The 13th Doctor: S/he ain't here yet.

[Llywela]

It's funny. Before the announcement came, I was adamant, at the back of my mind, that I did not want a female Doctor. Despite all the very recent and rather superficial, buzzword-like on-screen blather about gender designations, switching gender did not seem like something the Doctor would do, this many regenerations into his existence. And it seemed like something that would inevitably come across as a gimmick – as Missy always has. Yet now the announcement has been made, I primarily feel the urge to defend her against all comers! And I'm much more relaxed about the casting than I expected to be. It helps, I think, that she isn't going to be written by Moffat, who has an awful track record – but more than that, it helps, I think, that she is coming into the show with a head writer she has a pre-existing working relationship with. I don't know what Chibnall's Doctor Who is going to look like, but I trust him to treat his lead actress with respect.

Mind, if he was going to bring someone across from Broadchurch, I'd have preferred Andy Buchan (who had a very Doctor-ish vibe in The Last Dragonslayer!) but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't touch the role with a bargepole, he likes to keep a much lower profile!

I like Jodie Whittaker and care about the show, so I wish her well in the role – this is a huge risk both for her and the show, and I really want them to pull it off, now that the die is cast!

I also really want Thirteen to have the personality of a gruff but cuddly granddad wrapped up in the body of this young woman!

I'm just glad she isn't going to be written by Moffat, because I'm 99% certain he'd say she chose to regenerate as a woman because of Missy.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Llywela

[starri]

7 minutes ago, Llywela said:

switching gender did not seem like something the Doctor would do, this many regenerations into his existence. And it seemed like something that would inevitably come across as a gimmick – as Missy always has. Yet now the announcement has been made, I primarily feel the urge to defend her against all comers!

But the Doctor doesn't control his/her regenerations.

YMMV, but I never found Missy gimmicky.  Michelle Gomez was a lot more appealing to me than John Simm (although he'd calmed down a little in "World Enough and Time"/"The Doctor Falls"), and I'm really sad that she chose to leave rather than have the opportunity to play material written by someone other than Moffat.

As much as I really liked Capaldi, I couldn't stomach Peak Moffat and only tuned in when the post-show reaction was strong.  I was honestly prepared to check out completely, but I'm in now.

Edited July 16, 2017 by starri

[call me ishmael]

See, all we jas to do was get past Moffat and something interesting happens.  I'm shocked but am very pleased.  Although i never liked Broadchurch.

[HauntedBathroom]

I'm really  stunned by the ammount of perople saying "Now Moffat's gone, and the man who gave us Tiorchwood season 1 and 2 is in charge, we'll be getting some good stuff!" Chibnall's cast a Doctor that ;looks very interesting, but he's going to have to work extremely hard to wipe the memory of Cyberlady, the hideous Gwen Cooper and Doctor Data Rape out.

[Llywela]

2 minutes ago, starri said:

But the Doctor doesn't control his/her regenerations.

I dunno, fourteen white men in a row seems like a definite regenerative trend, to me - it's a very set pattern to change at this stage of the character's existence! Which is why I'm glad Moffat won't be writing the regeneration aftermath, because I just know he'd say the Doctor was influenced by Missy - who I really did find enormously gimmicky, Michelle Gomez did a great job, but the way the character was written was awful. But I'm on board to find out who Thirteen is going to be, once we get to see her on-screen, and to find out what Chibnall's vision of Doctor Who is going to be like. I like Jodie Whittaker, I really want this to work!

[starri]

Just now, Llywela said:

I dunno, fourteen white men in a row seems like a definite regenerative trend, to me

Sure.  A trend driven by less enlightened producers and executives.

The idea that the Time Lords could change genders was established at least in the Smith era and possibly even before.  I think Missy even said at one point that she didn't remember what genders she and the Doctor had been when they were kids.

[Lokiberry]

I was disappointed for like 3 minutes, and then I saw the trailer with Jodie and got really excited and happy. That's pretty good for me; I was pissed off about Matt Smith for all the months between the announcement and his first episode.

This feels right. It feels like the change the show desperately needs. And, all the howling about how this Woman is going to kill Doctor Who dead warms the cockles of my cold, black heart. You know, you can judge a person by  their enemies, and if that's the case, Jodie's doing all right.

[Occasional Hope]

Short interview with JW whoch sounds more promising:

http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/16/jodie-whitaker-has-been-named-as-the-new-doctor-who-6782581/#ixzz4n0kyvMTT

[catrox14]

Didn't 11/Smith ask "Am I a woman?" when he touched his longer hair after he regenerated.  That tells me that Time Lords/Ladies don't know what gender they will be after regeneration. 

I didn't like Gwen Cooper at all in Torchwood but I put that on Davies more than Chibnall.  I thought Gwen was perfectly fine in the first episode of Torchwood and then in a few s2 episodes where she could have been a really interesting, burdened, conflicted kind of asshole character but alas she never really suffered any consequences for her actions and by the end of Miracle Day she was just ridiculously OTT and "BADASS".  I don't think Chibnall will do that with 13. I think he'll play it much more even handed as it can be for The Doctor. 

