Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[magdalene]

I would have more confidence that Jaime is returning to Cersei to stop her and not to fuck her one last time if it wasn't for Benioff being one of the main writers. Benioff is famously the one who didn't like it that Jaime was more well liked early on than that "misunderstood victim of male oppression" Cersei and stacked the deck against the character by making him a sister raper and cousin killer.  You would think it would be enough for Jaime to be a king killer, sister fucker and little boy defenestrator to establish Jaime's bad reputation.

I am kind of shocked that the show hacks went "there" with Brienne and Jaime but I am guessing it was to make Jaime look shitty for "dumping" Brienne.

In the books Jaime and Brienne were clearly having feelings for each other but I am not certain GRRM would have ever gone the sexual relationship route had he continued with the books.

It sucks that I am going to be stuck with Benioff's and Weiss vision of the ending to ASOIAF.

Edited May 9, 2019 by magdalene

[GraceK]

12 minutes ago, Nashville said:

In th3 midst of Cersei’s triumphant cackling over Jamie’s dying form, Tyrion strikes down Cersei - I’m guessing for Tyrion to do so by the same crossbow Tyrion used to kill Tywin would be too much to ask, but I ain’t THAT particular.

I would love that he does this, knowing that he betrayed his true queen ( Dany) who always believed in him, who loved him truly for who he was , all based on this warped loyalty for this family who hates him. And he dies knowing that he betrayed the woman he truly loves, for a woman who hates him., and worst of all, that it was for nothing. That’s the worst pain of all.  

[kittykat]

4 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

But has the show done the job of DEMONSTRATING this impatience? After all, this is exactly the plan that she wanted to execute upon landing in S701: get this over with. And in retrospect, it would have easily worked: landing in KL before any defensive measures against THREE dragons and 8000 unsullied and 40K Dothraki could be raised, at a time when Cersei was at the absolute nadir of influence (she'd lost The Reach but not destroyed the Martells, the Dornish were still on this show, the North was in open revolt...Cersei's only allies were seabound and incredibly vulnerable to dragonfire. At this point in her career, Dany listened to bad advice to sit back and plot, which ended up being exactly the thing that puts Cersei back on the front foot. Only NOW, when it seems convenient to the plot, does she seem irrationally impatient and incapable of coming up with her own proposals for the way forward. Yes, she should be listening to her council, but would it hurt to have her say something like "Someone please explain to me why X won't work"?

I think the problem is that in the last season and a half (really from S7E5 I think), this show squandered all of the good will it had built up through shoddy plotting and transparent and utterly pointless maneuvering. I know it makes ME less forgiving. 

Unfortunately that plotting is all D&D.  After the masterfully done The Winds of Winter when Dany is sailing with the support of not only Essos forces but 3 dragons and Houses Martell, Tyrell and Greyjoy (they were so strong they didn't even NEED the North), our winded writers (and most of us) probably realized that it would only take about two episodes of good plotting and military strategy to decimate Cersei and her forces.  And D&D have made it perfectly clear that Cersei is their favorite character to write for and wrote Adamantium strength Plot Armor to keep their Bestest Most Favoritest Queen around. 

So Tyrion suggests leaving the dragons out of round one and taking KL humanely, which was then wise advice. But then enter Euron and his Super Fleet and suddenly her Westeros support is taken out; the writers came up with more convoluted reasons to dwindle her armies to make it look like Cersei has a chance.  However, she still had the dragons and its why the Loot Train Ambush is so satisfying because it's the first time Lannister forces truly got effed in the a.  She could've gone in for the killing blow but instead went North and then to even the field further we lost two dragons.

But we know all this.  I'm a firm believer of Cersei should've died in S7 but D&D were never going to let that happen.  Have Dany & Jon battle out the WW threat in eight as a final metaphor of the politics and wars don't matter if the LITERAL DEAD is after you.  But alas, we have a rock bottom Dany and one dragon.  I haven't lost hope for the show but have lowered expectations and I certainly haven't hated this season like most have but I've had my reservations. I've got my foam finger all ready for Cleganebowl.

[Umbelina]

It's strange, but looking back, there was a part of me that was always rooting for no throne at the end, and I pretty much always rooted for odd people at times as well.

For example, I rooted for Littlefinger quite a bit (in the books, show stopped rooting for him after he sold Sansa to monsters.)  I liked Littlefinger quite a bit, because at least he earned his way up the ladder.  Face it, those not on the ladder starved or were pawns/dead/exploited.  He scratched his way up on his own, not because "he was born to it" or felt entitled to it because sperm and egg hit in noble mommy. 

I also rooted for both Arya and for Rickon (and I still hope Rickon has a different story in the books, I realty want to see Skagos!)  He was the youngest Stark, and feisty, much like Arya, didn't automatically suck up to those in power.   I liked his wolf too. 

I had high hopes for Dany for quite a while as well, thought that her endless stay in Meereen might teach her something that might make her a good Queen.  I still hated her entitlement though, she reminded me of Stannis (book and show) just so single minded about "THE THRONE IS MINE!" that she seemed as nuts as him.

Jon seemed to earn the throne, always doing the right thing, or earnestly trying to, he was brave, he was humble, and he wasn't power mad.  However, I like most people expected he was a Targ, and thus just another royal, and that chaffed.

I began to care most about the small folk, and to think, "I want whatever is best for them."  For a while that seemed like it might be Dany and her dragons, but then the dragon ate the kid, and that presented it's own set of challenges, and while Dany did free the slaves, which I really liked, she also executed people without trials, which????

So I'm fairly content if the spoilers are true.  I never expected a happy ending, but I hoped whatever ending their was might show hope for the masses, if not for my favorites from the royal families.

At any rate, I am really thrilled to finally get an ending, GRRM's ending without the no-doubt better build ups the books, if they are ever written, might give.  Fans can wank it into making more sense (I'm sure they will) but after 23 years at least we no longer "know nothing."

Oh, and Arya is alive!  That thrills me actually, if it's true.

[Lillith]

Assuming that most of the spoilers are true, many if not most of the fans will be unhappy. So let's chat about our fantasy endings. 

Dany gets grief counseling, Jon gets depression meds and they rule as co-regents. The North will rule itself. Sansa is queen. 

Varys finds a maester who can attach new junk, and he goes off on wild (consensual) sexcapades all through the land. 

Cleganebowl happens, the Hound wins then after some time healing at an ashram, heads up North to be Sansa's head queensgard. 

Arya opens a martial arts school, teaches young ladies self defense and has regular booty calls with Gendry. 

Jaime feeds Cersei to Drogon and heads back to Brienne. After making him sleep on the couch for five years she forgives him and they have many knightly adventures. 

Pod kills Bronn and becomes master of Highgarden. 

Grey Worm takes Missandei's body to be buried in her home, then gets to go home to his lands and be with his family. 

Tormund finds another big woman, who actually wants him as well, and they make many giant babies who give Ghost all the pets. 

Tyrion gets to retire somewhere with lots of books and wine and finds his long lost wife. 

