Season 13: Speculation and Spoilers

[truthaboutluv]

17 minutes ago, slade3 said:

Of course editing makes it difficult to tell whether she's serious,

Exactly. She very well could be (except I'm sure she is being facetious on some level since I'd hope the woman doesn't go around making legit murder threats and with cameras present no less), but knowing how much this show loves to play with the edits, I would personally wait to see the episode before deciding that Bryan's mother is this future evil MIL from hell. It would be just like the show, especially because of the story Bryan shared about his ex-girlfriend, to play this moment up to more than it is. These producers know what they're doing. Of course right after we see an episode of Bryan saying his last relationship ended because of some issues with the woman and his mother, we get crazy Mama Bryan threatening to kill Rachel in the previews for HTD. And seriously, how many fathers have said stuff like that, "you hurt my daughter, I'll kill you". Hell Rachel's dad probably said it to a guy or two. 

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

Has anyone seen the preview where his mom says something along the lines of, "If he's happy, I'm happy. If not, I'll kill you?" Fun times!

I was on E trying to get the scoop on Zendaya and Tom Holland for my nephew (he is crazy about her) and I did see that. I didn't know how to link it.   As someone posted, I doubt it is as big a deal as shown. These producers!  They go out of the way to make as much drama as they can...like releasing stirring the pot "deleted" scenes.  If you are going to release deleted scenes, why not those that show why Matt and Adam were around so long?  Or something more than Bryan and Rachel complimenting each other...and slobbing on each other?   Or if Blake was really licking a banana? 

As I said, his mother will be fine as long as he is getting expensive gifts, going to premieres and takes advantage of all that goes along with the "Bachelor" family.  She is probably already picking out her designer dress for the televised wedding. 

 I am starting to wonder if Rachel is choosing Bryan because she wants to get what she wants out of this franchise for the next couple of years and knows that he won't be heartbroken when it ends.   Dean and Eric were too emotionally fragile for that and maybe she didn't think Peter could pretend to be into her that long.....

[dirtypop90]

^I'm now just too turned off of bryan after hearing his mom ran off the ex (another red flag) and have been off peter for awhile now. So I have convinced myself and my mother that Rachel is not interested in marrying Bryan and they have just an agreement to milk this for a little while.  And IA that Peter couldn't fake it.

My ideal ending is her sending Peter and Bryan both packing and agreeing to just date eric after watching the sneak peeks for next week. 

[catrice2]

Off topic, does anyone know if Zendaya and Tom Holland are dating?  I have a 19 year old that is heartbroken by this news and E! only confused me. 

[nutty1]

On 7/12/2017 at 4:59 PM, dirtypop90 said:

^ She has shown more patience with Peter and his refusal to open up than any other contestant. She has been quick to cut other men that don't do/say what she wants, but not Peter.  Further, there has been no progress in their relationship since their first date and he is still around, unlike Anthony. Also, she is typically the one who initiates the kisses between them. She pulled him to the hot tub one episode and was on top of him the entire time. And his body language whenever they are kissing indicates lack of interest to me when compared to the other men;he often fails to wrap both arms around her when they are kisssing.  He is not romantically interested. All JMO of course.

Have you looked at him??? I'd throw myself on top of him too, LOL!! 

[truthaboutluv]

There are short clips of each guy's HTD on ABC.com and the two main points of discussion is one, Rachel's conversation with Peter's mother confirming that the mother's not sure Peter is necessarily ready to propose, although she does say he is ready for children and commitment. So in other words, he'd be fine with kids now and would be committed to a woman and make that clear but not necessarily in the form of a formal engagement. The other thing that's gotten a lot of reaction is that Rachel calls Bryan "baby" when she sees him for his HTD. Some people are basically seeing that as even more confirmation that her mind was already made up and set on Bryan at that point. 

Edited July 15, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[waving feather]

I saw those clips and is it just me or her excitement over Peter during the course of the season has dimmed and her excitement over Bryan has increased? I remember Rachel being absolutely giddy over Peter on their first date, but in that clip of them at the Farmer's market, she looked kinda bored.

