S01.E14: I Call Marriage

[camom]

Quote

To be fair, the "kids" are like 15 years old, so they can fix their own dinner and do homework for the couple hours after school lets out before their dad comes home. 

Some teenagers, however, need closer supervision than younger kids because they can get into more "sophisticated" trouble (drinking, smoking, sex, etc.).  I think Kevin could be one of those teenagers.  If a parent is around it at least makes it more difficult.  

[3 is enough]

I don't have an issue with the possibility that Jack's death contributed to Kate's weight gain.  I think it is fairly common that someone who had a tendency to gain weight easily as a child would spiral out of control as an adult as the result of experiencing some form of trauma. Often it is the result of being the victim of some sort of abuse, but the sudden death of a beloved parent could certainly qualify. And the drumming scene a couple of weeks ago seemed to hint at this being a factor.

Edited February 8, 2017 by 3 is enough

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

As This Is Us 'Calls Marriage,' How Do We Rank The Couples?

Al Lowe counts them down from 'blargh' to bliss.

[Tikichick]

It was interesting to see a glimpse of Jack and Rebecca's wedding given what we know about Rebecca's mother and her attitude about Jack.

[Subrookie]

3 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

You are right. Which makes it even worse.  I was agreeing with you. 

Not sure why people are getting so fixated on this. Have you watched NCIS? The cast is supposed to be in Virginia/DC but it's quite obviously filmed in S California. There's often palm trees in the shots.

[Laurie4H]

I think it would have been more realistic to have someone who is maybe 50 lbs overweight to play Kate....more realistic that she would have 2 men after her as well.....but maybe Jacks death does play a part in being morbidly obese.  Also they would need to explain why she also lost only 1 lb after working her but off supposedly on a few episodes back.  I need to loose 40 to 50 and lost 8 lbs in a week (water weight of course) cutting back on carbs and I have hypothyroidism.  Someone her size should be able to loose a lot more than that in a small amount of time.

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

I think it would have been more realistic to have someone who is maybe 50 lbs overweight to play Kate....more realistic that she would have 2 men after her as well.....but maybe Jacks death does play a part in being morbidly obese.  Also they would need to explain why she also lost only 1 lb after working her but off supposedly on a few episodes back.  I need to loose 40 to 50 and lost 8 lbs in a week (water weight of course) cutting back on carbs and I have hypothyroidism.  Someone her size should be able to loose a lot more than that in a small amount of time.

Possibly, but not guaranteed.

[zumpie]

  59 minutes ago, zumpie said:

Both younger actresses ARE the case of "you need to diet and exercise more and you'll probably always have to largely watch what you eat". Metz is "morbidly obese and should be under a physician's care" (and I'm not being mean, I'm stating a fact).

Yes, there is a big difference between needing to lose some weight and being morbidly obese.  I mean there is no way Kate will not suffer from extremely tough health problems as she gets into her forties.  I am not very tall and have some weight to lose.  It really reeks havoc on my small frame.  This is not a lifestyle choice, but she probably is a great choice for the surgery, because I do not think diet and exercise alone will get her to a place where she can be healthy (and I mean healthy, not skinny).

Precisely. And as a one thin, now heavier (from age/pregnancy) person, I really hate how the show depicts this----because while I could be, at least, thinner, again (and I'm considerably older than Metz)----I'm far from anything approaching obese. Ditto my daughter.

And contrary to some of the posts upthread about "but maybe she gained weight over dadddeeeee" or "lots of chubby kids grow to be obese". Just no, Metz is someone with a medical condition and no way was she ever remotely as small as the two girls who play younger versions of her.

There is a HUGE difference between "fat" and "morbidly, extremely obese, needs to be medically supervised". Metz falls into the latter. And, agree, not a fan of surgery, but she's the specific type who actually needs it.

[wilnil]

When Kevin first went to Sophie's place, I also thought the writers had just invented her character on the spur of the moment, but then NBC re-ran "The Trip" episode -- and on the tree where they'd all carved their names, there's a heart with (IIRC) "KP + SB" carved there. So now I think they had Sophie in mind even as they were setting up the Kevin/Olivia/Sloane triangle.

[ClareWalks]

A lot of very obese people were less fat as teenagers. Our teenage metabolism tends to be much higher than our 30-something metabolism, so it's very easy for me to assume the character gained weight in/after college.

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, zumpie said:

Precisely. And as a one thin, now heavier (from age/pregnancy) person, I really hate how the show depicts this----because while I could be, at least, thinner, again (and I'm considerably older than Metz)----I'm far from anything approaching obese. Ditto my daughter.

And contrary to some of the posts upthread about "but maybe she gained weight over dadddeeeee" or "lots of chubby kids grow to be obese". Just no, Metz is someone with a medical condition and no way was she ever remotely as small as the two girls who play younger versions of her.

