The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Sew Sumi]

5 hours ago, becca3891 said:

Society does raise its eyebrows more at an older woman with a younger man than the reverse, but if this young woman is 30 and JD is 27, that isn't enough to warrant much surprise. Jessa is the better part of three years older than Ben. However, I guess someone in the know is aware that she and Jana have been friends for years, so it doesn't sound like a courtship in the works.

LOL, that was also me. I personally have no age hang-ups; I dated a guy 9 years younger than me. But he was about JD's age and was establishing himself in his career as a lawyer. I should have stuck with him; he made partner. 

I just don't see JD with an older lady, unless the age difference is very minimal. Now Josiah? Marjorie may have been younger in chronological age, but she's demonstrated that she's light years ahead of any Duggar, save maybe JD or Jana, in maturity.

[MunichNark]

I simply don't see JD with anyone, period. He is so awkward and creeps me out. I haven't forgotten that photo where he posed with a huge gun, I found that horribly weird and creepy.

I still think that both Jana and JD are asexual, having borne the brunt of everything. Who'd want to get married and have children with their background?

No matter how you were raised, you always have a choice. They've been exposed to normalcy and have had opportunities the average fundie dreams about - so yes, if they stay where they are, that's an indication to me that they are either happy or willing to accept it. Other people have escaped from horrific backgrounds, so.....

[Pinke]

1 hour ago, MunichNark said:

No matter how you were raised, you always have a choice. They've been exposed to normalcy and have had opportunities the average fundie dreams about - so yes, if they stay where they are, that's an indication to me that they are either happy or willing to accept it. Other people have escaped from horrific backgrounds, so.....

Bolding mine. In theory, yes. But life is more complex and nuanced than that. Just because some people are able to escape cults or other difficult situations does not mean everybody has what it takes to do it.

Like you said, it's possible that they are staying because they have resigned themselves to this life. They may be staying out of guilt or a sense of obligation to their parents/younger siblings. Or because it's easier. When you've been brainwashed your whole life, you may be an adult now and may have been exposed to new things, but that doesn't erase everything before that.

Edited November 30, 2016 by PinkyCupcake
Typos

[GeeGolly]

We have no indication that the Lonely J's are unhappy. 

I live in a very Foodie community, even down to the choice of coffee. I'm happy with a Dunkin Donuts coffee and the average cheeseburger. I don't know why I continue to be surprised with the subtle comments almost implying "Poor GeeGolly" because of my uncultured food choices.

I have no desire to follow the crowd and wait in line and pay $25 dollars to eat the latest trend. My point being that just because the Duggars have been exposed to something doesn't necessarily mean they wish they could engage in it.

I'm the first one to agree that leaving their community is always possible, but again when I compare that to my own life the difficulties become more apparent; I was recently offered a new job with more money and prestige, and the amount of stress this opportunity caused me was up there. I had the full support of family and friends in whatever choice I made, yet it stressed me to the point of losing sleep.

I hope if one of the Duggar 19 makes the jump they have plenty of formal and informal supports.

[Barb23]

Re: age difference.  I was thinking it wouldn't be a big thing if the Duggar guys ended up with older gals.  Since they have the aging thing going on (looking 40 when they're're 25) it wouldn't be a big deal. But then I remembered their maturity levels haven't kept up with their ages.

[sheshark]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I live in a very Foodie community, even down to the choice of coffee. I'm happy with a Dunkin Donuts coffee and the average cheeseburger. I don't know why I continue to be surprised with the subtle comments almost implying "Poor GeeGolly" because of my uncultured food choices.

 

Oh, DD coffee is the best.  Charbucks is using mind-control, their burned grounds are awful, Peet's is okay, high-acid used to be in but now that everyone has stomach issues from it, low-acid is in.  Stick with what TASTES best, GeeGolly.

[Almost 3000]

6 hours ago, MunichNark said:

I simply don't see JD with anyone, period. He is so awkward and creeps me out. I haven't forgotten that photo where he posed with a huge gun, I found that horribly weird and creepy.

