S01.E02: Chapter Two: A Touch of Evil

[In2You]

This show feels cartoonish with the overacting styles, dramatic music, and the way they dress. But then at the same time the dialogue, the murder mystery plot and the young teacher sexing the student plot screams trying hard to be dark and edgy. 

[jay741982]

14 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not really in to this show. However if Betty and Veronica just screw it all and run off together OR Betty is a psychopath I might change my mind.

Let me know if either thing happens.

Spoiler

There is a spoiler that might suggest something about Betty you'd like 

[jay741982]

9 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

So what I'm getting is, Veronica wants Betty and Jughead wants Archie. Obviously, that's not the direction the show is going in, but I wish it would. It'd be a lot less painful for all involved.

The rest of it is still as loopy as in the first episode. First off, the guy playing Jughead is not a good enough actor to be narrating this. The dialogue is bad enough without his laboured reciting of it. And they really should have given him a real person name, if they want people to take him seriously as a brooding, artistic type, or as the amateur sleuth. He needs to lose the goofy, ten year old's hat as well. I don't care if the comic book version wears it.

Betty's mother is clearly a narcissist, inflicting emotional damage on her daughters just to make herself feel better. Poor girl. She's already my favourite character, and I want nothing but wins for her. And honestly, I still can't understand how Archie wouldn't be interested in her. She's stunning, and seems like a lovely, intelligent, warm person as well. And she's got more backbone than it first appeared.

I guess her and Veronica are going to be the best part of this show, because the guys still aren't bringing anything interesting to the table. And I guess they went for looks ahead of acting or singing talent for the kid playing Archie.

The murder mystery is just boring and weird. None of the characters are reacting to it like real people, and there seem to be no real stakes to it. Just reinforcing the fever dream vibe that the pilot episode gave me. They seem to be going for a 'still waters run deep' motif with the whole town, but it's just coming across as surreal.

I agree with you on how you can't see How Archie isn't in to Betty like that. Like you I find Betty VERY Attractive. I loved her telling Cheryl to get the Hell out or she'll kill her LOL. Remember though that Archie has Betty on a Pedestal

[femmefan1946]

But didn't they say at the end of the episode that Jason didn't die (via gunshot) till a week after the 4th? So Archie hearing the gunshot wouldn't matter as much, if Jason wasn't shot till a week later.

Who do we know that owns a large freezer? Anybody in the abbatoir or grocery business? Does Pop have a walk in freezer at the Chok'lit Shoppe?

[starri]

Maybe it was Mr Weatherbee.  He gave me some seriously creepy vibes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I really like the show.  I really, really like it.  I wish other people liked it too.  I really liked Jughead this episode.  It's too bad that the one Asian character has to be the total asshole.  I've been noticing this on other shows lately too.  Yeah, LOL, jocks don't kill people.  Right.  Like O.J.

Grundy is a liar, and a bad one at that.  You can't trust that ho!

I noticed that z-e-r-o of the main high school kids are black but the gym teacher (who is so incredibly hot) and Josie and the Pussycats are black.  It's just kind of a strange way to treat race, but I guess the show is trying.  Were any characters from the Archie comic black?  Or non-white?  Are non-white races even alluded to?

Edited February 4, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Sakura12]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I noticed that z-e-r-o of the main high school kids are black but the gym teacher (who is so incredibly hot) and Josie and the Pussycats are black.  It's just kind of a strange way to treat race, but I guess the show is trying.  Were any characters from the Archie comic black?  Or non-white?  Are non-white races even alluded to?

There was a black football player who I'm assuming is Chuck, the coaches the son. They were black in the comics. Josie was white, Valarie was the black Pussycat. There was also Nancy, Chuck's girlfriend. The rest were white. There were no Asian main characters. On this show they made Reggie, Asian. Race wasn't really talked about in the comics, unless they went to different countries and met a bunch of racial stereotypes. The newer comics have added some more diversity. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Sakura12

[Zanne]

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Re: Jughead

And they really should have given him a real person name, if they want people to take him seriously as a brooding, artistic type, or as the amateur sleuth. He needs to lose the goofy, ten year old's hat as well. I don't care if the comic book version wears it.

