Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[SimoneS]

Dany's emphasis on Jon being the last male Targaryen heir makes me think that she will end their relationship and give up her claim so their family line can continue. She will find out that she is pregnant and they will reunite. If this happens, I am the goddess of science fantasy because I predicted this two years ago. 

I am worried about who will die next week. It looks to be a bloodbath.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[Affogato]

On 4/15/2019 at 11:08 PM, Lemuria said:

I have no idea if this is mentioned in a book or in something Martin said, but I thought that there has only ever been the one.

I think in the show the actor that plays the NK played the human who was turned. 

The night king isn't in the books. 

I suspect they will have to sacrifice magic for survival and the night king visually is the opposite of dragons. Works visually in show. Ice/fire. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Affogato

[dirtypop90]

I think she emphasized that he's male more for the audience, to explain why he's a head of her in line for the throne.  She is the mad king's child; jon is his grandchild; but because Jon is male, he jumps over her in line.  Seems too late to introduce a pregnancy.

[bubble sparkly]

14 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Dany's emphasis on Jon being the last male Targaryen heir makes me think that she will end their relationship and give up her claim so their family line can continue

I think this is likely too.  It seems like it could happen in the Dragonstone scene from the promo, where Dany was in front of the fireplace and Jon was behind her.  I can see her "ordering" him to take the throne and find a girl to marry so their line can continue, then Jon angrily declaring back that the only girl he's marrying is her.  Then they have fiery Targ sex on the floor or whatever lol.

I think it's telling that so far no one has verbalised that Jon and Dany are aunt and nephew, and that Jon had no problem with Dany cuddling him in the crypt.  I think the show is going to sweep the incest stuff under the rug and their issue will be the throne / the Targ line continuing.

Also, I don't know what I think about the Tyrion stuff.  This ep we had Jorah going to bat for Tyrion and saying how smart he is.  Is this setting up for a Tyrion betrayal later or are Friki's leaks bogus?  I just don't know!!!

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Also, I don't know what I think about the Tyrion stuff.  This ep we had Jorah going to bat for Tyrion and saying how smart he is.  Is this setting up for a Tyrion betrayal later or are Friki's leaks bogus?  I just don't know!!!

Setting aside what seems to be Friki's own speculation about Tyrion being in league with Cersei, it seems like the betrayal somehow involves an action to defeat the White Walkers that is simultaneously also a betrayal.  I really don't know what to make of that, but he seems to view Tyrion's trial and execution as a verified spoiler, and given his record I have to give him some deference.  How this all fits together, though, no idea.

[SimoneS]

I rewatched the episode 3 preview. I think that the wights have already snuck into Winterfell, maybe through those infamous tunnels.

11 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Also, I don't know what I think about the Tyrion stuff.  This ep we had Jorah going to bat for Tyrion and saying how smart he is.  Is this setting up for a Tyrion betrayal later or are Friki's leaks bogus?  I just don't know!!!

I just don't see any evidence of Tyrion's betrayal based on what we have seen so far. It doesn't mean that he might not still though.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[Kate47]

This next episode is gonna be dark af, both emotionally and visually.

[Raachel2008]

41 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

In the preview, Dany says the dead are already here?  Is she talking about the crypts?!  Will all the women and children die down there?!!! I will not be able to handle it!

I don’t think so, because Jon looks clean and put together while there are other shots of him without his cape, hair a mess, etc. 

[SimoneS]

14 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

I think this is likely too.  It seems like it could happen in the Dragonstone scene from the promo, where Dany was in front of the fireplace and Jon was behind her.  I can see her "ordering" him to take the throne and find a girl to marry so their line can continue, then Jon angrily declaring back that the only girl he's marrying is her.  Then they have fiery Targ sex on the floor or whatever lol.

Yes, this is how I can see that scene playing out. As long as Dany believes that she can't have children, she will want Jon to take the Iron Throne and marry someone else.

14 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

I think it's telling that so far no one has verbalised that Jon and Dany are aunt and nephew, and that Jon had no problem with Dany cuddling him in the crypt.  I think the show is going to sweep the incest stuff under the rug and their issue will be the throne / the Targ line continuing.

