The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[rue721]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

I must say, I am extremely curious as to what led Mr. Nakatsu into the Fundie abyss. Did the Missus run off with another man? An educated, successful professional willingly jumping on the Crazy Train halfway through his life doesn't happen for no reason. 

My money's on head injury

[Zella]

Midlife crisis?

[Churchhoney]

45 minutes ago, Zella said:

Midlife crisis?

Well, I can't help but wonder if his crisis is thematically related to his apparent embrace of "Biblical Betrothal." 

... i.e., I made a mistake with my first marriage and our breakup utterly devastated me!

I had to run to Gothard's Jesus to be rejuvenated! And I learned so much about the parental umbrella and its wisdom and protection that come directly from God.

So now I'm determined that no one under the age of 40 should be allowed to choose their own mates! From now on, parents should do all the choosing, in collaboration with the correct Jesus. And then my children will never feel the kind of pain I felt after my first marriage failed! 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

Just now, Churchhoney said:

Well, I can't help but wonder if his crisis is thematically related to his apparent embrace of "Biblical Betrothal." 

... i.e., I made a mistake with my first marriage and our breakup utterly devastated me!

I had to run to Gothard's Jesus to be rejuvenated! And I learned so much about the parental umbrella and its wisdom that comes directly from God!

So now I'm determined that no one under the age of 40 should be allowed to choose their own mates! From now on, parents should do all the choosing, in collaboration with the correct Jesus. And then my children will never feel the kind of pain I felt after my first marriage failed! 

Unfortunately that sounds very likely. 

[Minivanessa]

55 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Pre-marital (cough) bunk-bed-fun-time (cough)?  I concur.  But the fact that she's marrying a smug 22-year old, bunk-bed sharing, failed politician with a punchable face is questionable.  Are these character traits considered a "catch" in fundie circles?  Were there no other Wonder-bread Duggar boys to choose from?  Or is she just going to be part of the scenery when Jed!2020 becomes Jed!2024?

I'm wondering about this too. I admit that I didn't read all the "Biblical Betrothal" information that @Churchhoney shared, with deep attention. It left me with the idea that the parents could have been strongly involved with matching Katey and Jed!. I have the idea that after losing control of Jill and Jinger to headships/husbands who weren't under his thumb or from families in the IBLP fold, JB may have upped his marriage-arranging (or at least matchmaking) game. JB is buddies with Austin's dad and although I don't think Mike Seewald and JB are buddies now, Ben's dad was def sucking up to the Duggars when Ben showed up to court Jessa. 

I tend to agree with the comments above (sorry, I forgot who made them) that suggested they kept the "courtship" on the down-low prior to the election last November because they were fine with having the Duggar name recognition going for him, but didn't want the deets of the fundie aspects of his life to be dragged out for public consumption.

TBH I think that arranged marriages have worked well in some cultures, but our culture doesn't like that idea. The fundies who think it's a great plan have taken a lot of blowback from the general public. Does anyone remember that a few years ago there was going to be some "fundie patriarchs get together and match up their kids for marriage" event at the Forsyte ranch? Then it got cancelled when word got out to the general public. I think anything with a strong whiff of "arranged marriage" would be bad optics for the Duggar brand politically even if it generated buzz for the show.

[Churchhoney]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

Unfortunately that sounds very likely. 

Hanging around with "sweet friends" like JB and M and Gill and Kelly might well have fed those feelings. 

[Churchhoney]

56 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I'm wondering about this too. I admit that I didn't read all the "Biblical Betrothal" information that @Churchhoney shared, with deep attention. It left me with the idea that the parents could have been strongly involved with matching Katey and Jed!. I have the idea that after losing control of Jill and Jinger to headships/husbands who weren't under his thumb or from families in the IBLP fold, JB may have upped his marriage-arranging (or at least matchmaking) game. JB is buddies with Austin's dad and although I don't think Mike Seewald and JB are buddies now, Ben's dad was def sucking up to the Duggars when Ben showed up to court Jessa. 

