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The Crazed Spruce

S01.E13: Dragon Plays with Fire

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I still can't believe I cared about Ward at the end. One of the few successes Iron Fist had is the swerve they made with his character. I hope he stays reformed(?) next season--assuming there is another season.

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I don't remember Claire being so annoying and preachy in the other shows. 

At least Ward finished the job.

Showing mercy is all well and good but if you're going to let the bad guy live, at least make sure he's properly restrained before you turn your back on him. Damn idiot protagonists. 

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Somehow Ward became my favorite, too. I started liking him as soon as he started letting loose after killing his "father" (sounds so wrong when read like this, LOL). From then on, all his daddy issues were resolved and he couldn't give a crap what daddy thinks. Poor Joy, she still hasn't work through hers.

I find it hard to believe Davos would grow to hate Danny that much. They practically grew up together. And Joy and he were talking as if Danny brought the problems with him when he returned to New York. It is more of Danny exposing the existing problems that the company and the Meachum family already had. The dysfunction/crime/problems were already there, Danny just shone a light on them. It's not his fault, no matter how they try to spin it.

I like Danny, but only when he is not so filled with man-angst. I have come to accept superheroes having angst but please tell me he is not going to blame himself for Kun Lun. At least he brought Colleen with him, so she can talk him down when he gets crazy. Or not. LOL, but seriously, I like that they are supportive and non-judgmental with each other.

Claire was annoying. I get she is supposed to be the voice of reason but the way she told Danny and Colleen they need professional help wasn't tactful and kind of hypocritical. I mean, Claire also loves running into danger and getting mixed up in things like this, so who is she to talk?

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2 hours ago, waving feather said:

I find it hard to believe Davos would grow to hate Danny that much. They practically grew up together. And Joy and he were talking as if Danny brought the problems with him when he returned to New York. It is more of Danny exposing the existing problems that the company and the Meachum family already had. The dysfunction/crime/problems were already there, Danny just shone a light on them. It's not his fault, no matter how they try to spin it.

Claire was annoying. I get she is supposed to be the voice of reason but the way she told Danny and Colleen they need professional help wasn't tactful and kind of hypocritical. I mean, Claire also loves running into danger and getting mixed up in things like this, so who is she to talk?

I'm guessing there was a bit of a time skip at the end. Presumably after the fist fight with Danny, Danny abandoning his duty as the Iron Fist to hang out with a former Hand agent, Davos tried to get back to Kun Lung and found dead Hand goons instead and decided it was all Danny's fault since he deserted his post. Maybe Davos thinks that if he teams up with Joy and Ghao then he can get rid of Danny and become the new Iron Fist. Considering that Danny was so willing to ditch Davos because of a bird and a woman after 15 years together, Davos probably feels that he's been sufficiently burned that he can't be bothered any more with being Danny's friend.

Claire spent a lot of time whining about being dragged into the stuff but she actively participates in all the shenanigans anyway. She spouts off cliches about not killing people when the people involved haven't asked for her opinion. Harold occupying that building at night with a bunch of goons was just weird and nonsensical especially since he had just shown up at that office that morning and people really should have had more questions about his whole death and resurrection thing. Admittedly killing people shouldn't be the first option but just letting your enemies go when they have millions of dollars at their disposal and ties to a secret organisation of ninjas seems stupid as hell. 

They really should have chopped off that Sensei's head when they had the chance. They seem to have forgotten that the Hand can bring people back from the dead. *sigh*

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2 hours ago, wayne67 said:

Considering that Danny was so willing to ditch Davos because of a bird and a woman after 15 years together, Davos probably feels that he's been sufficiently burned that he can't be bothered any more with being Danny's friend.

I understand Davos being pissed and wanting nothing to do with Danny but I don't get him wanting to kill Danny. He really wanted the iron fist, I guess.

The show didn't really explain what's the true purpose of the iron fist, right? They said a bunch of vague things about guarding the gate to Kun Lun, but is that it? That's a glorified security guard post. No wonder Danny was bored and fled.

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I don't understand how Joy, the most supportive member towards Danny in her family, went from railing against her father, for setting him up, to being willing to entertain Davos' ideas about killing him. Maybe I missed something and I know that is inline with the storyline from the comic but that seemed inconsistent with her portrayal throughout the series. 

Edited by Dream Boy
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I hope those claws are going to Trish Walker! The last episode of every one of these series drags for me, and this was no exception. No surprises occurred. Everyone was back roughly where he/she started, except for the Danny/Colleen romance, which was done I suppose for the tv series, since they never coupled in the comics. I didn't hate it, but it started to gain potential for me around the midpoint, and then it fell apart around the reveal of Colleen and the Other Hand. I guess we'll see them all in "The Defenders", which will include exactly zero Defenders from the comics, so they can use and discard whomever they see fit to. Danny brings the least to the table.

