The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Well, I'm making the assumption that 17 year old girls often are in love. Having once been a 17 year old girl. :)

 

At 17 who didn't have a crush or an infatuation but love, not buying it.  But I guess if you live in "Duggarland" it has to be called love, they are not allowed to have a crush or be infatuated.  Arranged marriages or contrived courtships do not begin from love although I am sure it may grow over time when they simply have no choice once they commit to courtship and a lifelong partner.     

Edited April 18, 2015 by Foghorn Leghorn

[Mrsjumbo]

I have a friend who met & married young. Married 20 yrs, now the man is in full blown midlife crisis zone. She found out he's having an affair, he bought a boat, etc. she says "I don't even know this person". I wonder if there is a higher incidence of this in couples that marry young vs those that sow their wild oats before marriage & marry later?

[3girlsforus]

I have a friend who met & married young. Married 20 yrs, now the man is in full blown midlife crisis zone. She found out he's having an affair, he bought a boat, etc. she says "I don't even know this person". I wonder if there is a higher incidence of this in couples that marry young vs those that sow their wild oats before marriage & marry later?

 

I would be willing to bet not. Obviously a lot goes into divorce statistics including a general change in the attitude toward divorce. But let's face it. Most people these days get married after having sex with multiple people, dating a long time, often living together, and the age for marriage is older than it used to be. But all of these things being touted at preferable to young, chasted marriage haven't really improved divorce rates. That isn't to say I think marriage at 17 is a good plan. I definitely don't want that for my girls. But that is more about wanting them to be their own people, get an education, develop their career than it is thinking that 'date a lot, live together, get married later' is formula for successful marriage over a younger marriage. As someone pointed out above, these kids aren't going to be able to get an education and develop a career so it's different for them. 

[ginger90]

Does the girl have to get permission from Jim  Bob  to court a son of his?

[Wowzer]

I think that Josiah and Marjorie are too young to be thinking about getting married. However, they are between a rock and a hard place since they aren't allowed date to see if there is something there. They have a spark and want to pursue it.  Hopefully, Jim Bob and Michelle can lighten up a little more like the Bates family shifted their view of courtship.  No more cookie cutter formula and actually allow Josiah and Marjorie to dictate how their relationship develops. The Bates family isn't perfect but is miles ahead of the Duggars. 

 

I will say that while being together for a while before marriage is preferable, I've seen people who have dated for years break up within a year or two of marriage. One friend was engaged for 5 years and divorced within 18 months. The people who are together for 20+ years are also a shock to me. The Duggar kids don't have the option for divorce so I really wish for them that they look at whether they like their spouse as a person and not view them as simply a way out of the house.  

 

I really feel for any Duggar kid who enters a courtship while the show is still on tv.  It would be hard enough to end a courtship without millions of people knowing that a Duggar had a failed relationship.   

Edited April 18, 2015 by Lilytiger

[GEML]

Well, my husband and I were 17 when we met, I was 18 when we started dating. And yes, it was love. Sorry if that offends people. We have our own midlife crises, but it's not about each other. (Married 25 years )

I'm now of the opinion that if the Duggar kids do not have other options (and the either don't or won't) they should just marry. That isn't all on their parents, by the way. I've seen children leave far more difficult household and make it just fine. To some extent, they choose not to. That's fine, but don't expect me to feel badly about you because of it.

[JenCarroll]

Everyone has the option to divorce, and some married-young fundies do get there. But I think it'll be the younger girls, Johanna on down, where we might see someone actually take a different path. Jim Bob will be worn out trying to find suitors for all of them, and Michelle will be the rest of the way around the bend by then. And fewer tattlers at home to duck.

[Wowzer]

I definitely think that you can be in love at 17 and develop that into a healthy strong marriage.  However, the Duggars don't get to actually explore their feelings without being forced to commit to a courtship.  Maybe the getting to know you period helps a little. IDK if it was a condition of courtship that Josiah and Marjorie had to make it public.  The internet community was buzzing that someone was courting before the announcement so it was going to come out soon and maybe they wanted to control speculation on who it was. 