 

Right around the time of Justin's wedding, somebody posted on some-Duggar-related-person's social media, suggesting that JB may have been at least partly arranging some of his kids' marriages over the years. (Specifically, the Josh - Anna marriage was mentioned. And it seems to me that one certainly had an "arranged" element, considering that it was the second and not the first time that they tried to stow Josh "safely" away in a marriage. ).....Anyway, wherever that post appeared, somebody reposted it here. 

And there was an eruption of response, specifically I remember one from Hilaria -- She and maybe a couple others? Duggarlings? really took out after the poster, shrieking that "Daddy" Duggar had never ever ever ever ever done anything even remotely like arranging a marriage!!!! And never ever ever ever would!!!! A little flurry of hgh dudgeon, as I vaguely recall it, anyway. 

And at the time, I thought, Perhaps they protest a bit too much? 

And now, seeing that the Jed/Katey marriage was on the horizon, I think that a little more.

I find it striking that a personal relationship of some length and closeness has been shown between Justin and Claire. But that no such thing has been seen between Jed and Katey. Now that doesn't mean they haven't had one prior to agreeing to marry. But maybe they haven't or have had only a limited one because Katey's family did want more of a biblical betrothal for her.  

I'd think the Gothard crew would generally know about that password-protected stuff on the Nakatsu's site about "biblical betrothal." So they'd be sensitive to what the Duggs might be trying to keep on the down-low as they present themselves as a more mainstream American family for the media....

Because who else would have the passwords to that portion of the Nakatsu website other than people in the cult-that-was-founded-specifically-to-help-parents-stop-their-kids-from-listening-to-rock'n'roll? 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I work with a lot of parents. That's how its represented in my little world.

Came back to add, the highest number I could find doing a quick Google search is 25% of dads gain primary custody after a split. 

That's not an insignificant number when you consider that in most cases for many years now  the preference has been joint custody.

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, I can't help but wonder if his crisis is thematically related to his apparent embrace of "Biblical Betrothal." 

... i.e., I made a mistake with my first marriage and our breakup utterly devastated me!

I had to run to Gothard's Jesus to be rejuvenated! And I learned so much about the parental umbrella and its wisdom and protection that come directly from God.

So now I'm determined that no one under the age of 40 should be allowed to choose their own mates! From now on, parents should do all the choosing, in collaboration with the correct Jesus. And then my children will never feel the kind of pain I felt after my first marriage failed! 

Don't forget he may have been blindsided by the divorce, or simply found himself very lonely in the wake of divorce and in the process of dating wound up meeting wife #2 who lead him into the fold, or decided to see if the lifestyle in the fold would make him happier and he met wife #2 there?  

   

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

That's not an insignificant number when you consider that in most cases for many years now  the preference has been joint custody.

Don't forget he may have been blindsided by the divorce, or simply found himself very lonely in the wake of divorce and in the process of dating wound up meeting wife #2 who lead him into the fold, or decided to see if the lifestyle in the fold would make him happier and he met wife #2 there?  

   

Yes, that's what I said, mom's and/or joint custody.

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Yes, that's what I said, mom's and/or joint custody.

I'm not up on current statistics of our family court now that I've been working from home for a year now, but I can tell you that our statistics before that have been running well above 50% for joint custody for several years now.  I don't think it's likely to be tremendously different in most of the country since a lot of those ideas courtrooms look to come from federal recommendations.

Taking that as a rule of thumb and using a very conservative figure of 50% joint custody, which in my experience is a very very conservative estimate, and then applying the 25% figure you provided about dads, that means moms would also have 25% primary custody.   That's exactly why I said your assumption wasn't as on target as you initially stated. 

Based on recent trends for years prior to 2020, joint custody was generally in place in probably somewhere around 68 to 73% of cases here maybe the last eight-ish years from the figures I can remember.   The best of my recollection maternal primary custody here was running about 22%, and I believe paternal was either 14 or 17%.    It's been a long time since I've been in the office to participate in conversations about the subject. 

