't he have given another example to prove his skill like Ned's execution, or Joffrey or the red wedding? Shouldn't he know where Arya is and tell her she's on her way back? Way to come home and re bond with your sister dude.

Edited July 31, 2017 by kittykat

[anamika]

Euron has taken LF's advice to heart: Fight every battle, everywhere, always.

At this point I think Jaime is beyond redemption on the show. That he continues to support a monster like Cersei makes him irredeemable to me. The only way he gets redemption of any kind is if he dies saving one of his victims or sacrifices himself for the greater good.

Also Brienne deserves much better than him.

Edited July 31, 2017 by anamika

[nodorothyparker]

17 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Quote

I was under the impression that Dragonstone was a dark, foreboding place.  There sure seem to be a lot of beautiful views and bluffs in the immediate vicinity though. 

I also thought it was dark and gloomy - and why did I think it was always raining?

It almost always seemed to be under Stannis.  I was kind of disappointed when they were doing Dragonstone: Makeover Edition in the season premier that we didn't get any of what made Stannis's court so weirdly endearingly gothic except for her pulling down one tattered fiery heart banner.  No piles of burned gods or burned anything.  No fetuses preserved in jars.  Not even a clearly visible assprint on the Painted Table or dried up jars of leeches or anything.  That would have been quite the welcome to Westeros.  Now we just get bright days and picturesque views for the dragons to frolic in.

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, stillshimpy said:

Or why in the world Yara/Asha did not set fire to the ships she was leaving behind.  She was meant to have taken his best ships, for starters, Euron specifically line-dropped the need to build new ones.  But she also should have burned the ones capable of posing any danger to her. 

 

Truly, the stuff with Euron and  the Iron Born fleet is something I'm just trying to hum my way by because it doesn't technically make anything resembling sense and in ways they've gone out of their way to remind us about this season.   Jaime talking about how they are poor and have nothing they haven't stolen, only at the Speed of Plot Necessity, suddenly there are a lot of ships that were so damned sea worthy, Euron Greyjoy has singlehandedly  sliced and diced Dany's forces, when we know Yara/Asha was supposed to have taken his best ships and he would have to rebuild (these are lines in the actual show).  

Euron Plot McGuffin Greyjoy, here to be at service, leveling the playing field.   

Since we know that Euron clearly had the drop on them, why didn't he just destroy the ships at sea? It's not like the unsullied would be good at sea. The hell with trapping them, just end them right there on the spot.

[DarkRaichu]

4 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Easy, actually.  He split right after the ambush.  He would have still be right on the Unsullied's heels anyway, assuming they left Dragonstone at the same time as Yara.

He just had to have taken a different ship to KL with Yara and the Sand Snakes.

Or, he has two (or more) that are that big and grand.

The only way to make this work is for Euron not to lead the navy attack on Casterly Rock.  But Jaime said Euron was taking CR back and Euron's mothership was there.  I do not see Euron as the type who let others drive his mothership or let others have a ship as big as his. 

[Uncle JUICE]

1 hour ago, OhOkayWhat said:

-Yara did not take all the ironborn ships, only a fraction.

-Euron can split his armada.

On the last point yeah, agreed, but they made a big deal out of showing what I took to be Euron's flagship, in the middle of both battles. 

[Edith]

34 minutes ago, anamika said:

 Jon is busy mining dragon glass. I doubt he wants to leave. He also needs more time to get more stuff from Dany - like dragons and men.   Tyrion negotiated on his behalf and got him a reasonable deal. And yeah, Jon went because he liked Tyrion and trusted in him. He does not know Dany.  And those instincts proved right. Tyrion helped him get the dragon glass.

If you read my post again, I said he got lucky because he needed DG and Tyrion was willing to helped him.

