S01.E14: The Lost Generation

[CooperTV]

Quote

As Lucy grapples with her newfound identity, Flynn disappears to 1927 France on the day that Charles Lindbergh completes his transatlantic flight.  Now, Rufus, Lucy and their new soldier scramble through the City of Lights and team with young reporter, Ernest Hemingway, to keep history intact. Meanwhile, locked in an undisclosed location, a despondent Wyattgets a visit from Agent Christopher, and the pair is left wondering if their enemies are closer than they realize.

Promos

[Randomosity]

Ha. Replacement Wyatt was already more useful than real Wyatt, and only about five minutes in. Too bad it was short-lived. I guess at least real Wyatt was smart enough to not get (fatally) shot...

Nice to get some more of the backstory on Lucy's career and relationship with her mother and Amy. Bet she wishes she was off in nowhereville, Ohio these days...

Gotta love Rufus and drunk Hemingway stumbling around in the catacombs, only to pull it together and save the day.

Random aside: Abigail Spencer really does have a pretty perfect look for a show like this. She looks right in the fashions from just about any place/time. Her look is... timeless, one might say :P

Not even pretending to bother trying to follow all this Rittenhouse conspiracy whatnot and whatever Flynn's goals are or are not anymore. Just going to sit here and enjoy the historical figures and cool costumes.

I admit I had a true LOL when Lucy bluntly told Wyatt he sounded crazy :)

[JackONeill]

Hello, Dave. Goodbye, Dave.

Things seem to be heating up.

[benteen]

LOL about how competent Replacement Wyatt turned out to be (and they used the guy they had introduced briefly earlier in the season).  So naturally he gets killed in about a second.  Poor guy. 

Wyatt seems to be at his most competent when he's locked up in jail.

Really good episode once again.  Enjoyed the various historical characters/performers, which this show always does so well on.

[MisterGlass]

I was a little distracted by the neon absinthe, but I did like the reveal of the journal at the end.

Hi Jim Beaver!

[ketose]

It is getting hard to watch this show. We still have to accept on faith that Rittenhouse is evil because no one will really explain their case. Flynn is still murdering. Wyatt is suddenly a badass MacGyver. Also, Emma has apparently been on a bunch of temporal excursions (with Anthony?) already.

I decided to watch Abigail Spencer's other show Rectify. Timeless does not compare well to it. I think there's a decent show somewhere in Timeless, but I don't think I'll be disappointed if they cancel it unless they define the stakes better.

[JackONeill]

It is sort of interesting that some of the characters are seemingly having trouble determining if they're on the right side or not.

What's odd is that Rittenhouse has so much in resources, in manpower and technology, but even they can't stop Flynn.

[thuganomics85]

Well, they sure packed this one with historical figures.  Charles Lindenberg, Ernest Hemingway, and Josephine Baker!  All of the actors did great jobs, although I was a little bit distracted with Lindenberg because I know the actor, Jesse Luken, as Jimmy on Justified, so it was hard picturing Jimmy in the 1920s!

Speaking of Justified, Jim Beaver as Christopher's NSA "replacement" should be good.  He has the whole grandfather-like sound and look, but as he's shown in past shows, he can be pretty sinister too.

Surprised, but kind of impressed that they brought that Bam Bam guy back, only to kill him off.  I guess there can be only one Wyatt!

No surprised that Abigail Spencer looked perfectly gorgeous with the 1920s look, but Anne Wersching was actually giving her a run for her money.

Not surprised that Wyatt got out, but I'm curious over what they are planning to do with his character since he won't be going time-traveling with Rufus and Lucy anymore, unless they find some mysterious way to sneak him in ("Pay no mind to this body-shape duffle bag we're taking with us.  It's just snacks!")

So, basically Flynn's plan this time was just to get Lindenberg to reveal another Rittenhouse guy, and now Flynn is questioning him.  Yawn!

I'm hoping Lucy's mom will play a bigger role soon, since it's currently a waste of Susanna Thompson.  Get your Moira Queen on, Susanna!

So, next week, this show will tackle Al Capone.  Hopefully it will be half as entertaining as when they did it on Legends of Tomorrow.  Pretty sure that Supernatural's Misha Collins I saw in the previews too.