 

Amen. I don't think many schools/teachers today would permit the nickname Jughead since it can be construed as saying he's an idiot. Did the teacher call him Jughead? I think we saw him in science class once. Plus the hat. If they wanted to update this, they could have made it a regular beanie that he wears all of the time, without the pointed crown edging. Heck, they could have had a small, crown-shaped namebrand logo on the brim of the beanie as a subtle nod.

[Maximum Taco]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

There was a black football player who I'm assuming is Chuck, the coaches the son. They were black in the comics. Josie was white, Valarie was the black Pussycat. There was also Nancy, Chuck's girlfriend. The rest were white. There were no Asian main characters. On this show they made Reggie, Asian. Race wasn't really talked about in the comics, unless they went to different countries and met a bunch of racial stereotypes. The newer comics have added some more diversity. 

There were some minor recurring characters who did live in Riverdale.

There were three Hispanic characters: Frankie Valdez, Maria Rodriguez (who had a dad who was Weatherbee's Asst Principal), and Ginger Lopez.

There was one Indian character: Raj Patel

There was one Japanese character: Tomoko Yoshida (I didn't even remember her name, had to look it up, because she appeared so rarely)

But yeah for the most part Riverdale is a Caucasian town.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Maximum Taco

[Moxie Cat]

Betty's dad is there. He's played by Lochlyn Munro, whom some may know as Prue's dopey auction house boyfriend from season 2 of Charmed. (Also the movie Dead Man on Campus.) I always wondered what happened to him.

I actually don't mind the B/V fast friendship. Sometimes you just click with a person; plus, both badly needed a friend. I hit it off that quickly with one of my best friends in college for both those reasons. Still think this show should be called Betty and Veronica - but at least it's Riverdale and not Archie.

[Last Time Lord]

1 hour ago, Zanne said:

Amen. I don't think many schools/teachers today would permit the nickname Jughead since it can be construed as saying he's an idiot. Did the teacher call him Jughead? I think we saw him in science class once.

He introduced himself as Jughead Jones III to Veronica at Pops. Though, I suppose I could just be really bad at detecting sarcasm.

[Bort]

I remember Jughead's real name in the comics being Forsythe P. Jones. I can't decide which is worse, his parents gave him no chance, did they?

[angora]

Yeah, the B/V friendship is a little too fast and/or forced, but it still works for me, and I'd much rather see this than a season of them hating each other because of boring Archie.  They continue to be my favorite part of the show.  Betty was especially awesome this week.  I like that she tried to be okay with the whole situation and then had to admit she wasn't (I liked the line about how the "nice girl" is supposed to say she's fine,) and I'm really interested in the plotline about her sister (and her mom intentionally keeping Betty away from her?)  I feel like there will be some good meat there, and hopefully, Veronica can help her scheme out a way to visit Polly under her mom's nose.

Having seen more of Jughead now, I'm tentatively giving him my seal of approval.  The brooding still feels a little off to me and some of his lines are way too pretentious, but the dry humor feels in keeping with the character - I loved his line about how they were gonna smile like douches while repressing their emotions.  And burgers!  Jughead/burgers is my OTP.  I'm glad that he and Archie both looked out for each other this week, with him trying to talk some sense into Archie over Miss Grundy and Archie standing up for Jughead to Reggie.  So is the bad blood between them just the fact that Archie checked out on Jughead over the summer and has been distant ever sense (for hearing gunshots on the at-the-time apparent day of Jason's murder/statutory rape reasons, which Jughead obviously didn't know about), or is there more that went down?  Their interactions in the pilot, especially on Jughead's side, made me feel like it was something more.

Loved the scene of the main four at Pop's at the end.  Despite all the unreconciled reasons for awkwardness below the surface, it just felt right, and I loved how Jughead hopped over the seat at the adjoining booth to slip in next to Veronica.