Bran - I don't care 

Davos - Hand of the co-rulers

[Couver]

15 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Unfortunately that plotting is all D&D.  After the masterfully done The Winds of Winter when Dany is sailing with the support of not only Essos forces but 3 dragons and Houses Martell, Tyrell and Greyjoy (they were so strong they didn't even NEED the North), our winded writers (and most of us) probably realized that it would only take about two episodes of good plotting and military strategy to decimate Cersei and her forces.  And D&D have made it perfectly clear that Cersei is their favorite character to write for and wrote Adamantium strength Plot Armor to keep their Bestest Most Favoritest Queen around. 

So Tyrion suggests leaving the dragons out of round one and taking KL humanely, which was then wise advice. But then enter Euron and his Super Fleet and suddenly her Westeros support is taken out; the writers came up with more convoluted reasons to dwindle her armies to make it look like Cersei has a chance.  However, she still had the dragons and its why the Loot Train Ambush is so satisfying because it's the first time Lannister forces truly got effed in the a.  She could've gone in for the killing blow but instead went North and then to even the field further we lost two dragons.

But we know all this.  I'm a firm believer of Cersei should've died in S7 but D&D were never going to let that happen.  Have Dany & Jon battle out the WW threat in eight as a final metaphor of the politics and wars don't matter if the LITERAL DEAD is after you.  But alas, we have a rock bottom Dany and one dragon.  I haven't lost hope for the show but have lowered expectations and I certainly haven't hated this season like most have but I've had my reservations. I've got my foam finger all ready for Cleganebowl.

This is a great post!

I will give D&D that a story needs to be told. So obviously you can't have the obvious rout that Dany would have dished out upon her arrival because where is the story in that?

But you are absolutely right that it could have been told/shown better. Too much was sacrificed for the sake of plot.

For example I hated how worthless they made the Tyrell army! Even with the Tarly's betraying them there is no way the Reach's forces should have rolled over that easily. The Tyrell army was integral to winning Blackwater. But then they died in a fairly one sided battle against the Lannisters 🙄 Just because they didn't have Loras?

[ursula]

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

Sidebar: I was listening to one of the GoT podcasts (A Storm of Spoilers, I think) and they pointed out that the reason later seasons Sansa is such a favorite of the showrunners is that she's entirely their creation in a way the other characters aren't. They completely changed her trajectory from the books and made her much more central. I wouldn't necessarily expect her show ending to match her fate in the books.

This is consistent with many similar adaptative works. Basically it's fan fiction (with a bigger budget and mainstream appeal) and they get to literally rewrite the canon to prop their faves. I think D & D were always biased towards Sansa - they took out the major, major plot point of her betraying Ned to Cersei, made her fights with Arya more even (with Arya as the brat who embarrassed her when in reality, Sansa and Jeyne Poole bullied Arya) and cleaned up controversial actions like her refusing to kneel to Tyrion (which was also a fallout of them self-inserting in Tyrion but they knew, fair enough, that it won't have been a good look on Sansa to embarrass the show's designated Good Guy.

[spaceghostess]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I like Jon as he is.  He has accomplished so much through the books, and even in the show.  His lack of desire to be proclaimed King, but his reluctance acceptance of that is part of why he has been such a good guy.  He's made mistakes, but he's shown care towards people, the wildlings for example.  Without him the WW would now be in charge of all of Westeros, he rallied people, he gave Arya the sword, he lived behind the wall to learn the truth, he listened to Samwell about dragon glass.

He's accepted power when thrust at him, but he's never sought it.  He's sacrificed a lot, including his own life.  I will never "hate" him.

 

This pretty much sums up my feelings about Jon, too. He's more complex and savvy in the books and I've missed that, but I still love TV Jon and have been as moved by his journey on the show as I was in the books. He's a good Aeg(on).

Sorry. I'll see myself out . . .

Edited May 9, 2019 by spaceghostess
dropped word

[rmontro]

A few questions:

Is it possible Arya might kill Daenerys disguised as Jon?  (I know this might stretch the Faceless Man magic a bit).

How will Yara's fleet deal with the new Super Scorpion 2.0s Euron has?

If Jon stabs Dany in the heart with a dragonglass dagger left over from the war with the Night King, could that turn her into the Fire Night Queen?

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

I had high hopes for Dany for quite a while as well, thought that her endless stay in Meereen might teach her something that might make her a good Queen.  I still hated her entitlement though, she reminded me of Stannis (book and show) just so single minded about "THE THRONE IS MINE!" that she seemed as nuts as him.

I never saw Dany's obsession about the Iron Throne as her being a power mad, self aggrandizing, megalomaniac.  I thought it was more about her family's legacy being taken and that it was now up to her to get it back.  Which is not to say she was reluctant about it, or found the idea unappealing.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

I had high hopes for Dany for quite a while as well, thought that her endless stay in Meereen might teach her something that might make her a good Queen.  I still hated her entitlement though, she reminded me of Stannis (book and show) just so single minded about "THE THRONE IS MINE!" that she seemed as nuts as him.

When by that definition, when Sansa is so hell bent on reclaiming Winterfell and defies Jon's advice, the Northern Lords that are tired of war, writes off her baby brother as collateral damage and asks for help from the man who sold her... she was just as entitled and crazy? More so, since she was willing to sacrifice her brother as bait?

Edited May 10, 2019 by ursula

[Dobian]

Arya will assassinate everyone and take the Iron Throne.  In the final shot, she will pull off her face to reveal... Littlefinger!

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

The things these people are complaining about won't matter 5 years from now. When you watch the show all ot once you don't care about Euron's fleet or how high dragons can fly.

And even now  majority of people don't care about those things. 

People will watch GoT to be entertained. And they will be. From the first episode until the very last.

I'm certainly not going to tell somebody they shouldn't like what they like. I've watched all these years because there are things that I like. At the same time, if I think an episode, or half an episode has been extremely poorly written , then, when I discuss it with people, I'm going to note that.

I really dislike it when screenwriters remove the intellects of characters to get the plot to arrive where they want it to arrive. I think it is lazy and tedious. It's ok if people disagree.

[rmontro]

I just heard that this latest episode (The Last of the Starks) was the lowest rated Game of Thrones episode on IMDB.  I was a little surprised to hear this, because I listened to a few podcasts where they talked about it being one of the best ever, and a return to form of politics after The Long Night.

But I agree with IMDB.  The problem is not only the rushed writing, but people can see where this is going, and they're not going to like the ending.  GRRM wanted a bittersweet ending, but this is way past that mark, and is just depressing.  The showrunners probably want a lot of shocking moments to stun viewers with, but what is happening is that the show is just becoming painful to watch.  Simply killing off beloved characters is not the equivalent of good writing.  If a show leaves you feeling hollow inside, why would you ever want to return to that franchise?

GRRM has said that the five main characters were Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, and Bran.  So why is it that out of that bunch, only Dany's character gets completely screwed over?  Assuming this show's ending is as unsatisfying as it appears to be, maybe some talented fans of the show will come up something better.

By the way, does the spoiled ending remind anyone else a little of the ending of the Hunger Games series?  Mainly with what happens to the new ruler.  But there was also a character in that (Peeta) who had basically gone insane.  One could only hope for such a similar low key but happy fate for Dany that Peeta received.

[Stallion12]

2 hours ago, nikma said:

The things these people are complaining about won't matter 5 years from now. When you watch the show all ot once you don't care about Euron's fleet or how high dragons can fly.

And even now  majority of people don't care about those things. 