There is a HUGE difference between "fat" and "morbidly, extremely obese, needs to be medically supervised". Metz falls into the latter. And, agree, not a fan of surgery, but she's the specific type who actually needs it.

That is fine for you and your daughter but yes people can and go from chubby kids to morbidly obese in the course of 20 years. I know several, does everyone? Of course not and I have no idea about what Chrissy was like as a teen but it's not unusual.

[ClareWalks]

Yeah, I don't think the show is saying that every person who was "chubby" in high school will become morbidly obese. My husband was skinny as a kid, became morbidly obese in college/grad school (about 320 lb), then became skinny again and is an Ironman at 180 lb. Everyone is different.

Edited February 8, 2017 by ClareWalks

[Laurie4H]

13 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Yeah, I don't think the show is saying that every person who was "chubby" in high school will become morbidly obese. My husband was skinny as a kid, became morbidly obese in college/grad school (about 320 lb), then became skinny again and is an Ironman at 180 lb. Everyone is differen

My husband was also skinny until his late 20's now in his early 40's he is 280 lbs....he isn't a walking blimp but a big guy who needs to lose weight so yeah I guess everyone is different.

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Do you have access to ABC's show called Extreme Weight Loss or NBC's The Biggest Loser?  Those shows are full of people who gained 200+ lbs. in 20 years or less.  It's really not even a rare thing to gain 10 or more lbs. a year.  

I know a 20 year old who has gained 20 lbs since Christmas battling depression.  He's not been heavy until this has cropped up.  Of course, anecdotal since I will go out on a limb and suggest none of you reading this know this kid.

[TeeVeeWatcher]

The actor who plays the horse jerk is from my area and the local news did an interview with him before his first episode aired where he gives a tiny spoiler that he has some 'flirting behavior' with Kate. And I watch every episode thinking THAT'S FLIRTING?!? Here's the link to the interview if you are interested.

Also, Jack said he went ahead and set up the vacant apartment for their rendezvous. There were burning candles on the floor in the living room. How many ways is this stupid?! So he lit the candles an hour ago and hopes the place doesn't burn down before he gets back? He bought the world's longest burning candles?  This sort of thing bugs me (sort of like the going out the front door to work) because how does someone on set not say "that's dumb, you wouldn't leave those taper candles burning when you leave the building ... let's just stick with the twinkle lights".

[zumpie]

  18 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Do you have access to ABC's show called Extreme Weight Loss or NBC's The Biggest Loser?  Those shows are full of people who gained 200+ lbs. in 20 years or less.  It's really not even a rare thing to gain 10 or more lbs. a year.  

I know a 20 year old who has gained 20 lbs since Christmas battling depression.  He's not been heavy until this has cropped up.  Of course, anecdotal since I will go out on a limb and suggest none of you reading this know this kid.

20 pounds is merely a quick weight gain, not obese. Per the "my husband now weighs 280". THAT also, isn't obese. Obesity is medically defined as 100 pounds overweight, morbid obesity (Metz) is even more than that.

Very few people consistently gain 10 pounds per year (without losing any of it) until they've gained 200 pounds over 20 years and ARE now morbidly obese. Actually, the interesting thing about nearly everyone on all those weight loss shows is that they're unusual cases (and precisely why they're on the show). Typically they're youngish, as well AND all report significant health issues AFTER their weight loss because of how unhealthy those shows are.

And plenty of them have always been heavy. While there are a few people who go from thin to morbidly obese (after all, anything IS possible), it's extremely unusual and has nothing to do with how generally inaccurate the show's depiction (and, for that matter, overall message) is.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, zumpie said:

Obesity is medically defined as 100 pounds overweight, 

Very few people consistently gain 10 pounds per year

I don't think either of these is accurate.  Obese is usually defined as BMI over 30.  At 5'4", I would be 'normal' weight at 145 but obese at 175, by the standard BMI definitions, so only 30 lbs 'overweight'.  

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/defining.html

Edited February 8, 2017 by Guest

[ClareWalks]

8 minutes ago, zumpie said:

20 pounds is merely a quick weight gain, not obese. Per the "my husband now weighs 280". THAT also, isn't obese. Obesity is medically defined as 100 pounds overweight, morbid obesity (Metz) is even more than that.

False. I think you are defining obese as "super, super, ultra fat," but it is a body mass index classification that a LOT of people fall under. As a 5'11" woman, I am medically "obese" if I weigh over 210 lb. If I lost 100 lb, I'd be dead from starvation. Or one hell of a runway model.

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, zumpie said:

20 pounds is merely a quick weight gain, not obese. Per the "my husband now weighs 280". THAT also, isn't obese. Obesity is medically defined as 100 pounds overweight, morbid obesity (Metz) is even more than that.

