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S03.E04: Episode 4


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Episode Synopsis:

A grain ship grain is raided by starving villagers, and George arranges a harsh punishment for the desperate peasants while throwing a lavish Christmas party to impress the local gentry. Caroline hears news that the Admiralty has arranged for the release of the British officers, but Ross is not convinced. Demelza gives birth to a daughter, and warns Morwenna against a relationship with Drake.

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When oh when will they get over the Dwight as prisoner storyline? I can only imagine how awful it must have been for a young woman like Morwella to have NO say in who she marries. They should have had Valentine have dark eyes but I guess that would have been too obvious?

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(edited)

What a wonderful line by George Warleggan when discussing a potential suiter for Morwenna: "The man is a reptile and a prig, he is also a Godolphins.  Morwenna does not realize how lucky she is!" You tell her George, what does a woman know, when presented with the choice to marry a Godolphins.  Morwenna should be thanking you, George. The ingrate.  Damn, life sucks when you live like that. At this point, I don't know which is worse, the thought of marrying Cary Warleggan or marrying a beloved Godolphins.  

My Poldark Most Wanted Dead List:

1) George Warleggan

2) Cary Warleggan

3) Warleggan Thug WITH Cudgel (Doesn't even have a name, which proves no one even knows what species he is)

4) Last, but not least, a Godolphins

Was the tailor trying to tell us something when he measured the inseam of the Grand Godolphins?  Was Junior Godolphins cold and feeling a bit of Costanza shrinkage?

Edited by Jacks-Son
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I loved George's line too in our introduction to the ever charming Osborne Whitworth, son of the mighty Godolphin line.  That and the amusing negotiations over the Morwenna's dowry for a marriage she wasn't even aware was in the offing were among the few saving graces of an episode that saw George's mustache twirling villainy dialed up to 11 because even now that he "won" he can't get over his tedious Ross fixation.  Gee, it's a good thing you didn't sully yourself by taking that magistrate's position and left starving people to George's nonexistent mercy, isn't it Ross?

At this point, you know all the area villagers and miners have to be looking at this situation thinking "just throw him one already and stop fucking us by proxy." The whole are they pirating a grain shipment/are they running an actual charity was so confusing and full of misdirect that it was hard to follow.  Great, you maybe put one over on George, but you've been at this game long enough now to know that he's going to retaliate in whatever way he can that strikes closest.  And of course Ross does what he always does in pretty much any situation, immediately risk the newfound financial security of his family against the advice of everyone familiar with the situation on a whim.  Although I guess he at least deserves credit for pausing to run it by Demelza first this time.

I feel for the position Morwenna is stuck in even if I don't find her picturesque run toward Drake on the beach particularly moving.  When Elizabeth was trying to convince her to marry a man who admittedly "makes my skin crawl" and talking about how her marriage to George is so successful because she doesn't love him, I would have loved to see her ask "Does George know that?  And would you still believe that if he wasn't the rich asshole of the story who can afford to keep you stocked in laudanum to tolerate life with him?"  I do love that baby Valentine has a head full of wild dark curls though.

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@nodorothyparker, I'm a bit confused about Elizabeth's final actions. Was she aware that Morwenna was pretend crying and in reality was laughing at the thought of being "banished" back to Trenwith? I got the sense that Elizabeth was truly horrified at George's attempt to marry off Morwenna to the odious distinguished Whitworth and simply lied to George by informing him that Morwenna felt truly chastised. Yes, George was at his villainous best in this episode and yes, Ross was doing his version of twisted heroics, but Elizabeth's actions were a puzzle to me. Was she aware that she was actually helping Morwenna escape the horrors of House Warleggan or was she so addled by the Laudanum that she thought she was actually punishing her cousin? Everything happened so quickly at the end and I felt the direction suffered in its handling.

