S10.E07: The Pyramid At The End Of The World

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

An 'ancient' pyramid appears overnight. Every clock in the world begins counting down to the Earth's destruction. Three opposing armies lie ready to annihilate each other. An alien race stands ready to offerhumanity a deal that could save them, but also enslave them. It's a terrifying race against time to save the world. Will the Doctor be forced to accept their help?

[Avon.Blakes7]

6 hours ago, Tara Ariano said:

Quote

An 'ancient' pyramid appears overnight. Every clock in the world begins counting down to the Earth's destruction. Three opposing armies lie ready to annihilate each other. An alien race stands ready to offerhumanity a deal that could save them, but also enslave them. It's a terrifying race against time to save the world. Will the Doctor be forced to accept their help?

Hmmm, not a prequel to "The Silence" when they were locked up? Well they were thought to be before "breaking out" in the Pyramids in that "alternate" timeline!

[Ms Lark]

Since this is specific to this week's episode:  Doctor Who episode edited for Saturday airing following Manchester bombing. "The BBC sci-fi series is removing dialogue from a scene out of respect for victims of the terrorist attack." (Article contains minor spoilage.)

[ApathyMonger]

The "every clock counts down" thing was a bit too silly, and the depiction of world leaders was too broad (as usual), but I enjoyed that.

[John Potts]

OK - this was awful. It combined people acting wildly out of character, militaries assuming that just because somebody shows you a picture of the world destroyed that it will be and (the cherry on the Shit Sundae) we have to have the Companion declaring their love for the Doctor. I could also complain about the science, but quite frankly I'd rather just forget this episode ever existed.

(Guess I shouldn't be surprised it was written by Steven Moffat)

[Beatriceblake]

1 hour ago, John Potts said:

It combined people acting wildly out of character, militaries assuming that just because somebody shows you a picture of the world destroyed that it will be and (the cherry on the Shit Sundae) we have to have the Companion declaring their love for the Doctor. I could also complain about the science, but quite frankly I'd rather just forget this episode ever existed.

(Guess I shouldn't be surprised it was written by Steven Moffat)

In fairness Bill had just found out the Doctor gave his sight up to save her life. I would have a big time problem with it if it was meant to be romantic love but I don't think it was.

I quite liked it because we got to see a sympathetic companion outright defying the Doctor over a major decision. This isn't something the show has done a lot so it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Weirdly it comes off as more of an act of faith/desperation than something arrogant or hubristic.

[Lantern7]

I like the idea . . . the (meddlesome) Monks aren't attacking the planet, they just want people to beg for their help in exchange for complete control. And the trigger event is just a series of events that have no real malice towards them. I'm a little miffed that a whole episode was basically prologue for this story. How long ago was "Mission Into The Unknown"?

I can understand the disappointment for this episode, but the trailer for next week looks nuts. In a good way.

ETA: I appreciate Erica being a little person, that not playing a part in what happened at the lab, and it is not presented as a big honking deal.

ETA2: "He's . . . orange!" I laughed.

[Avon.Blakes7]

4 hours ago, Beatriceblake said:

In fairness Bill had just found out the Doctor gave his sight up to save her life. I would have a big time problem with it if it was meant to be romantic love but I don't think it was.

I quite liked it because we got to see a sympathetic companion outright defying the Doctor over a major decision. This isn't something the show has done a lot so it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Weirdly it comes off as more of an act of faith/desperation than something arrogant or hubristic.

Happens all the time! If she wanted to sacrifice herself fine; she's giving up the fate of the planet on her whim to give the Doctor back his sight! I hate that! ...

[Starchild]

I haven't found Bill to be an amazing companion. But she wasn't Clara so that made her awesome by comparison.

But there was an immediate chemistry between Erica and the Doctor, and I found myself hoping Bill would disintegrate when the Monk touched her, so Erica could join the Doctor as a new companion (though not with a crush on him).

[FiveByFive]

7 hours ago, John Potts said:

OK - this was awful. It combined people acting wildly out of character, militaries assuming that just because somebody shows you a picture of the world destroyed that it will be and (the cherry on the Shit Sundae) we have to have the Companion declaring their love for the Doctor. I could also complain about the science, but quite frankly I'd rather just forget this episode ever existed.

(Guess I shouldn't be surprised it was written by Steven Moffat)

Moffat nonsense strikes again! I'll be happy to see him go.

You nailed everything that bothered me about this episode.

1.  The Doctor didn't tell Bill that he was blind from jump which was incredibly stupid. I can see him not telling the "World Leaders" but that's about it. 