Very few people consistently gain 10 pounds per year (without losing any of it) until they've gained 200 pounds over 20 years and ARE now morbidly obese. Actually, the interesting thing about nearly everyone on all those weight loss shows is that they're unusual cases (and precisely why they're on the show). Typically they're youngish, as well AND all report significant health issues AFTER their weight loss because of how unhealthy those shows are.

And plenty of them have always been heavy. While there are a few people who go from thin to morbidly obese (after all, anything IS possible), it's extremely unusual and has nothing to do with how generally inaccurate the show's depiction (and, for that matter, overall message) is.

I did not state 20 pounds made him obese.  I was responding to someone else's comment that a lot of people gain 10 lbs in a year. 

I've seen it happen often enough where people go through a bout of depression and pick up a significant amount of weight.  Untreated it is not uncommon for them to become morbidly obese.  It's also common for women to suffer post partum depression, not drop pregnancy weight, continue to gain and have that situation linger on where they become chronically depressed, not address the depression and find themselves hitting the menopausal years and the weight gain really spirals and they are unable to drop the weight without significant efforts, which the depression inhibits. 

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, Driad said:

13(?) year old Kate asked her mother for a tampon. Kate should have her own supply. Give her the box, or at least a handful.

My daughters always ran out w/o telling me. So they often hit me up. Felt real to me.

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I probably should go straight to Unpopular Opinions, but it's about this episode so here goes:

I can't stand Sophie.  I, thankfully, never see this type of woman in real life although she's everywhere in the fictional world.  She has known Kevin since she was a little girl, she was married to him for several years, and  yet after a twelve year lapse,she can't sit down with him and have a half hour conversation ?

While I don't  hate Sophie (I'm more meh about her) I did think it seemed a lot of heat (anger) for a relationship that's been over for 12 years. OTOH I thought it very strange that Kevin thought they could just pick up where they left off. I wonder why they chose a bi-coastal life. Nursing is a pretty portable profession (I think she would have been finished with her schooling at 24 - but I don't know).

 

1 minute ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't think either of these is accurate.  Obese is usually defined as BMI over 30 or higher.  I believe I hit obese about 40 lbs. over my highest 'normal' weight (by that BMI definition below).

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/defining.html

Beat me to it. I was just ready to link to this. I know this is purely anecdotal - but I've had a high BMI for the last 25 years (in  my 60's now), and my health, by every other measure is excellent. BP, blood sugar, lipids. My doctor is pleased. People are different, bodies are different. Statistics aren't gospel, but averages of data. Overall health is not just a single number, but a combination of them.

[3 is enough]

Quote

Obese is usually defined as BMI over 30 or higher.

Technically true, but the big fault of BMI is that it does not account for muscle mass.  So my 5'8" son was technically obese at 200 lbs, but the fact was that he played hockey and had thighs like an olympic speed skater, yet still had a 34 inch waist.  So sometimes BMI alone is not an accurate indicator of obesity.

Edited February 8, 2017 by 3 is enough

[camom]

Quote

Metz is someone with a medical condition and no way was she ever remotely as small as the two girls who play younger versions of her.

According to this article, Metz was a size 12 when she started out in LA (in other words, normal size), then lost 50 pounds.  She obviously has not always been obese.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Technically true, but the big fault of BMI is that it does not account for muscle mass.  So my 5'8" son was technically obese at 200 lbs, but the fact was that he played hockey and had thighs like an olympic speed skater, yet still had a 34 inch waist.  So sometimes BMI alone is not an accurate indicator of obesity.

Very few of us fall into the category of 'too muscular for BMI to be a useful rough indicator', though.  It's about averages.  People who weigh 200 lbs. normally have more adverse health issues than lighter people.  There are very healthy and very unhealthy people at all weights, though, of course.  

A lot of sources recommend just using waist measurement.  Though then the people who are extremely pear shaped are misled.  Heh.

[Cyranetta]

Quote

rankly, my favorite part of their divorce discussion was when Shelly smiled at Miguel as she said they wanted to end the marriage while they could still be friends and co-parents.  I liked both Shelly and Miguel more after that.

Agreed. But that scene did arouse my curiosity, since isn't this the first time Miguel has been associated with being a parent? If they have a kid or kids, will any of them show up in later episodes (or is it possible that Sophie is the child of Shelly and Miguel)?

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, Cyranetta said:

Agreed. But that scene did arouse my curiosity, since isn't this the first time Miguel has been associated with being a parent? If they have a kid or kids, will any of them show up in later episodes (or is it possible that Sophie is the child of Shelly and Miguel)?

It was mentioned that they had two kids in the episode where we first meet Shelly and the the triplets get conceived in the bathroom during the Super Bowl.

