S03.E13: Mad City: Smile Like You Mean It

[formerlyfreedom]

On the run from Gordon and Bullock, Dwight tries to revive Jerome and, in turn, activates his acolytes around Gotham City. Meanwhile, Selina's mom's intentions in Gotham are revealed, and the power play between Penguin and Nygma escalates as Barbara's plans are set in place.

 

[SoSueMe]

Wow, Camren Bicondova was acting the heck out of Selina tonight. 

Winter finale next week? WTH, how can that be?

Edited January 25, 2017 by SoSueMe

[Chaos Theory]

Plan B is always the better option.

I like snarky pissed off Leslie.  Can we keep her?  Hey wait now that she is no longer Jim's girlfriend doesn't that mean the kid napping  clause is void?  Or is it just the rescuing clause?

Barbara is still fun to watch.

Watching Penguin self destruct is also fun.

Poor Selina.  Great acting on everyone's part.

The Jerome/Fake Jerome story was great.  

Edited January 24, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Lantern7]

Nice. Minimum, Cameron Monaghan (that's his name, right?) has vaulted past Jared Leto. Staples are gross, but not as tacky as a "Damaged" tattoo.

Getting blown to shit in smaller chunks than Theo is the least Dwight deserved. Cutting off the messiah of madness's face? He's lucky "I am Jerome" caught on with the deranged. I would think a few of those people had a moment of clarity. Probably not, though.

"Lee, I-" "Die in multiple fires, Jim." Once again . . . League of Disgruntled Exes could work on this show.

Poor Oswald. Tabitha and Barbara own his ass. Only thing missing was Ed in a nearby broom closet, fist in mouth as he stifles the laughter.

And poor Selina. I mean, I probably would've done what Bruce did, but she was justified feeling betrayed. And it's not like Fish is coming back anytime soon to rehire her.

Wait . . . three weeks of episodes, and then a "winter break"? WTF?

[Pyralis]

Usually I'm fairly enured to the blood/violence.  The multiple people getting shot - no problem.  But Jerome stapling his own face back on completely wigged me out.

[SimoneS]

Oh Selina, I was right about your mother being after Bruce's money. I am so sorry. I understand why she was so angry, but loved how Bruce deflected her attack. Nice skills, Bruce. I love these two young actors. They are so good. They have promising futures.

I love having Cameron Monaghan back as Jerome. I hope he wrecks havoc on Gotham.

Ed making Penguin crazy is so entertaining. I hope Penguin ends up in Arkham.

[Spartan Girl]

I really hope the only reason why Jerome didn't put a bullet in Lee's skull because they're saving that for the winter finale. C'mon, writers, have the balls to do what the Smallville writers never could!

[Chaos Theory]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I really hope the only reason why Jerome didn't put a bullet in Lee's skull because they're saving that for the winter finale. C'mon, writers, have the balls to do what the Smallville writers never could!

I like pissed off diwnward spiraly Lee.  They can kill her when Jim saves her with his manliness and live.  Right now I think she is kinda fun.

[Danielg342]

Yawn.

OK, so things happened...many things. Lots of things. Too many things. The pacing was all over the place, with the episode zooming through its lines as if the studio really only had 40 minutes to finish everything.

I mean, come on guys...slow down so you can properly explain anything.

Not that I think there was much to explain. This was a filler episode anyway, with everything done just to move the story to the real payoff, and that's next week.

I will admit, Jerome- when he was actually there- was fun to watch, as he always is. Plus angry Lee is a joy to behold (from afar...I don't think she'd let you actually hold her).

Barbara too had her moments tormenting Oswald, as Robin Lord Taylor is really nailing his descent. I fear it'll all go for naught, though, since we know Nygma ain't dying.

...and Camren Bicondova went to another level with her acting tonight. I mean...wow. Too bad her storyline was predictable.

Still, none of it stuck, as it was just mindless racing in a failed attempt to show urgency. Again, it's as if the writers forgot about things like characterization and nuance, deciding it's just better to contrive things so you can set up this "really cool scene" or arc. Such lazy, uninspired storytelling.