I was excited when I first saw that Josie, Valerie, and Melody were all Black, but I'm a lot less excited if they don't get to do anything but sing.  Have Val or Mel had lines yet?

[Lady Calypso]

26 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Betty's dad is there. He's played by Lochlyn Munro, whom some may know as Prue's dopey auction house boyfriend from season 2 of Charmed. (Also the movie Dead Man on Campus.) I always wondered what happened to him.

Goddamn Jack Sheridan, the worst of Prue's boyfriends. Lochlyn Munro is also the Hey, It's That Hallmark Movie Guy! He's one of the go-to guys when you need a guest star for a show, or you need him in a sappy tv movie. 

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

1 hour ago, Zanne said:

Amen. I don't think many schools/teachers today would permit the nickname Jughead since it can be construed as saying he's an idiot. Did the teacher call him Jughead? I think we saw him in science class once. Plus the hat. If they wanted to update this, they could have made it a regular beanie that he wears all of the time, without the pointed crown edging. Heck, they could have had a small, crown-shaped namebrand logo on the brim of the beanie as a subtle nod.

He introduced himself as Jughead Jones III to Veronica at Pops. Though, I suppose I could just be really bad at detecting sarcasm.

I too was surprised they kept the name Jughead, but for a different reason; I thought it was a name bullies would give to a guy with protruding ears (before it became acceptable for guys to have long hair). Then when I heard he was "Jughead III" I thought it was kind of cool that they were acknowledging that these teens would have to be the grandchildren of the original Archie comics characters, and thought maybe Jughead would explain to Veronica (and the audience) that his grandfather had ears that stuck out like jug handles, but that he co-opted the nickname and branded some successful business with it and even made it his legal name. Yeah, I thought way more about this than the writers did.

[MarkHB]

One thing I noticed in this week's episode: Jughead's hat has pins in it that echo the marks on the comics version...

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thanks for the information, @Maximum Taco and @Sakura12 !

[Last Time Lord]

13 hours ago, MarkHB said:

One thing I noticed in this week's episode: Jughead's hat has pins in it that echo the marks on the comics version...

 

Now That is some attention to detail! I never noticed that

[Maximum Taco]

16 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

He introduced himself as Jughead Jones III to Veronica at Pops. Though, I suppose I could just be really bad at detecting sarcasm.

 

16 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I remember Jughead's real name in the comics being Forsythe P. Jones. I can't decide which is worse, his parents gave him no chance, did they?

 

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I too was surprised they kept the name Jughead, but for a different reason; I thought it was a name bullies would give to a guy with protruding ears (before it became acceptable for guys to have long hair). Then when I heard he was "Jughead III" I thought it was kind of cool that they were acknowledging that these teens would have to be the grandchildren of the original Archie comics characters, and thought maybe Jughead would explain to Veronica (and the audience) that his grandfather had ears that stuck out like jug handles, but that he co-opted the nickname and branded some successful business with it and even made it his legal name. Yeah, I thought way more about this than the writers did.

In the comics Jughead's real name is Forsythe Pendleton Jones III (his dad being Forsythe Pendleton Jones II)

He doesn't like the name though because the first Forsythe Pendleton Jones was a notorious womanizer who had the distinction of being married 9 times. Asexual Jughead no doubt would've wanted to avoid the footsteps of the first Forsythe Pendleton Jones.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Maximum Taco

[starri]

Re: Jughead's name and family.

Spoiler

Skeet Ulrich will be popping up as his father, Forsythe Pendleton Jones II, who is the head of Riverdale's local criminal element.

So his mama probably didn't actually name him Jughead.

Edited February 4, 2017 by starri

[tennisgurl]

I have to say, I did like this episode, and I am interested in watching this show farther. They seem to be going for a Twin Peaks vibe, with a retro mystery thing going on, so I can get behind that. As of now, I like the characters (even Archie, who might not be the most interesting guy, but I think he has potential, and its only episode two) and think the actors are doing a good job.