 

Oh, I know that once you're married you can choose whatever path you want take in your marriage. However, there are different levels of acceptability for divorce for a couple, family and community. I have friends who are as mainstream as it comes but continually say "divorce is not an option" or "you made your choice, you're stuck with me for life." The ones who say divorce is not an option are dead serious. To the Duggars, I'm guessing divorce is not an option for a couple unless there is abuse. I viewing it more as what they accept for themselves than imposed from outside.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Lilytiger

[JenCarroll]

"You're stuck with me for life?" Really? Are there any states that still don't have no-fault divorce? One spouse actually can't 'refuse to give him a divorce' like you read about in old novels. It'll be granted on grounds of separation for a period of time, to either spouse.

But I do get the point that some people can't stand up for themselves, and some are true believers who will never end a marriage under any circumstances. I don't know that all 19 Duggar children do or will fall into the latter group; its statistically unlikely with that many kids that every single one of them will toe the Fundy line forever. But time will tell.

[chi-mom]

Does the girl have to get permission from Jim Bob to court a son of his?

[chi-mom]

I doubt the girl has to get Boob's permission, but Josiah probably was "encouraged" to get her father's permission. And to some extent, Josiah had to have permission to even court anyone at all.

[Absolom]

I can't say divorce will never be an option for any Duggar offspring.  I've seen too many fundie divorces to believe it's always off the table no matter what.  If I may quote someone I know when her mother told her she couldn't get a divorce, "Mom, I'm informing you, not asking you."  I can't ever get excited about teens getting married.  I know there's a chance that the courtship with Josiah and Marjorie won't result in marriage or that it will go on until at least Josiah is 20, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope.  The TV show must go on and we need another wedding for next season (at least in Jim Bob's mind it seems).  

[Wowzer]

The "stuck with me for life" is more of a joking way to say  "work with me, we're in this together for life."  It's not a I will never sign the paper but more of a we made this commitment for ourselves and before our family and community.  I don't know anyone who has covenant marriage but they're viewing it similar to that. It isn't even about not standing up for oneself. 

 

Hopefully, the Duggar kids don't find themselves in a situation where they need a divorce. I hope that a many of the kids move away from Gothard and a Fundy lifestyle as want to. I agree only time will tell.  I think that Marjorie and Josiah have a chance to be Fundy-lite as long as he is really under apprenticeship with her father and can gain a skill set that sets him apart from Jim Bob.     

[CofCinci]

The Duggars would have never allowed their children to go over there for Spanish lessons if these people were Fundy-lite.

[chi-mom]

As much as a divorce would be an embarrassment for their family, I can't see JB making a daughter stay in an abusive marriage. Especially if it were physically abusive, with bruises or other evidence. I'm guessing only a very small (and sick) portion of society would be understanding of that & that if it got out that a daughter was being coerced to stay in abusive marriage, they would lose a lot of their fame & fans.

[Chai]

I was hoping Josiah or another one of the Duggar family actually leaves. I'm afraid I want it both ways. I want one of the kids to escape and not suffer any negative backlash from JB and M and the rest of their families. I 'm sure there must have been a family similar to the Duggars that had a child not agree to the extent where they left. 

[Wowzer]

I definitely agree that Jim Bob would step in if there was abuse in a relationship. Jill and Derick's covenant marriage provides divorce in the case of physical or sexual abuse. I'm in no way advocating continuing marriage where abuse(mental, sexual, or physical) or infidelity is present. Couples do naturally drift apart as well. I think that the couple should determine when they do separate. I just think that the Duggars were raised to believe that divorce (outside of abuse) is not an acceptable end to their marriage.

All I meant was that I hope that all of the children choose the person that they marry because they love their chosen as well as like them as a person rather than use it as a way to get out of the house. 

[Temperance]

Two things

1) First of all, just because he's the first one to enter a courtship since Jessa's wedding doesn't mean necessarily he's the next one married. Look at Jessa and Ben. They started their courtship and then all of a sudden JB and Jill met Derrick. And Jill and Derrick got married first. (Mainly I think because he had a good job.) Then I think Jim Bob didn't seem to be in rush to marry off Jessa; I think he would have been happy to let her court longer. She and Ben were the ones who rushed it. So if Marjorie and Jo want to go slower, I could see JB and Mechelle good with that. 

I also think that any of the older children would end up married first if they found someone they wanted to be with (Even Jana).

