Season 19 Live Feed Discussion

[Growsonwalls]

Josh Martinez interview:

Quote

Why do you think Cody won "America's Favorite Houseguest"?

Because he had the whole house against him ,and the strength him and Jessica had. And everybody likes a good showmance. Props to them. He earned it. Good for him!

This right there is why Josh won over Paul. Because Josh was able to see the other side, even if he was banging pots and pans at them. Paul Manson was excellent at picking minions -- Xmas, Alex, Raven, Matt can probably go their whole lives without being able to see anything from another person's perspective. Paul's big mistake was getting impressed at the loudness and bluster of Josh and thinking he was made of the same stuff as Xmas/Alex/Raven/Matt.

[Lady Calypso]

Look! My second favourite Big Brother Over The Top player with my second favourite Big Brother 19 player!

He really, really has a great smile. I'll be honest; I thought he wouldn't be as good with interviews when he was doing his pre-interviews. He was stone cold and awkward with Jeff, he was slightly better with Ika, but he just wasn't connecting with either of his interviewers. Then he got into the house, I saw more of him, and thought that he'd just sit back and say nothing when he got out. But man, his post interviews, starting with his two exit interviews and now after the show, he's really, really good. If he connects with an interview, he's really good. If he doesn't, then he sticks to one word answers. 

[Insensible Bob]

Never in my Big Brother watching history have I watched the "Winner Revealed" clip so many times.

[Wings]

Trans comments by both Cody and Jason and their reactions now out in RL.  

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/big-brother-19-cody-unapologetic-about-anti-trans?utm_term=.exKBDxX6Ll#.umNDk0E6QG

[Michichick]

12 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Trans comments by both Cody and Jason and their reactions now out in RL.  

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/big-brother-19-cody-unapologetic-about-anti-trans?utm_term=.exKBDxX6Ll#.umNDk0E6QG

Well, Cody certainly sounds like a bigoted asshole. Jason comes off a little better.

[Wings]

8 minutes ago, Michichick said:

Well, Cody certainly sounds like a bigoted asshole. Jason comes off a little better.

I am not surprised.  Many pages ago I opined that Jessica would not be able to open Cody's eyes to his bigotry.   I still don't think she will.  I don't see them making the long haul even though Jess is hinting for ring from him already!  She is heavily into the fantasy of who she thinks Cody is.  Love has blinded her to what we see.  

Jason is a good guy who is ignorant on many things, but his eyes are opening already.  I like him. 

Paul had a gathering last night.  Got this pic from FB.  

  

Edited September 23, 2017 by wings707

[Wings]

Another gathering.  Looks like all is well between these families.  

[Wings]

I love this couple and I expect to see them go the distance.

http://www.etonline.com/exclusive-big-brother-couple-mark-and-elena-plan-turn-showmance-real-life-romance-dallas-87827

[RandomWatcher]

Per Twitter, Groundhog Day is telling people if they want her autograph they should contact her publicist. 

[Wings]

Just now, RandomWatcher said:

Per Twitter, Groundhog Day is telling people if they want her autograph they should contact her publicist. 

Good god.  Apparently she has not gotten the scoop on her popularity, yet. 

[Callaphera]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Good god.  Apparently she has not gotten the scoop on her popularity, yet. 

Oh, no doubt she has. But she also has her biggest, bestest fans surrounding her like a group of sycophants and telling her how amazingly bad-ass!!!1 she is, so don't worry about the haters. Because anyone who hates towards her is just jealous. And remember, according to Christmas, despite the fact that she was on a show that has a fucking 24/7 live feed advertised at every commercial break, we never saw the whole story in regards to the fights, how they started, and the awful awful way Cody treated them all. 

 

2 hours ago, Michichick said:

Well, Cody certainly sounds like a bigoted asshole. Jason comes off a little better.

Yup. 

Another way to look at it is that Cody - for all his faults - is standing true to what he believes even if it offends people while Jason isn't learning anything but the right words to get him out of the situation and make him look good. It's almost cut and paste from his rape comments apologies. Shouldn't have said it, learning from my mistakes, taught me a lesson... blah blah blah. 

I think I'm just so anti-Jason and have been for so long (the DUI comments, y'all. It's like everyone forgot that he was bragging about drinking and driving) that he could tell me the grass was green (for... eh, you know how it goes by now) and I'd still call him a lying asshole.

