S06.E11: Trojan Horse

[thewhiteowl]

Quote

Olivia and the team are determined to bring down Peus but as the Electoral College vote draws near, the fight for power claims another victim.

[NeenerNeener]

That's the second time I've heard "Who Knows Where The Time Goes" as a soundtrack to a tv show in the last month.

Zoe Perry has a sitcom on CBS next fall, so she can't be Mellie's CoS for very long, if at all.

Edited April 21, 2017 by NeenerNeener

[Spartan Girl]

Gee, no big deal if a pair of psychotic murderers now have access to the White House and The Grant kids are in danger, Fitz and Liv gotta screw!

Edited April 21, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[TigerLynx]

Am I supposed to see Olivia and Fitz as a love story?  Because that is never going to happen.

I have no idea what the idiots who run around brutally killing everyone are up to, but if they really wanted to eliminate the competition and take control, they should have just let the group of original idiots take each other out.

[Chaos Theory]

I'm just glad someone (Even if it was Cyrus) finally slammed the door on Olivia.

Not everything is about you Fitz!

[KaveDweller]

Why was Olivia so upset at the idea of her father going to prison. He's a fucking murderer. More so than most people on this show. Didn't she even try to kill him herself a few seasons ago? What has he done to earn redemption?

Why are these people going to so much trouble to elect Mellie? If they want control of the White House, wouldn't it be easier to just wait for whoever wins to take office and then just threaten to kill whoever they care about? It just seems like so much work and I don't understand why they care?

[Guest]

Boohoohoo. Michael, the male prostitute who slept with Cyrus to set him up, cries because his (fake) marriage wasn't good. Let me cry for him. But please, let's end over backwards so the spoiled, entitled, two-faced, election stealer gets her way... again.

Neither of them deserved it. Frankie Vargas did, as Cyrus said.

Enjoy your second stolen White House, Mellie. Oh wait, you can't. Because not only did you not earn it, but you saw what the people who wanted you in power (aka not the American people) are like. Not that you and your compatriots are much (any) better.

[Artsda]

Cyrus slamming the door in Olivia's face was the best. 

[nilyank]

18 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Why was Olivia so upset at the idea of her father going to prison. He's a fucking murderer. More so than most people on this show. Didn't she even try to kill him herself a few seasons ago? What has he done to earn redemption?

 

She actually had the audacity to ask Fitz to forgive her father, the man who killed his eldest son in some power play between him and Olivia.

[WhosThatGirl]

What is even happening on this show anymore? I mean Olivia loves her dad now? Huh? And I'm still totally confused about how Micheal the hooker somehow fell in love with Cyrus who was never nice to him throughout their sham  marriage and now treats it like it was a real marriage and he is how heartbroken. 

This show gives me whiplash. Maybe Frankie arranged the kill on himself to avoid dealing with these people.

[Athena5217]

Of all the unrealistic things about this episode, the one that bothered me the most was Huck wearing Olivia's robe. Can't one of those people buy Huck his own robe at the downtown D.C. Macy's?

Many episodes ago, I let go of worrying abou the big unrealistic things like a murder being committed in front of Millie, who would have Secret Service protection.

[FiveByFive]

52 minutes ago, deaja said:

Enjoy your second stolen White House, Mellie. Oh wait, you can't. Because not only did you not earn it, but you saw what the people who wanted you in power (aka not the American people) are like. Not that you and your compatriots are much (any) better.

To Mellie's credit she didn't want to win it "that way." It's one thing to fight for the presidency. It's another thing to accept the help of evil, corrupt murderers. She knew what was going down and she wanted out.  While everyone on the show has done pretty bad things, ultimately she is the least corrupt of the bunch.

I felt pretty bad about Liz North because, whether I liked her character or not, she did NOT deserve to go out like that. She was always a tough cookie and being clubbed to death wasn't something she deserved. I figured she was going to get it since she hasn't been around much at all. If she had to die, I'd of rather had her go down fighting. 

One thing I don't like about the series is how everyone keeps forgetting how evil the other people are. Cyrus is far from a good man. Olivia's father is far from a good man. However you have had Abby fighting for Cyrus all season and Olivia crying over her father's fake arrest? Cyrus' husband is right to keep Ella away from him. Both of them are killers but then again so are Olivia, Fitz, Huck and Quinn. 

Also where the hell was Susan Ross this season? 

[Layne]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Not everything is about you Fitz!

What did you say??

1 hour ago, deaja said:

But please, let's end over backwards so the spoiled, entitled, two-faced, election stealer gets her way... again.

Which one? Mellie or Olivia?

[bobbyjoe]

I must be hallucinating, because I could swear that I just saw Scandal kill off a semi-major character.  And Scandal virtually never kills anyone, unless they're a guest star, written from the first place with the intent to eventually kill them (i.e., Vargas), or has some sort of gigantic controversy behind the scenes that forces them to do it.  By killing Liz, it would almost be like the show finally realizing that to have surprise and suspense you actually have to have some stakes.  There's no way they could have actually learned that after all this time is there?  I must have been dreaming.

