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S13.E16: Who Is He (And What Is He to You)?

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Jackson and April must travel to Montana to operate on a young patient who requires a complex surgery. However, Jackson is having trouble concentrating on the task at hand, so April must step up and force him to focus.

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Jackson's father is the one who's actually Avery right? I mean Catherine became Avery by marriage and took over the foundation once her husband got away?

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On 3/11/2017 at 7:02 AM, lorbeer said:

Jackson's father is the one who's actually Avery right? I mean Catherine became Avery by marriage and took over the foundation once her husband got away?

I love the "got away"! Any sensible (or sensitive) person would eventually come to their senses and "get away" from Catherine. I just hope Richard will do that now, and not wait till later.

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Oh my fucking ... , I don't know who is worse April or the parents. I am going with April. If this ends with Jackson back with her, I am going to scream and fast forward through every single one of they scenes if I still watch.

Edited by SimoneS
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At least Daddy who hasn't practiced medicine in years didn't jump in and save the day at the last minute.

I like these stand alone episodes. The cast is so big that these episodes give time to tell a story.

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Fuck, not only is Jackson back with April, he is back to fawning over Catherine. I am so through. I will never get that fucking hour of my life back.

Those parents are dumbest asses to ever come along. 

The actress who plays April is usually mediocre and she was worst than that tonight.

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I was dreading this episode for obvious reasons. It was much better than I thought. I have to give props to casting the father looked like Harper Avery. The one thing this show does well is casting siblings/parents.

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28 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I was dreading this episode for obvious reasons. It was much better than I thought. I have to give props to casting the father looked like Harper Avery. The one thing this show does well is casting siblings/parents.

Eric Roberts has always been kind of hot, but he usually plays a really, really bad guy.  This time just kind of stupid.  He definitely had the blue eyes, but other than that, I didn't see any likeness with Jackson.   I hope this turn of events gets Jackson over being a ginormous jerk.

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3 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Eric Roberts has always been kind of hot, but he usually plays a really, really bad guy.  This time just kind of stupid.  He definitely had the blue eyes, but other than that, I didn't see any likeness with Jackson.   I hope this turn of events gets Jackson over being a ginormous jerk.

He looked liked Chelcie Ross who played his father Harper Avery in season 6. I agree besides the eyes he didn't look like Jackson.

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16 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Eric Roberts has always been kind of hot, but he usually plays a really, really bad guy.  This time just kind of stupid.  He definitely had the blue eyes, but other than that, I didn't see any likeness with Jackson.   I hope this turn of events gets Jackson over being a ginormous jerk.

And he is several years younger than Debbie Allen, so that was weird.  I get the feeling there's a lot more to the story of why he left.

Edited by Jillybean

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No thanks to Jackson and April getting back together, even though it was clear that's where the episode was heading.  I guess they forgot that heart-wrenching episode detailing all the reasons why they don't work, huh?  They can't just be adults and co-parent their daughter, this romance has to be forced.

I saw zero resemblance between Williams and Roberts.  Nothing against Eric Roberts, they just could have done better on that front.  That said, I'm sure Daddy Avery will be making another appearance.

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I thought it was an ok episode but didn't buy Eric Roberts as his father.

On a side note, this show (as well as other TV shows and movies) need to get creative and come up with a different hook up move than the jump and wrap legs around man....it's so cliche.

Edited by Laurie4H
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44 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

And he is several years younger than Debbie Allen, so that was weird.  I get the feeling there's a lot more to the story of why he left.

I kind of liked him.  And I liked that he wasn't "pushy" with Jackson.  He knew he'd deeply wounded Jackson, so he just left it there.  Also, he was more interested in "are you happy?" than "what is your career about.  I think there is a HUGE backstory there, and I'm kind of hoping we get to see some of it play out.  I love/hate Catherine.  I love she's so strong, but I hate that absolutely NO ONE will stand up to her and tell her when she's full of shite! 

Lots of possibilities with the Jackson/April "competition" for her attention, particularly if the ex shows up.  Also, Jackson is going to have to consider "you were born to it (money/Avery), I was born FOR it" (Catherine, and her ex apparently agreed wholeheartedly).  I also see Jackson wanting to get over being pissed, because his father is the only one who knows what the hereditary "burden" of being an Avery is all about. 