Anecdotally, my personal experience is that a great deal of the time where primary custody is paternal the cases tend to be a tad bit turbulent, whether custody was determined by the court or by parental agreement.

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm not up on current statistics of our family court now that I've been working from home for a year now, but I can tell you that our statistics before that have been running well above 50% for joint custody for several years now.  I don't think it's likely to be tremendously different in most of the country since a lot of those ideas courtrooms look to come from federal recommendations.

Taking that as a rule of thumb and using a very conservative figure of 50% joint custody, which in my experience is a very very conservative estimate, and then applying the 25% figure you provided about dads, that means moms would also have 25% primary custody.   That's exactly why I said your assumption wasn't as on target as you initially stated. 

Based on recent trends for years prior to 2020, joint custody was generally in place in probably somewhere around 68 to 73% of cases here maybe the last eight-ish years from the figures I can remember.   The best of my recollection maternal primary custody here was running about 22%, and I believe paternal was either 14 or 17%.    It's been a long time since I've been in the office to participate in conversations about the subject. 

Anecdotally, my personal experience is that a great deal of the time where primary custody is paternal the cases tend to be a tad bit turbulent, whether custody was determined by the court or by parental agreement.

From my own personal experience and from what I've seen online, mom's gain primary custody more often than dads. Actually more often than not, that is what both parents, and the kids if they're old enough to participate, want. The current trend is toward joint custody. But joint custody isn't always 50/50 and often times the mom has the child more often.

Anyway Mr Nakatsu did get custody of Katey and I'm guessing the Nakatsu divorce was between 5 - 15 years ago.

[Minivanessa]

7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Anyway Mr Nakatsu did get custody of Katey and I'm guessing the Nakatsu divorce was between 5 - 15 years ago.

Okay, I may have lost the plot here. Are we sure that Katey's dad got custody? 

[Temperance]

10 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Okay, I may have lost the plot here. Are we sure that Katey's dad got custody? 

Absolutely. Her dad has a blog and his daughters are close-in-age from the first marriage and they both live with him and his second wife. 

[Churchhoney]

34 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm guessing the Nakatsu divorce was between 5 - 15 years ago.

All I've seen to specify the date so far is that it was prior to 2015. Because by Feb. 2015, Kory and Kerry were already together and hosting Gil and Kelly as Gothardy "sweet friends."    

I don't know that we have the full scoop on custody, though. Katey is now 22. So she's been of age for four years already when she could decide where to live without any custody issues being involved. And I don't think Lauren is a lot younger....So while it seems clear what the custody situation was, we don't know for sure at this point....For Katey, all we know for sure is that she prefers to live with her dad and he prefers that, ,too. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Churchhoney

[satrunrose]

You have no idea how much it pains me to say this... but if you're a young fundie girl who is looking for some fame, some fortune and the chance to be a fundie Jackie Kennedy you... (argh this hurts) could do worse than Jed! Not that I think Jed's political aspirations are going to come true; the Duggars are too weird, even by right wing standards, too uneducated and too tainted by Sex Pest but if you compare Jed! to the Jr Maxwells, the Botrangers, Nathan Keller, poor Timmie Rod or even the Bates boys Jed! looks a little less ewww.

[Monkeyrocks]

Well, now I’m confused

Edited March 18, 2021 by Monkeyrocks
I reread stuff

[GeeGolly]

18 minutes ago, Monkeyrocks said:

Well, now I’m confused

Me too. Who is the mom and who is the second wife? Kimberly? Kerry?

[GeeGolly]

My thought was Katey possibly started homeschooling after dad remarried (to Kerry?) and Tempie said Katey was homeschooled for high school. So that would be about 8 years ago, but the divorce would have been before that. And then I couldn't remember the year of the obituary the mom (Kim?) was mentioned in so I throw out a hurried guestimate of the divorce time span.

