The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[CofCinci]

The girl with the red scarf around her neck sitting to the right of Jill at Derick's birthday party looks like it could be Marjorie. It's hard to tell bc her hair is pulled up in a pony tail

I thought so. She gets right up in the action.

[BitterApple]

Even though I think these two are way too young to get married, I do think Josiah is a caring, sensitive young man who will make a good husband. With the likes of David Waller and John Shraeder running around Fundieville, she certainly could have done much worse.

[msblossom]

I thought so. She gets right up in the action.

Lol, you're right, she sure does.

[CofCinci]

Lol, you're right, she sure does.

In her mind she's probably directing her baby special and practicing poses for her People cover.

[RazzleberryPie]

I read some comments about Jana not truly wanting to be a Doula but last night there was a rerun of 16 kids and moving? I think that's what it was called. But even back then she said she wanted to be a midwife. I guess it's possible she was brainwashed back then but I tend to think they were able to at least consider their own career paths in those days.

How old was Jana during the 16 kids special, and how much time has passed? If she was 16ish then, and maybe 23ish when she was following Jill around being a doula in training, that's a huge gap in time and a huge leap in maturity levels. Ask a lot of 16 year olds what their career plans are, and you'll get a lot of responses like surgeon, astronaut, constitutional attorney, NBA player, Broadway dancer, etc. Ask again at 19 when they've had a year of college under the belt, and then again at 25, and career goals are far more realistic. 

 

The thing with Jana is that she does not seem excited or enthused about ANYTHING. I don't know if she is 'over' all the filming, resents her forced servitude, or just has a dull as dirt personality like some of her brothers. Michelle SAYS Jana was difficult and overactive, but I seriously doubt that. I'm a firm believe that Michelle has just always disliked Jana (female competition, not what she expected, just clashing personalities?)

 

I'd love to actually see Jana excited about something, or expressing joy, but she may just refuse to show emotion on camera, or have a personality that doesn't outwardly expresses emotion very much.

[GEML]

Except for going to Journey for the Heart, I agree with you. Jana, in some ways, is as nearly checked out of real life as Michelle is checked out of family life. I'm not sure that anyone who doesn't know her really really well has any clue about what she wants in her life.

[becca3891]

Part of me hates speculating on someone's innermost thoughts, but are on TV after all. I think Jana is an introvert for sure, and I hope not but suspect she is depressed. I completely agree with the idea that it's hard for her to face abandoning Josie and the other younger girls. I often wonder, for people who are obsessed with the damage that divorce can do, if they ever give any thought to how the "sister mom" concept must be so traumatic for the little ones, and in Jana's case, her as well. I know kids are adaptable, but having a parent move out is a big thing and most kids end up having a very difficult time with it.

 

And when I watch the show, I feel so often that Jana is just giving it her very best, "keeping sweet" with all her might, but sometimes just wishes she could hide and burst into tears. And I think about how she has been sent to Journey Through the Heart multiple times and has confessed to harboring anger toward some people in her family. I really believe as some of you have speculated, that she is angry at her parents for their selfishness.

[Literata]

 

I really believe as some of you have speculated, that she is angry at her parents for their selfishness.

I'm still concerned that she may have been one of Gothard's "chosen ones." And you know that if that occurred, blame likely would have been placed on Jana for "defrauding" him in some way.

[Apple Clark]

 When they did the clip of JB & M arriving home, Jana shot a quick look at the camera that looked as if she'd never been so happy in her life to hand over the reigns to someone else.  She just isn't a take-charge kinda girl like Jill or Jessa.   Where was Jinger in this ep, did I miss that?  Jana is so beautiful to me.  I think she's the prettiest on of the girls - doesn't seem to have the skin issues some of the others do.  She's just always pretty.  I so wish that knight in shining armor would show up.  Janderella.

I saw the quick look to the camera but it didn't look like happiness to me, it looked like anger. Oh, and when Josie was having her seizure (seizing? Sorry, I try to stay away from medical everything, hypochondria and shit) she just looked so sad and I nearly started crying I feel awful for her. I agree she's one of the prettiest.