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I realize a lot of viewers are into picking apart the minutiae of each and every detail of the setting and time period, but I'm generally able to look past an awful lot of that.  One thing that jumped out at me, yelled right in my face and I could not look away from in the episode was Jack and Rebecca sitting on the bathroom floor of that empty apartment -- with Rebecca's champagne glass millimeters from the commode!  Kinda killed the romantic ambiance we were supposed to be looking at, at least for me. 

And I kept thinking about how they need to give that tub a good cleaning before they leave cuz... ew.

[SueB]

4 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

It was said in a past episode, when Beth thought she might be pregnant, that she was getting ready to go back to work full-time, which I took to mean that she is currently working part-time (from home, which is why she needed Kevin out of her home office).

Beth is a lawyer.

[zumpie]

  Quote

Metz is someone with a medical condition and no way was she ever remotely as small as the two girls who play younger versions of her.

According to this article, Metz was a size 12 when she started out in LA (in other words, normal size), then lost 50 pounds.  She obviously has not always been obese.

And yet there's another article where she gushes how the show has given her (in the contract mandated weight loss for story line/fat shaming purposes) "the confidence she's never had to finally lose weight". TV infotainement articles aren't always factual....

I did a search and couldn't find ANY pictures of Metz thin (a 5'5" size 12, who lost 50 pounds would be a size 6 at the largest, that's thin) or even remotely "average" (size 12) or even merely "chubby" or fat.....Every image is her and HUGE. And until I see pictures of her at any of the above (and not subsequently), I'm going to take that as something her publicist whipped up.

[SueB]

Well I liked the episode because although it still has some obvious "TV-ness" to it, I feel like there's a reality to many of the emotional moments.

Kate & Toby: First, I think she's going to Horse's Ass (is that a better name?) to threaten to report him.  I don't think she's REMOTELY interested.  If I would hazard a guess, this is going to help us to understand that she has a decent sense of self, even though it always doesn't show.  IRL I think Kate would have waited two weeks post surgery before heading to an immersive camp.  Because Toby's point about waking up alone in NYC after major heart surgery is, in fact, valid.  I've give ++ points to Toby for sincerely not wanting to ruin her efforts and -- points for signing up for a day of classes without discussing it first with Kate.  I think they'll be fine and I'm okay with them showing Toby is insecure and oversteps.  Good on Kate for sticking to her guns.

Beth & Randall: I like the "I call marriage" timeout catchphrase but I think insisting he go to the chess tournament without first finding out why he's freaking was a mistake.  Randall is NOT all right.  And Beth knows it.  I think she needs to take him out for a long drive, sit in a park, and just let him explain everything.  She understands his stress issues and he's melting down.  Pushing him to the tournament was not a good idea without understanding his work stress.  Which is REAL.  And serious.  

Kevin & Sophie: Kevin can be tender, considerate, and utterly CLUELESS in the space of 60 seconds (as pointed out in the "That Was Us").  I loved his argument to get the booth. I loved that he came over to make her feel better in a claustrophobic situation.  I think he's absolutely sincere about loving her but needs to be kicked in the privates for not considering the HELL he put her through.  You need to understand that better Kevin before you ask her to give you a chance.  I really like the fondness in her voice when she asked about Kate.  I want to see those two (Kate & Sophie) reconnect.  I want Kate to hand Kevin a reality check moment on what Sophie went through.  OTOH, I have zero problem with Kevin not using his real name on Facebook and using that as an opportunity to stalk the woman he still loved.  Having an affair in LA was STUPID and destructive to the both of them.  He needs to know WHY it happened and why it would never happen again.  

Rebecca & Jack:  Yes, going to the old apartment was TBRG (The Big Romantic Gesture) and nicely done. But I feel like Jack looked like a bit of an ass when he was giving passive/aggressive shade to Rebecca about her singing.  And the two of them seemed too mechanical and detached in that morning routine scene (after having been married 16+ years).  They were in trouble and both, IMO, knew it.  So Miguel's marriage failing was a very important cautionary tale.  I'm glad Jack saw it as the wakeup call they both need.  I actually don't mind her doing a tour with the band but I think they need to agree to some ground rules.  If the band does well on the tour... where does that lead to?  Is Rebecca prepared to devote the time to music that could be demanded if the tour goes well?  Once the offers are on the table, it's VERY hard to say "no".  And yet ultimately, there's not enough money in that kind of a lifestyle to support the family.  And the kids aren't old enough to have weeks without Mom.  Forget woman vs man... if her job covered the bills, I think Jack would actually stay home.  But it's not likely too.  So the cost (time away from family) is likely to increase with dollar value not keeping pace with the time commitment.  

Screw You Miguel:  Not because he gave bad advice to Jack -- no, that was helpful and he was a good friend there.  Screw you to Miguel for just letting his marriage go without any counseling or real effort.  So many people at this mid-life time start to think "is this all there is?" and they panic as they stare at the backside of 40+.  They put their families' through hell.  Marriage is not a "feeling", it is a commitment.  Now if they were truly having serious arguments and were incompatible with misaligned expectations -- then no issue from me.  But Miguel just "meh'd" his way out of a family.  That sucks IMO. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by SueB

[zumpie]

Well I liked the episode because although it still has some obvious "TV-ness" to it, I feel like there's a reality to many of the emotional moments.