If he had only went to get alliances, as was said in the letter Tyrion sent , and trust in him that it wasn't a trap, then he would have been screwed. In fact, he's been allowed to mine the glass only to keep him distracting/busy until he bend

 

Oh and Jon wanted to leave. His own words. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Edith

[FnkyChkn34]

3 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

The only way to make this work is for Euron not to lead the navy attack on Casterly Rock.  But Jaime said Euron was taking CR back and Euron's mothership was there.  I do not see Euron as the type who let others drive his mothership or let others have a ship as big as his. 

Well, in thinking about it further, how long did it take Jaime to get to Highgarden on horseback?  Not like he got there overnight either.  And he and Euron were in Kings Landing at the same time; Euron probably left a day or more before Jaime did as well.  So arguably, they did have a good bit of time to get where they were going.  

[Shimmergloom]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I wanna start with Meera first. Meera is such an unsung hero. Went beyond the Wall, survived, and brought Bran back. This girl has gone through a lot and she is so very rarely mentioned. Meera is too kind and too good for this world.

Yes, she's one of my favorites.  I would love to see Jon/Meera.  I've always thought that Ned would have paired Jon with Meera if things had turned out differently.

 

2 hours ago, anamika said:

So betraying someone is deserving of death, otherwise siding with the enemy is okay? Sansa keeps harping about how Ned was a fool. On what basis is she saying this?

As for the Hound, Tyrion etc. Sansa wanted to punish little children for their fathers siding with the enemy. But she does nothing to LF. So, no idea what she will do to the Hound...

I have no idea what you are saying.  On the one hand you are mad that she's not punishing people for siding with the Lannisters, then you are mad that she did want to punish people for siding with the Boltons.

I'll try to work through this.  If punishing LF for siding with the Lannisters should be met with death, then everyone who did would meet the same fate.  Tyrion, the Hound and she should be happy that Margery is dead.

As for the Northern 'kids' and I say kids cause the actress playing Alys is older than Sophie Turner, she didn't want to kill them.  Just take away their titles.  While Jon had a point in forgiveness, there is still the idea that those kids would grow up hating the Starks for killing their family, just the way they hate the Lannisters and just how Jon just spent this episode bringing up to Dany how her father killed his Uncle and Grandfather.

Taking away titles is probably the least serious punishment those two could ever hope to receive.  It would be like the CEO of a company being found guilty of a crime and their assets are frozen or taken away.  The court is not going to care if that means the children of that CEO have now lost their inheritance.

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Again, if this is the case, then on what basis is she calling Ned a fool?

Because he openly went against the Lannisters with no support and just seemed to expect them to roll over.  And for all anyone knows, this is what happened.  Because no one is talking about how he had thought he had LF and the goldcloaks support.  To the world at large he just walked into the throne room and expected the Lannisters to give up the Iron Throne.

[Haleth]

16 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

It almost always seemed to be under Stannis.  I was kind of disappointed when they were doing Dragonstone: Makeover Edition in the season premier that we didn't get any of what made Stannis's court so weirdly endearingly gothic except for her pulling down one on tattered fiery heart banner.  No piles of burned gods or burned anything.  No fetuses preserved in jars.  Not even a clearly visible assprint on the Painted Table or dried up jars of leeches or anything.  That would have been quite the welcome to Westeros.  Now we just get bright days and picturesque views for the dragons to frolic in.

And in the book there was a thriving port and town below the castle.  I understand why the show budget didn't support showing a port, but it made me laugh last week and this when Dany and Jon landed on the beach instead of at the wharf.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Haleth

[Pixiebomb]

Never mind. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Pixiebomb
Never mind. Everyone beat me to it. That's what I get for multitasking

[Shimmergloom]

2 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

I thought it was fairly obvious the reunion was going to be with Bran and not Arya based on the previews before the show. That was a rather large hint he'd be in the show last night and not her.

But it was a very muted reunion, with Bran being pretty creepy. However, I don't expect joyous reunions in this story, or for those to last very long, in any case.

Yeah, imagine Bran in his cold, monotone voice telling Jon how he's really Lyanna's son and not a bastard. 