[RazzleberryPie]

I think Michelle is transferring a whole lot of her own teenage behavior on Jana, and disliking her for being the opposite of Michelle, even though that's exactly the character traits Jana's had shoved down her throat her whole, and what would probably be her genuine personality anyway. What  I mean is, Michelle LOVES to pontificate about how she gave away pieces of her heart by liking boys, defrauded neighbors with her bikini and shorts, etc. Jana hasn't done any of this. So even though she's following all the rules, but also isn't preaching like Jill always was, Jana is obviously selfish and sinful, because she isn't falling at the alter, confessing her sin and showing remorse for things she hasn't done. It's warped thinking, but I do think that's why Jana's been sent to journey to the heart so much - she's either hiding her sins, has the sin of Pride for not admiting to something/anything, and also because she has such a hard time with the brainwashing. I think she actually thinks about and tries to live all of the rules, instead of just following them without thinking, but not processing the meaning (Jessa and Jinger) or constantly preaching them (Jill). 

[becca3891]

 

I'm still concerned that she may have been one of Gothard's "chosen ones." And you know that if that occurred, blame likely would have been placed on Jana for "defrauding" him in some way.

Oh, yes. That is another excellent point. I worry about her and Priscilla. With Priscilla, who is always squinting and completely zombie-like, I remember hearing that Gothard encourages squinting because "alluring eyes" can be a big problem, when it comes to defrauding. When you think how many lives have been ruined because Gothard can't get his conflicting views on women under control, it is heart breaking.

[Happyfatchick]

I never personally heard BG encourage women to squint, but I only attended the big basic seminars. Maybe he did teach that in smaller or more involved classes. Either way, none of the Duggars apparently bought into that line - they all (especially Jessa and Jill) seem to raise their eyebrows to open their eyes wide in pics. And they do have some pretty eyes (and look what happened!)

[cmr2014]

 

I think Michelle is transferring a whole lot of her own teenage behavior on Jana, and disliking her for being the opposite of Michelle, even though that's exactly the character traits Jana's had shoved down her throat her whole, and what would probably be her genuine personality anyway. What  I mean is, Michelle LOVES to pontificate about how she gave away pieces of her heart by liking boys, defrauded neighbors with her bikini and shorts, etc. Jana hasn't done any of this. So even though she's following all the rules, but also isn't preaching like Jill always was, Jana is obviously selfish and sinful, because she isn't falling at the alter, confessing her sin and showing remorse for things she hasn't done. It's warped thinking, but I do think that's why Jana's been sent to journey to the heart so much - she's either hiding her sins, has the sin of Pride for not admiting to something/anything, and also because she has such a hard time with the brainwashing. I think she actually thinks about and tries to live all of the rules, instead of just following them without thinking, but not processing the meaning (Jessa and Jinger) or constantly preaching them (Jill).

 

I think that this is a really interesting thought. When I was younger, I had a contentious relationship with my mother. One of the many causes of friction was that she "knew what I was thinking" in a variety of situations where she genuinely did not know what I was thinking. If J'chelle was sure that Jana was thinking X because that is what a teenage J'chelle would have been thinking, and Jana refuses to admit to, and atone for, these thoughts, then she needs more re-education camp.

 

Another thought that crossed my mind was that Jana might remind J'chelle of someone who she resents. I'm often struck by how little the siblings resemble each other, and how little they resemble JB and J'chelle. We have seen virtually none of J'chelle's family over the years, and it's possible that Jana resembles a sister (or other close relative) that J'chelle disliked and resented in her youth.

[DangerousMinds]

Jana is closer to 30 than she is to her teen years at this point.

[Neet]

Jana is closer to 30 than she is to her teen years at this point.