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My sense was that while Elizabeth knows Whitworth is not an attractive prospect except in family name and connection, she also thinks it's mostly a matter of giving Morwenna time to come around and see the practicality of it, which is what she was counseling.  As we saw in George's dowry negotiations (and know from the books), the Chenowyths have precious little to offer except a distinguished name and bloodline.  Morwenna is Geoffrey Charles's governess as much because she lacks other prospects as because George wanted to start distancing Elizabeth from him.  For all his slimyness, George does raise the legitimate issue of what is she going to do when Geoffrey Charles is eventually sent away to school if she doesn't marry.  Remain a poor relation hanger on?  Move on to another paid governess position where as a nonblood relative she's not likely to be treated as genteelly?

I could buy that after springing the marriage proposal on her so quickly and getting so much resistance that Elizabeth would see the wisdom in sending her back to mostly empty Trenwith to cool her heels and think about all of that for awhile.

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Okay, that all makes sense. Thank you for clarifying a somewhat confusing part of the episode. I was able to keep track of all the machinations of Ross and crew in their attempts to feed the starving people.  It was a worthy effort and well-coordinated by all. Sure, George, unable to accept the outcome, reacted in his typical nasty way, and made the whole thing about himself, "Ross deliberately arranged things so that I would be made to look like a fool!". (Talking to George/) Uh, no George, he's just not that into you. Ross tried to rectify a horrible situation and although he knew that you might attempt to interfere and he blocked you in advance just in case, but this really had nothing to do with you. George, you're a magistrate not Lord of Cornwall. (/talking to George) If George should be angry with anyone, it should be Cudgel. (that's what I'll call him because he's unworthy of an actual name and I don't want to be bothered looking up his worthless ass in IMDB) Cudgel helped, but George managed to look like a fool all by himself

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Yeah, it isn't always easy to decipher what Elizabeth is thinking, but since none of her own romantic ventures ended happily, she seems to have decided that love is a fool's game and sheer pragmatism is the name of the game from now on - she is projecting the bitterness of her own experiences onto Morwenna, in effect, hardening her heart rather than sympathising in any way.

George's sidekick is Tom Harry, btw, I believe.

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8 minutes ago, Llywela said:

George's sidekick is Tom Harry, btw, I believe.

Noooooooo!!!! Don't name him. You've given that parasite life.

Elizabeth may be bitter about her own experiences, but she truly was loved by Francis and is probably still loved by Ross. It wasn't too long ago that she told Ross that they both still own a piece of each other's heart. Some people never have that in their lives. The man she's married to is one such person.

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5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

At this point, you know all the area villagers and miners have to be looking at this situation thinking "just throw him one already and stop fucking us by proxy.

Umm, just ewwww! Brain scrub, brain scrub. Mental Image Alert!!!

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(edited)
9 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Never never never venture into fan fiction then.  

LOL!!  I've never actually read a single piece of fan fiction on any show/movie/scenario. You've taken my virginity, damn it!!  I was pure.

Oh, I thoroughly enjoyed Aunt Agatha's response to Ross when he suggested that she move to Nampara: "What and deny myself the pleasure of tormenting him?" Good old Aunt Agatha, she lives to make George's life miserable.

Edited by Jacks-Son
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8 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Oh, I thoroughly enjoyed Aunt Agatha's response to Ross when he suggested that she move to Nampara: "What and deny myself the pleasure of tormenting him?" Good old Aunt Agatha, she lives to make George's life miserable.

I loved that line from Agatha too. I love watching her needle George and even Elizabeth. It cracks me up.

I love Geoffrey Charles. I just like his personality. I enjoyed him going to the christening.

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Elizabeth's descent into villainy is actually interesting to watch. She is almost as contemptible at this point as her husband, especially in her treatment of Valentine (yes, she has reasons...) and now Morwenna. I was disappointed in Demelza , though I understand her trying to protect her brother. Still, it would be easier for Drake and Morwenna if at least one of the families were on their side. Hated seeing Dwight break down.

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What interests me most about Drake and Morwenna is that we get to see the fallout of the Poldark-Warleggan feud on the next generation (in effect), who have no part in the quarrel and don't even know what it's all about, yet they are intimately affected by it.