[KaveDweller]

Good episode, I liked this better than last week. Hemmingway was a lot of fun as a historical character. And I loved Emma wanting to go out and meet Picasso. I guess she was really board living out in the woods in 1880 with just one Hunger Games book to keep her entertained.

I liked Rufus thinking (for a second) that all the people being different back in the present were changed because of something they did, because how many times did people say that should happen early in the season.

I can't believe no one on the show thought that maybe Rittenhouse killed Wyatt's wife. I felt really bad for him when he said he thought fate/God just wanted the person he loves to be dead. How depressing is that?

Did anyone get a sinister vibe from Lucy's mom when she gave Lucy the journal? Almost like she knew writing the journal would be important?

[benteen]

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No surprised that Abigail Spencer looked perfectly gorgeous with the 1920s look, but Anne Wersching was actually giving her a run for her money.

THIS.  Can't go wrong with Annie Wersching in anything.

Didn't realize that was Jimmy from Justified.  Thought he looked familiar though.  Nice Justified casting tonight.

Edited February 7, 2017 by benteen

[djinn]

The scene at the end with the 4 conspirators was the best one in the episode! It's time Agent Christopher chose a side. But Flynn is not making much sense - Rittenhouse even less so.

Next week it's Misha Collins as Elliot Ness - YES!!! 

[LittleIggy]

I love me some Jim Beaver! :-)

Lucy did look gorgeous as a flapper. She needs to toss that journal or better yet write all kinds of shit in it to mess with Flynn. BTW, the way she and Lindy were swigging that absinthe straight from the bottle, they should have been pretty plastered.

[phalange]

Lucy and her heart-eyes over meeting historical figures is always adorable and LOL at Rufus once again having zero game. Hemingway and Josephine Baker were fun and I liked her conversation with Lucy about the actual meaning of the Lost Generation. Also, RIP Bam Bam. I didn't think they were actually going to kill him. I did, however, cheer when he tried to call Lucy "ma'am" and she shut that down immediately. Only Wyatt gets to do that, my dude. 

I liked all of Wyatt's scenes with Agent Christopher and how she slipped him the paperclip. I'm glad she's become the Time Team's ally now. So by the end everyone knows about Creepy Rittenhouse Guy being Lucy's biological father and we finally learn where Lucy's journal comes from. I wonder if she'll simply refuse to start it in the first place, since she's really seemed to take to heart Wyatt's words about controlling your own future.

Edited February 7, 2017 by phalange

[kav]

So can she change what is in the 1st journal?  Is whatever she writes automatically appear in Flynn's journal?

[bros402]

This episode was good. Killing Bam Bam made me sad because he was great - he was a much more likable Wyatt.

I liked when they came back, Rufus was like "Oh crap, what did we change?"

All of the historical figures were good. I really hope that they renew this, but but it on Fridays. Isn't Grimm ending? Put season 2 of Timeless in Grimm's slot - this is a good show for a Friday night slot - they can retool the Rittenhouse plot for a second season, clearly lay out Flynn's motivations OR why Rittenhouse is so evil (Maybe Lucy gets to view a slideshow when she talks to her father next? "Our Master Plan. Trust me, we aren't evil, it just seems that way until we blind you with money and power.") and go from there - since there IS a good show at the core of this, they just need to streamline it.

[green]

Finally we get a good security guy I liked way WAY W-A-Y better then Wyatt so they kill him off immediately.  He had way more personality in his brief stint then the Wyatt character ever managed.  And he was so happy and excited to see history too.  Grrrr.  Must be the writer is some rabid Dodger fan to create a character named Bumgarner only to turn around and kill him off quickly.

At least he got to wing the one guy with a legit time period weapon before he went.  Guy was way to competent to be allowed to survive I guess.  The only weapon (tool) Wyatt ever seems competent with is his paperclips.  (But I bet if they kept Houdini on the show he could escape without same).

An episode where we don't see Flynn personally killing anyone.  That must be a first.  Though the French early car mogul may not survive his convo with him.