My biggest worry with a female Doctor is that she'll end up pregnant or saddled with a child for some reason. (Not that there is anything wrong with children or motherhood)  Of course with Moffat that was much more likely given his weird penchant that "Motherhood" is the only thing that makes women better or something. Whatever.  Just don't go there with 13, please.

Edited July 16, 2017 by catrox14

[Mabinogia]

When I saw the announcement in the Broadchurch forum I thought it was a joke. But wow, Chibnall had the balls to do it. I'm impressed. I was afraid they'd be too worried about scaring off all the little manbabies (love that one) who can't handle a female doctor.

While I'm not sure Jodie Whittaker would have been my first choice (Olivia Coleman would have been, if we were going with a Broadchurch broad, or hell, the woman who is playing the lead this season is pretty impressive) but I do think Jodie is a great actress (her Broadchurch character sucks, but she does a great job acting an often unlikeable characters). I just think she reads as more soft spoken and a bit average, which is great, but I always picture the Doctor as a more larger than life type.

I am going to be interested to see how the Doctor's personality is affected by the casting choice, and also who is going to be her first companion. this could be very interesting, so long as she is nothing like that odious Gwen Cooper.

 

Edited because I just read that interview and I love her answers. Now I'm really excited. This is going to be a very interesting and exciting time to be a Who fan.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Mabinogia

[TwirlyGirly]

Not responsible for damage to keyboards while reading the following:

 

"Fictional Time Travellers Don't Have Vaginas, Insist Morons"  http://newsthump.com/2017/07/16/fictional-time-travellers-dont-have-vaginas-insist-morons/

[Mabinogia]

That was pretty bad, but this was the best quote "The Doctor has a long history of not using his penis to resolve issues across time and space, and we’re confident that Jodie Whittaker will have no issues in continuing that fine tradition.”

[cardigirl]

Aw jeez, so the fact that I am, in fact, disappointed in the new doctor who choice must mean I'm a whiny manbaby? I didn't care for the Ghostbusters reboot, not because the characters were women, but because the storyline sucked and the movie was a disappointment. I have concerns about the show runner Chibnall, because the second and third seasons of Broadchurch were awful! I'll watch to see how the show goes, I may end up loving it, but for now, the woman in me is disappointed that the storyline has chosen to follow this path. 

[Morrigan2575]

I quit Doctor Who Because I got tired of Moffat. I was already prepared to come back once a new show runner took over. Now, I'm really curious to see how they handle a female Doctor.

[whoknowswho]

Well, damn.

I'm a woman. I was born one and will die one, but I absolutely do not want Doctor Who to be a woman. I don't think it' brave, I think it's catering to the politically correct.  

Just now, cardigirl said:

Aw jeez, so the fact that I am, in fact, disappointed in the new doctor who choice must mean I'm a whiny manbaby? I didn't care for the Ghostbusters reboot, not because the characters were women, but because the storyline sucked and the movie was a disappointment. I have concerns about the show runner Chibnall, because the second and third seasons of Broadchurch were awful! I'll watch to see how the show goes, I may end up loving it, but for now, the woman in me is disappointed that the storyline has chosen to follow this path. 

No, you are not alone. I'm not a manbaby either, but I am just not happy today over this.  I've been watching the whole reboot again, and loving it to 12, I haven't rewatched his episodes yet. I'm done--I think this is a mistake because the Doctor is a male charactor, or was at least till now--now I imagine we'll have to listen to PMS problems and hormonal shit, and it will kill Doctor Who for me. 

Damn. 

[LiveenLetLive]

So will the companion be a woman too? probably not, I will be curious to see who that might be--if it were I, I'd go with a teenager for the companion--if male this will solve any "sexual attraction" issues, and either a young male or female will be set up to be mentored by the Doctor.  I like having the Doctor be a male, I honestly don't see a problem continuing with that tradition but I certainly will give JW a chance.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Aw jeez, so the fact that I am, in fact, disappointed in the new doctor who choice must mean I'm a whiny manbaby? I didn't care for the Ghostbusters reboot, not because the characters were women, but because the storyline sucked and the movie was a disappointment. I have concerns about the show runner Chibnall, because the second and third seasons of Broadchurch were awful! I'll watch to see how the show goes, I may end up loving it, but for now, the woman in me is disappointed that the storyline has chosen to follow this path. 

If your beef with this choice is not based on 13 being a female, then you're probably not falling into that particular subset. :)

[cardigirl]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

If your beef with this choice is not based on 13 being a female, then you're probably not falling into that particular subset. :)

Well, I would rather have a man, so maybe I am a whiny woman.  Haha. Have to wait til December to find out if I'll like her portrayal. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by cardigirl

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, whoknowswho said:

e--I think this is a mistake because the Doctor is a male charactor, or was at least till now--now I imagine we'll have to listen to PMS problems and hormonal shit, and it will kill Doctor Who for me. 