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(edited)
2 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

I was disappointed in Demelza , though I understand her trying to protect her brother. Still, it would be easier for Drake and Morwenna if at least one of the families were on their side. Hated seeing Dwight break down.

I understand the sentiment, love should not be ruled by class. I think perhaps Demelza was simply reminding Morwenna that people, the Gentry really, would not approve and can make her life difficult. Should Demelza tell Morwenna to go for it after she herself faced such difficulty and derision? Who better than Demelza to tell Morwenna what it's really like? Morwenna seems to be a slightly shy young girl who was born to the Gentry. She doesn't really have Demelza's stubborness and righteous belief that no man or woman is better than her. Demelza may have felt like that at first, but she has grown into a respectable lady in the eyes of all, except George. Demelza also knows that Ross suffered in the eyes of the Gentry by marrying down and she sees her brother as a gentle man, unlike Ross, who may be hurt by the scorn he may receive. I think Demelza is just trying to keep it real and be honest. What was happening in France, is now reaching England, and class warfare is rearing its ugly head. What future does Morwenna really have? Both classes are constricted by these stupid customs and prejudices.

As for Dwight, he just saw a man who he had nearly given up his life trying to save, SHOT, by a callous soldier who laughed and thought so little of others' lives. The thought itself is enough to break down any man. Yes, it's painful to see and it hurts your heart and your soul to see lives tossed away so carelessly. Both Dwight and the murderous soldier suffered at that moment, yet Dwight was the only one aware of what was lost. Dwight's pain is our pain, and it hurts us as well; especially when you see a good man risking his life to help others and he's just tired of all the suffering. 

Edited by Jacks-Son
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(edited)

The thing about Demelza's talk to Morwenna is that Morwenna's romance with Drake isn't the same as Demelza's romance with Ross, which is kind of the point Demelza was making. Ross is a gentleman, a landowner and a businessman. His peers might despise him for marrying down, but he is in a position of sufficient power that he can choose to do and by so doing can raise his wife to his own social standing, rather than descending to hers. Drake is a miner with no prospects and Morwenna an impoverished gentlewoman wholly reliant on the support of her family. She doesn't have the luxury Ross had of being able to choose, and she has neither the means nor the social standing to raise Drake to her own station. She can choose to defy her family, but would have to physically run away in order to do so, being so tightly under their control, and by so doing she would give up everything she has and be reduced to a much lower social standing for which she is wholly unprepared. That's what Demelza was trying to point out to Morwenna.

Edited by Llywela
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Yes, you are right to point out the differences (I'm rewatching the episode as I type this). Didn't someone, Demelza perhaps, point out that shouldn't a woman have the same right as any man to raise their partner up in status? I guess your point is, the woman has to have sufficient status originally, and Morwenna does not. However, the options as they stand are, be with a man whom you love, despite the poverty or be with  a pig and a buffoon in a loveless marriage knowing that the very thought of providing him "comfort" makes you want to hurl. I'll take Door #1, please.

I'm at the part where George is telling Elizabeth about Clowance and the conversation goes like this:

George: "Her and Geoffrey Charles were at Sawle Church today, where the latest Poldark brat was baptised.  Clowance, I believe they named her."

Elizabeth: "Ross and Demelza have a daughter?"

George: "Let's hope they're less careless with this one."

Wow, George, the shit that comes out of your mouth could fertilize the fields of Trenwith.

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51 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Yes, you are right to point out the differences (I'm rewatching the episode as I type this). Didn't someone, Demelza perhaps, point out that shouldn't a woman have the same right as any man to raise their partner up in status? I guess your point is, the woman has to have sufficient status originally, and Morwenna does not. However, the options as they stand are, be with a man whom you love, despite the poverty or be with  a pig and a buffoon in a loveless marriage knowing that the very thought of providing him "comfort" makes you want to hurl. I'll take Door #1, please.