People will watch GoT to be entertained. And they will be. From the first episode until the very last.

Actually it's not just diehards knocking the writing. Even casuals who still love it are baffled or complaining.

But I'm not talking about how stupid Dannerys tactics are, I'm saying if the ending is so terrible as the one rumored that it makes people wonder why they bothered it will kill any long term popularity of the show and interests in the spinoffs. If it's just an ok ending, or a meh one, the series will be fine.  

[Eyes High]

14 minutes ago, rmontro said:

GRRM has said that the five main characters were Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, and Bran.  So why is it that out of that bunch, only Dany's character gets completely screwed over? 

I don't know about "completely screwed over," but things are looking pretty bleak for everyone else who isn't Bronn or Sam, too, assuming the Throwaway leaks are correct:

Arya: too much PTSD for a normal life, ends up leaving Westeros and permanently separated from the siblings and Winterfell she fought so hard to get back to

Jon: too much PTSD for a normal life, either takes the black or ends up north with the wildlings and permanently separated from his siblings

Bran: lost his personality to the 3ER, will never be Bran again, mostly lives in the past and doesn't think others should envy him, ends up as a puppet for a ruling council

Sansa: too much PTSD for a normal life, ends up ruling the North alone and permanently separated from her siblings

Tyrion will get a happyish ending if the Throwaway leaks are correct (on a ruling council to help set Westeros on the right path), but he seems pretty unhappy already going into 8x05, and whatever goes down in KL is going to involve a catastrophe he was powerless to prevent as well as Cersei, Jaime and Dany's deaths (three people he loves), so he's about to be thoroughly traumatized if he wasn't already.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Eyes High

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I don't know about "completely screwed over," but things are looking pretty bleak for everyone else who isn't Bronn or Sam, too, assuming the Throwaway leaks are correct:

Arya: too much PTSD for a normal life, ends up leaving Westeros and permanently separated from the siblings and Winterfell she fought so hard to get back to

Jon: too much PTSD for a normal life, either takes the black or ends up north with the wildlings and permanently separated from his siblings

Bran: lost his personality to the 3ER, will never be Bran again, mostly lives in the past and doesn't think others should envy him, ends up as a puppet for a ruling council

Sansa: too much PTSD for a normal life, ends up ruling the North alone and permanently separated from her siblings

I think Arya "not going back to Winterfell" meant that she thinks she will die crossing that last name off her list, Cersei.  If she doesn't die, I think she would drop in now and then.  😉  I hope she finds some kind of life beyond just being "justice" though.

I think Jon is going to have an end like Beric's.  I think that might be why GRRM was so upset that they left out Lady Stoneheart, but I think Beric's death is, in the end, enough to foretell Jon's future.  He is already dead, but he must have task(s) left to do before he dies.

Bran at least seems content and I think his future will be valuable to the realm.  Also, he can warg, so maybe he can have some very fun adventures that way.  😉

Sansa, you may be right, but frankly, she seems to have put all of her horrors into the "at least I learned something" category.  Of all of them, I do expect her to have children, though I seriously doubt her dream of romantic love as a child will ever happen.  She cares too much about the North to not at least try for an heir.

[Moxie Cat]

39 minutes ago, rmontro said:

  The problem is not only the rushed writing, but people can see where this is going, and they're not going to like the ending.  GRRM wanted a bittersweet ending, but this is way past that mark, and is just depressing.  The showrunners probably want a lot of shocking moments to stun viewers with, but what is happening is that the show is just becoming painful to watch.  Simply killing off beloved characters is not the equivalent of good writing.  If a show leaves you feeling hollow inside, why would you ever want to return to that franchise?

I could not agree more with this. I have been watching GOT reruns and marathons for years. I love it because of the characters and the periodic moments of triumph, like the dragons' birth, Dany outhinking the warlocks, Dany conning the Astapor masters (basically most annual Dany triumphs), Jon's resurrection, Brienne saving Sansa, the reclaiming of Winterfell, Jorah being forgiven by Dany, Tyrion shooting Tywin, etc. The show was always good about balancing terrible tragedies with wins for its main characters.

But I don't see any wins coming in these last 2 episodes, and I would guess the audience doesn't either. I will have a very hard time rewatching this show, or even reading the books-to-come, knowing the depressing ending. Yes, maybe in life the good guys die before the story ends. But that doesn't a beloved series make. I actually dread watching the last two episodes. I was so excited to watch this season (for years! like so many people!), and now I find myself pausing the live shows and doing housework in between, just because it's so stressful and unpleasant.

"Bittersweet" is not Frodo and Sam dying on Mount Doom. Bittersweet is most characters surviving, but characters having to live with their histories and consequences.

[Advance35]

Quote

I think some people expected too much. And some people just want to see GoT fails.  But it won't. As I said, 5 years from now when someone binge-watches the show he will enjoy it. 

But now it's Jane Goldman's turn to face toxic fandom. 

I still see the show getting a lot of love.  This is one of the few forums I visit for the show but I'm on fashion blogs and gossip blogs and everyone is really excited to see how it all ends.

After all these years the question of who sits on the Iron Throne will finally be answered and for that reason alone I am enjoying this season.   GRRM is never going to finish the books so I don't really care about his thoughts on the matter.  He told them the fate of each of the major characters, that's enough for me.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I just heard that this latest episode (The Last of the Starks) was the lowest rated Game of Thrones episode on IMDB.  I was a little surprised to hear this, because I listened to a few podcasts where they talked about it being one of the best ever, and a return to form of politics after The Long Night.

But I agree with IMDB.  The problem is not only the rushed writing, but people can see where this is going, and they're not going to like the ending.  GRRM wanted a bittersweet ending, but this is way past that mark, and is just depressing.  The showrunners probably want a lot of shocking moments to stun viewers with, but what is happening is that the show is just becoming painful to watch.  Simply killing off beloved characters is not the equivalent of good writing.  If a show leaves you feeling hollow inside, why would you ever want to return to that franchise?

GRRM has said that the five main characters were Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, and Bran.  So why is it that out of that bunch, only Dany's character gets completely screwed over?  Assuming this show's ending is as unsatisfying as it appears to be, maybe some talented fans of the show will come up something better.

By the way, does the spoiled ending remind anyone else a little of the ending of the Hunger Games series?  Mainly with what happens to the new ruler.  But there was also a character in that (Peeta) who had basically gone insane.  One could only hope for such a similar low key but happy fate for Dany that Peeta received.

I can enjoy literally any outcome, as long as the characters are real people as they arrive at that outcome. The issue I have now is that it  appears the characters are becoming plot devices.

[JennyMominFL]

36 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

I still see the show getting a lot of love.  This is one of the few forums I visit for the show but I'm on fashion blogs and gossip blogs and everyone is really excited to see how it all ends.

After all these years the question of who sits on the Iron Throne will finally be answered and for that reason alone I am enjoying this season.   GRRM is never going to finish the books so I don't really care about his thoughts on the matter.  He told them the fate of each of the major characters, that's enough for me.

This is what I am seeing IRL too mostly. My sons have both watchhed the series through  7 and 5 times respectively and they are loving this season. They are not spoiled  so i wonder what their reaction will be if the spoilers are true.