Kate & Toby: First, I think she's going to Horse's Ass (is that a better name?) to threaten to report him.  I don't think she's REMOTELY interested.  If I would hazard a guess, this is going to help us to understand that she has a decent sense of self, even though it always doesn't show.  IRL I think Kate would have waited two weeks post surgery before heading to an immersive camp.  Because Toby's point about waking up alone in NYC after major heart surgery is, in fact, valid.  I've give ++ points to Toby for sincerely not wanting to ruin her efforts and -- points for signing up for a day of classes without discussing it first with Kate.  I think they'll be fine and I'm okay with them showing Toby is insecure and oversteps.  Good on Kate for sticking to her guns.

Beth & Randall: I like the "I call marriage" timeout catchphrase but I think insisting he go to the chess tournament without first finding out why he's freaking was a mistake.  Randall is NOT all right.  And Beth knows it.  I think she needs to take him out for a long drive, sit in a park, and just let him explain everything.  She understands his stress issues and he's melting down.  Pushing him to the tournament was not a good idea without understanding his work stress.  Which is REAL.  And serious.  

Kevin & Sophie: Kevin can be tender, considerate, and utterly CLUELESS in the space of 60 seconds (as pointed out in the "That Was Us").  I loved his argument to get the booth. I loved that he came over to make her feel better in a claustrophobic situation.  I think he's absolutely sincere about loving her but needs to be kicked in the privates for not considering the HELL he put her through.  You need to understand that better Kevin before you ask her to give you a chance.  I really like the fondness in her voice when she asked about Kate.  I want to see those two (Kate & Sophie) reconnect.  I want Kate to hand Kevin a reality check moment on what Sophie went through.  OTOH, I have zero problem with Kevin not using his real name on Facebook and using that as an opportunity to stalk the woman he still loved.  Having an affair in LA was STUPID and destructive to the both of them.  He needs to know WHY it happened and why it would never happen again.  

Rebecca & Jack:  Yes, going to the old apartment was TBRG (The Big Romantic Gesture) and nicely done. But I feel like Jack looked like a bit of an ass when he was giving passive/aggressive shade to Rebecca about her singing.  And the two of them seemed too mechanical and detached in that morning routine scene (after having been married 16+ years).  They were in trouble and both, IMO, knew it.  So Miguel's marriage failing was a very important cautionary tale.  I'm glad Jack saw it as the wakeup call they both need.  I actually don't mind her doing a tour with the band but I think they need to agree to some ground rules.  If the band does well on the tour... where does that lead to?  Is Rebecca prepared to devote the time to music that could be demanded if the tour goes well?  Once the offers are on the table, it's VERY hard to say "no".  And yet ultimately, there's not enough money in that kind of a lifestyle to support the family.  And the kids aren't old enough to have weeks without Mom.  Forget woman vs man... if her job covered the bills, I think Jack would actually stay home.  But it's not likely too.  So the cost (time away from family) is likely to increase with dollar value not keeping pace with the time commitment.  

Screw You Miguel:  Not because he gave bad advice to Jack -- no, that was helpful and he was a good friend there.  Screw you to Miguel for just letting his marriage go without any counseling or real effort.  So many people at this mid-life time start to think "is this all there is?" and they panic as they stare at the backside of 40+.  They put their families' through hell.  Marriage is not a "feeling", it is a commitment.  Now if they were truly having serious arguments and were incompatible with misaligned expectations -- then no issue from me.  But Miguel just "meh'd" his way out of a family.  That sucks IMO. 

I agree about the whole "giving up on marriage too easily part"----I really, really don't get it. A co-worker has been twice married and divorced and commented, "yeah, I guess we could've tried to make it work, but this seemed like the bolder, smarter thing to do".....really????

To me (and I'm not religious, Miguel would be, at least, nominally Catholic, marriage is a huge commitment, the same as being a parent to your kids. I don't understand this shrugging, amicable divorce crap. If you can do things that civilly, then fucking stay married and make shit work!

[Granny58]

I know I'm an outlier here, but I don't give Beth any kudos for "I call marriage."  I think it would have been more supportive to Randall to let him keep up with his job obligations.  It was a chess game...not the daughter's wedding.  Edit:  As I read comments I see I'm not the only one, so phew!

20 hours ago, chocolatine said:

The Kevin and Sophie story leaves me absolutely cold. Sophie seems insipid and the two actors have zero chemistry. I saw more of a spark between Kevin and Sloane than between Kevin and Sophie.

Yep.

