S21.E10: Week 10/S21.E11: The Women Tell All

[Kbilly]

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I think Nick likes strong women because of his mother - she definitely has what a friend calls the "I'd like to speak to the manager" vibe.

Totally. I think Nick is one of the more thoughtful Bachelors we've had but the Dancing with the Stars decision really takes away the good will he's built up. The man's occupation truly is "reality show enthusiast."

I also fully understand that Volleyball Crisis was not a big deal but the cover-up is what made it so! It's become Bachelor Nation's Greatest Shame.

1922austenlover Agreed. The last few seasons they have made a lot of poor editing choices which really make the love story suffer. We don't even get a chance to buy it.

[1992austenlover]

5 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I've always liked Nick, even on his first (of now five) shows he's been on. But you know how something you think is so cute and adorable at the beginning of a relationship evolves into something that makes you want to stab that person to death later on? I was in the other room when this episode started so only heard Nick, and WOW, his lisp is really noticeable if you aren't seeing him speak. Yikes. I'll have to keep my distance from him for sure.

lol Personally, I've had the opposite transition in my opinions of Nick. Though I never wanted to stab him to death, I didn't have a great opinion of him in the beginning but grew to find him "cute and adorable" over time. It's strange--I didn't find him attractive at all on Andi's season and the lisp thing kind of annoyed me back then but now I don't really mind it. I've come to a point where I've accepted that I've accepted Nick and I think that he's a good person overall.  In hindsight, I do find it kind of funny, though--it's weird how perceptions can change over time. 

[DEL901]

I agree with all the posters that Nick likes strong women.  At the hot / cold date, it was Vanessa who was having fun and almost pushing Nick to do it... did you see after the first dip he just ran for shelter and left her in the dust, LOL.  But then she got him out there again and again and they had fun.  Usually it is the Bachelor coaxing the shy/frightened bachelorette to try stuff.  

[slowpoked]

I still find it funny that the Bachelor/ette no longer puts up the "mystery" of whether or not the couple had sex in the fantasy suite. For me, that was the fun of the fantasy suite episode before - "Did they or didn't they?" But hey, it's 2017, so get on with the times, I guess.

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

For the record, I'm not taking any side on this or saying that I believe everything that was reported was fact because it's all hearsay and perception is reality. I was merely giving an explanation since someone wondered about the whole volleyball date. As I've said before, I don't really judge these people for not getting along or someone not liking the other while the show was filming because let's face it, this show is bred for drama. Journey for love my behind - sure if a couple comes out of it, great. But these producers are there to make these people as crazy as possible, heighten insecurities and tension and hope for explosions that will make for great television. I also have no interest in pitting women against each other. Society does enough of that. 

No worries, I didn't take that way at all! I was just adding to your commentary because the whole volleyball incident was explained as the 'big thing' that production made a a point not to pass through to the final cut, however, I saw the Jasmine/Alexis interview just yesterday and the way they were answering the question about the volleyball incident made me wonder if there was actually another big event that went down that yet again, production decided not to include in the final cut (or maybe the cameras weren't around).

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

No worries, I didn't take that way at all! I was just adding to your commentary because the whole volleyball incident was explained as the 'big thing' that production made a a point not to pass through to the final cut, however, I saw the Jasmine/Alexis interview just yesterday and the way they were answering the question about the volleyball incident made me wonder if there was actually another big event that went down that yet again, production decided not to include in the final cut (or maybe the cameras weren't around).

That would probably be the so called big argument between Vanessa and Rachel in Bimini. All of this is detailed in the Spoilers thread for anyone interested in the gossip regarding the season. 

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did you see after the first dip he just ran for shelter and left her in the dust, LOL.  

Yeah after the first time when he was trying to be all gentlemanly and holding her hand, he actually yelled out every man for himself and took off for the sauna. It was actually pretty funny.

And Nick still has no clue what the hell Liz is talking about, as per his People magazine blog:

Quote

I will say, the one thing I still don’t understand is what Liz had to say. When I watched her speak with Chris Harrison, I found that she still didn’t make much sense to me. I’m not aware of any attempt she made at connecting with me before we met again that first night at the mansion. So watching back, I have no idea what she is talking about. If this was something she was so adamant about, I wish she had said something to me when I came onto the floor so we could clear things up. I guess Liz and I will just remain in a state of misunderstanding.

Edited March 7, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[hnygrl]

Is it over? No? One more week?

Oh poop. I'm tire of this season. It's all over the place and so bad it posts its own spoilers. I don't think Vanessa and Nick are going to make it when neither one knows the meaning of the word "compromise."

Neither one loves the other enough to compromise on anything. Nick wants what Nick wants plus Vanessa.

Vanessa? Well, Vanessa wants what Vanessa wants. Period. end of story.  She's too strong of a woman for Nick. 

And Nick's not a weak-enough man for Vanessa.

I know Nick likes strong, independent women, but he's probably met his match in Vanessa...she's not ready to cut the apron strings yet. And those are some seriously strong (titanium) apron strings. 

[truthaboutluv]

Really interesting interview with Nick. It's from last week and is the magazine Sharleen recaps for. This interview is a perfect example of why I feel like the season was lacking not because of Nick but the producers and the editing. Because I think Nick is probably one of the most articulate and expressive leads the show has ever had. Few interesting tidbits. 
 

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So we’re down to Vanessa and Raven (because it’s obviously not Rachel). We won’t ask you who you choose in the end but we do want to know, when it was down to the Final Two were you as torn as Ben Higgins, who realized he was in love with two women? Or was the choice more obvious?

You’ve seen the season progress and you know, some people have said, “Nick looked guarded” or “every time someone says ‘I love you’ you send them home.” But it was really important to me to hold back and really know that I was sure of my feelings before I said those words to anyone. Every decision is the most difficult decision until the end, not to sound cliché but that is the reality. So I can’t say it was easier than Ben’s because I don’t know Ben but I can say that I didn’t fall in love with two people. I deliberately held back from allowing myself to feel those feelings until I knew what I wanted to do.

So much for that season finale promo of him supposedly claiming to be in love with both Vanessa and Raven.  Yeah I didn't buy it even before reading this.

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Some of our readers feel that your major relationships on the show wouldn’t make it IRL. Did you have any doubts about proposing?

I don’t think anyone who’s gotten engaged in Bachelor World could say they weren’t taking a leap of faith. It’s hard to explain because obviously that world is such a bubble where all you’re really doing is feeling things. So even being in that moment it’s not like you’re detached from reality, you’re aware that you’re taking a leap of faith but you still feel the sincerity of your feelings. There’s a reason why relationships have succeeded in that world and there’s a reason why relationships have failed. I always kind of laugh a little bit because sometimes Bachelor World gets a little criticism when relationships don’t work. But I think most relationships don’t work in life, not to sound pessimistic. A lot of people have heartbreak and a lot of people have a handful of ex boyfriends and girlfriends before they finally meet someone and I think Bachelor World is no different.