That's heartbreaking. She hasn't done anything her younger sisters haven't done at this point, which shows how damn smothering that family is. (the parents, of course)

[becca3891]

The squinting thing may possibly not be true. I do know having "bright, shining eyes" is one of his talking points, and squinting doesn't really line up with that. Someone who had attended some of his seminars once told me he would counsel women that squinting was a way to avoid having overly alluring eyes, but something may have gotten lost in translation there. In any case, I can only hope that he left Jana alone because of how high profile the Duggars are, but that is no guarantee.

 

 

I'm still mourning the fact that she and Zach Bates didn't end up together.

This was from way back, but I clicked on the first page by mistake. Meh. Has anyone seen Bringing Up Bates? I couldn't help myself. And Zach just seemed silly and unbearably clueless, as they all do. The one thing I found interesting was that he and his wife Whitney admitted that they broke their vow not to kiss before marriage.

[anony mouse]

I've always gotten the feeling that Jana was a spirited child - and that between Gothard and that terrible train up a child sanctioned abuse, they broke her. I don't think Michelle is lying when she says Jana was a handful as a kid. I think what we are seeing now is what happens to normal kids when they've had their spirit broken.

[GEML]

I don't get the feeling Jana was spirited, but I get the feeling that then, and now, she told the truth when asked. And in a household like theirs, that's a problem.

[Seashell Lover]

I think I know why Jana does not want to up and get married. She is afraid of the unknown and wants to stay in a fimiluar situation that is comfortable for her.

[cmr2014]

Whatever the reason, I think Jana knows what she wants -- whether that is to stay home and care for "her" kids, or she simply doesn't want to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

It seems to me that both Jill and Jessa took the first guy to come along. I know that Jessa says that JB has turned away other suitors -- I believe that she called them weirdos. If they had been anything other than stalkerish weirdos, I don't see her using that word. Even if she wasn't interested, I don't think she would have called any young man from within their community a "weirdo" on national television.

 

I think that both JD and Jana are very shy, and that puts them at a real disadvantage in that culture. People like that are much better at opening up on a one-to-one basis, and that's just not an option in this situation. I can't blame anyone for not wanting to take a chance on either of them. Any sort of agreement to spend any time with someone is essentially an agreement to marry -- barring any huge problems. 

[RazzleberryPie]

I think that this is a really interesting thought. When I was younger, I had a contentious relationship with my mother. One of the many causes of friction was that she "knew what I was thinking" in a variety of situations where she genuinely did not know what I was thinking. If J'chelle was sure that Jana was thinking X because that is what a teenage J'chelle would have been thinking, and Jana refuses to admit to, and atone for, these thoughts, then she needs more re-education camp.

 

Another thought that crossed my mind was that Jana might remind J'chelle of someone who she resents. I'm often struck by how little the siblings resemble each other, and how little they resemble JB and J'chelle. We have seen virtually none of J'chelle's family over the years, and it's possible that Jana resembles a sister (or other close relative) that J'chelle disliked and resented in her youth.

 

I think both things are correct - that Michelle "knows" what Jana is thinking - even when Michelle is wrong, AND that Michelle resents that she gave away pieces of her heart and Jana didn't. I also think Michelle way over-exaggerates any "sinful" behavior she had as a kid. She has a pretty good record of overexaggerating and overemphasizing really inaccurate 'facts' (her missing back muscle, her defrauding her neighbor causing a divorce, Josie having 'glitches' or 'hiccups' but not real medical issues, Josie's floating intestines, etc). She may wish she had done things differently as a teen, but I absolutely don't think she was the brazen hussy Whore of Babylon she makes herself out to be. A whole lot of repentance and a dramatic testimony really suits her speaking circuit and provides a lot of drama for attention. That's all.

I've always gotten the feeling that Jana was a spirited child - and that between Gothard and that terrible train up a child sanctioned abuse, they broke her. I don't think Michelle is lying when she says Jana was a handful as a kid. I think what we are seeing now is what happens to normal kids when they've had their spirit broken.