I have never thought that the incest would be a problem for either Jon or Dany. 

[Raachel2008]

48 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Dany's emphasis on Jon being the last male Targaryen heir makes me think that she will end their relationship and give up her claim so their family line can continue. She will find out that she is pregnant and they will reunite. If this happens, I am the goddess of science fantasy because I predicted this two years ago. 

I am worried about who will die next week. It looks to be a bloodbath.

When Bran said “the things we do for love” during Jamie’s trial they cut right to Dany’s face.

[GraceK]

52 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Dany's emphasis on Jon being the last male Targaryen heir makes me think that she will end their relationship and give up her claim so their family line can continue.

I really don’t think so. I am a Daenerys supporter 10000000000 percent. I will her STAN her forever even if she does go Mad queen.  Lol. But even I have to admit that I do not see her submitting to the idea that just because she cannot have children, and Jon is a penis holding Targaryen, she will give up her crown. She fought long and hard for her right to the throne. She birthed Dragons, liberated slaves, lost her baby, lived in exile her whole life, was whipped, chained and battered and raised armies for her birthright. She lost a dragon trying to rescue Jon, she came north and put her ambition on hold. And now what? She’s supposed to submit and kiss Jon’s feet and say “ No my love, my only worth is to have babies to carry on the name, and since I can’t, YOU, the the male heir and special unicorn, deserve to be king!!! You must marry a fertile woman, and make more Targaryens!!!” How utterly insulting would that be. 

She already thinks she can’t have children and that hasn’t stopped her. She’s not just trying to claim her birthright because of her name anymore but because she feels she can make the world a better place. I feel if she just hands it over to Jon purely because she’s barren, or does her a disservice.

I’d rather see her be shocked, angry and then absorb the news. Then be happy that the man she loves is actually not just her equal like she already knew, but also her mate and family and  perfect co ruler.

Edited April 22, 2019 by GraceK

[SimoneS]

Just now, GraceK said:

I really don’t think so. I am a Daenerys supporter 10000000000 percent. I will her STAN her forever even if she does go Mad queen.  Lol. But even I have to admit that I do not see her submitting to the idea that just because she cannot have children, and Jon is a penis holding Targaryen, she will give up her crown. She fought long and hard for her right to the throne. She birthed Dragons, liberated slaves, lost her baby, lived in exile her whole life, was whipped, chaired and battered and raised armies for her birthright. She lost a dragon trying to rescue Jon, she came north and put her ambition on hold. And now what? She’s supposed to submit and kiss Jon’s feet and say “ No my love, my only worth is to have babies to carry on the name, and since I can’t, YOU, the the male heir and special unicorn, deserve to be king!!! You must marry a fertile woman, and make more Targaryens!!!” How utterly insulting would that be. 

She already thinks she can’t have children and that hasn’t stopped her. She’s not just trying to claim her birthright because of her name anymore but because she feels she can make the world a better place. I feel if she just hands it over to Jon purely because she’s barren, or does her a disservice.

It is insulting, but that is how it seems like Martin and D&D are having the story unfold.

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It is insulting, but that is how it seems like Martin and D&D are having the story unfold.

I’ll be pissed . Lol 🤷🏻‍♀️

[bubble sparkly]

I think they laid it on very thick with Sam's comments last week during the parentage reveal with the "you gave up your throne to save your people, would Dany do the same" stuff.  So, I feel like D&D are going to have Dany prove she's "worthy" by giving up her claim in favour of Jon because she loves him and thinks he will be a good king, and because she thinks it's important for the Targ line to continue.  Now, presumably Jon will fight her on it since he doesn't want the throne, and then this will perhaps lead into the Boatbaby reveal and/or we will get a continuation of Davos' "they should get married and rule together" idea.

[Happy Harpy]

When I heard that Theon would protect Bran in the Goodswood, I began mourning for Theon re: Stannis takes him to one goodswood to execute him. Same place to die, different way to get there?

During the song, they showed Sam and family, Arya and Gendry, Sansa and Theon, Grey Worm and Missandei. It looks ominously like each former is going to lose each latter. (Again I hate, hate, hate, being unspoiled.)