Bettys mom is a real piece of work. She seems like she just hates everyone, and wants Betty to hate everyone to. What is her deal? Apparently she's been like this forever, so its not just a reaction to whatever happened with Polly and Jason. Speaking of, I would like to know more about that. People keep saying how awful Jason was, what was it about him that made people call him a sociopath?

I don't think they're trying to make the Miss Grundie/Archie thing "sexy" in a PLL way, it looks to me that they're showing her as a lying creep who is clearly manipulating a teenager. At least, that's how I'm reading it. The writers might be doing something else with it, and I'm just reading my own impressions onto it (which are firmly "He was your 15 year old student, ewwwwww"), I don't know. Haven't gotten a full read on this show yet.

I liked the Pussycats version of Sugar Sugar, but I hope they get more to do than sing and act like jerks to random people like in the pilot. I don't have much Archie nostalgia, but I DO have Josie and the Pussycats nostalgia!

[Bill1978]

2 episodes in and I'm still prepared to watch. So that is a good sign. Once again I was reminded of Dawson's Creek. Mainly that the lead character's plots are typically not that interesting compared to everyone else's. I never watched Twin Peaks so apart from the body discovered in a river, I'm guessing it is more about the vibe than the story similarities, cause all I remember from Twin Peaks is it had some loopy strange characters. Something I don't see in Riverdale.

I know that I'm much older than the targeted audience with all the standard love dramas and angst, but I'm sticking around to solve the mystery. I'm just hoping that the show is prepared to help the audience come to a conclusion based on evidence rather than a 'Surprise it was Mr Smith who we only introduced the episode before.'

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I don't think they're trying to make the Miss Grundie/Archie thing "sexy" in a PLL way, it looks to me that they're showing her as a lying creep who is clearly manipulating a teenager.

Totally agree. After this episode Miss Grundy is definitely a master manipulator. She knows exactly what she is doing with Archie, which actually makes this relationship even more difficult to watch. Because for me, it's not about an instant attraction now, it's about why Miss Grundy felt the need to get involved with a student. I feel she may be involved in the death of Jason, but its not like she wants to use Archie as an alibi so will have to rethink that thought.

Speaking of Jason, I feel the actor who was cast is incapable of delivering lines well. I still find it awkward that he didn't speak in that little flashback. And both times he has appeared in moving there was no talking.

The positives continue to be the Betty/Veronica dynamics, Jughead actually made Archie seem interesting this week, Kevin (even though he is just sprouting pip references most teenagers wouldn't understand - I wish one character would respond with What? Who?). Cheryl who I have quickly come to love to hate

The negatives this week included Kevin's treatment of Moose, the public talking of Moose's closetedness. Seriously how can this character still be considered closeted when everyone knows about it and talks about it in non hush hush voices. The pep rally. I know it was raining but really that was the least exciting pep rally ever. The terrible arrangement of Sugar Sugar. That was definitely arranged by some old person thinking it sounded like what the young 'uns like these days. Although I admit that the song sounded better in the grand scheme of the scene than the little snippet released by The CW earlier in the week.

Speaking of Sugar Sugar, did people know that they release the songs from each episode on a weekly schedule. Based upon the iTunes cover, there are plans to reason a soundtrack as well. So far there are 5 songs available to purchase.

The weird. The student lounge. Based upon how people were acting I assumed this was for seniors. But then I remembered that every character in there was a sophomore. So an a non-American I have to ask is this normal?

And was that Betty's mum who paid the coroner off?

[tennisgurl]

19 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

The weird. The student lounge. Based upon how people were acting I assumed this was for seniors. But then I remembered that every character in there was a sophomore. So an a non-American I have to ask is this normal?

I cant speak for every high school in America, but no high school I've ever seen (including my own, small, high school) has ever had a student lounge for any student in the school. The most I've seen are some tables outside of schools or near the cafeteria where students can sit between, before, or after class, but I've never seen a full lounge. I thought that was weird too. Isn't this a small school? It felt more like the lounge in a college dorm then a high school.