 

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Josh Martinez interview:

This right there is why Josh won over Paul. Because Josh was able to see the other side, even if he was banging pots and pans at them. Paul Manson was excellent at picking minions -- Xmas, Alex, Raven, Matt can probably go their whole lives without being able to see anything from another person's perspective. Paul's big mistake was getting impressed at the loudness and bluster of Josh and thinking he was made of the same stuff as Xmas/Alex/Raven/Matt.

I really wasn't the biggest Josh fan in the beginning but I've come around on him. He's young and he's immature but he is growing and learning and he's one of the very few if not the only that managed to look at his own actions while still in the house and realize that he may not have been in the right. So props to him. It may be a shitty way to "grow up" with all of us watching and dissecting his every move but at least he is "growing up". 

Sad to think that he and Paul are around the same age but I have better hopes for Josh than for Paul. 

[NeverLate]

4 hours ago, wings707 said:

I am not surprised.  Many pages ago I opined that Jessica would not be able to open Cody's eyes to his bigotry.   I still don't think she will.  I don't see them making the long haul even though Jess is hinting for ring from him already!  She is heavily into the fantasy of who she thinks Cody is.  Love has blinded her to what we see.  

Jason is a good guy who is ignorant on many things, but his eyes are opening already.  I like him. 

Paul had a gathering last night.  Got this pic from FB.  

  

How boring would this lot be. Maven? zzz let's hope cereal was on the menu.

[backformore]

Who in their right mind would WANT to go to a party where Raven and Matt were attending?  

Paul and Bitchmas  are insufferable assholes, sure, but they might be interesting for a few minutes. 

But Raven and Matt are so fuckin' STUPID!  

[RandomWatcher]

Seems that Mark, and likely Cody too, are complete newbs when it comes to social media. Seems as though Elena and Jessica are having to teach them how to use Instagram and such.

[Wings]

41 minutes ago, Hello Lady said:

How boring would this lot be. Maven? zzz let's hope cereal was on the menu.

Paul, Yule and Kevin hated Matt and Raven.  Mr Friendship didn't make any this season.  Kevin, but that won't go anywhere.  And when he gets home his daughters will fill him, if they haven't already.  There is a pic on FB, I could not bring over, of Kevin, Debbie (wife), 5 daughters and his son. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by wings707

[PhoneCop]

5 hours ago, wings707 said:

I am not surprised.  Many pages ago I opined that Jessica would not be able to open Cody's eyes to his bigotry.   I still don't think she will.  I don't see them making the long haul even though Jess is hinting for ring from him already!  She is heavily into the fantasy of who she thinks Cody is.  Love has blinded her to what we see.  

Jason is a good guy who is ignorant on many things, but his eyes are opening already.  I like him. 

Paul had a gathering last night.  Got this pic from FB.  

  

Bleh. Bleh bleh bleh. What a giant black hole of delusion and self-importance. And Matt.

[PaperTree]

3 hours ago, RandomWatcher said:

Per Twitter, Groundhog Day is telling people if they want her autograph they should contact her publicist. 

The only autograph I want from International Rabbit Day is on the bottom of a check.  (Size doesn't matter.)

I still find it hilarious that her honesty about not taking Josh to F2, then throwing a pity party for him to take Paul cost her $50K.

[green]

5 hours ago, Michichick said:

Well, Cody certainly sounds like a bigoted asshole. Jason comes off a little better.

One a asshole always an asshole.  I wonder how the transgender community reacted to Cody being voted America's Favorite.  They could care less about some "showing Paul" message.  This sends a horrible message to them!

2 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Oh, no doubt she has. But she also has her biggest, bestest fans surrounding her like a group of sycophants and telling her how amazingly bad-ass!!!1 she is, so don't worry about the haters. Because anyone who hates towards her is just jealous. And remember, according to Christmas, despite the fact that she was on a show that has a fucking 24/7 live feed advertised at every commercial break, we never saw the whole story in regards to the fights, how they started, and the awful awful way Cody treated them all. 

Yup. 

Another way to look at it is that Cody - for all his faults - is standing true to what he believes even if it offends people while Jason isn't learning anything but the right words to get him out of the situation and make him look good. It's almost cut and paste from his rape comments apologies. Shouldn't have said it, learning from my mistakes, taught me a lesson... blah blah blah. 