Varys was seen in the crypts, and Conleth Hill didn't film much. Not boding well either for the people there. Weirdly, I feel less worried about Jorah because he just got Heartsbane. Would he die after barely using it? Unless Heartsbane also goes bye-bye in a kind of Worf effect. There were persisting rumors about some Valyrian sword (usually Longclaw) getting broken.

I saw a speculation on FF,  wondering whether the scarred little girl was Melisandre. I found the idea pretty cool.

No sign of her Volantis Escadron or anything hinting that Cersei has/will send forces. Hmm.

[tangerine95]

I'm not sure Dany would give up her crown,tho I wouldn't be shocked if she did.They seem to be heading towards some idea of how giving up the crown makes her worthy of it 🙄

She could also want to make Jon her heir and his kids to inherit the throne.I do think the angst could be about that,the fact that she can't have kids and if they're together then their house dies out.She could want him to marry someone else and push him away.

[SimoneS]

In the preview, Arya is running through the crypts or a dark corridor and the Hound and Beric are carefully moving down a hallway. This is why I think that the wights are already in Winterfell. I think that the people in the crypts are likely doomed as the wights will get them. The wights probably entered through the tunnels. If the NK really is a Stark, he would know about the tunnels.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

If the NK really is a Stark, he would know about the tunnels.

The show Night King is the original White Walker and predates the building of Winterfell.

[bubble sparkly]

Two other random points that may or may not mean anything.  When Emilia said she was emotional filming her last scene and everyone was telling her to chill out because it was a shot of her hand, was that the scene with Sansa that ends with Dany pulling her hand away?

Also, on the Inside the Episode D&D talked about Sansa not trusting Dany yet after being let down by monarchs in the past etc.  The way they were phrasing it seemed to imply that Sansa is only insisting on Northern independence because she isn't ready to accept Dany as her monarch due to this lack of trust.  Does this mean that once Sansa presumably does decide Dany can be trusted, that the North will happily agree to be part of the 7K?

Edited April 22, 2019 by bubble sparkly

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

The show Night King is the original White Walker and predates the building of Winterfell.

Okay, then I have no clue how he would know about the tunnels.

[LadyChaos]

If Tyrion betrays Dany.......at this point, I think it will be to save his own neck.

[GraceK]

I think Jorah is a goner. These scenes with Dany, Lyanna and Sam make me think he’s gonna die. And I’m gonna cry buckets . 

[SimoneS]

43 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I think Jorah is a goner. These scenes with Dany, Lyanna and Sam make me think he’s gonna die. And I’m gonna cry buckets . 

But he just got Heartsbane! It seems all sorts of wrong. 

[glowbug]

We know we can’t trust Maisie Williams. She said that Arya is asexual. Clearly not. 

[spaceghostess]

3 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

I'm not sure Dany would give up her crown,tho I wouldn't be shocked if she did.They seem to be heading towards some idea of how giving up the crown makes her worthy of it 🙄

She could also want to make Jon her heir and his kids to inherit the throne.I do think the angst could be about that,the fact that she can't have kids and if they're together then their house dies out.She could want him to marry someone else and push him away.

I could see Dany giving up her crown to Jon (after he resists the notion a bunch) and Jon then dying, so it bounces back to her. Basically, all my spec leads to Jon's death, one way or another. 😞

[Friendly kitty]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I am worried about who will die next week. It looks to be a bloodbath.

I'm afraid of that too! It seems to me that in the next episode half the heroes of those shown in 8.02 will be killed. It's scary to think about it ... but we are led to this.

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I rewatched the episode 3 preview. I think that the wights have already snuck into Winterfell, maybe through those infamous tunnels.

And I'm afraid the first victims will be children who are hidden in a septum.

[anamika]

3 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Also, on the Inside the Episode D&D talked about Sansa not trusting Dany yet after being let down by monarchs in the past etc.  Does this mean that once Sansa presumably does decide Dany can be trusted, that the North will happily agree to be part of the 7K?

So Sansa now trusts Jaime because Brienne said so but still does not trust Dany despite Jon asking her to? Because I guess as per the show, men become stupid once they fall in love but women still make the right decisions when they love someone.