Im enjoying this season a lot. Ive never read the books and Im not a fantasy fan. I dont care about dragons and all and i have watched for the politics and characters

Edited May 10, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[anamika]

The actors have been telling us now for some time that the ending sucked. Maisie constantly talking about how they have filmed it now and they just have to accept it and move on, Liam and Conleth not looking to happy when asked about the ending and team Targ straight up telling us that it sucked

Sophie was hyping the Dany Vs Sansa conflict and folks here were like, that's only going to last an episode. There's no reason for Sansa to hate on Dany, they are so similar!  But hating on Dany was literally Sansa's only plot this season, it lasted the whole season and she's actively scheming against her, lol.  Gwendoline making noises in her interviews about how she is not happy with the ending etc.

We just thought they were trying to throw us off the ending, but it seems to be all true at this point.

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The issue I have now is that it  appears the characters are becoming plot devices.

They have been plot devices for some time now. Characters have been plot driven ever since the show runners ran out of book material. Jon's entire story for 3 seasons now is plot driven - nothing affects or changes him, he exists to drive the plot for other characters.

Edited May 10, 2019 by anamika

[GraceK]

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

The actors have been telling us now for some time that the ending sucked. Maisie constantly talking about how they have filmed it now and they just have to accept it and move on, Liam and Conleth not looking to happy when asked about the ending and team Targ straight up telling us that it sucked

Sophie was hyping the Dany Vs Sansa conflict and folks here were like, that's only going to last an episode. There's no reason for Sansa to hate on Dany, they are so similar!  But hating on Dany was literally Sansa's only plot this season, it lasted the whole season and she's actively scheming against her, lol.  Gwendoline making noises in her interviews about how she is not happy with the ending etc.

We just thought they were trying to throw us off the ending, but it seems to be all true at this point.

They have been plot devices for some time now. Characters have been plot driven ever since the show runners ran out of book material. Jon's entire story for 3 seasons now is plot driven - nothing affects or changes him, he exists to drive the plot for other characters.

Nathalie did a good job hiding it!!’😂😂😂 I love Jacob and Emelia’s reaction though 😆

[Oscirus]

Sansa's hatred of Dany for Northern independence and trust of Tyrion for not raping her is laughable

The amount of shit that Dany has to go through for her to turn evil is worse

Tyrions determination to save Cersei in spite of herself is worse

Euron's  ability to appear wherever the plot needs him is insanity.

and either ending is just holy shit eight years for this? bad

Yea there are people that still like the show, but if you divided fandom in half, you didn't do a good job.  

Though if it is the king bran ending, Im going to lmao watching people trying to justify that

Edited May 10, 2019 by Oscirus

[Eyes High]

21 minutes ago, anamika said:

The actors have been telling us now for some time that the ending sucked. Maisie constantly talking about how they have filmed it now and they just have to accept it and move on, Liam and Conleth not looking to happy when asked about the ending

It was Conleth who made a sour expression, which makes sense given that Varys' life work ends in utter disaster and Varys dies trying to stop the queen he thought would be the best choice for Westeros.

Quote

Sophie was hyping the Dany Vs Sansa conflict and folks here were like, that's only going to last an episode.

Guilty as charged. Usually they don't give away major plot points for the season in the preseason promotional materials, but Dany vs. Sansa has proved to have a lot more longevity than I thought it would.

Quote

Gwendoline making noises in her interviews about how she is not happy with the ending etc.

Assuming 8x04 marks the end of Brienne's plot for the season, that's hardly surprising.

Quote

We just thought they were trying to throw us off the ending, but it seems to be all true at this point.

Nikolaj seemed happy enough, despite Jaime being sucked back into Cersei's orbit (the thing Nikolaj hated about S7). He must feel vindicated about Dany. Remember those mysterious comments Nikolaj made about how the ending is like a murder mystery reveal of the killer where it actually makes sense? The "killer" is Dany.

Peter Dinklage has also praised the ending. His comments to Anderson Cooper (I think) about how the ending made him question himself make a lot more sense in light of 8x04 and what appears to be Dany's downfall, since Tyrion and the audience believed so wholeheartedly in Dany's fitness to be queen:

Quote

It brings everybody into it. And what we thought. It questions everything, which I love. It really makes you question yourself. I did, when I was reading it. It just, it really...and not in any sort of snarky way. In a beautiful way.

And then he said this to EW.com, which again makes a lot more sense in light of what we now know (or can reasonably assume) about the ending:

Quote

Continued Dinklage: “I had all these ideas in my head and a version of one of them is how it ends up [for Tyrion]. David and Dan have a brilliant version of what I had. If I use any adjectives it will give it away. But I love how it ended up. And how it ends up for everybody. They had a beautiful gentle touch with some and a hard touch with others.”

He then added, a bit forebodingly: “We’re so used to the standard formula of bad guys dying and good guys living…What David and Dan have done with all this is beautiful, painful, and lovely. It takes the show somewhere that’s dangerous and contemporary with what’s going on in the world.”

"A version of one of them is how it ends up [for Tyrion]": Tyrion on a ruling council after the Iron Throne is melted down? (Peter Dinklage in years past has talked about wanting to see the Iron Throne destroyed.) 

"If I use any adjectives it will give away": No idea what he means here.

"They had a beautiful gentle touch with some and a hard touch with others": Sam/Gilly and in a twisted way Jaime/Cersei for the beautiful gentle touch, hard touch for...everyone else, it seems, especially Brienne, Missandei/Grey Worm, etc.

"We're so used to the standard formula of bad guys dying and good guys living...": I'd be shocked if any of the "bad guys" lived, but I think he's talking here about Dany's death.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Eyes High

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

It was Conleth who made a sour expression, which makes sense given that Varys' life work ends in utter disaster and Varys dies trying to stop the queen he thought would be the best choice for Westeros.

Guilty as charged. Usually they don't give away major plot points for the season in the preseason promotional materials, but Dany vs. Sansa has proved to have a lot more longevity than I thought it would.

Assuming 8x04 marks the end of Brienne's plot for the season, that's hardly surprising.

Nikolaj seemed happy enough, despite Jaime being sucked back into Cersei's orbit (the thing Nikolaj hated about S7). He must feel vindicated about Dany.

Peter Dinklage has also praised the ending. His comments to Anderson Cooper (I think) about how the ending made him question himself make a lot more sense in light of 8x04 and what appears to be Dany's downfall.

And then he said this to EW.com, which again makes a lot more sense in light of what we now know (or can reasonably assume) about the ending:

"A version of one of them is how it ends up [for Tyrion]": Tyrion on a ruling council after the Iron Throne is melted down? (Peter Dinklage in years past has talked about wanting to see the Iron Throne destroyed.) 

"If I use any adjectives it will give away": No idea what he means here.

"They had a beautiful gentle touch with some and a hard touch with others": Sam/Gilly and in a twisted way Jaime/Cersei for the beautiful gentle touch, hard touch for...everyone else, it seems, especially Brienne, Missandei/Grey Worm, etc.

"We're so used to the standard formula of bad guys dying and good guys living...": I'd be shocked if any of the "bad guys" lived, but I think he's talking here about Dany's death.