Yeah, it's all about capital - Morwenna doesn't have any. Or, rather, she has just enough (name, pedigree, upbringing) to be completely trapped and at the mercy of the more calculating individuals who currently have complete authority over her. Giving up the life she knows to run away with an impoverished miner might sound the better option in theory, but in practice would have been completely unheard of and incredibly difficult to even contemplate, never mind pull off, especially for someone as meek and sweet as Morwenna, who doesn't have even a fraction of, say, Caroline's sheer brazen effrontery.

Caroline, now, she has both the confidence and the social and financial capital to pull it off - and in a sense already has, as an heiress who chose to elope, against her uncle's will, with a penniless man a rung or two below her on the social ladder, her status and fortune instantly elevating him. But it was possible for Caroline because Dwight was already a gentleman, even if one with neither land nor money, and because Caroline was in possession of sufficient wealth and status to successfully confer upon him (if he hadn't been already committed to the Navy, that is, but if he can just stay alive in prison long enough to be rescued/released, that's what awaits him). And Caroline, let's face it, would not have looked twice at a 'vulgar' working man like Drake, nor ever contemplated him as an option. Basically, you've got to have the means, which is what both Morwenna and Drake lack, and both are young enough and naive enough to simply lose themselves in the moment and avoid thinking about the future.

Edited by Llywela
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8 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Didn't someone, Demelza perhaps, point out that shouldn't a woman have the same right as any man to raise their partner up in status? I guess your point is, the woman has to have sufficient status originally, and Morwenna does not. However, the options as they stand are, be with a man whom you love, despite the poverty or be with  a pig and a buffoon in a loveless marriage knowing that the very thought of providing him "comfort" makes you want to hurl. I'll take Door #1, please.

Demelza said that to Dwight last season when he was fretting about the social and financial imbalance between him and Caroline.  And as Llywela has so adeptly pointed out, that imbalance or the one between Ross and Demelza really aren't the same thing as what we're seeing here because in both cases, the higher ranked partner is at least financially independent enough to make a free choice and deal with any social consequences in raising their partner up to their level. The Chenowyths are broke.  Morwenna owns no property.  Without George's largesse, she has no fortune or dowry to either attract a suitor or bankroll one less well off than she is.  That's what that protracted scene of George and Whitworth haggling was about.  And as George was basically pointing out in his discussion with Elizabeth, if she doesn't marry her choices are either to live on his charity as a penniless relation or seek a paid position as a governess elsewhere after Geoffrey Charles inevitably goes away to school.  

Drake is a lovely person but he's also a young barely literate miner living with his brother on their brother-in-law's good graces, as Prudie was quick to mention an episode or two ago when Ross gave them a cottage to live in.  He doesn't own any means at this point to even try to better himself.   If Morwenna were to find the strength to buck George and Elizabeth she'd almost certainly be forever cut off from her relations and living in that leaky cottage with them as a poor miner's wife.  Demelza, having been raised in that environment and now having spent years living as a member of Morwenna's class, knows full well what that divide looks like and that a gentlewoman is going to have a tough time acclimating to that lower standard of living, possibly ending up bitterly resenting Drake for it.

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Quote

Demelza, having been raised in that environment and now having spent years living as a member of Morwenna's class, knows full well what that divide looks like and that a gentlewoman is going to have a tough time acclimating to that lower standard of living, possibly ending up bitterly resenting Drake for it.

 

I don't get it.  It was okay for Demelza to marry Ross.  It was okay for Dwight to marry Caroline.  But we're expected to accept Demelza's view that it's not  exactly okay for Morwenna to marry Drake?  I cannot help but wonder if Demelza is being motivated by her own feelings regarding Morwenna's cousin.

Edited by LJones41
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I think the difference is who is marrying "up" and who is marrying "down."  Both Dwight and Demelza married "up" to partners whose social status and income/prospects could compensate for marrying people from lower classes.  Drake is in the Dwight/Demelza position.  But although Morwena is of a higher class, she has neither the connections nor income to help make a home with Drake (who is virtually penniless at this point in the story).  She would have most likely been cast out of the limited society into which she is currently admitted.  Demelza knows that Morwena does not - at this point in the story - have the life experience to deal with what a marriage to Drake would entail.