It's funny how Arya and Tyrion were standing in the same room and there was absolutely no acknowledgement between these characters. Hello, I am Arya. Hello, I am Tyrion. Nothing. Considering GRRM's original outline and the connection between these characters and considering Arya's first line of dialogue on the show was - 'Where's the imp' - nothing at all there.  I wonder if these two will ever interact at all.

Same with Arya and Dany. Is Arya not at all interested in Jon's dragon queen?

Arya has also run into Jaime with the Freys in Riverrun. But no interaction with him either.

With the way, the show is writing Arya at this point, I think I have to give up and accept that she's going to be just doing a lot of fighting and at the end either sail off with Gendry or play bodyguard/second fiddle to her sister in WF. Two episodes in, they are giving her nothing to do other than flirt with Gendry. With no build up, I can't see her ending up in charge of anything at this point.

[Friendly kitty]

11 minutes ago, anamika said:

Same with Arya and Dany. Is Arya not at all interested in Jon's dragon queen?

And why does she need her? Arya solves problems as they come. Now the most important thing is to defeat the army of the dead. And then it will be necessary to find out who will be the king of the north, who will rule 7 kingdoms ...

So Arya is not interested in Deineris. The main thing is that she is in Winterfel and is ready to serve the north by giving them a dragon. Diplomacy she imposes on Sansu. Arya herself is just a warrior, so she communicates with the same warriors.

[Happy Harpy]

15 minutes ago, anamika said:

 Same with Arya and Dany. Is Arya not at all interested in Jon's dragon queen?

Arya has also run into Jaime with the Freys in Riverrun. But no interaction with him either.

With the way, the show is writing Arya at this point, I think I have to give up and accept that she's going to be just doing a lot of fighting and at the end either sail off with Gendry or play bodyguard/second fiddle to her sister in WF. Two episodes in, they are giving her nothing to do other than flirt with Gendry. With no build up, I can't see her ending up in charge of anything at this point.

Well, at least she wasn't a beyotch to Daenerys.

Imo, Arya will interact more with the "fighters" on the battlefield, and if there's an exodus after the battle of WF, some leaders can still emerge.

I'm less optimistic about Gendry, in spite of Joe's long filming and wrapping in Seville, because I feel that his kinda plot armor might have been destroyed in 8x02 -I wouldn't have worried if Gendry and Arya didn't sleep together before 8x03. If Arya is pregnant with him, it isn't impossible that she gets the Stormlands for her future child. The costume Maisie was wearing in Seville could have been indeed Baratheon colors, and that's why it was hidden.

[WindyNights]

46 minutes ago, anamika said:

So Sansa now trusts Jaime because Brienne said so but still does not trust Dany despite Jon asking her to? Because I guess as per the show, men become stupid once they fall in love but women still make the right decisions when they love someone.

It's funny how Arya and Tyrion were standing in the same room and there was absolutely no acknowledgement between these characters. Hello, I am Arya. Hello, I am Tyrion. Nothing. Considering GRRM's original outline and the connection between these characters and considering Arya's first line of dialogue on the show was - 'Where's the imp' - nothing at all there.  I wonder if these two will ever interact at all.

Same with Arya and Dany. Is Arya not at all interested in Jon's dragon queen?

Arya has also run into Jaime with the Freys in Riverrun. But no interaction with him either.

With the way, the show is writing Arya at this point, I think I have to give up and accept that she's going to be just doing a lot of fighting and at the end either sail off with Gendry or play bodyguard/second fiddle to her sister in WF. Two episodes in, they are giving her nothing to do other than flirt with Gendry. With no build up, I can't see her ending up in charge of anything at this point.

King Gendry and Queen Arya has a low possibility still. 

Or Arya continuing the Stark line with Gendry.

[Nightingale]

Weeks ago Sophie and Maisie revealed in an interview that after reading the scripts, they texted each other about a scene that was not from episode 6. This is confirmed to be the Gendry and Arya sex scene.

Bryan Cogman, who wrote episode 2, talks about some of the biggest moments.