 

Did the Doctor run around driven by his hormones to screw everything in sight or the older Doctors were experiencing symptoms of low testerone or even impotence? Many women don't experience PMS so there is no real reason for the show to even address this on screen. 

[Chip]

I don't think I really need to say this because the Doctor Who forum is generally a very friendly place. But there are going to be some strong opinions about the new casting so remember to be respectful towards each other.

[supposebly]

I haven't watched in years. First because I hated Clara, then because I just couldn't deal with Moffat's stuff anymore due to Sherlock And Who, so I might pop in and watch this one next year since this is huge, I think.

A traditionally non-sexualized character (except for Ten, I'd say) played by a woman who have notoriously been sexualized on screen. I hope the writing will be up to par.

[whoknowswho]

Just now, catrox14 said:

 

Did the Doctor run around driven by his hormones to screw everything in sight or the older Doctors were experiencing symptoms of low testerone or even impotence? Many women don't experience PMS so there is no real reason for the show to even address this on screen. 

No, but Missy suddenly developed a conscience--from the insane, hateful Master--we get tears from Missy. I don't trust the show writers to not play it this way. I don't. I imagine we'll get a male companion to keep the female fans engaged, too. I am not happy--I've watched Doctor who since I was born the 60s, (casually, I am not a born Whovian like my sister) but  I am not happy today.  I'm allowed to be disappointed, I think they did it for political correctness, and for me, it sucks. 

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, LiveenLetLive said:

So will the companion be a woman too? probably not, I will be curious to see who that might be--if it were I, I'd go with a teenager for the companion--if male this will solve any "sexual attraction" issues, and either a young male or female will be set up to be mentored by the Doctor.  I like having the Doctor be a male, I honestly don't see a problem continuing with that tradition but I certainly will give JW a chance.

I'm curious how old 13 will be.  Will she be 900 years old or 1250? If she's 1250 years old then maybe she'll be cantankerous and grumpy LOL but happy to be alive and still be weird like Capaldi.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, whoknowswho said:

No, but Missy suddenly developed a conscience--from the insane, hateful Master--we get tears from Missy.

I dunno, Ten was pretty weepy himself.  I think of emotional Missy as being the counterpart to the more emotional 10. I think Missy developed a conscience because of her time in solitary confinement and the influence of 12 which made her emotions come out, not because she regenerated as a woman. 

[whoknowswho]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I dunno, Ten was pretty weepy himself.  I think of emotional Missy as being the counterpart to the more emotional 10. I think Missy developed a conscience because of her time in solitary confinement and the influence of 12 which made her emotions come out, not because she regenerated as a woman. 

I loved Missy--she was brilliant, but then I loved 10, too. And 9, and 11. And sort of 12, at least some of the time. I'm just not happy, and no amount of telling me how good it'll be can make me less unhappy.  Will this young, pretty woman capture the age and anger and angst we've come to know in our Doctors? I don't know--I'm not British and I don't know the actress.

We've had lesbian companions, we've had Captain Jack Harkness and his shifting sexuality--does anyone think this will not be sexualized in some way? Anyone? I know Moffat is gone, but his pall will still hang over the show.  They've lost me.  The only ageless people in Doctor Who are all women--Ashildr/Me, Clara, and now--this new actress as 13.  Bah. 

[ichbin]

Nope, not liking this turn of events at all.  I see the choice  as being deliberately provactive as a publicity grab in combination with bowing to the politically correct.  I don't see the trend of male Doctors for 50+ years as signifying time for a change, rather I see it as being something which has worked well to persevere and maintain a fan base unlike that of the majority of television shows which have ever been produced.  Having said that, if they did insist on casting a woman, why Jodie Whittaker?  Even though I would prefer the Doctor remain male, I must admit that actresses like Olivia Colman or Phoebe Waller Bridge would have been well suited to the role as each is good at blending humor with pathos.  I was really hoping for Kris Marshall who I felt would would be able to portray the traits of many of the most popular Doctors of the past.  

[cardigirl]

I wonder how all the fans who disliked Clara will feel about a woman Doctor? Maybe it's a different thing, but many people disliked Clara's 'take-charge' or bossy ways, and felt she grabbed too much power. I liked Clara and thought of her as a strong 'empowered' character, so maybe I am ready for a female Doctor. Have to wait and see.  

[theredhead77]

I'm super excited about this casting. It's about time little girls can see that they too can grow up to be a fictional time traveler.
Seriously though, I barely hung on through Clara, became re-engaged this season and am stoked for the new writer and the new Doctor. I would have liked to see Capaldi for another Clara-free season but since we can't have that, I'm totally happy with this path.

[Mabinogia]

3 minutes ago, whoknowswho said:

Will this young, pretty woman capture the age and anger and angst we've come to know in our Doctors? I don't know--I'm not British and I don't know the actress.