But between working, snooping, posting and handling some household logistics, I'm not even sure my name is GeeGolly.

[sheshark]

My grandparents were agnostics and my Mom was raised without any religion.  She met my handsome Dad on horseback, broad-shouldered, blue-eyed and Irish Catholic.  Back then she was required to convert, and bring us up Catholic.  She did, but did not love the church going, it was Dad’s job.  When she passed at 81, the priest regretfully told us she could not have a church funeral on Good Saturday, the one day on the calendar when mass is not celebrated, but he could come to the funeral home for a short service. My sister and I had a little giggle afterward, and if you knew my Mom you would know she planned it!

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Me too. Who is the mom and who is the second wife? Kimberly? Kerry?

Kerry (Kerry A. Sheppard) is the second wife. Kimberly (Kimberly I. Flanigan) was the first wife. 

We know Kory was with Kim in 2004, when either his biological mother or stepmother -- Elsie Elaine Nakatsu -- died, per Elsie's obituary. (Elsie was living in Mesa, where Kory lives, at that time) At that point, both daughters, Katey and Lauren, existed. (Katey was about 6 -- she was born in 1998, I guess)

By 2011, Kory was not married, per the obituary of either his biological mother or stepmother -- Minnie Evelyn Moore. (Minnie was living in Mesa, where Kory lives, at that time. LIke Elsie, she's referred to in her obit as Kory's mother). So the divorce appears to have taken place sometime between 2004 and 2011. 

By February 2015, Kory and Kerry were married. And they had been Gothardites long enough for Gil and Kelly to call them "sweet friends" and visit them, with Nathan and Tori in tow,  and tool around with Kory and Kerry for at least a few days of extended tourism in Arizona. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Churchhoney

[madpsych78]

I want to find out more about Kerry's background. Was SHE raised fundie and Kory converted? Or did they convert together? I'm assuming his first wife Kimberly was not fundie. 

When I found the obits for Kory's mothers, I also found it interesting that neither of them mentioned a spouse (whether surviving or previously deceased). Only Minnie's mentioned parents, and of course both mentioned children/grandchildren. But neither mentioned a spouse. I did wonder whether maybe Minnie and Elsie were...life partners, if you will? But most likely they were both divorced and single at the time of death.

[Albanyguy]

Here's something interesting. The Duggars have posted nothing about Jed and Katey's engagement/upcoming wedding on their official Facebook page, which is strange considering that the wedding is only two weeks away. It's as if it's not even happening. It's not as if the page has gone dormant; they posted the St. Patrick's Day photo of Josie yesterday and they're still milking Justin and Claire's wedding for all it's worth. Something's going on.

[rue721]

30 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I did wonder whether maybe Minnie and Elsie were...life partners, if you will?

Actually, that makes the most sense given that both are listed as Kory's mother. Hmmm. Interesting food for thought.

[Zella]

Just now, Albanyguy said:

Here's something interesting. The Duggars have posted nothing about Jed and Katey's engagement/upcoming wedding on their official Facebook page, which is strange considering that the wedding is only two weeks away. It's as if it's not even happening. It's not as if the page has gone dormant; they posted the St. Patrick's Day photo of Josie yesterday and they're still milking Justin and Claire's wedding for all it's worth. Something's going on.

I wonder if they're just determined to ignore the leak and act as if nothing happened? Still, the whole wedding is just super weird. I feel like something is afoot but am not sure what.

I did sort of wonder if Katey is not considered a very desirable catch in the fundie world because her parents are divorced. When I was a teen and in college, I had fundies treat me like I was some sort of juvenile delinquent because I "came from a broken home." 🙄

[rue721]

Another thing to consider is that this crowd seems to consider the wedding the bride's family's responsibility. If Katy's mom is NOT DOWN with this Biblical Betrothal stuff, she may not approve of the wedding and not want to be involved at all. Maybe Katy's stepmother doesn't see it as her place to step in, and of course neither does Michelle. I don't think that explains the massive secrecy, but that might be why it's apparently virtual and just not going down like any of the other fundy weddings we've seen. Maybe this is as close to an elopement as this crowd is going to get, if Katy's mother doesn't approve.