 

 

2) I was just thinking about the covenant marriage. It seems like Jill is the only one who has one. I wonder what kind of marriage Si and Marjorie will have. 

Edited April 18, 2015 by Temperance

[GEML]

Here's the thing - they have more freedom in marriage. It's clear all of the married people are already stronger and independent than they were at home. They may still be tied to the family, but not as much as they were single. That's going to allow them to see possibilities in their lives that they simply couldn't see. And, yes, that will include divorce.

But they have to have some space first. And we know they can't get it at home. The only way to get that space is to marry.

Fundy's don't have lower divorce rates than evangelicals or non religious people, by the way.

Edited April 18, 2015 by GEML

[Darknight]

I don't think kids should get married. Granted back then teens did get married, but it was a different time. You're not the same person you were at 17/18. I definitely look back at my own younger years and think I can't believe I did that. Or I can't believe I went out or had a crush on an idiot. I would encourage my kids to seek out education, travel, find themselves, mature a but then seek out a partner for marriage.

Mojo, might be marrying for sex. That's what I think when I see young christian couples marry. They're marrying for guilt free sex. I do hope Jo can follow his own path.

[GEML]

In many fundamental ways, I'm not that different of a person than I was at 17. Most of the times I look back and think "I can't believe I did that" I was usually giving in to someone else and not heeding my inner moral compass.

Now in my case, we completed two BAs, my husband had an MA from an Ivy League and. JD from a top ten program and had an international law career, and I've written two novels published by New York publishers while we raised a family. Could we have done those things separately, given the socio-economic class we came out of? I doubt it.

There's not one best way to do things.

Do I think Josiah and Marjorie will go to college and have successful careers? No. But I think Josiah has a better CHANCE at going to college or learning a white collar set of skills being married to Marjorie than he does being single and working for Jim Bob's "construction" company. And he clearly has Josh and Anna helping him out (I don't think the intro was accidental.) No more accountability. A low level political job, a wife with public speaking ability who writes well. A father-in-law who has a real white collar business. A bi-lingual mother-in-law.

Why wouldn't someone like Josish find that attractive? And all he has to do to get access to it is marry a girl he probably genuinely likes and maybe even loves or can grow to love.

Given his choices (since he won't leave) that's not a terrible one.

Edited April 18, 2015 by GEML

[Foghorn Leghorn]

 

I've written two novels published by New York publishers while we raised a family.

 

BRAVO!!  Please share so we can check them out!

[BitterApple]

I wonder if Joe being allowed to attend Clown College was a sort of tipping point for Josiah. It's odd that Joe, who never expressed a desire for higher education, is in school while Josiah, who wanted to study accounting, is stuck doing maintenance work for Boob. I believe Josiah is genuinely fond of Marjorie but I think the thought of freedom factored into the equation as well.

[JenCarroll]

Are there any links to the video of Josiah's reaction to Michelle's announcement that she was pregnant with Jubilee?  Wasn't that the one where he was obviously unhappy at the announcement?  Also any links to the video of JB's nastiness to him when they were  in some kind of outdoor competition (paintball?).  I'd love to view those again.

I gather that scene never aired again. I hope someone, somewhere has a recording and will post it, because I hate that they get away with this revisionist shit.

[JoanArc]

I gather that scene never aired again. I hope someone, somewhere has a recording and will post it, because I hate that they get away with this revisionist shit.

I still have my copy from when I screencappped it  a few weeks ago. you can view it on youtube, but it takes some work. Duggars: All You Wanted to Know is the episode name.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I still have my copy from when I screencappped it  a few weeks ago. you can view it on youtube, but it takes some work. Duggars: All You Wanted to Know is the episode name.

 

Yes it is Part 3 of All You Wanted to Know at about 8:20 it starts.  Josiah is shown stepping forward then he appears to leave then is back in the group and Jim Bob has his hand on his shoulder.  It is very fast and looking at it I wouldn't think it was weird behavior with so much going on but ?

[JenCarroll]

Yeah, that's the cut version.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Yeah, that's the cut version.

 

Yes there was nothing on that one to make me think twice.

[Temperance]

It amazes me that out of all the J's, there is no Julia or Jacqueline/Jaclyn (there were 5 girls before Jackson, not that it would stop them), but there is a Jinger. I also read it as JING-er, like singer. When it comes to names, Jinger really drew the shortest straw. I could also never understand why they didn't have a Jacob. It seems like it would make sense.