[anamika]

10 minutes ago, Edith said:

If you read my post again, I said he got lucky because he needed DG and Tyrion was willing to helped him.

If he had only went to get alliances, as the letter that Tyrion sent, and trust in him that it wasn't a trap, then he would have been screwed. In fact, he's been allowed to mine the glass only to keep him distracting/busy until he bend

Oh and Jon wanted to leave. His own words. 

No he did not get lucky. He went to Dragonstone to get dragon glass, dragon fire and men. He trusted that Tyrion was a good guy who would help him do this. And he was right about Tyrion and he got his dragon glass. What's lucky about this? He made the right decision on the facts available to him.

And Jon wanted to leave before Tyrion convinced him otherwise and gave him some good advice. Now he does not want to leave.

Edited July 31, 2017 by anamika

[DarkRaichu]

11 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Well, in thinking about it further, how long did it take Jaime to get to Highgarden on horseback?  Not like he got there overnight either.  And he and Euron were in Kings Landing at the same time; Euron probably left a day or more before Jaime did as well.  So arguably, they did have a good bit of time to get where they were going.  

Jaime went from KL to Highgarden BY LAND.  Assuming straight line, the distance between KL and Highgarden is much less than going from KL to CR by the SEA.  There was no straight line from KL to CR when traveling by the sea.  Imagine going from New York to Los Angeles by land vs by the sea WITHOUT Panama canal.

Also in Euron case, we saw Euron the progression from where Yara was to KL then to CR.  In Jaime's case, there was no in between scenes between him in KL and him in Highgarden that would make high speed travel necessary

Edited July 31, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[MrsR]

31 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Well, in thinking about it further, how long did it take Jaime to get to Highgarden on horseback?  Not like he got there overnight either.  And he and Euron were in Kings Landing at the same time; Euron probably left a day or more before Jaime did as well.  So arguably, they did have a good bit of time to get where they were going.  

Exactly. 

 

I suggest folks see Dunkirk to see time and space manipulated in a work of drama. 

Quote

Jaime went from KL to Highgarden BY LAND.  Assuming straight line, the distance between KL and Highgarden is much less than going from KL to CR by the SEA.  There was no straight line from KL to CR when traveling by the sea.  Imagine going from New York to Los Angeles by land vs by the sea.

By land means, ON FOOT. At most 10 hours of marching for the army.  Sea is much faster not just because of marching speed but it's 24/7 travel (crew working in shifts) with no expenditure of energy by the soldiers.  Sea was much much faster than land in medieval times..

Edited July 31, 2017 by MrsR

[Tikichick]

I loved that the scenes of Jon at Dragonstone were all kinds of awkward and flat.  We finally have these two major, very different characters with wildly different backgrounds and something particularly interesting in common meet for the first time, and under high stakes.   It shouldn't just go smoothly or feel natural or organic at all.  I adored Jon's confusion when he answered Tyrion's greeting, demonstrating he took to heart the lesson Tyrion taught him when they met -- only to have Tyrion struggling to signal to him that, nope, that doesn't work here, these people do not get jokes.  It was kind of like Charlie Brown racing along to kick the football, only to have Lucy once again pull it away before he can give it a kick.  I was desperately waiting for Rhaegal to land on the bluffs when Jon and Tyrion were standing there talking at the edge of the cliffs.  I was sure the dragons were going to hone in on what no one else there has the first clue is even possible.

I'm eager for Cersei to have her downfall. I thought her storyline was largely played out at the end of last season and have been pleasantly surprised by what's happened here.   Judging by how hard she's crushing it, her defeat is going to be incredible to behold.  I thought it was a masterful touch to have her punishment of Ellaria to encompass both her grief for the loss of Myrcella and that of losing her mother and being unable to stop herself from dwelling on her mother's decaying beauty/body.  I do wonder if Jamie relaying Olenna's message will cause her to take Sansa off her list?  Doubtful.  Already know Tyrion can never be off her list, simply because he exists at all. 