Edited July 15, 2017 by waving feather

[dirtypop90]

^ I agree. I think Bryan has always been her F1 but I think she has cooled off Peter, considerably. I remember seeing pics of their hometown date before the season started and I noticed how distant they looked so was confused by reality Steve initially stating peter won.

I also caught peter's mom statement that peter is ready for a family but not marriage. Rachel isn't going for that. 

[Wings]

1 minute ago, dirtypop90 said:

^ I agree. I think Bryan has always been her F1 but I think she has cooled off Peter, considerably. I remember seeing pics of their hometown date before the season started and I noticed how distant they looked so was confused by reality Steve initially stating peter won.

I also caught peter's mom statement that peter is ready for a family but not marriage. Rachel isn't going for that. 

That was a frankenbite.   His mother's "not necessarily" was not the answer to Rachael's question,  "do you think he is ready to marry."  She did say that she was not sure he wanted to get engaged that fast but would want to continue the relationship after the show.  Something like that.  It really doesn't matter because Bryan is her choice.    

What is the rumor going around that Ben Higgins might be the next bachelor?  Anyone read that at least 3 times from different sources?  Talk about disaster, Jesus.  I don't believe they would do that to us.  I would consider it assault.  

7 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I also caught peter's mom statement that peter is ready for a family but not marriage. Rachel isn't going for that. 

She qualified that by saying too fast for proposal. 

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, waving feather said:

I saw those clips and is it just me or her excitement over Peter during the course of the season has dimmed and her excitement over Bryan has increased? I remember Rachel being absolutely giddy over Peter in their first date, but on that clip of them at the Farmer's market, she looked kinda bored.

Yeah I can see that but honestly, can you blame her? I don't agree that Bryan was always her Final 1 but rather in the beginning she really liked Peter and was in complete and utter lust with Bryan, judging by their night one makeout. However, as the weeks have gone by she's still having to pull and prod to get anything from Peter, whereas Bryan has remained steady and unwavering in his desire for her, his wanting to be with her, etc. While Peter, who is barely giving her much is talking about thinking of leaving because it's oh so hard for him to be in the hotel room and see other guys going on dates with her, Bryan never seems threatened by the other guys or bothered and remains focused on her.

Now sure, people may say Bryan just wants to win and is saying all the right things and that may be true but I can't fault Rachel for in the end deciding, "why am I putting so much effort in trying to get this guy to be into me and want me and here's this other guy who I am completely attracted to and really like and who is just as into me and has no problems showing that?" Either way, I will say that whoever she chose, for right now, she seems very happy with him. She was positively glowing at the ESPY's and stated that every day since filming ended she's been more sure that she made the right decision and is with the person she is meant to be with. So whoever it is, kudos and good luck to them.

[Wings]

@truthaboutluv,  yep.  I agree with every word.  

[roses]

There must be things they are not showing, even in Rachel's people blog I was surprised when she mentioned Peter gave her gifts. Its the same with Bryan I am sure they must talk and not only make out. The editing was bad on Nick's season but this season is pretty bad too.

Edited July 16, 2017 by roses

[leighdear]

The editors rarely show anything more than tiny snippets of meaningful conversation.  It's just not what this show is about and never has been.  They want talk about attraction, chemistry, sex & love at first site.  

They want heat and drama, punctuated by lips, tongues and groping.  Because they don't care about favorite books, childhood memories, future plans, etc.  That's what people talk about on real dates and in real relationships.  

[truthaboutluv]

7 hours ago, roses said:

The editing was bad on Nick's season but this season is pretty bad too.

Yes and that's why when some complained about Nick's season, others pointed out that it was par the course for the show and people would say the same thing for the next season. Every season starts off as one of the best in a long time. Then about Episode 4/5 things start going downhill and by the end, viewers are bored of the manipulative edits, TBC, dragging out of stupid storylines like that Lee and Kenny thing this season, etc. And the next season comes around and it's rinse, lather and repeat. 