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47 minutes ago, NorthstarATL said:

I hope those claws are going to Trish Walker! 

If we get Hellcat, it would have made of all of this worth it lol 

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The Davos and Joy thing seemed to come out of nowhere. I'm guessing Davos found K'un-Lun gone and is pissed he's stuck in NY. Have a bagel, my guy. It's not so bad there. I don't know why Joy would want Danny dead. I would assume she could go back to working at Rand with her brother. Sure, her dad was a crazy person, but I'm sure she could find a good therapist. How convenient that Madame Gao was chilling at the next table. 

I ended up rooting for Ward, too, which I would not have thought would ever happen in the first few episodes. 

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I think the actor that played Davos was VERY good because I ended up liking him a great deal and understand why he is consumed with rage at what he views as Danny's betrayal.  Danny got the Iron Fist, abandoned the cause and if Davos found out that the "place" is gone, that would have been enough to send him off the deep end.    Though it's clear he realizes he can't beat Danny in out right combat so he's going to use guile.  And possibly Joy.

Never, EVER bet against Madam Gao.  She's seen the fall of Wilson Fisk, watched the Hand battle Daredevil and Elektra.  She remains unimpressed by everyone.

I also really missed Bokuto.  He was an AWESOME villain.  I don't know if it was the actor but the way he spoke and carried himself, I was tempted to join "The Hand".  Or maybe it's my crush on the actor.

Ward was a surprise since just about every supporting character had shifting motivations and ambitions throughout this whole story.

Jeri Hogarth remains a favorite of mine.  She doesn't have arsenic running through her veins, just VERY cold blood. lol.  "I love a good cremation." "I had know idea there was going to be so much emotional honesty." LMAO.   My favorite Everyday, Mostly within the confines of the law, Evil Doer.  

I thought the writing could have been tighter in some places and some of the fight scenes could've used a little help but I liked it.  I think Finn Jones was very good in the role.  EXASPERATING but I never doubted that he had/has a good heart.   I hope for some character growth so that I don't want to pull his pretty hair so often but I give the show a B.

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It seemed a little OTT to me that Davos suddenly wants Danny dead, and that Joy would even consider helping him with that. My reaction was "wait, what, why?". Like @waving feather said upthread; Danny didn't cause the Meacham family/Rand Enterprises problems; his return merely revealed them. If Joy is meant to be so savvy, she would recognise that.

As for Claire; her 'holier than thou' attitude began to grate, especially given how willingly she throws her lot in with 'these people'. As for her parting shot; I actually frowned and said "Well that was very useful advice...also? Fuck you Claire".

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Davos sounded like a jilted ex.
Also... yeah, K'un L'un doesn't sound like the bee's knees, does it?
Also, Danny flip-floped constantly.
He did like it there. No, he didn't. He wanted to be Iron Fist. No, he didn't. It was a big deal. No, it wasn't. He has let go of things, sans family. No, he hasn't. He is wise and calm. No, he isn't. He was severely beaten and abused. But it was not like a cult!!! But he couldn't control his emotions. No... he can. No, he can't. No, he can. No, he can't.
GAAAAAAAAAH!

Joy made no sense.

Davos was a good friend. Supposedly. Who bitched and complained and acted as if Danny was gone for YEARS and not... months, at best. And then was a-ok to kill Danny? What?? Even madam Gao was less than her brilliant self.
Also, why did he have a British accent??
Considering K'un L'ao is unaccessible, if he manages to manipulate things into having Danny dead, who will become the next Iron Fist? Can it be Colleen??? Please? Also, wouldn't that royally fuck K'un L'un?

I couldn't stand it, really...

At least I loved how much Harold went over the edge. :) (I mean mentally, not the final fight, which was the obligatory tall building flop.) The scene with the spoon and the ice-cream was superb. And his remorse after that.

Is it just me, or does anyone else's head hurt from trying to figure this thing out?
What happened with the suit against the plant? I expected for it to be a plot point?
How did the henchman convince anyone that a headshot to the front of a head is a suicide???
Who is working on the board now?
Why were Danny and Colleen dressed at the end like they were hiking to the local park? Also, no equipment?? For him, fine, but she could have dropped to her death several times, especially with those exposed hands, face and weird clothing choice.
Also, the backpacks looked like the worst choices for going in the mountains.

-incoherent blabbing-

This show is bad for my brain...
 

Edited by Eneya
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1 hour ago, Eneya said:

Also, no equipment?? For him, fine, but she could have dropped to her death several times, especially with those exposed hands, face and weird clothing choice.

I actually thought for a moment there that the twist would be her falling to her death.

I do like this show because the hero is quite unassuming. Even when he is kicking ass, you would not think he is kicking ass. There is something I like about that.

1 hour ago, Eneya said:

Davos sounded like a jilted ex.