I think I'm just so anti-Jason and have been for so long (the DUI comments, y'all. It's like everyone forgot that he was bragging about drinking and driving) that he could tell me the grass was green (for... eh, you know how it goes by now) and I'd still call him a lying asshole.

 

I really wasn't the biggest Josh fan in the beginning but I've come around on him. He's young and he's immature but he is growing and learning and he's one of the very few if not the only that managed to look at his own actions while still in the house and realize that he may not have been in the right. So props to him. It may be a shitty way to "grow up" with all of us watching and dissecting his every move but at least he is "growing up". 

Sad to think that he and Paul are around the same age but I have better hopes for Josh than for Paul. 

So standing true to bigotry is a good thing?  Should we erect a statue to David Duke for his standing true?  No.  Bigotry is wrong.  Standing true to bigotry is even more wrong.

[Gemma Violet]

Quote

 

I think Paul started to walk out the door with Josh but he was asked to stay behind.  They wanted ONLY the winner of BB19 to enter to all the shouts, clapping and glitter. 

Paul was the loser and not entitled to all the hoopla that belonged to ONLY Josh!

 

He wasn't asked to stay behind.  Julie asked them both to come out.

[peachmangosteen]

For anyone who wants a good laugh, here's an excerpt from Paul's THR interview:

Quote

THR: You had a huge following last season. Do you think you have that same support?
Paul: I was painted as the villain.
THR: Painted as the villain, or were you the villain? 
Paul: I wasn’t the villain. I just came back to play a game. I don’t know what you guys expected me to do. Did you want me to come back as the only vet and just hold hands with everybody? In order to beat them, I had to beat them. I came here to play a game. My fans would be more upset with me if I threw away my game than play the way I did. To all the alumni talking shit, I highly suggest you go on a season being the only vet. I’m pretty sure almost all of you who are talking shit have never made it to the final two. Check the stats, bro! (Laughs.) I don’t know why they don’t like me, but I don’t really care.

And another one in the "Christmas is a real bitch" file:

[Callaphera]

40 minutes ago, green said:

So standing true to bigotry is a good thing?  Should we erect a statue to David Duke for his standing true?  No.  Bigotry is wrong.  Standing true to bigotry is even more wrong.

Nope, not at all. I knew it would be taken that way, which meant I didn't explain my point the way I wanted to.

What I mean is that Cody is staying true to what he said. No apologies, no excuses. His ass-y bigoted comments are his ass-y bigoted comments. He's owning them. At least you know what you're getting from him. We don't have to like it, we don't have to agree with it, we don't have to just take it quietly but he's not changing his story to pander to people or make himself look better. Cody doesn't give a flying fuck and no one will ever be able to change his mind. I don't think he'll ever learn or understand because he believes what he wants to believe and that's the end of it. Which okay. Some people can't be redeemed and should be held up as an example for how not to be. 

Jason, on the other hand, feels like he's saying what he has to to stop the shitshow of comments about his behaviour. If he has actual regret and bad feelings about what he said, I would be shocked. Oh, he probably regrets making people react the way they did to him but he doesn't regret the actual comments because he probably doesn't see why they're wrong. Just that people are mad, I must apologize in the most PC friendly way possible (with the help of a publicist), and it's all well and fine in Jason's world. 

Neither of them are going to learn but again, at least you know what you're getting with Cody. He's never going to hide his bigotry. He's not going to pretend that he understands but continue the behaviour. The asshole is going to look like an asshole. Jason will. That asshole will make himself look like a good guy but still be the asshole in private and underneath and it'll keep leaking out. I'm not saying it's not wrong. Bigotry is wrong and the more conversations on the subject, the better. I'm saying it's honest. I don't respect either of them or their views. But I can appreciate Cody's honesty without having to respect him. 