I still think that both Jana and JD are asexual, having borne the brunt of everything. Who'd want to get married and have children with their background?

No matter how you were raised, you always have a choice. They've been exposed to normalcy and have had opportunities the average fundie dreams about - so yes, if they stay where they are, that's an indication to me that they are either happy or willing to accept it. Other people have escaped from horrific backgrounds, so.....

I've always found him to be weird and creepy way before all the Smuggar scandals. I just have to remind myself every once in awhile about that because Josh makes him look better by default. Here's my now not so secret thoughts about him. I think he won't settle for any girl that doesn't fit the fundy perfection that is Jana but his head is all messed up with the Madonna/whore thing. The poor girl he settles on, will have to live up to Jana (in his mind), have Michelle as a MIL and she will never be good enough. He also seems to lack kindness which is a problem overall for Duggars.

[kokapetl]

I don't think Jana and John-David are asexual, I think their weird upbringing has left them without the skills to go develop a romantic relationship, especially John-David. 

[Malvina]

[Christina87]

7 hours ago, Almost 3000 said:

 I think he won't settle for any girl that doesn't fit the fundy perfection that is Jana but his head is all messed up with the Madonna/whore thing. The poor girl he settles on, will have to live up to Jana (in his mind), have Michelle as a MIL and she will never be good enough. He also seems to lack kindness which is a problem overall for Duggars.

This makes so much sense! Jana also seems to want someone who is a hard worker, like JD. It's not even creepy...a lot of people (even subconsciously) choose someone like their opposite sex parent, and Jana and JD are The unofficial parents of this family. 

[LilJen]

3 hours ago, Christina87 said:

This makes so much sense! Jana also seems to want someone who is a hard worker, like JD. It's not even creepy...a lot of people (even subconsciously) choose someone like their opposite sex parent, and Jana and JD are The unofficial parents of this family. 

Flowers in the Attic!!

[BitterApple]

JD has mentioned marriage several times, so I think he definitely wants a relationship. Unfortunately he seems like the type who's too shy to approach girls on his own and he doesn't have the looks or personality to draw women in. He needs someone to set him up the way Jessa did for Jinger, the only problem is there's nobody in the position to do it. Josh is the human equivalent of cyanide, and Joe and Josiah are too young to serve as wing men. Jeremy could probably do it, but his social network is in Laredo, not Arkansas. As for Jana, I think she's in pretty much the same position. She's certainly a beautiful girl who'd have no problem attracting men, but she strikes me as the type who doesn't know how to make conversation or hold a guy's interest. She's not naturally flirty like an Erin Bates and she's not bitchy and challenging like a Jessa. I don't think either twin is down with an arranged marriage, so they're stuck hoping someone lands on their doorstep.

[RazzleberryPie]

A always wondered if Jana can see through the fame whoreness and wants no part of guys like the ones Jimbob picked for her sisters, and if nonfamewhore guys want to part of the Duggar circus, so they leave Jana alone.

[jcbrown]

4 hours ago, Malvina said:

Where is the "ACK!" button?

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

JD has mentioned marriage several times, so I think he definitely wants a relationship. Unfortunately he seems like the type who's too shy to approach girls on his own and he doesn't have the looks or personality to draw women in.

Exactly. Like other Duggars, he had approximately zero opportunity in the early going to be around girls in normal, non-pressure ways so he never had a chance to get comfortable just with that, let alone get comfortable with how you'd behave if you were attracted to one, or whatever. A lot of personality types can just be utterly socially crippled by an isolated isolating upbringing like Duggardom because it gives no comfort level with people outside the family and no chance ever to learn normal social habits or even observe them. Poor guy.

[Nysha]

On 11/27/2016 at 8:29 PM, awaken said:

Why does joy always look like she's thrusting out her chin with an underbite, and Michelle is gritting her teeth?  

Because someone taught them the "professional" smile, teeth closes, tongue behind the upper teeth, big fake smile. Looks happy, even if it doesn't extend to the eyes.