[waving feather]

3 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yes and that's why when some complained about Nick's season, others pointed out that it was par the course for the show and people would say the same thing for the next season. Every season starts off as one of the best in a long time. Then about Episode 4/5 things start going downhill and by the end, viewers are bored of the manipulative edits, TBC, dragging out of stupid storylines like that Lee and Kenny thing this season, etc. And the next season comes around and it's rinse, lather and repeat. 

And every season, fans would think the new season would be different (Nick - he's older, so it would be a more grown-up season. Instead we got weeks of Corinne vs. Taylor.) Rachel - she's smart and down-to-earth, so we will get intelligent conversations with the men. However, most of the time they show her making out with the guys and the Kenny vs. Lee drama. TPTB doesn't care about making the lead or the lead's relationship with their chosen pick look good. I am sure Nick and Vanessa had fun together too, but they only showed them having gloomy conversations.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, waving feather said:

And every season, fans would think the new season would be different (Nick - he's older, so it would be a more grown-up season. Instead we got weeks of Corinne vs. Taylor.) Rachel - she's smart and down-to-earth, so we will get intelligent conversations with the men. However, most of the time they show her making out with the guys and the Kenny vs. Lee drama. TPTB doesn't care about making the lead or the lead's relationship with their chosen pick look good. I am sure Nick and Vanessa had fun together too, but they only showed them having gloomy conversations.

Yup, exactly. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

I think this show would be a lot more interesting and entertaining if it just recorded what was actually going on instead of creating a dramatic story and misleading the audience for a big reveal  (Wait, whose shoes are those getting out of the limo at the end? Omg the suspense is killing me? Nah, by then I'm sick of editing monkey hijinks). They should run an online-only series of minimally edited-for-time-and-continuity episodes showing interactions as they really happened imo. The element of surprise is highly overrated. And if the lead wants to get rid of someone (e.g., a Whaboom and his antagonist Blake R., or a Lee, any Lee-like person), let her.

Edited July 16, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[truthaboutluv]

I don't mind the whole trying to create suspense on who the lead picks and even some drama because at the end of the day this is an entertainment show and many viewers would complain if they were just showing everyday conversations. As much as some complain, people do like the drama that comes with the show. That said, I just feel like the producers don't have a good sense of balance with those things. By all means, show some drama but don't focus multiple episodes on it at the expense of the lead's time and developing relationships with some contestants.

Take this season - viewers shouldn't have been subjected to multiple episodes of this Lee/Kenny drama instead of Rachel bonding or getting to know Matt and Adam so that when they make it to Final 6, most of the viewers have no freaking clue who they are. And then viewers are even more confused by Rachel's emotional breakdown when eliminating Matt because again, no one knows who he is or have any idea of any connection between them. The TBC episode crap needs to go. I have never seen a single comment of anyone enjoying this. 

And I think when it gets to the latter stages of the season, there should be more focus and emphasis on the romance and the relationships and less on edited/manipulated stuff like Dean's eccentric father so some viewers can rudely snark about or making it seem like Bryan's mom may be out to kill Rachel, etc. At that stage, with far less contestants and two hours to fill, show more of those conversations between the lead and the contestants so people truly get a sense of the relationships between them. 

[waving feather]

Yeah, I like drama. That's what reality TV is for but it seems they can't find a good balance for the past few seasons. Sad to say but I think this show would benefit learning from Jeff Probst and his team (the love-hate arc between Adam and Jay on MvJx was masterclass storytelling). Survivor is choke full of drama but most of the time I didn't feel like I was misled or that the drama dragged on for too long. People don't mind drama but when it's dragged out, it just became tedious.

[Bossley]

On 7/15/2017 at 2:36 PM, wings707 said:

What is the rumor going around that Ben Higgins might be the next bachelor?  Anyone read that at least 3 times from different sources?  Talk about disaster, Jesus.  I don't believe they would do that to us.  I would consider it assault.