Lol. Perhaps that's why he was so pissed to see Danny with Colleen. 

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That wasn't a bad finale as far as MarvelNetflix series go, but they ruined for me what was a fairly good episode when they paired Joy up with Davos.  That was shit writing, a completely unearned plot twist, and really fucking unfair to Joy as a character.  From the very beginning, Joy was depicted as being the most moral member of her family and one of the smartest.  It makes no sense that she'd buy into Davos's logic that Danny was at the heart of her pain and that Danny would need to die in order for her to get her life back.  What does she does she even need to get back?  Before Danny came back she was under the impression that her Dad was dead.  Now she's under that impression again.*  Before Danny came back, she was the top corporate lawyer at Rand.  Now that job is almost certainly hers again should she want it.  Both Danny and Ward would likely be thrilled to have her back.  Her relationship with Ward is obviously in a much worse shape now than it was before Danny came back to New York, but that has nothing to do with Danny at all and Joy has to know that.  So what gives?  I don't even understand what Madame Gao is doing in that scene.  Yes she's a schemer and she likely has her own reasons to want to cause problems for Danny, but this doesn't seem like her style.  She manipulates her pawns with truth (or at least twisted versions of the truth), but that's not what's happening here.

Bottom line: I'm going to be upset if the purpose of that scene was to set up Joy as an antagonist for next season.  It shows a profound disrepect for your characters to force them to behave in ways that conflict with their personality and character history just because you want to create particular plot points.

*Did we ever see anyone take his head off?  I know Harold was supposedly just cremated,  but I can't help feeling suspicious that he might be able to reanimate himself because of some loophole.

 

Oh and I thought the set for the gates of K' un Lun were super cheesy.  The mountain pass didn't look at all like it was really outdoors.  It looked like a cheaply built set on a sound stage.   

Edited by xqueenfrostine
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It's not just the entrance to K'un L'un for me. It's the pre-episode-one flashback scenes in their entirety. They all just read to me as amazingly false. Including the "emotional" airplane sequence where characters die and I'm expected to feel something when they never bothered to tell us who either of Danny's parents even were, beyond a few boring-ass monologues delivered with frowny-face, where we can only project our own standard genre TV assumptions onto the situation because that's all they bothered showing us.

Both visually and emotionally, I felt like I was looking at a half-finished school play with actors in desperate need of motivation, and maybe some kind of meaningful third act to try to arc toward.

This is the sort of lifeless writing/producing that ruined the finale to Dexter. I don't know who among the Marvel/Netflix staff has affection for that show, but they should have done their homework enough to know that they grabbed the wrong showrunner from that lot.

It's not the worst show ever, but the lack of care it takes in handling its characters is disappointing.

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That was... a bit anti-climatic. Honestly, I was expecting more. I liked it when Danny punched the floor, though. The writing needs improving and I agree that the evil alliance between Davos and Joy makes zero sense. But it's good enough and I really want to see Danny with the other Defenders (more than I want to see him at the monastery, tbh). 

I'm glad Ward could get rid of Harold. To me, he was the most interesting character and I enjoyed his evolution. 

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Did they really get rid of Harold though? Bakuto said you have to cut off the head and while I certainly did not want to see Ward taking care of that business I was waiting for some throwaway line that he did - but it never cam. So I'm expecting Harold to pull a Captain Jack next season.

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So that was... an ending. Anti-climatic is right.

I hope the dangling plot threads are meant to lead into Defenders, because I don’t think this show really merits another season. I wouldn’t mind seeing some of these characters as supporting players in other Marvel stuff, but there’s not really enough here to carry its own show.

It was cool when he punched the floor and everything shattered, though.

I loved Hogarth’s “Let’s make a list of things that you are never allowed to say again” Ha! He needs one badly!

That list would include:
1) Harold came back from the dead
2) I’ve been to another dimension
3) I got magical fist powers from a dragon

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2 hours ago, gabrielle said:

I would be so much more interested if this were the case.

I guess that means I should write or find a terrible fan fic with this pairing.

After a tough work out Davos and Danny go to the lake to find girls and instead find each other and because they're in a monastery told to suppress their feelings they bury it deep within themselves until they lash out in the only way their training tells them is appropriate with fisticuffs.

Their couple name would be Davy or Danos ? 

Super strength is fairly generic though in the super hero world. His real talent is probably being the only one of the Defenders to have martial arts training. Not that it seems to stop him from being randomly taken out by random goons or bullets. 

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Since the last episode thread for a Marvel Netflix series tends to be an overall thread for the series, my thoughts here encompass the show rather than just the episode. There is no overall series thread yet.