Contemporary with what’s going with the world?  Could mean powerful women being gaslighted and taken down so men can rule?🙄

[Minneapple]

The actors have all done interviews where they've raved about how brave and awesome and creative and amazing this season is. Emilia was just on Kimmel's show and talked about it, and about how big episode 5 will be. Kit talked about how much he liked 8x04. Liam Cunningham on Conan just yesterday called the ending "fantastic." 

Also, first Joey Bosa, now Aaron Rodgers has a cameo on the show.

[rmontro]

31 minutes ago, anamika said:

There's no reason for Sansa to hate on Dany, they are so similar!  But hating on Dany was literally Sansa's only plot this season

True.  And seriously, Dany has enough bad stuff piled on top of her already without Sansa hating on her too.

16 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Peter Dinklage has also praised the ending.

Easy for him to say.  As much as I like Dinklage, it sounds like his character comes out of this in better shape than anyone.  

By the way, if the spoilers are true that Tyrion helps Cersei frame Daeneryus by planting wildfire everywhere, I don't see how he can do that.  He was the one who was so concerned that King's Landing was going to be burned down, and then he helps commit arson on it?  I don't see how that can be true.

[anamika]

Game of thrones reputation after the season ends - Well, the fashion and gossip blogs loved it so I guess it's all good.

After dissing on Lost and BSG's ending for being shitty, I would like to see GRRM's response to how GOT ends. Maybe Damon Lindelof will have something to say this time around.

This is what GRRM said about Lost:

Quote

“We watched [Lost] every week trying to figure it out, and as it got deeper and deeper I kept saying, ‘They better have something good in mind for the end. This better pay off here.’ And then I felt so cheated when we got to the conclusion.” Martin also cites the Lost ending as the type of mistake he fears making with his own show, saying, “I want to give them something terrific. What if I f— it up at the end? What if I do a Lost? Then they’ll come after me with pitchforks and torches.”

https://ew.com/article/2011/04/05/thrones-author-lost/

This was said the year GOT started and a year after Lost ended. 

[Eyes High]

9 minutes ago, rmontro said:

By the way, if the spoilers are true that Tyrion helps Cersei frame Daeneryus by planting wildfire everywhere, I don't see how he can do that.  He was the one who was so concerned that King's Landing was going to be burned down, and then he helps commit arson on it?  I don't see how that can be true.

Those spoilers are probably foilers, a last-ditch attempt to absolve Dany of responsibility for doing the thing that she's been set up to do, that apparently she has been destined to do all along: go full Dracarys on KL.

Joe Dempsie made an interesting comment to the NY Times in a recent interview about Gendry as a potential ruler:

Quote

Maybe he’s not quite bright enough to rule, but he certainly understands the plight of common folk in a way that not many past leaders of Westeros have.

Assuming that comment was influenced by Joe Dempsie's knowledge of the endgame, "Not quite bright enough to rule" would also rule out TV Jon, one would think, since the writers have painted him as such a dim bulb.

Quote

After dissing on Lost and BSG's ending for being shitty, I would like to see GRRM's response to how GOT ends. 

GRRM has gotten extremely passive aggressive on his blog: praising other stuff like the new Avengers movie and ignoring the GOT episodes. He'd better start working on a strategy soon, though, or else he's going to have to go into witness protection after the finale airs.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Eyes High

[anamika]

21 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Contemporary with what’s going with the world?  Could mean powerful women being gaslighted and taken down so men can rule?🙄

See, if they write it as Tyrion actually gaslighting her, it makes sense. But the writing is telling us that Tyrion is actually the noblest of souls, the gentlest, the kindest, the smartes who only wants what's best for mankind. There was this post on Reddit, which points out the Dany's battle strategies are actually smart, but Tyrion keeps advising against them:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bml3mw/heres_a_reminder_that_danys_own_battle_tactics_in/

Now if Tyrion was acting like Varys whispering in the Mad King's ear and bringing about his downfall - that would make sense. He was deliberately sabotaging Dany and making her go mad. But instead when Dany is rightfully suspicious of Tyrion, everyone around Dany keeps telling her about how Tyrion is the smartest ever and that she needs to trust. Why in the world would Jorah ask Dany to go along with Tyrion after he saw how all of Tyrion's plans failed?

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, anamika said:

mad. But instead when Dany is rightfully suspicious of Tyrion, everyone around Dany keeps telling her about how Tyrion is the smartest ever and that she needs to trust. Why in the world would Jorah ask Dany to go along with Tyrion after he saw how all of Tyrion's plans failed?

To be fair, Jorah wasn’t around for those particular decisions. I don’t think he realized the extent of the damage Tyrion did. 

But yes, Tyrion has singlehandedly been the worst advisor ever. EVER. I mean seriously Dany making him her hand was signing her death warrant. I can almost hear Tywin giggling from the grave.

Edited May 10, 2019 by GraceK

[Raachel2008]

12 hours ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

for Tyrion, I think we are supposed to believe that he cares tremendously for that baby, even more than Cersei herself. But It's really baffling. Why? Is it established that he can't have children on his own?

Tyrion always cared about Cersei’s children, even Joffrey.

[anamika]

Just now, GraceK said:

To be fair, Jorah wasn’t around for those particular decisions. I don’t think he realized the extent of the damage Tyrion did. 

Surely he would have been updated on what happened to Dany's ships and allies after he got to Dragonstone? But with the writing on this show, where characters forget stuff from scene to scene, maybe not. 

[Andromeda]

I planned to remain unspoiled. But I was so distressed with Ep. 4, I took a peek. Now I'm completely spoiled, both from here, and the huge Reddit thread.

What disturbs me the most are the ends for the characters. I've read all the books. Yes, it's a tough world; yes, bad things happen. But bad things happening to so many of the characters I love? It's worse than the worst. It's like the high, "Yeah!" moments are no longer part of the equation. For instance, the Red Wedding was shocking, but we got revenge with Arya. Same with the cavalry riding in to save the day in the Battle of the Bastards. And Dany using her dragon to free the Unsullied. And Tyrion killing his father. Those moments are important, too.

So, just because I'm frustrated and can't stop thinking about it, here are my feelings on where each of my faves appear to be headed:

Tyrion: I was so excited when he joined Dany's team. It felt destined. He was finally with someone who valued his input and saw how clever he was. Then his IQ took a huge nosedive, and he kept underestimating his sister, who wanted him dead, and steering Dany wrong. Now I'm to believe he goes out of his way to save the bitch? The one who despises him? He was ready and able to kill his own father — why does he care that much for his sister? It's so puzzling. I surprise myself, but I won't cry if he ends up dead.

Dany: OMG, this one is the worst. I see no signs of instability. Ruthlessness, yes, but no more than Robert, Stannis, even Jon, and dozens of others. Her actions for me have been a reflection of the world she lives in. She was alone, powerless, and she managed to tap into a deep well of power and (surprise!) magic to make something of herself and gather a devoted following. But none of that matters, apparently, because she was born nuts. So the message is you can't get away from your parentage. Or that women can't handle power. It's so disappointing because she got a hero's edit (that music, it stirs me every time). So I feel bait-and-switched, if that makes sense. As in, "Oh, you thought you were getting a genuine heroine who cared about the smallfolk, but instead she's a monster! hahahaha." I also don't see why nothing is explored about her ability to withstand fire, a trait which — along with her ability to birth dragons — has made her seem "destined" for something great. So much for that. 