I saw those Ben 2.0 articles. It's probably pure speculation, but still. If they wanted Ben 2.0, couldn't they just pick Dean? They're both young and have that boyish charm. Plus, Dean has a legitimate backstory whereas Ben's "unlovable" schtick felt random and manufactured for the show.

[DEL901]

15 hours ago, Bossley said:

I saw those Ben 2.0 articles. It's probably pure speculation, but still. If they wanted Ben 2.0, couldn't they just pick Dean? They're both young and have that boyish charm. Plus, Dean has a legitimate backstory whereas Ben's "unlovable" schtick felt random and manufactured for the show.

Dean's lost his opportunity by going on BiP and with his behaviour there (see BiP spoiler thread)

[JenE4]

Were the spoilers wrong? I thought I read here that Eric was F4 and Dean was F3, but maybe I've just remembered and had it in my head wrong all this time. 

[Irlandesa]

12 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Were the spoilers wrong? I thought I read here that Eric was F4 and Dean was F3, but maybe I've just remembered and had it in my head wrong all this time. 

No, the order was Dean F4, Eric F3, Bryan F2 and Peter F1 but a few weeks later Peter and Bryan got swapped.

[catrice2]

On 7/17/2017 at 8:04 AM, DEL901 said:

Dean's lost his opportunity by going on BiP and with his behaviour there (see BiP spoiler thread)

No big surprise.  He seems to be looking for validation and support. I'm sure he has convinced himself that "Bachelor Nation" is his family and he probably is seeking love, support, affirmation, etc. from being in this franchise.  Unfortunately what he appears to need is therapy.  All speculation...he could be perfectly normal and playing to the cameras. 

[NeverLate]

On 15/07/2017 at 0:36 PM, wings707 said:

That was a frankenbite.   His mother's "not necessarily" was not the answer to Rachael's question,  "do you think he is ready to marry."  She did say that she was not sure he wanted to get engaged that fast but would want to continue the relationship after the show.  Something like that.  It really doesn't matter because Bryan is her choice.    

What is the rumor going around that Ben Higgins might be the next bachelor?  Anyone read that at least 3 times from different sources?  Talk about disaster, Jesus.  I don't believe they would do that to us.  I would consider it assault.  

 

I'm hoping its just a rumor. Ben is so vanilla, I couldn't watch if you paid me. But if she doesn't choose Peter,I'm hoping he gets the gig, but hopefully looks a little more fun! No, a lot moire fun.

[Wings]

Just now, F. M. said:

I'm hoping its just a rumor. Ben is so vanilla, I couldn't watch if you paid me. But if she doesn't choose Peter,I'm hoping he gets the gig, but hopefully looks a little more fun! No, a lot moire fun.

Peter would probably decline.   Ben is a horrible choice but that is still in the rumor stage.  

[cinsays]

I don't understand why Dean would agree to go on Bachelor in Paradise.  Would he have had to commit to do that before the hometowns?  Why would someone so fragile want to continue to be exposed to possible heartache?  

[Sup wit dat]

Even though most of these engagements don't work out I still like the romantic proposal and keep my fingers crossed for them.

But this time when Rachel accepts the proposal from Bryan all I'll be thinking about is his mother and that'll pretty much kill the mood.  Rachel's in for a world of grief from that lady.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Sup wit dat

[Canada]

28 minutes ago, cinsays said:

I don't understand why Dean would agree to go on Bachelor in Paradise.  Would he have had to commit to do that before the hometowns?  Why would someone so fragile want to continue to be exposed to possible heartache?  

I ask that same question about a lot of people who appear on this franchise!

[catrice2]

I think that Reality Steve is a lot of the cause of all this ill will  towards contestants.  My understanding is that he has posted some "leading" comments about Dean, and that he has done this in the past on several contestants, especially Nick and some other people whose names I did not recognize from seasons past.  Viewers seem to take whatever he says about these people as actual fact.  I don't  know how many times someone has told me that Reality Steve said NO ONE liked Vanessa!!!!  (Sorry, Nick's season is really my only frame of reference) as if this is actual fact and he is having dinner with these people.   

