S03.E04: Sabrosito

[ShellSeeker]

Quote

Jimmy asks a favor of Mike; new complications disrupt Salamanca's' business; Chuck and Jimmy struggle with a compromise.

[benteen]

Great episode!  I'll stand by my earlier criticisms of the first two episodes but these last two have really delivered and I feel like Better Call Saul is really back.

Awesome scene with Don Eladio in the beginning and nice to see Hector so pissed off.  The scene with Gus's employees was very tense and it was great seeing Gus interact with a functional Hector.  I thought Giancarlo really nailed it in the scene where he's explaining to his employees what "really" happened.  It's easy to see why they are so loyal to him and 24 hours of overtime doesn't hurt either.  I liked the guy playing Lyle and both BB and BCS are so good with this kind of minor casting.  I'm a little worried about Lyle going forward.

Mike meets Chuck!  Sort of.  So great getting these two together although considering Mike was under an alias, it's likely that we won't get too much more interaction.  Nice to see the insufferable Chuck (who reached new levels of assholery in that meeting at the end) have to put up with all the noise that Mike was making.

Odenkirk did some terrific acting in that "apology" to Chuck.

[SailorGirl]

I admit I was only half paying attention to this episode -- what was the point of Mike taking those pictures -- is Jimmy planning on using them in the hearing to show Chuck is full of BS, and if so, how? Or is he going to burn down the house, using the lamp on the newspapers as the ignition, thus destroying the additional tape in the process? Or do we even know yet?

Sailorgirl

Edited May 2, 2017 by SailorGirl

[peeayebee]

Loved this. Like you said, it was great seeing Don Eladio, Don Bolsa, and The Walking Talking Hector. I kept expecting Hector to pee in the pool. What a great scene that was with Eladio being so pleased with Hector's rolled up cash, but then Bolsa brings out the bundles of beautiful, professionally wrapped stacks of... $100's(?) that make Hector's rolls look so meager. There was one bit that I wonder if it was planned: As Eladio is looking at the bundles, one of Hector's rolls is about to fall off the table, but Eladio dismissively flicks it away. Awesome.

All the scenes at Los Pollos Hermanos were great. I don't have much to say about them, just that I enjoyed the tension.

The whole thing with Kim called the repair businesses until she found the right one was terrific. Mike was funny scaring Chuck off with the power drill. I like that after Mike told Jimmy that it was kinda nice to fix something we then see him reading Handyman magazine.

The hearing -- or whatever it was called -- was fantastic. The lawyerly nitpicking about damaged vs destroyed was perfect. I expected Jimmy's apology to be muted, but it sounded very sincere. I like that Kim found out there was indeed another copy of the tape -- Why didn't I consider that? -- but now I wonder what their plan is. Anyway...

BINGO!

[Dev F]

So the mysterious address Mike swiped from Chuck's house was Rebecca's, right? She would be an ideal pawn in a plot to make Chuck look unstable in front of the bar association.

It would never have occurred to me before this week, but I wonder if we're headed toward an ironic turnabout by which, in his attempt to save his law license, Jimmy accidentally gets Chuck disbarred. I could imagine that leading to some heavy guilt -- but it would also be pretty amusing if Jimmy changes his name to Saul Goodman not because he's embarrassed himself, but because Chuck's downfall drags the family name through the mud.

A few hours ago in the previous episode thread, I pondered the significance of the parallels between the opening and the closing scenes of that episode, and wondered if we were supposed to see Jimmy and Kim as those two abandoned shoes hanging onto each other on the telephone lines, all hollowed out and spent of their purpose, clinging together desperately but really just waiting to be ripped apart and fall to earth. But now I'm thinking they're more like the shoes later in the episode -- filled with secrets and poised with purpose over their mark. The opening scene is what happens after they give Chuck what's coming to him. Then, having achieved their mutual goal, they may discover there's nothing left to keep them together.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Dev F

[thuganomics85]

Oh, yeah!  Don Eladio!  And his backyard and pool.  I'm sure nothing bad ever happens there!  Great set-up for the Gus and Hector drama.

Great seeing Gus and Hector on camera together for the first time since Breaking Bad.  Their styles and how they contrast one another is great, and I can see how both are successful in their own way, and how dangerous each of them are.  Still Team Gus though.  Yeah, he's a criminal too and I clearly know what he's capable of, but unlike Hector, I enjoy his more logical and calm game, and how he handles the criminal world, but truly treats Los Pos Hermanos as a legit business, and not just a front.  The way he flips between Cartel Gus and Manager/Owner Gus with his employees, is fantastic.  I really hope we get more insights into his times as the restaurant, and expand upon his employees, because I almost find that as interesting as his cartel work.  Giancarlo Espositio has never been better.

Hey, Nacho finally returns!  And... says maybe one or two lines.  I do hope he factors in more soon.  Hopefully, when the Gus/Hector feud really reaches its breaking point.  Speaking of which, Gus just extended a job offer to Mike, who didn't completely turn him down.  This is going to be good!

Not sure what Kim and Jimmy are trying to pull on Chuck with those pictures, but it sounds like whatever they are planning is working, judging from her "bingo" at the end.  I guess it has to do with him admitting the original tape is still around?  The whole boardroom scene was a perfect mixture of pettiness and boring law stuff.  Chuck would pitch a fit about three dollars and the wording of his stupid cassette tape. And then his indifferent reaction over Jimmy being forced to apologize.  Asshole.  Thank you, Mike, for at least giving him some shit with that power drill!

After a slow start, I really feel like the season is picking up now and I'm back to yearning for the next episode.