Many of the other kids are very spirited, and Michelle just attributes that to a lot of energy or being boys. I really don't see an evidence that Jana was spirited any more than the rest of them, except for what Michelle says. We do hear Michelle saying Jana kicked her in the womb, was high spirited, etc., but I firmly believe Michelle was just overwhelmed, didn't like another female in the house, didn't know how to handle three babies under two, and took it out on Jana.  

 

Jana is way too reserved and indecisive to have been very high spirited, IMO. Jill the Narc would've been seen as high-spirited if she hadn't been the Narc. Jessa is definitely high-spirited and mean-spirited at times, but as the Head Bitch In Charge, she got stuff done, so her high spiritedness benefited Michelle. Jinger's a followe. JoyAnna flew under the high-spirit radar, because they were more concerned about her being a tomboy, and then four older sisters kept her from being a buddy leader until Jill left.

 

I definitely see "high spirited" translated as "female in competition with Michelle for attention" (nothing sexual, just being Alpha Female). God forbid a Cousin Amy or Marjorie grew up that household. Michelle would slaughter them. 

 

By no means do I think Jana is 100% perfect, but at 25, she needs to start making some decisions on her own, if she indeed is as miserable as she appears on the show. First thing I'd do if I were her is move all of my stuff out to Ben's old room, and dare anyone to cross the threshold without permission. Then I'd figure out how to financially support myself, whether that means a job, separate TLC paycheck, education/training for a career, etc. But then, of course, she may be one of those co-dependent people, like her mother, who can't function being independent for more than 2 seconds. I just don't see a quickie marriage as the only solution to Jana's happiness. Jana first and foremost needs to learn to make basic decisions for herself and then take some responsibility for her own life.

[Fuzzysox]

There is a People mag article on FB asking MEchelle what would be a good Mother's Day gift or something like that. The first commenter said whatever gift it is it should go to Jana! lol Right on! Jana needs to be celebrated as MOTY not a never available MEchelle.

[truthtalk2014]

Whatever the reason, I think Jana knows what she wants -- whether that is to stay home and care for "her" kids, or she simply doesn't want to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

Is it true that Zach Bates asked Jana to court and she turned it down?  I read that somewhere the other day but didn't know if it was true or just gossip.  

[Vaysh]

Jana is way too reserved and indecisive to have been very high spirited, IMO.

Not necessarily. Speaking from my own experience, I have been told that I was extremely outgoing, chatty, confident and friendly with people (including perfect strangers) as a very young child. I was also quite stubborn and knew my own mind. However, due to things happening over the course of my childhood I became increasingly more reserved, shy, passive and insecure. I'm not exactly shy anymore but I am reserved and can be quiet around people I don't know and I don't think I've ever recovered fully that confidence I had when I was really little. I think it's perfectly plausible that Jana was "spirited" as they put it, but that they actively set about to change that because in Gothard World girls and women aren't supposed to be spirited, they are supposed to be meek, submissive helpmeets because Jesus.

[CofCinci]

What's spirited to Mechelle? A kid that has the nerve to ask to be fed or for help to tie her shoes

[truthtalk2014]

By no means do I think Jana is 100% perfect, but at 25, she needs to start making some decisions on her own, if she indeed is as miserable as she appears on the show. First thing I'd do if I were her is move all of my stuff out to Ben's old room, and dare anyone to cross the threshold without permission. Then I'd figure out how to financially support myself, whether that means a job, separate TLC paycheck, education/training for a career, etc. But then, of course, she may be one of those co-dependent people, like her mother, who can't function being independent for more than 2 seconds. I just don't see a quickie marriage as the only solution to Jana's happiness. Jana first and foremost needs to learn to make basic decisions for herself and then take some responsibility for her own life.

I have to agree here.  She needs to get some cajones at some point and stand up to Boob and MEchelle.  She's not getting any younger and it's quite a while before Josie is married off.  

 

You know she must have a ton of guys approaching Boob for her hand in courting.  It could be a daunting thing for her to go from Jslave to having sex in on day or maybe she is just not interested in men.  Either way, I agree that she should move to the Benjermin room.  