I get recapping, spoiling and building a brand, but from what I understand he is borderline muckracking.....as if he gets some enjoyment from "exposing" these people, and seems to go after some more than others.  

It is sad to me that so many people are fueled by his comments that they judge contestants and react to whatever he is saying.  He is an instigator. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by catrice2

[comosedice]

1 hour ago, Sup wit dat said:

Even though most of these engagements don't work out I still like the romantic proposal and keep my fingers crossed for them.

But this time when Rachel accepts the proposal from Bryan all I'll be thinking about is his mother and that'll pretty much kill the mood.  Rachel's in for a world of grief from that lady.

The mom I think Rachel can handle. It's the impotent son who will cause her grief.  Imagine your man never taking your side or becomes a boy afraid to stand up to his mother to defend you. Rachel better push for them to live in Dallas.

[In2You]

3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I think that Reality Steve is a lot of the cause of all this ill will  towards contestants.  My understanding is that he has posted some "leading" comments about Dean, and that he has done this in the past on several contestants, especially Nick and some other people whose names I did not recognize from seasons past.  Viewers seem to take whatever he says about these people as actual fact.  I don't  know how many times someone has told me that Reality Steve said NO ONE liked Vanessa!!!!  (Sorry, Nick's season is really my only frame of reference) as if this is actual fact and he is having dinner with these people.   

I get recapping, spoiling and building a brand, but from what I understand he is borderline muckracking.....as if he gets some enjoyment from "exposing" these people, and seems to go after some more than others.  

It is sad to me that so many people are fueled by his comments that they judge contestants and react to whatever he is saying.  He is an instigator. 

This had nothing to do with Reality Steve. He only wishes he could have that much influence. This has everything to do with stan culture and some folks being too overly invested in this show and buying into the fairytale.

[DEL901]

16 hours ago, cinsays said:

I don't understand why Dean would agree to go on Bachelor in Paradise.  Would he have had to commit to do that before the hometowns?  Why would someone so fragile want to continue to be exposed to possible heartache?  

No, that's not the timing.  The Bachelorette finished filming a couple of months ago.  Bachelor Pad just started/stopped/restarted a few weeks ago.

[nutty1]

I saw on another big spoiler board where IG pictures posted separately by Bryan and Rachel match up (the houses, background, etc) They are really great sleuthers over there. Not that I ever doubted it for a moment, but that makes it 110% iron clad that she picks Bryan, IMO anyway.

[Bugs Meany]

On 7/13/2017 at 10:40 AM, dirtypop90 said:

Or Peter. She also said America will slowly fall in love with her F1 too or something like that. Cancels them both out because peter has been a favorite since day 1 and no one is falling in love with Bryan lol. The only guy she could be describing is Eric, and we know it is not him. 

I thought Eric had the opposite trajectory. Coming into the season he was "that fun guy who danced during the AtFR introductions." Then (at least for the first half of the season) he came across as moody/sulky.

Also, Ben Higgins will not be the next Bachelor. That story was pure clickbait.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Bugs Meany

[dirtypop90]

2 hours ago, Bugs Meany said:

I thought Eric had the opposite trajectory. Coming into the season he was "that fun guy who danced during the AtFR introductions." Then (at least for the first half of the season) he came across as moody/sulky.

Also, Ben Higgins will not be the next Bachelor. That story was pure clickbait.

I disagree. He went from irrelevant to annoying (for some people. I always liked him.) to pretty well-liked after his one-on-one and HTD.  But it really doesn't matter.  Bryan is clearly the chosen one. Rachel didn't know how this season would be edited when she made this statement. 

[CindyBee]

3 hours ago, nutty1 said:

I saw on another big spoiler board where IG pictures posted separately by Bryan and Rachel match up (the houses, background, etc) They are really great sleuthers over there. Not that I ever doubted it for a moment, but that makes it 110% iron clad that she picks Bryan, IMO anyway.