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(edited)

I don't think Demelza really has an excuse.  She never bothered to ascertain how Morwenna would actually feel. about being Drake's wife.  She made an assumption on how Morwenna would deal being Drake's wife, based on the former's class, instead of her personality.  And I have a deep suspicion that she doesn't care having Elizabeth's cousin as her sister-in-law.

Spoiler

 She wasn't that thrilled about it in the novel.

Edited by SilverStormm
Spoiler tags added for book talk.
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On 7/4/2017 at 5:06 AM, Jacks-Son said:

Elizabeth: "Ross and Demelza have a daughter?"

George: "Let's hope they're less careless with this one."

I looked to Elizabeth when he said that, expecting to see some flicker of emotion, and there was nothing. Does she really have no feeling for Julia, who died because Demelza brought the sickness home after caring for Elizabeth and Geoffrey Charles? A cruel comment like that, and it soared over her head. Maybe we can chalk it up to the laudanum? 

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Gotta hand it to the guy playing Osborne; at first he seemed to just be a buffoon, then he went to kiss Morwenna and the reptile showed through... The guy who played him in the first iteration was slimier though.

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George is so damaged. If he wasn’t so utterly detestable, malicious & sadistic in response to all around him, a choice, I would pity him. 

Ross meeting Clowance was utterly precious. 

Poor Valentine — when one cannot separate a child from his or her mother or father enough to open his or her heart to the child, it’s tragic for the child & entirely unfair. Elizabeth regards that poor baby almost with disdain. 

Demelza probably thinks Morwenna like Elizabeth, they are family after all, & not cut out for hard times. Drake would be hard times. No money on either side. 

The Godolphin is gross. No amount of money or drugs can compensate, as Elizabeth knows, which makes it worse on her part to push it. 

God Bless Dwight. Such a hero. Terrible to watch him & his comrades suffer that way. Caroline is a gem. 

Edited by ComeWhatMay
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Elizabeth considers Valentine the reason she was trapped into marrying George.  If she hadn't been pregnant she could have continued as the impoverished widow indefinitely.  

On the other hand, women of her class hand the baby off to the nursery; they don't keep the cradle in their room.

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On 7/4/2017 at 5:06 AM, Jacks-Son said:

I'm at the part where George is telling Elizabeth about Clowance and the conversation goes like this:

George: "Her and Geoffrey Charles were at Sawle Church today, where the latest Poldark brat was baptised.  Clowance, I believe they named her."

Elizabeth: "Ross and Demelza have a daughter?"

George: "Let's hope they're less careless with this one."

Wow, George, the shit that comes out of your mouth could fertilize the fields of Trenwith.

I could not believe that even George, who is now a "father", could be so callous about the death of a baby!  However, I guess I should not be surprised.  My relative lost a baby and years later another close relative referred to that death and commented that the mother had always been careless.  I don't remember the circumstances of the baby's death, but I always thought that was a horribly unfeeling comment to make.   So I guess the comment was not too mustache-twirling, but  actually realistic.

On 7/5/2017 at 6:33 PM, LJones41 said:

 

I don't get it.  It was okay for Demelza to marry Ross.  It was okay for Dwight to marry Caroline.  But we're expected to accept Demelza's view that it's not  exactly okay for Morwenna to marry Drake?  I cannot help but wonder if Demelza is being motivated by her own feelings regarding Morwenna's cousin.

I agree with Demelza in this case, because there are privileges that come with being wealthy or being male that didn't apply to being a non-wealthy young woman.  It's not fair, but that was the reality then. 

Morwenna may be able to adapt to living in an impoverished fashion, but it far more likely that she will regret her decision.  Drake is charming, but we have seen no real evidence of his ability to hold down a job or make any sort of living for himself, let alone a wife.  If he had any property, Morwenna could possibly help him work it--but he doesn't.  She has not ever seen the conditions in which he'd live --if he were not staying with Ross and Demelza, but Drake and Morwenna can hardly expect to continue to stay with them after marriage.  She's seen him outside in the fields and by the sea, where class doesn't matter, but she's not really seen him interact with others of her class or people of his own--that might change her feelings.  Already, she's seen him be somewhat inappropriately forward during the discussion about her attending the christening celebration.