[LittleIggy]

I've loved Mark Margolis since The Equalizer, Giancarlo Esposito since School Daze, and Jonathan Banks since Wiseguy so I thought this episode was awesome.

[Eulipian 5k]

I got a click around "do loop" for the definition of Sabrosito, ... tasty?

Mike's dangerous with power tools. Great framing of him in the doorway w/ Chuck retreating up the stairs.

As long as the words "flames" and "crisp" are in next week's script I'll be happy; and I don't mean Gustavo's chicken!

Gus could chill a truckload of Cervezas.

[Dev F]

2 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Chuck would pitch a fit about three dollars and the wording of his stupid cassette tape.

I think he wanted to make sure that Jimmy acknowledged his destruction of the tape on the record, so he'll be able to introduce its contents in Jimmy's bar review. He thought he was being clever letting Jimmy not acknowledge the tape directly in the confession but having him admit to its destruction by paying its precise value in restitution.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

So, in what way is Gus being forced to transport Hector's product good for Gus?

[AuntiePam]

Why didn't Kim and Jimmy stick with "destroyed" in the first place? 

The bar hearing could get interesting, when it comes out that there's a copy of the tape.

Judge to Chuck:  Why did you make a copy of the tape? 

Chuck:  Because I knew Jimmy would try to destroy it. 

Judge:  But how would Jimmy even know the tape existed? 

Chuck:  Um, because I told Ernie.

Judge:  Why did you do that, if you were worried about keeping it safe? 

Chuck:  I got nuthin'.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Why didn't Kim and Jimmy stick with "destroyed" in the first place? 

Never admit to more than you have to. "Damaged" is weaker than "destroyed."

[Bryce Lynch]

22 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So, in what way is Gus being forced to transport Hector's product good for Gus?

I think Gus wanted to be "forced" to take over Hector's shipping, probably so he can take over his territory or move ahead of him with Don Eladio.

Gus and Jimmy seem to be playing similar games, getting their adversaries to "force" situations that they want to happen.

And of course Mike, who likes to fix things, is helping both men execute their plans.

Lyle has onions.  I could see him becoming one of Mike's guys.

The one thing I didn't buy was Gus hiring a guy with a mouth piercing to work at LPH.  Maybe in his "other" business, but it seemed out of place at LPH.

I imagine Jimmy and Kim will use Chuck introducing the tape as an excuse to bring up the photos and all the other evidence of Chuck's lunacy to explain WHY Jimmy "lied" on the tape to make his.poor, mentally disturbed brother feel better. I wouldn't be surprised if they put Howard on the stand to testify under oath about his partner's erratic behavior.

When Don Eladio was swimming, all I could think of was that he was swimming in Hector's toilet. :)

Edited May 2, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[AuntiePam]

Just now, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Never admit to more than you have to. "Damaged" is weaker than "destroyed."

True.  But if part of their defense is the fact that the tape was copied (Chuck set Jimmy up), they needed "destroyed".  If "damaged" had been left in the statement, Chuck could play a damaged tape.  No one would know he made a copy. 

Maybe I'm making too much of it, but that's the only reason I can see why they'd be so happy about the duplicate tape -- it confirms that Jimmy's reaction was what Chuck was hoping for.  So it seems important that the word be "destroyed". 

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Lyle has onions.  I could see him becoming one of Mike's guys.

I see him trying to do too much and ending up dead.

[Sharper2002]

Quote

So, in what way is Gus being forced to transport Hector's product good for Gus?

I was wondering the same thing. I know Hector is doing this as a reaction to being busted by the DEA, but I'm assuming this wasn't the reaction that Gus wanted. He wanted to take Hector out of the game; he didn't want to have to carry his competitor's product. Right? I have a feeling that "agreement" won't hold for too long.

Ugh. Hector is such a deplorable human being. He's a deplorable human being that raised more deplorable human beings (Tuco and the shiny-suit Cousins) and I find him to have no redeemable qualities. And he's a petty man, too? Even worse.

I know Hector and Gus are both slinging meth and in an awful business, but at the very least, I think Gus did care about the well-being of his employees and customers. Yes, it would have been bad for business if anything happened to them, but I don't think he'd want them to get hurt because they're not in the "game", as Mike would say.

Shout out to Nacho for finally appearing! Also, another shout out to him for giving his counterpart a "WTF" look when the guy was blocking the mom and child's way. He was looking like, "Don't be a dick, man."

More Mike and Chuck scenes, please. Mike scaring Chuck away with the power drill was beautiful. That's how you handle an asshat like Chuck.

Looking forward to how next week will unfold in brother vs. brother. Hoping Kim will come to the rescue!

[Bryce Lynch]

I think poor Chuck doesn't realize what he is up against.  He might have been able to hold his own in a head to head  scam war with Slippin' Jimmy.

But with Slippin' Jimmy, "Giselle St. Claire" and "Dave Clark" all ganging up on him, I think he is boned.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

25 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Gus and Jimmy seem to be playing similar games, getting their adversaries to "force" situations that they want to happen.

And of course Mike, who likes to fix things, is helping both men execute their plans.

That part is true; and we are waiting to see the reasoning behind both plans.

22 minutes ago, Sharper2002 said:

I was wondering the same thing. I know Hector is doing this as a reaction to being busted by the DEA, but I'm assuming this wasn't the reaction that Gus wanted.

Except it seems to be exactly what Gus wanted - he happily tossed the balled up foil into the garbage, and he told Mike that he had helped him more than he knew.  This appears to be part of his plan.