Well Fate has stood up and entered the show as a cast member I see.  Lucy actually changes Lindbergh's direction in life only to find he returned to his original historical path.  Flynn suddenly believes in fate (or God or nature or The Force or something).  And Lucy gets her "fated" journal.

Glad they are using Homeland Security Lady more.  Should have been doing that all along.  I'd rather have had her accompany Lucy and Rufus in the time machine all along.

Edited February 7, 2017 by green

[Writing Wrongs]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what anyone on this show's Master Plan is supposed to be, but I enjoy it.

[Randomosity]

...so somewhere in the two lefts, freeway, roundabouts, National Park whatnot, and throwing a black bag over his head, the police/military-types let Wyatt stop at home to grab a new outfit? Go shopping for a broody black button up and leather jacket?

Shouldn't he still have been in his awesomely acid-washed 80s garb for this entire episode?

[JackONeill]

Next week we will see Flynn opening the journal. It will be the first time since this mission, and the first time since Lucy started writing in the "new" journal her mother gave her.

As Flynn is looking at the journal, his eyes will go big. The camera will pull back to show the audience what he's looking at. There in girly handwriting will be: Lucy Loves Wyatt!!!

Edited February 7, 2017 by JackONeill
Tried to get fancy. It didn't work. I'm not fancy.

[benteen]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 3:01 AM, bros402 said:

This episode was good. Killing Bam Bam made me sad because he was great - he was a much more likable Wyatt.

I liked when they came back, Rufus was like "Oh crap, what did we change?"

All of the historical figures were good. I really hope that they renew this, but but it on Fridays. Isn't Grimm ending? Put season 2 of Timeless in Grimm's slot - this is a good show for a Friday night slot - they can retool the Rittenhouse plot for a second season, clearly lay out Flynn's motivations OR why Rittenhouse is so evil (Maybe Lucy gets to view a slideshow when she talks to her father next? "Our Master Plan. Trust me, we aren't evil, it just seems that way until we blind you with money and power.") and go from there - since there IS a good show at the core of this, they just need to streamline it.

Although I like Goran Visnjic (and love Annie Wersching) I'd be happy with the Rittenhouse storyline ending this year if the show is fortunate enough to get a Season 2.  It's the time traveling, meeting historical figures, historical settings and interactions between the three main characters that I like the best.  Of course I know there has to be a purpose and storyline in there somewhere but I think starting with a fresh one would help.  Perhaps another country gets their own time traveling technology and that starts off a temporal "arms" race.  THAT could be intriguing.

Edited February 8, 2017 by benteen

[dubbel zout]

5 hours ago, bros402 said:

I liked when they came back, Rufus was like "Oh crap, what did we change?"

Same here. Too bad it was a fake out. The Rittenhouse stuff really needs to be made much more explicit. I have a feeling the writers deliberately left it vague so they don't have to rewrite/retcon as they go along. 

5 hours ago, bros402 said:

this is a good show for a Friday night slot

Totally agree! I don't think it will ever have better than middling ratings, but Friday does seem a really good slot. (And yes, this is the final season for Grimm.)

The woman who played Josephine Baker was really good, I thought, on par with the one who played Bonnie Parker. Whoever casts this show does a consistently excellent job with the historical figures.

Poor Bam Bam. Of course the first competent muscle our side has gets shot. I knew he couldn't be around too long because of Wyatt, but it's a shame he had to die. I hope Wyatt feels some guilt about Bam Bam's death.

I'm with the poster who wants the show streamlined. Time travel, Rittenhouse, Flynn's revenge, Wyatt's dumb backstory, Lucy's sister and father drama, it's a lot to cover, and more often than not, the show focuses on the wrong plot, IMO. We should know much more about Rittenhouse by the fourteenth episode. And is it really such a shock that if Lucy's bio father is in Rittenhouse and we know it's handed down in families that she's somehow involved? That was pretty basic deducing.

Edited February 7, 2017 by dubbel zout
formatting

[waving feather]

Wyatt has always been competent to me, with good instincts. He just f'ed up royally in the last episode when his emotions got involved. He should only take on missions that don't have an emotional connection to him. I'm also hopeful because finally he seemed resigned to the fact that he can't bring back Jessica from the dead. It's stupid, so please drop it, sweetie. So, now they have to break the news to Wyatt that his friend Bam Bam is dead, huh? Poor Bam Bam. :-( They couldn't even bring his body back for his family?