Quote

Jon tells Dany about his parentage. “Jon is avoiding Dany the whole episode because this bombshell has been dropped on him and he can’t even process how to be in the same room with her. She senses a strange tension and can’t understand why. What really upsets Jon is that he’s a blood relative to the woman he’s in love with. In the crypt, Jon is taken aback when essentially the first thing she says is acknowledging that he has a claim to the Iron Throne. And Jon’s immediate concern is the fact that that’s her immediate concern.

I stand by my predictions from yesterday, especially after this interview and episode 2 where Dany was the only character who didn't get cute group bonding moments:

Everyone will realize how evil Daenerys is because she cares about the throne. She'll be angry all the time (have you seen the episode 3 promo?). Jon will fall out of love with her because evil. Every remaining character will go behind her back and root for Jon to take her place. Someone will kill her in episode 5. Probably Jon himself. He'll use her armies and remaining dragons to quickly defeat Cersei. And then we have our bittersweet ending with a sad, lonely leader on the throne. 

Throw in the Tyrion betrayal in there somewhere because Frikidoctor is still alluding to it and by now he probably has info on all the episodes. Speaking of which, his original leak said that Tyrion betrays "the Starks", not "the Starks and Dany", so that goes with my point above.

And by now I'm pretty sure there is no baby. The writing's on the wall for us, Dany fans.

[SimoneS]

5 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

I'm less optimistic about Gendry, in spite of Joe's long filming and wrapping in Seville, because I feel that his kinda plot armor might have been destroyed in 8x02 -I wouldn't have worried if Gendry and Arya didn't sleep together before 8x03. If Arya is pregnant with him, it isn't impossible that she gets the Stormlands for her future child. The costume Maisie was wearing in Seville could have been indeed Baratheon colors, and that's why it was hidden.

Morning after, I am back to feeling positive about Gendry's survival as I focus on the bigger story. Gendry is a minor character in the books and the show, but as we all know he is a Baratheon and Targaryen and now Arya knows. When Gendry returned after two years, some people assumed it was fan service, but I think that it is more likely that Martin has plans for Gendry that tie into a main character's ending.  

It has always been significant to me that the stag, the Baratheon sigil has never been removed from show's opening and is shown next to Gentry's name. I have always thought this meant that the House of Baratheon would be restored and since Gendry is the only Baratheon in the show, he is the likely candidate. All this to say, I am optimistic that Gendry lives to serve the overarching story. Now, I say to myself, please don't be wrong because I would be crushed if he dies.

4 hours ago, Nightingale said:

I stand by my predictions from yesterday, especially after this interview and episode 2 where Dany was the only character who didn't get cute group bonding moments:

Everyone will realize how evil Daenerys is because she cares about the throne. She'll be angry all the time (have you seen the episode 3 promo?). Jon will fall out of love with her because evil. Every remaining character will go behind her back and root for Jon to take her place. Someone will kill her in episode 5. Probably Jon himself. He'll use her armies and remaining dragons to quickly defeat Cersei. And then we have our bittersweet ending with a sad, lonely leader on the throne. 

Throw in the Tyrion betrayal in there somewhere because Frikidoctor is still alluding to it and by now he probably has info on all the episodes. Speaking of which, his original leak said that Tyrion betrays "the Starks", not "the Starks and Dany", so that goes with my point above.

And by now I'm pretty sure there is no baby. The writing's on the wall for us, Dany fans.

Nah, the story doesn't seem to be unfolding in that direction at all and what you are proposing makes no sense. If Jon or someone kills Dany, her dragons and armies will kill them, not fight for them. You should take Cogman's and all the GoT people's interviews with a huge heap of salt. They really do occasionally lie to push the show's agenda.

Besides Jon didn't pull away when Dany leaned on him and took his arm and when he was up in her personal space in the crypts so he isn't that concerned that she is related to him. Wait for episode four when we actually get Dany's reaction and thoughts about learning that Jon has a claim to the Iron Throne. People have been predicting the worse of Dany since episode one and none of if has ever happened. They are bound to be disappointed yet again.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[YaddaYadda]

Quote

If the NK really is a Stark, he would know about the tunnels.