I love this answer because it's really true and what I've always been saying about the show, it's really a crap shoot. The odds of the relationships not lasting from the franchise are a lot higher than ordinary, everyday relationships because of the nature of the show - the couple really hasn't spent that much time together, they were dating other people, sometimes trust is an issue especially if you have a situation like Ben telling JoJo he loved her too or Andi sleeping with Nick and Josh not being able to get past it, etc. But at the end of the day it's really a crap shoot like any relationship. And just like the millions of relationships that happen everyday, some work and some don't. 

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You talked about wanting a “raw” relationship on your last date with Danielle L. Can you elaborate what that means to you? 

The Internet had fun with that [laughs]. I think Corinne is the perfect example—I’m not interested in the Stepford Housewife thing, I’m not interested in the girl who has the perfect resume. I’m more interested in the person who’s just unapologetically themselves. And that doesn’t mean they’re rude, that doesn’t mean they’re inconsiderate, it just means they’re open to talking about their insecurities and fears. Someone who’s just willing to be themselves, willing to be open, and not afraid of saying the wrong thing. When you really feel the most comfortable with someone is when you know you can be yourself, you’re okay with letting them know your insecurities and fears and I think that’s more raw and authentic. When you start always trying to be perfect and say the perfect thing and never try to rub anyone the wrong way, that to me is kind of dull and it’s not something I’m interested in. And I think that’s what I mean by raw, it’s more uncut. It’s not perfected. It’s perfectly imperfect.

And if he ends up picking Vanessa like most think he will, I think that answer pretty much explains it as clearly as possibly. 

Flare Interview

Edited March 8, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[catrice2]

All I can say  (again) is that whomever wins, loses.   I cannot understand the interest in Nick.  He comes across as insecure and emotional.  I'll bet most of the women got home and realized their "feelings" were a result of being locked up with other women for a period of time with no other men.  I can't believe that any of them have deep, long term feelings for Nick, in fact I think most of them acknowledged the exposure and free trips were way more exciting.  I know this show does not show you everything about a person, but I cannot imagine that he is a lot different than what has been shown.  

I saw snippets of Rachel's date and then had to watch Supergirl on DVD.   I have a certain type and I tried with both Ben and Nick but they both came off as boyish and not manly.  I was more disappointed in Nick because he was older, I expected more maturity. 

There is something wrong with me because although I respect her story, I have no interest in Kristina.   I am really, really trying to understand the addiction of this show,  This board is WAY more interesting

[dleighg]

Just now, catrice2 said:

This board is WAY more interesting

LOL. The only thing that makes watching it possible as part of my life.

[call me ishmael]

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I thought this was probably what she was doing, too. All I was thinking during that convo was that it really makes more sense for Nick to move to Canada than the other way around. Nick can do his 'job' wherever, but Vanessa's job is going to require a lot more work if she relocates. Although she might just stop teaching and do something else. Oh who am I kidding, they're not going to get married, so none of this matters!

Totally agree.  I realize this is the bachelor that hotbed of advanced gender thinking but I'm pretty sure that special education teachers get certified and it isn't clear to me how easily that can be moved across national lines.  On the other hand, digital business person with some some idea can happen almost anywhere.  So after he gets eliminated from DWTS he should move to Canada.  If his business fails he can always join Jillian on Love it or List it.

[violet and green]

I really enjoyed the Women Tell All. It was a bit shouty and I was internally shouting for god's sake shut up to both Whitney ( you got four minutes of footage the entire series, shut up!) and Lacey (who I have no memory of whatsoever) and whoever else I have no recall of who was doing the majority of the question asking (shut the fuck up! show me some more footage of Jamie's weird new look instead), and I was a bit disappointed the episode with ole chokey Jasmine wasn't brought up - but it was such fun seeing Taylor look so cross all through the show, and further sullying her own reputation as a mental health expert. Good times!

Plus I loved the Corinne show. I was thrilled the bulk of the WTA was devoted to her. Her smile is so contagious. I just find her eminently endearing, good-natured and resilient, and very sad in that moment when she said, "I'm not the brightest crayon in the box".  About the only thing I like about Nick on this show are those moments when he defends Corinne, and points out her values.

Speaking of which when the schoolmarm was in the hot tub getting all pointy and started on about "core values" I thought she would say something logical like "fidelity, loyalty, honesty" but no - Sunday lunch for three hours with the extended family. That is not a "core value". That is a non-negotiable rule.

I don't get all these references to Nick liking "strong women"-- in reference to women showing signs of being bossy, domineering, rigid, controlling, entitled, unilateral decision makers, angry bulldozers, etc etc. Or just having a proper job! She's not a topless cocktail waitress, ergo she's a strong woman.

(Nick to my mind does want a woman to dominate him, but also coddle him. God bless! I hope he does find someone to take him in hand and snip off those horrible little curls from that ridiculous poodle pompadour he's currently sporting, and shave off that dreadful trendy beard, also, while she's knocking him into line.)

I can't see him with Raven, so I guess she's just there as friendly cannon-fodder. 

I do not find Vanessa "strong" - steely, however, yes. It does not bode well.

Cannot wait for next week's deeply unromantic conclusion! What a fizzer of a season. I am so glad they are concluding it in the snow - that does give it a fairy-tale feel and all the footage of reindeer in the snow is lovely to watch, and makes up for the zero fucks I give about Nick and his boring-woman choice.

[jade.black]

Vanessa: I'm proud to be a Canadian. I'm not compromising on my weekly family dinners which means you will be moving to Canada. Nick: I'm proud to be an American. I'm just as stubborn as you. Me: This is not going to work out. Can't wait to watch that train wreck on the after show if you go through with this impractical engagement.  

I also wanted to point out that unless Nick is going to continue bumming around forever doing reality TV or selling things on social media, he will not be able to legally work in Canada until they get married. I've looked into working in Canada as an American. It's a no-go.

Raven's orgasm montage was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen on this show... but I kind of enjoyed it. Bet if he picked Vanessa, she was thrilled to hear how pleased Raven was with Nick's bedroom skills! (I figure maybe some of these leads do fool around with all of them- you'd kind of have to if you want them to think you're actually considering them, right?- but don't necessarily have actual sex with anyone but their F1. Maybe his skills she was raving about were of the oral variety.)

Why was everyone cheering for Corinne? I'm no Taylor fan but I felt awful for her when she was basically forced to apologize with the expectation that she'd get an apology in return, but then Corinne condescendingly thanked her and everyone just dropped it.

Corinne is just a drunk toddler.

Danielle L said something about Nick not thinking she had the mental capacity to understand why he cut her or something. Danielle, I don't think you have the mental capacity for much of anything at all. She was clearly auditioning for the Bachelorette and her terrible fake crying and stone face when Rachel came out did not hide any of that.

Danielle M. needs to stop wearing garments that glaringly display her lack of a chest. (Sorry, shallow.)