The writers must be doing a good job writing Wyatt and Lucy because I actually like this completely predictable pairing. It's one-sided at the moment, which makes sense because Wyatt has just started to process the loss.

Rufus' scenes made me happy this episode. I love the running gag of him telling Lucy "Don't tell Jiya" and her replying "Mm hm".

The historical characters featured in this episode were great and 3-dimensional (unlike Houdini). I am super intrigued by Flynn's henchman. Dude is silent but competent and Flynn is lucky he has him by his side.

If they don't renew this, I hope they had a chance to wrap things up. If they do renew it, I am hoping they would kill Flynn off and introduce another better adversary for the team.

Edited February 7, 2017 by waving feather

[Fireball]

12 hours ago, green said:

Finally we get a good security guy I liked way WAY W-A-Y better then Wyatt so they kill him off immediately.  He had way more personality in his brief stint then the Wyatt character ever managed.  And he was so happy and excited to see history too.  Grrrr.  Must be the writer is some rabid Dodger fan to create a character named Bumgarner only to turn around and kill him off quickly.

I'm right there with you; I liked Dave way way better than Wyatt! I knew it wouldn't last, but I was hoping for at least an episode or two. I've been struggling with this show since the break; but the thought of having someone other than Wyatt got me excited and than to see Wyatt's replacement was Bam Bam! For me Dave seemed so much more fun than Wyatt.  And than they killed him off within like the first 5min! I actually turned off the show after they killed Dave I was so ticked off.  Dave also had better aim; Wyatt never seemed to hit anything and he had a modern gun! I'll probably finish watching the episode at some point.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Fireball

[Randomosity]

53 minutes ago, waving feather said:

It's one-sided at the moment, which makes sense because Wyatt has just started to process the loss.

Yeah, that was a loooong hug. (Lookin' at you, Lucy...) Especially when contrasted with the fact that Rufus didn't even give Wyatt a bro hug/pat on the back thing. I do wonder how quickly the writers will have feelings hit him (if there's time to do so at all); it could easily be one of those cliches where he's so preoccupied with saving Jessica, oops, he didn't realize he was falling for Lucy the whole time...

I still prefer the historical events/figures/fashions to most of the other things about the show, but if somehow the Wucy pairing helps get a season 2, I'm good with it.

[Primetimer]

But events in the present prove far more interesting, believe it or not.

View the full article

[benteen]

Was this the first time we've seen the team be debriefed in this way?  With Jim Beaver's character asking them who they had come in contact with in the past?

[basiltherat]

OH NO!  THEY KILLED BAM BAM!!  YOU BASTIDS!!

[tennisgurl]

Damn it show, if you want me to want Wyatt around, don't show that his replacement is all around better, more competent, and more focused, than kill him off! What is even the hell? I like Wyatt, in general. As a character, I think he's fine. But, he REALLY sucks at his job, and his obsession with Jessica is boring and painfully clichéd. Why not have Bam Bam, who doesn't seem to have all the classic Dead Wife baggage, so he would probably actually do his job, he doesn't bring futuristic weapons in the past where they can be stolen by bad guys, and he actually shot a bad guy! Its just unfair.

I did like this episode though, no matter how sad I was about poor Bam Bam. I love the whole Lost Generation scene, so it was cool seeing the gang stop by here. And we get Josephine Baker AND Earnest Hemmingway! Both actors were great and very likable. I enjoyed Rufus and Lucy both going all fanboy/girl over them. Seriously, a million props to the casting people, they cast such awesome people to play the historical characters. Although, it leads to the issue that I have had for awhile now, that the historical characters are WAY more interesting than the main characters and the whole Rittenhouse plot. Not that I dislike our main heroes, but they kind of pale in comparison to people like Baker and Hemmingway, who have tons of personality and charisma and have cool backstories and skill sets, while our gang are pretty much typical TV protagonists. I would be alright with this, if our heroes had more to do, had more character development, or even if they just traveled around time having adventures and meeting cool people, without all this Rittenhouse stuff. Speaking of...