More to come (hoping!).

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1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

And he is several years younger than Debbie Allen, so that was weird.  I get the feeling there's a lot more to the story of why he left.

His hard living has aged him enough that I don't see any obvious difference in their ages.

I actually don't see Robert ever returning.  This episode served as a strong rebuke of the character in the same way Jackson rejected him.  He didn't show enough guilt to make me think he'd try making amends or anything like that.  It didn't feel unfinished.

Add me to the group disappointed with the Jackson and April reunion.  I suppose there's still a chance it was just ex sex brought on by euphoria and boredom, but I doubt it.  I still don't understand how April ended up tagging along.  I know Catherine manipulated it so April would replace Meredith, but I don't understand why Meredith was going with Jackson in the first place.

Edited by Starscream
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Guest

I like April and Jackson, so this was a great episode for me.

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I haven't finished watching but I did spoil myself. 

One point I want to make is I am not okay with the "something else is bothering me so I'm going to treat you like crap" trope and the girl is just okay with it when she realizes the root problem. It's a classic Alex Karev move that Jackson adopted. So the first half of this episode bothered me, especially his constant dismissive attitude over aprils abilities as a doctor. 

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1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

And he is several years younger than Debbie Allen, so that was weird.

6 years? It happens. Plus, Catherine and Robert aren't necessarily the same ages as Debbie and Eric.  

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

I saw zero resemblance between Williams and Roberts.  Nothing against Eric Roberts, they just could have done better on that front.  That said, I'm sure Daddy Avery will be making another appearance.

While I didn't necessarily see a resemblance, there's nothing about the way either of them looks that makes me think that they couldn't be father and son. 

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I'm surprised that Jackson's dad didn't recognize him. In today's digital age, I'm sure there's a giant website regarding the Avery Foundation with a picture and biography of Jackson and the other board members. I wonder if anyone from that hospital knew that an Avery worked at that bar/restaurant. 

I would love to see him back just once in Seattle to get Catherine's side of the story. She has such a strong personality that I can't help but wonder if he once inquired about Jackson and she told him to stay away; maybe the grandfather refused to help him and sided with Catherine since he abandoned his family.  His father could have just kept quiet because he didn't want to ruin Jackson's relationship with Catherine. 

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Don't know whether to appreciate that the poorly integrated Jackson and April once again got all their narrative action confined to an episode without most of the other regulars, where they're better able to thrive, or condemn the series for yet again avoiding another attempt to bridge their gulf within the ensemble by utilizing the two normally, which is probably more conducive to long-term success.

At any rate, I've never been enthusiastic about these two as individual characters (she's broad, he's thin), but this was like all the year's prior standalone installments: solid. Truthfully though, I'm glad that after months of knowing this entry has been on the horizon, we're finally past it. And despite my reservations regarding their presence, I'd nevertheless like to see the show do a better job with both (together and separately) in the future... so this kind of dreaded-but-not-dreaful episode isn't an annual necessity. 

Edited by upperco
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I thought Jacksons dad was dead. But then again maybe he was mentioned as a dead beat and I didn't pay attention. 

I mean eh? I could care less about JAckson and April and Japril or whatever so.. 

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I liked the Jackson part of this. I don't care about the Jackson/April part. Especially after they both gave Jackson zero choice in April going on the trip. It was manipulative of both of them. The man asked you to leave him alone. Leave him alone.

The transplant needed two surgeons and I'm assuming Jackson asked Mere to go with him. Catherine and April steamrolled him and decided April was going.

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27 minutes ago, Dee said:

I still want to push April into the sea.

Even though I liked Dee's post, I don't want necessarily want April pushed into the Pacific. Given the choice between that and Japril though?  I just can't root for them after the runaway wedding, the restraining order, etc.

Even though Jackson has a new appreciation for his mother, Jackson's knowledge of how Catherine is treating her current husband, and the viewer's knowledge that Catherine said that Robert initially fought for custody suggests that the story isn't necessarily as simple as Robert is a terrible deadbeat dad. And, I say that as someone with a (slightly) terrible deadbeat dad who tried to be (slightly) less of a deadbeat after I found him.