 

Saw that but for me,  Bryan was for sure was the final 1 not only after RS changed his prediction but when Rachel & Bryan starting to wear their matching watches.   Plus Bryan going radio silent over July 4th was another big clue.  

That said, I do hope they are getting ready for the huge backlash from the Peter crazies that is coming for them, which is just ridiculous but it always happens, more so when its someone who is perceived as being extra special like Peter.

[NeverLate]

21 hours ago, wings707 said:

Peter would probably decline.   Ben is a horrible choice but that is still in the rumor stage.  

Do you think he would? I dont find him every exciting,

[CindyBee]

According to RS, Peter was in LA this past weekend to meet with ABC/Producers to set the groundwork for him to become the next Bachelor.

Whether that happens or not, we'll see come late August/early September but the fact that he has already met with ABC means to me that he is indeed interested.

[Canada]

Blech.  Peter's so boring and weird looking.  I'm tired of the rehashing of contestants.  

[CindyBee]

4 minutes ago, Canada said:

Blech.  Peter's so boring and weird looking.  I'm tired of the rehashing of contestants.  

Well Peter is HUGELY popular on social media.  I've been following this show for a long time and since they have started recycling contestants back in Deanna's season, I'd say Peter has to be one of the all time favs.   So ABC would be stupid to ignore that as they'll have a built in audience and throw in some crazies for the wrong reason watchers like me and it should be another successful season for them. 

And They'll never, ever go back to an unknown lead--you can thank Matt the Brit for that as his season was a mess.  The only way would be if they were able to get a Z lister to do it like they are doing so in Australia with their new Bachelorette being Sophie Monk.

[truthaboutluv]

7 hours ago, CindyBee said:

 

Saw that but for me,  Bryan was for sure was the final 1 not only after RS changed his prediction but when Rachel & Bryan starting to wear their matching watches.   Plus Bryan going radio silent over July 4th was another big clue.  

That said, I do hope they are getting ready for the huge backlash from the Peter crazies that is coming for them, which is just ridiculous but it always happens, more so when its someone who is perceived as being extra special like Peter.

Bryan has been radio silent for most of the season, which was why the sleuthers had trouble pinning him down in the early weeks of the season, to the point where it was frustrating for them. One of the first things he did before the season began was to turn off his Instagram tags, which meant people couldn't tag him if they saw him in some airport or something. That was one of the first things that made the sleuthers on the other board suspect. Because it was obvious fairly quickly that he's actually not really into social media like many of these other people who come on the show. He's not on twitter, Snapchat and his Instagram posts are kind of bad. So for someone who's not social media savvy to think to turn off his tags seemed suspicious. 

 

Quote

Rachel & Bryan starting to wear their matching watches. 

The watch was the clincher for me. I could buy Bryan wearing the watch because why not, thing cost like $8,000 and if he wasn't broken up over not being chosen then whatever. But that some fans of Peter and Rachel were seriously trying to use the, "well it's an expensive watch" for Rachel wearing it was like, "really?" Rachel would wear the matching watch she got on a date with another guy while engaged to another guy and one who apparently, per Dean's media interviews, did not like Bryan very much.  

 

Quote

but the fact that he has already met with ABC means to me that he is indeed interested.

And yet I thought falling in love and proposing in two months was impossible and Peter was so level-headed and realistic for that. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Canada]

Blech.  It's going to be another Chris or Ben season for me, then.  Both guys I thought were boring as hell.

[CindyBee]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

And yet I thought falling in love and proposing in two months was impossible and Peter was so level-headed and realistic for that. 

Yeah where is the roll eyes emjoli when you need it.

I'm sure if Peter is chosen, he'll read his cue cards perfectly all over the place about how the process works blah, blah, blah when its all a bunch of nothing.

But as long as a crazy cast is in the mix, it should be ok.   If not, my Mondays come January will be free as I have bailed on boring guys before, mainly St. Sean.