14 hours ago, PRgal said:

I think Toby is gross too.  He's verging onto stalker territory by barging in on Kate's retreat like that.  And also, I didn't know light up shoes came in adult sizes. 

I loved his shoes...I just can't stand his mouth hanging open all the time.  

Edited February 9, 2017 by Granny58
I learned more stuff

[kili]

Quote

I think it would have been more supportive to Randall to let him keep up with his job obligations.  

He found out that morning he had a chess match to attend (although, he should have known sooner if he had checked what his daughter had written) and then he later allowed himself to get baited into the dinner. He had already made the commitment to attend the chess match. If he had booked the dinner before agreeing to go to the chess match that morning, it might be different.

Randall should have just sniffed to Sanjay "I found restaurant X is not as good as it used to be. I will get us into restaurant Y tomorrow. It's the new in place." Instead, he constantly starts pissing matches with Sanjay and then ends up agreeing to ridiculous deadlines. Sanjay seems to have no life outside of work, so Randall needs to change his strategy.

If Randall is the top performer at the workplace, he has a way to go before he gets fired. There is a dude who works there who lost the company tonnes of money and still got a bonus cheque. I think Randall is used to being the best in the room and it irks him when somebody out competes him. While his job is competitive, he is the one who appears to be the one that is upping the pressure.  Being second best won't get him fired. His hands are shaking, he needs to calm down before he has a mental break.

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Beth & Randall: I like the "I call marriage" timeout catchphrase but I think insisting he go to the chess tournament without first finding out why he's freaking was a mistake.  Randall is NOT all right.  And Beth knows it.  I think she needs to take him out for a long drive, sit in a park, and just let him explain everything.  She understands his stress issues and he's melting down.  Pushing him to the tournament was not a good idea without understanding his work stress.  Which is REAL.  And serious.  

 

I'm in the same place...I liked the "I Call Marriage" and I do think a spouse has the right to do so...but over a chess tournament, one that she admitted she didn't even want to attend?  I'm not saying she's out of line...but I think maybe she played the "I Call Marriage" for a less than worthy event.  And, yeah, I get that there was the William element, but I felt the whole thing was for William and Tess (that's the daughter's name, right?)--not for William and Randall.

[PRgal]

27 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I loved his shoes...I just can't stand his mouth hanging open all the time.  

I didn't mean to say his shoes were gross (just interesting since I didn't realize those shoes were available for adults), just FYI :)

[SlovakPrincess]

Is Kevin still in that play, or what?   I don't mind the Sophie plot, I guess, I just don't find it as interesting as Kevin trying to become a serious actor.

I would have to agree that Beth may have "called marriage" at the wrong time.  Tess didn't even tell them about the chess tournament until the last moment, and it was more about Tess making a nice memory with William than Randall.  On the other hand, Randall should have explained to Beth why he felt this was a true work emergency.   

If Kate does something dumb with Duke I will punch my TV.  

[spaceghostess]

11 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Apologies if this has already been pointed out, but correct, the train that Kevin and Sophie were on was a Metro North train. Although I was born in Brooklyn, I grew up in Westchester County, which borders the Bronx. My backyard was 18 miles from the Empire State Building. For 25+ years, my dad commuted daily into the city on those Metro North trains, as did I, later in life, when I moved to Connecticut and worked in Manhattan. Not sure why they decided to use those trains as a substitute for an actual NYC subway, I guess they are visually a bit more appealing and perhaps the interior layout was more conducive to how the two actors needed to move around. But even so, I assumed that scene was filmed on a set, so why not make it look like the real thing?

 

I also grew up in Westchester County and, as an adult, lived for many years one stop north of Wakefield. I spent 13 of my working years commuting from Mt. Vernon West station into Grand Central on the Harlem Line. With all due respect, that was most definitely not the interior of a MetroNorth train. MetroNorth commuter trains have upholstered seats, and have had for many decades (with updates from flip-over bench seats to the high-backed bucket seats they have today). The ones on the Harlem Line traditionally had/have dark blue upholstery. None of the lines (Harlem, Hudson, or New Haven) have hard plastic seats or mid-car "subway" poles as depicted in last night's episode. Having said my "train nerd" piece, I totally agree with you and Neurochick that trying to pass off whatever kind of train (maybe LA commuter rail) that was as NYC subway was ridiculous when there must be accurate "subway interior" sets that could have been used. The platforms and tunnels were wrong, too, but I could forgive that. 

There were so many other things that took me out of this episode, I can't even: 

1. Bullshit subway (see above).

2. Bullshit "chess tournament". This really grated, because you don't teach a child tournament-level (not even little-kid, novice-tournament-level) chess in a couple hours. You just don't. Also, I don't believe for an instant that any child of Randall and Beth's would be careless enough to sign up for chess or any other competitive activity and decide to try learning the entire game the night before.  These kids are smart, and it was demonstrated in an earlier episode that the older one is competitive, too--much like her dad. And you don't win a chess tournament after one night of Grandpa teaching you how to move the pieces, damn. I don't even play, but my ex did play competitively and started to teach our kids, so I know what's involved. Just lazy writing there.