Of all the Jerry Springer-esque bullshit in the after show, what I did love was how freaking excited all the girls seemed for Rachel to be the next Bachelorette. I loved when they couldn't even help from shouting out all the wonderful things about her. She also had my favorite moment in the bloopers when that dude yelled at her that she wasn't funny and she just couldn't stop laughing. I really, really like her and genuinely enjoy watching her, so I can't wait for her season and hopefully a hot, diverse, mature group of guys!

Kristina still looked beautiful. On any other season I would hope she would have been chosen as Bachelorette.

Did Liz take Ecstasy before this show?! What the fuck was that nonsense? First she had some other guy she was now mysteriously waiting for when she first slept with Nick, then when asked to follow up on her actions she just devolved into some girl power, spiritual journey self-help bullshit and instead of reacting with the appropriate confusion and concern they should have shown this woman clearly having a mental break, these women who clearly have no brain cells start cheering?! Nonsense. Total nonsense.

I loved Whitney a little bit for being the only one to look at Liz with a "what the fuck" expression and also tell Corinne and Taylor that they were both condescending and terrible (the terrible part was implied).

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, call me ishmael said:

Totally agree.  I realize this is the bachelor that hotbed of advanced gender thinking but I'm pretty sure that special education teachers get certified and it isn't clear to me how easily that can be moved across national lines.  On the other hand, digital business person with some some idea can happen almost anywhere.  So after he gets eliminated from DWTS he should move to Canada.  If his business fails he can always join Jillian on Love it or List it.

But then he'd have to move to Vancouver...no way he makes it to lunch every Sunday with that distance! haha. 

[waving feather]

1 hour ago, jade.black said:

Why was everyone cheering for Corinne? I'm no Taylor fan but I felt awful for her when she was basically forced to apologize with the expectation that she'd get an apology in return, but then Corinne condescendingly thanked her and everyone just dropped it.

No one forced Taylor to apologize. Taylor did it of her own accord because she thought she can get one in return from Corinne. Corinne never asked one from Taylor in the first place. 

[MsPH]

12 minutes ago, waving feather said:

No one forced Taylor to apologize. Taylor did it of her own accord because she thought she can get one in return from Corinne. Corinne never asked one from Taylor in the first place. 

I for one don't really care why Taylor did it, she's still the one who tried to act like an adult at that moment and Corinne was having none of it. No one's asking them to be friends, but I don't see why any adult would insist on holding a grudge over something that happened months ago, when they could simply acknowledge it wasn't their finest moment and move on. I'm no fan of Taylor, but she was willing to do that. Corinne wasn't and that's childish to me. Taylor clearly struck a nerve when she uttered the word intelligence, but she didn't kill Corinne's puppy for heaven's sake.

[betha]

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I will say, the one thing I still don’t understand is what Liz had to say. When I watched her speak with Chris Harrison, I found that she still didn’t make much sense to me. I’m not aware of any attempt she made at connecting with me before we met again that first night at the mansion. So watching back, I have no idea what she is talking about. If this was something she was so adamant about, I wish she had said something to me when I came onto the floor so we could clear things up. I guess Liz and I will just remain in a state of misunderstanding.

He needs to let this go. He still has a huge chip on his shoulder.  I don't think Liz had any bad intentions. My interpretation is since she never  knew if he was even that into her (she thought he was only asking for a phone number to be polite), she also doubted he would give up his bachelor gig for her. Rather than have him choose between pursuing something with her and the temptation of being the bachelor (and her likely lose), she decided to show up on the show. I'm sure she thought she had a slight edge and that was it.

Meanwhile, I think he liked her. He took her rejection a little tough and then ascribed underhanded motives to her coming on the show instead of calling him.

he seems unable to understand her point of view, but his harping on it is only making him look bad. 

[truthaboutluv]

I disagree in my opinion. As others pointed out, Liz still couldn't explain herself clearly and instead turned her appearance into some speech on women empowerment because of some slut shaming she claimed she was getting, when far as I could tell, most people just thought she was only on the season to get on camera and her claims of wanting to see if there was something between her and Nick was bogus. And he has every right to wonder WTF she's talking about if she's claiming she attempted to contact him and he has no recollection of that. Liz in my opinion was the one who seemed to have a chip on her shoulder and seemed to feel like she was wronged by Nick in some way and that's bullshit. 

11 hours ago, betha said:

Meanwhile, I think he liked her. He took her rejection a little tough and then ascribed underhanded motives to her coming on the show instead of calling him.

YMMV because I never saw even a hint of this. I think Nick had a hookup with Liz, didn't want to be a jerk and figured maybe there could be some potential of something and so he asked for her number, she pretty much said to keep things as is and he was more than fine with that.

Then as he's trying to get to know a bunch of women and hopefully build a new relationship, she pops up on his season after making no effort to contact him previously, thereby putting him in the uncomfortable position of where he had to eventually end up telling the other women that he and one of the contestants already had sex. So naturally he quickly sent her at her home.

I never saw anything from Nick towards Liz other than, "why were you here?" He's ascribing underhanded motives to her coming on because she makes no sense and has never made sense when asked very clearly and directly why, when she had months, if she thought she made a mistake to contact to him, wait to come on national television where she would be competing with 20+ women for him. 

 

Quote

she also doubted he would give up his bachelor gig for her. 

And as was pointed out very clearly by Nick, he didn't become the Bachelor until almost said nine months later. That's when she tried the reach of "you went to film Paradise" and he quickly pointed out to her that that was one month. Liz and Nick hooked up at Jade and Tanner's wedding (so tired of saying those words), which happened when Ben's season was still airing. Which meant that JoJo's season hadn't even started filming and much less airing. So that's months there where Nick was not The Bachelor and not on BiP. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[catrice2]

If people were really cheering for Corinne that is what perplexes me about reality tv...which has turned into real life.  The value of a person is how many instagram followers they have, or the tweets they send.  Is this typical of every year.?  Women calling each other the b word, etc.?   Corinne was just like a little spoiled brat that clearly needed a nap.   She may not really be like that, but you can only judge what she put out there.  She and Nicks mumbling, lisping, crying and tilting ruined this season for me.

I wish Vanessa luck....she is going to need it.   I thought I saw it posted somewhere that she has only be teaching Special Ed for a year?  Is that true?   If so, it may not be hard for her to move from Canada.  It depends on what she is dong....if she is working with adults in some type of program she may not be an actual Special Ed teacher with certification .   Can she hawk things on social media, or somehow become a part of Nick's business?  She is a pretty girl,but I don't know what she could push to make money.   Did the "winner" from last year keep her job? 

[Jax7917]

21 minutes ago, betha said:

He needs to let this go. He still has a huge chip on his shoulder.  I don't think Liz had any bad intentions. My interpretation is since she never  knew if he was even that into her (she thought he was only asking for a phone number to be polite), she also doubted he would give up his bachelor gig for her. Rather than have him choose between pursuing something with her and the temptation of being the bachelor (and her likely lose), she decided to show up on the show. I'm sure she thought she had a slight edge and that was it.