For a character like the Doctor, who is not ruled by his gender, I just don't see why people would care. I care more about WHO is playing the Doctor, not their sex, but their skill. I think Jodie will capture anger and angst way better than some of the men who have played the roll. And it might be interesting to see the Baddies on the show underestimating her because she's a young, pretty woman (like some fans already are, not saying you, IDK you're reasons for being anti-female Doctor) but they are already out there, thinking she can't be the Doctor because she's a girl.

It's not brave in that it's some revolutionary concept but brave because, clearly, it is alienating a large number of viewers who might turn away costing them ratings. In this TV day and age it is always brave for a show to go against a portion of their fans' wishes.

[Mabinogia]

7 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I wonder how all the fans who disliked Clara will feel about a woman Doctor? Maybe it's a different thing, but many people disliked Clara's 'take-charge' or bossy ways, and felt she grabbed too much power. I liked Clara and thought of her as a strong 'empowered' character, so maybe I am ready for a female Doctor. Have to wait and see.  

To me Clara was a different case. She was a 20 something human teacher trying to boss around a 1000 year old Time Lord. I might have liked Clara better had she been the Doctor. At least then her know it all behavior would have had something backing it up. I never saw her as empowered. She seemed more like an entitled little snot who had no interest in learning from someone older and wiser than her. Now, had she been a 1000 year old Time Lord, that characterization would have actually worked.

[MrWhyt]

11 minutes ago, ichbin said:

 I don't see the trend of male Doctors for 50+ years as signifying time for a change, rather I see it as being something which has worked well to persevere and maintain a fan base unlike that of the majority of television shows which have ever been produced. 

right because people were tuning in to see the Doctor's wang. The Doctor is a centuries old shape shifting time travelling alien, how is being "Outwardly shaped like a human male" essential to the character?

Edited July 16, 2017 by MrWhyt

[MissLucas]

Not going to lie, I would have preferred a man. But it will be interesting to see how this pans out. I was also not convinced turning Watson into a woman was a great idea and now I love Lucy Liu on Elementary. Unfortunately I'm already a bit disappointed to read that this is not her definitive costume as I love that coat. Keep the coat 13!

[dippydee]

I'm excited about the casting. I was kind of losing interest in Moffatt's 'vision' so a change of showrunner and a female Doctor seems like a great way to start again for the show. I hope they can pull it off. It also helps that I've liked Jodie Whitaker in everything I've seen her in, especially her episode of Black Mirror and Attack The Block. And St Trinians of course ;)

Edited July 16, 2017 by dippydee
Typos

[clack]

When the gender-swapped 'Ghostbusters' bombed, the studio quietly shelved plans for future installments, and everyone ideologically invested in the film's success or failure moved on to the next internet controversy.

But this? This is a commitment. If the new series bombs, the BBC can't very well say that giving a woman the role was a mistake and replace Whittaker, after a year, with a man. They'll have to stick it out for at least 2, probably 3 years.

Even if Whittaker doesn't bomb, but brings in the same ratings that Capaldi has -- when it comes her turn to regenerate, could the BBC then replace her with a white man without facing political backlash?

This is a ballsy (so to speak) move on the BBCs part, putting their international flagship show so at risk.

[Casual Viewing]

I admit that when the first suggestions came out that 13 might be a woman, my mind immediately  rebelled at the idea. But after seeing that reveal clip I've become intrigued and am looking forward to seeing the next season.

Making the Doctor a woman should open up all kinds of new opportunities  for  the series to explore. If the writing is good, the stories interesting and well acted, who cares if 13 is in a female form? We are after all talking about an alien species that regenerates.  

[Daisy]

48 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Aw jeez, so the fact that I am, in fact, disappointed in the new doctor who choice must mean I'm a whiny manbaby? I didn't care for the Ghostbusters reboot, not because the characters were women, but because the storyline sucked and the movie was a disappointment. I have concerns about the show runner Chibnall, because the second and third seasons of Broadchurch were awful! I'll watch to see how the show goes, I may end up loving it, but for now, the woman in me is disappointed that the storyline has chosen to follow this path. 

You're not alone. I have been called a special snowflake, a sexist, and racist (because i argued I'd feel just as grumpy if they had casted a person of colour). very ironic as i am indeed a woman of colour. 

 

4 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I'm super excited about this casting. It's about time little girls can see that they too can grow up to be a fictional time traveler.
Seriously though, I barely hung on through Clara, became re-engaged this season and am stoked for the new writer and the new Doctor. I would have liked to see Capaldi for another Clara-free season but since we can't have that, I'm totally happy with this path.

why do we need a woman - to show we can too can grow up to be a fictional time traveler? 

(i'm legitimately curious about this because I see this referenced all the time). when I was growing up, I wanted to be Columbo.. And then Quincey.  and Batman.. I was actually confused when they introduced Barbara Gordon as Batgirl because I thought anyone could just be Batman. the gender wasn't important. the character was. The story was. 

So I don't know why a little girl, when dreaming, can't dream about being the Doctor... if the doctor was David Tennant or Peter Chiarelli. Why does it trigger a dream now that it's a Jodie Whittaker? 

 

40 minutes ago, whoknowswho said:

Well, damn.