Also Joel. Or even Jeffrey or Jerry.

 

Jeanette, Judith, Jillian, Joan, Jolene, June, Jodie, Jamie?

Jasmine, Jacinda, Jerusha, Janet, or Jewel. 

 

I thought Jinger was just a Duggar thing, but then I was reading a book and the author dedicated it to her family members including her sister-in-law? Jinjer. So apparently unique spellings are common in the fundy. 

[andromeda331]

I don't think they'd ever name a girl Judith. Judith in the Bible was awesome. Beheading general of the opposing army. Probably the same reason they never named a daughter Jael who bashed the captain with a mallet. I doubt Deborah will ever make the cut she was a judge and lead an army against the captain Jael later bashed with mallet.  Despite what the Duggars believe there were awesome women in the Bible.

[maraleia]

I've deleted a number of posts that were just made in this thread that were way off topic. Unless you have something specific to say about Jinger or anything she does or doesn't do then refrain from posting in this thread.

[maraleia]

I've deleted a number of posts that were just made in this thread that were way off topic. Unless you have something specific to say about Jinger or anything she does or doesn't do then refrain from posting in this thread.

[hlemommy]

Freejinger on instagram is writing on some photos as if she is jinger. If you scroll all the way to the bottom of her pics and click the last photo she is actually writing bad about jessa and Ben as if she is jinger. I just thought ppl might want to know. This site also has pics as if she is spying on them... like one of jill outside pregnant on the phone. Kinda creepy

Sorry maraleia wasn't sure where to put the pretend jinger info

[Spencer Hastings]

At Jessa's wedding she seemed to beat herself up a lot. She kept saying how unworthy she is and how much bad stuff she's done. What could be so bad when she's stuck in that house?! I wonder if she felt guilty for "leading" someone to want to free her or if she's gotten some backlash for that and made to feel the way that she does. All over the internet, she's the one that people want to free, even on non Duggar boards. She's had memes created with her face, websites using her name, her journal stolen. It's not her fault but she's the most memorable (at least her name is). She makes me so sad!

Edited April 19, 2015 by Spencer Hastings

[Foghorn Leghorn]

In many fundamental ways, I'm not that different of a person than I was at 17. Most of the times I look back and think "I can't believe I did that" I was usually giving in to someone else and not heeding my inner moral compass.

Now in my case, we completed two BAs, my husband had an MA from an Ivy League and. JD from a top ten program and had an international law career, and I've written two novels published by New York publishers while we raised a family. Could we have done those things separately, given the socio-economic class we came out of? I doubt it.

There's not one best way to do things.

Do I think Josiah and Marjorie will go to college and have successful careers? No. But I think Josiah has a better CHANCE at going to college or learning a white collar set of skills being married to Marjorie than he does being single and working for Jim Bob's "construction" company. And he clearly has Josh and Anna helping him out (I don't think the intro was accidental.) No more accountability. A low level political job, a wife with public speaking ability who writes well. A father-in-law who has a real white collar business. A bi-lingual mother-in-law.

Why wouldn't someone like Josish find that attractive? And all he has to do to get access to it is marry a girl he probably genuinely likes and maybe even loves or can grow to love.

Given his choices (since he won't leave) that's not a terrible one.

 

So can you tell us more about your 2 published novels?  Or maybe this question would be best moved to Small Talk?  I am sure many of us are curious as to the subject(s) you wrote about!

[hlemommy]

I can see her feeling guilty. Maybe she wouldn't feel that way if she weren't in that family. I can picture jill telling her that she started it and needs to pray it away bc she has sinned. Just like jill told her to pray for contentment

[EarlGreyTea]

At Jessa's wedding she seemed to beat herself up a lot. She kept saying how unworthy she is and how much bad stuff she's done. What could be so bad when she's stuck in that house?! I wonder if she felt guilty for "leading" someone to want to free her or if she's gotten some backlash for that and made to feel the way that she does. All over the internet, she's the one that people want to free, even on non Duggar boards. She's had memes created with her face, websites using her name, her journal stolen. It's not her fault but she's the most memorable (at least her name is). She makes me so sad!

