S04.E08: Sari, Not Sari...

[JenE4]

In one brief moment, Kensie gives T-Rav an epic side-eye when he was lecturing her on the beauty of Charleston's rich historic architecture. That look was everything!

Naomi and Craig, cut your losses and move on BEFORE getting married, having kids... 

Pass your partner to the left: Landon wants Austen; Shep wants Chelsea. Then again, Landon seems like she'd just as readily take Shep or T-Rav.

Huh? Why does T-Rav need like 24"x36" glossy matted prints of building damage of the building they're sitting in? Has Arthur Ravenel not stepped outside since T-Rav left the Citadel that he doesn't know his door jamb is rotting? Couldn't the cameraman have just taken a quick shot?

OMG. Austen's sister. How unbelievably tragic.

Georgette is Kathryn (lookswise) in 50 years IF she managed to hold it together to become the consummate Mrs Ravenel, as modeled after Patricia.

Daisy is still wearing her opera gloves! Lol! I wonder what's under there? Has to be something...  I'm going with permanent dye damage from one of those ink packs exploding from robbing a bank. 

Hmm. That psychic was correct about Cam's pregnancy #1 and Craig passing the bar. But unless Craig changes DRASTICALLY, I can't see the "soul mates" thing with Naomi. The camera kept panning to T-Rav re Landon's unidendified soul mate, but we already established that she would gladly take Shep or Austen, too; I suppose T-Rav is the only one who would take her, though. 
 

[LIMOM]

I am not buying into the T-Rav impregnated Kathryn because she was imbalanced and he could easily be rid of her.

what is this?

A Daphne du Maurier's Southern charm adaptation?

Or is it the Sargasso Sea's without the sea?

They fucked. She got pregnant twice. ENd of the story. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by LIMOM

[ScoobieDoobs]

23 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Track marks?

I think I have said a kind thing or two about Craig but this episode was it for me.  I HATE the way he speaks to people when he gets angry.  He gets mean and condescending and I think he is a huge douchebag.  Even though he may have some handy skills around the house, his attitude makes it not worth it.    When they kept flashing to him calling Naomi 'child' it made me seethe.  That would be the LAST thing he ever said to me if he were my boyfriend.  One of us would be packed and out of the house by morning.  

As mentioned earlier, I am glad that even with Georgette in attendance there was no political talk.  Who by the way has really fucked up her face with a visit or two too many with her plastic surgeon.  

Yeah, I could believe Whitney's beard is as drug-adled as Kathryn.

Man, Craig is really looking like such an asshole lately.  I can't say I'm thrilled with Naomie's never-ending petulant sullen shtick, but Craig treats her like crap.  Hope for their sake this is all scripted.  She does sound so monotone, so I'm wondering if that's because she's reciting a script with no emotion or because she's just dull.

Georgette is actually a really unlikable, hateful, extremely snooty snobbish character.  Just as well we didn't hear too much from her.  Now, Patrish is snooty & snobbish too -- and yet I dig her on the show, but ONLY in small doses.  And Patrish kinda makes me howl when she gets in these comments on Whitney having kids.  I mean, come now.  Wasn't she in the arts herself?  She doesn't know he's gay?  Please.  Oh, she knows the deal on Whitney.  She knows.  So are these dopey comments for our benefit -- just like him parading around the ridiculous beards & saying bro a zilliion times?  Oh, Whitney, go find yourself a partner on Tinder in LA & adopt some kids & make Patrish happy before she kicks off.

I wanna say I loved Georgette's diamond, but I didn't.  It looked murky & cloudy & too big & gaudy.  Now, it may be that TV can't actually capture what it looks like in person.  I didn't especially believe Cams' badly acted reaction to the ring.  But Cams is so full of shit lately, I pretty much believe nothing of what she says or does.

[Natalie68]

59 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

In one brief moment, Kensie gives T-Rav an epic side-eye when he was lecturing her on the beauty of Charleston's rich historic architecture. That look was everything!

Naomi and Craig, cut your losses and move on BEFORE getting married, having kids... 

Pass your partner to the left: Landon wants Austen; Shep wants Chelsea. Then again, Landon seems like she'd just as readily take Shep or T-Rav.

Huh? Why does T-Rav need like 24"x36" glossy matted prints of building damage of the building they're sitting in? Has Arthur Ravenel not stepped outside since T-Rav left the Citadel that he doesn't know his door jamb is rotting? Couldn't the cameraman have just taken a quick shot?

OMG. Austen's sister. How unbelievably tragic.

Georgette is Kathryn (lookswise) in 50 years IF she managed to hold it together to become the consummate Mrs Ravenel, as modeled after Patricia.

Daisy is still wearing her opera gloves! Lol! I wonder what's under there? Has to be something...  I'm going with permanent dye damage from one of those ink packs exploding from robbing a bank. 

Hmm. That psychic was correct about Cam's pregnancy #1 and Craig passing the bar. But unless Craig changes DRASTICALLY, I can't see the "soul mates" thing with Naomi. The camera kept panning to T-Rav re Landon's unidendified soul mate, but we already established that she would gladly take Shep or Austen, too; I suppose T-Rav is the only one who would take her, though. 
 

I like your answer better than mine!

[scrb]

Interesting that the women are skeptical of Kathryn having cleaned up her act but Craig and Shep want others to forgive her, give her another chance.

Because it's not really just about Thomas and Kathryn being cordial with each other for the sake of the kids.  That would be none of her business anyways.

No they're trying to convince Landon and Cameron to give Kathryn another chance  at being part of the social circle.  Except it's not a real circle because they don't really hang out that much outside of the show.  So it would be to film scenes together for the show.

Looks like Cam will be roped into going with Whitney to meet her in the next episode.

Bravo just couldn't leave it alone.

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Yeah, I could believe Whitney's beard is as drug-adled as Kathryn.