Edited May 3, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[cmr2014]

I wonder if the Laundry Room Incident has anything to do with a change in her behavior. She would have been old enough to have internalized the idea that it was her bad behavior that caused her mother to have a breakdown.

[3girlsforus]

I think it's pretty easy for us from the outside to say Jana should stand up to JB/Michele because she's a 25 year old adult. But the reality is just because the calendar says she's 25 doesn't make her a 25 year old adult. She's been raised to stop maturing around 15. Just look at her sisters. They may be married but they aren't any more mature than my 15 year old either. In fact my 15 year old is more mature in many ways. Jana is still a child. She has never been encouraged to think through life questions. She's never sat down with Mom and Dad and talked about what she might want from her life or what kind of issues she needs to consider as she gets older. Giving her the overwhelming responsibilities of raising her siblings doesn't promote maturity either. It just gives her a lot of chores. A child is given chores by their parent. That's what she has. An adult has responsibilities related to their own life. Nothing about her life says 'adult'. Even "real' adults have trouble standing up to their parents in the way Jana would have to in this situation. It's really not surprising Jana doesn't have it in her. 

[RazzleberryPie]

I think it's pretty easy for us from the outside to say Jana should stand up to JB/Michele because she's a 25 year old adult. But the reality is just because the calendar says she's 25 doesn't make her a 25 year old adult. She's been raised to stop maturing around 15. Just look at her sisters. They may be married but they aren't any more mature than my 15 year old either. In fact my 15 year old is more mature in many ways. Jana is still a child. She has never been encouraged to think through life questions. She's never sat down with Mom and Dad and talked about what she might want from her life or what kind of issues she needs to consider as she gets older. Giving her the overwhelming responsibilities of raising her siblings doesn't promote maturity either. It just gives her a lot of chores. A child is given chores by their parent. That's what she has. An adult has responsibilities related to their own life. Nothing about her life says 'adult'. Even "real' adults have trouble standing up to their parents in the way Jana would have to in this situation. It's really not surprising Jana doesn't have it in her. 

Oh, I absolutely agree that the likelihood of Jana flipping a switch and becoming a 'normal' or 'typical' 25 year old is 0%. I'm not expecting her, either, to be like one of those crazy Amish kids  who turns into a Kardashian on steroids the second they leave the farm for rumspringa (which fascinates me how the Amish can sometimes go from 0 to 1,000 in a matter of minutes). She'll likely never erase the fear of hell, disobeying her parents/wearing pants, wearing pants, whatever.

 

But at some point, an adult woman has to take some responsibility for her own happiness, and that may force her out of her comfort zone, or to challenge the rules that are making her miserable. Jill and Jessa are married and seem to be at the TTH, or having kids at theirs, all the time. If marriage is the key to her happiness, which I don't think it is, then there's no reason she can't do like her sisters and live near by with her husband. She clearly doesn't want higher education or a career, or they'd make a huge deal out of her 'training' like they did with Jill's midwifery. 

 

I honestly think Jana would appear a lot happier if she would 1) learn to say NO when her sisters dump more work on her, and 2) find a friend her own age, who has some common interests. I totally realize finding another fundie 25 year old who isn't weird, drunk on kool-aid, or spitting out her third or fourth kids is going to be like finding a purple unicorn, but girl needs SOMETHING of her own. If she is indeed rebellious and high-spirited, forcing her into a quickie married with some David Waller freak who is going to bully her into submission, and also force her into obeying his marital demands, is the only thing worse, IMO, than the life she's living now. 

[3girlsforus]

I honestly think Jana would appear a lot happier if she would 1) learn to say NO when her sisters dump more work on her, and 2) find a friend her own age, who has some common interests. I totally realize finding another fundie 25 year old who isn't weird, drunk on kool-aid, or spitting out her third or fourth kids is going to be like finding a purple unicorn, but girl needs SOMETHING of her own. If she is indeed rebellious and high-spirited, forcing her into a quickie married with some David Waller freak who is going to bully her into submission, and also force her into obeying his marital demands, is the only thing worse, IMO, than the life she's living now. 