The Bullock Meter- 5

Aside from a few zingers, Donal Logue's trademark snarl and the scene in the interrogation room where he followed up Jim's punches on the crooked cop, Harvey was just there, reciting his lines in that angry tone that makes everything think Bullock is displaying urgency. Don't get me wrong, I still think Logue sold it well tonight, but it felt forced tonight as opposed to natural.

Episode Grade: D-. There were some good moments that saved this from being a real clunker, but the uninspired writing really let the whole episode down.

[Lantern7]

Almost forgot . . . "Disco Vampire." Points to Barbara for that.

[Chaos Theory]

Hey wait one more thing.  Is next week Gotham's version of the Purge?  Because I love the movies.   I could just see some of the morally grey characters.......well Lee might try something something on Jim.     

[jay741982]

What's worse about only having 3 episodes before another break is Gotham won't be back until APRIL 24th 

[Philbert]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

 

I love having Cameron Monaghan back as Jerome. I hope he wrecks havoc on Gotham.

 

Considering that he just blew up a building and knocked out most of the power in Gotham, I'd say he was off to a good start. :)

[Lantern7]

22 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

What's worse about only having 3 episodes before another break is Gotham won't be back until APRIL 24th 

WHAT?!? What the hell is Fox running to justify us dangling for so long?

[immortalfrieza]

I will probably get hate for this, but Gotham has cemented it's version of Edward Nygma as the best version for the forseeable future. All the other versions of Nygma are so obsessed with riddles that it quickly tanks any schemes they try to pull off before they ever really get started, but not this version. This Nygma is a consummate schemer that, while he still makes riddles now and then, doesn't let them get in the way of his plans (at least after Kringle) which is how he SHOULD be portrayed, not as the harmless joke villain which the Riddler normally is. How he uses the love Oswald has for him, his history, and his paranoia to drive Oswald, normally a very competent schemer himself, into such a mess that he loses his brain in the process is a sight to behold. Writers everywhere take note: THAT is how you make a smart character into an idiot to progress a plot, by having the other characters believably play on their emotions to the point they override their judgement and/or having the opposition be so much smarter that they just seem stupid in comparison.

Speaking of jokes, Jerome is back, and he continues to show that he's a pretty good Joker expy. In fact, I noticed that his voice in particular sounded so much like Heath Ledger's I honestly couldn't tell the difference.

Edited January 24, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[Sakura12]

If Jerome isn't the Joker I don't think they should introduce him on this show.  Cameron Monaghan is doing a better Joker then Jared Leto. The villains have been pretty meh this season, it took Jerome to really liven things up. 

Jim's girlfriends really get a lot better after he screws them over. Lee was great tonight, like Barbara before her. I loved her scene with Jerome. I think it was the best scene of the episode. 

Selina's storyline was predictable but I suppose they needed something to keep Baby Bat and Baby Cat in an on and off relationship. I had hoped that guy would've asked Selina if she ever killed anyone before, just so Selina can say yes. I'm also guessing Selina's going to go "bad" with lights being out. 

[Miss Dee]

You know, I could get behind the idea of "The Joker" being a faceless sea of people that all get bitten with the same craziness...just as one gets put down, another pops up, over and over, like intelligent zombies. And only one Batman to stop them all....

You could go through several flavors of the Joker that way too... channel everyone from Caesar Romero to Mark Hamill to Jack Nicholson to Heath Ledger.

I always thought Barbera would become the origin of Harley Quinn, but I think I could accept Lee as an alternative take on the character. Her "bored now" recapping of all Jerome had missed since early Season 2 and his reactions to it was maybe one of the funniest things I've seen yet on this show.

Bruce and Selina were fantastic. Catching her leg like that would have been really hot if the actors were older. I'm sure the younger crowd will think so anyway!

[Kathemy]

Nobody can tell me that wasn't an amazing episode.

[immortalfrieza]

You know, I just realized something. Episodes like this are a nice callback to Penguin's Umbrella or more specifically, one of Oswald's lines in it.

Quote

Oswald: "What drives you? What is your passion? When you know what a man loves, you know what can kill him..."

Episodes like this show just how right he was, and just how effective it is even against a man who knows just how well it works himself. When Theo Galavan kidnapped Oswald's mother it left him in hysterics for multiple episodes and dropped his IQ by a few dozen points as he made half baked plans to get her back. Her death then leaves him so broken it almost ends his criminal career until Ed snaps him out of it by pointing out that very thing.