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

Another thing to consider is that this crowd seems to consider the wedding the bride's family's responsibility. If Katy's mom is NOT DOWN with this Biblical Betrothal stuff, she may not approve of the wedding and not want to be involved at all. Maybe Katy's stepmother doesn't see it as her place to step in, and of course neither does Michelle. I don't think that explains the massive secrecy, but that might be why it's apparently virtual and just not going down like any of the other fundy weddings we've seen. Maybe this is as close to an elopement as this crowd is going to get, if Katy's mother doesn't approve.

Good point. Hilaria clearly had no problems with the wedding and especially no issues with famewhoring, so that was why Justin and Claire's wedding was much more publicized. This is the only other wedding that took place in the pandemic, so probably the best one for comparison.

Kendra and Lauren's families were totally down with the marriages and had no problems with TLC filming the wedding. Same with the Kellers and the Burnetts, although the parents of each appeared less fame-whorish compared to the Caldwells and at least Dwain Swanson. But all of these weddings took place before the pandemic, so of course they wouldn't be virtual. 

From https://fundie-names.tumblr.com/post/645887471467593728/introducing:

Actually, yes!  Here’s what I know…

As of March 2021, Katelyn Koryn Nakatsu is 22 Years Old.  Her Date of Birth (DOB) is July 29, 1998.  She goes by Katey—usually spelled that way, but sometimes also spelled “Katie.”  (See Also.)  She lives in in Arizona with her…

Father   Kory Raymond Nakatsu  (DOB c. May 31, 1966)

Stepmother   Kerry Anne  (DOB c. May 26, 1968)

Sister   Lauren [Unknown Middle Name]  (DOB December 16, 2002)

Katey and Lauren have the same Biological Mother; however, nothing is known about her…  Their Father, Kory, proposed to Kerry [Unknown Maiden Name] on June 3, 2009, and they were married on August 1, 2009.

The Nakatsus have a public Family Blog, dating back to April 2004.  Based on their posts, it’s clear that, like the Duggars, the Nakatsus are deep in the Kool–Aid of IBLP / ATI.  Their Blog chronicles their regular attendance at a multitude of IBLP events, including the Big Sandy Homeschool Conference (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018); Family Connection (2014, 2015, 2016); Sound Foundations (2019); and Journey to the Heart (2013).  Additionally, the Blog reveals that the Nakatsu Family are friendly with some notable ATI families—e.g., the Bateses, Burnetts, and Waller–Kellers.

Katey was baptized on March 25, 2012, at Age 13. 

Apparently, the Nakatsus didn’t homeschool until 2012.  Until then, Katey and Lauren attended public school.  When they started homeschooling, they were part of a homeschool co–operative.  Katey graduated on May 24, 2016.  After that, she quickly started evangelizing to others.

One very odd thing on the Blog is a Post from June 10, 2018, entitled Biblical Betrothal.  The Post is password protected.  Not sure what to make of it…

76 notes Mar 17th, 2021

The first post on the Nakatsu's blog (www.nakatsus.com) is the Katey/Jed engagement video. Jed apparently proposed on February 14th, 2021.

Edited March 19, 2021 by madpsych78

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Good point. Hilaria clearly had no problems with the wedding and especially no issues with famewhoring, so that was why Justin and Claire's wedding was much more publicized. This is the only other wedding that took place in the pandemic, so probably the best one for comparison.

Kendra and Lauren's families were totally down with the marriages and had no problems with TLC filming the wedding. Same with the Kellers and the Burnetts, although the parents of each appeared less fame-whorish compared to the Caldwells and at least Dwain Swanson. But all of these weddings took place before the pandemic, so of course they wouldn't be virtual. 