ETA: As an aside, I have to admit, you've been one of my favourite debating partners this season because I've learned a lot from it, about myself and about current issues which I may not follow as closely. So in all honesty, thank you. I'm still new to this, I'm still learning, I'm not perfect, but you make me think. Much respect to you. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Callaphera

[Ananayel]

I don't necessarily think Cody is incapable of change, but I do think it won't be a bunch of people telling him he's wrong and needs to believe the opposite that makes it happen. It will be meeting people who live in worlds vastly different from his, hearing their stories and struggles, and realizing that perhaps he's had some of the same stories and struggles that will chip slowly away at his viewpoint, but if it happens it will happen more organically. Jessica will probably help, and his daughter growing up in a moderately more inclusive society will probably also help. It's a human reaction to dig in your heels and double down when a bunch of people start telling you you've been wrong your entire life. Even Darth Cheney backed off when his daughter came out. If Klan members can see the light and become civil rights activists, anything can happen.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

For anyone who wants a good laugh, here's an excerpt from Paul's THR interview:

And another one in the "Christmas is a real bitch" file:

I'm going to give International Pets Day the benefit of the doubt for a moment. This is ONLY Jackie's reading of the situation, not necessarily what is true. For all we know, April Fools Day couldn't hear what she was saying, as they were in a crowded party setting from what I gather, and her look could have been easily misinterpreted by Jackie. It depends if Jackie just came up and reached in to hug her, or if they exchanged some words beforehand. I know Jackie said that Josh had told her who she was right before this, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Xmas was actually being a bitch to Jackie. I say this knowing that I come across differently with people because I'm very introverted and suck at small talk, but it makes me look cold, distant, and quite frankly, a bitch. 

I know Flag Day is a lot of things and it wouldn't be hard to buy this statement from Jackie, but it is only in Jackie's perspective. I don't like Xmas anymore, but I also have tried to give her more of the benefit of the doubt, as I did with half these houseguests (Josh, for example, Cody, Jess, Elena, Raven, Jason, Kevin, etc). 

Paul's interviews, on the other hand? Now that guy is actually proving himself to be a self righteous asshole with a major ego problem which refrains him from accepting what is true and being able to be humble and courteous. No, that guy's words speak a whole lot into who he is as a person. 

[Dewey Decimate]

19 hours ago, backformore said:

so - the orthopedic doctor told me this week I have Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome. also known as runner's knee, chondromalacia patella, and , yeah, "rough kneecap" .

Exercise, physical therapy, anti-inflammatory meds.  Surgery is rarely indicated, unless you can hardly walk. 

It's the only thing I have in common with Raven.   Except for that Mensa thing, of course! 

This is hilarious, because a couple months ago my physical therapist told me I have the same thing (had to look up that spelling!) but never even thought of it as RKS. I guess we need to pick a color and get some scauses - 'cuz cornflower blue's for chondromalacia patella, y'all!

I've watched the good bits of the finale about five times now, and whoever above referred to it as Zaprudering hit the nail on the head. For example, if you watch Paul's neck, just under the fugly beard and cheesy necklace, as Jason is asking his jury question, you can seriously see his pulse rise in fear and panic. Can I marry this finale?

[MrHufflepuff]

Re: Cody...

Cody has been in the military.  The military recruits from across pretty much every American class, geographic area, socio-economic group, etc.  Which means that Cody's been exposed to people from all walks of American life.  He's gone overseas, and I'm sure it was stressful and probably very disturbing at times, but he's been exposed to foreign cultures as well.  And now he's spent time trapped in a house with a pretty diverse group of people.   And granted, a lot of them were assholes too.  But Cody has had more exposure to people outside his bubble than the vast majority of people on this planet will ever get.  And he's still a bigoted asshole.  Maybe Jessica will change him (twu wuv does many things!), but if after all this exposure he's still a bigoted scumbag, I don't really see him changing in the future.

Edited September 24, 2017 by MrHufflepuff

[UniqBlue69]

12 minutes ago, MrHufflepuff said:

 But Cody has had more exposure to people outside his bubble than the vast majority of people on this planet will ever get.  And he's still a bigoted asshole.  Maybe Jessica will change him (twu wuv does many things!), but if after all this exposure he's still a bigoted scumbag, I don't really see him changing in the future.

Yup.. and I'm sorry but I have to laugh at the notion that Cody is going to become enlightened under Jessica's guidance. The girl who called women of color by the name of past contestants who shared their same race tells me she has her own implicit biases she needs to address and work on.

[BK1978]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Look! My second favourite Big Brother Over The Top player with my second favourite Big Brother 19 player!