[Sakura12]

I think student lounges are a tv show thing. I've never seen a high school have one. I don't think they'd want students lounging around doing nothing. 

[Maximum Taco]

My school had a student council lounge. It's intended purpose was so student council could plan events after school. But we'd frequently just use it as a hangout during lunch or if we had a free period.

Of course it wasn't as nice as Riverdale High's lounge, but we had couches, a mini fridge and even a little TV with a SNES (later N64). Also of course it was only large enough to accommodate the 10 or so members of student council.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Maximum Taco

[Affogato]

Quote

 

I just caught up with this.

So, Cheryl says 'he was supposed to come back.' and then we find out he was shot a week later. Hey, zombies? Some strange witchy twin ritual and when he came back wrong she had to shoot him? Just sayin...

Is there another place in town where the kids hang out because Pop's must be crowded on Saturday night. Maybe that's why everyone frequents the river's edge.

If Veronica's mother is scraping by as a waitress why is Veronica giving out roses and mani-pedi coupons? Did I miss something?

I found myself wishing for more Luke Perry, frankly, and in a less inane roll. Something in a brioche. Why can't I spell? He seems to be like a father bot, hoping for character development. In general I think that the interactions between people don't seem to really be part of an interwoven net of story, yet, just individual interactions between people. Maybe that will change.

[Chas411]

I still like the show but the dialogue is awful. So pretentious. I wish they'd lighten the tone even a bit. All the angst is so overdramatic. I think even one lighter character could make a difference. I think they're going for it with Kevin but I'm not really feeling him as a legitimate character. So far he just seems to be there to provide exposition and an update on what the audience should be thinking...

[BananaRama]

I enjoy this show.  I'm glad that the characters are just angsty teenagers and not angsty teenage vampires or werewolves or wizards.

[paulvdb]

4 hours ago, Affogato said:

So, Cheryl says 'he was supposed to come back.' and then we find out he was shot a week later. Hey, zombies? Some strange witchy twin ritual and when he came back wrong she had to shoot him? Just sayin...

So far there has been no mention of supernatural elements in the show. I don't mind shows with supernatural elements, but I need that to be announced before the premiere or else I'll assume that the show is set in a real non-supernatural world.

My theory is that Jason was going to meet Polly. That would also explain why Cheryl accused Polly when she visited Betty. Why else would Cheryl think that Polly killed Jason when she is supposed to be in some group home?

[Scott]

On 2/2/2017 at 7:55 PM, bmoore4026 said:

He [Archie] did look nice in that football uniform, though.

I don't want this to end up being the only reason I watch this show, but it sure doesn't hurt.

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, Affogato said:

I found myself wishing for more Luke Perry, frankly, and in a less inane roll. Something in a brioche.

Thank you for this!

[ParadoxLost]

13 hours ago, Affogato said:

If Veronica's mother is scraping by as a waitress why is Veronica giving out roses and mani-pedi coupons? Did I miss something?

Veronica's mom got delivered a bag of money in the premiere, so I'm assuming that they are keeping up the pretense of a lack of funds but have hidden stashes of money from Veronica's Dad.

[Tiger]

9 hours ago, Scott said:

I don't want this to end up being the only reason I watch this show, but it sure doesn't hurt.

Heh, I'm only watching for KJ Apa and reminding myself that thankfully he is at least 19.  

My boyfriend said that not only does he not pass for 15, he doesnt pass for 19 either.  He said that Apa just has a certain body AND facial maturity that most guys dont get until they approach or hit 30.  

ETA: I think Apa and whichever Sprouse twin is playing Jughead have some chemistry, and it really stands out given the total lack of chemistry between Apa and the Grundy, Betty, and Veronica actresses.  iMHO, he didnt generate chemistry with Brie Larson in A Dog's Purpose either.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Tiger

[Maximum Taco]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

Veronica's mom got delivered a bag of money in the premiere, so I'm assuming that they are keeping up the pretense of a lack of funds but have hidden stashes of money from Veronica's Dad.