2.  Bill acting incredibly selfishly.  We'll get back to this one.

3.  The Doctor never explaining to Bill that if he dies he should "regenerate" into a new version of himself.

2. (Continued) You know I get that maybe she thought the Doctor could fix everything if she simply consented so that he could escape the lab. I get that once before he has pointed out to her and he has made a point of noting this season that he's just the guy that helps out humanity and doesn't consider himself part of it or able to make decisions on behalf of it. However, Bill was the last person I'd think would say, "Okay well I want you alive so everyone else can totally possibly die because you MIGHT be able to fix things later!" That is some kind of Clara Oswald type thinking which ended up getting her "killed" in the end. "Oh yes, Doctor! I'm sure you can fix this incredibly brave thing I did which wasn't as much brave as it was me being cocky! Oh wait, you can't? Forget about me I'm going to fly around space now trapped in the moment before my death!"

So what if Bill let him die? He, more than likely, would have just come back anyway! However, she didn't know that since he never explained regeneration to her at any point. It's just an incredible loop of stupidity but that's what I expect from Moffat.

One thing I did like ....

I liked the fact that, Erica, the woman that helped him blow up the bacteria was a little person and that they didn't make point of it. She just was capable and smart. 

[QuantumMechanic]

I got taken out of the story by all the safety (or rather lack thereof) stupidity in the lab.

First and worst was the Doctor and Nardole walking out, unprotected, into a lab they knew was likely contaminated. And then the Doctor wanders around still unprotected with the bacterial-laden mist all around him.

And the idiocy of how both Erica and Mr. Hungover acted (at least he had somewhat of an excuse).

And the idea that a place that's doing research like that having an un-overrideable vent to the open atmosphere?

Etc.

[call me ishmael]

Sigh.  Well this one was really silly.  So the Silence, oops i mean the Monks, have been around since the beginning of time so that the Silence, oops i mean the Monks have been secretly comtrolling things to this point so that now we can ask the Silence, oops i mean the Monks, to safe us and take over the world.  But they can only do it if the person has power and does it with Love, and the Doctor is the President of the World which means that he is the one with Power but he says no, so the Secretary General of the UN who doesn't have power tries, and then 3 generals who don't even represent their governments are supposed to give consent (with what authority?) and then the person who hangs out with the Doctor (who TOLD THEM NO) is given the right to give them the whole planet.  But she does it out of love for the Doctor even though they had said "we" need to be loved.  

And then the Silence, oops i mean the Monks, didn't actually save the planet.  That would have happened even if the Doctor had died.  So how could Bill's consent to get them to save the Doctor implicate the whole planet.

i'm surprised they didn't call it the Papal Mainpyramid...

[Llywela]

Oh dear. After such a strong start to the season, it's all gone a bit pear-shaped now that we're back to the more typical Moffat-style storytelling. This whole 'President of the World' concept has never sat right with me since they introduced it, so any story that draws on it is an automatic miss for me, even before anything else goes wrong. I don't even know where to begin with the implausible stupid, and where earlier in the season the character dynamics were redeeming dodgy plots, they couldn't manage that here.

[Avon.Blakes7]

3 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Oh dear. After such a strong start to the season, it's all gone a bit pear-shaped now that we're back to the more typical Moffat-style storytelling. This whole 'President of the World' concept has never sat right with me since they introduced it, so any story that draws on it is an automatic miss for me, even before anything else goes wrong. I don't even know where to begin with the implausible stupid, and where earlier in the season the character dynamics were redeeming dodgy plots, they couldn't manage that here.

President of Earth & Gallifrey; truly been going on for decades! ...

[futurechemist]

Wow, so much of the bacteria plot required people to act like idiots.   We should get Health and Safety in here...

If you're in a lab that's dangerous enough to warrant wearing gloves, you should not be drinking coffee while wearing said gloves.
If you just saw bacteria liquify a room of plants, you shouldn't grab soil bare-handed.
If you are a bio lab working with dangerous enough stuff to be on UNIT's watch list and require full hazmat suits, then maybe store your samples in an airtight glovebox rather than a fume hood that vents into the air.
If you have a computer that can dial in how much of an enzyme the bacteria expresses (this itslef seems unrealistic to me...) maybe have some confirmation based system.  Kind of feels like the computer should warn you if you're entering a number wildly different than usual, say by missing a decimal point.
And for good measure, just because powerful aliens show you a simulation of Earth being destroyed, doesn't mean that Earth will be destroyed that way and you should immediately surrender.  Otherwise, Michael Bay would already be supreme overload of Earth.