 

He really, really has a great smile. I'll be honest; I thought he wouldn't be as good with interviews when he was doing his pre-interviews. He was stone cold and awkward with Jeff, he was slightly better with Ika, but he just wasn't connecting with either of his interviewers. Then he got into the house, I saw more of him, and thought that he'd just sit back and say nothing when he got out. But man, his post interviews, starting with his two exit interviews and now after the show, he's really, really good. If he connects with an interview, he's really good. If he doesn't, then he sticks to one word answers. 

Kind of a random comment, but I never watched OTT.  I have to say in watching the backyard interviews I found Morgan to be a very pretty and charming woman.  I can totally see why America voted for her to win.

[NeverLate]

9 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

For anyone who wants a good laugh, here's an excerpt from Paul's THR interview:

And another one in the "Christmas is a real bitch" file:

Christmas is a legend in her own mind. Full stop! 

6 hours ago, UniqBlue69 said:

Yup.. and I'm sorry but I have to laugh at the notion that Cody is going to become enlightened under Jessica's guidance. The girl who called women of color by the name of past contestants who shared their same race tells me she has her own implicit biases she needs to address and work on.

They all said awful things, not only Jess and Cody! Does it make it right? Hell no, but when they all say something horrible( raping wives etc) I'd say no one person is better than the other .jmho..

[MrHufflepuff]

12 minutes ago, Hello Lady said:

They all said awful things, not only Jess and Cody! Does it make it right? Hell no, but when they all say something horrible( raping wives etc) I'd say no one person is better than the other .jmho..

There's been plenty of posts in this thread calling the other houseguests assholes, so your jmho is already shared by most of the people in this thread.  I can't really think of anyone in this thread who's claimed that only Cody or Jess said awful things, nor can I think of anyone in this thread who thinks that Jason's comments were all right.  Are you thinking of a specific post in this thread?

Edited September 24, 2017 by MrHufflepuff

[lunastartron]

9 hours ago, MrHufflepuff said:

Re: Cody...

Cody has been in the military.  The military recruits from across pretty much every American class, geographic area, socio-economic group, etc.  Which means that Cody's been exposed to people from all walks of American life.  He's gone overseas, and I'm sure it was stressful and probably very disturbing at times, but he's been exposed to foreign cultures as well.  And now he's spent time trapped in a house with a pretty diverse group of people.   And granted, a lot of them were assholes too.  But Cody has had more exposure to people outside his bubble than the vast majority of people on this planet will ever get.  And he's still a bigoted asshole.  Maybe Jessica will change him (twu wuv does many things!), but if after all this exposure he's still a bigoted scumbag, I don't really see him changing in the future.

I think history belies this as much as supports it. People change and evolve all the time over time. Positions that were considered progressive (and thus far from bigoted) on certain issues twenty years ago are night-and-day different from progressive positions on those same issues today i.e. DOMA originally being construed as something of a liberal win to prevailing sentiments about same-sex marriage today or ascendant positions on same-sex marriage from 2004-2008 vs 2012 - present. 

And the military isn't conventionally celebrated as a standard-bearer for "diversity is our strength" ethos, particularly when it comes to LGBTQ individuals. DADT was repealed very recently in the scheme of entrenched attitudes, the values that have become institutionalized and internalized, etc. I don't think the marriage of white male machismo and the military is a myth that materialized out of thin air and I don't think a handful of years necessarily erases all that contributed to it. 

That being said, I think Cody's biggest obstacle in surmounting his prejudice is that he probably views the topic (from my perspective) more through the lens of "this is just political correctness policing and I'm not going to submit to that or be told what to do" than "I have deep animus toward trans people." He can't see it from a view other than his own because he's a stereotypically attractive cis white male and has never had to. 

9 hours ago, UniqBlue69 said:

Yup.. and I'm sorry but I have to laugh at the notion that Cody is going to become enlightened under Jessica's guidance. The girl who called women of color by the name of past contestants who shared their same race tells me she has her own implicit biases she needs to address and work on.

As someone who found Jessica actually more problematic than Cody because she would instigate and do some of this shet face to face and/or within earshot of those in her physical proximity, casual racism doesn't necessarily mean anything with respect to sentiments on LGBTQ matters.