22 minutes ago, Sharper2002 said:

I think Gus did care about the well-being of his employees and customers.

He called them "civilians." He also seemed to understand why Mike was upset about the murdered motorist who helped the truck driver.

Edited May 2, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Auntie Anxiety]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

 I expected Jimmy's apology to be muted, but it sounded very sincere.

Jimmy's apology was really a dig at Chuck, especially when Jimmy said that he shouldn't have treated his brother (Chuck) that way. It was an FU.

I think Kim and Jimmy are going to make mincemeat out of Chuck at the Board of Bar Overseers meeting and those pictures will show just his crazy and unfit Chuck is. Howard will have to ask Chuck to resign because if/when word gets out, it will scare away the big name clients. 

A friend of mine is finding the show to be very slow this season, even this past episode, and I wonder if some of that is because she never watched Breaking Bad (oh, the sacrilege!). I tried to watch this episode through her eyes and I can see how it might be a little boring and hard to follow. I love the camera work probably because it is so reminiscent (that shot from under the water looking up reminded me of the pink toy floating in Walter's pool). Had to laugh when Mike said that he might end up working for Gus.

[HappyDancex2]

That "music" at the end when mike and Gus were talking...it was like deep, low buzzing that was ominous...simply perfect.  This show does tension, pauses and disharmony in a way that fits its storyline...like a cousin to BB.

significance of Gus always wearing yellow and brown?

the opening swimming pool scene drove me crazy...you always expect somebody to get whacked.

[Bannon]

I thought Jimmy's plan was to threaten Howard/HHM with mutually assured destruction, by revealing the violation of legal ethics in allowing a partner with Chuck's mental issues to continue to handle client's business, especially in the physical sense, in the kind of building Chuck's home has become. This would cause Howard to not cooperate with the prosecution, leading to charges being dropped. 

It turns out that Jimmy is beyond the threat stage. It seems to me that he is going to use the bar hearing to destroy Chuck professionally, and maybe HHM as well. It may be the case that Chuck lied in his police report and his complaint to the Bar Association, about the tapes, and his motivations. Combine that with the photographic evidence (remember Chuck's snotty aside to Kim about the standards for entering evidence at bar hearings?) that Chuck and HHM are clearly violating legal ethics with regard to taking reasonable care to protect clients' vital legal documents, and Chuck/HHM could be gravely damaged, and the bar complaint against Jimmy quashed. The scene in the conference room was simply spectacular.

On the other front, kudos to Steven Bauer, a criminally underappreciated actor. If you watch "Ray Donovan", it is a marvel that the same actor plays these two very different, but  in broad strokes,  characters with similarities, without the viewer ever seeing the two bleed into each other. Simply fantastic. The scene poolside was also simply off the charts, writing, direction, and acting, in terms of revealing character.

It is hard to overstate how much better this show is, to me, than anything else I watch.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Bannon
Typo

[EtheltoTillie]

One third rule. Ansel Adams of covert photography! Ha ha ha. 

Mike with the power drill. Double ha ha ha. 

 Jimmy looked at Kim with a loving expression that she could not see when they were drafting the statement. Odenkirk does so much with a moment. 

I am very afraid for Lyle. 

[Bannon]

Also,

Spoiler

in the previews for next week, we see the seeds of Kim's relationship with Mesa Verde being destroyed. This likely is part of how Jimmy and Kim's relationship is destroyed.

loss is always around the corner in Albuquerque!

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, GussieK said:

One third rule. Ansel Adams of covert photography! Ha ha ha. 

Mike with the power drill. Double ha ha ha. 

 Jimmy looked at Kim with a loving expression that she could not see when they were drafting the statement. Odenkirk does so much with a moment. 

I am very afraid for Lyle. 

Yep, poor Lyle is way too consciencetious for his situation. Hope it doesn't get him killed.

I also think Gus' plan is to get Don Elaidro to sanction Gus taking Hector out.

[scenario]

I see the trial going this way.

Chuck presents his case. Then Kim and Jimmy get to call witnesses. 

The call 3 or 4 Doctors who all say Chuck is mentally ill. They call Chucks x-wife who says the same thing. They call the the prosecuting attorney who was in Chucks house and use her testimony to enter the pictures into evidence. They call Ernesto. They call Howard and get him to admit that Chuck has been living like this for years and saying paranoid things about Jimmy for months. Then they call Jimmy. He talks about how he spent years caring for his brother always watching everything he said so that Chuck wouldn't get upset. Then he testifies about Chuck getting more and more erratic and paranoid. He testifies that Chuck threw him out and changed the locks for no known reason. Then Chuck and Jimmy had the first real conversation they'd had in years and it ended in Chuck giving a wild paranoid fantasy that Jimmy was so shocked at he just went Yes Chuck, your absolutely right. He was thinking about having Chuck committed at this time but he knew that it would destroy him. Then he found out that Chuck had recorded his "confession" and he lost it. He is really, really sorry but the strain of taking care of a seriously mentally ill brother for years got to him and he just lost it. 

Jimmy gets a slap on the wrist and Chuck loses his licence until he gets treated and can prove that his mental illness is under control. Kim spends so much time on the case that she loses Mesa Verde. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I never realized that was Steven Bauer!  He looks so different. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by GussieK

[knaankos]

1 hour ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

 

I think Kim and Jimmy are going to make mincemeat out of Chuck at the Board of Bar Overseers meeting and those pictures will show just his crazy and unfit Chuck is. Howard will have to ask Chuck to resign because if/when word gets out, it will scare away the big name clients. 

 

If Howard even has that level of power any more after. This could end up reflecting very badly on him as well as Chuck. 