I would still expect Hermione to give Veronica a talking to about it.

Mani-Pedis at the local spa is one thing, but flying in cupcakes from NYC is not exactly being discrete about your secret stash of funds.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also, weirdest moment of the episode was Archie not bothering to get dressed as he ran to Miss Grundy's place half naked. No teenager would do that; at the very least, he would have put on pants. 

If it's cool enough in the daytime to be wearing a heavy letter jacket, it's probably too cold at night to run around in nothing but shorts. Just sayin'. 

[Oscirus]

Ten observations about this episode:

1. In the age of Game of Thrones, incest is hardly shocking, I'm sick enough to kind of expect it on these type of "dark" shows. Implying it just make it seem sillier.

2. I get that Archie is a hormonal teen but what the hell? The way he's all over Miss grundy, I'm shocked that Jughead is the only person that's picked up on their relationship.  Is Archie dumb enough to believe Grundy's threat about him getting in trouble if their relationship is found out? 

3. I'm all for making Veronica nice for the sake of Betty, but now she's consoling Cheryl?  I'm all for making concessions, but come on!

4. So  the only thing they got right for Weatherbee is that he's bald.  OK.

5. I like the added darkness. I was starting to complain about Betty being such a pushover, but her threatening to kill Cheryl was awesome. Ditto for Archie threatening Jughead and actually getting into a fight (even if he did get his ass whipped).

6. Prick Jock Reggie is all kinds of awesome.  Hopefully his scheming side gets highlighted on the show as well.

7. The Betty Archie relationship is interesting. Those two are on two totally different wavelengths. It was perfectly summed up by their meeting on the football field. Archie wants a friend, Betty want a boyfriend.  It's also an interesting look at gender issues. If Archie treated Betty the way she treats him for turning her down, Archie would likely be seen as selfish, but since it's Betty, she's seen as smart for embracing her emotions. 

8. Two episodes in and we finally get our first Jughead  mention about Burgers? You don't even do something as easy as having a plate of burgers by Jughead as he's writing? You're slipping show.

9. Does this show know the meaning of being in the closet? Moose picking Kevin to be his lab partner and then spending the rest of the time hitting on him, is the opposite of being in the closet.

10. I know that last scene was supposed to set up the future triangle but I think they could've done it better. Jughead's last comments came off as gratuitous.

Two episodes in still team Ronnie-Archie. Can't get on board with Betty-Archie until they develop that relationship better on the show

[tennisgurl]

I have to say, I was glad at least one thing has been brought over from the comics...Reggie is still an asshole. Love it.

I literally yelled "WHAT?!" when Miss Grundie was saying they would BOTH go to jail for sleeping together. Lady, that is NOT how statutory rape works! Teenage victim does not to go to jail! I can only assume she knows that, and is lying to manipulate Archie, and Archie, being a dumb hormonal teenaged boy, is buying it. Maybe Jughead will set him straight. Or he`ll just do a five second Google search.

[Mabinogia]

I would love it if Jughead tells Archie he should confess, Archie explains that he can't because he doesn't want to go to jail and Jughead is all "dude, what? that's not how that works" explains it all to him and Archie realizes that his forbidden love was really just some pervy older woman preying on him. Then the real 60 something year old white haired Miss Grundy could come in and teach him music.

I kind of love Jugheads beanie btw. it's a nice way to pull in the original look of the character without seeming completely ridiculous.

[Zanne]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I literally yelled "WHAT?!" when Miss Grundie was saying they would BOTH go to jail for sleeping together. Lady, that is NOT how statutory rape works! Teenage victim does not to go to jail!

While I heartily disapprove of the Archie/Grundy mess (stop doing this trope, TV!), I thought she meant hearing the gunshot and not reporting it would get Archie arrested, not the sex with her part.