[awaken]

Stop with the stupid faces. I can't take it. 

[Sew Sumi]

Shouldn't Jilly Muffin be packing to go back to Danger America? The Honduras Missioncation starts on the 3rd, El Salvador on the 10th. 

If they still are in SOS's employ, shouldn't they be back a day or two early to re-establish their house and get their butts over to Honduras before the missioncationers arrive? Or are the Duggars going to El Salvador this year, and the Dullards hitching a ride with them? 

The day of reckoning is here for the Dullards. This is where the rubber meets the road. I think they may do a missioncation, but come back with the family and stay in NWA for good. 

[ginger90]

This was on the Duggar blog along with pictures that have been posted already (as an example, Josie's tea with Michelle). I wonder what the "older kiddos" would say:

Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar are only in their early 50s (Jim Bob turned 51 in July, and Michelle turned 50 in September), but they have 19 children and six (soon to be seven) grandchildren.

Their lives are busy. The couple has said that they get less sleep now than they did when they had a bunch of little ones because they often stay up into the wee hours of the morning having deep conversations with their older kiddos. But no matter how sleep deprived they are, Jim Bob and Michelle are always up for spending quality time with their kids and grandkids.

[Westiepeach]

12 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

This was on the Duggar blog along with pictures that have been posted already (as an example, Josie's tea with Michelle). I wonder what the "older kiddos" would say:

Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar are only in their early 50s (Jim Bob turned 51 in July, and Michelle turned 50 in September), but they have 19 children and six (soon to be seven) grandchildren.

Their lives are busy. The couple has said that they get less sleep now than they did when they had a bunch of little ones because they often stay up into the wee hours of the morning having deep conversations with their older kiddos. But no matter how sleep deprived they are, Jim Bob and Michelle are always up for spending quality time with their kids and grandkids.

Oh please ... ?

[Sew Sumi]

Was that Lily and Ellie's fantasy leghumper blog or DFO? Sounds a lot like the former. I can hear the sound of them sucking up all the way out here on the west coast.

[ginger90]

It's from here, http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/ where there is a new entry and there's a picture now with Jill and a Christmas tree set up. And one of Michelle looking deranged, imo.

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, that's Lilly and Ellie's kiss-ass blog. 

I'll resond to Jill's tree in the Dullard thread (and take the pic with me). :D

[MunichNark]

I actually like that photo, one of the few moments where she looks genuine.

As far as leaving a cult, of course it is difficult, of course people are different and all that. But at the end of the day, we are all adults at some point (well, ok, the Duggars not so much, mwah) and we do make conscious decisions of how to live our lives. It CAN be done to leave, if you want it enough.

Don't like JD at all. He gives off very odd vibes indeed.

[Micks Picks]

Maybe it is a lot easier to get rid of the girls because they can adopt the headship's life (fundy) while the boys have a harder time because they are expected to be just like the old man who is into Gothard.  It must be more difficult to find a girl for the boys.  Both TFDW and Smugger took one from the same family who also has the girl with 11-12 kids now back in Zambia or wherever.    Smug already left the fold for a while, and I remember JD driving for a girl band or something and some shots of him, a few gals, etc in a cabin or room somewhere.  No hanky panky, but still something.  I actually like JD and wish the magic would happen for him.  Maybe it's better it doesn't though, since he seems to be taking the place of oldest boy.  I'd love for him to have some enjoyment in his life other than wrecking the bridal cars.

[Sew Sumi]

Had he trashed Jeremy's car, his ass would have been kicked into next week. AND he would have been on the hook for damages. 