He wouldn't. But since I'm keeping track of who the NK is. Last week after the episode, he was Aerys Targaryen. This week, he is Rhaegar. But I don't know that they'll be able to kill him with dragonglass seeing as that's the thing that turned him into what he is in the first place. Anyone with a non-Valyrian steel should probably stay clear.

Gendry can go and die.

Edited April 22, 2019 by YaddaYadda

[Frankenstein123]

Much has been discussed about the whole "Tyrion is a traitor and will be put on trial" leak, but I haven't really been keeping up with all of it. Assuming the leak came from someone with access to the script (they could very likely be part of a foreign translation team), I wonder if it is outside the realm of possibility that the trial does happen exactly as described, but with a different character entirely? Tyrion's name could have been added in to deliberately mislead and confuse anyone who could possibly leak the ending. The obvious one on trial would be Cersei but there are other options...

[BadAssRobinArryn]

I don't think that everybody in the crypts will die, because according to the trailer Varys is in there. And I don't think he'll die just yet. He didn't even get a "farewell Scene" like most other characters did this week,

[Happy Harpy]

44 minutes ago, Frankenstein123 said:

Much has been discussed about the whole "Tyrion is a traitor and will be put on trial" leak, but I haven't really been keeping up with all of it. Assuming the leak came from someone with access to the script (they could very likely be part of a foreign translation team), I wonder if it is outside the realm of possibility that the trial does happen exactly as described, but with a different character entirely? Tyrion's name could have been added in to deliberately mislead and confuse anyone who could possibly leak the ending. The obvious one on trial would be Cersei but there are other options...

The leaker is legit (this season, he spoiled 8x01 almost entirely). However his source for the trial isn't his usual one. It was speculated that he mostly saw pictures taken on set, during the filming in Seville.

I've always been 50/50 about this possibility. but if it's true & providing it makes sense in the end, D&D did a superior work at blindsiding the audience. Tyrion has become a background character, and for all that talk about his great mind he's been pretty inept so far but also pretty innocuous. Imo, Tyrion betraying Daenerys is extremely unlikely: Her anger at him didn't last, he admitted he screwed up so he knows it was deserved, and she reaffirmed him publicly as her Hand while complimenting him and showing she valued him and his life afterwards.

Nevertheless, if he betrays "The Starks", it could be a consequence of the Aegon/Jon reveal. Many things can change with the battle to come, too.

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Morning after, I am back to feeling positive about Gendry's survival as I focus on the bigger story. Gendry is a minor character in the books and the show, but as we all know he is a Baratheon and Targaryen and now Arya knows. When Gendry returned after two years, some people assumed it was fan service, but I think that it is more likely that Martin has plans for Gendry that tie into a main character's ending.  

It has always been significant to me is the stag, the Baratheon sigil has never been removed from show's opening and is shown next to Gentry's name. I have always thought this meant that the House of Baratheon would be restored and since Gendry is the only Baratheon in the show, he is the likely candidate. All this to say, I am optimistic that Gendry lives to serve the overarching story. Now, I say to myself, please don't be wrong because I would be crushed if he dies.

I hope so, too. But if he and Arya have a child, the Baratheon line won't be lost and that's what worries me.  We might get an indication soon, re: new costume. If it's on the stills for 8x03, not a good sign.

8x03 is going to be a gazillion more brutal than the Red Wedding. I wasn't half invested in the characters who died there, unlike the potential victims this time around. 8x02 was like a rollercoaster slowly climbing and stopping at the tipping point, just before the free fall.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[bubble sparkly]

Now I am imaging Dany and Arya running around in 8x06 with huge pregnant bellies, still riding dragons and sword fighting in the battles lol.

[SimoneS]

8 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

I hope so, too. But if he and Arya have a child, the Baratheon line won't be lost and that's what worries me.  We might get an indication soon, re: new costume. If it's on the stills for 8x03, not a good sign.

Joe filmed in Seville which tells me that Gendry makes it to the fifth or sixth episode at minimum so I am not worried that he will die in the battle for Winterfell.  I know that Friki says he didn't, but I think that he is wrong and didn't he say that Gendry does not die in episode three. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[Minneapple]

On 4/17/2019 at 6:31 PM, LadyChaos said:

Do you guys think that real final battle won't be about Cersei, but Jon vs Dany?