Meanwhile, I think he liked her. He took her rejection a little tough and then ascribed underhanded motives to her coming on the show instead of calling him.

he seems unable to understand her point of view, but his harping on it is only making him look bad. 

The richest part about the whole situation is that he kept saying and implying that she came on for the wrong reasons ( fame ) when this is his 5th time on the bachelor and now going on dwts !! This guy is the biggest fame whore . What is he gonna do when his time on reality tv finally ends ? 

[yorklee2]

15 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I’m not interested in the girl who has the perfect resume. I’m more interested in the person who’s just unapologetically themselves.

This quote from Nick's interview is also the answer for everyone who wonders how Raven made it so far. Yes she revealed anger tendencies and too much information about her sex life but Nick appreciated her honesty. Couple that with her outgoing personality and I don't think it's really that hard to figure out how she made it as far as she did.

I do think however if there was no B'ette opening to fill he would have keep Rachel for F2 and Raven would have went home as F3. But I definitely don't see Raven as cannon fodder as others have said. Cannon fodder would not have made it to the final three. I don't see the chemistry with Raven that he has with Vanessa but he seemed to have such a relaxed fun time when he was with her that if translated to the real world could make for a happy satisfying relationship. 

I have nothing against Vanessa. I think she's beautiful and the chemistry between her and Nick is intense but even the most accommodating and passionate of relationships can wane over time. If you factor in the very unaccommodating situation of living in different countries it's a uphill climb that would have to call for compromise and I'm not sure either would be willing to bend enough.

So I hope whoever he chooses that he's happy. I happened to like all his F3 women which I don't think I've ever been able to say for either the bachelor/b'ette finales.

Edited March 8, 2017 by yorklee2

[woodscommaelle]

13 hours ago, Rainsong said:

He never fails to fail, as CSN once sang. 

...it was the easiest thing to do...

:)

[yorklee2]

5 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And Nick still has no clue what the hell Liz is talking about, as per his People magazine blog:

Quote

I will say, the one thing I still don’t understand is what Liz had to say. When I watched her speak with Chris Harrison, I found that she still didn’t make much sense to me. I’m not aware of any attempt she made at connecting with me before we met again that first night at the mansion. So watching back, I have no idea what she is talking about. If this was something she was so adamant about, I wish she had said something to me when I came onto the floor so we could clear things up. I guess Liz and I will just remain in a state of misunderstanding.

Ok I'm officially confused here. The producers and therefore editors need to get their shit together because they are slipping big time. I saw a clip online the other day that had a preview of the WTA. In this clip they show Nick being interviewed by Chris Harrison as he's on the hot seat and he asks him about the Liz fiasco. He gave a canned response and then Chris asks Liz if she has anything she wants to add and she said no that she had only came on to see if there was something between them and she had accomplished her goal as apparently there wasn't!?! I know what I saw so that could only mean that Nick was lying when he wrote this blog. I had completely forgotten about it until I read this above line from TRUTHABOUTLUV post and realized something didn't make sense about it. You know as much as this show is watched with it's millions of viewers you would think that the producers would be more careful about what content gets out there. Someone will spot any discrepancies. But as bad as the editing has been, especially this season, who knows maybe they don't really care anymore. I mean after they spoiled their own show we should expect anything, right?

[1992austenlover]

14 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

If this was something she was so adamant about, I wish she had said something to me when I came onto the floor so we could clear things up.

6 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

Ok I'm officially confused here. The producers and therefore editors need to get their shit together because they are slipping big time. I saw a clip online the other day that had a preview of the WTA. In this clip they show Nick being interviewed by Chris Harrison as he's on the hot seat and he asks him about the Liz fiasco. He gave a canned response and then Chris asks Liz if she has anything she wants to add and she said no that she had only came on to see if there was something between them and she had accomplished her goal as apparently there wasn't!?! I know what I saw so that could only mean that Nick was lying when he wrote this blog. I had completely forgotten about it until I read this above line from TRUTHABOUTLUV post and realized something didn't make sense about it. You know as much as this show is watched with it's millions of viewers you would think that the producers would be more careful about what content gets out there. Someone will spot any discrepancies. But as bad as the editing has been, especially this season, who knows maybe they don't really care anymore. I mean after they spoiled their own show we should expect anything, right?

I think what he meant by the highlighted statement was that he wished that Liz would have confronted him and said  something like "hey, I tried to get in touch with you before I went on the show but you were busy" so that Nick could openly contradict that statement and they could just hash everything out. Instead, Liz simply said what you said she said--that she only came on the show to see if there was something between them and that she accomplished her goal by finding out that there wasn't. I think that Nick was just surprised by what Liz said when he wasn't on stage and he wished that he was given the opportunity to defend himself instead of finding out after the fact that Liz had said something that he claims wasn't true. At least, that was my interpretation of that comment. 

[In2You]

I don't agree with the Kristina should've been chosen as the Bachelorette. For what reason? Her sad past? Because that' all we got to know about her. Before that she kind of blended into the background with the rest of the girls. 

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

If people were really cheering for Corinne that is what perplexes me about reality tv...which has turned into real life.  The value of a person is how many instagram followers they have, or the tweets they send.  Is this typical of every year.?  Women calling each other the b word, etc.?   Corinne was just like a little spoiled brat that clearly needed a nap.   She may not really be like that, but you can only judge what she put out there.  She and Nicks mumbling, lisping, crying and tilting ruined this season for me.

I wish Vanessa luck....she is going to need it.   I thought I saw it posted somewhere that she has only be teaching Special Ed for a year?  Is that true?   If so, it may not be hard for her to move from Canada.  It depends on what she is dong....if she is working with adults in some type of program she may not be an actual Special Ed teacher with certification .   Can she hawk things on social media, or somehow become a part of Nick's business?  She is a pretty girl,but I don't know what she could push to make money.   Did the "winner" from last year keep her job? 

Per her IMDb page she tried to be an actress and did work as a glorified extra on a few things.

[yorklee2]

4 minutes ago, 1992austenlover said:

I think what he meant by the highlighted statement was that he wished that Liz would have confronted him and said  something like "hey, I tried to get in touch with you before I went on the show but you were busy" so that Nick could openly contradict that statement and they could just hash everything out. Instead, Liz simply said what you said she said--that she only came on the show to see if there was something between them and that she accomplished her goal by finding out that there wasn't. I think that Nick was just surprised by what Liz said when he wasn't on stage and he wished that he was given the opportunity to defend himself instead of finding out after the fact that Liz had said something that he claims wasn't true. At least, that was my interpretation of that comment. 