I'm a woman. I was born one and will die one, but I absolutely do not want Doctor Who to be a woman. I don't think it' brave, I think it's catering to the politically correct.  

No, you are not alone. I'm not a manbaby either, but I am just not happy today over this.  I've been watching the whole reboot again, and loving it to 12, I haven't rewatched his episodes yet. I'm done--I think this is a mistake because the Doctor is a male charactor, or was at least till now--now I imagine we'll have to listen to PMS problems and hormonal shit, and it will kill Doctor Who for me. 

Damn. 

not alone and my fear too.

 

7 minutes ago, ichbin said:

Nope, not liking this turn of events at all.  I see the choice  as being deliberately provactive as a publicity grab in combination with bowing to the politically correct.  I don't see the trend of male Doctors for 50+ years as signifying time for a change, rather I see it as being something which has worked well to persevere and maintain a fan base unlike that of the majority of television shows which have ever been produced.  Having said that, if they did insist on casting a woman, why Jodie Whittaker?  Even though I would prefer the Doctor remain male, I must admit that actresses like Olivia Colman or Phoebe Waller Bridge would have been well suited to the role as each is good at blending humor with pathos.  I was really hoping for Kris Marshall who I felt would would be able to portray the traits of many of the most popular Doctors of the past.  

 

i agree with you completely. 

 

5 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I wonder how all the fans who disliked Clara will feel about a woman Doctor? Maybe it's a different thing, but many people disliked Clara's 'take-charge' or bossy ways, and felt she grabbed too much power. I liked Clara and thought of her as a strong 'empowered' character, so maybe I am ready for a female Doctor. Have to wait and see.  

My glitch with Clara was.. well. that she was Clara. She wasn't written well (at all) for me.  

the thing for me is and I hope I articulate right. I don't "see" the Doctor as a man. So when people want to go (not you - just people in general) - they don't want Uteruses in their Sci-Fi, it makes me really angry. Because that's not true at all. I loved Xena (and for the most part, Xena was seen as "sci-fi". I really liked Jadzia Dax, Kira Neryse and Seven of Nine and Zoe from Firefly (who was kick-ass), and Kaylee too. when she made sense I liked Janeway. to make this more Whovian, I hated Rose, but I loved Martha. I ADORED Donna, and I didn't mind season 5 Amy. (Season six is when everything really just ticked me off about the show). So it's not that. 

And I don't "want" my Doctor to be a man. (or i don't "need" him to be either). Because I don't really "see" the Doctor as a man.  The Doctor is a very lonely being who lost his family (I'm really behind so i have zero idea what's going on with Gallifrey or whatever), lost his people, can't find his people and needs human (sometimes other worldly) companions) to keep him grounded because he is quite capable of destroying the world. walks a fine line between insane and sane, sadistic and humanitarian, overlord and submissive. incredibly brilliant and incredibly thickheaded. the Doctor is Alien, and also the most human among us. 

And that takes a really deft pen to try to not make it into a caricature. (most times a success while with Moffat i feel not so much).. 

NOTHING in the backstory of the doctor even including Rose Love story kissing the companions etc, his family (note Doctor always says "i lost my family." not "my wife and children") denotes he's male or female in a race that can indeed choose to be whatever they want to be. 

BUT. My fear - and even with new writing coming in - I don't know if the writing will be good enough to NOT make the Doctor a woman if this makes sense. Like can they go an entire series (Jodie Whittaker's entire run even) without making cracks about her gender? Can they write Jodie's Doctor and not have her come off as a bitch (unless it needs to be as there were times where the doctor was a right old bastard ). Strong women characters need two things (imo). Good acting. Good writing. I don't know Jodie, but I know they wouldn't cast her for a role of this magnitude without some acting chops. Is the writing (From ALL staff there)? I don't know. Is Chris a good enough show runner to ensure it doesnt' become a Gimmick? I don't know either. 

And THAT'S what's upsetting me. 
Not the fact that my Doctor's a Woman now. 
but that my Doctor can easily become a gimmick - and I think the Doctor and this show deserves better than that. 
And I would say that if this was a Doctor of colour. 

I just feel they are doing this - so they can say they "did it." not because it makes sense to the story, and everything else that this can and should be.. and I feel saying it's 2017 (again not you - the general world out there) is not a good enough reason to throw gimmicks into a story.

 

I really v. much want to be wrong, and I hope I am. I haven't decided if I want to (finish) season 9, watch 10, and be ready for the regeneration. we'll see. 

[aliferous85]

Quote

BUT. My fear - and even with new writing coming in - I don't know if the writing will be good enough to NOT make the Doctor a woman if this makes sense. Like can they go an entire series (Jodie Whittaker's entire run even) without making cracks about her gender?

First thing out of her mouth after regenerating: Still.Not.Ginger.

Second thing out of her mouth after regenerating: Boobs. Interesting.

And then we're off for the rest of the series.

If Chris Chibnall is worth his salt, he'll avoid the Woman!Tropes.