Man, Craig is really looking like such an asshole lately.  I can't say I'm thrilled with Naomie's never-ending petulant sullen shtick, but Craig treats her like crap.  Hope for their sake this is all scripted.  She does sound so monotone, so I'm wondering if that's because she's reciting a script with no emotion or because she's just dull.

Georgette is actually a really unlikable, hateful, extremely snooty snobbish character.  Just as well we didn't hear too much from her.  Now, Patrish is snooty & snobbish too -- and yet I dig her on the show, but ONLY in small doses.  And Patrish kinda makes me howl when she gets in these comments on Whitney having kids.  I mean, come now.  Wasn't she in the arts herself?  She doesn't know he's gay?  Please.  Oh, she knows the deal on Whitney.  She knows.  So are these dopey comments for our benefit -- just like him parading around the ridiculous beards & saying bro a zilliion times?  Oh, Whitney, go find yourself a partner on Tinder in LA & adopt some kids & make Patrish happy before she kicks off.

I wanna say I loved Georgette's diamond, but I didn't.  It looked murky & cloudy & too big & gaudy.  Now, it may be that TV can't actually capture what it looks like in person.  I didn't especially believe Cams' badly acted reaction to the ring.  But Cams is so full of shit lately, I pretty much believe nothing of what she says or does.

Scooby, you know I adore you BUT I think Naomie, dog face girl, is the one that is being pretty awful.  I rarely if ever comment on a Bravolebrity's looks, but Naomi with the big nose and the weird eyes, is not that good looking.  I find her very insecure and at the same time darn mean to Craig.   It is his show and all she seems to be concerned about is making time with the "cool kids".  Who does that to a betrothed?  Naomie kind of did a Heather Dubrow with the yelling comment, no dog face girl, when someone doesn't agree with you they aren't yelling.  Naomie flipped her cookies as soon as Craig talked about buying a rental property because she is so worried he will leave. 

I don't think Naomie has a role if she and Craig split the sheets.  They already have Landon.

[corter20]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Kathryn made her choices they are not Thomas' responsibility.  My guess is if Kathryn were given a million dollars she would go away and not look back at her children until the money ran out. Kathryn's personality, disorders and all are hers to own.  There isn't a competent court in the world that would hold Thomas or anyone else responsible for Kathryn's choices.  Kathryn was the one failing drug tests or refusing to take them and had she not been so greedy and pushed things into court, she would probably be enjoying some sort of relationship with her children. She is a petty, mean, vindictive individual who did not hesitate to use her children for financial gain.    

I don't buy that Thomas wanted to have children and have a nanny raise the children.  I would concede that Thomas probably thought between Kathryn's six figure salary and some child support he could enjoy co-parenting after it became obvious that he and Kathryn could not live under the same roof. Kathryn held the children for ransom, it would be irresponsible as a parent to continue to partially fund her drug fueled lifestyle.  There is just too much testimony and evidence that indicates Kathryn is not terribly interested in her children and has serious substance abuse and mental health issues. 

Having said all that, I do think Thomas should have shut Cameran down and stood by his friends.  It really isn't up to Thomas to run interference with the others when it comes to Kathryn.  Whatever issues Thomas and Kathryn have should not dictate who talks to Kathryn or Thomas for that matter.  Whitney, Craig, Shep, JD, Elizabeth are all allowed to have interaction with Kathryn and it is not  Cameran or Landon's business.   

He is pretty much letting the nannies raise them now so I don't see what the difference would be. He is providing for his children (and doing well at it), but other than that, most of the hardships of parenting is put on the nanny while he contI use to seek out 20 year old college students. He couldn't even handle staying in with his children while being evacuated during the hurricane. He went out bar hopping. I say this though to say that's kathryn would be doing the same. She was not a mother to her children. Both Thomas and Kathryn used each other to benefit themselves, but one was too mentally messed up and young to see through that. At least Thomas saw that Kathryn was playing him too and got what he wanted out of the relationship in a way that benefited him. 

I am not supporting Kathryn at all. She has a long road ahead of her if she even makes it down the road. She is vile, but I can also see that she has a mental disorder that scores some sympathy from me because a lot of her behaviors are impulsive and a resort of the mental disorder(s) and alcohol/drug abuse. What irks me is that the people who need to be there for Kathryn and realize that there is more going on than drugs are failing her. Her parents are failing her and I think Thomas could care less because he got what he wanted out of her. She is not a victim in any of this because she caused all of this, but she needs help and people who have mental disorders can't always get the help on their own. The drug and alcohol abuse will not go away until the mental problems are taken care of. She is either going to end up dead or need a 5150 hold in order to get an evaluation started for further help. 

[Gem 10]

20 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't think Kathryn has had a change of heart. I think she's still manipulative, selfish, and immature. However, I'm never going to feel sorry for Thomas. Kathryn had a pregnancy scare in episode 3 of season 1 and Thomas continued to fuck her without a condom. This is the same careless cavalier behavior that helped him to enjoy a federal vacation. He makes dumb decisions and whines about the shit consequences. Two of his friends also slept with Kathryn, but wound up with 0 children by her.

Kathryn is reaching out to the group because the producers, who aren't Whitney, decided they wanted Kathryn to come back, do an apology tour, and hopefully make amends. Like it or not, Kathryn was a large part of the success of the previous seasons and the producers aren't quite comfortable with the idea of the show without Kathryn. I think after this season the show can survive without her, but I can see why the producers weren't sure about it during filming.

I know I'm going to get feedback from this, but here goes.  I know Thomas has a nanny in the cottage taking care of the kids.  BUT, they are being taken care of, fed, kept clean, and he seems to give them love and attention.   He can afford a caregiver, so why not.

Show me a man who doesn't make bad decisions and doesn't whine.  I am married a long time.  If I didn't tell my husband to get the condom at the moment, I would have had a baby every year instead of the three I have.  I put the blame on Katherine.  She wanted to get pregnant both times IMO.  