First and foremost I liked Danny's child-like innocence. The foremost example being when he jumped down under his dad's desk to marvel at the stickers that were still under there. And then he gets into the swivel chair and starts playing with the adjusts on it because that's what kids do when they first encounter swivel chairs! And we slowly see Danny growing up... from giving Colleen's students shit for their lack of discipline (because kids lack tact and are happy to point out when you're breaking the rules) to finally getting a real job and a girlfriend and some adult responsibilities.

I also liked how the line between bad guy and good guy was never entirely clear. Even Madame Gao managed to be morally ambiguous and Harold wasn't really so much of a villain as someone who wanted something specific and was willing to do anything to accomplish it.

The Hand were made out to be so much creepier in this series than in anything Daredevil showed us... the Hand-print on the 50th story window with the "where did you go?" caption was awesome.

K'un L'un kinda sucks though... you have one ultimate warrior who has the job of guarding the gates. But you're a warrior monk society where everyone gets beaten with sticks until they learn to fight... so take two almost-ultimate warriors and have them guard the gates instead!

I was disappointed with the lack of a Defenders setup. We did have references to Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Daredevil but I was hoping one if not all of them would show up for the finale.

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I also like that Danny was written as childlike. It made sense to me. I wouldn't say he is stupid, he is just naive and trusting. He kind of has arrested development. And LOL at everyone (Gao, Bakuto, Harold, Ward, etc) pointing out to him what a child he still is.

The decisions he made at Rand was seen as incredibly silly but for someone who didn't grow up in that society or work for the corporate world, it made sense why he would do those things.

And then trusting Harold and Ward even when they were being shady, I get that too. He thought they were still part of the family he grew up with and Harold to his mind was a replacement for his father. Harold was also the only one who welcomed him back with open arms.

And Danny would never know for sure if the Hand is really as evil as Kun Lun said so. Being groomed as the sworn enemy of a group people since young is brainwashing to a certain extent.

I personally find Danny's character to be very interesting but sometimes I wish Finn Jones play him with more subtlety.

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On 3/21/2017 at 0:41 AM, wayne67 said:

Super strength is fairly generic though in the super hero world. His real talent is probably being the only one of the Defenders to have martial arts training. Not that it seems to stop him from being randomly taken out by random goons or bullets. 

Daredevil has martial arts training, boxing training and enhanced senses. And he didn't get beat nearly as easily as Danny did. It still looks like Danny's getting his ass beat until the other fighter suddenly has to lose because the show says so. Jessica and Luke really don't need much training, one punch from them and they could kill you. Jessica threw a gun straight through a wall, can lift Luke Cage up like he weighs nothing and Luke can bust through solid brick and they can do that without needing to summon a light in their fist. 

Danny's too much of an idiot for me to root for. I get that he's stuck in the mindset of a 10 year old, but I don't want to see that. I really don't see why the three other adult Defenders would want him around. They don't need a dumb puppy to look after. 

I get why Davos wants to kill Danny. But Joy being on board makes 0 sense. Danny did nothing to her. Her father was crazy and their company was pulling shady shit. None of that was because of Danny. So I have no idea why she'd suddenly want him dead. I loved Madame Gao being there because that woman knows all. 

For a finale it was very meh. I wish they had showed that it was Elektra that took out K'un L'un or something to make it more interesting. 

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I didn't see the hand print, 50 storeys up.

The last episode of each season, is usually a letdown for me, too. I wasn't as into this show as I have been with the others (although I only got a few episodes into Luke Cage - I still need to get back to that one). Daredevil and Jessica Jones had me wanting to watch just one more, and I would put it off until I was more awake. 

I am surprised that I ended up liking Ward. I'm also disappointed of what they're doing with Joy and what's his name. Davos? 

Claire, I've always thought was preachy, but she was rude this episode. It was unwarranted. 

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I actually thought it was better then some of the other Marvel Netflix shows, but still a bit of a letdown in someways.  Sure enough, Harold was the true villain in the end (even was true culprit behind Danny's parents murder), Danny and Harold get into a big-ass fight, and Danny wins, but doesn't give him the deathblow in order to remain a "hero", while it is Ward that finally puts his father down.  I am curious if this is truly the end, since they didn't cut off his head and just cremated him instead.  Granted, being reduced into a pile of ashes seems like it would be hard to come back from, but I'm still unsure over how The Hand's special powers work.  But if this is the end, David Wenham made the most of it.  He's no Kilgrave, but I'll put him right behind Wilson Fisk in the antagonist department.  Certainly better then Diamondback.  And almost all of the Marvel film villains....

They did surprise me with Ward.  I never would have predicted that the season would end with him being an ally for Danny and one of the good ones.  On the other hand, Joy is suddenly open to the idea of teaming up with Davos and killing Danny?  I'm not against her being bad, since they showed that Joy has it in her to be ruthless, but this could have used some much better build-up.  Danny really needed to have done something really bad to her, in order for me to buy her being OK with taking him down.  Weird development.