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Despite if you like japril or not I thought this was one of the better put together episodes of the season. From the acting, writing, directing, heck even the cinematography! There was a lot of care put into this ep from all angles and it really showed. 

I mentioned before I can't stand the "lashing out" trope, but I will say I'm glad April just wasn't gonna be bulldozed by it. She knew Jackson well enough to know the way to get him to deal with his crap with his father was to make it about the patient. I'm not sure I completely buy the connection between Jackson putting his dad issues to bed with a rekindling of sorts with April, especially since their hook up was more an adrenaline rush than anything else but...

i liked how the morning after scene wasn't anything angsty or even unsure. It's more an affirmination to their past and how they still have a connection. They are giving each other heart eyes and two years ago I would have completely melted into a puddle...now it just leaves me happy but hesitant. Cause all the crap from before, and I mean way back to Samuel to this crap with minnick, has still happened and they both still have things they should say to one another. And again, the ways he's treated her the last few episodes and the beginning of this...it leaves such a sour taste in my mouth...it's not ok.

Eric Roberts as daddy Avery was jaw dropping casting, I didn't expect it. He did well with not making him a villain but you don't feel for him either. When he said how happy he was...I felt jacksons devastation at that, he didn't even hesitate. That's hard to hear and it was heart breaking to watch, and I'm glad he put the kibosh on him talking about how difficult Catherine is. I've seen the sentiment in fandom, but you know what? Through Catherine's stubbornness and high intensity, she was there for Jackson. May not be in ways he wanted or appreciated, but end of the day, Catherine was there! That means something.

I know japril isn't everyone's cup of tea but I thought Jesse Williams really hit it out the park this episode.

Edited by moonorchid
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1 hour ago, Court said:

The transplant needed two surgeons and I'm assuming Jackson asked Mere to go with him. Catherine and April steamrolled him and decided April was going.

My problem with it is that the Avery Bozeman hospital has surgeons.  Jackson wasn't requiring a specialist that only GSM could provide.  Even if the argument is that he wanted to work with somebody with whom he could prepare in advance of the trip, it doesn't work because April was a last minute addition.

Maybe it's just another case of GSM surgeons being so far superior to everybody else.  It's not exactly a glowing endorsement of the Avery brand if its hospitals are full of losers like defunct Dillard.

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Hallelujah! I was so tired of the Japril "feud." Although I felt the machinations were contrived, I'm ready to be past it, no matter the vehicle. I love Japril.

The surgery? Are you kidding me? LOL Which suddenly reminds me: what happened to the printer?

On 03/11/2017 at 7:02 AM, lorbeer said:

Jackson's father is the one who's actually Avery right? I mean Catherine became Avery by marriage and took over the foundation once her husband got away?

Yes, and that's so weird. She has always been "Averys do this, Averys do that, Avery are everything. " How weird that the deadbeat dad is the real Avery.

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I honestly thought the breakup of Japril was one of the more realistic things the show has done. Two people who loved each other at one point but just couldn't make it work due to too many differences and things happening. The show went wrong in beating us over the head with the tedious arguments - so much so that I  actually felt like I was in the middle of the break up by how exhausting and draining I found them. I liked this season that they seemed to find solid ground again with the arrival of their daughter but I'm disappointed that the show couldn't just leave them be as friends. Of all the couples I've watched Greys anhilate over the years this was one I agreed with. 

I really hope if they're back together that I his is just it and there'll be no more shouting matches or dick moves by either. They can just be happy or have dramatic storylines outside of their relationship.

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When April as rolling her eyes at Jackson, I was rolling my eyes at her. Yes, April, how dare he try to relate to three different parents by telling them that he, too, is a father? Obviously her usual method of shrilly steamrolling people would have been the better approach to both families.

I was surprised that Jackson was so friendly to Dr. Cordon later in the episode considering what a shitty position he put Jackson and April in by expecting them to convince the father to donate his son's organs.