Interesting dynamic for the 3-parter (assuming it concludes next week), where each episode is just about independent of the others.  Part 1 just served to introduce the alien villains and show they have knowledge of Earth.  Part 2 just served to get the planet under alien control.  But neither of those were strictly necessary for next week.

[AudienceofOne]

41 minutes ago, futurechemist said:

If you are a bio lab working with dangerous enough stuff to be on UNIT's watch list and require full hazmat suits, then maybe store your samples in an airtight glovebox rather than a fume hood that vents into the air.

I don't even know where to start with the stupid of that lab design for the type of work they're doing so I'll just skip to the end. Once they did a full shutdown of the lab, there is no way the lab would vent into the atmosphere. That's literally what a lockdown prevents. It'd be different if the tech died before he could lockdown the lab or something but we saw him lock it down. But all the doors were open and there was an automatic venting system designed to spew what they're working on into the atmosphere? So dumb.

[Beatriceblake]

5 hours ago, Avon.Blakes7 said:

Happens all the time! If she wanted to sacrifice herself fine; she's giving up the fate of the planet on her whim to give the Doctor back his sight! I hate that! ...

They might argue about the course of action but the companion usually defers to the Doctor when it comes to making an actual decision or they stand there passively while the Doctor makes it.

Also surely part of Bill's decision is wanting to keep the Doctor around to fight the next threat?

Oh well the real villain here was shoddy lab design ;-)

Edited May 28, 2017 by Beatriceblake

[wayne67]

4 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

I got taken out of the story by all the safety (or rather lack thereof) stupidity in the lab.

First and worst was the Doctor and Nardole walking out, unprotected, into a lab they knew was likely contaminated. And then the Doctor wanders around still unprotected with the bacterial-laden mist all around him.

Yeah I'm a bit lost with the Doctor staying clear of the blast... If he's alive, how does he know he's not a carrier? It's not like he knew what kind of bacteria they were dealing with to know he had some kind of immunity to it. It apparently kills EVERY organism on the Earth, that's a very powerful bacteria, it might not kill the Doctor but it could infect him since he was contaminated with it.

Also if Nardole is a cyborg... shouldn't he have worn a face mask? Shouldn't they both have? Or shouldn't the Tardis have erected an air shield around them while they investigated the situation? Ugh so much stupidity. 

It reminds of the episode where the Doctor 'accidentally' landed in a quarantine zone and they ended up killing a future version of Amy. 

This season has been steadily getting worse. Or at least this three parter, has had one confusing part and one frustrating part. Maybe they'll bring it all home... Lol who am I kidding. It's all downhill in the executions/endings with Moffat. *sigh*

At least Bill still doesn't aggravate me as much as Clara did... so that's something I guess. 

[Triskan]

I've been truly enjoying this season so far ! Extremis and Thin Ice are remarkable episodes, Oxygen and the Pilot are really good too...

But damn, Pyramid was a complete let down, borderline lame, everything was phony and predictable, it send zero shivers down my spine, it was cheesy and unecessary complicated, I dont recall a single memorable line and the plot was kinda poor, unoriginal and mostly easy.

But I'm not ranting for the sake of ranting, I love Doctor Who and I will always do, but each season, there is a traditionally bad episode... I was hoping the meh Knock Knock would be it, but now, Pyramid has taken that slot for me.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Triskan

[clack]

DW is frequently at its silliest when it tries to depict contemporary events at a governmental level.

A young woman in charge of the Chinese army? And the Russian and the American seemed to be in their thirties -- no way are they generals in real life. Also, where are the actual US, Russian, and Chinese governments in all this? Content to let the UN Secretary General and some soldiers negotiate the fate of the world?

And that President of the World nonsense -- what exactly does the Doctor command? Who is obliged to follow his orders? It's not the armed forces or the UN, apparently.

[Primetimer]

Or has she merely blinded the Doctor with science?

View the full article

[benteen]

I actually really enjoyed this one.  I thought it was tense (though the ending was predictable) and I like the villains.  A few good lines like “What is that thing?”  “That’s Nardole.”  I certainly think it was an improvement over last week.

But I’ll certainly acknowledge the flaws.  The behavior of the three generals definitely as that would not have been their response or the response of the governments they represent.  Then again, it’s never been believable that the nations of the world would all the Doctor to be “President of the World” in times of crisis either.  That’s definitely a Moffat thing.  At the same time, you go out of your way to give the Doctor all of this power in a crisis and then the UN Secretary-General (it’s REALLY laughable to imagine the head of one of the most corrupt and ineffectual organizations on the planet having this kind of authority) and the three generals all decide to undermine his authority.  So what was the point of making the Doctor “the President of the World” then?  He might as well just be their ambassador if they’re not going to listen to him.