[queenanne]

On 11/30/2016 at 9:12 PM, BitterApple said:

JD has mentioned marriage several times, so I think he definitely wants a relationship. Unfortunately he seems like the type who's too shy to approach girls on his own and he doesn't have the looks or personality to draw women in. He needs someone to set him up the way Jessa did for Jinger, the only problem is there's nobody in the position to do it. Josh is the human equivalent of cyanide, and Joe and Josiah are too young to serve as wing men. Jeremy could probably do it, but his social network is in Laredo, not Arkansas. As for Jana, I think she's in pretty much the same position. She's certainly a beautiful girl who'd have no problem attracting men, but she strikes me as the type who doesn't know how to make conversation or hold a guy's interest. She's not naturally flirty like an Erin Bates and she's not bitchy and challenging like a Jessa. I don't think either twin is down with an arranged marriage, so they're stuck hoping someone lands on their doorstep.

Jeremy getting it done in Texas for JD; now that's an idea.  

As for Jana, speaking as fairly attractive silent introvert woman myself, I will say the men strike me as getting more chicken progressively over the last 15 years, so I agree; they don't speak to women in general, thus if the woman doesn't do the work, she's a wallflower.

In respect of the coffee debate, I agree there's nothing wrong with Dunkin Donuts.  I in fact had an East Coast C-suite boss who's fanatical about it, and unabashedly preaches its superiority over all other chain-produced coffees to the other executives.

Edited December 6, 2016 by queenanne

[Jynnan tonnix]

20 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Jeremy getting it done in Texas for JD; now that's an idea.  

As for Jana, speaking as fairly attractive silent introvert woman myself, I will say the men strike me as getting more chicken progressively over the last 15 years, so I agree; they don't speak to women in general, thus if the woman doesn't do the work, she's a wallflower.

In respect of the coffee debate, I agree there's nothing wrong with Dunkin Donuts.  I in fact had an East Coast C-suite boss who's fanatical about it, and unabashedly preaches its superiority over all other chain-produced coffees to the other executives.

I can see that...I was (back in the day) a fairly attractive, silent introvert myself, and did virtually no dating until my mid-20s, and very little then. In my case, though, the few guys I went out with had the tendency to want to get serious almost immediately, and if I thought, after one date, that they were not marriage material I had very little interest in seeing them again just for the sake of going out. Maybe Jana is like that. Except that in her case she is not even allowed to get to know a guy without the whole family involved, and once she DOES actually get to the "getting to know you" stage, she's as good as engaged. It must be terrifying.

 I met my husband in January (1984) and found that he had potential, though he was, literally, frighteningly intelligent with the typical engineer type A personality which I was a bit nervous about. However, being that he's the kind of guy who makes decisions very quickly and doesn't accept "no" for an answer, I found myself engaged to him by March, then pregnant and married (in that order) by the following January, a day shy of a year after we met...So I can identify just a bit with the Duggar girls  in some respects. Still, it all worked out and we are still married, though I do have to admit to spending a fair amount of time over the years wondering how my life might actually have turned out had I turned tail and ran. I do suspect it probably would mot have turned out significantly better, though, and potentially a lot worse.

 

All that does very little toward solving JD's predicament, though....

[GeeGolly]

I agree that JD's level of discomfort and immaturity was so apparent while he was a groomsman.  He sounded so young and defensive in the 3 second scene insisting to Jeremy that whatever animal hair that was on his pants didn't come from the TTH.

I think being part of the wedding party might be the first time JD has had any frame of reference to who he is in relation to the real world. The problem is he probably won't gain any insight because he has been taught that guys like the groomsmen are others, when in fact JD is an other.

Once again JB's & M's parenting and life choices become apparent with JD. He has spent much of his life in Joshes shadow, paired with Jana for accountability and in the company of his younger brothers. Josiah on down will have a chance if JB & M would loosen the reins a bit, but Josh ruined any chance of that happening.

[Marigold]

JD is just plain awkward. 

He couldn't interact with the other groomsmen and stuck out.  

[Sew Sumi]

9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree that JD's level of discomfort and immaturity was so apparent while he was a groomsman.  He sounded so young and defensive in the 3 second scene insisting to Jeremy that whatever animal hair that was on his pants didn't come from the TTH.

I think being part of the wedding party might be the first time JD has had any frame of reference to who he is in relation to the real world. The problem is he probably won't gain any insight because he has been taught that guys like the groomsmen are others, when in fact JD is an other.