I'm coming around on this after Dany's reaction to Jon's Targaryen news. Not "you're my nephew and oh my god are we in love," etc., etc., but "You're the last male Targaryen heir. You have a claim to the throne," like she was threatened by him. It would definitely have more of an impact emotionally than battling Cersei's paid troops or the Night King.

[ElizaD]

I would laugh if the spoilery costume that was covered by a sack in the behind the scenes interview was Arya maternity wear, after all the speculation about when Dany will start showing.

Reading other forums, I'm surprised by what a total bloodbath people are expecting halfway through the season, predicting deaths for Jaime, Brienne, Sansa or Arya and so on. I hope it won't be a disappointment if Theon and Jorah are the biggest casualties in 8x03.

[SimoneS]

After last night, I just don't see a way for Tyrion to betray the Starks that is plausible. What Friki's source got it wrong and it is Cersei who captures Tyrion and puts him on trial? Even as I type it, I don't buy it.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

If it weren't for the knowledge that Jacob Anderson filmed 8x05 scenes with Kit on the KL set, I would swear that Grey Worm was a goner. Making plans for afterwards and talking about finding a quiet beach somewhere after the big battle? Death flag. (And also Grey Worm seems to think that he can just take Dany's army and split after the war's won, which...well, I'd be surprised, put it that way.) Maybe it's a fakeout and Missandei is the one who dies.

We got a few characters confidently asserting that the crypts are safe. I'm guessing that belief will be tested in 8x03. (As others have pointed out, it seems stupid to hide out in a room full of dead bodies when you're battling an adversary with the power to raise the dead, but I don't know if this is going to come up.)

From 8x03, the crypts roster looks like it should include Varys, Missandei, Gilly, Little Sam, Sam, Sansa and Tyrion. However, we know Sam ends up fighting at some point, since James Hibberd saw him fighting on the 8x03 set during his visit, and Tyrion seems to end up on the battlements with Brienne judging from that brief glimpse in the trailer, so I don't know if they actually end up there (or if they show up and then leave to go fight). Tyrion was ordered by Dany to stay in the crypts, so it will be interesting if she changes those orders, or if he ends up defying them.

[anamika]

Did anyone notice this line of dialogue from Tyrion?

- " So. We are going to die at WF. Not the death I would have chosen. I always pictured myself dying in my own bed. At the age of 80.  With a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my cock"

Many have speculated that this is possibly the line from the first book that GRRM has said is important for the series ending or even predicting Tyrion's ending.

[SimoneS]

11 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

If it weren't for the knowledge that Jacob Anderson filmed 8x05 scenes with Kit on the KL set, I would swear that Grey Worm was a goner. Making plans for afterwards and talking about finding a quiet beach somewhere after the big battle? Death flag. (And also Grey Worm seems to think that he can just take Dany's army and split after the war's won, which...well, I'd be surprised, put it that way.) Maybe it's a fakeout and Missandei is the one who dies.

If they ask, Dany would release the Unsullied from their oaths and let them leave once she has taken Westeros. I don't think she would ask the Unsullied or the Dothraki to spend the rest of their lives in a foreign land where they are treated with such disdain.

I don't think that Missandei will die (or maybe I just don't want her to), but it is possible that she is with Dany at Dragonstone, maybe she stays there for the KL battle and sails away with the Grey Worm and the Unsullied from there which is why Nathalie didn't film in Seville.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[Jextella]

I feel as if we are going to see some key phrases bear fruit -

e.g. 

• Aemon Targaryen saying the Starks are always right in the end
• Catelyn saying there must always be a Stark at Winterfell
• Yara reminding Theon that what's dead can never die
• Lord Varys saying about Jon and Dany that they don't understand things never stay the same
• Jaimie saying you don't choose who you love

There are probably more but I've been rewatching earlier episodes and these pop up every now and again.

Also, it seems like the entire series is culminating into a Baratheon vs. Targaryan showdown with the ultimate question being what determines "rightful heir/holder" to/of the throne.  Is it a Targaryan via lineage or a Baratheon via force.

Bran and Sam are working on the idea that a Targaryan is the rightful holder to the throne - not a Baratheon - even though Ed Stark helped take down the Targaryans and put Robert Baratheon on the throne.