[FemmyV]

Dany / Jon / Tyrion were the high point for me. I enjoyed all of those exchanges, especially the Jon/Tyrion reunion I was looking forward to. Good stalemate for Dany and Jon (how much chemistry you want, really? She's not trying to have Epic BoatSex with him, just yet).

Good to see Sansa not whining, for once.

Euron's a hoot, even if the whole thing is unbelievable, from the ninja boats to the KL masses who were ready to rip the Lannisters apart limb-by-limb in Season 3, and suddenly love their Queen Cersei so much they copy her haircut.

Olenna, we hardly knew ye. Ye will be missed. Sandsnakes will not.

Speculation:

Spoiler

Samwell will be Lord Tarly! Yay! He's going to have to esplain to his Mom and Sister why they should ally with Dany. Good luck. But they'll get the Castle back, and it's entirely possible he will wind up control of the whole Reach.

I do hope we see Meera again, introducing Howland Reed.

Bran. My poor boy, what a mess.

And then there's Jaime:

Quote

There was something incredibly weary and fatalistic about it, which is a far cry from the scene waaaay back in the first season when he was full of bravado vowing to fight the whole world in "the war for Cersei's cunt."

Weary, indeed. I expect her actions in blowing up the Sept broke him, to some extent.

 

At this point, I think I'm just going to have to resign myself to the idea that the show will resort to paint-by-numbers, plot-driven scriptwriting from here on out and just deal with it. BUT. These three things are just needling me:

1. Jon Snow's increasingly guttersnipe accent. Last week was when I first noticed it, this week, after the show I went back and watched S01E02 to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. Kit is dropping his 'g's (believin', goin' etc) and his 't's ("We're nah' geh'-in' anywhere") to sound more like a Wildling. In the after-show talk, it's explicitly stated Dany sees him as uncouth, so I have no doubt this is to play up that aspect.

2. Why is Varys suddenly so pissed off all the time? Again, both episodes. For 6 years, Varys has kept his cool under every form of duress. Never showed a hint of emotion or what wheels were turning, except sometimes, to his buddy Tyrion.

3. Already discussed Arya's wild transition from six seasons of Arya, to behaving like the Hound for One. Scene. Then it's back to Arya.

 

I have to assume these are all directors' and/or script writers decisions.

Edited July 31, 2017 by FemmyV

[Francie]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

It's always been my belief that "a song of ice and fire" is a metaphor specifically for Jon. (Hey, Ser Davos, add that to his titles.)  I can see Dany bending her demand for bending the knee when it comes to Jon, once she finds out he's the second to last Targaryan. It will be their compromise that he will retain the north while ceding the Iron Throne to her.  Everyone is happy. 

"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

~Ramsey Bolton

 

I want one of those alt universe corporate exercises where Melissandei has to introduce Jon and Davos has to introduce Daenerys. 

Melissandei "This is Jon Snow, King of the North; 998th Lord commander of the Night's Watch; the Savior of Hard Home; the Uniter of Wildings and the North; the Prince Who Was Promised,* Tamer of Direwolves; Wielder of Longclaw; Natural son of Lord Eddard Stark, Lord of Winterfell; Soon-to-be Miner of Dragon Glass, and Knower of Nothing."

 

Davos:  This is Daenerys Targaryen. [pause] Queen of the Seven Kingdoms 

Daenerys:  ahem.

Davos: Nope, that's good. 

 

*Winner of 2016 annual award, as announced by Red Priestess Melisandre. Immediately preceding winner: Stannis Baratheon. Immediately subsequent winner: Daenerys Targaryen. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Francie
Autocorrect of GRRM's weirdly spelled names

[Oscirus]

11 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

Yeah, imagine Bran in his cold, monotone voice telling Jon how he's really Lyanna's son and not a bastard. 