Quote

Nygma: "A man with nothing that he loves is a man that cannot be bargained, a man that cannot be betrayed, a man who answers to NO ONE but himself.

The murder of Oswald's father and discovering his abusive stepfamily was responsible sends him back into psychopathy instead of remaining more or less if creepily sane. Falling in love with Ed makes him so possessive of him that he murders Ed's girlfriend which turns Ed against him once he finds out. Ed uses Oswald's love for his father and his supposed "ghost" haunting him to drive Oswald into killing his deputy director and have a meltdown on national TV. And here, Ed uses Oswald's attachment to him and his paranoia to make him consider war against his lieutenants, then uses himself as a hostage to push Oswald into rushing into an obvious trap half cocked and making him so hysterical he can barely think straight. It's actually pretty brilliant of the writers when one thinks about it, though I doubt the writers actually PLANNED for all this to tie together to a single speech in season 1.

Edited January 24, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[Kathemy]

4 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

You know, I just realized something. Episodes like this are a nice callback to Penguin's Umbrella or more specifically, one of Oswald's lines in it.

This is a constant theme throughout the show.

Also.

Look at the promo for the season finale. Look in the mirrors. I repeat, look in the mirrors. No, I'm not talking about the location. Look closely.

I'm hysterical.

[Dame sans merci]

7 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Almost forgot . . . "Disco Vampire." Points to Barbara for that.

That was glorious. I also loved 'I had a good job at the post office!'

This episode has left me with such appreciation for Lee. Jabbing people in the neck with truth serum. Giving Jim a verbal dressing-down. Being entirely unimpressed by Jerome.  God, she was great. Can we keep mean Lee? 

[jay741982]

8 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

WHAT?!? What the hell is Fox running to justify us dangling for so long?

24: Legacy starts it's regular time slot after the Super bowl starting Monday Febuary 6th. 

[darkestboy]

I really liked this one.

Jerome's return was handled pretty well. His conversation with Leslie was one of my favourite moments. The deadpan snarkiness with those two was a delight to watch.

Dwight, you should never meet your heroes and you should never, ever wear their faces. Lesson learned here.

The more grouchy Leslie can be with Gordon, the better to be honest.

Babs toying with Oswald along with Nygma and Tabitha's own scheming was another highlight for this episode. Disco vampire though.

Selina's plot took the most predictable of twists but it was still pretty enjoyable to watch, even if her and Bruce are at odds again, 8/10

[Chaos Theory]

Babs plans to kill everyone doesn't she?

Not that I am complaining mind you.  It's a good plan.  Kill everyone.  Take over Gotham.

[Winter Rose]

Camren Bicondova was such a standout tonight. I liked the hints of what we'd see in a future Batman/Catwoman conflict.

Maybe it's just me but Jerome with the staples looks like the Chucky doll. I don't mind them being vague about whether Jerome will truly become the Joker but I think if it's not him then they shouldn't cast the role. Cameron Monaghan is too good, and I thought that even without Jared Leto setting the bar so low with his own Joker.

I'm really enjoying Penguin's downward spiral. And nice to see Barbara and Tabitha with their own plan up their sleeves.

[jay741982]

I love Babs. I love Jerome. Writers just come out and officially make Jerome The Joker. Cameron is killing it. Crazy Babs and Jerome were two standouts last season for me 

[Snookums]

Quote

  But Jerome stapling his own face back on completely wigged me out.

What wigged me out was how well said face worked, considering none of the muscles were still attached and the infection rate should have killed him a second time. But it's Gotham! Motto: Why The Fuck Not?

I am convinced there are two writing teams on this show and one loved Lee and one hates her. Can anyone reconcile last week's Cliff Notes Emotional Wreck Lee with this BAMF? Her snark off with Jerome was gold. "You know what? Go on, enjoy it." Keep writing this Lee! 

Jim Gordon was pretty middle of the road dummy this week, since nothing directly involved LEEEEEEEEEEEE and his ever-soggy passion for her. He even got some good digs in at Dwight on the phone! And the Gotham PD took back the TV station! Not that it mattered since apparently every third person who wasn't infected by the Alice Virus is sitting on an Inner Jerome or whatever the hell. 