Once again JB's & M's parenting and life choices become apparent with JD. He has spent much of his life in Joshes shadow, paired with Jana for accountability and in the company of his younger brothers. Josiah on down will have a chance if JB & M would loosen the reins a bit, but Josh ruined any chance of that happening.

I read Leah Remini's book the other day. I highly recommend it. the older marrieds and kidults are purely a product of being raised in a cult. Leah was pulled out of school in the 8th grade, but watching her now vs. a second generation Gothard, she's light years ahead of even the first generation Duggar parents. 

Bottom line: even Scientologists work at real jobs. I worked for them, I worked for them, ubkowkingky at first, that I think was a Scientologist company. I was recruited and took their lame admission test to get them off my back. I'd already left est a year earlier, so knew the organization was run by cult, membters. However, I kept my head down and did my work. They loved me. But once I asked to be transferred to a shop closer to home and school,  I had problems. My boss a misogynistic, xenophobic asshole.

The point is, once they zero in on you, there is no hiding. I was intentionally fired right before finals, that dick. Who needs àn education anyway? 

Cults disgust me.

[Arwen Evenstar]

The fundamental difference between a church and a cult is that you can decide to no longer attend a particular church and they won't bother you, except some may want to be sure they caused you no offense or alienated you by asking you why you left.  They would simply tell  you  that you're welcome back any time and they'll leave you be. Not a cult. They will harass, stalk, make threats....

[FakeJoshDuggar]

19 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

The fundamental difference between a church and a cult is that you can decide to no longer attend a particular church and they won't bother you, except some may want to be sure they caused you no offense or alienated you by asking you why you left.  They would simply tell  you  that you're welcome back any time and they'll leave you be. Not a cult. They will harass, stalk, make threats....

Not necessarily true. I've known southern Baptists  to make some culty maneuvers against members who've left. My in laws are going through some super culty things now (being shunned) because they left their Baptist church.

Edited December 7, 2016 by FakeJoshDuggar
My autocorrect hates me

[ChaChaSlide]

4 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

My boss a misogynistic, xenophobic asshole.

Xenophobic or Xenuphobic? 

Get it? Xenu, Lord of the thetans, the "aliens" attached to our spirits that only Scientology can cure? 

Super corny, I know, I'll see myself out lol

[Churchhoney]

50 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

The fundamental difference between a church and a cult is that you can decide to no longer attend a particular church and they won't bother you, except some may want to be sure they caused you no offense or alienated you by asking you why you left.  They would simply tell  you  that you're welcome back any time and they'll leave you be. Not a cult. They will harass, stalk, make threats....

Exactly. Which I guess is part of why cults act toward people the way crazy and/or malevolent individuals do. Instead of the way organizations do.

[Churchhoney]

38 minutes ago, FakeJoshDuggar said:

Not necessarily true. I've known southern Baptists  to make some culty maneuvers against members who've left. My in laws are going through some super culty things now (being shunned) because they left their Baptist church.

Well, but some churches up and veer into the cult lane, seems to me. Some unstable and/or malevolent people get the helm and, gradually or suddenly, the chruch vibe goes away and personalities take over -- and it's personalities and their rage to control others that make cults. Just because you started out in  a church (or other organization or even family) doesn't mean you'll end up in one. If the wrong individuals start running the show, any group can become a cult, I think.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

33 minutes ago, FakeJoshDuggar said:

Not necessarily true. I've known southern Baptists  to make some culty maneuvers against members who've left. My in laws are going through some super culty things now (being shunned) because they left their Baptist church.

I'll pile on to mention that while most Gothardites shun, the Kellers have allowed Size back into the fold, although she did move back to FL, so it could be more of a convenience thing. Esther also left Gothard but remains hardcore fundie, so she's okay. However, we haven't seen Rebekah or Daniel around Chez Keller in some time. 