Bran will describe Jon's murder to him. Bran  just likes using his tree powers to be a prick to family members

Edited July 31, 2017 by Oscirus

[Edith]

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

No he did not get lucky. He went to Dragonstone to get dragon glass, dragon fire and men. He trusted that Tyrion was a good guy who would help him do this. And he was right about Tyrion and he got his dragon glass. What's lucky about this? He made the right decision on the facts available to him.

And Jon wanted to leave before Tyrion convinced him otherwise and gave him some good advice. Now he does not want to leave.

Again, Sansa said that Tyrion letter could be a trap and it was. Simple

Dany didn't summon Jon to form alliances, she was pretty clear about the bend the knee. Tyrion omitted that little detail. 

That's it. That's why I said she was sort of right.

[Francie]

6 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Bran will describe Jon's murder to him. Bran  just likes using his tree powers to be a prick to family member

In that case, I eagerly await Bran making Arya re-live coming upon the Twins and seeing a dire wolf's head sewn to her brother's body. 

 

Have to comment on this moment:

Jaime:  I learn from my mistakes.

Olenna: You must be very wise, then.

Oh, Olenna. Your forces were just defeated. Your castle just taken. And the leader of the attack, bearing a sword, stands before you. And you throw shade. 

I bow down, and I shall miss you. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Francie

[OhOkayWhat]

36 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

 I do not see Euron as the type who let others drive his mothership or let others have a ship as big as his. 

I see Euron as the type who does anything to win.

Edited July 31, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[FnkyChkn34]

19 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Jaime went from KL to Highgarden BY LAND.  Assuming straight line, the distance between KL and Highgarden is much less than going from KL to CR by the SEA.  There was no straight line from KL to CR when traveling by the sea.  Imagine going from New York to Los Angeles by land vs by the sea WITHOUT Panama canal.

Also in Euron case, we saw Euron the progression from where Yara was to KL then to CR.  In Jaime's case, there was no in between scenes between him in KL and him in Highgarden that would make high speed travel necessary

Not sure what you mean - we saw Jaime with Cersei in KL long after Euron left (or at least that we saw a Euron scene).  Remember, they spent the night together?  (Ick.)  

Ships can travel much faster than armies of men and horses, who must stop to eat, sleep, etc.  I also don't think you can assume a straight line - there are roads and forests and rivers and bridges, etc.

Sorry, but I buy it, especially because we can reasonably believe that Euron left KL well before Jaime, and Euron is supposed to have the best and swiftest fleet of ships in Westeros.  He can sail at great speeds 24/7 whereas Jaime walked and had to regularly stop.

ETA:  If you look at any one of the maps that shows Westeros (all are pretty consistent with each other), Euron has to travel about 5 times as far as Jaime.  Could Euron travel 5 times as fast as Jaime (plus had a headstart)?  You betcha.

Edited July 31, 2017 by FnkyChkn34

[Tikichick]

I think everyone's being a little hard on Bran.  I suspect the idea was for him to let Sansa know he understood her pain.  I think it wasn't a very well thought out path to that outcome by the writer(s), but I think that's what they were trying to get at.  He was telling her she didn't need to keep up a front with him because there was no point since he knew it all.  

[cambridgeguy]

The real lesson this week - all of the VIPs should carry around a little vial of the poison Jaime gave to Oleanna, especially if you're caught by Cersei or Euron.

[Francie]

6 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Not sure what you mean - we saw Jaime with Cersei in KL long after Euron left (or at least that we saw a Euron scene).  Remember, they spent the night together?  (Ick.)  

Ships can travel much faster than armies of men and horses, who must stop to eat, sleep, etc.  I also don't think you can assume a straight line - there are roads and forests and rivers and bridges, etc.

Sorry, but I buy it, especially because we can reasonably believe that Euron left KL well before Jaime, and Euron is supposed to have the best and swiftest fleet of ships in Westeros.  He can sail at great speeds 24/7 whereas Jaime walked and had to regularly stop.