I understand why Bill made the decision she did although I agree that was Clara Oswald-level selfishness (*cough*CLARA*cough*).  The Doctor’s refusal to ever discuss the concept of regeneration until it actually happens bit him there although if he had been smart, he would have liked to Bill at the end and cut the feed so she didn’t know what happened.

I like Bill a lot and she’s a breath of fresh air after Clara.  But she hasn’t had a real standout moment yet as the Doctor’s companion.  Hopefully that will change.

[Llywela]

8 hours ago, Avon.Blakes7 said:

President of Earth & Gallifrey; truly been going on for decades! ...

The Doctor as President of Gallifrey is a concept that goes back decades, and it is at least his own world. The Doctor as President of Earth is a Moffat thing, and is wildly implausible at best.

[KirkB]

Soo...these monks have been watching Earth for who knows how long, figuring out how best to endanger humanity so they can step in and 'save' them, and it turns out the real treat is a hungover idiot in possibly the worst designed lab ever? They didn't DO anything. If that guy had decided not to got out or called in sick they'd just be out of luck.

I was also a little taken aback by how the last episode ended with some urgency, and with the Doctor in a position where he was considering turning to Missy for help, and this week opens with Bill trying her virtual date for real and the Doctor and Nardole just hanging around.

Honestly, to me the whole episode felt kind of pointless. Like it was the setup for something more interesting to come, rather than trying to be interesting itself. It wasn't bad, it just was kind of...there.

Edited May 28, 2017 by KirkB

[alrightokay]

I think I'm just not a Harness fan.  He tries so hard to be deep, but his explorations of abortion, "illegal aliens," war, and consent have felt so clumsy and over-the-top.  I know I sound harsh, because DW has kids in the audience, so Harness can't really be too complex or nuanced in examining these issues.  But he seems to think that he's being progressive in having women make the climactic choices in all of his stories (Clara in "Kill the Moon," Kate and Bonnie in "The Zygon Invasion/Inversion," Bill here), when he doesn't make their choices believable.  It's true that in all of the situations, the characters are under time-pressure, so it's hard to show them thinking out their decisions, but out of the three stories he's written, I only somewhat enjoyed the Zygon two-parter, mostly because of Twelve's interactions with Osgood.  I also liked how Osgood and Bonnie refused to reveal which one was human at the end.  But the "Truth or Consequences" scene, which I know a lot of people loved, just fell flat for me (the "game show" language Twelve used for a bit there really felt out of place).  I think Moffat (or Chibnall from here on out) needs to rein in Harness' desire to make "grand statements," because he isn't able to pull them off in a thought-provoking way. 

[Avon.Blakes7]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

The Doctor as President of Gallifrey is a concept that goes back decades, and it is at least his own world. The Doctor as President of Earth is a Moffat thing, and is wildly implausible at best.

He officially owns it after saving its very existence so many times! You know this already! The world powers acknowledge it as such proclaiming him "President Of Earth!" When the President of the USA is brought forward as the official leader of the planet, he's usually knocked off! ...

[ganesh]

I had to laugh when the secretary of the UN guy was "consenting" because he really doesn't have any power over anything. 

I also laughed when the Doctor said, "Sit down and google!" and they played the big Doctoring music. 

I don't mind the Russian, Chinese, and American actually discussing surrender, but you do have the Doctor on your side and a TARDIS. History has shown this is an *enormous* advantage.

I do give Bill credit for keeping her wits about her when she was the only one there with the monks. I wouldn't have consented though. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by ganesh

[ganesh]

15 hours ago, FiveByFive said:

 The Doctor never explaining to Bill that if he dies he should "regenerate" into a new version of himself.

That was a big fireball though. The Doctor could have been disintegrated. If he was just badly burned, then I think he could regen. Then again, he could have shielded himself from the blast so he wouldn't be disintegrated. Was there a mirror in the room? He could have held it up so Erica could see the lock. Or could the sonic glasses be made into a mirror? 

10 hours ago, Beatriceblake said:

Also surely part of Bill's decision is wanting to keep the Doctor around to fight the next threat?

I thought Bill actually said that in front of the monk after the Doctor got his sight back. In which case, her motives were never pure in the first place and should have died. 

I don't really like "earth invasion" stories and don't think the show is at its best when the scale is so big. The fact that the existence of aliens is real in the Whoverse would give most of the planet massive PTSD. The show can't be complex enough to actually deal with the consequences of invading aliens because it's for kids, so I'd rather they just didn't bother. 