I just do not care AT ALL about Rittenhouse. The season is almost over, and I still have no idea who they are, what their deal is, or why we should hate them so much! Lucy's dad even addressed the whole "your founder is an evil racist sexist asshole" by being like "it was the colonial era, we`ve evolved since then", so then what have we seen them actually do? The founder was a jerk, we addressed that, and they threatened Rufus but have never done anything, despite Rufus clearly not following their instructions, and they pressured Charles Lindbergh into acting like an asshole in the future. Everything else, we know from Flynn, who I don't exactly trust, being a murderous asshole and all. What is their purpose? Why should we root for Flynn over them? Why are they so evil, supposedly?

[reggiejax]

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Well, they sure packed this one with historical figures.  Charles Lindenberg, Ernest Hemingway, and Josephine Baker!

I was almost expecting to see Al Capone doing the Charleston on top of a flag pole.

But evidently, that happens next week. ;)

[CooperTV]

I. Don't. Give. A. FIg. About. Garcia. Flynn, show. I just don't. It's annoying I have to repeat myself every week but my point still stands. Turning him into psycho murderer with no redeeming qualities and creating a story that capitalizes on Flynn having special connection with Lucy just made his entire arc worse. He's gross, disgusting mess. I'm not rooting for him just because Rittenhouse is The Absolute Evil. I don't want to see his face ever again. Seriously. And BTW, Flynn's plan for Lindbergh made zero sense. And the red-haired lady's make up was horrible. So there!

The Illuminati Dad and Lucy scene was sooo bad. I mean, I liked Abigail Spencer's acting is great and everything but that scene was atrocious. And now I think her mother is also Rittenhouse, which would explain a lot about her and her emotional manipulations of Lucy (and the creepy journal).

Some fun stuff with Paris and its celebrities, though. I liked how Lucy and Rufus both went on baring their souls trips while talking to Hemingway and Josephine Baker. Great casting for those roles, very memorable. But everyone in that bar needed some therapy, including Lucy and Rufus.

Agent Christopher is really hapless and naive lady, it seems. We need Wyatt, chained to a table in a dark room, to explain to her that they're in the Matrix Rittenhouse rules everything and they staged an invisible coupe. Like? Wyatt, I commend you for you quick thinking and you were badass in that blinking lights scene. Anyway, Wyatt did sounded (and looked) like crazy person, Lucy is right. On the other hand, Lucy hugged him so it's all fine?? Not as good as therapy he (and other people in this show) needs but kinda fine??

ETA: Poor Replacement Goldfish!Wyatt...

Edited February 7, 2017 by CooperTV

[Shanna Marie]

I was just thinking my usual rant with the name changed: "Dammit, Bam Bam, why can't you shave? What's with the scruff?" when it kind of became a moot point. Wyatt may not have managed to kill Flynn, but he never got himself killed, so there's that. But it was nice to see that they didn't go with the usual trope of the existing team members resenting the replacement guy and being jerks to him. They were professional about it and willing to listen to him, and they seemed genuinely sad at his death. A lot of shows would have treated Bam Bam like a villain.

It was funny that they thought they'd changed history when they returned and it was all different, but why haven't they changed history more than they have? Are we now going with the "fate" thing, and some things are just going to work out the same way, no matter what you do? That's not an unusual approach to time travel (it's a big thing in Connie Willis's time travel books, that chaos theory kicks in and lots of random other stuff will happen to correct things that time travelers screw up, so the outcome of major events is the same even if minor things get altered along the way).

[iMonrey]

Bam Bam > Wyatt. 

This is the closest the show has ever come to actually addressing the ramifications of altering historical events: Wyatt telling Agent Christopher that either Flynn lied to him about who killed his wife, or else God or fate simply wanted her dead anyway. This is exactly what the show needs to be more explicit about. Especially since, in the same episode, Lucy learns that despite her best efforts and her belief to the contrary, she did nothing to change Lindbergh's history.