Plus, if she elopes, there may be real consequences for her younger sisters with regards to their ability to get married.  Highborn men and their families will not want to be associated with a family where one of the daughters has eloped.  

For this to work at all, I think they would have to go to where no one knows them and he can work in a mine/field/mill and she can be a teacher.  However, I'm not sure to what extent that's possible in this historical period (as opposed to late 19th century).  I kind hope this will end as a beautiful, brief romance, the memory of which will keep Morwenna happy when she marries some moderately wealthy man.

In other news, Caroline continues to use her power for good.  She is fast becoming my favorite.  Have they officially announced her marriage to Dwight?  I don't remember it being mentioned, but everyone seems to know she is worried about him...

Elizabeth's lack of her affection for Valentine--is it anger at Ross or post-partum depression?  The drugs seem to suggest the latter.  I hope she doesn't do something awful to the baby.

The thread about Aunty A being cut off from the rest of the world and frozen to death went nowhere.  They'd better deal with that issue ASAP.

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1 hour ago, nara said:

I could not believe that even George, who is now a "father", could be so callous about the death of a baby! 

I don't think George is capable of any tender emotions, and that he is a "father" makes no difference. All he cared about was begetting an heir that would take over Trenwith. I wasn't surprised at all to hear him say this. And since it seems Elizabeth has been brainwashed and hates all things Ross and Demelza, the former because he didn't come to her and marry her after Francis's death, even though he was already married to Demelza, the second, I suspect because she's suffering from postpartum depression. It's like they've both forgotten how both Ross and Demelza saved their sorry asses in the finale last season from the tenant burning down their house and killing them.

That said, I was terribly confused this episode--I thought last season, after Ross's mine hit the mother lode, he was able to pay back the loan he had taken out (with Caroline's help) and handed it to George, who refused to accept it at first, but had no choice? So how is it that the mine now belongs to him? Did I miss something?

I'm just waiting for the tenants and workers to riot again. And this time, there won't be Ross or Demelza to stop them.

And Ross realizing that Demelza had given birth and he now had a daughter was beyond adorable.

Again, can someone tell me what year it is on the show? Every time they break away to show Dwight, I keep thinking, just you wait...The French Terror will soon be coming for you.

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19 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Again, can someone tell me what year it is on the show? Every time they break away to show Dwight, I keep thinking, just you wait...The French Terror will soon be coming for you.

If the show is following book chronology, it should be late 1794/early 1795 now (Valentine's birth and Dwight's capture both take place in early 1794 in the novel, and Clowance is then born toward the end of the year). So the Reign of Terror is already taking place, that's why Dwight is in so much danger, as a prisoner of war in those circumstances, and why travelling to France was such a huge risk for Ross.

George's heir should not have a claim on Trenwith, which technically belongs to Geoffrey Charles, as Francis's heir. George has been able to take possession of the house by marrying Elizabeth because Geoffrey Charles is still a minor, but the house should, in theory, revert to Geoffrey when he comes of age - although extracting George may be easier said than done! The Warleggans do have a house of their own, which Valentine stands to inherit, along with George's fortune.

ETA - your confusion over the mine is because Ross has opened two mines since the show began: Wheal Leisure and Wheal Grace. Wheal Leisure was the first, the one George wrangled ownership of by buying out all the other shareholders, and Wheal Grace is the one currently run by Ross, of which he is the sole owner in order to avoid the same thing happening again.

Edited by Llywela
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4 minutes ago, Llywela said:

If the show is following book chronology, it should be late 1794/early 1795 now (Valentine's birth and Dwight's capture both take place in early 1794 in the novel, and Clowance is then born toward the end of the year). So the Reign of Terror is already taking place, that's why Dwight is in so much danger, as a prisoner of war in those circumstances, and why travelling to France was such a huge risk for Ross.