Usually Claire makes everything better, but she was being strangely jerky in this episode.  Danny and Colleen have issues, sure, but they really aren't that weirder then Matt, Luke, etc., and I never thought she was that cold to them like she was to those two at the end.

Glad they got some awesome Hogarth moments for the finale!

Danny and Colleen go to Kun Lun, only to see that it's been fucked up by The Hand after-all.  I so hope Elektra was one of them!

Overall, not a great show, but it was better then I thought it would be.  Sure, the fight choreography was lacking (and seeing the premiere to Into the Badlands a few days ago really emphasized that), a lot of weird developments, and Danny/Finn Jones was kind of dull, but Ward ended up being interesting, David Wenham was awesome, and Colleen was pretty badass, and I now have a complete crush on Jessica Henwick.  I do wonder how Danny will fare with The Defenders, since I just don't find him as interesting as the others (yes, even Luke.)  We shall see, I guess.

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That wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. However, I like everyone didn't get the end. Why would Joy want to kill him? He if anything exposed a drug ring in her organization. At the end they had their jobs back. I get that Davos blames him for it disappearing. Though to really plot to kill his best friend seems extreme. Also from what was shown in the final scene, those were hand people that were dead, not the monks. So maybe they escaped.

I was disappointed that we never got an origin story. I know that it was told to us, but I'd still rather see what happened instead of getting fuzzy "flashbacks". I did enjoy when he hit the floor, finally something else the fist can do.

Anyhow, I was surprised how much I liked Ward at end. I couldn't stand him for the first few episodes but he grew on me at the end. I don't get all the dislike for Claire on here, I thought she was awesome as always. I kind of took her line at the end to be ironic as she also needs help too. She had great lines in the show and as usual brought the best out of the scenes she was in. I really hope that she is in the defenders. I also have to add that I liked Gao too. She definitely is the best villain of all the shows.

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Did I imagine them burning something near the end of the episode? When Ward and Danny, met with the lawyer. If I didn't: what were they burning?

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6 minutes ago, Anela said:

Did I imagine them burning something near the end of the episode? When Ward and Danny, met with the lawyer. If I didn't: what were they burning?

They were cremating Harold's body.  I don't think we actually saw David Wenham in there so for all we know Harold's resurrected himself and stuck a new corpse in his place, but Ward, Danny and Hogarth were there for the purpose of burning his remains.

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50 minutes ago, xqueenfrostine said:

They were cremating Harold's body.  I don't think we actually saw David Wenham in there so for all we know Harold's resurrected himself and stuck a new corpse in his place, but Ward, Danny and Hogarth were there for the purpose of burning his remains.

Thank you. That's what I thought, but I was distracted (and I thought someone had to chop off his head - maybe they did that off-screen).

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I had the day off and slogged through the last half of this. Prior to this I've only watched the 1st half of Luke Cage and none if the other Marvel shows. All the terrible reviews made me curious about Daredevil and 5 minutes into the 1st episode it was clearly superior. I wonder what Rosario Dawson and the actress who plays Madame Gao really think about the difference (dip) in quality. Surely they must have noticed. We might get the real scoop a few years from now.

Overall it wasn't 0% bad <shrug>. Now off to binge Daredevil and Jessica Jones...

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It wasn't as terrible as the critics made it out to be but it wasn't good either. I wasn't a big fan of Luke Cage, the quality however was far superior. There are problems when the worst part of the show was the Iron Fist. I'm talking about both the character and the actual power. The fights in Daredevil were amazing to watch and from that I would think Daredevil could kick the Iron Fist's ass. They never really showed me Danny was that much better than everyone else he fought. Even Harold a person that wasn't trained since childhood to fight was able to knock him out. Danny seems like a mediocre fighter to me. 

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9 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It wasn't as terrible as the critics made it out to be but it wasn't good either. I wasn't a big fan of Luke Cage, the quality however was far superior. There are problems when the worst part of the show was the Iron Fist. I'm talking about both the character and the actual power. The fights in Daredevil were amazing to watch and from that I would think Daredevil could kick the Iron Fist's ass. They never really showed me Danny was that much better than everyone else he fought. Even Harold a person that wasn't trained since childhood to fight was able to knock him out. Danny seems like a mediocre fighter to me. 

I agree the critics were overly harsh. Rotten Tomatoes shows it an 18% from critics, but 82% from the audience. I think the whole so called whitewashing had people entering the show with a predetermined dislike. The recappers here on PTV were just as bad, with one saying whitemansplaining and another with Mansplaining White Savior. If no one enjoyed the show why even bother recapping it, just have a forum section. *shrugs*

Even thought the fights seemed a bit off, and not as amazing as DD I just took it to be different fighting styles. Matt is a boxer at heart with a bit of martial arts added in (from his brief time with Stick). He is a brawler who beats his opponents into submission. I took Danny's  as more of a dancer. Try to avoid getting hit, use your opponents momentum against them and then incapacitate.