I could buy that knowing of the Doctor's existence was for the highest levels of security. 

[benteen]

2 hours ago, alrightokay said:

I think I'm just not a Harness fan.  He tries so hard to be deep, but his explorations of abortion, "illegal aliens," war, and consent have felt so clumsy and over-the-top.  I know I sound harsh, because DW has kids in the audience, so Harness can't really be too complex or nuanced in examining these issues.  But he seems to think that he's being progressive in having women make the climactic choices in all of his stories (Clara in "Kill the Moon," Kate and Bonnie in "The Zygon Invasion/Inversion," Bill here), when he doesn't make their choices believable.  It's true that in all of the situations, the characters are under time-pressure, so it's hard to show them thinking out their decisions, but out of the three stories he's written, I only somewhat enjoyed the Zygon two-parter, mostly because of Twelve's interactions with Osgood.  I also liked how Osgood and Bonnie refused to reveal which one was human at the end.  But the "Truth or Consequences" scene, which I know a lot of people loved, just fell flat for me (the "game show" language Twelve used for a bit there really felt out of place).  I think Moffat (or Chibnall from here on out) needs to rein in Harness' desire to make "grand statements," because he isn't able to pull them off in a thought-provoking way. 

Agreed.  He has big ideas but doesn't make the resolutions believable.

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, Avon.Blakes7 said:

He officially owns it after saving its very existence so many times! You know this already! The world powers acknowledge it as such proclaiming him "President Of Earth!" When the President of the USA is brought forward as the official leader of the planet, he's usually knocked off! ...

No. The Doctor as 'President of Earth' just isn't my Doctor Who. Like ganesh said above, Doctor Who works best for me when it doesn't try to be so big, when the Doctor is the stranger helping out as he breezes through, rather than this grandiose figure called in by the world powers and given a fancy title - which makes no sense even within the context of the story, since he clearly has no actual decision-making power. And the fact that they were able to find him so easily only draws attention to the complications inherent in suggesting that he's been living in the same place for a long time now - through all kinds of other invasions that his other selves experienced. If the world powers know where he is now, surely someone would have become aware of him earlier - that's the kind of detail that really is best without having attention drawn to it.

[ganesh]

I can buy UNIT; a group working in secret to combat alien threats and the Doctor dealing with them from time to time. But, I mean, how many "big earth things" have happened since Nine rebooted the series? It's too much.

[Enigma X]

I'm gonna tell ya. I am lost about who knows of the existence of the Doctor. I thought he was "outed" in the recent past to the general public of Earth. (Whether that is true, I don't like that idea.) I guess I was wrong though.

Anyway, I hated this episode and not because of what Bill did. I would be a horrible leader, because I would sacrifice you all for a loved one. I hated it because it made no sense as most of you have pointed out.

[ZoqFotPik]

8 hours ago, clack said:

American seemed to be in their thirties -- no way are they generals in real life.

I don't know if the Chinese or Russian uniforms were any better, but the American was addressed as colonel but had four stars on his uniform and beret. 

[ganesh]

I thought the world finally knew about the Doctor when they had the xmas special right after Nine regenerated. I don't recall any "big earth drama" with Nine. I think there was the Syltheen with Nine because that's where we first met MP Harriet Jones who went on to be PM, but at the time, I thought Nine was only known to a few people in the government. 

I don't mind the Doctor associating with world leaders, Eleven and Nixon was entertaining (the legs, the nose, and mrs robinson), but I'm not seeing Nixon telling anyone about the Doctor. 

Which is too bad because you could have had the monks run a simulation about the world finding out about aliens and the Doctor and present and interesting situation where they could threaten to out the Doctor.

[tennisgurl]

Honestly, I've always wondered how much people actually know about the Doctor and aliens, and I don't just mean UNIT or people in the upper levels of security or anything. Just...normal people. How much do people actually KNOW? Because Earth in this verse is pretty much exactly like our Earth, no references to people knowing about aliens or multiple invasions or anything like that (all of that seems to happen behind closed doors) and the culture hasn't changed or anything, but shit like this happens all the time, and when people see this kind of stuff, they're reactions are usually just "huh, ok" or something. Like, all the military people here were just like "So a strange man who is apparently president of Earth just pulled me into a magic time box to discuss aliens wanting to conquer the Earth through a pyramid? Sounds legit". There have been several, very public invasions of Earth by aliens, there's no way they've hidden everything. Do people know about the whole President of Earth thing (which I totally forgot about)? Do people run alien invasion drills in schools? Are there TV shows where wacky alien families come to Earth and have to adapt? Does any of this have political ramifications? Its never been touched on, but the show keeps bringing it up!