3. Kevin and Sophie. I always give "I've known he/she was the one since we met at daycare"/Boy Meets World romances the side eye. Not denying it ever happens, but again, trying to sell a true love connection by having a Kevin remember that Sophie had a Punky Brewster backpack when they were nine is a lazy writers' shortcut to establishing "history". His remembering every little thing she was wearing on that fateful day in fourth grade is supposed to make us believe she'd second-guess her relationship with a "solid" guy who's fallen for the independent, twice-divorced woman with a solid career she is now? If one of my exes wanted to win me back, he'd have to bring more to the table than nostalgia. Also, as others have pointed out, S & K are boring. 

4. Why must Kate's relationship "choices" consist of a needy baby-man who makes everything all about himself and a faux straight talker who's actually a sleazy, negging PA? I didn't hate Toby as much as some do, and I thought his bringing her a care package was a sweet gesture. Then he had to go ruin it by being an ass in her drumming thing and having the nerve to lay guilt because she left him alone during his recovery. Couldn't he have expressed that concern before she left for camp? Don't come along and act like you really support her efforts, only to overstep and then try to make her feel bad about objecting to YOUR overstepping. To be fair to these badly drawn male characters, they suck because of the sucky way in which Kate is written. Someone in charge decided that Kate would find guys like this charming and fall for one or both of them for reasons. If the long-term goal were to show that low self esteem causes her to make bad choices, that's one thing--but I don't get the feeling that's where Kate's story is going. I think we're supposed to relate to why she'd be tempted by one or both of these bohunks, and I just . . . don't. (P.S. Toby's grandma's ring is fug. )

5. Randall's situation rang more true for me, as it often does. Sterling K. Brown is making more of his character than almost anyone else on this show is managing to do. I felt for what he was going through, being torn between work and home, and his denial about what's happening with William was believable in its harshness. I didn't even really think his boss was being an ass. In that situation, I might even appreciate having some of the pressure lifted (once I'd finished panicking). What came across to me was that his boss does value him, but also realizes he's going through some things at home, so he (the boss) is being pragmatic. (Side note: I'd normally be completely down with Beth's "I call marriage", but not for that bogus chess "tournament". I wish they could have had her call marriage for a better reason).

6. The flashbacks were the most bearable part of this episode for me. I got through an entire scene (best man speech) of not hating Miguel, only to be like, "dude, really?" when he talked about losing the will to bring coffee to his wife in the morning. That happens in marriage, but it doesn't have to be the death knell. I do get why that was in there, but it still made him seem kind of lame(er?). I was glad to hear Rebecca laying out how much she values Jack for Sam from True Blood, but I haven't seen next week's previews, so maybe I should reserve judgement.

I usually like--not love, but definitely like--this show, but I found this episode to be an irritating combination of cloying and half-assed. I wanted it to get off my lawn.

Edited February 9, 2017 by spaceghostess

[Tiger]

I dont care if half of PTV blocks me - - - I like Duke.  I hope Toby walks in on Duke & Kate doing all kinds of freaky shit, instantly has a heart attack and dies.  Sure, Duke may be an ass, but he is not an asshole, creepy, etc.  He also has wagger.  And most importantly, I think Adam & Chrissy have "it".

I love that we got backstory on and point of view from Beth; she is amazing.  

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I dont care if half of PTV blocks me - - - I like Duke.  I hope Toby walks in on Duke & Kate doing all kinds of freaky shit, instantly has a heart attack and dies.  Sure, Duke may be an ass, but he is not an asshole, creepy, etc.  He also has wagger.  And most importantly, I think Adam & Chrissy have "it".

I love that we got backstory on and point of view from Beth; she is amazing.  

He bragged to a stranger that one of the perks of his job was that he gets to take advantage of emotionally vulnerable women for me that's basically the textbook definition of creepy asshole. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, spaceghostess said:

he'd have to bring more to the table than nostalgia.

I was groaning aloud at the nostalgia.  How she eats, what she wore, how she bites her nails, the booth they sat in, the fries, her claustrophobia, her back acne, blah blah blah.  It was Pilgrim Jack levels all over again.  

Then Jack and the magical shower they boffed in!  Their amazing vows!  The shared reassurances that they are better than the Miguels!  The indignant claim by Jack that there is only ONE RIGHT WAY to love and that's find your soulmate, marry, then stay together til death regardless of your actual feelings for each other!  

I do hope they divorce now.  And I do think they could divorce and Rebecca could wear the moon necklace.  I still have all the gifted jewelry from my exes.   I wear it with fond memories or none, it's just jewelry.  I could see her divorcing and then pulling that thing back out after Jack died.  