She shut Cody down immediately and forcefully (or at least tried to) when he started making the "tranny" comments and her response in the post-season interviews was pretty cognizant about how she herself still has work to do. 

She can display problematic attitudes toward people of different ethnicities and still be a gold-star student in the abstract on trans sensitivity. 

11 hours ago, Ananayel said:

I don't necessarily think Cody is incapable of change, but I do think it won't be a bunch of people telling him he's wrong and needs to believe the opposite that makes it happen. It will be meeting people who live in worlds vastly different from his, hearing their stories and struggles, and realizing that perhaps he's had some of the same stories and struggles that will chip slowly away at his viewpoint, but if it happens it will happen more organically. Jessica will probably help, and his daughter growing up in a moderately more inclusive society will probably also help. It's a human reaction to dig in your heels and double down when a bunch of people start telling you you've been wrong your entire life. Even Darth Cheney backed off when his daughter came out. If Klan members can see the light and become civil rights activists, anything can happen.

What makes me hopeful about Cody is that - unlike everyone else save Mark or Elena - he never set out to antagonize, belittle, or demean those around him. Even when they were actively attacking and sadistically attacking him based upon profoundly personal stuff, he just went and peacefully read his Bible. 

I think his greatest strength in terms of the house (his ability to disengage from conflict like a well adjusted adult meant he never initiated cruelty with anyone), though, is likely a hurdle in terms of broadening any ideological views (his ability to disengage from conflict means he would likely just check out of a political debate). 

[MrHufflepuff]

1 hour ago, lunastartron said:

I think history belies this as much as supports it. People change and evolve all the time over time. Positions that were considered progressive (and thus far from bigoted) on certain issues twenty years ago are night-and-day different from progressive positions on those same issues today i.e. DOMA originally being construed as something of a liberal win to prevailing sentiments about same-sex marriage today or ascendant positions on same-sex marriage from 2004-2008 vs 2012 - present. 

I don't really recall DOMA as being thought of as a liberal win.  I remember it being thought of as the lesser of two evils (the alternative being an anti-gay Constitutional amendment).    DOMA was passed in the midst of a conservative backlash to a progressive movement to equalize rights for homosexuals.  I don't really agree with this historical interpretation.

And I think there's also a marked difference between the sentiments Cody is expressing here and the position of the main part of the Democratic party for the last few decades.  Cody is outright calling trans people mentally ill, which isn't a position that the Democratic party held about homosexuals 20 or even 30 years ago.  Well, of course, the Democratic party, being a coalition, had people in it who thought that, but that wasn't the mainstream political position of the party -- remember, Clinton tried to drop the ban on gays in the military.  Sure, Obama came into office not supporting gay marriage, but he wasn't calling gay people mentally ill either.  I don't think this comparison is apt.

Cody was born long after the American Psychiatric Association stopped classifying homosexuality as a mental illness.  His entire life has been during a period of gradual expansion and equalization of rights of gay people.  And the arguments (whether political or philosophical or medical or ethical) used in favor of that expansion have a lot of cross-over with ones that apply to the trans community.   He's had ample opportunity to understand those arguments, and he's still saying stupid stuff.

 I hope he does change, just like I hope every bigot changes.  I'm just not going to hold my breath waiting around for him.

Edited September 24, 2017 by MrHufflepuff

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm going to give International Pets Day the benefit of the doubt for a moment.

I'm not. She's heinous. She's proven that time and time again! 

I do love when someone I pre-show hate that everyone else pre-show loves turns out to suck. It makes me happy lol. I'm petty like that.

Edited September 24, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[MrHufflepuff]

8 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm not. She's heinous. She's proven that time and time again! 

I do love when someone I pre-show hate that everyone else pre-show loves turns out to suck. It makes me happy lol. I'm petty like that.

I'm picturing that Christopher Walken / SNL parody of Dead Zone, but instead of predicting mundane, everyday things, he predicts BB things.

[Sandycat]

I just watched parts of the finale again and at the reading of the votes when it got down to Cody’s vote I just realized Josh was saying to Paul “you won, you won.” I didn’t hear that before and it makes Josh’s surprise and joy all he more satisfying. 