Thank you! I really wish the show would have opened with what year it was! Since I haven't read the books, I'm always confused and trying to figure out based on the age of the children born!

5 minutes ago, Llywela said:

ETA - your confusion over the mine is because Ross has opened two mines since the show began: Wheal Leisure and Wheal Grace. Wheal Leisure was the first, the one George wrangled ownership of by buying out all the other shareholders, and Wheal Grace is the one currently run by Ross, of which he is the sole owner in order to avoid the same thing happening again.

Yes! I think it was because of George's line about how the copper ore Ross found wouldn't last much longer and so he was closing it down. And I was like, wait, what? That's Ross's mine free and clear! I knew about Wheal Leisure being bought out. Do I need to start writing down notes to keep things straight?

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12 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Thank you! I really wish the show would have opened with what year it was! Since I haven't read the books, I'm always confused and trying to figure out based on the age of the children born!

Yes! I think it was because of George's line about how the copper ore Ross found wouldn't last much longer and so he was closing it down. And I was like, wait, what? That's Ross's mine free and clear! I knew about Wheal Leisure being bought out. Do I need to start writing down notes to keep things straight?

Hehe, it might help, but possibly not by much, as the show is internally quite confused at times (I still remember a scene in which Demelza and Jinny's babies were the same size, despite having been born months if not an entire year apart) and has mucked up the timeline in multiple ways over the seasons (a shame, because Graham's timeline is always very clear). I've always said the show needs to flash up a title at the start of each episode giving the current date, but I suspect that would merely highlight how dodgy the timeline has become!

Ross's current mine, Wheal Grace, has a rich lode of tin, which isn't as lucrative as the copper found at Wheal Leisure, but is more reliable.

Edited by Llywela
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For all of Elizabeth’s pragmatism/cynicism about marriage, I’d have hoped she’d show more empathy for Morwenna and not insist a man who “makes [her] skin crawl” be her husband. Yikes. That’s cold.

 I want the Dwight story to finish, too. It looks like next week things come to a head.

ETA: George is a lefty! I doubt he’d have been allowed to stay that way back then.

Edited by dubbel zout
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This ep was really a mixed bag for me.  Liked some moments & hated others.

Every grim, grim, grim scene with Dwight?  Blech.

Demelza, the superwoman, giving miracle childbirth, so all Ross has to do for her is bring her a plate of icky-looking soup?  What the hell is with this nonsense, producers?

Making what looked like a farce/satire/joke out of George selling off Rowena to that gross character, for the sole purpose of social climbing?  Ugh.  Was this a producer choice?

No, Demelza was not a hypocrite in advising Rowena to move on from Drake.  She was absolutely right.  He has nothing to offer her except puppy dog looks -- and that's it.  Big deal!  I thought producers did a good job making clear what a penniless loser he is when he was shooed away from George's splendorous townhouse.

Both of the loser Carne brothers are bugging me, but Sam, with his religious spouting, whenever he opens his trap, & his judgemental proclamations, is especially irritating.

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Elizabeth considers Valentine the reason she was trapped into marrying George.  If she hadn't been pregnant she could have continued as the impoverished widow indefinitely. 

Well, the whole reason the Elizabeth and Ross "encounter" even occurred is that Elizabeth was considering marrying George, so that's what started this whole ball rolling. Don't know if there would've been any other thing that would've driven Ross into confronting her and ending up in her bed. That being said, there's no way in this world that Elizabeth would've ever wanted to remain an impoverished widow. If not George, she would've married someone wealthy, who would take her, sooner rather than later. It's clear, even if she's not in love with George, she does enjoy what his money and status buys her -- let alone how it might help her family.

Edited by Nidratime
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8 hours ago, kassygreene said:

Elizabeth considers Valentine the reason she was trapped into marrying George.  If she hadn't been pregnant she could have continued as the impoverished widow indefinitely.  

On the other hand, women of her class hand the baby off to the nursery; they don't keep the cradle in their room.