[zoeysmom]

35 minutes ago, corter20 said:

He is pretty much letting the nannies raise them now so I don't see what the difference would be. He is providing for his children (and doing well at it), but other than that, most of the hardships of parenting is put on the nanny while he contI use to seek out 20 year old college students. He couldn't even handle staying in with his children while being evacuated during the hurricane. He went out bar hopping. I say this though to say that's kathryn would be doing the same. She was not a mother to her children. Both Thomas and Kathryn used each other to benefit themselves, but one was too mentally messed up and young to see through that. At least Thomas saw that Kathryn was playing him too and got what he wanted out of the relationship in a way that benefited him. 

I am not supporting Kathryn at all. She has a long road ahead of her if she even makes it down the road. She is vile, but I can also see that she has a mental disorder that scores some sympathy from me because a lot of her behaviors are impulsive and a resort of the mental disorder(s) and alcohol/drug abuse. What irks me is that the people who need to be there for Kathryn and realize that there is more going on than drugs are failing her. Her parents are failing her and I think Thomas could care less because he got what he wanted out of her. She is not a victim in any of this because she caused all of this, but she needs help and people who have mental disorders can't always get the help on their own. The drug and alcohol abuse will not go away until the mental problems are taken care of. She is either going to end up dead or need a 5150 hold in order to get an evaluation started for further help. 

Thomas like many working parents has a nanny during his work hours,  There is no night time nanny and he stays with the children in the guest house as it does not have a killer staircase.  I do think Thomas is entitled to a little recreational time, I would support a single mom, without a father in the picture have a night or two out.  No one ever criticizes a parent who works and has daycare.  Someone has to pay the bills.  Thomas keeps the children in healthy activities just like millions of other single parents do every day.

It really isn't Thomas' responsibility to make concessions for Kathryn.  His duty is to his children.  These people had children together, it is not about what Kathryn wants or needs.  It is only about the children.  Their reasons for having the children are immaterial. Children should not have to wait until mom gets her shit together.   

Kathryn has availed herself to help, but she is so crazy jealous she can't see her way through to acting in the best interests of her children.  At best she and Thomas had a six month relationship.  Who fires a godparent?  Oh that would be Kathryn.  People make mistakes who they partner and parent with, Thomas has taken responsibility for the children.  Kathryn is unable to,  No one cares who was 23 and who was 51.  I am far more concerned that given any type of unsupervised visitation with her children Kathryn might so something rash-and the Court agrees with me.

[RHJunkie]

Whitney did not look at all amused when they asked the question about him having a kid. So the psychic was right about Cam and to an extent, Craig. He passed the bar but he'll need some time before starting up his own firm. I do wish him a lot of success though - the idea that he wants to make a lot of money so that he can invest back into his community and to charities that he believes in is an admirable reason to strive for monetary success. 

I know I'm a broken record but Landon is just so damn annoying. Her requesting an apology from Craig made me LOL. 

It says a lot about how dysfunctional Kathryn and Thomas' relationship is that they have to communicate via written letters and potentially passing information through the nanny. 

I'm with Craig and Shep on the whole Kathryn thing - I don't think it hurts anyone to sit down and listen to what Kathryn has to say. It doesn't take much to put a stop to the conversation and walk away if she's acts out or just spends the entire time complaining about Thomas and blaming all of her problems on everyone else. I don't think any of them "owe" it to Kathryn, but if she reaches out to any of them and they aren't totally against it, then they shouldn't be told not to do it. 

I was amused by Patricia explaining how to eat the curry. FYI Patricia, you don't need to put the curry on top of the rice. It can also go on the side of the rice or be served in a completely separate bowl...fascinating I know, lol.

[Nancypants]

I am with you about Landon. Woords cannot begin to describe how profoundly annoying. Landon is.

[ScoobieDoobs]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Scooby, you know I adore you BUT I think Naomie, dog face girl, is the one that is being pretty awful.  I rarely if ever comment on a Bravolebrity's looks, but Naomi with the big nose and the weird eyes, is not that good looking.  I find her very insecure and at the same time darn mean to Craig.   It is his show and all she seems to be concerned about is making time with the "cool kids".  Who does that to a betrothed?  Naomie kind of did a Heather Dubrow with the yelling comment, no dog face girl, when someone doesn't agree with you they aren't yelling.  Naomie flipped her cookies as soon as Craig talked about buying a rental property because she is so worried he will leave. 

I don't think Naomie has a role if she and Craig split the sheets.  They already have Landon.

Ah, are we seeing yet another Bravo situation where we're supposed to choose between 2 characters who are not especially likable & are both behaving badly?  I can't say I'm fond of Craig's late shtick.  That would drive me nuts in a partner, let alone a friend, co-worker or relative.  And calling Naomie "a child" in such a condescending way, when she had some legitimate gripes with him, was worth a hard kick in the nuts to me.

And yet what Naomie has been doing to Craig is pretty crappy too -- to me, far worse than anything she whines about.  I'm referring to how she so freely discusses her gripes with Craig to anyone & everyone who'll listen.  That really stinks.  If a partner did that to me, I'd be furious.  And she seemed to congratulate herself for not doing it yet again in this ep by not opening her big trap to the psychic lady.  Big freakin' deal, Naomie.  So you didn't hang Craigie out to dry for Patrish & Georgette to snicker over & Horseteeth to find something else to judge him about.  No, Naomie's behavior as a girlfriend has really sucked.  I think she's petulant, bratty, thoughtless, self-absorbed & really immature.

Honestly, I'm not thrilled by the behavior of either one of these 2 -- at least of what we're seeing this season.  But I would go with Naomie being worse.  These 2 are not a good match.  And if there was anything to be gotten out of that therapy session, it's that they don't listen to each other or communicate effectively.  Are they still together?