2 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

True.  But if part of their defense is the fact that the tape was copied (Chuck set Jimmy up), they needed "destroyed".  If "damaged" had been left in the statement, Chuck could play a damaged tape.  No one would know he made a copy. 

Maybe I'm making too much of it, but that's the only reason I can see why they'd be so happy about the duplicate tape -- it confirms that Jimmy's reaction was what Chuck was hoping for.  So it seems important that the word be "destroyed". 

This could be intentional in order to deeply mask their motives, so Howard and Chuck don't see it coming. I do wonder why the camera zoomed in on Howard as he told Chuck "item of personal property". It seemed Howard had a reason for using that very particular phrasing, let's see if that plays any role moving forward.

Edited May 2, 2017 by knaankos

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I squeed when they cut to handyman Mike in Chuck's doorway.  I am still smiling.  Vroom vroom!  I laughed like crazy when he sensed Chuck coming to speak to him and hit the button.  I bet the crew cracked up at least once.  

I loved seeing the deference given to Chuck and Howard by the prosecutor.  It was nothing compared to how the Bar committee will be.  Kim is not going to win a single motion and the members will practically be lining up to blow Chuck.  And then the worm will turn...I can NOT freaking wait to see it.

God help whomever ends up messing with Lyle (if they do).  What Gus would do to avenge his loyal and trusted civilian.  Oh boy.

Soooo much to treasure in this ep.  I believe that the most significant moment was Mike responding to Gus with, "Could be."  Just as Michael in The Godfather longed to go legit and just be free of his associations with the vipers in crime, Mike understood that he simply had to extricate himself if at all possible.  He has cut such a sympathetic picture to date.  Not anymore.  In this moment, he consciously chose his fate.  He had a real shot at walking away.  Gus very likely would have respected his desire to be a "civilian." 

Mike has forever chosen the business he is in.  Freely.

Again, Jimmy with the velcro wallet (buying Mike's breakfast).  :)

[TVFan17]

I loved seeing the familiar faces again -- Don Eladio, Juan Bolsa and the pool (the lighting and colors in that scene were amazing)!!! -- along with meeting new faces such as Lyle.  Lyle seems like he is going to be an employee who doesn't show up for work one day and then just mysteriously never returns.

It's so odd to me to see Hector now, in this way, as he intimidates Gus (or tries to), intimidates the LPH employees and scares the customers at LPH.    Knowing the Hector-Gus relationship in Breaking Bad, it is so interesting to see their interaction in BCS.  There are so many layers.  Hector is so jealous and bitter, and actually a little bit scary.  Gus is being very composed and reasonable... for now.

Spoiler

I can't help but remember Hector looking so frail, weak and pitiful in his chair, hitting his bell or refusing to look at Gus as Gus taunted him about his family being dead.

I like seeing this Los Pollos Hermanos side of Gus.  I found myself wondering if Gus actually cares about his employees' well being.  I tend to think that even though the restaurant is a front for his real operations, he really wants to run a good restaurant and take care of his employees.  Aside from what we know of Gus in Breaking Bad years, he seems like he's not such a bad guy in BCS -- not bad for a criminal, in any case.   He has every reason to hate Hector, but he is handling him without losing his cool.  

At the same time, I found myself wondering if Gus was secretly thinking that he is going to have to "let Lyle go" because Lyle is getting too curious, and thinking about when he can get rid of Lyle.  Lyle seems like a disposable character.   Either Hector or Gus will do something to him.

[Christina]

I'm guessing that the address is going to be the location of the tape, and that tape is going to wind up being altered.

If Kimberly Herbert Gregory does not come back so that Slipping Jimmy can buy her some gin resulting in her becoming so drunk she pees on a police car, I will literally burst into tears. If she does, I will literally burst into laughter so hard that I burst into tears. It has to happen. For those of you who didn't watch Vice Principals, I'm dropping the scene in the spoiler tag. There is no spoiler for this show, but the videos will hang the thread up. It is in two parts and is very poor quality:

Spoiler

 

 

[Bannon]

3 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I squeed when they cut to handyman Mike in Chuck's doorway.  I am still smiling.  Vroom vroom!  I laughed like crazy when he sensed Chuck coming to speak to him and hit the button.  I bet the crew cracked up at least once.  

I loved seeing the deference given to Chuck and Howard by the prosecutor.  It was nothing compared to how the Bar committee will be.  Kim is not going to win a single motion and the members will practically be lining up to blow Chuck.  And then the worm will turn...I can NOT freaking wait to see it.

God help whomever ends up messing with Lyle (if they do).  What Gus would do to avenge his loyal and trusted civilian.  Oh boy.

Soooo much to treasure in this ep.  I believe that the most significant moment was Mike responding to Gus with, "Could be."  Just as Michael in The Godfather longed to go legit and just be free of his associations with the vipers in crime, Mike understood that he simply had to extricate himself if at all possible.  He has cut such a sympathetic picture to date.  Not anymore.  In this moment, he consciously chose his fate.  He had a real shot at walking away.  Gus very likely would have respected his desire to be a "civilian." 

Mike has forever chosen the business he is in.  Freely.

Again, Jimmy with the velcr,o wallet (buying Mike's breakfast).  :)

Oh, no doubt Mike is responsible for the bed he is making, for him lie in. What makes his making of this story so monumentally sad, and classically tragic, is that his motivation for making this bed is the grief, and the guilt he feels about his son's death.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

At the same time, I found myself wondering if Gus was secretly thinking that he is going to have to "let Lyle go" because Lyle is getting too curious, and thinking about when he can get rid of Lyle.  Lyle seems like a disposable character.   Either Hector or Gus will do something to him.