Edited April 21, 2017 by bobbyjoe

[Guest]

7 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

What is even happening on this show anymore? I mean Olivia loves her dad now? Huh? And I'm still totally confused about how Micheal the hooker somehow fell in love with Cyrus who was never nice to him throughout their sham  marriage and now treats it like it was a real marriage and he is how heartbroken. 

This show gives me whiplash. Maybe Frankie arranged the kill on himself to avoid dealing with these people.

Well, to be fair, it has been a whole three episodes since Liv wanted her dad killed. So clearly they're super close.

6 hours ago, FiveByFive said:

To Mellie's credit she didn't want to win it "that way." It's one thing to fight for the presidency. It's another thing to accept the help of evil, corrupt murderers. She knew what was going down and she wanted out.  While everyone on the show has done pretty bad things, ultimately she is the least corrupt of the bunch.

One thing I don't like about the series is how everyone keeps forgetting how evil the other people are. Cyrus is far from a good man. Olivia's father is far from a good man. However you have had Abby fighting for Cyrus all season and Olivia crying over her father's fake arrest? Cyrus' husband is right to keep Ella away from him. Both of them are killers but then again so are Olivia, Fitz, Huck and Quinn. 

Also where the hell was Susan Ross this season? 

I agree that they're all awful, but I don't think Mellie is near the "least corrupt." Of course, the least corrupt on this show still should be serving like 5 life sentences.

[slade3]

Olivia really came off poorly in this episode. So did Mellie, for that matter.

When Olivia was standing in Cyrus's doorway, asking to be let in, I was so angry with her. I was happy Cyrus reminded her about their last phone call and how awful she was to him when he needed a friend. What the hell are Shonda and her writers doing to Olivia? She used to be loyal to her friends and now she's someone who turns her back on them when they need her.

What also irked me about Olivia's behavior in this episode was everything with Rowan. As someone has already mentioned upthread, Olivia has tried to have her father killed, and she has worked closely with Fitz and Jake to have him arrested. Now she wants Fitz to forgive the man who killed his son? This show really needs to make a decision about Rowan and Olivia's relationship. When Rowan was telling her not to rally for Cyrus because it would put his (and her life) in jeopardy, she was all "Too bad", and then when his life was in jeopardy, she freaked out.

I'm also over Fitz and Olivia. I'm an Olake shipper, but I can admit that even if I didn't ship anyone, I'd be annoyed by Olivia screaming in Fitz's face that they're over if he arrests her father, and then leading him into the bedroom mere minutes after he showed her a video of her father in "the oval". Not to mention they are smack in the middle of a crisis. I'm all for Olivia, and any woman, having as much sex with as many partners, as she likes, but was sex really necessary at that very moment? They couldn't wait until after dinner?

Mellie came off poorly to me because she clearly did not care that Liz North had been murdered and that Frankie Vargas is dead. When Olivia walked in, Mellie was shocked, but also couldn't hide that smile when she said "I'm president." Maybe that was the shock, but I don't think Mellie has ever seen the big picture. I think she wants what she wants and doesn't care about everything that goes on around her to get it. The clean up is someone else's problem and I hate that this task is now Jake's.

Angela Webster. Did you really think you could go after Olivia and still date Fitz? Her story line seemed tacked on because her scenes with Fitz were so cold. Why have them sleep together and be a couple, only to have Fitz look at her like a stranger and tell her she was being transferred? I'm glad she's gone, but it just seems like more wasted time.

Edited April 21, 2017 by slade3

[slade3]

12 hours ago, deaja said:

I agree that they're all awful, but I don't think Mellie is near the "least corrupt." Of course, the least corrupt on this show still should be serving like 5 life sentences.

Good point. Mellie was clearly in on part of this assassination. I don't know if she was aware Frankie would be assassinated, but she knew something was being done to help her win. She seemed annoyed with Liz for introducing her to her "backers". I'll have to watch the scene again, but it really seems as if Mellie was aware of Peus and the woman, but not 100% sure what they were doing for her. 

Edited to add that I've rewatched the episode and I was wrong about Mellie. I forgot Olivia had shown her pictures of Peus and Ruland earlier. So Mellie had never met them - she recognized them from the photos. Also, Liz called them "benefactors", not "backers".

21 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Zoe Perry has a sitcom on CBS next fall, so she can't be Mellie's CoS for very long, if at all.

Thanks for this info. I didn't think her character would stick around, and now I'm sure she'll be killed off before (or during) the finale.