I think Kate's going to hook up with Duke and I'm ok with that.  His point was that they're hedonists who say 'screw moderation' and maybe that's ok.  I don't think it was written well, but it's more interesting than Toby the Sex Clown.  They keep writing that everyone thinks they know Kate inside and out at first sight.  Toby, Olivia, now Duke.  

I laughed at Kevin setting up the suspenseful "will she or won't she" diner scene.  Who does that?  We're talking now but I'm going to tell you where I'll be at 8am and you show up if you like me.  And check the "yes" box on my little note if you like me, too.  What is that old movie with the Empire State Building meet-up?  How many tv shows and movies have ripped off that trope?  

The monologues were putting me to sleep.

Now that people commented on Kate's 'belly' caving in in some scenes, I'm thinking that she probably is padded and that's why she's so oddly shaped.  I have trouble believing that she lost 100 lbs. before American Horror Story but now looks like this, unpadded.  

[Tiger]

8 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

He bragged to a stranger that one of the perks of his job was that he gets to take advantage of emotionally vulnerable women for me that's basically the textbook definition of creepy asshole. 

It was said with a smirk.  He obviously wasnt being serious.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

It was said with a smirk.  He obviously wasnt being serious.

Creepy assholes smirk and given his other overly agressive moves on Kate did not read that he was joking with Toby who he had never met.

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, camom said:

According to this article, Metz was a size 12 when she started out in LA (in other words, normal size), then lost 50 pounds.  She obviously has not always been obese.

The math in that article is completely off. It says she was a size 12, then lost 50 pounds, then gained "more than 100", then lost 100. Assuming "more than 100" was less than 200 - because otherwise the article would have said 200 - she would now be back to her "size 12" weight, give or take a few pounds, which is obviously not the case.

[HeyThere83]

That article was so confusing to me

[Tiger]

13 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Creepy assholes smirk and given his other overly agressive moves on Kate did not read that he was joking with Toby who he had never met.

IMHO, Duke has not made one agressive, overly or otherwise, move on Kate.  Letting someone know that you want to date, fuck, etc them isn't a crime and frankly isn't even morally wrong.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

IMHO, Duke has not made one agressive, overly or otherwise, move on Kate.  Letting someone know that you want to date, fuck, etc them isn't a crime and frankly isn't even morally wrong.

No one stated that he did anything illegal but I guarantee you his behavior interacting with clients is a firable offense, he wasn't hitting on her in a bar he was hitting on a client in an overly familiar way, he is a walking lawsuit waiting to happen and the reason that non-fraternization policies exist in places where the clients are emotionally vulnerable.

[ClareWalks]

6 minutes ago, Tiger said:

IMHO, Duke has not made one agressive, overly or otherwise, move on Kate.  Letting someone know that you want to date, fuck, etc them isn't a crime and frankly isn't even morally wrong.

As a woman, I find it absolutely repulsive that there are people who think they have the right to "let me know they want to fuck me" whenever and however they want. It's that kind of attitude that makes men think it's okay to scream "nice tits" at a woman from a moving car. It IS morally wrong, actually. It makes women feel unsafe and vulnerable to attacks.

[chocolatine]

He didn't let her know that he *wants to* fuck her, he let her know that he *will* fuck her (cf. "this is happening"). Big difference.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

I dont care if half of PTV blocks me - - - I like Duke.  I hope Toby walks in on Duke & Kate doing all kinds of freaky shit, instantly has a heart attack and dies.  Sure, Duke may be an ass, but he is not an asshole, creepy, etc.  He also has wagger.  And most importantly, I think Adam & Chrissy have "it".

I love that we got backstory on and point of view from Beth; she is amazing.  

Hey, you do you.   I may not agree with particular preferences but any opinion, respectfully provided, is always interesting to me.  

ETA: Having said that, he's an employee...  so he's over the way over line with the added "uber-nope" of emotionally vulnerable people.  And either the show is tone deaf to that OR Kate is going to lay a smack down on him.  

Edited February 9, 2017 by SueB

[ShadowFacts]

15 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

He didn't let her know that he *wants to* fuck her, he let her know that he *will* fuck her (cf. "this is happening"). Big difference.

He also got right up to her and took her phone.  That to me is an aggressive move.  Probably not going to be arrested and prosecuted for it, but also probably not legally something you want to be doing. 

[Court]

We have a garage. We rarely exit out of it. I don't want to walk down the stairs to it. I'm lazy. Our cars aren't parked in there either. There's the project car on one side and the other side is kids bikes, toys, storage, etc.

Shut up, Miguel. The way the camera focused on him during the wedding made it look as if he was gazing at Rebecca. I waited for him to tell Jack he was in love with her when asked why they divorced. It really annoys me that his kids have never been mentioned.