ETA:  If you look at any one of the maps that shows Westeros (all are pretty consistent with each other), Euron has to travel about 5 times as far as Jaime.  Could Euron travel 5 times as fast as Jaime (plus had a headstart)?  You betcha.

My whole issue is that the unsullied had a whole episode headstart on Euron's fleet. 

No worries, though. I'm just going to imagine they got lost around Estemont, and refused to stop and ask for directions. 

[OhOkayWhat]

41 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

On the last point yeah, agreed, but they made a big deal out of showing what I took to be Euron's flagship, in the middle of both battles. 

Maybe he wasn't inside the ship.

[DarkRaichu]

7 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Not sure what you mean - we saw Jaime with Cersei in KL long after Euron left (or at least that we saw a Euron scene).  Remember, they spent the night together?  (Ick.)  

Ships can travel much faster than armies of men and horses, who must stop to eat, sleep, etc.  I also don't think you can assume a straight line - there are roads and forests and rivers and bridges, etc.

Sorry, but I buy it, especially because we can reasonably believe that Euron left KL well before Jaime, and Euron is supposed to have the best and swiftest fleet of ships in Westeros.  He can sail at great speeds 24/7 whereas Jaime walked and had to regularly stop.

ETA:  If you look at any one of the maps that shows Westeros (all are pretty consistent with each other), Euron has to travel about 5 times as far as Jaime.  Could Euron travel 5 times as fast as Jaime (plus had a headstart)?  You betcha.

My bad for getting suck in to Jaime vs Euron travel time.  That was not the point.  I should have said the comparison to Jaime's travel to Highgarden is pointless because you can put Jaime's victory scenes a few days after Euron attacking CR.  Jaime did not have any scenes that gave the amount of time to travel between leaving KL and reaching Highgarden.

My original question was how did Euron able to reach CR (after going back and forward between where Yara was and KL) at about the same time as Grey Worm who went straight from Dragonstone?  Grey Worm left at about the same time as Yara, at best a few hours later.

[Tikichick]

All I can think of reading the quibbling about time is how I felt reading the last two books regarding the overlapping/parallel timelines and storylines -- with oh so many characters I was struggling to keep straight.

[Francie]

56 minutes ago, anamika said:

 

At this point I think Jaime is beyond redemption on the show. That he continues to support a monster like Cersei makes him irredeemable to me. The only way he gets redemption of any kind is if he dies saving one of his victims or sacrifices himself for the greater good.

Also Brienne deserves much better than him.

Just wait. All will be revealed. They didn't turn the Rains of Castamere into heroic music and play it on Jaime's long walk for nothing. 

[YaddaYadda]

30 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Bran will describe Jon's murder to him. Bran  just likes using his tree powers to be a prick to family members

Yeah, that whole thing was just out there. He could have just told her he knew what happened when she married Ramsay, he knows Jon died and was resurrected, and Arya is coming home. Arya arriving the next day would have been enough to show Sansa that Bran knows...things.

Jon on Dragonstone. He's sort of at his other home without even knowing it. That's where his other ancestors lived. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Blonde Gator]

16 hours ago, mac123x said:

I'd reword that:  "Dany, meet your nephew, who was dead but got better.  Jon, this is your Aunt Dany she has cool pets".  I liked how Davos almost mentioned Jon's death until Jon gave him a look, and they both Dany and Tyrion picked up on the "knife to the heart" comment.  I expected it to come back during Dany's subsequent conversation wtih Jon, but I guess that's a Chekhov's Resurrection that'll be fired later.

 

Edit -- Checkhov the writer, not Checkov the guy on Star Trek.

Speaking of Chekov on Star Trek.....did anyone notice Bran's new haircut? All he needs is some pointy ears, and he's now Mr. Spock, version 4.0, all calm and dispassionate, emotionless, logical, and pedantically explaining everything that is unknowable by obvservation at the current time.  I see Star Trek reboot movies in Isaac Hempstead-Wright's future, if they need to cast a teenage Spock.