[Madding crowd]

I think Peter is handsome, he comes from my home state and seems like a nice guy. Then again I don't take  all of this too seriously. I think he really likes Rachel but sees that she wants someone else. Why shouldn't he look elsewhere too?

[deSchenke]

9 hours ago, Bugs Meany said:

I thought Eric had the opposite trajectory. Coming into the season he was "that fun guy who danced during the AtFR introductions." Then (at least for the first half of the season) he came across as moody/sulky.

Also, Ben Higgins will not be the next Bachelor. That story was pure clickbait.

 

Well thank goodness for that!  (Regarding Ben)  His first season was boring enough.

[slade3]

46 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I think he really likes Rachel but sees that she wants someone else. Why shouldn't he look elsewhere too?

After watching the latest episode, both my husband and I thought it was very clear Rachel preferred Peter. We think it has been clear from the beginning that Rachel wanted Peter. I missed a chunk of the show because I refused to watch episodes with Lee after reading about his racist tweets from 2016, but every episode we've watched showed that Rachel wanted Peter more than anyone else.

But she clearly wanted a proposal more than Peter, so Peter's inability to say he was falling for her, and couldn't guarantee a proposal, seemed like a deal breaker. This news that Bryan is nearly 100% her choice doesn't surprise me right now.

For me, Peter could have said "I'm pretty sure I'll dump you in a few days if you choose me", and I still would have chosen him over Bryan after meeting Bryan's family. There were so many red flags during that visit, I ended the episode feeling super depressed that Rachel either didn't see them, or chose to ignore them, because she wanted to be engaged so badly. Even my husband, who is also a first-time viewer, was screaming at the TV "Run, Rachel!" during Bryan's hometown visit.

Bryan's mother gave us "mother-in-law from hell" vibes. I was turned off when she said something about the importance of Bryan choosing a woman who can be part of their family. Rachel countered her with "I want Bryan to be part of my family, as well" [paraphrase], and his mother dismissed that and changed the subject. A woman who is more concerned with making sure her son remains close to her than his own happiness, well, she is not a woman I'd want as my child's grandmother. 

But I have to say what turned me off most was when Rachel expressed concern about his mother and Bryan brushed it off by saying the issues between his mother and his ex were really more on the "other party's side" than his mother's. It seemed cowardly and unchivalrous to me. I don't know how badly things ended with the ex, but a gentleman would just not talk about her rather than blame her for a disagreement she had with an obviously overbearing mother.

Someone upthread wrote that Rachel should push for them to live in Dallas and I agree.

My husband is solidly in the camp that Peter had zero interest in Rachel. I'm in a different camp. I thought he was being cautious. I thought there was interest, but he was beginning to realize he didn't enjoy the process. I kept the door open to be wrong since the earlier news that he had put in his yearbook that he wanted to be on The Bachelor (or something like that), made me wonder if he really was playing the game all this time to ensure he was chosen as the next Bachelor. So this news that he has met with ABC producers is slightly disappointing because it means he was possibly insincere through this process. It's one of the reasons I can't be a regular viewer of a show like this. I just keep wondering if the contestants are just trying to get to the final 3 so they have a shot at being the next lead.

[Venee]

Why is no one considering that Eric may have won. Her clue was we wouldn't expect who won.  Anyone watching the show would think Bryan has this.

[slade3]

1 minute ago, Venee said:

Why is no one considering that Eric may have won. Her clue was we wouldn't expect who won.  Anyone watching the show would think Bryan has this.

I thought the spoilers were that the final two were Bryan and Peter.

[Madding crowd]

I agree with you that Peter liked Rachel and I saw some Chemistry when they were together. But I think he wasn't moving  fast enough for her and Peter saw how close she and Bryan were getting. I think he doesn't want to propose only to be shot down- he is being cautious. I think he and Rachel would be good together but if she insists on Bryan, I hope he is the next bachelor. It would be good to have a handsome bachelor that women swoon over.