 

This is very true. I can't express how much I wish this would happen. She needs a friend. She needs something unrelated to her family or Josh's family. 

 

I just don't think it's going to happen. No one is going to help her achieve those things and I don't think she has it in her to try for it or demand it. At some point it's on her to step up and take responsibility for her life. As angry as I am at JB/Michele for putting her in this situation, at some point some of the responsibility has to be on her. But I've stopped hoping she will get out. I think her future will either be what we see now or some David Waller freak. Makes me angry and sad. 

 

Oh - and I don't get the Amish thing either. 

[Fuzzysox]

Maybe Jana could become friends with Carolyn Jessop so she can be de-programmed.

[pinguina]

I really feel for Jana.  She is the "oldest" and because of that has more responsibilities foisted on her and yet cannot or rather is not allowed to do what a normal young lady who has a strong faith is probably doing right now.  She is expected to assume adult responsibilities without any of the perks that come with adulthood like having friends, going off for the week-end or mini-vacation with friends, attending a real college.

     I have three nieces around her age (24 and 26).  One has a bachelor's degree, one has just completed her master's, and the third is finishing up her first year in a master's program.  They all live at home but one works in an office as an assistant to her department head, one holds down two jobs as she works on her master's, and the third has three part-time jobs as she contemplates a PhD. (she was accepted by two universities).  I see the possibilities that they have in front of them and the confidence that they possess.  They have something poor Jana doesn't have and I wonder if she ever will.  They have the trust of their parents and the confidence that they have instilled in them a good work ethic, faith, kindness, and morals.  They have extended family who think they are wonderful young ladies.

    Poor Jana, do her parents even truly trust her?  Do they trust what they, as parents, have "taught" her about morals, faith, life, religion?  Will she one day look around and see others her age living a Christian life but having friends, fun, an education?

[BitterApple]

Unless Jana breaks away or marries the first guy to come along the way Jill and Jessa did, she's going to have a tough time finding a quality husband. Alpha dogs aren't going to hand over their balls to JimBoob. She'd likely end up with a more passive male like Ben or Derick. Or a vindictive jerkwad like TFDW.

[JenCarroll]

It's always possible that Jana is not interested in men.

[cmr2014]

I think that they will do something about the "Jana problem" in the next year or so. J'chelle might want Jana at home to do the child-care, housekeeping, etc., but if they think that the "CinderJana" comments are hurting their brand, they'll do something about it. Both Joseph and Josiah were shipped off with barely a word about where they were or what they were doing. Maybe she will go to DC and help care for M4 while taking classes at an all-girls Christian college

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

Maybe Jana did speak out about getting her own room or living in Ben's bachelor shed, but they shot it down and compromised with the room redo. Just a thought ;)

[3girlsforus]

I think that they will do something about the "Jana problem" in the next year or so. J'chelle might want Jana at home to do the child-care, housekeeping, etc., but if they think that the "CinderJana" comments are hurting their brand, they'll do something about it. Both Joseph and Josiah were shipped off with barely a word about where they were or what they were doing. Maybe she will go to DC and help care for M4 while taking classes at an all-girls Christian college

 

I suspect they feel like they have to do something about it as well. The problem is that their options as to what to do are severely limited if they want to keep to their stated approach. They could ship Joseph and Josiah off because they are boys. They believe females should live at home until marriage. I think they would fear sending her off to live with Josh and Anna because they see there have been changes to Josh and Anna. They might allow online college classes. But that wouldn't really fix the public perception since she'd still be at home. I fear they are going to really push a courtship. 

 

I know GEML has said that the only way out for the Duggar girls is marriage so at least if they marry they are out. I understand that so part of me would welcome a courtship for Jana even if it isn't necessarily what she's yearning for. But the other part of me just can't get past that being her only option for emancipation. It just makes me mad. As a parent, it just continues to baffle me how JB and Michele don't want the world for their kids. How can you not want them to sprout their wings and shoot for the stars? 