Also, my favorite part of the jury roundtable was when Raven said she had eight surgeries Cody deadpanned “oh my God”

Edited September 24, 2017 by Sandycat

[Jillibean]

Quote

That being said, I think Cody's biggest obstacle in surmounting his prejudice is that he probably views the topic (from my perspective) more through the lens of "this is just political correctness policing and I'm not going to submit to that or be told what to do" than "I have deep animus toward trans people." He can't see it from a view other than his own because he's a stereotypically attractive cis white male and has never had to. 

I agree--Cody doesn't really show many indications of wanting to grow or learn in any way, and openness to new experiences and ideas is clearly not something he values at this point in his life. Jason might just be giving the "right answers", but I truly believe if he realized he'd hurt someone, he would want to try to fix that. Cody I think would just shrug it off and figure it was that person's problem for being hurt rather than his problem for doing the hurting. It's clearly a mindset that has gotten him this far in life, which is why it might be a bit hard to chip away at it now. 

Unfortunately, while I think he probably has a good heart, he is very, very sure that he knows best about most situations and has no interest in being open to other perspectives. He would rather be certain and wrong than look unsure and have a chance of being right.

While the military itself is very diverse and there are a wide variety of individual experiences, iI wouldn't say it's known as a place where you would go and learn different views from your own. Some branches of the military can actually be quite hyper-masculinized and de-individuated. Again, not saying there aren't still opportunities to learn about different lifestyles, but I  also think it depends (as it does anywhere else) on your willingness to seek out those opportunities or to be open to them when they present themselves. At any rate, I wouldn't look at someone and say, "Well, if he was in the military and didn't learn about trans people/gay people/women's rights/racial minorities, he's just hopeless." Regardless of the diversity that might exist, those values are not necessarily universally highlighted or celebrated in that kind of environment. 

That being said, I ultimately look at Cody's general attitude and personality and agree that his ignorant remarks are not just the result of an exposure problem. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by Jillibean

[MrHufflepuff]

30 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

IAt any rate, I wouldn't look at someone and say, "Well, if he was in the military and didn't learn about trans people/gay people/women's rights/racial minorities, he's just hopeless."

Nobody else in this thread has said this either.

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Sandycat said:

I just watched parts of the finale again and at the reading of the votes when it got down to Cody’s vote I just realized Josh was saying to Paul “you won, you won.” I didn’t hear that before and it makes Josh’s surprise and joy all he more satisfying. 

Also, my favorite part of the jury roundtable was when Raven said she had eight surgeries Cody deadpanned “oh my God”

Actually he used the word gosh, not god.  That is what made it funnier to me.  

[Sketcher]

While it's correct that the DSM put out by the APA stopped classifying homosexuality as a mental disorder in the 1970s, being transgender remained a mental disorder until 2012, and was officially reclassified in the DSM5 released in 2013.  When I received my clinical training in the late 1990s, the debate over the classification was ongoing, but there was certainly no consensus.  In fact, the Gender Identity Disorder diagnosis was the foundation of many lawsuits that forced insurance to cover gender reassignment surgery.

So, knowing how quickly views have changed, I'm willing to cut him some slack.  I recently attended a PGP training for medical professionals and while no one in the room said anything bigoted, there was a great deal of frustration at having to learn to use the new pronouns.  It's hard to acknowledge your privilege and have it challenged, no matter who you are.

[Wings]

I agree. @Sketcher.  Look how long it has taken the gay community to be absorbed into our society and embraced.  

Trans sexual acceptance is in it's infancy.  Deciding the PC terms for the proceedure is still in debate. 

Sex re-assignment surgery or SRS (also known as gender reassignment surgery, gender confirmation surgery, genital reconstruction surgery, gender-affirming surgery, or sex realignment surgery) is the surgical procedure (or procedures) by which a transgender person's physical appearance and function of their existing.

It will take more time.

Edited September 24, 2017 by wings707

[Nashville]

On 9/22/2017 at 0:27 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Paul not going to the wrap party has me rolling. What a baby.

Oh, Josh!

 

I am going to be absolutely, completely, 100% brutally honest here:

It quite literally took me something in the neighborhood of 8-10 seconds to realize Josh was in this picture.

And another 4-5 seconds past THAT to focus on him enough to get the joke.

[Wings]

2 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I am going to be absolutely, completely, 100% brutally honest here:

It quite literally took me something in the neighborhood of 8-10 seconds to realize Josh was in this picture.