I think you missed my point. We didn't see any footage of Nick and Liz talking about anything when it aired last night. I'm telling you I saw a clip where him, Liz and Chris were doing just that. So by him saying that he wished she had told him about her trying to reach him it makes it seem as though they didn't talk at all about the situation. And that's what we the viewers saw. No interaction whatsoever. But I'm saying it happened. They talked. I saw it. If he had already seen her on the monitors giving the little spiel that we did see, then why didn't he ask her when he came out about her supposedly trying to contact him. The producers obviously taped extra footage and decided not to show the bit of them interacting but unless they taped Nick's interactions with all the women first and then taped her story of trying to contact him after he left the stage then why put it out there that she failed to ask him when we weren't shown the part where they did talk when he come out on the floor.

I think it's possible then that they did tape his part with the women first. They had their interaction where she failed to mention it and then after he left she then told the story and Nick watching it back didn't understand why she hadn't asked him when he was on the floor and they talked. Maybe. I don't know really which leads to my whole point that the editing has become so sloppy, bad and actually insulting to it's viewers. I know it's always been this way but it's getting out of hand now. We the viewers know it happens but we don't want it so blatantly and carelessly flaunted in our faces. Or at least I don't. This is escapism and I don't want mine flawed with anything that makes me realize how silly I am for watching this show...lol. I mean come on show can't you even give us that competently. I'm like many a heartbreak song. I know the truth but I would rather be lied too.   

[1992austenlover]

1 minute ago, yorklee2 said:

I think you missed my point. We didn't see any footage of Nick and Liz talking about anything when it aired last night. I'm telling you I saw a clip where him, Liz and Chris were doing just that. So by him saying that he wished she had told him about her trying to reach him it makes it seem as though they didn't talk at all about the situation. And that's what we the viewers saw. No interaction whatsoever. But I'm saying it happened. They talked. I saw it. If he had already seen her on the monitors giving the little spiel that we did see, then why didn't he ask her when he came out about her supposedly trying to contact him. The producers obviously taped extra footage and decided not to show the bit of them interacting but unless they taped Nick's interactions with all the women first and then taped her story of trying to contact him after he left the stage then why put it out there that she failed to ask him when we weren't shown the part where they did talk when he come out on the floor.

I think it's possible then that they did tape his part with the women first. They had their interaction where she failed to mention it and then after he left she then told the story and Nick watching it back didn't understand why she hadn't asked him when he was on the floor and they talked. Maybe. I don't know really which leads to my whole point that the editing has become so sloppy, bad and actually insulting to it's viewers. I know it's always been this way but it's getting out of hand now. We the viewers know it happens but we don't want it so blatantly and carelessly flaunted in our faces. Or at least I don't. This is escapism and I don't want mine flawed with anything that makes me realize how silly I am for watching this show...lol. I mean come on show can't you even give us that competently. I'm like many a heartbreak song. I know the truth but I would rather be lied too.   

I understand what you're saying but I'm saying that I think that you misconstrued what Nick was saying. You think that he was saying that he wished that he could have had a chance to talk to Liz, period, when you know that he did get a chance to talk to her because of that deleted scene. However, Nick said in the blog that he didn't get to see what was happening during the taping when he wasn't in the room, suggesting that he learned some things while watching the show back. 

Quote

Okay, so let’s talk about the rest of Women Tell All.  You may or may not know but pretty much all the excitement and show happens without the Bachelor or Bachelorette in the room. So watching this back, I was just as curious to see what the girls had to say about me and each other. 

If this is the case then Nick was probably frustrated to see Liz fabricating another storyline in their history behind his back and was saying that he wished that he had the opportunity to address it while they were together onstage. 

[yorklee2]

5 minutes ago, 1992austenlover said:

I understand what you're saying but I'm saying that I think that you misconstrued what Nick was saying. You think that he was saying that he wished that he could have had a chance to talk to Liz, period, when you know that he did get a chance to talk to her because of that deleted scene. However, Nick said in the blog that he didn't get to see what was happening during the taping when he wasn't in the room, suggesting that he learned some things while watching the show back. 

 

6 minutes ago, 1992austenlover said:

If this is the case then Nick was probably frustrated to see Liz fabricating another storyline in their history behind his back and was saying that he wished that he had the opportunity to address it while they were together onstage. 

 

7 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I will say, the one thing I still don’t understand is what Liz had to say. When I watched her speak with Chris Harrison, I found that she still didn’t make much sense to me. I’m not aware of any attempt she made at connecting with me before we met again that first night at the mansion. So watching back, I have no idea what she is talking about. If this was something she was so adamant about, I wish she had said something to me when I came onto the floor so we could clear things up. I guess Liz and I will just remain in a state of misunderstanding.

Okay I wasn't aware of any additional part where he said the leads don't get to hear what the contestants say. I was going by the quote of Nick above that TruthAboutLuv posted. In the line where he says when he watched her speak to Chris I assumed he meant backstage through monitors. But this is what's so messed up with the editing that for anyone who hasn't seen the clip I saw they would think that there was no conversation between them at all. I knew something was hokey when I first read the post and I assumed Nick was in on the deception. But if the show didn't want to use the deleted footage why would they let it get out to the public? Like I said I don't want to know how much I'm being manipulated..lol.

But I can answer his question. She didn't say it to his face because she knew it was bull and if he pushed the issue she would be caught in her lie. Seriously does anybody believe anything she says at this point? She was trying to save face and for all the ones who believed her little pity party it might be enough to get her on BIP which is what she was angling for all along anyway. So she can get more exposure for all that shilling she wants to do.

[backformore]

12 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 11:54 PM, backformore said:

NO, we don't.  We don't even know if they had sex.  We know what the producers want us to think.

Point taken but we also don't know they didn't. Either she's a really good actress or that smile and joy were real. I think the latter.

The thing is, Raven's dancing most likely happened BEFORE the fantasy suite date, not after.   The camera crew isn't going to stick around once Nick leaves, they're moving on to the next date.  The editing was done to make us think Raven was doing a "I had good sex" dance of joy.  I bet Raven had no idea until she watched it that it was going to be portrayed that way. 

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, violet and green said:

I don't get all these references to Nick liking "strong women"-- in reference to women showing signs of being bossy, domineering, rigid, controlling, entitled, unilateral decision makers, angry bulldozers, etc etc. Or just having a proper job! She's not a topless cocktail waitress, ergo she's a strong woman.

Good point.  I think I fell for the 'Vanessa is a strong woman,' thing myself early on because I was comparing her with the toddler Corinne. Taking the longer view we haven't seen anything very strong in Vanessa either.  Instead we've seen her insist on living close to her Mommy, spending every Sunday with her family, getting her way about things, and crying, crying, crying.

[Rubyslippahz]

The repeated thing of Nick wanting something "raw" and "challenging" and how Vanessa has that over, say, someone like Danielle L is interesting.   Danielle L was like a busty bot programmed to spout Bachelor-speak inanities, and it was clear after the 2 on 1 that Nick just couldn't with her.  It's telling that after apparently seeing Danielle L as a potential F1 at the very start, he later actually cried with happiness after his first 1 on 1 with Vanessa.  I think that was relief that he had finally connected to one of the women big time.  