Jamie: So he's just as stuck on Cersei as he's ever been. When he finally left her behind and went to Winterfell, I actually thought he'd grown. When he knighted Brienne, I thought it showed growth in his understanding of what makes people special (the sex less so.) I was thrilled that everyone accepted him into the fold, onto Team Dany. But he's the same guy he always was. He might as well have never met Brienne.

Jon: Why, exactly, was he brought back from the dead again? Why did Melissandre act like bringing fire and ice together was such a big deal? What was that all about anyway? He's so wooden — they're telling me he loves Dany, but I'm not really seeing it. I don't really know what he feels about anything. It's like he's just going through the motions. And why the big reveal about his sperm donor? Why does he think he's no longer a Stark, when his Aunt is one? Who cares who his father was if nothing comes of it/ What a giant MacGuffin.

Arya: Just leaves Winterfell, says she's not coming back. Why? No goodbyes? No emotion? WTF? What are her plans, what does she want for her life? Does anyone know? I love her, so please show, tell me what's going on with her.

The Hound: Headed for Clegane Bowl, where he dies. So he doesn't even have a moment to celebrate that he put down his evil brother.

Sansa: I thought she genuinely like Tyrion, but now she wants him dead. I'm just confused. I expected/hoped she'd learn from Littlefinger, but I didn't think she'd lose her soul and become Littlefinger.

Varys: I always admired and rooted for Varys. Where Littlefinger was so self-centered, Varys seemed to care for the unwashed masses. But his sudden, inexplicable turn against Dany has turned me against him. I won't cry when he fries.

Grayworm: Out of the blue, he turns into a monster. No nice beach for him. Well, that sucks. 

Davos: Seems he might escape unscathed. I adore Davos.

Bran: All I have to say about him and his journey is:

Edited May 10, 2019 by Andromeda

[Oscirus]

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

See, if they write it as Tyrion actually gaslighting her, it makes sense. But the writing is telling us that Tyrion is actually the noblest of souls, the gentlest, the kindest, the smartes who only wants what's best for mankind. There was this post on Reddit, which points out the Dany's battle strategies are actually smart, but Tyrion keeps advising against them:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bml3mw/heres_a_reminder_that_danys_own_battle_tactics_in/

Now if Tyrion was acting like Varys whispering in the Mad King's ear and bringing about his downfall - that would make sense. He was deliberately sabotaging Dany and making her go mad. But instead when Dany is rightfully suspicious of Tyrion, everyone around Dany keeps telling her about how Tyrion is the smartest ever and that she needs to trust. Why in the world would Jorah ask Dany to go along with Tyrion after he saw how all of Tyrion's plans failed?

She was never paranoid about Tyrion, she was questioning his competence.  Which, yea he's not a good war commander.  And the reasons tyrion stopped her was not the ones that article listed.

Besides nobody defended how wrong the ideas were just that Tyrion would learn from his mistakes.

[blixie]

Quote

The actors have all done interviews where they've raved about how brave and awesome and creative and amazing this season is.

That is literally their job, it's why they are sent out to the press to sell the show to tell you it's good it's great you should watch. That many have been unable to mask their own disappointment/ambivalence is pretty telling (although like was mentioned it still could be an act in itself to lower expectations generally). Dinklage comments sound like a well practiced tornado of bullshit, a long winded complisult especially "a soft touch with some, a hard touch with others". Oh this thing they did wow it wasn't where  I thought it was going, which is all the show needed to do surprise everyone with bell induced insanity.  
 

[Raachel2008]

10 hours ago, Night Person said:

I think the thing that bothers me most is that D&D seem more interested in shocking the audience than in telling a good story.  It is as if they believe the hype that GOT has been popular primarily because of unexpected plot twists (Ned’s execution, the Red Wedding) and have decided to make faking out the audience their primary goal.

The problem is that the earlier shocking moments made sense and were integral to the story.  Now they are there for shock value only.  The mess with Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger was the perfect example.

Jamie’s actions, for example, make zero sense if the leaks are correct. They have been building up his redemption and his relationship with Brienne for several seasons. He left Cersei because she broke her word.  Everything he has done in KL indicates that he has changed.  Now he is going back to her only after he hears reports of more atrocities?  It feels like his actions are designed simply to surprise the audience because they think he was headed in a different direction.

Perhaps these actions will be handled with more nuance than the leaks indicate.  For example it might make sense if he goes to KL to kill her, is mortally wounded, and then decides to die with her because he thinks he is “hateful” and deserves his fate.  Maybe they will present Tyrion’s betrayal in a way that makes sense.  But I’m not very optimistic.

I disagree, I think Jaime’s actions are the only ones in this crapfast that makes perfect sense. If he left Winterfell to be with her or to kill/take her down (my take on this), both make perfect sense. Jaime will always love Cersei, even if isn’t in love with her anymore. He didn’t left King’s Landing because Cersei broke his word, he left KL because he knew they had to fight the NK. It was not about her, it was about him and the war.

[stagmania]

[rmontro]

31 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

GRRM has gotten extremely passive aggressive on his blog: praising other stuff like the new Avengers movie and ignoring the GOT episodes. He'd better start working on a strategy soon, though, or else he's going to have to go into witness protection after the finale airs.

GRRM hasn't exactly been complimentary on the way D&D have been finishing Game of Thrones.  Passive aggressive is a good way to put it.  I don't hold him blameless by any means, because this "bittersweet" (read: disastrous, devastating, and depressing) ending is his idea.  However, I have no doubt that his writing of it would make more sense instead of making us feel like we've been punked.  But then again, maybe he should write the ending to his own book.

20 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

I planned to remain unspoiled. But I was so distressed with Ep. 4, I took a peek. Now I'm completely spoiled, both from here, and the huge Reddit thread.

I was exactly the same as you, I was going to remain unspoiled this season.  But I felt so upset after seeing episode four and where things were obviously going, I went ahead and read the spoilers.

I've actually been going through some of the stages of grief with this lol.  At first I was just depressed.  Then I was doing a form of bargaining:  "Well, maybe if they do it THIS way, or add that in, maybe it won't be quite so bad".  And now I'm just flat out angry.  I'm ready to burn King's Landing myself.  Let them all fry!

[Minneapple]

4 minutes ago, blixie said:

That is literally their job, it's why they are sent out to the press to sell the show to tell you it's good it's great you should watch. That many have been unable to mask their own disappointment/ambivalence is pretty telling (although like was mentioned it still could be an act in itself to lower expectations generally). Dinklage comments sound like a well practiced tornado of bullshit, a long winded complisult especially "a soft touch with some, a hard touch with others". Oh this thing they did wow it wasn't where  I thought it was going, which is all the show needed to do surprise everyone with bell induced insanity.  
 

I don't think they've been masking anything. They've just been saying a lot of words without trying to say anything, which is the argument we had before the season started. They're bound to say some stuff that sounds positive and some that sounds negative.

[GraceK]

1 minute ago, rmontro said:

GRRM hasn't exactly been complimentary on the way D&D have been finishing Game of Thrones.  Passive aggressive is a good way to put it.  I don't hold him blameless by any means, because this "bittersweet" (read: disastrous, devastating, and depressing) ending is his idea.  However, I have no doubt that his writing of it would make more sense instead of making us feel like we've been punked.  But then again, maybe he should write the ending to his own book.