16 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

I must be hallucinating, because I could swear that I just saw Scandal kill off a semi-major character.  And Scandal virtually never kills anyone, unless they're a guest star, written from the first place with the intent to eventually kill them (i.e., Vargas), or has some sort of gigantic controversy behind the scenes that forces them to do it.  By killing Liz, it would almost be like the show finally realizing that to have surprise and suspense you actually have to have some stakes.  There's no way they could have actually learned that after all this time is there?  I must have been dreaming.

In her exit interview, Portia de Rossi said she asked to be let go. She wants to pursue a career outside of acting - sounds like she wants to start an art business. I'm sure if she had wanted to stay, she wouldn't have been killed.

A lot of this episode seemed tacked on. I think Trump's win really threw the showrunners and cast, and a lot of these decisions were last minute. I hope they can get it together before they destroy the show even further.

Edited April 21, 2017 by slade3

[Chaos Theory]

I think Olivia and Fitz deserve each other.  (And not in the good way!!).  My God can two people turn something not remotely about them into something entirely about them any harder?

I actually felt bad for both Mellie and Cyrus In this.  They are both horrible people but both actually thought they were running a clean race and wanted to win a clean race but kept getting hit over the head by the fact the clean races are probably not a reality.

Trump's win in real life probably  sent the show's writers into a tail spin "uhhh well their goes our Russian storyline.  No Todd we can't write that hacking storyline....Seriously bugged microwaves? No one would believe that.  Ok assasination.  We will go with that."  

Edited April 21, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[PsychoDrone]

For some reason, I thought psycho-lady was going to hit Mellie with the golf club.  Completely surprised when she took out Portia.  Also, who was going to clean that up?  The two of them just left the mess for Mellie to clean up?!?!  That's how you know the scene was contrived.  Show already had it in mind that Olivia and crew would clean it up.  In actuality, the psychos still could have killed Portia, brought in the cleaner crew, and then left Mellie (clean and pristine) to mull over her position.  That would have been more chilling when Mellie tried to describe it to a potentially-doubtful Olivia since there wouldn't have been any evidence of the event.

Yay, Fitz and Oliva are back together!! /sarcasm.  Yes, forget the crisis, let's go have sex.

I think the thing that really bugs me about Olivia is the gall she has in her actions.  Telling Mellie not to have sex while running for President.  Trying to get Cyrus to do what she wants, despite throwing him under the bus.  Wanting Fitz to forgive Rowan after all the stuff Rowan has done.  Killing Fitz's son, Vargas, and the Secret Service sent to arrest him seasons ago.  I don't really cheer for her.  Cyrus isn't the poster boy for good will, but it was so satisfying when he slammed his door in her face.

Finally, do NOT like that Rowan answers to psycho group.  In previous seasons, Rowan was the big-bad.  This season, they have him beholden to this "group".  Complete waste and stupid.

Edited April 21, 2017 by PsychoDrone

[Primetimer]

Just a heads up that this episode isn't exactly par for the course when it comes to pivotal moments.

View the full article

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Zoe Perry has a sitcom on CBS next fall,

GAH!  She's awful.  Her and her male cohort are both so wrong for this part.  Terrible overly dramatic story line.

Huck best be glad he's not hooked up to a life saving electrical device because Charlie is about to pull the plug...

However, the most unbelievable line of the entire season so far was when Cyrus was asked what he wanted the most and he said he wanted to see Ella.  Oh, you remember her NOW?? He should've said, "I want to see my daughter Bella." 

Edited April 21, 2017 by WhineandCheez

[Guest]

From the recap:

Quote

The first is that Fitz takes Rowan into protective custody and now, for the first time in the history of the show, everyone is on the same side, Avengers-style.

I think it's more like Suicide-Squad-Style where they are all villains in their own way.  ;)

[Empress1]

11 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Zoe Perry has a sitcom on CBS next fall, so she can't be Mellie's CoS for very long, if at all.

Good, I can't stand her. Her line delivery drives me nuts.

I fell out when Mellie told Olivia “Like you’ve never murdered anyone,” as though it’s a common thing – which it is, in this circle, which is hilarious.

I swear I remember it being explicitly stated TO Michael that the marriage is a sham and that they didn't and wouldn't love each other. I mean, Cyrus has LONG been evil so I wasn't that upset to see Michael drag his ass on television, but this whole love thing is nonsense. (Ella is MUCH better off with Michael though. Anyone who takes time to learn to do his Black child's hair is good with me. Cyrus never gave a damn about that child.)

By FAR the best part of the episode was when the FBI director hit Fitz with “Boy, I am the director of the F-B-I, not some chick who got dumped at prom!” I rewound that part a couple of times. You better put some respect on her name! (Which he didn’t, but it was nice to see her demand it.)

[slade3]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think Olivia and Fitz deserve each other.  (And not in the good way!!).  My God can two people turn something not remotely about them into something entirely about them any harder?

I actually felt bad for both Mellie and Cyrus In this.  They are both horrible people but both actually thought they were running a clean race and wanted to win a clean race but kept getting hit over the head by the fact the clean races are probably not a reality.