I can't remember how it played out last season.  Did she know for sure that she was pregnant when she married George?   Did they say this season how premature Valentine was?

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2 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

I can't remember how it played out last season.  Did she know for sure that she was pregnant when she married George?   Did they say this season how premature Valentine was?

No. She discovered she was pregnant after she married him, and it was Aunt Agatha who threw out that it could be Ross's child, not George's.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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I thought I remembered George with a bit more nuance in the past.  I thought for sure I saw a twinge of sorrow when he heard Ross was burying Julia and some other moments in season 1 where he showed a second of being a human under there.  He just always seemed to forget or push that away in the end to make decisions to hurt Ross and advance his own agenda. They just keep getting rid of any subtlety on him now.  Or maybe it does show a progression of a man who seems to have everything money can buy but still seems to come in behind in esteem to an almost penniless nobleman. 

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I know something of the history of the Methodist church (& know that it's tweaked here), but it was still a lovely shock to hear two Methodist songs from my childhood pop up last night.  The first is a hymn; the second (Demelza & her brothers sing it while walking down the road) was one I learned at summer camp ("Children, go where I send thee/How shall I send thee?/I shall send thee one by one...").

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4 hours ago, MissL said:

I thought I remembered George with a bit more nuance in the past.  I thought for sure I saw a twinge of sorrow when he heard Ross was burying Julia and some other moments in season 1 where he showed a second of being a human under there.  He just always seemed to forget or push that away in the end to make decisions to hurt Ross and advance his own agenda. They just keep getting rid of any subtlety on him now.  Or maybe it does show a progression of a man who seems to have everything money can buy but still seems to come in behind in esteem to an almost penniless nobleman. 

I think it all changed when he and Francis had their falling out.  Maybe the subtle message the producers are giving (and I may be giving them too much credit) is that Francis had a humanizing effect on George.  When they had their falling out and then when Francis died, George became more.....mustache-twirly.

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I think this might be true. Francis was a buffer of sorts between George and Ross. With Francis’s death that’s gone. If she didn’t have her own issues with Ross, Elizabeth could have continued that role, I think. Or Verity, if she lived closer.

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23 hours ago, voiceover said:

I know something of the history of the Methodist church (& know that it's tweaked here), but it was still a lovely shock to hear two Methodist songs from my childhood pop up last night.  The first is a hymn; the second (Demelza & her brothers sing it while walking down the road) was one I learned at summer camp ("Children, go where I send thee/How shall I send thee?/I shall send thee one by one...").

The Carne brothers were inspired by the Wesley brothers, according to the Poldark Society.  The author of the 12 books often used accurate historical facts to mark timelines and shape his novels. 

I’m from the Anglican Church myself, so I also enjoyed and appreciated the lovely hymns and songs.

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As with last week's episode, I found this one interesting enough but not stellar.  The scenes with Dwight in prison were a downer, and I hope he's out of there soon.  I appreciate the great acting but I'm not crazy about the dark shadow it casts over the episode.  The story line about bringing in the legitimate food from the ship in a clandestine manner came across as rather silly.  You don't intentionally antagonize a snake (George) because he'll strike back.  Maybe I just didn't get it.

The much-hated Elizabeth, at least in my eyes, remains one of the more interesting characters because she's all over the place.  Is she becoming as wicked as George or is Mother's Little Helper making her seem that way?  Did she send Morwenna away to protect her from the piggish vicar or to punish her?  Are they trying to make Elizabeth a bad girl because except for George and his brother, all of the other main characters can be labeled as good? 

Again, not enough Agatha for my liking.  Granted, she doesn't need a lot of screen time to make an impact, but I do miss seeing her verbally battling George.  Geoffrey Charles has turned out to be great character for one so young.

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2 hours ago, Pickles said:

This season is not as interesting to me. I don't care about the brothers at all. The storyline of Dwight in prison has gone on too long.

There’s plenty of storylines in the books that could possibly have been used.  Considering we only get 8 or 9 episodes, why have 4 or 5 of them about Dwight being imprisoned?

Cant we have more Horace the Pug?

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