Idk if I'm alone here, but I'm not a big fan of Chelsea.  She seems to be stringing Austen along & I don't care for her attitude regarding him.  Seems heartless & I don't think he deserves it.  Sure, she can treat Horseteeth coldly cuz he absolutely deserves to be treated that way.  That's the way he always seems to refer to women, so who cares if a woman gives him the same bullshit he regularly dishes out?

Edited May 24, 2017 by ScoobieDoobs

[breezy424]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Thomas like many working parents has a nanny during his work hours,  There is no night time nanny and he stays with the children in the guest house as it does not have a killer staircase.  I do think Thomas is entitled to a little recreational time, I would support a single mom, without a father in the picture have a night or two out.  No one ever criticizes a parent who works and has daycare.  Someone has to pay the bills.  Thomas keeps the children in healthy activities just like millions of other single parents do every day.

It really isn't Thomas' responsibility to make concessions for Kathryn.  His duty is to his children.  These people had children together, it is not about what Kathryn wants or needs.  It is only about the children.  Their reasons for having the children are immaterial. Children should not have to wait until mom gets her shit together.   

Kathryn has availed herself to help, but she is so crazy jealous she can't see her way through to acting in the best interests of her children.  At best she and Thomas had a six month relationship.  Who fires a godparent?  Oh that would be Kathryn.  People make mistakes who they partner and parent with, Thomas has taken responsibility for the children.  Kathryn is unable to,  No one cares who was 23 and who was 51.  I am far more concerned that given any type of unsupervised visitation with her children Kathryn might so something rash-and the Court agrees with me.

Whoa.  Wait.  If TRav doesn't have a nighttime nanny, who are with the kids during the overnight hours?  If that's the case, nope, it's not ok to leave your children, especially at that young age, to be in a separate building.  Ok.  At any underage...

[mbaywife123]

Scooby, (if I may be so bold to call you that) I agree that Chelsea adds nothing and that her fake romance with Austin was added as "filler" until Bravo could start editing Kathryn (poorly I might add ) back into the show.

As far as Naomi's and Craig are concerned ( if their showmance is to be believed) once you start tearing down your significant other in public and with "friends" it is the kiss of death for the relationship.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Show me a man who doesn't make bad decisions and doesn't whine.  I am married a long time.  If I didn't tell my husband to get the condom at the moment, I would have had a baby every year instead of the three I have.  I put the blame on Katherine.  She wanted to get pregnant both times IMO.  

If Kathryn wanted to get pregnant or had ulterior motives, then there is even more onus on Thomas to wrap it up. Shep wore a condom when he slept with Kathryn.

My point was that many men don't have impulse issues, but Thomas does which is why he has two kids with Kathryn. However, his decision-making isn't so impaired that he has a guardian. He's been able to run a multi million dollar real estate development business with his impulse control issues. He's been able to be involved in politics at a really high level despite his impulse issues.

At the same time, there is a lot of evidence that human brains finally mature around age 25. Prior to that, individuals in their teens and 20s are less capable of rational thought than fully mature adults. Additionally, it appears that Kathryn has some sort of mental health concerns. So Kathryn with a not fully matured brain and a mental illness is responsible for making sure that the two of them didn't conceive?

Each and every individual is solely responsible for his or her own sexual health, including diseases, fertility, and reproduction. If Thomas was ambivalent or didn't want kids, it's his responsibility to wear a condom. Instead of pregnancy, what if Kathryn had an STD that she didn't know about, like HPV, herpes, chlamydia, or gonorrhea, and passed it on to Thomas. In a situation like that, it's Kathryn's fault that she caught it and that she didn't know she had it, but it's Thomas' responsibility if he catches it because he didn't use protection.

[babyhouseman]

Austen's story was sad. I've been to Chimney Rock park several times, and it's a beautiful area. Walking on those trails can be tricky. 

I saw a street sign that said King Street and remember that street when we were there over 20 years ago. If only I knew I was surrounded by so much Ravenal greatness at the time. lol

[sasha206]

On 5/23/2017 at 9:42 AM, imjagain said:

Kathryn met up with Jennifer and still treated her like shit. Why? Because,  Kathryn can't get over Thomas handing Jennifer a handkerchief a year ago. Bitch is crazy! 

Yep.  And she very coldly sat through Jennifer talking about her child's surgery and then in the talking heads acted as though she was using that for sympathy.

She's a very sad human.  I have not seen the slightest bit of empathy for others from her.   And as others have indicated, she doesn't seem very bothered by not seeing her kids.  The only emotion we've seen is her anger over thinking Landon is swooping in on her moneybags.  

Thomas is disgusting in a different way; he's a playboy who never grew up and now that he's getting older, his need to be the swashbuckling playboy is ever stronger.  And it's embarrassing.  But he at least does seem to have some human decency.  He's not as unpredictable and as unstable as she is.  So therefore, I can understand why Landon and Cameran are uncomfortable around Kathyrn but not Thomas.

That said, I don't believe for one minute there is ANYONE that knows of their dynamics and really wants Kathryn around them.  I don't buy that Shep and Craig's feelings about it are anything but producer driven.  Unless they are trying to bang her (and at least one already did right?), I don't see men being sympathetic to a woman unstable.

Edited May 24, 2017 by sasha206

[ScoobieDoobs]

49 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said:

Scooby, (if I may be so bold to call you that) I agree that Chelsea adds nothing and that her fake romance with Austin was added as "filler" until Bravo could start editing Kathryn (poorly I might add ) back into the show.

As far as Naomi's and Craig are concerned ( if their showmance is to be believed) once you start tearing down your significant other in public and with "friends" it is the kiss of death for the relationship.

I'll say this for Chelsea -- she got Horseteeth's serial killer hair to look at least presentable.  And Kathryn's hair looked really good in this ep.  Was that her doing?  We saw Chelsea futzing with Kathryn's hair, but was the way her hair looked in this ep cuz of Chelsea?  If so, she's a really good stylist.  But other than her hairstyling skills, she's of no interest to me.