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, Tiger said:

My boyfriend said that not only does he not pass for 15, he doesnt pass for 19 either.  He said that Apa just has a certain body AND facial maturity that most guys dont get until they approach or hit 30.  

I truly thought he was pushing 30. I couldn't believe it when I read he was only 19.

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I kind of love Jugheads beanie btw. it's a nice way to pull in the original look of the character without seeming completely ridiculous.

I agree.

41 minutes ago, Zanne said:

While I heartily disapprove of the Archie/Grundy mess (stop doing this trope, TV!), I thought she meant hearing the gunshot and not reporting it would get Archie arrested, not the sex with her part.

That's what I thought, too. But I also think Grundy is coming off super manipulative and possibly evil, so it wouldn't surprise me if she was trying to make him believe he'd also get in trouble for the sex.

Edited February 5, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Danny Franks]

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Two episodes in still team Ronnie-Archie. Can't get on board with Betty-Archie until they develop that relationship better on the show

The problem I have with Archie/Veronica so far is that neither of them seem into each other, apart from the initial meeting. Even the kiss felt weird and forced. And then in the second episode, Veronica is all about Betty, and Archie is split between Betty, Jughead and his teacher.

The only thing telling me that Veronica is part of a love triangle is the comic book history. Nothing on the show.

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

The only thing telling me that Veronica is part of a love triangle is the comic book history. Nothing on the show.

Veronica seems far more into being Betty's bestie than she is in Archie so I can't see her suddenly falling so hard for him that she would risk her friendship with Betty. Unless they decide to turn the triangle into a circle, because I can see Betty wanting Archie, Archie wanting Veronica and Veronica wanting Betty. But they would have to totally change Veronica's character to make me buy her suddenly going after Archie. Unless they decide to be a threesome.

[Danny Franks]

23 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Veronica seems far more into being Betty's bestie than she is in Archie so I can't see her suddenly falling so hard for him that she would risk her friendship with Betty. Unless they decide to turn the triangle into a circle, because I can see Betty wanting Archie, Archie wanting Veronica and Veronica wanting Betty. But they would have to totally change Veronica's character to make me buy her suddenly going after Archie. Unless they decide to be a threesome.

Exactly. Hell,  she was even telling Archie that she felt like Betty was 'her future life' (which, yeah, kinda not platonic). If she feels that strongly about her new pal after just a couple of days, then how would she ever knowingly betray her by going after Archie? Unless they move Betty to a place where she is no longer interested in him, but then the triangle resolves itself. Unless, of course, they rehash the tired old trope of, 'I didn't know what I wanted until someone else wanted it too'.

Just seems like it would make more sense to have Betty be the centre, whether romantically or otherwise. She's the one they both want a relationship with.

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, Zanne said:

While I heartily disapprove of the Archie/Grundy mess (stop doing this trope, TV!), I thought she meant hearing the gunshot and not reporting it would get Archie arrested, not the sex with her part.

I thought about this briefly, but I honestly think that Miss Grundy was manipulating Archie into believing that he'd go to jail for having sex with her, and not really about the gunshot. I've decided to rewatch that scene. Here's what was said between the two:

Quote

MISS GRUNDY: We know exactly what the police know. That a gun was fired, that a boy was shot. We don't know by whom.
ARCHIE: We know when it was fired. That's something the police still don't know.
MISS GRUNDY: They're performing an autopsy.
ARCHIE: We could call them anonymously.
MISS GRUNDY: This is NOT...a negotiation. Archie. This is our lives. If anybody knows that we were there, I could lose my job, you could be expelled. We could go to jail! 