Trump's win in real life probably  sent the show's writers into a tail spin "uhhh well their goes our Russian storyline.  No Todd we can't write that hacking storyline....Seriously bugged microwaves? No one would believe that.  Ok assasination.  We will go with that."  

After so many years dedicated to this show, I'm sad that Olivia is moving backwards. I actually like Fitz, but when Olivia moved out of the White House in season 5, I left Fitz behind with her. I felt that she moved in there unwillingly and finally made a decision to end a relationship with a man she loved, but didn't want to be with. I thought we would eventually learn that she was afraid to leave Fitz because being with him was easy, but once she was with him, she realized she was not the person she wanted to be.

I started shipping her with Jake because I thought the show was laying groundwork for Jake and Olivia eventually moving each other away from "the darkness" and learning to be equals in whatever twisty universe they chose to live in. I don't know if that was the plan, but I feel as if everything has changed since Trump won, so whatever story they were building is being tossed. I think that's a huge mistake for a show runner to make.

I get that Shonda and co. want to tell a different story after the real life election, but should they do that if it means the show and characters will suffer from bad writing and rushed storylines? The cast and crew keep thanking the fans for our support, but I wish they'd respect us and the show by paying more attention to the plot and character.

In the end, I wish they had kept the Russia storyline (I bet they do, too), and just told the story they wanted to tell. I read an interview a while back that said the first episode had been shot before the election, so the assassination was always in play. I hope one day they discuss what was supposed to happen after that. I don't see how the Russia storyline would have been so different from these two Americans. Maybe the Russians wouldn't have targeted Olivia's friends?

20 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

By FAR the best part of the episode was when the FBI director hit Fitz with “Boy, I am the director of the F-B-I, not some chick who got dumped at prom!” I rewound that part a couple of times. You better put some respect on her name! (Which he didn’t, but it was nice to see her demand it.)

I missed this line. I didn't like her scenes with Fitz, but I like this line. I will have to rewatch.

[Kathcart]

I just realized last night that I have never bought for one second the notion that Fitz is the President. He's just sort of this doofus who hangs around "the oval" all the time, which is oddly empty all the time, too. Shouldn't there be advisors and aides and whatnot in and out, hustling and bustling, telling him important Presidential things and asking him important Presidential questions? Nope. Nobody. Just old Moony Moper. And occasionally Olivia bursting in to pick a fight.

Huck out of the hospital already and working from Olivia's apartment ... riiiiiight.

I was going to say that poor old David Rosen just seems to be comic relief at this point, but the whole show has become comic relief.

[WhosThatGirl]

22 minutes ago, Kathcart said:

I just realized last night that I have never bought for one second the notion that Fitz is the President. He's just sort of this doofus who hangs around "the oval" all the time, which is oddly empty all the time, too. Shouldn't there be advisors and aides and whatnot in and out, hustling and bustling, telling him important Presidential things and asking him important Presidential questions? Nope. Nobody. Just old Moony Moper. And occasionally Olivia bursting in to pick a fight.

Huck out of the hospital already and working from Olivia's apartment ... riiiiiight.

I was going to say that poor old David Rosen just seems to be comic relief at this point, but the whole show has become comic relief.

Right? And the show keeps implying that he's a good president. Like is he? Really? I don't think he is. From what I've seen via the show he's kind of terrible. 

[xtwheeler]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I actually felt bad for both Mellie and Cyrus In this.  They are both horrible people but both actually thought they were running a clean race and wanted to win a clean race but kept getting hit over the head by the fact the clean races are probably not a reality.

I don't think I'm willing to cede high ground to Cyrus as "running a clean race and want[ing] to win a clean race" given he orchestrated Frankie "heroically" shooting to death the poor guy Cyrus blackmailed to fake the hostage situation! YMMV, of course :)

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Kathcart said:

I just realized last night that I have never bought for one second the notion that Fitz is the President. He's just sort of this doofus who hangs around "the oval" all the time, which is oddly empty all the time, too. Shouldn't there be advisors and aides and whatnot in and out, hustling and bustling, telling him important Presidential things and asking him important Presidential questions? Nope. Nobody. Just old Moony Moper. And occasionally Olivia bursting in to pick a fight.

 

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Right? And the show keeps implying that he's a good president. Like is he? Really? I don't think he is. From what I've see

Totally agree.  Yet the sad part is, he's still better than...well, I'm not gonna name names.

[Layne]

3 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

In actuality, the psychos still could have killed Portia, brought in the cleaner crew, and then left Mellie (clean and pristine) to mull over her position.  That would have been more chilling when Mellie tried to describe it to a potentially-doubtful Olivia since there wouldn't have been any evidence of the event.

That is SUCH a good point! 

3 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Just a heads up that this episode isn't exactly par for the course when it comes to pivotal moments.

View the full article

Clever. 