Ugh, I am so sick of Jackson and April's on again/off again/fighting/having sex cycle. Look, it's possible to care about another person and enjoy having sex with them while still acknowledging that your long term relationship failed and that you shouldn't go down that road again. This is what drives me crazy about people who break up and make up a million times. Think about the reasons why this didn't work the first (and second and third) time around. Have any of those things changed? Have either of you fundamentally changed? If not, then you are heading straight towards breaking up again and I don't need to see it for the millionth time.

The one really good thing April did this week was actually something that she didn't do - she didn't tell Jackson he had to have a relationship with his dad or that Harriet needs her grandfather. I absolutely LOATHE when people try to tell other people that they have to make an effort with their parents/grandparents/siblings or they'll regret it later. Nope, not true. If that's true for you, great, but don't force that upon someone else. Just because someone is blood related to you doesn't mean you are under any obligation to forgive them or make nice with them or maintain contact with them. Being related doesn't give you a pass to do shitty things.

I don't know what the exact circumstances are regarding Robert. Maybe after he lost the custody battle, he had to agree to stay away from Jackson. Maybe Robert's family agreed to pay child support in exchange for Robert keeping out of his life. Maybe his family threatened to cut him off financially if he tried to contact Jackson. I have no idea. All I know is that he chose not to try contacting Jackson after he turned 18 (which is when Katherine would no longer be his sole guardian) so Jackson has the right to make his own choice not to have a relationship with him.

I get that some people aren't interested in galas and fundraisers and a high pressure career. That's fine. You're allowed to decide that you don't want to do those things anymore. But having a child is a lifelong commitment. The two positive things I will say about Robert is that although he was obviously friendly, he didn't try to pressure Jackson in any way once they finally met (and later when Jackson told him this was the end of the line, he didn't try to change his mind) and he just wanted to know if Jackson was happy.

On a shallow note, I didn't like the song they used for the surgery and the pre-sex hallway scenes. It just didn't go well with the tone of either scene. But on the other hand, it wasn't a shitty whiny emo cover of an 80s song, so job well done!

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I would love to understand how Catherine ended up with all the money. Though I'm just guessing (and I personally have horrible facial recognition skills) wouldn't you have a flicker of recognition when you see your child? I guess that might depend on when you left, not if he was an infant but maybe if he was a toddler?

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4 hours ago, Starscream said:

My problem with it is that the Avery Bozeman hospital has surgeons.  Jackson wasn't requiring a specialist that only GSM could provide.  Even if the argument is that he wanted to work with somebody with whom he could prepare in advance of the trip, it doesn't work because April was a last minute addition.

Maybe it's just another case of GSM surgeons being so far superior to everybody else.  It's not exactly a glowing endorsement of the Avery brand if its hospitals are full of losers like defunct Dillard.

Jackson didn't add April. Catherine and April did and manipulated it by surprising him as he was boarding the plane. 

My guess is he did prepare with Mere beforehand. That's why everyone kept calling April Dr. Grey.

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I sort of liked this episode. It was relief to not have 3,999 different storylines and characters to follow. The scenery was breathtaking. I liked the décor of the hotel in which Jackson and April stayed.

On the other hand, it was exhausting to have so much anger thrust upon us. Everyone was thisclose to punching each other in the throat. First, Jackson was angry that April was a last-minute substitution for Meredith. Then both he and April were mad at the Bozeman doctor for dumping the responsibility of trying to convince the first dad to donate his son's organs in their laps. That first dad was so upset that a huge vein was bulging in his forehead and temple. Then April was angry at Jackson for mentioning his fatherhood to both sets of parents. The two moms were furious at everyone! I honestly thought one of them was going to have a heart attack. And then of course, Jackson was angry at his father. April was angry at Jackson for not mentioning his father just so happened to live and work in Bozeman. The hostility level was off the charts and it was wearying.