I wonder how surprised -or not - Raven will be if she is not chosen.   She definitely hasn't shown the confidence that she's the one than Vanessa has.  I think the look on Vanessa's face after Rachel was eliminated was joy that her top competitor was gone--and that Raven wasn't that much of a threat in her mind.   That said I find Raven very likable, especially how she came across in group dates over the season-- not thrashing around for attention and with a nice sense of humor (like when she said Jasmine was going to shank someone during the volleyball debacle).  

[truthaboutluv]

4 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

But this is what's so messed up with the editing that for anyone who hasn't seen the clip I saw they would think that there was no conversation between them at all.

I actually never got that impression or thought that's what was being suggested. On the episode itself we clearly see that there is a whole portion where Chris talks to the women for quite awhile about things that happened during the season, before the lead comes out. Multiple seasons have confirmed that the filming for this takes hours and so naturally there is a lot that doesn't make the final edit. I actually remember the scene you're referring to that was posted online and never thought it made what Nick said confusing or seem to not add up.

If anything that clip online corroborates what Nick is saying in that we saw when confronted with him on the stage and asked about her feelings and thoughts, Liz just gave a canned response about how she wanted to see if there was potentially anything there and she got her answer. That certainly sounded like a done and done answer. So I don't blame Nick for being confused if prior, when talking to Chris Harrison, she was still making claims of trying to reach him before coming onto the show that he doesn't remember ever happening and when faced with him she doesn't bring it up.

Quote

I don't get all these references to Nick liking "strong women"

Speaking for myself, my reference to Nick liking strong women has nothing to do with Vanessa or any specific woman and everything to do with what he has said and has been saying since he first showed up on this franchise. As someone who has liked Nick since Andi's season, I have lost count of how many times I've heard him say he likes "strong women who challenge him and aren't afraid to call him out on his shit:".

So that's my only point of reference for that and of course, we all define strength differently. Some see Vanessa as weepy and whiny and confrontational. Putting aside the number this show does on people because the producers are manipulating the hell out of them for specific reactions, I see a woman who hasn't allowed Nick's being the lead to make him get away with everything and simply accept whatever he gives her. She's approaching the situation in my opinion as questioning not just if she's right for him but if he's right for her and I say good for her. 

Quote

It's telling that after apparently seeing Danielle L as a potential F1 at the very start, he later actually cried with happiness after his first 1 on 1 with Vanessa.  I think that was relief that he had finally connected to one of the women big time.  

Well and he pretty much said as much to her when he started crying. That up until that date with her, he'd been terrified of things not working out. In my opinion, the producers and editors threw a lot of smokescreen and diversions, like making it seem like they are two uncompromising people and moving is such this big issue, because this season has been fairly obvious with who the lead is picking. Not saying they didn't discuss those issues and it wasn't important, but I don't think it was all as dramatic and serious as the editing has made it seem. 

[CindyBee]

9 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I

I wish Vanessa luck....she is going to need it.   I thought I saw it posted somewhere that she has only be teaching Special Ed for a year?  Is that true?   If so, it may not be hard for her to move from Canada.  It depends on what she is dong....if she is working with adults in some type of program she may not be an actual Special Ed teacher with certification .   Can she hawk things on social media, or somehow become a part of Nick's business?  She is a pretty girl,but I don't know what she could push to make money.   Did the "winner" from last year keep her job? 

No, Lauren quit being a flight attendant as she claimed it wouldn't be safe for her to work being well known now.  Or something like that.  I don't know what she does for a living now as she always seems to be on vacation.

[betha]

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I never saw anything from Nick towards Liz other than, "why were you here?" He's ascribing underhanded motives to her coming on because she makes no sense and has never made sense when asked very clearly and directly why, when she had months, if she thought she made a mistake to contact to him, wait to come on national television where she would be competing with 20+ women for him. 

You could be correct. But even if she did want to get on TV, Nick is the last person in the world who should be fame whore-shaming, as Jaclyn88 pointed out above. He had already won- he got to be the bachelor and he got to reject her back. It just seems petty/excessive for him to continue to pick on her. That's what makes me think he maybe had feelings or at least a bruised ego from her rejection of him. He can't let it go. They all want to be on TV- that's the baseline.

Edited March 8, 2017 by betha

[truthaboutluv]

55 minutes ago, betha said:

You could be correct. But even if she did want to get on TV, Nick is the last person in the world who should be fame whore-shaming, as Jaclyn88 pointed out above. He had already won- he got to be the bachelor and he got to reject her back. It just seems petty/excessive for him to continue to pick on her. That's what makes me think he maybe had feelings or at least a bruised ego from her rejection of him. He can't let it go. They all want to be on TV- that's the baseline.

How is he picking on her by pointing out an inconsistency in what she's saying? Yes they're all famewhores alike. However she chose to come on his season and he very reasonably wondered why when unlike all the other women, she had the means to contact him anytime she wanted. That was all Nick was ever asking and she couldn't give a clear answer on that. And then she shows up at the WTA claiming she made attempts to contact him when talking to Chris Harrison, but when he's on the stage, waiting for whatever she has to say, she says nothing.

I don't think Nick has any lingering feelings or bruised ego about Liz or he just so can't let it go. Nick hasn't said a word about Liz since she was eliminated since Episode 2 but naturally, the issue came up again during the WTA. I think Nick's issue with Liz making comments like she tried connecting with him but he was unavailable or didn't show up is that it almost suggests he's lying. That's what I think is bothering and irritating him and rightly so. Because famewhore or not, her making comments like these sort of suggests that she tried and he rejected her to go be The Bachelor and based on the timeline of everything and everything else that has come out about this, that is not the case. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[1992austenlover]

32 minutes ago, betha said:

You could be correct. But even if she did want to get on TV, Nick is the last person in the world who should be fame whore-shaming, as Jaclyn88 pointed out above. He had already won- he got to be the bachelor and he got to reject her back. It just seems petty/excessive for him to continue to pick on her. That's what makes me think he maybe had feelings or at least a bruised ego from her rejection of him. He can't let it go. They all want to be on TV- that's the baseline.