[slade3]

Does anyone know what the point of the Jake/David scene was in the beginning? Jake told David to ask Ruland to leave, but was that because Jake wanted to tell David about what was going on? Because why couldn't he do that after Ponytail left on her own? Part of me thinks the only reason that scene took place was so they could use that clip of Jake holding his hand over David's mouth in the promo.

[Mama No Life]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Right? And the show keeps implying that he's a good president. Like is he? Really? I don't think he is. From what I've seen via the show he's kind of terrible. 

Also, Olivia apparently has carte blanche around the White House so she can storm in and out of various wings for dramatic effect.  Um, where was SS when she just swept into the residence? 

I do find it amusing that Fitz is just living his best bachelor life in the WH....women in and out of his bed, no problem.  I didn't like the FBI woman but I watched that scene where she called Fitz 'boy' three times.  Burn.

I know this is majorly UO here, but I love Olitz. They are my end game...I haven't watched this mess since they broke up until last week because I could tell just from the previews that they were headed back to this.   I think they love each other, but they're just not ready to make the sacrifices to be together. Or, Olivia isn't.  I still hold out hope for series finale jam making. 

[reggiejax]

Quote

I just realized last night that I have never bought for one second the notion that Fitz is the President. He's just sort of this doofus who hangs around "the oval" all the time, which is oddly empty all the time, too. Shouldn't there be advisors and aides and whatnot in and out, hustling and bustling, telling him important Presidential things and asking him important Presidential questions? Nope. Nobody. Just old Moony Moper. And occasionally Olivia bursting in to pick a fight.

To be fair, I am pretty certain that in the Scandal-verse, being President is a part time job. Lord knows the Secret Service is. One would think that with a Presidential election still up in the air, that both Cyrus and Mellie would still have Secret Service details. But apparently Cyrus isn't even worth having a guy standing outside his hotel room, and Mellie can freely go to visit evildoers without any security.

But I guess it works out, as how else could Laurie Metcalf Jr feel free to murder Lizzie, and leave the body for Mellie to deal with, if there was even a hint that the Secret Service kept anything but part-time hours?

[PsychoDrone]

The sooner this shadow organization storyline is over, the better.  Compared to B613, this organization is the Keystone Cops.  Rowan was chilling because he never did any of the wet work.  These idiots are killing people and leaving evidence at the scene.  Rowan's victims NEVER would have known he was behind their problems.  Rowan would give the command and Damascus would console the victims, or family, after it's done.  This makes it worse when considering that Rowan is beholden to them and their stupidity.

Edited April 21, 2017 by PsychoDrone

[Anela]

19 hours ago, nilyank said:

She actually had the audacity to ask Fitz to forgive her father, the man who killed his eldest son in some power play between him and Olivia.

Ugh. I don't understand this sudden turnaround in her, either. 

19 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

Of all the unrealistic things about this episode, the one that bothered me the most was Huck wearing Olivia's robe. Can't one of those people buy Huck his own robe at the downtown D.C. Macy's?

Many episodes ago, I let go of worrying abou the big unrealistic things like a murder being committed in front of Millie, who would have Secret Service protection.

I hadn't thought about that. She should have had secret service protection (although scandal would probably just have the bad guys infiltrating them, too - wasn't Tom protecting the President?) 

I did like Mellie telling Olivia to let go of the "white hat" crap, and Cyrus telling her to go away. Hated her hooking up with Fitz, at the end. I thought they were done. 

[KaveDweller]

12 hours ago, slade3 said:

Good point. Mellie was clearly in on part of this assassination. I don't know if she was aware Frankie would be assassinated, but she knew something was being done to help her win. She seemed annoyed with Liz for introducing her to her "backers". I'll have to watch the scene again, but it really seems as if Mellie was aware of Peus and the woman, but not 100% sure what they were doing for her. Liz said "We have the votes" as if they had discussed a way to win this after Mellie lost. Probably behind Olivia's back.

I didn't get that Mellie was in on any of it. She seemed really devastated when she lost, I think she really expected to win so hadn't even thought about an evil plot to get around that. I don't think she knew anything until Olivia told her at the beginning of this episode. Most of that happened offscreen, but presumably Olivia told Mellie that Cyrus was innocent, her father was blackmailed into doing it, and the whole point was they wanted to get her into office. And when she heard all that she agreed to drop out, but only until Liz talked to her. After Michael did his interview Mellie realized they were still helping her out and stupidly  thought she could somehow benefit from that without having to actually do anything for them.

9 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I swear I remember it being explicitly stated TO Michael that the marriage is a sham and that they didn't and wouldn't love each other. I mean, Cyrus has LONG been evil so I wasn't that upset to see Michael drag his ass on television, but this whole love thing is nonsense. (Ella is MUCH better off with Michael though. Anyone who takes time to learn to do his Black child's hair is good with me. Cyrus never gave a damn about that child.)