Anyone notice how Horseteeth got a nasty dig in to Austen?  Called him a chump or something similarly nasty?  Jackass.  And then Snowflake was acting all stupid & flirty with him, clearly just for some cam time.  Ew, you suck, Snowflake.  I kinda felt bad for Austen this ep.  He told his heart-breaking story about his sister to Chelsea, and it was completely wasted on her.  The best she could muster up was blandly offering him an obviously fake-sympathetic "aw".  Shit, you suck, Chelsea.  What's worse than getting fake sympathy when you're opening up to someone about a truly painful moment in your life.  Ugh, for doing that shit, get the fuck off this show, Chelsea.

Edited May 24, 2017 by ScoobieDoobs

[zoeysmom]

3 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Whoa.  Wait.  If TRav doesn't have a nighttime nanny, who are with the kids during the overnight hours?  If that's the case, nope, it's not ok to leave your children, especially at that young age, to be in a separate building.  Ok.  At any underage...

Thomas stays with the children in the guest house at night. 

[nexxie]

On 5/22/2017 at 11:29 PM, diva2themax said:

Oh Georgette was being sarcastic thanking them lol. Her mouth was puckered up & she looked pissed.

That's how I saw it too. Good ol' Georgette is so full of herself, I probably would have cursed multiple times just to bug her!

Edited May 24, 2017 by nexxie

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

That's how I saw it too. Good ol' Georgette is so full of herself, I probably would have cursed multiple times just to bug her!

Landon could have learned a thing or two from Georgette. She is one of the most successful courtisane of the 20th century.

In addition, she ran two omportant cosmetic companies(Borghesa and La Prairie)

As far as Naomie's looks, she looks a bit like Gisele Bündchen. Far from ugly, imo.

once again, why is Thomas getting accolades for doing the bare minimum for his own children?

[Major Bigtime]

6 hours ago, breezy424 said:

If TRav doesn't have a nighttime nanny, who are with the kids during the overnight hours?  If that's the case, nope, it's not ok to leave your children, especially at that young age, to be in a separate building.  Ok.  At any underage...

He stays with his children at night. The big house is for sale so he can find a more kid-friendly home.

One thing to watch for....if Kathryn is sincere in making amends, she won't pitch a screaming fit when the person says "Thank you, I appreciate that" and then walks away. I think this Apology Tour is nothing more than trying to get back on the show full-time, and it's a mistake, in my opinion. Watch her and see how she reacts when her apologies don't accomplish that.

[LIMOM]

52 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

He stays with his children at night. The big house is for sale so he can find a more kid-friendly home.

One thing to watch for....if Kathryn is sincere in making amends, she won't pitch a screaming fit when the person says "Thank you, I appreciate that" and then walks away. I think this Apology Tour is nothing more than trying to get back on the show full-time, and it's a mistake, in my opinion. Watch her and see how she reacts when her apologies don't accomplish that.

DAng you really have a boner against Kathryn. Did she steal your lunch money or something? Lol

[Mindthinkr]

Did I hear this right? I'm sure that I heard Chelsea comment about her sexual escapades with Austin and saying something about not having an orgasm. (Conversation that took place at the trampoline place) Really? On national tv you are going to state that fact?  Lust probably took over for Austin and he might not have a clue about making sure that her needs were met as well. Also for a couple their first time copulating can be awkward and they aren't comfortable enough to state their needs and preferences so that they both can have "happy endings". That's also a good reason to not have random "hook ups". It may satisfy a carnal need but not an emotional one. 

[Major Bigtime]

No, I don't have anything against Kathryn. I feel sorry for her on the one hand, I get angry at her on the other. Angry because she has shown no desire to get sober and be with her children. It's as if she doesn't give a flip about them, she just wants to keep on partying and stay relevant on a television show.

[LIMOM]

12 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

No, I don't have anything against Kathryn. I feel sorry for her on the one hand, I get angry at her on the other. Angry because she has shown no desire to get sober and be with her children. It's as if she doesn't give a flip about them, she just wants to keep on partying and stay relevant on a television show.

She is doing the best that she knows how.

Remember, that she is an addict in the mist of a very serious addiction.

If you are close to her, try to remember her before she was really ill and/or join Anon.

It will drive you nuts otherwise. :-)

Seeing the devastation is no joke but it is bad for her too. 

[Major Bigtime]

I think you mean Al-Anon? I go to regular meetings due to a loved one's alcoholism. 

Kathryn cannot expect others to help her, she has to take that first step all by herself. I hope she does soon.

[LIMOM]

12 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

I think you mean Al-Anon? I go to regular meetings due to a loved one's alcoholism. 

Kathryn cannot expect others to help her, she has to take that first step all by herself. I hope she does soon.

Yes, al-anon.

She will seek help or will die.

I don't agree with not helping someone like Kathryn. It is more out of kindness for a fellow human being than anything else.

I also don't agree with Kathryn's sense of entitlement but she is so lost, so her expecting help is the least of her problems...

[Major Bigtime]

I've seen people help alcoholics, and when they know someone will bail them out, they keep on drinking. It's when the phone call isn't answered, the message isn't returned, that someone will seek help and stick with it.  And sadly, you're right, Kathryn will die of an overdose if she doesn't stop.

[LIMOM]

6 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

I've seen people help alcoholics, and when they know someone will bail them out, they keep on drinking. It's when the phone call isn't answered, the message isn't returned, that someone will seek help and stick with it.  And sadly, you're right, Kathryn will die of an overdose if she doesn't stop.

preaching to the choir here. ;-)

My grandfather only stopped because he had kidney cancer.

My mother finally died of breast cancer.

On the sunny side of the street, my uncle is still working his steps.

He once asked me for forgiveness for something I did not even remember.

And since we are all O\T sharing, both my grandfather and uncle were combat veterans. 

My mother as you probably could guess was a version of  Kathryn.