From https://fundie-names.tumblr.com/post/645887471467593728/introducing:

Actually, yes!  Here’s what I know…

As of March 2021, Katelyn Koryn Nakatsu is 22 Years Old.  Her Date of Birth (DOB) is July 29, 1998.  She goes by Katey—usually spelled that way, but sometimes also spelled “Katie.”  (See Also.)  She lives in in Arizona with her…

Father   Kory Raymond Nakatsu  (DOB c. May 31, 1966)

Stepmother   Kerry Anne  (DOB c. May 26, 1968)

Sister   Lauren [Unknown Middle Name]  (DOB December 16, 2002)

Katey and Lauren have the same Biological Mother; however, nothing is known about her…  Their Father, Kory, proposed to Kerry [Unknown Maiden Name] on June 3, 2009, and they were married on August 1, 2009.

The Nakatsus have a public Family Blog, dating back to April 2004.  Based on their posts, it’s clear that, like the Duggars, the Nakatsus are deep in the Kool–Aid of IBLP / ATI.  Their Blog chronicles their regular attendance at a multitude of IBLP events, including the Big Sandy Homeschool Conference (2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018); Family Connection (2014, 2015, 2016); Sound Foundations (2019); and Journey to the Heart (2013).  Additionally, the Blog reveals that the Nakatsu Family are friendly with some notable ATI families—e.g., the Bateses, Burnetts, and Waller–Kellers.

Katey was baptized on March 25, 2012, at Age 13. 

Apparently, the Nakatsus didn’t homeschool until 2012.  Until then, Katey and Lauren attended public school.  When they started homeschooling, they were part of a homeschool co–operative.  Katey graduated on May 24, 2016.  After that, she quickly started evangelizing to others.

One very odd thing on the Blog is a Post from June 10, 2018, entitled Biblical Betrothal.  The Post is password protected.  Not sure what to make of it…

76 notes Mar 17th, 2021

The first post on the Nakatsu's blog (www.nakatsus.com) is the Katey/Jed engagement video. Jed apparently proposed on February 14th, 2021.

Thanks for the timeline. 

Biblical Betrothal may have somewhat different meanings for different individuals and groups, but in general it seems to be code for  "parent-arranged marriage' in which the couple neither dates nor courts before marrying. I assume that they keep that password-protected because they don't want to hear from  people who vehemently disagree! 

Somewhere upthread I posted a 2012 article about what was then emerging as a buzzword in some fundie circles. It's from Buzzfeed, but it seems to be responsibly reported.      Here's the url --   https://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/in-biblical-betrothal-couples-commit-to-marriage

They have another password-protected place on the site, which I find even more curious, actually. It's a comment site related to Lauren's post about that IBLP music conference she went to.....I supposed they've password-protected that so that Gothardites can feel free to communicate with each other without Gothard critics seeing what they say. But it's interesting to me that they obviously embrace the IBLP thing but really don't want to say too much about that publicly. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Boston]

A SAME-SEX MARRIAGE FOR THE DUGGARS.. Now, THAT I would watch with pizza, ice cream and booze.

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

I wonder if they're just determined to ignore the leak and act as if nothing happened? Still, the whole wedding is just super weird. I feel like something is afoot but am not sure what.

I did sort of wonder if Katey is not considered a very desirable catch in the fundie world because her parents are divorced. When I was a teen and in college, I had fundies treat me like I was some sort of juvenile delinquent because I "came from a broken home." 🙄

I think the Duggars do look down on divorcees, but they seem to like the Forsyths and this is Mr Forsyth's 2nd marriage.

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think the Duggars do look down on divorcees, but they seem to like the Forsyths and this is Mr Forsyth's 2nd marriage.

Oh I'd forgotten about him! They're probably like a fundie couple I know who bashes everyone else who is divorced but makes an exception for their granddaughter. "It's shameful! Unless we like you." 