Babs and Tabs having fun gunning down everybody and proving Carmine's point; that the underworld in Gotham needs a strong leadership. Multiple crazies snarling over which ridiculous plan is going to work best just leaves everybody with their own personal option B and pile of bodies. (Where's Butch, by the by?) 

Is that seriously it for Maria? I'm still holding out hope this is a blind for the actual owl heist (which is still sitting on that end table, I presume. I can't even remember who wants it anymore. And wasn't Carmine working for the Court of Owls? Gah. ) But it was heartbreaking enough, and Selena really brought it with her realization that she can never be hard or tough or streetwise enough to not fall for a con, if it's the right con. And Bruce is finally not letting her walk all over him, even as he shows a distressing tendency towards "I know what's best for you" that would set any woman's teeth on edge, no matter how well meant. 

[mtlchick]

Babs being a psycho whackjob is the best 180 the show could have done.  But the big wigs at Fox are putting WAY too much stock on how loyal the audience is.  It was already on break for close to 2 months, and now it's going away for another 2.5?  

Next week has to be worth the second hiatus. 

Quote

What wigged me out was how well said face worked, considering none of the muscles were still attached and the infection rate should have killed him a second time. But it's Gotham! Motto: Why The Fuck Not?

Clearly none of the writers have watched Face/Off.

Edited January 24, 2017 by mtlchick

[Kathemy]

34 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Next week has to be worth the second hiatus. 

I believe it will be.

[paigow]

I am Negan! You are Negan! We Are Negan!  The League of Shadows / Assassins will not try to destroy Gotham... The Saviours are coming....

Edited January 25, 2017 by paigow

[HoodlumSheep]

Great episode!

• I love Lucius! I always love his scenes.
• Jerome was amazing as always
• Babs&Tabs (and Ed) playing Penguin like a fiddle! Love it! Also, it looks like Penguin's head minion is catching on to their shenanigans because things aren't adding up.
• I kinda liked angry Lee, maybe because they had her actually doing stuff. Kinda.
• I especially liked the ending when the Gotham city lights all shutdown

My only (very tiny) complaint:

They're continuing the tedious cycle of BatCat getting along for a couple episodes, only for Selina to get angry at Bruce, storm away, and not be friend/talk to each other for a couple episodes until they get along again. Same old, same old. It bores me. Bruce is getting good at combat thought, and Camren's (is that how you spell it?) acting was on point. Makes me wonder if the show will ever shift away from their interactions when it gets nearer to Bruce transforming into Batman and his playboy persona.

[Kathemy]

I don't think it's a tedious cycle at all. I'll explain in my review, when it's finished.

And yeah it's Camren. It's really confusing with people calling Camren Cameron :D Cameron is Cameron Monaghan!!!

Edited January 25, 2017 by Kathemy

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, HoodlumSheep said:

I love Lucius! I always love his scenes.

"And I'll... stay here.  Yeah, that sounds good."

[Snookums]

Quote

I love Lucius! I always love his scenes

Lucius "Lucious" Fox is the best. The only reasonable, sane voice on this show.

[The Wild Sow]

On 1/23/2017 at 9:10 PM, Pyralis said:

Usually I'm fairly enured to the blood/violence.  The multiple people getting shot - no problem.  But Jerome stapling his own face back on completely wigged me out.

His going around without  a face wigged me out.  Shudder!

[Kathemy]

Done.

<Doux Reviews> <Smile Like You Mean It>

[thuganomics85]

Jerome is back!  With his face stapled up that it looks like he's creepily smiling.  Yep, I doubt they'll ever say it, but he's totally this universe's Joker.  Either that or will inspire the actual Joker.  Love how he is shaking things up.  Taking out the power in Gotham is going to be so much fun!

Oswald continues to spiral and has started killing members of his crew because he thinks they kidnapped Nygma.  Barbara playing him was great. But I think she and Tabitha might have bitten off more then they can chew, if there plan really is to take out Nygma after Oswald.  I have to think Nygma already has a "Plan B" of his own, and is prepped for a possible backstabbing.  Plus, Nygma (or Oswald) isn't going anywhere because comics.