[slowpoked]

12 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Anyone notice how Horseteeth got a nasty dig in to Austen?  Called him a chump or something similarly nasty?  Jackass.  And then Snowflake was acting all stupid & flirty with him, clearly just for some cam time.  Ew, you suck, Snowflake.  I kinda felt bad for Austen this ep.  He told his heart-breaking story about his sister to Chelsea, and it was completely wasted on her.  The best she could muster up was blandly offering him an obviously fake-sympathetic "aw".  Shit, you suck, Chelsea.  What's worse than getting fake sympathy when you're opening up to someone about a truly painful moment in your life.  Ugh, for doing that shit, get the fuck off this show, Chelsea.

I saw someone very sympathetic to Austen's plight. It's very possible we didn't see the entire conversation, just like we didn't see the entire Indian party. She was crying while telling his story, not just a simple sad-face "aw." And I think they got connected more after knowing that Austen's sister's name is the same as her brother's. So we'll see what happens in the next episodes if this takes their relationship somewhere else.

I also think there is a delicate balance in how to handle such personal conversations knowing you're in front of the cameras. How to under-react vs. over-react. You don't want to be overly bawling to the point you look fake and you also don't want to be too detached to be called unsympathetic.

It's also a weird setting (trampoline park) to divulge such personal info. A more intimate setting would have perhaps done the trick better.

14 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

 That's the way he always seems to refer to women, so who cares if a woman gives him the same bullshit he regularly dishes out?

Shep has complained that he has been railroaded this season and that this season is frustrating to watch. This after saying during the preseason promos that he's excited for this season and it would be much better than Season 3. HA! The producers certainly did one on him. He says to wait for the reunion so he can air his side.

I wonder if, after seeing how he's portrayed this season, he's thinking of seriously leaving for good, since he has another show where he is the sole focus, and more to his, persuasion, as he says. And since he's riding solo on that show, he can act as douchey as he wants and nobody can really do anything about it since it's HIS show.

6 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Did I hear this right? I'm sure that I heard Chelsea comment about her sexual escapades with Austin and saying something about not having an orgasm. (Conversation that took place at the trampoline place) Really? On national tv you are going to state that fact?  Lust probably took over for Austin and he might not have a clue about making sure that her needs were met as well. Also for a couple their first time copulating can be awkward and they aren't comfortable enough to state their needs and preferences so that they both can have "happy endings". That's also a good reason to not have random "hook ups". It may satisfy a carnal need but not an emotional one. 

It was a weird conversation, but it was Austen who said that. Chelsea said, "it was so quick you didn't work up a sweat.." and Austen said "but at least one of us had fun..." So it was  who Austen basically said sorry, you didn't have an orgasm, but I did.

Plus Austen was the first one to bring up the sex talk by asking her if he got so sweaty during sex. For me, that was more icky than anything that followed after that. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by slowpoked

[Juliegirlj]

Austin's story of his sister falling to her death is haunting and sad. 

Something about Landon makes me think she has Asperger's syndrome. (I mean no disrespect to anyone dealing with the spectrum). 

So happy Cam is finally pregnant with a baby girl. It will be fun to see her as a Mommy. 

Whitney remains so utterly awkward. He was not meant for reality tv. 

[SunnyBeBe]

20 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

Austin's story of his sister falling to her death is haunting and sad. 

Something about Landon makes me think she has Asperger's syndrome. (I mean no disrespect to anyone dealing with the spectrum). 

So happy Cam is finally pregnant with a baby girl. It will be fun to see her as a Mommy. 

Whitney remains so utterly awkward. He was not meant for reality tv. 

Good points. I hadn't considered that, but,.......it would explain some things. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I happen to find Naomi just as attractive as most of the women on this show.  I happen to think that Kathryn is exceptionally attractive physically, but, what good does that really do, when you have such stunted personality growth and few redeeming qualities?  Naomi is not perfect in the way she allows Craig to push her buttons, but, I don't see how describing her as a four legged animal helps demonstrate her character as a person.  She appears well groomed and clean, from what I have seen and has not tried to intentionally hurt people. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[imjagain]

11 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Yep.  And she very coldly sat through Jennifer talking about her child's surgery and then in the talking heads acted as though she was using that for sympathy.

She's a very sad human.  I have not seen the slightest bit of empathy for others from her.   And as others have indicated, she doesn't seem very bothered by not seeing her kids.  The only emotion we've seen is her anger over thinking Landon is swooping in on her moneybags.  

Thomas is disgusting in a different way; he's a playboy who never grew up and now that he's getting older, his need to be the swashbuckling playboy is ever stronger.  And it's embarrassing.  But he at least does seem to have some human decency.  He's not as unpredictable and as unstable as she is.  So therefore, I can understand why Landon and Cameran are uncomfortable.

That said, I don't believe for one minute there is ANYONE that knows of their dynamics and really wants Kathryn around them.  I don't buy that Shep and Craig's feelings about it are anything but producer driven.  Unless they are trying to bang her (and at least one already did right?), I don't see men being sympathetic to a woman unstable. 

I agree with everything you said, but the part I bolded has been what I've been thinking for a while. Shep met with Katherine for yoga (producer plot). craig and Shep are so worried about Katherine being back in the fold of these people,  who never were her friends, ummm I don't think so. Craig is an odd duck and seems nosey but sorry I'm not buying that Shep cares one bit about Katherine and including her in his life.  

[ProudMary]

The best part of the episode to me was the architectural driving tour of "her city" that Thomas took with Kensie.  She may not have said much but she was definitely paying attention, appreciating the sights and enjoying being with her Daddy.  From what we viewers have been shown, she seems to be a delightful child.  I would have enjoyed about 10 minutes of just that!

[sasha206]

8 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Did I hear this right? I'm sure that I heard Chelsea comment about her sexual escapades with Austin and saying something about not having an orgasm. (Conversation that took place at the trampoline place) Really? On national tv you are going to state that fact?  Lust probably took over for Austin and he might not have a clue about making sure that her needs were met as well. Also for a couple their first time copulating can be awkward and they aren't comfortable enough to state their needs and preferences so that they both can have "happy endings". That's also a good reason to not have random "hook ups". It may satisfy a carnal need but not an emotional one. 