 

Quote

Strong women characters need two things (imo). Good acting. Good writing. I don't know Jodie, but I know they wouldn't cast her for a role of this magnitude without some acting chops. Is the writing (From ALL staff there)? I don't know. Is Chris a good enough show runner to ensure it doesnt' become a Gimmick? I don't know either. 

You do know they didn't just randomly pick her up from the street, right?

For all your other concerns: see Broadchurch.

 

[starri]

13 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Because I don't really "see" the Doctor as a man.

If that's the case, why does it matter what set of plumbing the actor has?

[theredhead77]

14 minutes ago, Daisy said:

You're not alone. I have been called a special snowflake, a sexist, and racist (because i argued I'd feel just as grumpy if they had casted a person of colour). very ironic as i am indeed a woman of colour. 

why do we need a woman - to show we can too can grow up to be a fictional time traveler? 

(i'm legitimately curious about this because I see this referenced all the time). when I was growing up, I wanted to be Columbo.. And then Quincey.  and Batman.. I was actually confused when they introduced Barbara Gordon as Batgirl because I thought anyone could just be Batman. the gender wasn't important. the character was. The story was. 

So I don't know why a little girl, when dreaming, can't dream about being the Doctor... if the doctor was David Tennant or Peter Chiarelli. Why does it trigger a dream now that it's a Jodie Whittaker? 

BUT. My fear - and even with new writing coming in - I don't know if the writing will be good enough to NOT make the Doctor a woman if this makes sense. Like can they go an entire series (Jodie Whittaker's entire run even) without making cracks about her gender? Can they write Jodie's Doctor and not have her come off as a bitch (unless it needs to be as there were times where the doctor was a right old bastard ). Strong women characters need two things (imo). Good acting. Good writing. I don't know Jodie, but I know they wouldn't cast her for a role of this magnitude without some acting chops. Is the writing (From ALL staff there)? I don't know. Is Chris a good enough show runner to ensure it doesnt' become a Gimmick? I don't know either. 

And THAT'S what's upsetting me. 
Not the fact that my Doctor's a Woman now. 
but that my Doctor can easily become a gimmick - and I think the Doctor and this show deserves better than that. 
And I would say that if this was a Doctor of colour. 

I just feel they are doing this - so they can say they "did it." not because it makes sense to the story, and everything else that this can and should be.. and I feel saying it's 2017 (again not you - the general world out there) is not a good enough reason to throw gimmicks into a story.

I'm not  going to engage in the kids identify with role-models who  look like them discussion. It seems you are pissed the Doctor is a woman and are looking for an argument instead of a discussion.

What criteria will determine if the Whittaker's doctor is being a "bitch"? Imagining any of the previous 12teen doctors reacting the same way? Or will anything that portrays her as a leader with a very strong opinion and sharp tone, who often makes questionable decisions classify her as being a bitch?

How cool would it be if they got Barrowman to reprise Capt Jack and have the new Doc turn him down because she's gay so instead they carry on with some adventures? OMG a gay, female doctor. Who am I kidding, I just want to see Barrowman back on my TV.

The way things are always done does not make a good argument for the way things always need to be.

[Daisy]

8 minutes ago, starri said:

If that's the case, why does it matter what set of plumbing the actor has?

as i said, because for the most part - (why i got into Who), the writing is strong. 
if the writing devolves into a lot of Women Tropes, then it 100 percent matters. 

that's what i am more focused on. the writing

[call me ishmael]

7 minutes ago, Daisy said:

as i said, because for the most part - (why i got into Who), the writing is strong. 
if the writing devolves into a lot of Women Tropes, then it 100 percent matters. 

that's what i am more focused on. the writing

Well the writing would be crucial if the Doctor remained male as well.  Personally as an old (in both senses of the word) Whovian i haven't liked the more emo elements of NuWho to begin with and would love it if Chibnall used this as an opportunity to pull back from that tendency.  Less histrionics would be nice.  Missy was simply a development from Simms.  I like Simms as a character but i could have done with less hysteria in the character.

 

i see this an an opportunity.  There are all sorts of issues that could be explored in the question of whether anyone she meets really cares.  What if no one notices? What if they do? And once the show works through those issues and she figures out who she is (as all Doctors have to) then they can have normal adventures.  I agree with the Lucy Liu comparison.  It looked like a gimmick but it wasn't.  Cumberbatch is more of a gimmick than Liu is if you want to talk about changing the essence of the character.

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, theredhead77 said:

I'm not  going to engage in the kids identify with role-models who  look like them discussion. It seems you are pissed the Doctor is a woman and are looking for an argument instead of a discussion.

What criteria will determine if the Whittaker's doctor is being a "bitch"? Imagining any of the previous 12teen doctors reacting the same way? Or will anything that portrays her as a leader with a very strong opinion and sharp tone, who often makes questionable decisions classify her as being a bitch?

How cool would it be if they got Barrowman to reprise Capt Jack and have the new Doc turn him down because she's gay so instead they carry on with some adventures? OMG a gay, female doctor. Who am I kidding, I just want to see Barrowman back on my TV.