[CalicoKitty]

I wonder how they feel about Forsyth's first wife?  I'm guessing that divorce is somehow ok for men, but not for women.  It is probably all the wife's fault.  Would they associate with her and her new husband?

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Thanks for the timeline. 

Biblical Betrothal may have somewhat different meanings for different individuals and groups, but in general it seems to be code for  "parent-arranged marriage' in which the couple neither dates nor courts before marrying. I assume that they keep that password-protected because they don't want to hear from  people who vehemently disagree! 

Somewhere upthread I posted a 2012 article about what was then emerging as a buzzword in some fundie circles. It's from Buzzfeed, but it seems to be responsibly reported.      Here's the url --   https://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/in-biblical-betrothal-couples-commit-to-marriage

They have another password-protected place on the site, which I find even more curious, actually. It's a comment site related to Lauren's post about that IBLP music conference she went to.....I supposed they've password-protected that so that Gothardites can feel free to communicate with each other without Gothard critics seeing what they say. But it's interesting to me that they obviously embrace the IBLP thing but really don't want to that publicly. 

Yes, I suspect that Jed and Katey didn't "court" per se, which is why we didn't hear anything about it. They likely went straight to engagement through a betrothal.

I found a link that describes the difference. Looking at this, I wonder if Josiah and Marjorie's failed courtship came down to a disagreement between Boob and Marjorie's dad.

Betrothal: Should We Kiss Courtship Goodbye? - Coming In The Clouds

https://comingintheclouds.org/christian-resources/family/courtship/betrothal/

 

[Albanyguy]

56 minutes ago, Zella said:

They're probably like a fundie couple I know who bashes everyone else who is divorced but makes an exception for their granddaughter. "It's shameful! Unless we like you." 

And the fact that Katey's father is apparently quite well-off could lead Jim Bob to overlook the whole divorce thing. JB's never let his principles stand in the way of a dollar.

[jcbrown]

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Yes, I suspect that Jed and Katey didn't "court" per se, which is why we didn't hear anything about it. They likely went straight to engagement through a betrothal.

I found a link that describes the difference. Looking at this, I wonder if Josiah and Marjorie's failed courtship came down to a disagreement between Boob and Marjorie's dad.

Betrothal: Should We Kiss Courtship Goodbye? - Coming In The Clouds

https://comingintheclouds.org/christian-resources/family/courtship/betrothal/

 

Such antiquated bullshit.

[satrunrose]

I would imagine that how much divorce counts against you depends on a couple of things. The divorce(?) was over 10 years ago and we've seen than this crowd will excuse some surprising things as long as you're willing to make a semi-public spectacle of yourself and blame it all on the Devil. I think a divorce would also be forgiven if Kory got hooked on gothard and wife 1 noped right on out of there (or the Devil hardened her heart, as they would probably put it). 

Overall, I think the evidence is mounting for a betrothal, but for ironic entertainment, I'd still love it if it was getting busy on the bottom bunk. 

[Boston]

3 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Yes, I suspect that Jed and Katey didn't "court" per se, which is why we didn't hear anything about it. They likely went straight to engagement through a betrothal.

I found a link that describes the difference. Looking at this, I wonder if Josiah and Marjorie's failed courtship came down to a disagreement between Boob and Marjorie's dad.

Betrothal: Should We Kiss Courtship Goodbye? - Coming In The Clouds

https://comingintheclouds.org/christian-resources/family/courtship/betrothal/

 

I think they did the "nasty" and had to get married.. JMO...lol

[MargeGunderson]

1 hour ago, jcbrown said:

Such antiquated bullshit.

 I wonder if JB got a couple of cows as her dowry?

[beckie]

The only arranged marriage that I know of ended in divorce.  So even that's not foolproof. 

[BetyBee]

It seems terrifying to me to marry a total stranger, especially in a culture where women are subservient and there is no out. We probably know more about Jed than poor Katey does. To me, he is no prize! She'll probably have to leave her home and family and cleave to the weirdo Duggars. What a depressing thought!