I said it in another episode thread that I enjoyed this more than I did Luke Cage.

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I give the series a C- overall. I never warmed to Danny or understood what his goals were. The fights were lackluster and character development for everyone was haphazard and inconsistent. There were too many head snapping changes about who the bad guys were. Nothing made me care about any of them. The biggest sin was managing to make Claire tedious and whiny.

I really enjoyed the other three series, so maybe my expectations were too high going in.

Edited by Lord Donia
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The overall quality of this show seemed pretty low, from the special effects to the fight choreography to the writing. 
This series did no favors for the characters of Claire or Madam Gao. And it made The Hand seem a lot less like scary ninjas and more like thugs with guns. 
The thing that saved the show, for our household, was the constant forward momentum and a decent balance of action versus talking.

The things that really stuck out in the finale were the following: 

  • The fake looking scenery and day-hike clothing that Danny and Colleen wore when climbing into the Himalayas. It didn't even look cold.
  • Harold holding his own against Danny on the roof, while taking the time to explain his entire evil plan to get rid of Danny's family. 
  • Bukuto's entire compound conveniently abandoned - - Colleen knew many of those students and many that had jobs in the city.
  • Madam Gao picking that particular moment to tell Danny that it was Harold who arranged Danny's father's death.
  • Danny's freak-out moments, accompanied with light-show special effects, that didn't really seem to add up to anything. 
  • Harold returning to the company with hardly any reaction - or any issues of having been declared legally dead.
  • Harold deciding to pull an all-nighter on his first day back to work, along with a small army -- just when Danny decided to break in.
  • The WtF of Davos and Joy talking about killing Danny. (Tho both actors looked very rested and polished.)
  • Almost all of Danny's decisions - including the one to storm the building with no plan. 

I was surprised they decided to end the show with cliffhangers. It seemed a given that the 'doorway' to Kun Lun was going to be closed - which I assume should be closed for the next fifteen years.

When (if) Iron Fist does return, I hope they get rid of those moments where Danny has snit-fits and then decides to just forge ahead with no plan. The actor really doesn't do those well and it comes off like a toddler having a tantrum. 

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

When (if) Iron Fist does return, I hope they get rid of those moments where Danny has snit-fits and then decides to just forge ahead with no plan. The actor really doesn't do those well and it comes off like a toddler having a tantrum. 

What bothered me is he'd act that way and say he was the best, the finely honed weapon, then get his ass kicked because he wasn't prepared. Where was the amazing fighter he claimed to be? I never saw that. I hope he learned some lessons so when he meets the others he's a little more mature. 

I took Danny's  as more of a dancer. Try to avoid getting hit, use your opponents momentum against them and then incapacitate.

Yet, Danny was always getting hit by the other fighters pretty easily. Maybe the actor just couldn't pull of the graceful fighting they were going for. 

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The recappers here on PTV were just as bad, with one saying whitemansplaining and another with Mansplaining White Savior. If no one enjoyed the show why even bother recapping it, just have a forum section

The PTV reviews bothered me too. I stopped reading it after like the second episode. I did glace at the last one to see what they said, and wow did they even watch the show? The show wasn't all bad, it seemed like they simply read another websites review and copied it with the assumption that it was bad.

As for Danny's fighting, I got the impression he was a good fighter (forgetting the way the fights looked as that is outside the show).  He just didn't finish or really start training as an iron fist. I do wish that they made the character less whinny however.

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It wasn't the crap show the critics made it out to be but it was rather bland.  For me it suffered in comparison with superior Netflix series I have watched previously. More sophisticated ones.  I may be too old for the show.  I am okay if this is the end.

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I am a bit miffed that some people have issues with the reviews, because the reviewers disliked the show and were irritated at the very irritating whitewashing and at idiot Danny mansplaining shit to people who are in no way less than his equal. I would have been a lot more irritated and with a lot stronger words than some of the recaps, tbh.

Mostly, people, who recap, people who review, have education in media, film, etc... which means, they know what to look for and can spot a flaw, mistake or just plain stupidity a mile away and they talk about it directly. To me, this sounds like people critisising judges for being too harsh on the performance of an athlete, because the said viewer liked it. :) Opinions are fine but liking or not liking something is not that much of a debate. Somebody liked it, great. Somebody didn't. It's ok. It can be discussed why it was or wasn't like but... there is no right answer to this anyway.

Edited by Eneya
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4 hours ago, Eneya said:

I am a bit miffed that some people have issues with the reviews, because the reviewers disliked the show and were irritated at the very irritating whitewashing and at idiot Danny mansplaining shit to people who are in no way less than his equal. I would have been a lot more irritated and with a lot stronger words than some of the recaps, tbh.