The way things are always done does not make a good argument for the way things always need to be.

i would argue the same ways that sometimes the doctor would do something and you'd think "he's a right old bastard."  - off the top of my head:
Capaldi forcing Clara to choose Earth vs. the Moon/Egg thing.

Smith telling Liz 10 and Amy to shut up because he needed to kill the Star Whale, then moan how he couldn't be the doctor, and Amy basically had to tell him to shut it and look at the other side of the coin 

The Ninth/War Doctor deciding well he had enough and he was going to just destroy Gallifrey without talking to anyone. 

(and I had to double back and make sure I did say that when the Doctor did act like a bastard, and I did). So it's not. one set for Jodie one set for the other 12. which -is what I said. 

re: kids identifying with people who look like them - like  I I  mentioned. when I was growing up - as a little girl of colour, I wanted to be a myriad of things - and none of them looked like me. so, I am always curious why people feel the opposite. If you feel that is picking an argument, my apologises, it truly wasn't. 

As some people have said - it seems that the casting is done for politically correctness. I'm sure (really) there could be other new and interesting stories to tell with having a Female Doctor (hopefully not dissolving into juvenile behaviour, just like when it happens with any of the Doctors i've watched I'd be like really? necessary?)  And I am writing my POV at a disadvantage, being really behind in the show, (why? because I thought the writing was really poorly done and it became a chore to watch).  If Jodie Whittaker and Chris Chiball (I hope I spelled his name right), can re-capture what I liked about Who (minus the Histrionics) I will gladly, from the rooftops say I was wrong. 

As some pointed out -the best example of this (a gender-re-imagining in an established role) was Lucy Liu being "Watson" on Elementary. I honestly don't remember what my reaction was, but i really like Lucy Liu, so I was intrigued. and While I stopped watching that series, I think most people's 'biggest fear' is what a lot of not good writers tend to do. hook up the opposite characters. From the few seasons I watched that never ever happened on Elementary.  I honestly hope the same thing happens here.  

 

[benteen]

I was hoping the Doctor would stay a man.  To me, the Doctor is a man like Wonder Woman is a woman and Harry Potter is British (this is a reference to Steven Spielberg's asinine idea to do an American Harry Potter).  I know Chibnall said he wanted a female Doctor but I strongly believe the BBC would have been too terrified of the backlash from SJW's to cast another man as the Doctor.  Approaching most thing from a PC standpoint is a recipe for disaster. 

That being said, it's an interesting change and I'm curious what kind of stories this will to.  I've seen Jodie Whittaker on Broadchurch and she was really good in it.  She's worked with Chibnall for the last three years so there's a familiarity there.  I've always found the acting on Broadchurch to be really good despite having an average to pedestrian storyline at best.

I hope a female Doctor avoids obvious stereotypes although this does go into new territory for the Doctor.  13 will have to deal with rampant sexism when she travels back to the past, where women were viewed as little more than property of their husbands or wives. 

I imagine a female Doctor almost guarantees the next companion will be a man.  If you're going to shake up the status quo by making the Doctor a woman, then make the companion a man.  Or at the very least a man and a female.  No doubt that will make the love triangle fans go crazy, even if the male and female companions are in a relationship with one another.

The one thing a female Doctor has going for her is that Steven Moffat will NOT be writing her.  His female characters are TERRIBLE and Moffat has been prone to the occasional sexist attitudes and comments himself.  His treatment and comments on the Molly Hooper character in Sherlock being a prime example.

Am I happy with this change?  No.  But I'm willing to give it a chance and see where it goes.  It's definitely something different and maybe it will give the show the spark it's been needing for a long time.

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, benteen said:

I was hoping the Doctor would stay a man.  To me, the Doctor is a man like Wonder Woman is a woman and Harry Potter is British (this is a reference to Steven Spielberg's asinine idea to do an American Harry Potter).  I know Chibnall said he wanted a female Doctor but I strongly believe the BBC would have been too terrified of the backlash from SJW's to cast another man as the Doctor.  Approaching most thing from a PC standpoint is a recipe for disaster. 

That being said, it's an interesting change and I'm curious what kind of stories this will to.  I've seen Jodie Whittaker on Broadchurch and she was really good in it.  She's worked with Chibnall for the last three years so there's a familiarity there.  I've always found the acting on Broadchurch to be really good despite having an average to pedestrian storyline at best.

I hope a female Doctor avoids obvious stereotypes although this does go into new territory for the Doctor.  13 will have to deal with rampant sexism when she travels back to the past, where women were viewed as little more than property of their husbands or wives. 

I imagine a female Doctor almost guarantees the next companion will be a man.  If you're going to shake up the status quo by making the Doctor a woman, then make the companion a man.  Or at the very least a man and a female.  No doubt that will make the love triangle fans go crazy, even if the male and female companions are in a relationship with one another.