Didn't they even have to convince Michael to go through with the marriage? Like they paid him off and made him sign an NDA about the whole thing?

1 hour ago, reggiejax said:

To be fair, I am pretty certain that in the Scandal-verse, being President is a part time job. Lord knows the Secret Service is. One would think that with a Presidential election still up in the air, that both Cyrus and Mellie would still have Secret Service details. But apparently Cyrus isn't even worth having a guy standing outside his hotel room, and Mellie can freely go to visit evildoers without any security.

But I guess it works out, as how else could Laurie Metcalf Jr feel free to murder Lizzie, and leave the body for Mellie to deal with, if there was even a hint that the Secret Service kept anything but part-time hours?

I guess they know her friend Olivia has a bunch of cleaners on her speed dial?

Edited April 21, 2017 by KaveDweller

[slade3]

10 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I didn't get that Mellie was in on any of it. She seemed really devastated when she lost, I think she really expected to win so hadn't even thought about an evil plot to get around that. I don't think she knew anything until Olivia told her at the beginning of this episode. Most of that happened offscreen, but presumably Olivia told Mellie that Cyrus was innocent, her father was blackmailed into doing it, and the whole point was they wanted to get her into office. And when she heard all that she agreed to drop out, but only until Liz talked to her. After Michael did his interview Mellie realized they were still helping her out and stupidly  thought she could somehow benefit from that without having to actually do anything for them.

I edited this part of my post about 15 minutes before you posted this to write that I'd rewatched the episode and realized I'd made a mistake about Mellie. Maybe you didn't read my entire post. In any case, I agree that she didn't know. I had forgotten Olivia showed her their pictures earlier in the episode.

Edited April 21, 2017 by slade3

[Happytobehere]

This episode reminded me how much I can't stand Mellie and how much I liked her being all but invisible for the last few episodes.  To me, she represents everything that goes wrong with a character and by extension a show when a show runner gets a hard on for an actor or a character who initially has a small role on the show, and expand the role and length of the run when they should have left us with the character in smaller doses.

I loved Cyrus shutting Olivia, out -- naturally Shonda couldn't have that stand.  

I hate Fitz and Olivia and if they are end-game, Shonda will officially be the worst showrunners because... HOW...WHY...WTF

I now how Poppa Pope and Jake are behind all of this and the show ends with them just wiping the whole lot of these horrid people out; turning to the camera and saying, "This is for you longer suffering viewers, bye."

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, Happytobehere said:

This episode reminded me how much I can't stand Mellie and how much I liked her being all but invisible for the last few episodes.  To me, she represents everything that goes wrong with a character and by extension a show when a show runner gets a hard on for an actor or a character who initially has a small role on the show, and expand the role and length of the run when they should have left us with the character in smaller doses.

I loved Cyrus shutting Olivia, out -- naturally Shonda couldn't have that stand.  

I hate Fitz and Olivia and if they are end-game, Shonda will officially be the worst showrunners because... HOW...WHY...WTF

I now how Poppa Pope and Jake are behind all of this and the show ends with them just wiping the whole lot of these horrid people out; turning to the camera and saying, "This is for you longer suffering viewers, bye."

I think sadly Fitz and Olivia are the shows otp. Unless one of the actors wants to leave and Shonda will have to do Greys Anatomy Derek thing. It would probably have to be TG wanting out because if KW wanted out she would probably just end the show, but if TG wanted out she could make that work. She did it on her other show. But yeah my guess is they are the be all end all for this show.

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, slade3 said:

I edited this part of my post about 15 minutes before you posted this to write that I'd rewatched the episode and realized I'd made a mistake about Mellie. Maybe you didn't read my entire post. In any case, I agree that she didn't know. I had forgotten Olivia showed her their pictures earlier in the episode.

I did read your whole post at the time, you must have edited it after I read it, but before I posted my response. This site doesn't notify you when posts you've already read get edited.

3 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

I hate Fitz and Olivia and if they are end-game, Shonda will officially be the worst showrunners because... HOW...WHY...WTF

I hate Fitz and Olivia as well, but I do think they are end-game. The question is, is there anyone who will care?

[J-Man]

On 4/20/2017 at 8:45 PM, FiveByFive said:

Also where the hell was Susan Ross this season? 

She's over at Fox, on "Son of Zorn."

[NeenerNeener]

13 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

This episode reminded me how much I can't stand Mellie and how much I liked her being all but invisible for the last few episodes.  To me, she represents everything that goes wrong with a character and by extension a show when a show runner gets a hard on for an actor or a character who initially has a small role on the show, and expand the role and length of the run when they should have left us with the character in smaller doses.

Ah yes. I felt the same way about Kristin Kreuk on Smallville.

[bara007]

I think Olivia character got somewhat lost, after she had left the White House, living with Fitz, everything she wanted she left behind. While I understood why she had done it, that very well and emotionally played out - suddenly I think her character had nowhere to go after that.