[The Kings Foot]

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Exactly.  Euron and a ship or two headed to KL, while all of the rest went to Casterly Rock.  That makes sense to me.

Unfortunately the camera makes it very clear that Euron's  personal ship is at Casterly Rock

[MrsR]

It's not his personal ship, it's his best ship and biggest ship. Send that in to battle and take a smaller ship to KL.  He's the boss he can take what ever ship, where ever he wants, when he wants.  You're getting stuck on a protocol of your own invention.

[Francie]

34 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Speaking of Chekov on Star Trek.....did anyone notice Bran's new haircut? All he needs is some pointy ears, and he's now Mr. Spock, version 4.0, all calm and dispassionate, emotionless, logical, and pedantically explaining everything that is unknowable by obvservation at the current time.  I see Star Trek reboot movies in Isaac Hempstead-Wright's future, if they need to cast a teenage Spock.

Bran has Spock hair. Cersei looks like Kes from Deep Space Nine. And Euron takes his ships through wormholes. 

Are we sure this isn't a Star Trek reboot? 

Edited: Thanks to Blonde Gator below, Kes was in Voyager, not Deep Space 9. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Francie

[Blonde Gator]

2 minutes ago, Francie said:

Bran has Spock hair. Cersei looks like Kes from Deep Space Nine. And Euron takes his ships through wormholes. 

Are we sure this isn't a Star Trek reboot? 

LOL @ the Star Trek Reboot.

Not to quibble, but Kes was on Voyager, not DS-9.  The fact remains, however, that Cersei is definitely rocking the Kes hairstyle, (as was Cersei's maid).

[DarkRaichu]

11 minutes ago, MrsR said:

It's not his personal ship, it's his best ship and biggest ship. Send that in to battle and take a smaller ship to KL.  He's the boss he can take what ever ship, where ever he wants, when he wants.  You're getting stuck on a protocol of your own invention.

Sure.  He arrived at KL in smaller ship instead of his biggest when everyone in KL was celebrating his conquest.   

I guess we can continue this debate next week when we see Euron in his mothership leading the invasion to Casterly Rock ;) 

Edited July 31, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[AlleC17]

1 hour ago, kittykat said:

Olenna owning Jaime even in death was a fantastic way to end the episode.  I'll miss Diana Rigg but that's how you go out like a boss.  We also finally know Jaime keeps Widows Wail with him.  Good to know if he does finally gain some sense and break with Cersei.

 

I don't know if he ever will gain sense.  I think...and I really hate to say this because book Jaime is a wonderfully complex character that I enjoy reading about...that show Jaime is dead to me now.  I had high hopes given the baleful stare he sent Cersei's way at the end of last season, but that hope is pretty much gone.  And please show...send some pain and suffering Cersei's way.  I hope this isn't going to be 6 episodes of Cersei triumphs and have the last 15 minutes of the last episode have her get some comeuppance.  She needs to suffer...long and hard.  lol 

[TarotQueen]

3 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

I do not have any problem with the wooden reaction from Bran.  The last time we had any emotional reaction from him was when he realized he was responsible for Hodor being Hodor.  He looked wooden ever since.  Looking back in time to see all of the horrible things people in Westeros did to each other must have numb any feelings he had towards humanity in general

He showed emotional connection with Benjen and Meera at the Night's Watch heart tree in between too in 6x10.  

Edited July 31, 2017 by TarotQueen

[dragonsbite]

So the show made a point of Jaime carrying Widow's Wail -- the other sword made from Ned's Ice (Valerian steel sword). Are they foreshadowing his killing of Cersei (a loved one), at which point the sword bursts miraculously into flames and he becomes the PtwP? Or are they simply hinting that he'll be fighting the WWs too by the end?

[Tikichick]

Interestingly the episode had Jamie being mindful to give Olenna a merciful end, knowing she had lost all of her family.  I wonder if he had any insight to how close to that situation he himself is?