Its not bacteria that almost killed the planet, its truly terrible lab safety and some dumbass hung over scientist. Seriously, it was insane how terrible that lab safety was, and how stupid the scientists had to have been. If they're working on possible air pathogens, why the HELL would you have air vents lying around? Other, smarter people have gone into this more, but its pretty ridiculous that this whole plot revolves around people being stupid.

And that's how Bill enslaved the human race! Look, I get that it was a culmination of her character building, and her trusting that the Doctor would save Earth (because, as he said, this happens pretty much every Thursday) eventually, and that all lives are worth saving, but...it looks like she just totally screwed over EVERYONE ON THE PLANET just to save her friend, even as the villains were backing off. Maybe next week will help deal with this, but, from here, it looks horrifically selfish. I've really liked Bill so far, so I hope this gets wrapped up soon and she can redeem herself, or at least explain her choice better. The biggest reason I could see her doing what she did, that wasn't totally hilariously selfish, was that the Doctor is too important to let die. So, lets just put a pin in that.

I would also like to know the it is that these guys want Earth this much to put this much effort into it. I mean, Earth is pretty cool and all, but of all the planets in the entire galaxy, so are aliens always so keen on going after us? What did we do to them? Are those probs we sent out translated into "Come at me bro" in all alien languages?

I did enjoy some things. I liked that they cast a little person as Erica, and didn't call any attention to it and just let her be a scientist. I liked that the military types weren't stereotypical "blow up everything!" army people, and were actually pretty reasonable about everything. I liked Bill having her second date being interrupted again. And, I don't know if it was supposed to be funny, but I laughed super hard at "Quickly everyone, to Google! Google damn you! Google like the wind!"

I'm glad this Monk thing is almost over, its been my least favorite part of what has otherwise been a really solid season. This seemed like one of those classic "we had a cool idea, and no idea what to actually do with it" episodes.

Edited May 28, 2017 by tennisgurl

[AudienceofOne]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I'm glad this Monk thing is almost over, its been my least favorite part of what has otherwise been a really solid season. This seemed like one of those classic "we had a cool idea, and no idea what to actually do with it" episodes.

Also - and I wasn't going to bring this up last episode because I didn't want to offend anybody but after this episode I feel I have to - we had an episode where the Catholics were the heroes against Monks and the Vatican contained the book of truth. And now the Monks wants to enslave us by manipulating our capacity for love. And what do they want to save us from? Science! I just feel like this show either doesn't care about the kinds of message it's sending these days or, worse, it does. 

I mean, this may be a nice allegory for the way in which religious organisations operate if we didn't have the Pope and the Doctor running around last episode like some sort of bros. The Catholic Church is little more than a giant real estate business that gets its money by siphoning it off the world's poorest. But in this they're the heroes and it's the Monks that are the slavers? And they're in a pyramid, which represents the spirituality of the Egyptians and their beliefs about the afterlife and it's in the middle of a war zone but it's science, not war, that's going to destroy us? And did I mention we're only going to be saved from science by unquestioning obedience to a higher power based on love?

The world's militaries are ready to shake hands and get along in less time than it takes to brew a cuppa and do a Google search while the monks are making us choose between annihilation and slavery? And meanwhile, GM will kill us all but monks are our salvation and did I mention the Vatican has the book of truth? 

I feel like each episode is essentially meaningless and if it isn't supposed to be meaningless then the meanings become pretty horrendous. This reminds me of earlier in the season where we couldn't defend ourselves against the killer robots because they were deemed "Indigenous lifeforms" and nobody sat down and thought through the implications of that statement for a moment.

This show actually used to be about something. Everything episode explored history, science, morality or the nature of existence. Now it's all !Dinosaurs! On A !Spaceship! like "Wouldn't that be so cool!" Or "what if the moon was a lifeform and we make a woman choose between her own life or the baby and when she chooses the baby we go "Psych, your life wasn't in danger at all so always CHOOSE LIFE" and then we don't realise at all what we just wrote.

Or, as I said, maybe they did. 

[QuantumMechanic]

1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

This show actually used to be about something. Everything episode explored history, science, morality or the nature of existence.

Like the farting aliens?  Or the fellating masonry?