I don't think we'll see Jackson's father again. As interesting as it would be to know the backstory of his departure - how old was Jackson when he left? Did he ever make contact with Catherine at all since his departure? and so on - those details could probably be provided by Catherine, to an extent. And I don't think there's anything to be gained by Jackson and his father trying to create a relationship at this point. They now both have plenty of baggage to carry around: for the dad, much regret (maybe) that he won't ever get to know Harriet, and perhaps some regret that he wasn't involved in Jackson's upbringing. For Jackson, unresolved anger - I feel as if he didn't really say what he wanted to say, other than the bit about the commitment of being a parent. I feel as if his father is always going to be a lingering source of anxiety and anger for Jackson, but perhaps Jackson will just compartmentalize it. And now, if he and April are reuniting, that could go a long, long way to ensuring his future happiness. Although he sees Catherine in a different light - raising him by herself and embracing the Avery legacy - it's been pointed out that she still has A LOT to answer for vis a vis her treatment of Richard, etc.

Nit-picky logistical question: it was supposed to be Jackson and Meredith going to Montana, and I would guess that Meredith was supposed to meet him at the plane? If so - if Meredith was to have accompanied him - why was Catherine in the car with him heading to the airport? Now, of course Catherine knew that Mer couldn't make it, and knew she'd have to watch Harriet, but Jackson didn't know any of that. Wasn't he curious as to why his mother was going with him to the airport? I just found that odd. Either Jackson would've found out in Seattle that Mer couldn't make it (wouldn't she herself have called him and told him??), or, Jackson would've gone to the airport alone, thinking he would be meeting Mer on the tarmac. To me, there didn't seem to be any reason for Catherine to be tagging along, regardless of who was supposed to be there (Catherine could've taken Harriet from April at their home, no need for April to bring Harriet to the airport just to hand her off to Catherine). Hope that query makes sense because it irked me. I feel as if Mer would've reached out to Jackson directly, before departure, to advise that she couldn't make it.

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What the hell was that? The April/Jackson hour? No thanks! I realized pretty much right away that they were going to eat up the entire ep so I turned the channel. Sorry Grey's. You are losing me.

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Was the Bozeman doctor the same actor who plays the scientist in the Cheezit commercials (the guy who determines whether the cheese has aged enough)? It kept pulling me out of the moment since both wear a white lab coat. Or was I imagining that?

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Either (a) Jackson wasn't planning to go straight home and said Catherine could drop April off at the apartment, or (b) the writers forgot that they live together. Either one is equally plausible.

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Wake me up next Thursday, this was booooooring. I didn't find the case super compelling nor did I find daddy drama compelling.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, nothing good comes from an Eric Roberts appearance. 

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11 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

On a side note, this show (as well as other TV shows and movies) need to get creative and come up with a different hook up move than the jump and wrap legs around man....it's so cliche.

Yes!  I am so sick of seeing this.

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1 hour ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Was the Bozeman doctor the same actor who plays the scientist in the Cheezit commercials (the guy who determines whether the cheese has aged enough)? It kept pulling me out of the moment since both wear a white lab coat. Or was I imagining that?

That was Wally Langham.  He has been on a a lot of TV shows including The Larry Sanders Show and Veronica's Closet.  When I saw his name in the opening credits I assumed he was going to have a much bigger role than he did.  However, he did basically ruin his career in an incident where he attacked a  photographer (I think) and used gay slurs toward them.

I am onboard with whoever said they are over the Japril feuding and don't mind seeing them together raising their daughter.  This has been coming since April went on that date several episodes ago.  I loved seeing Jackson get his own episode.   Anytime I can look at JW for a whole episode I am totally in.  

My guess is that his father had a mental breakdown at some point from all of the pressure or he had serious drug issues.  There is something about him (could just be Eric Roberts demeanor though).  I think he took off and no one really ever heard from him again.  Catherine and Jackson did seem to know he lived in Bozeman and where he worked so obviously they have been keeping track (private investigator maybe?).  Jackson's father apparently did not even come around for his own father's funeral or else they would have seen each other more recently.  I got the sense he really is all about himself and just does not care about Jackson so much.  There are plenty of deadbeat Dads out there like that.  They have no contact with their children for years and then the kid finds them and they act no different than if they saw a long lost high school acquaintance. I found nothing in the conversation Jackson's father was having with him that indicated any level of caring above what that sort of interaction would require.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the future.  Will Jackson's father swoop into Grey/Sloane with a life threatening condition that only Catherine and Richard can cure?  Will little Harriet require a transplant or bone marrow donation that can only come from the elder Avery?  Stay tuned for the canned plot line to come.

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