So, no, it really seems like she's more concerned with the relationship part, not the lying about being there part. She's making all of these excuses to not go to the police because she's concerned with being arrested, nothing more. Archie's giving some pretty valid reasons to go to the police, even making sacrifices to keep Miss Grundy out of it by the end of the episode, but she's more concerned with her own life being ruined. She doesn't care about Archie's guilt and wanting to go to the police to find Jason's killer. Even if telling them about the gunshot will be proven moot, even if the medical examiner can still get the time of death down without Archie's statement (and now we know that they discover that Jason died after the 4th), she doesn't seem to care at all about doing the right thing. She's not protecting Archie either by telling him to keep quiet. She's using her authority as an adult to use him to protect herself. 

[Oscirus]

Lady Calypso answered that part much better then I could've.

 

Now onto the other stuff. It's fun being in the minority but let's go.

Quote

 

The problem I have with Archie/Veronica so far is that neither of them seem into each other, apart from the initial meeting. Even the kiss felt weird and forced. And then in the second episode, Veronica is all about Betty, and Archie is split between Betty, Jughead and his teacher.

The only thing telling me that Veronica is part of a love triangle is the comic book history. Nothing on the show.

 

To be fair, at the given time Archie's into Grundy and Veronica's just recently arrived. I would argue that the kiss in the closet showed there was a mutual attraction despite Veronica and Archie's misgivings. 

Also, Jughead's final narration pretty much foreshadowed the upcoming triangle.

Quote

Veronica seems far more into being Betty's bestie than she is in Archie so I can't see her suddenly falling so hard for him that she would risk her friendship with Betty. Unless they decide to turn the triangle into a circle, because I can see Betty wanting Archie, Archie wanting Veronica and Veronica wanting Betty. But they would have to totally change Veronica's character to make me buy her suddenly going after Archie.

We don't know what Veronica's into. This has happened over the course of a day and it's not like Archie has pursued her for her to shut him down.  She spent the majority of the day defending Archie to Betty.

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If she feels that strongly about her new pal after just a couple of days, then how would she ever knowingly betray her by going after Archie?

How would that be a betrayal. Betty asked and Archie said he wasn't into her. Does that ban those two from dating just because Betty has an unrequited crush on him? If the roles were reversed and Betty wasn't into Archie, would it be fair for him to expect Jughead not to pursue her due to his crush?

[jay741982]

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Exactly. Hell,  she was even telling Archie that she felt like Betty was 'her future life' (which, yeah, kinda not platonic). If she feels that strongly about her new pal after just a couple of days, then how would she ever knowingly betray her by going after Archie? Unless they move Betty to a place where she is no longer interested in him, but then the triangle resolves itself. Unless, of course, they rehash the tired old trope of, 'I didn't know what I wanted until someone else wanted it too'.

Just seems like it would make more sense to have Betty be the centre, whether romantically or otherwise. She's the one they both want a relationship with.

Hell yes as I think Bettys my favorite I'd love for an twist on the triangle being that eventually both Archie and Veronica want Betty 

[tricknasty]

How old is Polly supposed to be? Are Betty and Polly twins? Since Polly was dating Jason and Jason/Cheryl are the same age as Betty...

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, jay741982 said:

 I'd love for an twist on the triangle being that eventually both Archie and Veronica want Betty 

If they absolutely must do a triangle, and considering it's the CW they must, then I'd rather it'd go this way, too. 

I wasn't even thinking about Polly's age in relation to Jason. I just assumed she was older than Betty, but didn't even think about how that would mean she was older than Jason. Now I'm even more intrigued by that situation tbh. ETA: This made me wonder if Polly was a character in the comics. Was she?

Would anyone be interested in a spoiler free spec thread? I'm not reading spoilers but I'd like to discuss what might be happening with the mystery so I was going to make one, but then it occurred to me that there might not be any others interested in such a thing.

Edited February 6, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[paulvdb]

I don't know why, but I assumed that Polly was older than Betty. If she was dating Jason and the twins are the same age as Betty (give or take a few months) Polly would probably not be more than a year older or younger than Betty.

[Danny Franks]

Plot twist: Polly is actually Betty's alternate personality, currently locked away by the drugs that Betty thinks are adderall. Everyone just talks about her like she's a different person because they're scared of Betty going crazy again.