As though her character was going backwards since them, like someone mentioned previously. She making snap decisions at everyturn. Based on no evidence, even not any much of emotion.

She wasn't there even for her team, when they needed her (that was Charlie...).

Also I think that actress suddenly now doesn't know what to act... The others characters I think found each other, and with all the twists are still behaving believably .... i don't know why this always happens when shows which have a main heroine (not hero). The heroine is just abandoned.... Instead of doing some work and trying evolve her character (when the world changes so much around them) - but yes, it is difficult to understand woman:)

 

It made sense that she actually going for Jake, that he makes her a better whole person, she wants to be (I actually though they ended up together last season, what happened?). Now this season she didn't have even one single scene with Jake.

[dr pepper]

*&^%$#@! No!

I do not want to see Olivia as a phony white hat again, that's gone. But even less do i want to see Rowan as an honorary phony white hat. Keep him on ice somewhere off stage, don't consult him on strategy or make use of whatever is left of his network. Just don't!

I also don't want Olivia and Fitz to get back together, again, too many things have happened to their relationship. I also hate that the FBI chief was just sort of slotted in as maîtresse-en-titre, and i hate even more that she was so easily swapped back out.

[byrd]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 3:25 AM, dr pepper said:

*&^%$#@! No!

I do not want to see Olivia as a phony white hat again, that's gone. But even less do i want to see Rowan as an honorary phony white hat. Keep him on ice somewhere off stage, don't consult him on strategy or make use of whatever is left of his network. Just don't!

I also don't want Olivia and Fitz to get back together, again, too many things have happened to their relationship. I also hate that the FBI chief was just sort of slotted in as maîtresse-en-titre, and i hate even more that she was so easily swapped back out.

I agree, I am over the "white Hat ' as well, but there is no replacing Olivia as the love interest for Fitz. That chemistry is just to natural and the FBI Chief did not work in that role..  

[Oblique Angle]

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I also don't want Olivia and Fitz to get back together, again, too many things have happened to their relationship. I also hate that the FBI chief was just sort of slotted in as maîtresse-en-titre, and i hate even more that she was so easily swapped back out.

I feel the same way. The fact that the FBI director was also Black bothered me for some reason, like maybe Fitz had a fetish. Of course, we saw him dating women of several "flavors" so maybe he really is an equal opportunity kind of guy. I'll bet though that he wasn't showing up unannounced at Angela's place whenever he wanted with his contingent of Secret Service officers in tow. She definitely seemed like the type to tell him she don't play that while Olivia all but encourages it.

[slade3]

37 minutes ago, Oblique Angle said:

I feel the same way. The fact that the FBI director was also Black bothered me for some reason, like maybe Fitz had a fetish. Of course, we saw him dating women of several "flavors" so maybe he really is an equal opportunity kind of guy. 

I definitely didn't get a sense that Fitz has a fetish because he slept with Angela Webster. That implies that Black women aren't human since the very definition of "fetish" is an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression. Nothing is psychologically wrong with a person who is attracted to more than one Black woman.  

I think Shonda and her team used to be better when it came to putting together couples that other TV shows would stay away from. Now it feels like they put people together just because no one else would like David Rosen and Liz North, Cyrus and Tom, and Fitz and Angela. The problem with doing that is the characters coming together should be believable and the actors should have some chemistry. 

1 hour ago, Oblique Angle said:

I'll bet though that he wasn't showing up unannounced at Angela's place whenever he wanted with his contingent of Secret Service officers in tow. She definitely seemed like the type to tell him she don't play that while Olivia all but encourages it.

This. I didn't buy Fitz and Angela together because Angela didn't seem like his type.

I think Angela was supposed to be Olivia's age (did they go to school together?), but she seemed older. Or more matronly. Fitz doesn't do matrons.

One of Angela's last lines to Fitz ("Boy, I am the director of the FBI") was an indicator that Angela would not be up for games/angst, late night phone calls and unannounced visits at 2AM.

As far as looks, from what I remember of the women Fitz has slept with, they were all slim. Angela had big breasts and her clothes did not flatter her body type at all. She had a pretty face, but there was nothing about the way she carried herself that indicated Fitz would be attracted to her. This has nothing to do with her race. She didn't seem to have the same self-involved confidence Fitz's other women had. (I would also argue that season 1's Amanda Tanner didn't seem like Fitz's type either, but we never saw them together, so it mattered less. I always thought casting Liza Weil as Amanda Tanner was a mistake because she looked so young and unsophisticated. I've never been able to shake the feeling that Fitz is a perv because of Amanda. Just imagine him feeling up on her, calling her "sweet baby". Like a high school teacher and a cheerleader.)