 

I think that's exactly what it is. I know people have always wanted Jinger to break free because of `her attitude, and they meant well, but I wonder if all that online attention put a big target on Jinger's back by the family. Like they clamped down on her harder to keep sweet and made her feel guilty for leading people to think she was too spirited. And now she's pretty harmless now - all the spunk seems to have been passed to Jessa.

Edited April 19, 2015 by EarlGreyTea

[JenCarroll]

At Jessa's wedding she seemed to beat herself up a lot. She kept saying how unworthy she is and how much bad stuff she's done. What could be so bad when she's stuck in that house?! I wonder if she felt guilty for "leading" someone to want to free her or if she's gotten some backlash for that and made to feel the way that she does. All over the internet, she's the one that people want to free, even on non Duggar boards. She's had memes created with her face, websites using her name, her journal stolen. It's not her fault but she's the most memorable (at least her name is). She makes me so sad!

I've had this same thought. I can see her family telling her that her disrespectful eye-rolling made people think she didn't even belong in their family, and made them look as if one of their children wanted to "escape," and that it's all her fault. She's a captive audience for whatever crap they want to dump on her and she's been inculcated since birth with this nonsense. It wouldn't be surprising if she accepted the blame for it. I've never been on free Jinger but I feel kind of guilty by association. She was far from the only eye-roller; I think she got picked out mainly because her name is so absurd.

[andromeda331]

I've never been on free Jinger but I feel kind of guilty by association. She was far from the only eye-roller; I think she got picked out mainly because her name is so absurd.

 

I think she was also picked out because Jinger said she wanted to live in a city and the fact it was quickly "corrected" by Jill and Michelle that she just wanted to live near a Walmart are something.  

[ShaNaeNae]

I agree Jinger is different looking than the others and her heavy handed application of eye makeup enhances it.  

I'm late to the party, but I've always said Jing looks like Jay Leno.  Especially when she makes those goofy faces. 

[GEML]

She also describes herself as a follower. I wonder if she's the reader, introspective daughter. It's impossible for me to think they don't have one - someone who goes around asking "Why?" Not because they are challenging you, but because they just want to know.

[3girlsforus]

I think she was also picked out because Jinger said she wanted to live in a city and the fact it was quickly "corrected" by Jill and Michelle that she just wanted to live near a Walmart are something.  

 

This still makes me so incredibly sad. 

[Temperance]

She reminds me a little of Jim Carey, with the way her face moves.

Yeah the free Jinger thing was in part, because of her spirit. Also I think now it was Jinger and Jessa who were happy best friends who almost always did their interviews together. Then it was rumored their parents tried to split 'em more. 

 

Jinger did seem sad talking about the tough times. I think she's the next Duggar girl married, but that's just a prediction. 

[Literata]

Jinger did seem sad talking about the tough times. I think she's the next Duggar girl married, but that's just a prediction.

I so want her to end up with Lawson Bates. Not only is he easy on the eyes, but she'd have a mother-in-law who would show her actual love and affection. I do like the Bateses, and I think they'd be a step up for any of the Duggar kids.

[Cherrio]

I know, it baffles me that they went with Jinger of all things, so early in the J lineup. And, as you pointed out, left so many beautiful names unused.

Jermajesty?  :)

[maraleia]

Hey peeps. If you want to you can change your vote since I added those two additional choices after the fact. Just go in and delete your vote and make another choice. I will keep the poll open until tomorrow evening so people can make those changes if they want to.

[RazzleberryPie]

Jermajesty?  :)

Don't be ridiculous, Jermajesty is a BOYS name, at least according to the Jackson family. I hoped for a Jethro or Jezebel. Either way, JINGER? 

[allonsyalice]

I mean, I get having a unique name, having an uber unique name myself, but like there we so many options they could have used. I don't know how the conceptualized Jinger, I don't know how that happened, but I hope Jinger doesn't hate her parents for her name.  

[DangerousMinds]

Never mind her name, she has so many other reasons to dislike her parents.

[3girlsforus]

Liza Minelli sang a song called 'Liza with a z' and one of the lines is 'I don't mind being pummeled or trampled or trounced, but it does drive you bats to be Miss, mispronounced. I think of that song when I see Jinger's name. how awful to be misspelled... by your parents.