Pissed Off Lee might be the best Lee.  Her annoyed, unafraid reactions to Jerome were hilarious.  As was just stabbing that guy with the syringe, while Bullock and Jim were wailing on him.

Selina's mom was actually pulling a con, and now Selina is pissed at her and Bruce, because she figured out that Bruce figured it out too, but gave her the money anyway.  And then they have a brief little sparing scene.  It's like those two are destined to fight and flirt with each other!

Almost felt bad for doomed, uncharismatic, understudy Dwight.  Almost.

Are they ever going to check in on Ivy, again?

Lucius had some good lines in this one.

Next week is already the fall finale, I see.  You're scheduling is so weird, FOX.

Edited January 25, 2017 by thuganomics85

[SoSueMe]

On 1/23/2017 at 10:19 PM, jay741982 said:

What's worse about only having 3 episodes before another break is Gotham won't be back until APRIL 24th 

Really? Actually that makes me happy, I was bracing myself to wait until fall.

[Kathemy]

8 episodes starting Apr 24th.

[Chaos Theory]

I do agree that with a couple people who pointed out that this is the conflicted between Bruce and Selina that follows them forever.  Bruce lies to Selina even when he doesn't have to and Selina feels lied to and alone even when Bruce is trying to protect her.  

One thing I do disagree about though is that there wasn't a weak story in this episode.  I thought all three stories were done extremely well and were all A plots.  

[Kathemy]

53 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I do agree that with a couple people who pointed out that this is the conflicted between Bruce and Selina that follows them forever.  Bruce lies to Selina even when he doesn't have to and Selina feels lied to and alone even when Bruce is trying to protect her.  

One thing I do disagree about though is that there wasn't a weak story in this episode.  I thought all three stories were done extremely well and were all A plots.  

I agree. I can't understand people who thought this was subpar. They seem to be in an extreme minority.

As I pointed out in my review, I thought the Penguin plot was the least engaging but that's just because the two others were so great - in a lesser episode, that would've worked fine as the highlight.

And the scene with Selina trying and failing to punch the lights out of Bruce... chills. As much as they love each other Selina's always been, "Bruce's a lil sissy, I can take him", while Bruce has been "well, compared to me she's a dimwit". Now they both know none of that is true.

[Chaos Theory]

25 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

I agree. I can't understand people who thought this was subpar. They seem to be in an extreme minority.

As I pointed out in my review, I thought the Penguin plot was the least engaging but that's just because the two others were so great - in a lesser episode, that would've worked fine as the highlight.

And the scene with Selina trying and failing to punch the lights out of Bruce... chills. As much as they love each other Selina's always been, "Bruce's a lil sissy, I can take him", while Bruce has been "well, compared to me she's a dimwit". Now they both know none of that is true.

Another thing That adds to the Bruce/Selina conflict is that Bruce would give every penny he has to see his parents again and learn the truth of their murder even if the truth was they ran away to get away from him.  He would hand them every dime with a smile and wish them well just to see them alive again.   

That is a part of why he did what he did for Selina.  He knows what it is like be without a mother and he wanted to give her mother a chance to do right even though he knew she never would. 

[Dobian]

Well you could see that one coming from a mile away.  You just don't take Joker's face and expect to live.

The reveal of Nygma's plan was great.

[Traveller519]

Heh, that was fun. If the episode was primarily framed around Lee and Jerome recapping the whole series, that would have been enough gold. Morena is so good when she's actually given stuff to do and play with her character. When she's sidelined (her whole run on Homeland, most of the Falcone marriage here) she fades really quickly.

It was also wonderful to see a competent Gordon again! The Bluff in the precinct, the figuring out locations and mobilizing on them, the stealth entry into the TV station. Well played, sir!

[Teitr Styrr]

I think Bruce will learn fairly quick-like to just be straight with Selina, whether it's what he deems to be good or bad news. The girl don't like it soft. Anyhow, that was my favorite part of the episode, which is a surprise with Jerome being back. Not that I didn't like Jerome, because I really really did. His conversation with Leslie had to be my second favorite part. He really has the chaotic talking down better than I think just about any Joker, other than in print. He goes from shoving a pistol in her face, to asking (possibly sincerely) about her and Jim, cough like Gollum a sec, and asks about the weather. I loved it.