A thing that rang a little false to me was the employees reaction to Gus' stirring account of what happened in Michoacan and how it was not going to happen here.  I have to think at least some of them were mentally lining up their next job (or maybe I'm just a scaredy cat).  Since when does just saying no to thugs automatically work?  They just experienced a very menacing threesome and Gus is one person who isn't always there.

I really liked this episode, it had so much going on, the pace has picked up and I was dazzled like a child by all the cinematography.  But aside from the LPH employees being maybe too easily reassured by Gus, I must nitpick the fact that Chuck made the DA keep her keys, phone, anything with a battery outside, but never said a word to Mike.  Conveniently Mike is then able to take pictures.  Maybe Chuck's symptoms get worse with stress, and right then he was feeling pretty on top of the world. 

I thought it was interesting that Mike actually said explicitly that he can now stop having the good Samaritan in his head, by virtue of getting the DEA onto Hector, and not receiving payment from Gus.  It's well and good that he doesn't want people not in the game to be hurt, but it also seemed pretty transactional.  And striking that he was that confessional to Gus.

[Bryce Lynch]

I agree with those who think that the address is Rebecca's address and they will call her to testify at Jimmy's hearing.  

I bet Kim had to go through the whole phone book looking for Chuck's "doorman", because the unfortunate HHM employee tasked with finding a contractor to fix Chuck's door had to do the same thing to find someone who would do a $321 job and agree to use no power tools.

This episode made be realize for the first time that the mission to Eladio's to take out the cartel was personal for Mike as well as for Gus.  I always thought it was a bit odd that Mike didn't object to grabbing Eladio's pendant, when they needed to start fighting their way out.  But now we know that he wanted to stick it to Hector almost as much as Gus.

Seeing the rage in Gus when he told Mike that a bullet in the head was too humane for Hector helps explain how his hatred for Hector was the one weakness Walt could use to get him to put his guard down.

Eladio looked good in the LPH t-shirt.  I also liked how he tweaked Hector about his manhood with his Gustavo's is bigger than yours crack.

Hector seems to be the one BB/BCS character who has no redeeming positive traits whatsoever.  The closest to one might be his refusual to rat to the DEA on his enemies.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I got a click around "do loop" for the definition of Sabrosito, ... tasty?

Sabroso is tasty, ito is the diminutive, so little tasty one, or tasty little one. 

[Bannon]

4 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

I loved seeing the familiar faces again -- Don Eladio, Juan Bolsa and the pool (the lighting and colors in that scene were amazing)!!! -- along with meeting new faces such as Lyle.  Lyle seems like he is going to be an employee who doesn't show up for work one day and then just mysteriously never returns.

 

In all the praise  I direct at the peope who are part of this show, I too frequently forget to mention the cinematography. I know I'm an endless loop, but this show looks so much better than anything else I watch, that it is hard to overstate it. 

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

Why didn't Kim and Jimmy stick with "destroyed" in the first place? 

The bar hearing could get interesting, when it comes out that there's a copy of the tape.

Judge to Chuck:  Why did you make a copy of the tape? 

Chuck:  Because I knew Jimmy would try to destroy it. 

Judge:  But how would Jimmy even know the tape existed? 

Chuck:  Um, because I told Ernie.

Judge:  Why did you do that, if you were worried about keeping it safe? 

Chuck:  I got nuthin'.

Chuck's response would be that Ernie "accidentally" heard the tape when he was changing the batteries and though he sternly warned him not to tell anyone, he knew he would probably tell his friend, Jimmy about the tape.

While, Kim and Jimmy might be able to make Chuck's actions look a bit shady, I think Chuck's real problem is going to come when they expose his "condition" and how he and HHM have been deceiving clients  (particularly Mesa Verde) by hiding it from them.  

[ghoulina]

Great episode. It was cool to see Don Eladio again....but Don Eladio is looking rough! 

So much fun to be had this episode. Lots of chicanery going on. I love thinking to myself, "I wonder just what they're up to". I actually enjoy that I don't always know exactly what the end game is; it's just so fun to watch the subtlety of it all. The way Fring's face changed as he was cleaning up the restaurant, after Hector left, just brilliant. 

But I think my favorite scenes were Mike and his fucking drill....driving Chuck batshit crazy. And...the meeting of Gus and Mike in the parking lot. Banks and his "could be" (or "maybe" or whatever he said in response to Fring's potential job offer) - he has such a way of saying a lot without saying much. 

LOVE Kim and her sassy little self. She sure found out about the original tape, didn't she? Again, I'm not entirely sure how this is going to play out, but I can't wait to watch!

[benteen]

2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But I think my favorite scenes were Mike and his fucking drill....driving Chuck batshit crazy. And...the meeting of Gus and Mike in the parking lot. Banks and his "could be" (or "maybe" or whatever he said in response to Fring's potential job offer) - he has such a way of saying a lot without saying much. 

That was great.  Chuck was immediately disdainful to Mike but Mike knows how to handle a douchebag like him.

I want to see Chuck brought down hard by Jimmy.

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, benteen said:

Nice to see the insufferable Chuck (who reached new levels of assholery in that meeting at the end) have to put up with all the noise that Mike was making.

Oh my gosh, he was SUCH a prick this episode! Making sure to include the $1.98 for the tape. Petty. And the way he instructed Mike to wipe his feet before coming in. As if Mike is a 5-year-old who doesn't know what a doormat is for. As if you'd even be able to SEE a speck of dirt in that dark house. Grrr, Chuck just bugs. 