The one thing a female Doctor has going for her is that Steven Moffat will NOT be writing her.  His female characters are TERRIBLE and Moffat has been prone to the occasional sexist attitudes and comments himself.  His treatment and comments on the Molly Hooper character in Sherlock being a prime example.

Am I happy with this change?  No.  But I'm willing to give it a chance and see where it goes.  It's definitely something different and maybe it will give the show the spark it's been needing for a long time.

I'd reckon that to be the case (Female Doctor, Male Companion). (though it would be interesting to see a Female Companion/Female Doctor. (just like I always wanted to see in NewWho a Male Doctor/Male Companion. how Rory + Eleven interacted was always interesting and I always wanted someone else in that role without "an Amy" (as the first little while it was always a "Rory vs. Eleven" battle. 

the second point - great point. very true. 

[TexasGal]

British peeps - did they do a song and dance intro like they did with Capaldi or did they just show that clip? 

Edited July 16, 2017 by TexasGal

[Occasional Hope]

Just that clip in between post-tennis chat and the next match.

[aliferous85]

I missed the original announcement. Because I wasn't about to guess when a tennis match actually ends. They usually don't.

Got to Twitter and word was already out in well, spectacular fashion. 

[Mabinogia]

If Chinball goes more Ellie Miller and less Gwen Cooper I'll be extremely happy. My hope is, the Doctor will get a kick out of being a woman (finally or again depending on the part of his history we haven't seen), will be less angsty, less manic (I think choosing Jodie is a point in that direction as she just seems like a calmer, more grounded presence then intense Twelve, hyper Eleven or emo Ten. I hope she has a bit of mischief to her, which the promo kind of implies.

What I am afraid of is that they make her too "maternal". I don't want her with a young male companion because I fear it will be too much mommy and her precocious son. It would actually be fascinating to give her a female companion but then the manbabies (and no, manbabies are not just the people who don't want a female Doctor. It's the fanboys who cry out any time a female takes any attention away from a comic or sci fi "hero". I haven't seen anyone on here who qualifies. They are the same people who hated The Force Awakens just because it stared a female or the new Ghostbusters before they even saw it because girls have cooties. It's men who can't wrap their heads around the fact that women are people, not just half dressed eye candy.) heads would explode.

As long as the writing is there I could care less if the Doctor was a one eyed, one horned flying purple people eater, well, I might have issue with the people eating part...unless he eats the right people. HAHAAHA I just hope that his being female now doesn't take up all the storyline. I signed up for this show for fun space travel not for a lecture on gender politics.

[MadMouse]

To be honest, I really don't know what to think.

Did I want the doctor to be a woman? No not really but that has more to do with how I view the character. To me the Doctor is a man, that's how I see the character. I would feel the same way if next series Ben Whishaw showed up calling himself Roman instead of Romana. One thing my sister who got me into Who mentioned is shes upset about is that the Doctor was a good role model for my nephew. That young boys don't really have a character like him to look up and relate too. She really was disappointed by the casting because of this. My other issue is I hate when established characters gender, race or sexuality are changed to a check a diversity box. (yes I know lore wise Time Lords can changed genders) Can I say for sure that was done here? No not really but I do think it was taken into account. The show doesn't have the hype surrounding it like it used to, as in the nerdy show that all the trendy cool people watch. This casting will do one thing the show needs and thats create a buzz around it again. I can see tons of people tuning into the Christmas special or next series premier out of curiosity. I also think it gives them a little bit of a cushion so to speak with how the show is received. If the next series isn't good any criticisms could easily brushed off as sexist. Not that there wont be people who outright dismiss the new series just because the doctor is female because lets be honest there will be.

 

Do I care that the Doctor is a woman? No not really, I joked around that Rose Leslie would have been my choice for the twelfth but there's no way she would be cast because of her looks. Its the same reason why I dismissed all the Haley Atwell rumors. From the little I've seen of Whittaker, she's a good actress with a resume much better than Matt Smith when he was cast. Most of my hesitation about the casting has more to do with the writing. Had Moffat still been around I would have bailed because of the way he handled Bill's race and sexuality last series and his horrendous writing for female main characters in general. I don't have that same hesitation with Chibnall but I don't know if he's the best show runner for DW either. But I also worry that we'll get too much of the omg the doctor is a woman type moments in the show, like in the first series of Supergirl. I also wonder how they'll handled the companions? Will we get a a full time male companion or will they stick with a modern day female one? If its a guy will it be flirty? Cant wait to read the reactions to that.

 

At the end of the day I'll give her a chance like any other doctor. 

[MissLucas]

20 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

What I am afraid of is that they make her too "maternal". I don't want her with a young male companion because I fear it will be too much mommy and her precocious son.

This! I truly hope they can avoid that particular cliché. It's probably worth remembering that sci-fi* in general is a genre that excels at creating interesting female characters - some have already been mentioned in this thread but I'd like to add Aeryn Sun, Roslin, Avasarala and the ladies of the Raza to the list. They've all managed to make an impression without being motherly or flirty or hormonal.

* Yes, I know not everybody considers Doctor Who sci-fi. One can of worms at a time.