However, Selina and Bruce, I guess BatCat (from now on CatBat for me) was easily my favorite part. That's probably because I expect them to see the world differently because I've been trained that way by the comics. I have also been trained to know they be in love, forever and ever amen.  I'm hoping the show can subvert that a little. Not the love part, I'm a hopeless romantic. But, yeah, the keeping them apart part. Bruce seems like an intelligent, thoughtful and sensible young man, and I'm hoping he can learn from his mistakes with Selina. Their scenes tonight felt real to me. Her anger and his being stuck in what he saw as a hard spot. I mean he wasn't, all he needed to do was be straight with her, and now he knows.  Learn from your mistakes Master Bruce.

[Snookums]

Indeed. The problem with Bruce in dealing with Selena is that he's never had to face what his parents did in the way she's had to.

Bruce wants to give Selena the "gift" of her mother at least in part because, as he says, he'd give anything to have his own parents back. They're dead, and nothing he can say or do will ever change the night he saw them gunned down in front of him. To even attempt to rectify the pain that her mother's desertion has caused Selena--and it has molded and twisted her her entire life--is the closest he can ever come to mending the great wrongs that have stamped and crushed both their lives into such sad, twisted shape. 

However. Bruce, no matter how sincere and well meaning, is NOT Selena. Not only is her life different from his in the obvious ways, he's not acknowledging that while his parents' deaths were a horrific trauma and a tragedy, he's never going to have to face the two people he thought he knew--his parents--after finding out so many terrible, dark things about them. Running hand in glove with organized crime, Indian Hill, the family legacy of betrayal that sent a crazed Theo Galavan baying after him. No matter what he has to confront, their memory can stay untouched. Not like facing off with your real, living parent and realizing they were only coming back into your life to use you, lie to you, once again. 

Selena will never have the comfort of fantasy or "what if" again. Bruce, no matter what he discovers next, will never have to face his parents in a cheap hotel and see all the things they were lying about, keeping from him, entangling him in without his knowledge or permission. That's the divide between them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Everyone was awesome this week (acting-wise, not necessarily character/decision-wise).

Poor Selina. I knew in the previous episode that her mom was just going to end up playing her. I guess at least now she knows with 100% certainty that her mom is a world class dick and to run like the wind if she ever sees her again. For a moment, I thought that Bruce refusing to fight back when Selina kept hitting him would result in him giving her a much needed hug before she fled.

I always enjoy seeing Ivana Milicevic. She always ends up guest starring on shows that I love (Buffy, Psych, Pushing Daisies, Ugly Betty, Love Monkey, Seinfeld, Felicity, etc). Great casting too because I could see a resemblance between Ivana and Camren. And since people keep bringing up Jared Leto as the Joker, fun fact: Ivana's brother Tomo is in Jared's band.

Heh, I love Barbara manipulating Penguin. I like her so much more now than I did in S1.

I also like Lee so much better now. When she was answering Jerome's questions in a bored, slightly peeved tone, I thought man, if only she'd been like this before Jim killed Mario!

Edited January 26, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Chaos Theory]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

Heh, I love Barbara manipulating Penguin. I like her so much more now than I did in S1.

I also like Lee so much better now. When she was answering Jerome's questions in a bored, slightly peeved tone, I thought man, if only she'd been like this before Jim killed Mario!

Ya know we should probably be greatful that Jim is such a crappy boyfriend.  Babs got interesting when she got kidnapped after Jim was through with her and now Lee is all dark and broody and "I don't have time for this shit" now that Jim has shot her husband.

I see a pattern.  

[Camera One]

I had very little interest in any of the storylines and the only scene I liked was Bruce and Selina's "fight" sequence, though the mom was a snore.  Dwight didn't have enough history on the show to have any actual presence.  I watch this show in spite of the violence so it's not giving me enough to hang onto.  The show has become a bunch of super violent wackjobs killing people and not much more.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Camera One

[paigow]

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

 The show has become a bunch of super violent wackjobs killing people and not much more.

Is that a medical term, Doctor?