[tennisgurl]

I spent most of the episode just wishing someone told those freaking Monks that they clearly have a different definition of "consent" than we do. They keep using that word, I don't think it means what they think it means. Its not consent if someone is being threatened into something! They say they want consent to take over the world a million times, but its not consent if your doing it because your being threatened. Even when Bill finally gave the "right" consent because she wanted to save the Doctor. If humanity gave real consent, the Monks would show up, humanity would instantly welcome our Robed Overlords and that would be that. I just wanted someone to call them out on that tiny bit of bullshit.

When the Monks were showing the humans the bad future that would follow, it just reminded me of that scene in one of the Austin Powers sequels where Dr. Evil scares the crap out of the world leaders by showing that clip from Independence Day where the aliens blow up the White House. I know they said it "felt" real, but really, for all they know, they just watched clips from a shitty blockbuster from 20 years in the future.

[hnygrl]

Haven't read the forum yet but I just had a thought that shocked me to my core. THE TARDIS IS STILL NOT TRANSLATING!!!!! THE TARDIS. IS STILL. NOT. TRANSLATING.

Is this the real life, or is it just fantasy? Is this the doctor's way of fooling the foolers? Is this even real?

Interesting.

[AudienceofOne]

14 minutes ago, hnygrl said:

Haven't read the forum yet but I just had a thought that shocked me to my core. THE TARDIS IS STILL NOT TRANSLATING!!!!! THE TARDIS. IS STILL. NOT. TRANSLATING.

Is this the real life, or is it just fantasy? Is this the doctor's way of fooling the foolers? Is this even real?

Interesting.

Considering the episode ended with the Monks miraculously restoring the Doctor's sight - a MIRACLE just to give a nod to my former rant - I wouldn't be surprised if we discovered this was still a simulation. Otherwise I have no idea how they managed that. It would be a nice twist that this is another variation of the invasion model the aliens are conducting.

[hnygrl]

Never ever forget rule Number one:

THE DOCTOR LIES!!!!!!

Still hated the episode and think it's the weakest one yet (saw the deaths coming like from the beginning of the freaking episode almost), but I do feel better thinking that maybe this is the Doctor's way of kicking alien ass without harming actual humans. Lord Jesus? Please, please let it be so.

It is such a MOFFAT thing to do too...Please. Please let me be right! The whole four episode thing was a simulation. First by the monks then by the Doctor.

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Just...normal people. How much do people actually KNOW? Because Earth in this verse is pretty much exactly like our Earth, no references to people knowing about aliens or multiple invasions or anything like that (all of that seems to happen behind closed doors) and the culture hasn't changed or anything, but shit like this happens all the time, and when people see this kind of stuff, they're reactions are usually just "huh, ok" or something. Like, all the military people here were just like "So a strange man who is apparently president of Earth just pulled me into a magic time box to discuss aliens wanting to conquer the Earth through a pyramid? Sounds legit". There have been several, very public invasions of Earth by aliens, there's no way they've hidden everything. Do people know about the whole President of Earth thing (which I totally forgot about)? Do people run alien invasion drills in schools? Are there TV shows where wacky alien families come to Earth and have to adapt? Does any of this have political ramifications? Its never been touched on, but the show keeps bringing it up!

That's the problem. This really started with Ten. Humanity, on the show, knows that there's aliens, knows that some of these aliens are hostile. There was a bit with Ten and Wilf, before Wilf was a Companion, where, Wilf said, 'most everyone in London left the city on xmas because the last few years have been alien invasions.' It just doesn't work out if you think about it too much. Who really knows who the Doctor is? 

2 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we discovered this was still a simulation.

That's brilliant. I do hope that's the resolution because the earth being subjugated *again* is ridiculous. 

[RobertDeSneero]

This is a Doctor undone by hubris.  He doesn't like to give more information than he needs to and he probably gets off on being able to negotiate the world without telling anyone that he is blind.  Getting too caught up in his cleverness had a price.

[John Potts]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

...it looks like she just totally screwed over EVERYONE ON THE PLANET just to save her friend, even as the villains were backing off.

You know who allows their selfish desires to over ride the welfare of the world (over the explicit instructions of the person they were saving, no less!)? The VILLAIN. Do I expect the show to acknowledge that? I  strongly doubt it.

I can see I'm going to hate this episode more the more I think about it.

[darkestboy]

I loved it. I mean I saw Bill being the one to actually consent to the Monks demands a mile off but it still worked rather well though.

I assume next episode will explain better why they want the Earth though.

The three superpower groups were dealt with decently enough but not having UNIT factor into things felt a little odd.

Some great moments with Twelve, Bill and Nardole as well as Douglas and Erica.

The previously on bit with Bill/Penny was clever too, 9/10

[alrightokay]

14 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Never ever forget rule Number one:

THE DOCTOR LIES!!!!!!