Mostly, people, who recap, people who review, have education in media, film, etc... which means, they know what to look for and can spot a flaw, mistake or just plain stupidity a mile away and they talk about it directly.

and yet, all those educated reviewers failed to understand that Danny wasn't mansplaing but showing Coleen a different technique, since she uses a Japanese one and he a Chinese one (and is stated in the very first dialogue they have, when he asks her why she, with a chinese name,  is teaching japanese martial arts, and re-called in the second scene they have together when we see her teaching karate and he asks if she teaches kung fu...

also, take a tour on TVTROPE.... you may find that whitewashing means (hint: doesn't mean having a caucasian actor play a caucasian character.)

On 25/3/2017 at 2:12 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

 

  • The fake looking scenery and day-hike clothing that Danny and Colleen wore when climbing into the Himalayas. It didn't even look cold.

 

I am the only one not bothered by their clothes? they say is into the Himalayas, not at what quote, and in the flashbacks we see Danny and Davos wearing just a robe, chest bared.... so it mustn't be that cold.

[the fake rocks and snow, on the other side... like, have these people ever seen snow?]

Edited by uffauffa
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3 hours ago, Eneya said:

I am a bit miffed that some people have issues with the reviews, because the reviewers disliked the show and were irritated at the very irritating whitewashing and at idiot Danny mansplaining shit to people who are in no way less than his equal. I would have been a lot more irritated and with a lot stronger words than some of the recaps, tbh.

Mostly, people, who recap, people who review, have education in media, film, etc... which means, they know what to look for and can spot a flaw, mistake or just plain stupidity a mile away and they talk about it directly. To me, this sounds like people critisising judges for being too harsh on the performance of an athlete, because the said viewer liked it. :) Opinions are fine but liking or not liking something is not that much of a debate. Somebody liked it, great. Somebody didn't. It's ok. It can be discussed why it was or wasn't like but... there is no right answer to this anyway.

Are you saying that reviewers are automatically smarter than people who watch shows for fun and entertainment?  It sure sounds like it.

I disagree that the opinion of Jo or Jane Average is less valid than a professional review.  When somebody like Alan Sepinwall for example reviews a TV show it is not the gospel according to Alan, when all is said and done it is his personal opinion.  And while I may find it interesting or agree with it I may also disagree with it.  What Sepinwall thinks of a show isn't any more valid than my own opinion of something, or the opinion or thoughts of posters on message boards such as this.

We all go through life with our own personal baggage and formed by our experiences.  Which influences how we look at media, etc. 

I don't have a problem with some people liking this show or some people hating it.  It won't influence how I feel about it and while I read reviews I go by my own thoughts and opinion.

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I don't think anyone's mad at the reviewers that didn't like the show. For me I just didn't think it was as bad as they made it out to be. They made it seem like the show was an insult to television. While it wasn't the greatest show, it wasn't the worst either. I've even seen other reviewers that didn't get the early screeners say the they also didn't think the show was as bad as the early reviews stated. Or they lowered everyone expectations and made us enjoy the show more then we would've.  

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To me, reviewers are just professional writers who give their opinions and like any other job, they lose credibility with me when they go about it in an extreme way. Like @uffauffa stated, how can it be whitewashing when the character is supposed to be white? It's even more offensive to assume that every martial artist has to be asian. And Danny is the least mansplaining character I've seen on my TV recently because he himself is kind of clueless and childish. If they said Dr. Bull from BULL is one mansplaining fella, then heck yes.

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My wife and I found this show, overall, and this episode, in particular, quite boring. We don't care whether this show gets another season or not. If you look up "anti-climactic" in the dictionary, the third definition says "See Iron Fist, season 1, episode 13". Who didn't realize from either episode 1 or from the moment they introduced Harold that it was Harold who had Danny's parents killed (and expected Danny to die, as well)? Seriously, if you raised your hand, you should feel ashamed. And that's really the problem with this show: Everything the writers did in this show was such a well-worn trope of television and movies (and, in many [if not all] cases, of story-telling in general) that there was nothing new or surprising here; we've been down all these paths countless times before. When you pair such pedestrian writing with terrible acting (seriously, what was with Danny acting like he was going to lose cohesion at the atomic level and the camera would go out of focus? What was the point of that?), it makes for a show nobody cares much about, filled with characters that are even harder to care about. The part where he punches the floor was the only cool part about this episode and it was the coolest part of the series so far. Where has that kind of bad-assery been hiding for the last 12 and 1/2 episodes? Nobody really knows, and it went back to wherever it came from entirely too quickly.

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I cant believe this show got me to care about Ward so much! He really did a 180 from where he started at the start of the season. I hope we get to see more of him in future Iron Fist/Defenders shows. As long as he keeps off the drugs, he could be a really good ally for them to have.