I'm always amazed at the need to talk about sex at all on these shows.  I suppose they feel like they have to.  The producers ask them to.  I'm not sure if I even buy they had sex.  The two of them have absolutely no spark.  And while she's attractive, to me, she looks like she's closer to 40 and he looks closer to 21.  It just doesn't feel like a match.

And of course for all this talk about Southern Belles, and such, this doesn't really seem like something a belle would do -- fuck & tell.

Edited May 24, 2017 by sasha206

[sasha206]

6 hours ago, LIMOM said:

DAng you really have a boner against Kathryn. Did she steal your lunch money or something? Lol

I can't speak for the person you quoted, but I'm having a hard time seeing why she's worthy of any sympathy.   I feel bad for anyone who is an addict, but there have been many people that pick themselves up and do what's right instead of worrying who their baby daddy is fucking, a potential modeling career and camera time.  I also feel like her addiction is more to be famous and find a sugar daddy.  Too bad she wasn't addicted to being a a great mom to her toddlers.  Or having an ounce of empathy for fellow humans who do care very much about their children -- like Jennifer -- instead of holding a grudge for accepting a tissue from her baby daddy.

She's a nasty piece of work.  Sometimes addicts are nasty pieces of work.  Sometimes they are so self-involved and toxic to be around they exhaust all of their chances for sympathy.  I still root for her to conquer her demons.  And I'm sure Thomas really fucked with her head too, so for that I have some sympathy.

Edited May 24, 2017 by sasha206

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

On Southern Charm, It's A Hot Night Of Cultural Appropriation And Swearing At Patricia's

Don't worry, everyone's still having the same argument they've been having for three seasons.

[robroy]

15 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

So the psychic was right about Cam and to an extent, Craig. He passed the bar but he'll need some time before starting up his own firm. I do wish him a lot of success though - the idea that he wants to make a lot of money so that he can invest back into his community and to charities that he believes in is an admirable reason to strive for monetary success. 

 

I don't think Craig really acts out of some grand compassion as much as it throwing charity work or community involvement out seems to exempt one from having to measure what they are accomplishing in their career. You can hold down a job- or have a decent work ethic- and still be charitable. For some reason Craig just triggers my BS meter.

That said- I am starting to sway to the opinion that Naomi is equally useless. Where is she earning her MBA anyway?

I think they are in a mutually beneficial relationship- she gets to fame whore, he gets access to her cars/housing to further his fame whoring. And I find them equal levels of attractive- young, thin and well groomed but not horribly pretty.  

[Giselle]

On 5/23/2017 at 10:10 AM, LIMOM said:

So borderline personality disorder is the new bipolar?

Amazing how every so often an ailment becomes the disorder du jour.

I just stick with bat shit crazy. That diagnosis covers everything that might come up. I'll add drunk assed or druggy to cover those specific behaviors.

[robroy]

15 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I'm with Craig and Shep on the whole Kathryn thing - I don't think it hurts anyone to sit down and listen to what Kathryn has to say. It doesn't take much to put a stop to the conversation and walk away if she's acts out or just spends the entire time complaining about Thomas and blaming all of her problems on everyone else. I don't think any of them "owe" it to Kathryn, but if she reaches out to any of them and they aren't totally against it, then they shouldn't be told not to do it. .

On this point I have to agree with you but I also understand that many people have a difficult time disengaging. And addicts and sociopaths seem to be particularly adept at roping people in, creating an incident and then turning any event into an on-going situation that needs continued attention. I think Cam can come across slightly pretentious at times but I suspect she is as frustrated that her peer group is filled with true rubes as she is with Kathryn's games.

[Giselle]

On 5/23/2017 at 7:46 AM, seasquared said:

I just realized that she ALWAYS has on opera gloves. Is it possible that she's really a he and she wears the gloves to mask her "man hands?"

It hides the garrote she's going to use on Patricia.

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

She's a nasty piece of work.  Sometimes addicts are nasty pieces of work.  Sometimes they are so self-involved and toxic to be around they exhaust all of their chances for sympathy.  I still root for her to conquer her demons.  And I'm sure Thomas really fucked with her head too, so for that I have some sympathy.

This sums up my feelings toward Kathryn as well. While disliking her behavior and feeling very sad for her children, I understand that there is a root cause somewhere that has brought out that behavior. She needs to discover it and work on truly healing, which she is not doing while trying to be a star of this show, model [sigh], and possibly wife of Thomas Ravenel (yes, I think she may be that deluded about their eventual chances of reconciliation), a 54-year-old man who has plenty of issues on his own.

For a person who has put herself so in the public eye, craving fame, there is little about her history to be found. Well, at least there was a couple of years ago when I was curious. She seems to have left college a semester or two short of graduation. I think she was majoring in Political History and she served as a page in the South Carolina State Senate. I recall Thomas mentioning she had the nickname "Senate Barbie".) Was she looking for a rich, young politically connected guy? Where's the info on what she was like during that time? Why did she drop out of college? I wonder because sometimes mental health issues begin to show up in one's late teens and early 20s. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by RedHawk

[HunterHunted]

5 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

This sums up my feelings toward Kathryn as well. While disliking her behavior and feeling very sad for her children, I understand that there is a root cause somewhere that has brought out that behavior. She needs to discover it and work on truly healing, which she is not doing while trying to be a star of this show, model [sigh], and possibly wife of Thomas Ravenel (yes, I think she may be that deluded about their eventual chances of reconciliation), a 54-year-old man who has plenty of issues on his own.