This is exactly where the show needs to go by the end of this season: with the realization by these characters that they cannot alter history. It's somehow immutable, no matter what specifics they try to change or who they kill. History still unfolds the same way because it's all pre-destined fate. So, they could have prevented both Booth and Flynn from shooting Lincoln, only to come home and find out someone else shot him an hour later. Or they could go back and prevent Kennedy's assassination, only to come home and find out he died the next day of a cerebral hemorrhage. 

Because otherwise? This show doesn't make a lick of sense. Yes, Lucy managed to wipe her own sister out of existence, but maybe Amy never played any significant role in history, and it's stuff like that they're able to change. Nothing important. It's why they keep meeting all these famous historical characters and altering the course of history only to come home and find that essentially, nothing has changed.

Unfortunately, the rest of the episode was marred by several jarring flaws, not the least of which was why the electric panel for the black ops site would be in Wyatt's holding cell and why a guard would go in there when the power is out. I also don't get where the hell Flynn went after he allowed Lucy into Lindbergh's cell to try turn him against Rittenhouse. Why would he just wander off at that point? His whereabouts were unaccounted for from that point onward.

Quote

Not even pretending to bother trying to follow all this Rittenhouse conspiracy whatnot and whatever Flynn's goals are or are not anymore. Just going to sit here and enjoy the historical figures and cool costumes.

You and the writers both. The show hit a new series low last night with a 0.6 in the 18-49 demo. Kiss this show goodbye, folks.

Edited February 7, 2017 by iMonrey

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

I also don't get where the hell Flynn went after he allowed Lucy into Lindbergh's cell to try turn him against Rittenhouse. Why would he just wander off at that point? His whereabouts were unaccounted for from that point onward.

He went to talk to the French car guy. There was a scene toward the end where Flynn knocks on the guy's door and invites himself in for a chat.

[CooperTV]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

Bam Bam > Wyatt. 

Reading how everyone liked Bam Bam more than Wyatt this episode I remembered that quote. "[He] is more efficient now. It's amazing what he can accomplish without wasting time for a personality." On the other hand, Bam Bam was as naive as Agent Christopher and didn't bring a real gun with him so that's efficiency seems to be greatly exaggerated.

[Fireball]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Damn it show, if you want me to want Wyatt around, don't show that his replacement is all around better, more competent, and more focused, than kill him off! What is even the hell? I like Wyatt, in general. As a character, I think he's fine. But, he REALLY sucks at his job, and his obsession with Jessica is boring and painfully clichéd. Why not have Bam Bam, who doesn't seem to have all the classic Dead Wife baggage, so he would probably actually do his job, he doesn't bring futuristic weapons in the past where they can be stolen by bad guys, and he actually shot a bad guy! Its just unfair.

^ This so much.  If the show wanted me to want Wyatt to stick around they should have shown his replacement to be even worse. As it is I'm sad we don't get to keep Bam Bam he seemed fun! 

 

4 hours ago, CooperTV said:

On the other hand, Bam Bam was as naive as Agent Christopher and didn't bring a real gun with him so that's efficiency seems to be greatly exaggerated.

I took Bam Bam not bringing a modern gun as him being a good soldier following orders.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Fireball

[DesertCyclist]

I love the time travel aspects of this show, the cast, and the acting, but I'm struggling to remain interested because motivations are murky.  It's fourteen episodes in, and we still don't know what Rittenhouse is up to.  It's feeling a lot like Lost right now, where artificial tension is gleaned by characters not sharing information with both each other and the audience.

[CooperTV]

15 minutes ago, Fireball said:

I took Bam Bam not bringing a modern gun as him being a good soldier fallowing orders.

The following orders logic doesn't hold water at all, since they could travel in 1700s or 1800s, and all gunpowder weapons/guns there are inefficient and in need of reloading after every shot. And Flynn and co carrying modern automatics and rocket launchers. It's a death sentence, as it was perfectly demonstrated this episode.

 

3 minutes ago, DesertCyclist said:

It's feeling a lot like Lost right now, where artificial tension is gleaned by characters not sharing information with both each other and the audience.

It reminds me of the current show called Colony where noone ever explained what is happening or why.