I've read some thoughts about Olivia's hair on a Tumblr page that had nothing to do with Angela Webster, but Jake vs. Fitz; I think those thoughts can be used on Angela vs. Olivia, too. Olivia never wears her natural hair with Fitz. She has worn it with Jake on the island, and she has imagined herself being rescued by Jake in season 4 with her natural hair. She also let Jake see her with natural hair when they were both living at her father's house. But the only time Olivia has worn natural hair with Fitz was when they showered together (season 2?). And then she was right back to having straightened hair in the next scene when they were in bed together. That may be because Fitz would have asked her what was up with her hair if she had walked into a room with him with the kind of hairstyle Angela Webster sports everyday. I'm not sure if Angela's look is retcon on Shonda's part, or if the writers are trying to let us know that it was never Fitz who couldn't handle natural hair, but Olivia's assumption that Fitz couldn't. 

I've read a lot of comments about Fitz and Angela not working together, which I agree with, but very little about Fitz's type. I'm curious how Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan or Nia Long would have played as Angela. I would have even found Abby a more believable hook up for Fitz.

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, slade3 said:

I'm curious how Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan or Nia Long would have played as Angela.

I don't think any of those beautiful women would have given Fitz the time of day.  Jake, maybe.

[Oblique Angle]

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I definitely didn't get a sense that Fitz has a fetish because he slept with Angela Webster. That implies that Black women aren't human since the very definition of "fetish" is an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression.

That's the medical definition. Culturally there is something called a racial fetishism, most commonly used in reference to Asian women. It also happens to Black men (the assumed out-sized genitalia), so-called "spicy" and oversexed Latinas, and may be increasingly happening to Black women for reasons a Black woman writer comically explained in an article on The Root last year. I meant it as pursuing someone especially because of their race, in way that likely ignores and/or devalues their other attributes.

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Nothing is psychologically wrong with a person who is attracted to more than one Black woman.  

Didn't say there was. But there was something odd to me about how Olivia's never had to give "permission" to any of Fitz's other women yet there was a specific scene with Angela. For some reason, Angela's race did seem to be an issue, IMO, and a link was drawn between her and Olivia because of it. I never got the sense that Angela and Fitz were going to be some great love affair so why did Olivia have to get brought into it? It was all a little odd to me but I'll grant that Fitz probably just likes getting on top of whoever will let him.

Quote

As far as looks, from what I remember of the women Fitz has slept with, they were all slim. Angela had big breasts and her clothes did not flatter her body type at all. She had a pretty face, but there was nothing about the way she carried herself that indicated Fitz would be attracted to her. This has nothing to do with her race.

Or maybe it does. Maybe Fitz was curious to see if all Black women were alike in bed (based on a sample size of two women...). That does happen. I know it's a huge leap though for Scandal and not evidenced by anything we've been shown--so far. It sure would be interesting to me for Olivia to ask Fitz about Angela. She must be curious about what attracted him to her.

[slade3]

8 hours ago, Oblique Angle said:

Didn't say there was. But there was something odd to me about how Olivia's never had to give "permission" to any of Fitz's other women yet there was a specific scene with Angela. For some reason, Angela's race did seem to be an issue, IMO, and a link was drawn between her and Olivia because of it. I never got the sense that Angela and Fitz were going to be some great love affair so why did Olivia have to get brought into it? It was all a little odd to me but I'll grant that Fitz probably just likes getting on top of whoever will let him.

I know you didn't say there was, but statements like "maybe Fitz had a fetish" can lead to the belief that there is. I probably would have commented differently if you had originally specified "racial fetishism". I still wouldn't have agreed, but it would have made me feel differently. Thanks for the link to Maiysha Kai's piece.

I thought the scene between Angela and Olivia had more to do with the writers trying to portray "sisterhood" in the "work place." This show is never subtle and Shonda very clearly has certain agendas she tries to push forward that include diversity, body image equality and friendships between women. In a perfect world, women who know each other would never date each other's former flames without consulting each other first. Here, I assumed, the writers were showing us that a Black woman in such a high profile position as FBI Director would never pursue a man (PotUS, no less) without consulting the other Black woman he dated, especially since they know each other. She would not want her to be blindsided. I don't think their scene had anything to do with Fitz. 

I think that scene was also necessary because Olivia was keeping Angela busy while Jake interviewed McClintock, but I believe Abby would have asked for Olivia's permission to date Fitz if they had gone that route, too.

10 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I don't think any of those beautiful women would have given Fitz the time of day.  Jake, maybe.

Jake, for sure. But Fitz is the President. Presidents, I've heard, tend to exude a power and charm, no matter how horrible they may be. But I meant that the way Gabrielle Union would have carried herself would have been more like Kerry Washington, and I could see Fitz noticing her.

Edited April 25, 2017 by slade3

[Kathcart]

Quote

maîtresse-en-titre

Ooh! Thanks for the new fancy phrase! 

On another note: why can't Fitz have the new bad guys rounded up and thrown in The Hole forever?