Ed Stark (and the Lannisters) are working on the idea that Robert Baratheon is the rightful heir to the throne.  ed Stark modifies Robert Baratheon's final words in his Robert's will.  Robert makes Ed Stark Lord of the 7 kingdoms until Joffrey comes of age.  Ed had recently learned that Cersei's blond children are bastards - and not Robert's at all.  He changes the line to read "rightful heir" rather than Joffrey.

This would mean Gendry - or some other bastard still living despite Cersei and Joffrey's attempt at killing all Baratheon bastards.  Ed Stark is also very impressed with Gendry when he first meets him and says if Gendry ever decides to become a soldier, to send him to him.

Perhaps Gendry impregnates Arya making Arya's child the rightful heir after Gendry (assuming Gendry dies given spoilers).

With Snow as a Targaryan and Ary's child a Baratheon, maybe the two take the Iron Throne together somehow with Sansa being the Winterfell Stark.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Jextella

[Eyes High]

21 minutes ago, anamika said:

Did anyone notice this line of dialogue from Tyrion?

- " So. We are going to die at WF. Not the death I would have chosen. I always pictured myself dying in my own bed. At the age of 80.  With a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my cock"

Many have speculated that this is possibly the line from the first book that GRRM has said is important for the series ending or even predicting Tyrion's ending.

Not the ending, as I recall, but “the last scene” of the books. Tyrion getting blown as he dies is not what I would have imagined for the last scene of the books, but Tyrion is GRRM’s avatar, and GRRM has said he wants to die this way as well, so who knows?

The show has made a little mystery out of Tyrion losing his appetite for prostitutes. He couldn’t go through with it at the brothel in S5, and now he comments in 8x02 that whoremongering is no longer an option for him without elaborating. We’re left to imagine what it means. If it’s just about Shae, then why not say so? Even in S5, Tyrion couldn’t explain why he couldn’t go through with it. I wonder where they’re going with it, or if we’re just left to assume it’s about Shae. Usually the writers just spell out such things. They’re not exactly subtle.

It’s already been discussed whether or not Gendry is doomed, but Arya/Gendry struck me as very unromantic and unemotional. Arya’s dead-eyed postcoital stare didn’t help. Maybe if Gendry survives 8x03 they can develop a closer relationship.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Eyes High

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

It’s already been discussed whether or not Gendry is doomed, but Arya/Gendry struck me as very unromantic and unemotional. Arya’s dead-eyed postcoital stare didn’t help. Maybe if Gendry survives 8x03 they can develop a closer relationship.

Pretty sure that was sex for the sake of sex. 

[KungFuBunny]

Are all of the Children of the Forest dead?

The Craster babies that were left out in the cold - NK touches them and their eyes turn blue. Do these babies "grow" into adulthood? This is a different kind of power as the NK usually brings back a dead person and changes them into zombies. The usual zombies - are moving dead decaying bodies.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It’s already been discussed whether or not Gendry is doomed, but Arya/Gendry struck me as very unromantic and unemotional. Arya’s dead-eyed postcoital stare didn’t help. Maybe if Gendry survives 8x03 they can develop a closer relationship.

I think that Arya and Gendry do have feelings for each other. The upcoming battle caused Arya to initiate sex without any romance. None of this means that they are going to marry one day. They might have separate futures with Gendry at the Stormlands and Arya at Winterfell.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[Hana Chan]

12 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

I think she emphasized that he's male more for the audience, to explain why he's a head of her in line for the throne.  She is the mad king's child; jon is his grandchild; but because Jon is male, he jumps over her in line.  Seems too late to introduce a pregnancy.

But this is incorrect. Jon's claim doesn't supersede hers because he's male. It's because he's the last surviving child of the crown prince. If Jon was a woman and Dany a man, Jon still would have a greater claim based on the hierarchy of succession. Dany was only the primary heir when it seemed that all of Rheagar's children were dead. 

Dany is Prince Harry here. Harry may be Will's brother, but Will and all of Will's children are ahead of Harry in the line of succession. Gender has nothing to do with Dany's situation now.