And another 4-5 seconds past THAT to focus on him enough to get the joke.

Hysterical and I am SURE you are not alone on this one.  

[Sandycat]

54 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Actually he used the word gosh, not god.  That is what made it funnier to me.  

I wasn’t sure. You are right, it is funnier!

[RandomWatcher]

There's a pic on Instagram of Cody kissing Jessica while standing next to Mark kissing Elena. Jessica and Elena are grabbing each others' butts.

Then there's another pic of Jessica and Cody looking at rings, with Jessica pointing at a ring and Cody facepalming. It's obviously a joke pic.

[PhoneCop]

23 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Quote

 

I think Paul started to walk out the door with Josh but he was asked to stay behind.  They wanted ONLY the winner of BB19 to enter to all the shouts, clapping and glitter. 

Paul was the loser and not entitled to all the hoopla that belonged to ONLY Josh!

 

He wasn't asked to stay behind.  Julie asked them both to come out.

Yeah, I think the F2 usually walk out together, but of course Paul thinks he's a special exception. Josh was clearly expecting as much—as they're walking toward the doors, you can see him clinging to Paul's hand until Paul waves him off and tells him to go ahead so he can have his pissy little man-cry or whatever in the kitchen while Celine wails about Leo DiCaprio being safe in her heart. Okay, I may have watched that clip several dozen times in the last three days.

There's so much to enjoy about it, though. (Poor Mark, nearly taking a tumble as he's leaving his jury seat!) My current favorite may be the #CongratsJosh chyron plastered directly over Paul as he's visibly choking back sobs.

[watch2much]

On 9/23/2017 at 11:56 AM, wings707 said:

I am not surprised.  Many pages ago I opined that Jessica would not be able to open Cody's eyes to his bigotry.   I still don't think she will.  I don't see them making the long haul even though Jess is hinting for ring from him already!  She is heavily into the fantasy of who she thinks Cody is.  Love has blinded her to what we see.  

Jason is a good guy who is ignorant on many things, but his eyes are opening already.  I like him. 

Paul had a gathering last night.  Got this pic from FB.  

  

all the others are probably in demand.  these guys had nothing else to do.

[me5671]

2 minutes ago, watch2much said:

all the others are probably in demand.  these guys had nothing else to do.

HAHA, absolutely!  Paul is so petty by doing this.  Not only did he choose not to invite anyone on the jury who didn't vote for his highness, he also chose not to invite anyone who was evicted pre-jury or even Josh!  What an asshole.  You can tell he's aghast that Josh had the audacity to actually try to beat him in those last few weeks.  I am still so happy Paul lost.  

[Wings]

2 minutes ago, me5671 said:

HAHA, absolutely!  Paul is so petty by doing this.  Not only did he choose not to invite anyone on the jury who didn't vote for his highness, he also chose not to invite anyone who was evicted pre-jury or even Josh!  What an asshole.  You can tell he's aghast that Josh had the audacity to actually try to beat him in those last few weeks.  I am still so happy Paul lost.  

I think he knew that he wouldn't get any takers!   Can I get a rain check on that?  Maybe another time.  My grandmother died.  Work called.  

[RandomWatcher]

5 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I think he knew that he wouldn't get any takers!   Can I get a rain check on that?  Maybe another time.  My grandmother died.  Work called.  

Or if they really wanted to grind Paul's gears, say that a former house guest wants to have dinner with them. 

[betweenthebanter]

14 minutes ago, me5671 said:

HAHA, absolutely!  Paul is so petty by doing this.  Not only did he choose not to invite anyone on the jury who didn't vote for his highness, he also chose not to invite anyone who was evicted pre-jury or even Josh!  What an asshole.  You can tell he's aghast that Josh had the audacity to actually try to beat him in those last few weeks.  I am still so happy Paul lost.  

Hate having to defend Paul, but in terms of Josh not being there I think Josh had already left with his family for home.  Paul's bitterness might lead to him bailing on a friendship with Josh in the near future, but as of now I think they've hung out post show.

[Wings]

2 hours ago, RandomWatcher said:

Or if they really wanted to grind Paul's gears, say that a former house guest wants to have dinner with them. 

Brilliant!  

Edited September 24, 2017 by wings707