I don't think that he was "fame whore-shaming" her with his comments. I think that anyone with a working pulse would be annoyed to find out that someone has been spreading lies behind their back--not to mention on national television--and wished that they had the opportunity to defend themselves when they had the chance. I don't think that he cares that much about Liz but I do think that he probably finds the whole Liz situation to be a thorn in his side and he's clearly still annoyed by Liz's approach towards the whole situation. Hell, I'm still annoyed by Liz's approach towards the whole situation...the fact that she openly stated that she didn't think that Nick would remember having sex with her and then pretended that he she didn't know him when she stepped out of the limo in order to test him...that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm sure that it still leaves a bad taste in his. In addition, it was clear from the beginning that Liz was brought on the show in order to 1) create drama and 2) remind the viewing public that Nick is a controversial, sex-crazed lothario who is somehow trying to find love in an environment where he has 30 women to choose from (I don't think of Nick in this way (I mean, the man loves having sex but he clearly sucked at the juggling multiple women part) but that seemed to be how the show was trying to portray him when they brought Liz onboard). I think that Nick understood Liz's role on the show and therefore found her presence to be really annoying for him to handle. Say what you want about Nick, but I don't think that he takes pleasure in being portrayed in a negative light; I just think that his lack of polish makes him a natural whipping post in the Bachelor universe and he has accepted his onscreen reputation and persona with a combination of grace and feigned indifference. I don't see Nick as a "Chad"--someone who would sell his soul for any sort of attention. I just think that Nick is just himself so when he gets criticized I'm sure that he takes it a little personally and sees it as an affront on his character. I think that if he was playing a role (like a Chad) then he wouldn't feel defensive but because this is real life for him, he does. I think that it's easier to put up a front than it is to be yourself and I think that Nick doesn't get enough credit for doing the latter. 

[partofme]

I don't see how Liz going on this season to see if there's something with Nick is any different than Nick going on Kaitlin's season. 

[1992austenlover]

3 minutes ago, partofme said:

I don't see how Liz going on this season to see if there's something with Nick is any different than Nick going on Kaitlin's season. 

Personally, I never had a problem with her coming on the show...I just think that her approach rubbed Nick and other people the wrong way, that's all. 

[peachmangosteen]

7 minutes ago, partofme said:

I don't see how Liz going on this season to see if there's something with Nick is any different than Nick going on Kaitlin's season. 

I just think people don't actually believe that's why she came on. They think she just came on to be on tv/get a chance to shill products on Instagram to make loads of money.

[partofme]

Maybe it's more like the two girls from Chris's season going on Ben's season then.  And are we saying Nick's not a fame whore, than the didn't go on Kaitlin's season to increase his fame?

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

I just think people don't actually believe that's why she came on. They think she just came on to be on tv/get a chance to shill products on Instagram to make loads of money.

Exactly. Plus Nick and Kaitlyn's situation has already been explained numerous times. Nick didn't wait until Kaitlyn was the Bachelorette to suddenly decide "oh there might be something there". They had been talking for weeks before the show made her the lead. So you know, unlike Liz he had no issues getting Kaitlyn's number and reaching out to her.

However they weren't officially a couple and hell hadn't even had a chance to physically meet in person. And then much like Ben who put his whatever he had with Tenley "on hold" (dumbest comment ever - and by the way, this thing included Tenley coming to Colorado to hang out with Ben for a whole week) to be the Bachelor, Kaitlyn did the same. And Nick to his credit said he never asked and never would have asked Kaitlyn to pass up the opportunity for something between them that wasn't even really defined.

So she became the lead and he took his shot because there clearly was something there before she became the lead. Hell it was later confirmed that before Kaitlyn left for filming and had to cut off all communication, she made "joking" comments to Nick about showing up out of the limo on the first night. Kaitlyn and Nick's situation was in no way similar to Nick and Liz in my opinion. 

And that's the thing. I think if Liz had said she signed up for the show not knowing who the lead would be because that's most people, everyone would have been okay with that. She could have said she signed up, was shocked when they announced Nick as the lead but then thought maybe it was a sign that she didn't give the possibility of them a chance. People might have bought that. It's the whole notion that she suddenly, after he was made the lead, realized that there was some potential or she might have made a mistake not giving him his number that people didn't buy. 

[yorklee2]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

actually never got that impression or thought that's what was being suggested. On the episode itself we clearly see that there is a whole portion where Chris talks to the women for quite awhile about things that happened during the season, before the lead comes out. Multiple seasons have confirmed that the filming for this takes hours and so naturally there is a lot that doesn't make the final edit. I actually remember the scene you're referring to that was posted online and never thought it made what Nick said confusing or seem to not add up.

If anything that clip online corroborates what Nick is saying in that we saw when confronted with him on the stage and asked about her feelings and thoughts, Liz just gave a canned response about how she wanted to see if there was potentially anything there and she got her answer. That certainly sounded like a done and done answer. So I don't blame Nick for being confused if prior, when talking to Chris Harrison, she was still making claims of trying to reach him before coming onto the show that he doesn't remember ever happening and when faced with him she doesn't bring it up.

You must have missed my last post on this. Before 1992AustenLover revealed to me that Nick didn't get to see what the women said before he came out I didn't realize that Nick was unaware of what she had said. So his blog for People didn't make sense to me. But now it does. So my ultimate beef was with the show misleading viewers into thinking there had never been a conversation between them period.  And I'm not a fan of Liz at all. I just believe in showing the whole story. I do wonder though what the other women and the audience were thinking when Liz told her original story to them about trying to contact him prior to the show (the part that Nick didn't get to hear) and then he comes out and they tape the conversation between them (that we didn't get to see). I mean they must have thought why is the show not allowing him to get to rebut her latest claim?? It's just more confirmation about how sneaky the producers are in manipulating the viewers.

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Good point.  I think I fell for the 'Vanessa is a strong woman,' thing myself early on because I was comparing her with the toddler Corinne. Taking the longer view we haven't seen anything very strong in Vanessa either.  Instead we've seen her insist on living close to her Mommy, spending every Sunday with her family, getting her way about things, and crying, crying, crying.

The only one by the strictest definition of "strong" woman on the show was Kristina. Sure she had the love of her adoptive parents but her earliest experiences with her parents had to have left a permanent scar. It will always be there and it makes it hard to trust people so you develop a wall/barrier to keep that from happening. So to put your self out there is being strong in my opinion.

4 hours ago, Rubyslippahz said:

I wonder how surprised -or not - Raven will be if she is not chosen.   She definitely hasn't shown the confidence that she's the one than Vanessa has.  I think the look on Vanessa's face after Rachel was eliminated was joy that her top competitor was gone--and that Raven wasn't that much of a threat in her mind.   That said I find Raven very likable, especially how she came across in group dates over the season-- not thrashing around for attention and with a nice sense of humor (like when she said Jasmine was going to shank someone during the volleyball debacle).  

And remember on the haunted house date where we got the lines, "If there's a ghost in there I'll rebuke it in the name of Jesus", and then when the doll had mysteriously disappeared she said, "either there's a ghost or one of these bitches took that doll". She did have a good sense a humor for sure.

8 hours ago, backformore said:

The thing is, Raven's dancing most likely happened BEFORE the fantasy suite date, not after.   The camera crew isn't going to stick around once Nick leaves, they're moving on to the next date.  The editing was done to make us think Raven was doing a "I had good sex" dance of joy.  I bet Raven had no idea until she watched it that it was going to be portrayed that way. 