Still hated the episode and think it's the weakest one yet (saw the deaths coming like from the beginning of the freaking episode almost), but I do feel better thinking that maybe this is the Doctor's way of kicking alien ass without harming actual humans. Lord Jesus? Please, please let it be so.

It is such a MOFFAT thing to do too...Please. Please let me be right! The whole four episode thing was a simulation. First by the monks then by the Doctor.

I hope you're right; being a counter-simulation would redeem this episode for me.

10 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

This is a Doctor undone by hubris.  He doesn't like to give more information than he needs to and he probably gets off on being able to negotiate the world without telling anyone that he is blind.  Getting too caught up in his cleverness had a price.

That's another reason this episode felt "off" to me, though--I can see Ten or Eleven being undone by hubris, but not Twelve.  Twelve is the one who questioned whether he was a "good man" in S8, called himself an "idiot" in "Death in Heaven," and saw the price Clara had to pay for her hubris in "Face the Raven" (and then he had to pay the price of forgetting her after bringing her back to life).  Through his time with River, he's also had to accept that "things end" and "some things can't be avoided."  It just seems like this Doctor has learned the hard way not to be smug.  I can see why he'd want to hide his blindness from the Monks, to not look vulnerable, but for him to be all self-congratulatory ("Handsome Doctor! Adorable, hugely intelligent, but still approachable Doctor!") and then flirty with Erica felt more like Ten/Eleven to me.  Hopefully, as hnygrl hypothesized, Twelve is purposely acting this way to create a simulation in which the Monks "win," so then he can eventually figure out how to best them.

[ganesh]

I could totally buy that. I mean, we haven't seen UNIT at all, right? They would most certainly know if a giant pyramid landed on the planet and all the clocks changed to 11.57. The Doctor also picked up random military people when he could have easily summoned world leaders. 

[call me ishmael]

I hope you are right although i think you are giving Moffat too much credit as a writer.

i didn't think those were random military people but the ones on the scene most likely to panic.

[Mabinogia]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 3:18 AM, AudienceofOne said:

Once they did a full shutdown of the lab, there is no way the lab would vent into the atmosphere. That's literally what a lockdown prevents.

This is the hardest part to get over for me. I actually had to rewind because I thought I'd misunderstood. So, the show logic is, there is a lab that has double lock doors, where people wear hazmat suits, all of which imply that what they are working on is very dangerous and probably quite toxic. So, to what, protect the lab it sends the toxic fumes into the atmosphere? I must be missing something. I still don't get how that is supposed to be remotely logical.

After that, Erica's partner in the lab was a fucking moron. He left the freaking door open, took his mask off, handled the dirt that plants just mysteriously died in with his bare hands. Sorry, but that guy was begging to die.

After that, the "world leaders" annoyed me. Why did none of them ask what "consent" actually meant? I mean, sure, maybe these Monk Aliens just want them to build big status and worship them as gods, but does this mean human sacrifices, or just a few holidays with big meals? Does it mean absolute slavery? Does it mean surrendering every first born child? What? I was on the Monks' side when they dusted the three military leaders who were doing it for strategy. Dumbasses, they specifically told you your consent had to be pure.

I see that some had problems with Bill consenting and I understand, but I like that she did it. She has absolute trust that the doctor. She is only human, and she followed her heart. I think her reasoning was, if the Doctor died, then next time an alien came to take over the Earth there would be no one to stop them, but if the Doctor is alive, he can find a way out of this deal, which we all know is exactly what is going to happen.

All that said, this was my least favorite episode so far this season. The plot had to be twisted far too much (characters having to do incredibly stupid things) to get from point A to point B. There was not enough character interaction/study for me. I didn't feel any attachment to any of the side characters. I wasn't thrilled with the stylistic smashing of the glass stuff. That felt very forced and contrived. Overall I hope this episode was a gitch in what has been, until now, a great season.

[ganesh]

32 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

After that, the "world leaders" annoyed me. Why did none of them ask what "consent" actually meant? I mean, sure, maybe these Monk Aliens just want them to build big status and worship them as gods, but does this mean human sacrifices, or just a few holidays with big meals? Does it mean absolute slavery? Does it mean surrendering every first born child? What? I was on the Monks' side when they dusted the three military leaders who were doing it for strategy. Dumbasses, they specifically told you your consent had to be pure.

This is one of the problem with "big earth stories." No one remembers Children of Earth, the last time aliens came in and made demands? Certainly some protocol had to have been put in place. You'd think being invaded by so many aliens would lead to political turmoil.