[BigBingerBro]

All of the howlers are just watered-down mini versions of Jim Boob perhaps with a slight unique personality twist of their own.  I don't envy any of those new wives.

[EVS]

12 hours ago, beckie said:

The only arranged marriage that I know of ended in divorce.  So even that's not foolproof. 

The only one I knew also ended in divorce after around 30 years of the man cheating because he and his wife were never compatible and never grew to love each other. Both were good people, just not right for each other. 
 

In IBLP, the divorce probably wouldn’t happen, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the unhappy husbands are cheating like Josh was/tried to. Unhappy wives probably just suffer in silence. 

[ginger90]

Video of engagement:

 

https://www.nakatsus.com/

[BitterApple]

15 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Video of engagement:

 

https://www.nakatsus.com/

Wow. The scenery was beautiful, but Jed and Katey are levels of awkward I didn't know existed. After he slipped the ring on her finger, I half expected him to turn to the camera, give a thumbs up and say "Vote for Jed!." 

I also noticed he did a very platonic pat on the back when they side-hugged, which is usually a signal you want the other person to let go. 

The whole thing looked like two actors recording stock footage for a resort ad. 

[Future Cat Lady]

34 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Video of engagement:

 

https://www.nakatsus.com/

That's so romantic and they're thrilled to get married. 😬

[Future Cat Lady]

12 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The whole thing looked like two actors recording stock footage for a resort ad. 

I don't understand these filmed engagements. They walked into the barn and entire film crew was there? Even if it's just some cameras on tripod, it takes the surprise out of the proposal. 

[Snow Fairy]

It happened on Valentine's day. So unexpected

[cmr2014]

4 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I don't understand these filmed engagements. They walked into the barn and entire film crew was there? Even if it's just some cameras on tripod, it takes the surprise out of the proposal. 

I don't think that there's any "surprise" at all. The future bride's mother  come into her room and say "XXX is going to propose tonight. You need to wear yyyy -- and look surprised! And express you gratitude to the Lord loudly enough for the camera to pick it up!"

It's pretty amazing to me that JB has found a way to be even more controlling (Biblical betrothal). It's all worked out so well so far . . .

[Zella]

I'm waiting for my slow-ass internet to let me watch that video--I want to see the awkwardness--but based on the date, my earlier guess about the engagement being around the time of that big winter storm was correct. I'd have to double-check my diary, but I am pretty sure the snow on the ground is what had started earlier that weekend, but the really nasty stuff that ended up knocking out power and causing those historically low temperatures started rolling in that evening/early the next morning. 

I realize there's a good chance that had all been arranged ahead of time and some of this is hindsight is 20/20, but that really rubs me the wrong way. The forecast for this storm had been warning about the potential impacts and magnitude for days, and it just seems massively irresponsible to me for them to not reschedule in light of that, especially when you apparently have people coming in from out of state. Nevermind the whole traveling during a pandemic. But Duggars gonna Duggar. 

[rue721]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Video of engagement:

 

https://www.nakatsus.com/

That video! Did you all hear the "pledges to marry" that they made? This is even more formal and emotionless than I could have imagined. I don't think they know each other at all, this might literally have been the first time they've met in person.

There is less intimacy and emotion here than in a successful job interview. It honestly is pretty chilling to me.

I understand why young people would agree to something like this. They probably don't know any better, they probably don't have real/stable personal identities yet, they trust their parents absolutely because they aren't mature enough to understand that their parents are just regular, fallible human beings who may not even always have their best interests at heart or really know what those best interests are.

What I think is appalling is doing this to your children. How Katey's father, who has himself been divorced, can have the arrogance to think he can pick a spouse for her like this!

God, I am flummoxed by this video. Absolutely bewildered.

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, rue721 said:

Did you all hear the "pledges to marry" that they made?

Jed sounded so much like Josh, I couldn’t take it.