After getting more confirmation of this shows editing tricks with the WTA shenanigans I'm more inclined to believe this. Plus although some think she would on further thought I don't believe Raven would have went through that little montage after the fact if she knew it wasn't true. But when she spoke the lines, "I'm very happy this morning" and "Nick is good at what he does" I think she was speaking the truth. Some believe it might have been oral instead of penetrative sex but what's the difference? It would still have been a very intimate act with all it's applied implications. If anything it would show Nick cared enough about her that he wanted her to have pleasure whether he did or not. I also think as others have said that Raven is more than aware of her competition and Nick and Vanessa's connection but she is hoping and trusting her and Nick's connection was enough. Raven can be a little uncouth. But I believe with time she will learn to tame it down and her outspokenness comes from a place of naivete and honesty. I could be duped but I don't think her words are said with malice or arrogance but with a somewhat lack of self awareness and how the world works and the producers are taking every advantage of it.

Edited March 8, 2017 by yorklee2

[1992austenlover]

Just now, partofme said:

Maybe it's more like the two girls from Chris's season going on Ben's season then.  And are we saying Nick's not a fame whore, than the didn't go on Kaitlin's season to increase his fame?

I don't think that anyone is saying that Nick is not a fame whore. However, call me naive, but I do think that he came back a second time in order to meet Kaitlyn. The fact that he and Kaitlyn had some sort of preexisting relationship coupled with the logic that Kaitlyn would very likely get engaged to another guy by the end of the season probably did compel him to at least take a shot at exploring something with her if only to rid himself from any regrets. It made sense to me lol. 

[DEL901]

Regarding Nanny-gate, Corrine multiple times said that she called Raquel her nanny because she didn't want to disrespect her by calling her a cleaner (or something - I'm paraphrasing here.)

a) there's nothing unsavory to be embarrassed about being a cleaner (it's honest labour) b) Corrine kept saying "I didn't want to call her a xxx" thereby calling her that multiple times and making it clear she thought the job title was demeaning and c) why not just call her a housekeeper?

Also, saying she moved down from New Jersey when her mom was sick contradicts what she said before about Raquel being a 2nd mom.

[truthaboutluv]

4 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

I do wonder though what the other women and the audience were thinking when after Liz told her original story to them about trying to contact him prior to the show (the part that Nick didn't get to hear) and then he comes out and they tape the conversation between them (that we didn't get to see). I mean they must have thought why is the show not allowing him to get to rebut her latest claim?? It's just more confirmation about how sneaky the producers are in manipulating the viewers.

He did hear it though - while watching backstage. Also I don't think it was the show not allowing him to rebut Liz's claim based on his comment in the People magazine blog. I think you've made this more confusing than it was. Basically, Liz spoke to Chris Harrison before Nick came out to address the women and stated she did make attempts to contact Nick. He saw this while watching backstage and has no recollection of this. He then came out and she never brought it up. So he's still confused as to what she's talking about because she didn't clarify. Regarding what the show did and didn't show, they seemed to decide to make her appearance more about some female empowerment statement on slut shaming or whatever. 

4 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

The only one by the strictest definition of "strong" woman on the show was Kristina.

I have nothing but respect for Kristina and what she's been through but YMMV and on this, International Women's Day, I don't think that a strong woman is only defined by having been through a horrific situation like her. Strength comes in many forms in my opinion and they are all valid. Getting off my soapbox now. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Also, saying she moved down from New Jersey when her mom was sick contradicts what she said before about Raquel being a 2nd mom.

I don't think so. I mean it could, but it doesn't necessarily.

But I agree with you on that weird 'cleaner' vs. 'nanny' thing and that was the only time this whole season where I thought Corrine came off like the entitled, rich princess that most saw her as.

2 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I have nothing but respect for Kristina and what she's been through but YMMV and on this, International Women's Day, I don't think that a strong woman is only defined by having been through a horrific situation like her. Strength comes in many forms in my opinion and they are all valid. Getting off my soapbox now. 

I agree. I don't think Vanessa is not a strong woman simply because she wants to have family dinners every week.

Edited March 8, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[JudyObscure]

16 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't think Vanessa is not a strong woman simply because she wants to have family dinners every week.

We used to go to my MIL's for Sunday dinner almost weekly and I enjoyed it. To me, it's not the "wanting," to have family dinners, it's the "having to."  It's  making it a deal breaker, core value, that has me thinking Vanessa isn't ready to leave the nest and start building her own with Nick or anyone else.  

[peachmangosteen]

I think the editing is making that more than it is. I think I read something about Vanessa apparently having lived in Vancouver at some point while her family's in Montreal, so obviously she wasn't having family dinners every single week.

I still don't think Nick and Vanessa are going to make it though!

[roses]

13 hours ago, catrice2 said:

  The value of a person is how many instagram followers they have, or the tweets they send.  

Right this, after Rachel was announced early this was one of the reasons floating around her Instagram followers were too low, and even now apparently it is still too low. I understand the need of it in this day and age but there is way too much focus on it. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by roses

[yorklee2]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

He did hear it though - while watching backstage. Also I don't think it was the show not allowing him to rebut Liz's claim based on his comment in the People magazine blog. I think you've made this more confusing than it was. Basically, Liz spoke to Chris Harrison before Nick came out to address the women and stated she did make attempts to contact Nick. He saw this while watching backstage and has no recollection of this. He then came out and she never brought it up. So he's still confused as to what she's talking about because she didn't clarify. Regarding what the show did and didn't show, they seemed to decide to make her appearance more about some female empowerment statement on slut shaming or whatever. 

 

11 hours ago, 1992austenlover said:

However, Nick said in the blog that he didn't get to see what was happening during the taping when he wasn't in the room, suggesting that he learned some things while watching the show back. 

With all due respect I'm not trying to make this confusing. I was just trying to make sense of something that didn't make sense. And as you can see from 1992AustenLover post above she seems to have a different understanding from yours about when exactly Nick heard her new claims. That's what I was going by in my latest post although yours was my original understanding also. And if so than I don't understand why Nick when he saw that Chris or Liz wasn't going to bring it up again why he didn't. I most definitely would have. Nothing makes me angrier than someone implying something against me that isn't true. I think it's human nature that anyone would want to defend themselves. If I were in Nick's shoes and I were watching her say this backstage I would have been all, "Oh no you don't. I can't believe she just said that". If the producers would not allow me to say something during my time on the hotseat than anyone could have told by my face and demeanor that something was wrong.

Although I think it's too late for that I would like to say that at the risk of beating a horse to death I wanted to state my reasons for my original post and thoughts. Suffice it to say that that whole scenario (to me) was a editing nightmare.

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I have nothing but respect for Kristina and what she's been through but YMMV and on this, International Women's Day, I don't think that a strong woman is only defined by having been through a horrific situation like her. Strength comes in many forms in my opinion and they are all valid. Getting off my soapbox now. 

I agree that strength comes in many forms but I never said the other women weren't strong only that in the strictest sense of the word it in my opinion would define Kristina.

And on a different note, I have been wanting to ask this for a long time, could you please explain to me what YMMV means?

Edited March 8, 2017 by yorklee2