Edited February 7, 2017 by CooperTV

[Driad]

Can someone please explain the journal? Lucy knows that Flynn is using it, right? Why would she write in it, or if she does, why would she write anything that might be useful to him?

[Boofish]

I'm confused - if taste great, less filling Wyatt died in the past shouldn't his memory be erased from the future? They managed to erase Lucy Jr. just by changing events in 30's so New Formula Wyatt should exist only to Lucy Sr. and Rufus (whom I continue to adore more and more each week)

[CooperTV]

2 minutes ago, Boofish said:

I'm confused - if taste great, less filling Wyatt died in the past shouldn't his memory be erased from the future?

Why would he be erased if he existed in the timeline? The fact that he died while being in the past doesn't change his existence and its impact of the timeline. Amy was erased from the timeline because some dude that was supposed to marry some person married her sister instead and Amy's father never met Lucy's mother.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm confused - if taste great, less filling Wyatt died in the past shouldn't his memory be erased from the future? They managed to erase Lucy Jr. just by changing events in 30's so New Formula Wyatt should exist only to Lucy Sr. and Rufus (whom I continue to adore more and more each week)

They didn't alter history so that Bam Bam was never born like they did with Lucy's sister. He still gets born and grows up and goes as far as 2/6/17.

[Latverian Diplomat]

6 hours ago, benteen said:

Was this the first time we've seen the team be debriefed in this way?  With Jim Beaver's character asking them who they had come in contact with in the past?

There's usually been a quick "did that work/what's different" chat, but nothing this formal (or hostile).

Keeping track of how many people they interacted with, etc. isn't a terrible idea, but it's bad management to ask people for a precise figure when they weren't asked to do it before they left. 

So, did I understand correctly that there was rule against taking advanced weapons back to the past, that Wyatt has been ignoring? How exactly did that work?

"Hey, Wyatt forgot his musket, and there are some hand grenades missing. I'm sure there's no connection though." 

-- Worst armory ever

The boys are Supernatural just escaped from a "black site" hidden a national park a few weeks ago. Now Wyatt. Is this a new pop culture conspiracy theory?

Ian Fleming got an extra Bond story out of his interaction with the Timesketeers. Nothing for poor Earnest? Once Lindbergh came back out in public again, he could have at least written some disguised fiction about it?

Edited February 7, 2017 by Latverian Diplomat

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, CooperTV said:

On the other hand, Bam Bam was as naive as Agent Christopher and didn't bring a real gun with him so that's efficiency seems to be greatly exaggerated.

He really screwed up.  An M1911 Colt Automatic, for obvious reasons, would have been perfectly at home in 1927, and he would probably have won the gunfight.

[ketose]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I was just thinking my usual rant with the name changed: "Dammit, Bam Bam, why can't you shave? What's with the scruff?" when it kind of became a moot point. Wyatt may not have managed to kill Flynn, but he never got himself killed, so there's that. But it was nice to see that they didn't go with the usual trope of the existing team members resenting the replacement guy and being jerks to him. They were professional about it and willing to listen to him, and they seemed genuinely sad at his death. A lot of shows would have treated Bam Bam like a villain.

It was funny that they thought they'd changed history when they returned and it was all different, but why haven't they changed history more than they have? Are we now going with the "fate" thing, and some things are just going to work out the same way, no matter what you do? That's not an unusual approach to time travel (it's a big thing in Connie Willis's time travel books, that chaos theory kicks in and lots of random other stuff will happen to correct things that time travelers screw up, so the outcome of major events is the same even if minor things get altered along the way).

The complaint has been that Wyatt had one job, killing Flynn, and failed. I guess Job One is not dying. Wyatt excelled at that.

I think after Amy's erasure from history, the writers figured time couldn't change too much or they couldn't have plot consistency. I think they should have said screw it and actually changed everyone's lives around them. Then we really get to see the stakes. Imagine if Flynn killed Rittenhouse and the world was a hellhole. Then Flynn and the Time Team would have to figure out how to rig up the eyeball to run again and fix history. Continuum essentially did that.

[dargosmydaddy]

7 minutes ago, ketose said:

The complaint has been that Wyatt had one job, killing Flynn, and failed. I guess Job One is not dying. Wyatt excelled at that.