[Bella]

Does this flavor of fundie have space in it for the maiden aunt who contributes child care followed by elder care? That was real life for many women in previous centuries.

 

I have a sinking feeling that Jana is the designated caretaker-for-life. How old is her grandmother? How old will Jim Boob and MEchelle be when the youngest ones are married off? Has she been chosen to sacrifice her own life and happiness for the extended family?

[GEML]

I really don't think that JB and Michelle would stand in the way of Jana if she wanted to go to Crown College or the like. For one thing, there are the Bates girls who went there, and with Gothard the man fading in influence, ideas do change.

But I'm not sure that Jana wants to go to college. She's never given any indication of wanting to pursue a subject academically or otherwise. She only did First Responder and Doula training for her siblings. She doesn't seem to want to get married.

The biggest mystery of the show is just what does Jana want her adult life to look like?

I think SHE thinks her only way out is to get married (and I doubt JB and M are encouraging anything else) and I don't know if she's not found someone in particular, if she is too afraid to meet people, if she doesn't like men, if she doesn't want children, etc. But at this point, there doesn't seem to be much interest in marriage from either older Duggar twin.

Edited May 4, 2015 by GEML

[3girlsforus]

I think Jana is right that her only way out is marriage. Even going to Crown College won't really do her any good. She can't get a job or have a career. At 25 she'd feel pretty stupid living with teenagers in a dorm and she's not going to be allowed to get an apartment on her own. So she's not interested in marriage therefore she's stuck. 

 

I'm not removing Jana's responsibility for her life from this situation but she has no reason to think about what her adult life will look like because she knows. It is either this or marriage. So far she's chosen the devil she knows. What I do put on JB and M is that lack of option. As a mom to a college student, a high schooler and a middle schooler, the 'what are your goals? what are you interested in, what kind of training/education do you need to achieve those, how can I help you be who you'd like to be' is a near constant conversation in our house. That's my job. Discuss, facilitate, encourage... aid them in becoming happy, self-sufficient adults whether that means being a rocket scientist or a mom. JB and M are so absorbing in themselves and their need to control that they have abandoned a basic responsibility of parenthood. 

[andromeda331]

I really don't think that JB and Michelle would stand in the way of Jana if she wanted to go to Crown College or the like. For one thing, there are the Bates girls who went there, and with Gothard the man fading in influence, ideas do change.

 

 

I really think they would stand in the way. They've had no problem dropping all of the responsibility in her lap her entire life. The only time she ever gets to leave is to go watch her brother's kids or cook dinner for her brother-in-law. Michelle's never going to step up and take care of her kids and neither will JB. When she felt anger towards her parents they sent her to be reprogrammed. Its possible JB really does love Jana but he also knows he can't let her go. Jana has to know this too. What will happen if she leaves? All those kids will be left without a parent to take care of them and she will just drop her entire work load in the hands of Jinger or Joy. The only thing they might do if public pressure gets too bad is find a man who wouldn't have no problem living with them after marrying Jana. Its too bad the public pressure can't force them to parent their own kids and stop forcing their daughter to do all of the work.

[GEML]

I'm not convinced that Journey to the Heart is about reprogramming. And part of the reason for this is because when she was going there is the happiest we've seen Jana as an adult. So she hardly looked like she was being sent away as punishment. I think she might be someone who enjoys mentoring teenage girls, perhaps in a youth ministry capacity, as she does seem to enjoy Joy's company despite the age gap. But because she lives in a Gothard/church of JB world, where the focus is always on small children, that's a side she's never been able to develop, except for a few weeks at JttH.

[Apple Clark]

I think Jana is right that her only way out is marriage. Even going to Crown College won't really do her any good. She can't get a job or have a career. At 25 she'd feel pretty stupid living with teenagers in a dorm and she's not going to be allowed to get an apartment on her own. So she's not interested in marriage therefore she's stuck.