This was a pretty good final episode, with my big complaint being Davos and Joy teaming up to kill Danny because...reasons? I truly have no idea what their deal is, or why they want to kill Danny. Davos I kind of get, because he's all pissed off at not being the Iron Fist, but still, we never got the feeling that he wanted to KILL Danny, he was Danny's best friend, and was shown to be an alright guy, even if he was pretty brutal. And Joy makes zero sense. None of her problems were Danny's fault, her dad was evil way before any of this ever happened! I get that she's ruthless, but there's a difference between being ruthless and just being pointlessly evil.

All in all, I thought this was actually pretty good, maybe not as good as some of the other MCU Netflix shows, but still pretty solid. I have to say, it didn't get drowned in pointless subplots and characters like a lot of Netflix shows, and it stayed pretty consistent in story arc throughout the whole season. I thought Finn Jones was solid as well, not amazing or anything, but certainly not bad. I think he could have been more zen acting, and his anger came off as kind of whiny, but he played the childlike side of Danny really well, and I'm looking forward to seeing what he does as a member of an ensemble, instead of the main character. I do wish they allowed Danny to get a few more wins this season. He did stop Harald, but The Hand is fine, and now the city he was supposed to protect has disappeared.

As for the critics? I think they were WAY too hard on this show, I think because they loved the other MCU shows so much, that this one was a disappointment to them, or maybe its just unfortunate enough to be the last show before The Defenders, and they are kind of sick of the Netflix MCU Formula. Or maybe there is a small part of it that is that this show doesn't really have the Social Justice aspect that Jessica Jones or Luke Cage (or even Daredevil) had, and that's something that critics tend to get drawn to, but if that is true, its a small part. I'm not saying there is some crazy Social Justice Warrior Conspiracy, because that's stupid, but it might have played a small part in the critical backlash. However, I think the biggest issue is that critics only saw the first half of the show, and a lot of the things they complained about the most were things that were fixed in the second half. Its something that's become a real issue with TV criticism and these Binge Shows.

Meh, who cares? I don't think this a great show by any means, but I thought it was enjoyable, not anywhere near the train wreck I was expecting. It was kind of like when I watched Fuller House, after hearing the critics going on like this show was 30 minutes of puppies being roasted on a spit fire, and it was...a harmless nostalgia driven family sitcom. Not really good, but I enjoyed it. I like reading critical reviews, because it can give me an idea if a show is something I would like, or if I should give something I had skipped a second look, but, at the end of the day, its just an opinion.

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This show sort of almost tried for a social justice angle with making Danny homeless at the beginning and making friends with that nice homeless man. Then that guy was quickly killed off and forgotten. There was also that subplot with the factory that was allegedly giving people cancer. But that took a turn into "look at these scummy people with their cancer kids taking advantage of the well-meaning rich guy". I guess there doesn't necessarily have to be some social justice angle in every show, but it's like the people making this show don't know what they're trying to do.

I wouldn't call what Danny was doing "mansplaining", but I can see how it gave people that impression. Even though Danny is supposed to be a better fighter than Colleen, the actress playing Colleen did look more convincing doing fight scenes on screen than Finn Jones. And he had the tendency to come off like a smug hipster ("Your martial arts is so mainstream. I trained in K'un L'un - you probably haven't even heard of it"). I know, that's not exactly what he said, and that tone couldn't have been intentional, but I swear that's how it came off!

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I don't have too much to add. I just wanted to say that while this show was very messy, and the ending with Joy and Davos made 0 sense, I still liked it fine. I'd probably give it 3.3/5 stars. I liked it a lot less than Jessica Jones, but a lot more than Luke Cage (which I couldn't even finish due to how ridiculous is got towards the end).  Colleen and Ward were definitely the stand-out characters. I did find Danny annoying, and Sir Loras Tyrell wasn't that convincing of a fighter in a lot of the scenes, but I didn't think he was TERRIBLE. Like others have said, I think the show would have been much better at 10 episodes than at 13.  I'm in for Defenders, and even for the second season of Iron Fist, if there ever is one. 

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Please don't tell me we are going to spend all of season 2 dealing with Danny's guilt over Kun Lun, after we spent most of season 1 dealing with Danny's buried anger over his parents' deaths. Can we just move forward, show?

That roof fight was all kinds of silly. Danny knocks gun from Harold ... and Danny scurries off? Harold knocks Danny unconscious ... and Harold staggers away? Guys, are you aware you are fighting each other?

Overall, this show was underwhelming. There is clearly a "Iron Fist tries to do right, in a world that has forgotten" thing going on, and I like that. But all the hesitation and second guessing wore thin. And the villains were underwhelming. There was no Wilson Fisk or Cottonmouth or what's his name on JJ. Why anyone ever believed that Harold was sincere about anything is beyond me. And Madam Gao is still just a mystery with flashes of promise. Bukato came and went in a blink. 

And that scene at the end, with Davos and Joy, made no sense at all. 

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