The only adult Duggars we know not attending whatever church they joined after Joshgate are the Dullards and obviously now the Vuolos. But they retain their hardcore fundie beliefs, so Boob seems to be fine with it. Hell, Jill got a 3000 sf house for free. 

Does anyone have any Intel about the Seewalds? Are they attending church with the parents or going somewhere else? Ben seemingly sort of questioning things may get Jessa out of Gothardism, but I don't know how mainstream he will end up, or if he will remain what is verging on fundie lite. 

[GeeGolly]

56 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, but some churches up and veer into the cult lane, seems to me. Some unstable and/or malevolent people get the helm and, gradually or suddenly, the chruch vibe goes away and personalities take over -- and it's personalities and their rage to control others that make cults. Just because you started out in  a church (or other organization or even family) doesn't mean you'll end up in one. If the wrong individuals start running the show, any group can become a cult, I think.

However even some mainstream religions apply some passive-aggressive techniques across the board if members aren't truly following their doctrine. While maybe not shunning in the true sense of the word, the underlying message is there.

[Arwen Evenstar]

18 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

However even some mainstream religions apply some passive-aggressive techniques across the board if members aren't truly following their doctrine. While maybe not shunning in the true sense of the word, the underlying message is there.

The way Leah Remini has been treated by the Church of Scientology for leaving them was a very public backlash. That was scary.

iTA, there's definitely pressure on the Duggs and other IBLP not to leave cuz bad things happen to those who have left the fold...fear...and control.

[frenchtoast]

And the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster did so proclaim to not discuss his greatness in the wrong topic. He is a benevolent and merciful Spaghetti Monster, and forgives this trespass. Go forth and return to the topic.

(Thanks!)

[Arwen Evenstar]

18 hours ago, frenchtoast said:

And the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster did so proclaim to not discuss his greatness in the wrong topic. He is a benevolent and merciful Spaghetti Monster, and forgives this trespass. Go forth and return to the topic.

(Thanks!)

Then, I will wear a pasta strainer on my head, and trudge off to the prayer closet.....

[kokapetl]

The howler twins become legal on December 30, looks like there may be interest. 

[Sew Sumi]

Girl is otherwise committed. She's just another Duggar famewhore.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[Barb23]

I guess the Duggar Studio & those abortion shirts have been packed away.  Now we have to endure advertising for Fort Rock.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Duggar Studios latest production of Fundie on the Roof...with Boob as Tevye, Xanaxia as Golde, Jana as Tzeitel, Jill as Hodel, and Jessa as Chava 

http://duggarmemes.tumblr.com/post/109362559191/the-new-duggar-musical-fundie-on-the-roof-this

And another scene

http://duggarmemes.tumblr.com/post/109735818456/fundie-on-the-roof-part-iii

Edited December 11, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[Arwen Evenstar]

It's really sad that the Duggars wouldn't let their kids watch Fiddler on the Roof since Tevye at least made a few concessions for the happiness of his daughters.  And the dancing...

[RazzleberryPie]

Why can't they watch Fiddler on the roof? 

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Why can't they watch Fiddler on the roof? 

You'd think it would be permissible, but I'm sure there's a convoluted reason WHY they might not be allowed to watch it...

[Jynnan tonnix]

9 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

You'd think it would be permissible, but I'm sure there's a convoluted reason WHY they might not be allowed to watch it...

Maybe that at the end, in spite of her going against everything Tevye held sacred, he appeared to find a way to halfway forgive Chava....Or not....You know, ultimately I've got nothing, though it would be a kind of interesting scenario to witness playing out,

[scriggle]

9 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Maybe that at the end, in spite of her going against everything Tevye held sacred, he appeared to find a way to halfway forgive Chava....Or not....You know, ultimately I've got nothing, though it would be a kind of interesting scenario to witness playing out,

And that would be the reason it would be forbidden. A daughter going against her father's wishes and doing what she wants  to do. When you think about, the three oldest daughters in Fiddler on the Roof all rebel in one way or another. They're smart, think for themselves, speak their minds... All things that are not Boob (or Gothard) approved.