 

8 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

I see him trying to do too much and ending up dead.

Agree. In fact, given that HE was the one pushing for an explanation, I had images last night of Gus quietly slitting his throat as he took out the trash. 

 

4 hours ago, Christina said:

I'm guessing that the address is going to be the location of the tape, and that tape is going to wind up being altered.

Agree. I think they'll do something to it where it winds up not playing. It won't be an obvious destruction, but when the tape is rolled out in the courtroom, it's not going to work and Chuck will look like a fool. 

[Conan Troutman]

8 hours ago, Dev F said:

It would never have occurred to me before this week, but I wonder if we're headed toward an ironic turnabout by which, in his attempt to save his law license, Jimmy accidentally gets Chuck disbarred. I could imagine that leading to some heavy guilt -- but it would also be pretty amusing if Jimmy changes his name to Saul Goodman not because he's embarrassed himself, but because Chuck's downfall drags the family name through the mud.

I like it, but I think it's going to be more mundane - like Jimmy hating Chuck so much that he simply gets rid of the name. But either way, the whole Jimmy-changes-his-name-as-part-of-a-deal-with-Chuck idea seems more and more unlikely - I doubt Jimmy's going to agree to any deal now.

 

So, do they steal the tape or tamper with it in some form (I assume where the real tape is was written on the piece of paper that Mike copied) or follow through on the  "yeah of course I said that, to stop my brother from going crazy" defense? I guess the latter could still be an option, but the show told us "no, that's not what's going to happen" when they had Jimmy breaking in. 

[NutmegsDad]

I'm finding interesting parallels between the feud between the Brothers McGill and the interaction with Mike and Gus.

Mike regrets the Good Samaritan who got killed helping the truck driver because he was a civilian, while Ernesto, who got used and then fired by Chuck, is a civilian in the Brothers' feud.

When I saw Mike in Chuck's house, and knowing what Mike becomes and what Mike is capable of, I kept hoping and wanting to see Mike shoot Chuck dead. And then, I remember what Cartel!Gus said about Hector, that a bullet to the head would be more humane.

I agree with the theory that Jimmy changes his name not because of him, but because of Chuck.

Let me ask (and let me check), did Howard and the PI actually witness the assault on Chuck by Jimmy, or did they hear the commotion in the other room and then see the aftermath?

[Bryce Lynch]

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

I thought Jimmy's plan was to threaten Howard/HHM with mutually assured destruction, by revealing the violation of legal ethics in allowing a partner with Chuck's mental issues to continue to handle client's business, especially in the physical sense, in the kind of building Chuck's home has become. This would cause Howard to not cooperate with the prosecution, leading to charges being dropped. 

It turns out that Jimmy is beyond the threat stage. It seems to me that he is going to use the bar hearing to destroy Chuck professionally, and maybe HHM as well. It may be the case that Chuck lied in his police report and his complaint to the Bar Association, about the tapes, and his motivations. Combine that with the photographic evidence (remember Chuck's snotty aside to Kim about the standards for entering evidence at bar hearings?) that Chuck and HHM are clearly violating legal ethics with regard to taking reasonable care to protect clients' vital legal documents, and Chuck/HHM could be gravely damaged, and the bar complaint against Jimmy quashed. The scene in the conference room was simply spectacular.

On the other front, kudos to Steven Bauer, a criminally underappreciated actor. If you watch "Ray Donovan", it is a marvel that the same actor plays these two very different, but  in broad strokes,  characters with similarities, without the viewer ever seeing the two bleed into each other. Simply fantastic. The scene poolside was also simply off the charts, writing, direction, and acting, in terms of revealing character.

It is hard to overstate how much better this show is, to me, than anything else I watch.

I agree that HHM is very vulnerable to ethics charges or at least to a grave loss of reputation for the way they have hidden Chuck's mental illness from clients,  I don't really buy the failure to take reasonable care of clients' documents charge though.  I am sure lawyers frequently take work home or take documents home when they are going to go straight to court the next morning.  Generally speaking the documents might have been safer at Chuck's, where Chuck is almost always home, due to his "condition" and very, few people come and go, as opposed to in a bustling legal office where attorneys, clients, employees, maintenance people, deliverymen, etc. are constantly coming and going.  It was not foreseeable to Chuck that anyone would break in to tamper with fairly innocuous licensing documents. 

I think Jimmy's defense will be that Chuck is nuts, and Jimmy only "admitted" to doing what Chuck, in his wild, paranoid delusion, claimed Jimmy did with the documents to talk his beloved and troubled brother off the ledge and get him to take the space blankets off the walls.  The part of the tape where Chuck says, "You just admitted to a felony", and Jimmy replies, "I guess, but you feel better, right.", combined with testimony from the ER doctor, Ernie, the officers who tasered Chuck when he stole the paper draped in a space blanket, and perhaps even Howard testifying about all Jimmy did to care for Chuck would make a strong defense for Jimmy.  

What bothers me, is that I think Howard would be very aware of how damaging exposing Chuck's mental illness and HHM's cover up of it would be to HHM.  I would think Howard would be desperately trying to keep the tape from going public at the hearing. 

 My theory is that Howard might be setting up Chuck to be humiliated at the hearing and have a mental breakdown, so he can have him committed.  I assume Chuck has taken steps to make sure Jimmy will never have any sort of guardianship over him, and since he has no other family or friends, Howard would be the logical choice for Chuck to appoint to be his medical proxy/conservator.  If Howard is put in charge of Chuck's affairs while he is institutionalized, he could probably take control of HHM without having to buy Chuck out.  