For a person who has put herself so in the public eye, craving fame, there is little about her history to be found. Well, at least there was a couple of years ago when I was curious. She seems to have left college a semester or two short of graduation, but after an internship at the South Carolina State Senate. I recall Thomas mentioning she had the nickname "Senate Barbie".) Where's the info on what she was like during that time? Why did she drop out of college? I wonder because sometimes mental health issues begin to show up in one's late teens and early 20s. 

Kathryn back in the day:

https://www.fitsnews.com/2012/05/30/thad-loves-kathryn/

https://www.fitsnews.com/2012/06/06/sc-diva-arrested/

[RedHawk]

Thanks for those links. I know Fits News is usually a good source for all things Kathryn. And I realized that this stuff should probably go in the thread that discusses her and Thomas.

[corter20]

16 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Thomas like many working parents has a nanny during his work hours,  There is no night time nanny and he stays with the children in the guest house as it does not have a killer staircase.  I do think Thomas is entitled to a little recreational time, I would support a single mom, without a father in the picture have a night or two out.  No one ever criticizes a parent who works and has daycare.  Someone has to pay the bills.  Thomas keeps the children in healthy activities just like millions of other single parents do every day.

It really isn't Thomas' responsibility to make concessions for Kathryn.  His duty is to his children.  These people had children together, it is not about what Kathryn wants or needs.  It is only about the children.  Their reasons for having the children are immaterial. Children should not have to wait until mom gets her shit together.   

Kathryn has availed herself to help, but she is so crazy jealous she can't see her way through to acting in the best interests of her children.  At best she and Thomas had a six month relationship.  Who fires a godparent?  Oh that would be Kathryn.  People make mistakes who they partner and parent with, Thomas has taken responsibility for the children.  Kathryn is unable to,  No one cares who was 23 and who was 51.  I am far more concerned that given any type of unsupervised visitation with her children Kathryn might so something rash-and the Court agrees with me.

There is no possible way he doesn't have some sort of night nanny as much as he goes out or as much as he drunk posts in the middle of the night. I also support single parents going out whenever it is suitable, but I do not support bringing home 20 year old college students in the middle of the night when it was court ordered that they weren't allowed to have other people over when the children were in their custody. I, in no way, believe that Kathryn should have custody of those children, nor do I believe she should have visitation. It is very clear that she is mentally unstable and those children don't need to be around that. 

My post is about seeing past her behavior and realizing that there is something mentally and biologically wrong with her. Sure, Thomas has no responsibility to her right now, but I 100% believe he played a role in her downfall. He could completely leave her alone right now and that would be great. I think that would actually be best. Someone, anyone, has to get her help though. She has reality confused with what is going on in her head (and multiple cast members have said this) and she needs serious psychiatric help. When you are so far gone, you can't separate reality from crazy and I believe she is there. She needs someone to realize that this not just a drug/alcohol issues. For drug addicts and alcoholics, they can make the choice to turn their life around. When you have a personality disorder, it doesn't happen like that and especially if it isn't treated or it is masked by alcohol and drugs. Her parents really need to step up more than anything and seek medical help for her. 

[lunastartron]

On May 23, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Luckylondon said:

No. However, the behavior of someone with this personality, this often is the result. Typically, people become disorganized, frustrated, and annoyed with others who don't agree on how to respond to the personality disordered persons behaviors-- especially if they don't understand this is a personality disorder. That disorganization that can disrupt a room of people or a treatment team meeting of doctors on how to best handle or respond to their behaviors because many  get very triggered by what they feel is manipulative, horrible avoidable behavior that should not be rewarded with attention and others who see the self destructive-Ness as a reaction to wounds and pain that their fragile sense of self cannot sustain and that it is a symptom created by the internal emotional storm that drives the behavior and that needs to have a very specific standardized response. That disorganization felt inside the person, yes, it can affect how others feel about the person, and they feel disorganized and frustrated and upset and don't like it. They either want to help or run away, which is exactly how Kathryn presents when distressed. The "I hate you! Wait don't leave me!" dichotomy.  So no, Katheryn is not an all powerful guru; however, anyone deeply involved with a person with this disorder may have witnessed how just discussing them and how to respond to them can whip a family system or a group (like this dysfunctional group) in to hysterics very quickly and like no other. Because the behavior is baffling and frustrating, manipulative and terribly self-destructive, and completely exhausting; yet it is often coming from a place of complete internal disorganization. So for those who are unaware of how to deal with this disorder, some will have empathy for the pain that they see and others feel that the person is very aware of their behavior and it is manipulative and intentional and this can cause disagreement at in how to deal with the person, just as it did last night.

 

Thank you for the clarification and this insightful reply. I clipped only due to length but it gave me a lot to think about and I largely agree with many/most of your points.

Edited May 24, 2017 by lunastartron

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, robroy said:

I don't think Craig really acts out of some grand compassion as much as it throwing charity work or community involvement out seems to exempt one from having to measure what they are accomplishing in their career. You can hold down a job- or have a decent work ethic- and still be charitable. For some reason Craig just triggers my BS meter.

That said- I am starting to sway to the opinion that Naomi is equally useless. Where is she earning her MBA anyway?

I think they are in a mutually beneficial relationship- she gets to fame whore, he gets access to her cars/housing to further his fame whoring. And I find them equal levels of attractive- young, thin and well groomed but not horribly pretty.  

I definitely agree, you don't need to be rich to be philanthropic. I certainly don't think he wants to be rich so that he can give all his money away. If he strikes it rich, he's going to be living in a big house, driving a fancy car and enjoying the finer things in life I'm sure. I just think it's refreshing that he's attached success and money to something other than status. Maybe he's bullshitting but I guess he's kind of covered his ass well on this point because you can't know for sure unless he does become rich...then again, I guess we would have to know what he even considers to be 'well off'.

[Major Bigtime]

Quote

I do not support bringing home 20 year old college students in the middle of the night

He doesn't do that, but the show loves to lead people to believe it's true.

The reason I don't buy the Shep/Craig storyline of being supportive to Kathryn is because neither of them want anything to do with her since the season wrapped filming.