Indeed! 

I am in the 5% of Wyatt fans here, so I found Bam-Bam's quick death kind of hilarious. (I know, I'm evil.)

However, apparently my TV was a Bam-Bam fan, because it cut to black (on NBC only) right after his death and I didn't get to see the second half of the episode. Can someone fill me in with what happened with Wyatt? He escaped... and returned to headquarters? And no one bothered re-arresting him? Or did he just meet up with Lucy and Rufus privately?

[Randomosity]

2 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Indeed! 

I am in the 5% of Wyatt fans here, so I found Bam-Bam's quick death kind of hilarious. (I know, I'm evil.)

However, apparently my TV was a Bam-Bam fan, because it cut to black (on NBC only) right after his death and I didn't get to see the second half of the episode. Can someone fill me in with what happened with Wyatt? He escaped... and returned to headquarters? And no one bothered re-arresting him? Or did he just meet up with Lucy and Rufus privately?

He escaped and met with Lucy, Rufus, and Agent Christopher in... an undisclosed location? Couldn't go to headquarters with NSA/Rittenhouse all over the place there. What they failed to elaborate on is how he got to wherever they were, from wherever he was, 30 minutes away in a National Park. Did he steal a park service car? Take the BART? An Uber?

[Netfoot]

48 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

An M1911 Colt Automatic, for obvious reasons, would have been perfectly at home in 1927, and he would probably have won the gunfight.

He could certainly have carried a 1911, but why would that have made his win in the gunfight probable?  The two extra rounds it could carry?  

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

The complaint has been that Wyatt had one job, killing Flynn, and failed. I guess Job One is not dying. Wyatt excelled at that.

Well, Job One would have to be not dying because it's hard to do any of the other jobs if you're dead. Then from what Wyatt said here, there's also keeping the rest of the team alive (though that may be his new personal mission). They've also been trying to stop Flynn from changing history, which is often what's interfered with the killing Flynn mission. And then there's killing Flynn. I don't know if they've ever specified which job is supposed to be the ultimate priority -- is Wyatt supposed to let his team members die if it means he kills Flynn? Is it more important to save history or kill Flynn? It gets trickier with the idea that there may be an element of fate, that no one can drastically alter history. If history can't really be altered in dramatic ways, if things will work out more or less the same way, then they don't really need to make much effort to save history (unless maybe they're part of the equation keeping things the way they're supposed to be). And Flynn is wasting his time, too, since he can't change the outcome. But then that means they don't need to kill Flynn if he can't be successful.

59 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I am in the 5% of Wyatt fans here, so I found Bam-Bam's quick death kind of hilarious. (I know, I'm evil.)

I'll join you at the evil table because I thought it was kind of funny, too. I was imagining the Internet reaction.

[Fireball]

3 hours ago, CooperTV said:

The following orders logic doesn't hold water at all, since they could travel in 1700s or 1800s, and all gunpowder weapons/guns there are inefficient and in need of reloading after every shot. And Flynn and co carrying modern automatics and rocket launchers. It's a death sentence, as it was perfectly demonstrated this episode.

I'm not sure what your point is? Was it stupid of Bam Bam to bring basically a "knife" to a gun fight. Yes obviously, but my point is Bam Bam was told he couldn't take anything that wasn't authentic to the time period. If Bam Bam had bought a modern automatic, he would have been disobeying orders. To me obeying orders does not make someone naïve; he's a soldier and a good soldier obeys orders.  It doesn't seem like anyone told him (until the last minute) that Flynn bought modern weapons.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Fireball

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

So, did I understand correctly that there was rule against taking advanced weapons back to the past, that Wyatt has been ignoring? How exactly did that work?

"Hey, Wyatt forgot his musket, and there are some hand grenades missing. I'm sure there's no connection though." 

I didn't take it as there being a specific rule about advanced weapons.  They were all told in general they couldn't bring back anything modern, but they still let Lucy wear an underwire bra in the pilot.  So it was always about blending in. I think Wyatt heard that and assumed the gun didn't count because he needed it to do his job and the only person who would see it is the person who would die. Bam Bam heard the rule and took it to the extreme.