I was exactly the same as you, I was going to remain unspoiled this season.  But I felt so upset after seeing episode four and where things were obviously going, I went ahead and read the spoilers.

I've actually been going through some of the stages of grief with this lol.  At first I was just depressed.  Then I was doing a form of bargaining:  "Well, maybe if they do it THIS way, or add that in, maybe it won't be quite so bad".  And now I'm just flat out angry.  I'm ready to burn King's Landing myself.  Let them all fry!

Me too basically. I’ve gone through so many emotions ,...that now my last is  I hope she takes out as many mofos as possible in a blaze of glory!

[Umbelina]

16 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

I planned to remain unspoiled. But I was so distressed with Ep. 4, I took a peek. Now I'm completely spoiled, both from here, and the huge Reddit thread.

What disturbs me the most are the ends for the characters. I've read all the books. Yes, it's a tough world; yes, bad things happen. But bad things happening to so many of the characters I love? It's worse than the worst. It's like the high, "Yeah!" moments are no longer part of the equation. For instance, the Red Wedding was shocking, but we got revenge with Arya. Same with the cavalry riding in to save the day in the Battle of the Bastards. And Dany using her dragon to free the Unsullied. And Tyrion killing his father. Those moments are important, too.

So, just because I'm frustrated and can't stop thinking about it, here are my feelings on where each of my faves appear to be headed:

Tyrion: I was so excited when he joined Dany's team. It felt destined. He was finally with someone who valued his input and saw how clever he was. Then his IQ took a huge nosedive, and he kept underestimating his sister, who wanted him dead, and steering Dany wrong. Now I'm to believe he goes out of his way to save the bitch? The one who despises him? He was ready and able to kill his own father — why does he care that much for his sister? It's so puzzling. I surprise myself, but I won't cry if he ends up dead.

Dany: OMG, this one is the worst. I see no signs of instability. Ruthlessness, yes, but no more than Robert, Stannis, even Jon, and dozens of others. Her actions for me have been a reflection of the world she lives in. She was alone, powerless, and she managed to tap into a deep well of power and (surprise!) magic to make something of herself and gather a devoted following. But none of that matters, apparently, because she was born nuts. So the message is you can't get away from your parentage. Or that women can't handle power. It's so disappointing because she got a hero's edit (that music, it stirs me every time). So I feel bait-and-switched, if that makes sense. As in, "Oh, you thought you were getting a genuine heroine who cared about the smallfolk, but instead she's a monster! hahahaha." I also don't see why nothing is explored about her ability to withstand fire, a trait which — along with her ability to birth dragons — has made her seem "destined" for something great. So much for that. 

Jamie: So he's just as stuck on Cersei as he's ever been. When he finally left her behind and went to Winterfell, I actually thought he'd grown. When he knighted Brienne, I thought it showed growth in his understanding of what makes people special (the sex less so.) I was thrilled that everyone accepted him into the fold, onto Team Dany. But he's the same guy he always was. He might as well have never met Brienne.

Jon: Why, exactly, was he brought back from the dead again? Why did Melissandre act like bringing fire and ice together was such a big deal? What was that all about anyway? He's so wooden — they're telling me he loves Dany, but I'm not really seeing it. I don't really know what he feels about anything. It's like he's just going through the motions. And why the big reveal about his sperm donor? Why does he think he's no longer a Stark, when his Aunt is one? Who cares who his father was if nothing comes of it/ What a giant MacGuffin.

Arya: Just leaves Winterfell, says she's not coming back. Why? No goodbyes? No emotion? WTF? What are her plans, what does she want for her life? Does anyone know? I love her, so please show, tell me what's going on with her.

The Hound: Headed for Clegane Bowl, where he dies. So he doesn't even have a moment to celebrate that he put down his evil brother.

Sansa: I thought she genuinely like Tyrion, but now she wants him dead. I'm just confused. I expected/hoped she'd learn from Littlefinger, but I didn't think she'd lose her soul and become Littlefinger.

Varys: I always admired and rooted for Varys. Where Littlefinger was so self-centered, Varys seemed to care for the unwashed masses. But his sudden, inexplicable turn against Dany has turned me against him. I won't cry when he fries.

Grayworm: Out of the blue, he turns into a monster. No nice beach for him. Well, that sucks. 

Davos: Seems he might escape unscathed. I adore Davos.

Bran: All I have to say about him and his journey is:

Tyrion:  I am not convinced he turns "team Cersei" trying to save her life, but if he does?  It's obviously for the baby.  I think he cared about her children more than she did, in the books anyway.

Dany:  I still don't know if they are substituting "furious and that brings out the scariest worst in her" for "goes crazy like 1/2 the Targs do."  I'm betting on the first, or hoping for it.  Either way, I never thought there would be an Iron Throne at the end, and Dany is too single minded to settle for less than that.  I really wish she'd grown enough to bag all this royalty crap, found an island with a pretty house with a red door, and been happy.

Jamie:  I still hope he goes to kill Cersei, but can't, perhaps because of the baby. 

Jon:  I think he's like Beric.  The dude is already dead, he must have one or a few last tasks to do for the Red God, but yeah, he's dead.  I think he was brought back to defeat the WW and their armies, and perhaps something else, that alone was plenty though.

Quote

Arya: Just leaves Winterfell, says she's not coming back. Why? No goodbyes? No emotion? WTF? What are her plans, what does she want for her life? Does anyone know? I love her, so please show, tell me what's going on with her.

Because she expects to die wiping that last name off her list, Cersei.  That doesn't mean she WILL die though, and I really think she does live.

Quote

The Hound: Headed for Clegane Bowl, where he dies. So he doesn't even have a moment to celebrate that he put down his evil brother.

I agree!  I'm super bummed about this one, and hope they got it wrong, it's an easy one to fake as a false scene, so maybe...

Quote

Sansa: I thought she genuinely like Tyrion, but now she wants him dead. I'm just confused. I expected/hoped she'd learn from Littlefinger, but I didn't think she'd lose her soul and become Littlefinger.

I haven't heard that Sansa wants Tyrion dead, why would she?

Varys:  I don't care if he dies, as long as he accomplishes his goal, a better world for the people who have never had a voice, let alone proper care or justice.  At least he will have died bringing about something he believed in.

Greyworm:  I can certainly believe he is furious after watching his love beheaded by that monster Cersei.  I haven't heard if he lives or dies though.

Davos being alive thrills me, him being on a small council thrills me too, he is more than qualified to know what it's like for the poor, and to be fair, along with wise.  Very happy about him.

Bran:  I just tell myself he will be useful, and that he can warg into others to have sex, ride horse, sword fight, hell, anything he wants.  Ha.

[Chiny11]

Leak that was posted and deleted from gottheories subReddit...

"Arya, the Hound, and Jaime Lannister all infiltrate King’s Landing through the sewers in Episode 5, and Jaime is imprisoned in the Red Keep.

At Dragonstone, Varys feeds into Daenerys’ paranoia, but she realizes his plans to betray her. She puts Varys and Tyrion on trial, leading to Varys being burned alive while Tyrion is spared. Dany also learns that it was Sansa who revealed Jon’s identity, setting up their conflict in Episode 6. 