She may feel stupid living in a dorm, but I would rather feel stupid for a few years living in a dorm and get an education than feel stupid living in a dorm and get no education. Of course, it's still her choice and her life, but I wish she'd do an online college or something if she can't leave her kids. She's only stuck (IMO) because she's scared. I would be too though.

[Happyfatchick]

I'm not convinced that Journey to the Heart is about reprogramming. And part of the reason for this is because when she was going there is the happiest we've seen Jana as an adult. So she hardly looked like she was being sent away as punishment. I think she might be someone who enjoys mentoring teenage girls, perhaps in a youth ministry capacity, as she does seem to enjoy Joy's company despite the age gap. But because she lives in a Gothard/church of JB world, where the focus is always on small children, that's a side she's never been able to develop, except for a few weeks at JttH.

I haven't watched the past shows, admittedly, but where would I go to find shots or clips of Jana at Journey, GEML? I want to see this happy Jana.

[3girlsforus]

She may feel stupid living in a dorm, but I would rather feel stupid for a few years living in a dorm and get an education than feel stupid living in a dorm and get no education. Of course, it's still her choice and her life, but I wish she'd do an online college or something if she can't leave her kids. She's only stuck (IMO) because she's scared. I would be too though.

 

Oh I completely agree. I wish she'd get an education any way she can. Whether that means feeling stupid in a dorm or online but still the caretaker of the home. I just think Jana figures there isn't any point. They've never been taught that education is good just for the sake of education so she'd bound to look at education as a means to a job. But she's not allowed to get a job. So she may figure, what's the point. I agree she's probably scared. I would be too. We really don't know what she wants. I'm not convinced she does either. I don't think we can over estimate the trap she's in. Having the TV show just compounds it. If she wants to make a change in her life that would cause uproar or in the minds of JB and M would hurt their image she could jeopardize the livelihoods not just of her parents and siblings, but of Josh and Anna and their 4 kids, of Jill and Derick and Izzy, and of Jessa and Ben and Seewald baby. You and I know that Jana leaving the nest would be great television and thrill lots of people. But JB and M want a particular image and a particular show. The only escape for Jana that fits in that mold is marriage. So she's got to be terrified either way. She can either buck the system which has to be terrifying or she can get married which doesn't seem like what she wants. Marrying someone just to escape would be terrifying too. 

[Howyougetthegirl91]

I don't think Jana should feel stupid for getting an education even if she's 25 and in a dorm. IMO. If that is what she wants in life. I mean ; what's really makes her better or worst than Jessa for example? Jessa found a guy to settle with younger than Jana. And it seems like in this family if you're a woman that's it basically. Sadly enough. I hope she tries to educate herself and than finds a good man. At least it'll set her apart from her sisters.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Howyougetthegirl91

[BitterApple]

I'm not convinced that Journey to the Heart is about reprogramming. And part of the reason for this is because when she was going there is the happiest we've seen Jana as an adult. So she hardly looked like she was being sent away as punishment. I think she might be someone who enjoys mentoring teenage girls, perhaps in a youth ministry capacity, as she does seem to enjoy Joy's company despite the age gap. But because she lives in a Gothard/church of JB world, where the focus is always on small children, that's a side she's never been able to develop, except for a few weeks at JttH.

JTTH was probably paradise for Jana. She got the opportunity to spend time with girls her own age who weren't related to her as well as get some peace and quiet. It was probably a relief for her to go to sleep at night knowing she wouldn't have to get up in the morning and change diapers, get kids dressed and all the hundreds of other chores her mother was too lazy to do.

Edited May 4, 2015 by BitterApple

[trimthatfat]

Honestly, if someone wants an education, they will get it. They won't really give a damn at the end of the day about being the oldest person in a dorm or in a classroom.

[Jellybeans]

Maybe Jana should just become a Nun. I don't don't even know if that's a snark or not.

[Seashell Lover]

You have to remember that she has been brainwashed into thinking the only thing that matters in my life is taking care of the kids.