[Dev F]

38 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

So, do they steal the tape or tamper with it in some form (I assume where the real tape is was written on the piece of paper that Mike copied) or follow through on the  "yeah of course I said that, to stop my brother from going crazy" defense?

Tampering with the tape seems too risky to me, because there's no way for them to know that Chuck doesn't have another duplicate somewhere. I also doubt that Chuck would write down the location of something he just stashed for safekeeping in his address book, as if he would forget where he put the really important thing he's planning on using in a couple weeks.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Dev F

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, NutmegsDad said:

I'm finding interesting parallels between the feud between the Brothers McGill and the interaction with Mike and Gus.

Mike regrets the Good Samaritan who got killed helping the truck driver because he was a civilian, while Ernesto, who got used and then fired by Chuck, is a civilian in the Brothers' feud.

When I saw Mike in Chuck's house, and knowing what Mike becomes and what Mike is capable of, I kept hoping and wanting to see Mike shoot Chuck dead. And then, I remember what Cartel!Gus said about Hector, that a bullet to the head would be more humane.

I agree with the theory that Jimmy changes his name not because of him, but because of Chuck.

Let me ask (and let me check), did Howard and the PI actually witness the assault on Chuck by Jimmy, or did they hear the commotion in the other room and then see the aftermath?

 Both Gus and Jimmy also both have jealous "older brothers".  Didn't Eladio tell Hector we are "all brothers" after busting his chops about his smaller and sloppier bag of cash?  

Chuck is a self-righteous, condescending prick, but I don't think he deserves to die.  

I believe the PI and Howard only heard what happened and came in right after.  I'm not sure how relevant it will be, though, as Jimmy has made a written confession.  My guess is he might get away with a suspension based upon his behavior during a family squabble.  That could be why Chuck wants to bring the tape in.  If the ethics board believes his confession that he doctored the documents of Chuck's client to commit a fraud, I would think permanent disbarment would be a no-brainer. 

1 minute ago, Dev F said:

Tampering with the tape seems too risk to me, because there's no way for them to know that Chuck doesn't have another duplicate somewhere. I also doubt that Chuck would write down the location of something he just stashed for safekeeping in his address book, as if he would forget where he put the really important thing he's planning on using in a couple weeks.

I agree.  It seems clear that Kim and Jimmy want Chuck to play the tape at the hearing.  They are planning on having it backfire on him, in some manner.  Kim's talk of suppressing the tape was just a ruse to get Howard and Chuck to confirm that they were going to introduce the tape, which is apparently essential to Kim and Jimmy's plan.  

[nodorothyparker]

It turned out to be a good episode, but if you're not hardcore into the BB universe 25 minutes of subtitles between people you mostly haven't been watching for 2 1/2 seasons is a rough start for 10 p.m. on a school night.  I almost gave up and went to bed.

Of course Jimmy's best man for the job is Mike, and Mike basically chasing Chuck upstairs with the power drill was terrific.  That entire sequence from start to finish was fantastic in showing that even though Jimmy may have been blindsided by Chuck he really does know him that well, and no surprise that Chuck can barely contain his disdain for a lowly handyman.  I was really struck by the scene afterward when Jimmy was trying to get Mike to agree that Chuck was indeed an asshole and Mike could only look at him like what does that have to do with the job and does it even matter.  It didn't really hit me until then that in all of Mike and Saul's interactions in BB, Mike knows all about Jimmy and his asshole brother issues too.

Mike seems so close to just wanting to be done with all of these people, even remarking that it's nice to be fixing something for a change.  But Kaylee needs her shiny new house in her shiny new school district and Mike is Mike, so there he is.  His late meeting with Gus was nicely done as you could almost see the wheels turning in his head that Gus with his genial outward demeanor and his understanding about "civilians" is someone he could do business with after all.  Giancarlo Esposito was doing nice work this episode in reminding us what a complete split personality Gus can be, even though I doubt his employees really cared all that much about his stirring speech as much as they cared that they were being extremely well compensated as far as fast-food employees go for whatever weirdness their boss is involved in.

Kim really went all in this episode, which Jimmy was clearly aware of and appreciating it and that kind of breaks my heart a little bit knowing that it likely won't end well for her either.  Of course Chuck is such a pedantic asshole that he would want restitution for a cassette tape.  Jimmy's "apology" was extremely pointed in saying "no brother should ever treat his brother that way" but I'm sure in his self-righteousness that went completely over Chuck's head too.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

It turned out to be a good episode, but if you're not hardcore into the BB universe 25 minutes of subtitles between people you mostly haven't been watching for 2 1/2 seasons is a rough start for 10 p.m. on a school night.  I almost gave up and went to bed.

Of course Jimmy's best man for the job is Mike, and Mike basically chasing Chuck upstairs with the power drill was terrific.  That entire sequence from start to finish was fantastic in showing that even though Jimmy may have been blindsided by Chuck he really does know him that well, and no surprise that Chuck can barely contain his disdain for a lowly handyman.  I was really struck by the scene afterward when Jimmy was trying to get Mike to agree that Chuck was indeed an asshole and Mike could only look at him like what does that have to do with the job and does it even matter.  It didn't really hit me until then that in all of Mike and Saul's interactions in BB, Mike knows all about Jimmy and his asshole brother issues too.