During the Battle of King’s Landing, Yara Greyjoy’s fleet joins in the fight. Together with Dany riding Drogon, they’re able to surprise and kill Euron. As soon as Euron dies, the Golden Company breaks contract. (Historically, we’ve seen they always choose the winning sides because they’re good investments.)

At this, Cersei panics and frees Jaime, retreating into the queen’s chambers with him and the Mountain. As characters like Jon, Grey Worm, and Davos rush through King’s Landing to the castle, Qyburn tries using wildfire to “burn them all.” Jaime stabs Cersei in the stomach to kill her, echoing Talisa Stark’s murder at the Red Wedding, and he pulls off his face to reveal it was Arya. The Hound bursts in to fight the Mountain, thus fulfilling Cleganebowl.

Daenerys becomes a “Mad Queen” and burns down hundreds of civilians and soldiers, along with the Red Keep. The Hound overcomes his fear of fire to save a wounded Arya. Afterwards, everyone is then convinced Daenerys is unfit to rule.

All of this sets up the final episode, where Dany accuses Bran Stark, Samwell Tarly, and Sansa Stark of treason, forcing Jon Snow to reluctantly proclaim himself Aegon Targaryen and the real heir to the throne. He’d then have to kill Dany and Drogon himself before relinquishing the throne to characters like Sansa, Tyrion, Gendry, etc.

The final note of the series would be Jon reuniting with Ghost at the Wall while Bran uses magic to rebuild the hole in the Wall. Then, as Jon searches for Tormund even further north, he finds dismembered Wildling bodies arranged in the White Walker spiral."

Source: https://www.inverse.com/article/55648-game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-leaks-spoilers-ending-revealed-on-reddit

Edited May 10, 2019 by Chiny11

[anamika]

27 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

She was never paranoid about Tyrion, she was questioning his competence. 

Not at all. Twice she accuses Tyrion of doing it deliberately to protect his family. And we know this is true because Tyrion says as much to Cersei in their meeting last season - that she is only alive because of him. But Tyrion lies to Dany in episode two and tells her that he made all these mistakes because he was a fool. He says this in front of Jorah. Then Jorah tells Dany to keep Tyrion on because he's the smartest ever and Dany retains him as her adviser.

[Lemuria]

On 5/7/2019 at 6:48 PM, Colorful Mess said:

And Sansa is not about to kill thousands of people at this point in the story. 

But she was at tha BoTB, wasn’t she?  She held back that there was an army coming to help them. If Jon and Davis had known that, they would have tap danced the day away, waiting. 

I’ve seen comments to the effect that “Oh, but she didn’t really know if they were coming.”  Seriously? She rode out to meet them. That definitely sounds as if she knew they were coming. I suspect there was “some late visitor entreating entrance at [her] chamber door.”

[Umbelina]

@Chiny11

Wow, those actually sound better to me, not so much completely different than the other spoilers, as more fleshed out.

We will all know in about ten days, but those spoilers would not surprise me!

[stagmania]

11 minutes ago, rmontro said:

GRRM hasn't exactly been complimentary on the way D&D have been finishing Game of Thrones.  Passive aggressive is a good way to put it.  I don't hold him blameless by any means, because this "bittersweet" (read: disastrous, devastating, and depressing) ending is his idea.  However, I have no doubt that his writing of it would make more sense instead of making us feel like we've been punked.  But then again, maybe he should write the ending to his own book.

I think a key point we haven’t mentioned is that writers often change their stories in the course of writing them, because they realize something in their vision doesn’t work and make adjustments until it all comes together. We know that GRRM has changed his original outline more than once. If he has been struggling to get to his ending for this long, there’s a reason - probably because it’s not the right ending. And he seems to have given up on trying to write through it, so he’ll probably never figure it out.

I have no inclination to let D&D off the hook for tacking on his final imagined plot points if it doesn’t make sense or end the story satisfactorily. That’s not smart writing or smart adapting.

Edited May 10, 2019 by stagmania

[GraceK]

How is he gonna kill Drogon and Dany? He couldn’t even kill Viserion and he was injured and blind 😂😂 Is he gonna yell at Drogon too? 😆🤣

Edited May 10, 2019 by GraceK

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I think a key point we haven’t mentioned is that writers often change their stories in the course of writing them, because they realize something in their vision doesn’t work and make adjustments until it all comes together. We know that GRRM has changed his original outline more than once. If he has been struggling to get to his ending for this long, there’s a reason - probably because it’s not the right ending. And he seems to have given up on trying to write through it, so he’ll probably never figure it out.

I have no inclination to let D&D off the hook for tacking on his final imagined plot points if it doesn’t make sense or end the story satisfactorily. That’s not smart writing or smart adapting.

My biggest issue with them is that if this is the way it all plays out?  We should have seen more of the masses, and learned to care about them.  Not as an abstract, but as characters.  They did this a bit with Arya's early journey, and the Hound's, but lately?

[magdalene]

11 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

Leak that was posted and deleted from gottheories subReddit...

"Arya, the Hound, and Jaime Lannister all infiltrate King’s Landing through the sewers in Episode 5, and Jaime is imprisoned in the Red Keep.

At Dragonstone, Varys feeds into Daenerys’ paranoia, but she realizes his plans to betray her. She puts Varys and Tyrion on trial, leading to Varys being burned alive while Tyrion is spared. Dany also learns that it was Sansa who revealed Jon’s identity, setting up their conflict in Episode 6. 

During the Battle of King’s Landing, Yara Greyjoy’s fleet joins in the fight. Together with Dany riding Drogon, they’re able to surprise and kill Euron. As soon as Euron dies, the Golden Company breaks contract. (Historically, we’ve seen they always choose the winning sides because they’re good investments.)

At this, Cersei panics and frees Jaime, retreating into the queen’s chambers with him and the Mountain. As characters like Jon, Grey Worm, and Davos rush through King’s Landing to the castle, Qyburn tries using wildfire to “burn them all.” Jaime stabs Cersei in the stomach to kill her, echoing Talisa Stark’s murder at the Red Wedding, and he pulls off his face to reveal it was Arya. The Hound bursts in to fight the Mountain, thus fulfilling Cleganebowl.

Daenerys becomes a “Mad Queen” and burns down hundreds of civilians and soldiers, along with the Red Keep. The Hound overcomes his fear of fire to save a wounded Arya. Afterwards, everyone is then convinced Daenerys is unfit to rule.

All of this sets up the final episode, where Dany accuses Bran Stark, Samwell Tarly, and Sansa Stark of treason, forcing Jon Snow to reluctantly proclaim himself Aegon Targaryen and the real heir to the throne. He’d then have to kill Dany and Drogon himself before relinquishing the throne to characters like Sansa, Tyrion, Gendry, etc.

The final note of the series would be Jon reuniting with Ghost at the Wall while Bran uses magic to rebuild the hole in the Wall. Then, as Jon searches for Tormund even further north, he finds dismembered Wildling bodies arranged in the White Walker spiral."

Source: https://www.inverse.com/article/55648-game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-leaks-spoilers-ending-revealed-on-reddit

I think these are either some wild spec or foilers.

Would Arya really get all the big kills? That seems a bit overkill - ha, ha - to me.