Mike seems so close to just wanting to be done with all of these people, even remarking that it's nice to be fixing something for a change.  But Kaylee needs her shiny new house in her shiny new school district and Mike is Mike, so there he is.  His late meeting with Gus was nicely done as you could almost see the wheels turning in his head that Gus with his genial outward demeanor and his understanding about "civilians" is someone he could do business with after all.  Giancarlo Esposito was doing nice work this episode in reminding us what a complete split personality Gus can be, even though I doubt his employees really cared all that much about his stirring speech as much as they cared that they were being extremely well compensated as far as fast-food employees go for whatever weirdness their boss is involved in.

Kim really went all in this episode, which Jimmy was clearly aware of and appreciating and that kind of breaks my heart a little bit knowing that it likely won't end well for her either.  Of course Chuck is such a pedantic asshole that he would want restitution for a cassette tape.  Jimmy's "apology" was extremely pointed in saying "no brother should ever treat his brother that way" but I'm sure in his self-righteousness that went completely over Chuck's head too.

Yes, Kim was in full "Giselle St. Claire" mode, social engineering to get Chuck's door repair canceled and tricking Howard and Chuck into revealing their strategy with the tape.  

Good point about Jimmy's apology.  He was really apologizing to himself on behalf of Chuck.

Regarding the $1.98 for the tape, I couldn't quite figure out if Chuck was being petty in wanting every penny of restitution or if he added the charge on so there would be documentation that Jimmy has destroyed (or was it "damaged") a cassette tape, so he can bring in the undamaged, original tape in Jimmy's ethics hearing.  I am guessing it was the latter.  

[nodorothyparker]

I have no trouble believing that that was Chuck trying to document the destruction of the tape for the ethics hearing.  But he also is really that petty in thinking he's going to get every last thing he's convinced himself Jimmy "owes" him.

[Bryce Lynch]

Has anyone noticed any code, anagrams, etc. in the season 3 episode titles?

Much, like season 2, they seem to be giving the episodes sort of odd and obscure titles.  I think there is probably a reason for this.

1) Mabel

2) Witness

3) Sunk Costs

4) Sabrosito 

5) Chicanery

6) Off Brand

7) Expenses

8) Slip

9) Fall

10) Lantern

[Shriekingeel]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

He has cut such a sympathetic picture to date.  Not anymore.  In this moment, he consciously chose his fate.  He had a real shot at walking away.  Gus very likely would have respected his desire to be a "civilian." 

All with only two words: "Could be."

 

53 minutes ago, NutmegsDad said:

 

I'm finding interesting parallels between the feud between the Brothers McGill and the interaction with Mike and Gus.

 

It was amusing how Mike must wipe his feet before he enters His Majesty's Palace, while Hector disgustingly cleans his shoes on Gus's desk. 

[benteen]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Agree. In fact, given that HE was the one pushing for an explanation, I had images last night of Gus quietly slitting his throat as he took out the trash.  

I admit, I did get a little worried when he told his employees they could come into his office and ask for counseling privately.

Putting that kerosene lamp on top of a newspaper can't look good.

When it comes to original copies, I'm reminded of the two law classes that I took.  I know for instance that when it comes to a document, you must produce the original copy as a copy of the original document is inadmissible.  My law professor actually pointed to a movie called The Verdict, where a plot point hinges on someone making a copy of an original record.  I don't know how that applies to a cassette tape but Chuck noticeably says that it is the "original tape."

Edited May 2, 2017 by benteen

[Bannon]

44 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree that HHM is very vulnerable to ethics charges or at least to a grave loss of reputation for the way they have hidden Chuck's mental illness from clients,  I don't really buy the failure to take reasonable care of clients' documents charge though.  I am sure lawyers frequently take work home or take documents home when they are going to go straight to court the next morning.  Generally speaking the documents might have been safer at Chuck's, where Chuck is almost always home, due to his "condition" and very, few people come and go, as opposed to in a bustling legal office where attorneys, clients, employees, maintenance people, deliverymen, etc. are constantly coming and going.  It was not foreseeable to Chuck that anyone would break in to tamper with fairly innocuous licensing documents. 

I think Jimmy's defense will be that Chuck is nuts, and Jimmy only "admitted" to doing what Chuck, in his wild, paranoid delusion, claimed Jimmy did with the documents to talk his beloved and troubled brother off the ledge and get him to take the space blankets off the walls.  The part of the tape where Chuck says, "You just admitted to a felony", and Jimmy replies, "I guess, but you feel better, right.", combined with testimony from the ER doctor, Ernie, the officers who tasered Chuck when he stole the paper draped in a space blanket, and perhaps even Howard testifying about all Jimmy did to care for Chuck would make a strong defense for Jimmy.  

What bothers me, is that I think Howard would be very aware of how damaging exposing Chuck's mental illness and HHM's cover up of it would be to HHM.  I would think Howard would be desperately trying to keep the tape from going public at the hearing. 

 My theory is that Howard might be setting up Chuck to be humiliated at the hearing and have a mental breakdown, so he can have him committed.  I assume Chuck has taken steps to make sure Jimmy will never have any sort of guardianship over him, and since he has no other family or friends, Howard would be the logical choice for Chuck to appoint to be his medical proxy/conservator.  If Howard is put in charge of Chuck's affairs while he is institutionalized, he could probably take control of HHM without having to buy Chuck out.  

I dunno, it seems to me that a house without electricity, without a telephone, where camp lanterns are set upon stacks of newspapapers, where the single occupant/lawyer is known to become suddenly incapacitated, is a far more precarious setting for vital documents than a bustling legal office or a normal attorney's home. There's a lot of different ways that HHM is violating legal ethics, and many ways for Howard to abandon Chuck, and we'll see where the writers go with it.