S02.E03: En Garde Avant Garde

[7-Zark-7]

At the end I was sulking "Those bastards got rid of my dream nephew!" Then Tim Gunn came in with the save and I thought "Really? This early? For my dream nephew? He'll probably go out next week."

[Sesquipedalia]

11 hours ago, auntlada said:

I thought the winning outfit looked costumey, as I think most if not all avant garde stuff looks costumey. But I thought the red and black outfit with thw heart looked like a costume I could find at a rental shop or backstage at a community theater.

Finally, I feel like I understand what "costumey" means! At least when it comes to an avant garde challenge. I was so confused when one judge called the bleeding heart look costumey and the next one said the designers should have taken it farther. Whaaa? But Hannah's comment later--that it was like something she could find on a rack at a costume shop--make me see what she meant. It's the "at a rental shop or backstage at a community theater" aspect of it, not the fact that you couldn't wear it in real life.

 

11 hours ago, auntlada said:

if they had done all the internal organs instead of just the heart, I might have found that interesting. Sort of a map to the fencers for where to stab.

That was my thought, too. It would have been cooler with more organs. Even though heart was realistic looking, having just the heart made it seem like it had something to do with love.

I loved the concept of fencing as inspiration. I wish that it hadn't been a team challenge just so I could have seen twice as many looks from the designers. I feel like Hawaa (or someone) could have done something truly amazing with the white/ red blood idea. It's too bad it got wasted on a losing look.

[Canada]

Wow, Hawwaa turned out to be a negative little snotbag, didn't she?  She was eye-rolling and complaining from the start.  Hope she goes soon.  I can't tolerate the attitude and the stupid eyebrows.

I feel like Molly is Erin Jr, with the use of "like" every other word.

[Fake Jan Brady]

19 hours ago, DEL901 said:

As much as I like A'kai, I think he's just too young for the competition.  He needs a couple of years seasoning.  Some 13 YOs might be okay, but he has to work on construction skills and speed.

Hard to believe he's the same age as Maya was last year.

[GreyBunny]

On 1/5/2017 at 8:06 PM, vibeology said:

That coat is maybe my favourite garment ever on any Project Runway. The sleeve detail, the way the back looked as amazing as the front, the beautiful wide legged pants. Damn. It's art. Blown away.

I loved it too.  The best thing is they used wide-legged pants and balanced proportions, if they had made leggings it would have looked silly.  

I have to admit, it reminded me of the costumes from this:
 

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, Canada said:

Wow, Hawwaa turned out to be a negative little snotbag, didn't she?  She was eye-rolling and complaining from the start.  Hope she goes soon.  I can't tolerate the attitude and the stupid eyebrows.

The attitude is what bothers me about her. I actually thought she had some valid points in this episode (I didn't understand why he was practicing on the muslin skirt and he WAS taking a long time) but I just couldn't stomach the condescension. I still get the feeling that she's someone, like Erin on the adult version, who wants to portray herself as artsy and quirky, but it's really just an act. 

[Raynedon]

19 hours ago, TexasGal said:

On 1/6/2017 at 2:02 AM, Phebemarie said:

There was another side-eye moment from Christian when Tim Gunn commented that this was probably the best avant-garde challenge in Project Runway history.  

Christian and Chris March's winning avant-garde challenge dress.

I saw that too, and was hoping they'd give us a glimpse of that (^^^^^) dress, but of course they didn't.  So thanks phebemarie!

I yearn for designers like Chris and Christian to be on with each new PR. I miss the awesome, creative, well constructed designs of the first few seasons SO much, but instead we get drab, unimaginative, streetwear instead. sighhhh
As for the Avante Garde challenge - heck, not even the adults on the past few seasons of regular PR, knew what it meant so I don't fault the kids for not knowing.  

The judges were right  in choosing Akai to go home; his skirt was horribly constructed and I didn't see an ounce of imagination in it.  I think he'll be gone soon anyway.  I agree with one of the contestants about it being too early for the TGS to be used, but oh, well.  

Edited January 7, 2017 by rayndon

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, cousin oliver said:

Hard to believe he's the same age as Maya was last year.

Its harder to believe that the rest of them are older than Maya!

4 hours ago, mamadrama said:

The attitude is what bothers me about her. I actually thought she had some valid points in this episode (I didn't understand why he was practicing on the muslin skirt and he WAS taking a long time) but I just couldn't stomach the condescension.

This!

[NoirDetective]

Tim clearly has some kind of bullying/outcast syndrome, judging by his saves (and his late in life love of finding power through a phallic object), but keeping that kid in is not doing anybody any good. I agree with whoever upthread said they now have to string him along for a while no matter how he does to not make Tim look wrong/give some redemption arc. It just means weeks of him being torn apart or lied to by these integrity-free judges.

Hawaa did better in that situation than most of the histrionic adults on this show do, and A'kai did seem to spend a lot of time bullshitting around in his own little world, so I can't blame her at all, but this clearly has already sunk her, long-term. I really don't like watching children and being like, "God, I really don't Iike him and hope he leaves," yet here I am! Thanks, show. 

Asian girl Chelsea seems too rigid in her thinking for me, like, "To create fashion I read that I do X and then Y, if A then Z..." Her parents still probably hope for medical school, is my gist. I just don't see much of an artist in her yet. 

Didnt think much of Tieler's stiff plant box last week, but I did like the coat this time. Not sure he can do an actual silhouette that isn't a geometric shape, though. I, personally, could also use less of his, "I have two moms and why can't the stupid world see women are so powerful and awesome and great?!" schtick. It makes me sad to see someone so young seemingly so neutered by Jezebel-type thinking, but to each his own, I suppose, and I'm not the one trying to sell them clothes. 

Chris and Rene are clearly also-ran boot fodder, as is the Morman girl. 

But obviously the worst designer on this or any show is Purple Pig Kelly Osborne (I'm not interesting, but my hair color is sort of!). Getting advice from her is truly ridiculous, as unless she's teaching nepotism, her witless commentary and crocodile tears on how to achieve life success is as relevant as a dial phone. She reminds me of the Sasha Baron Cohen "Bruno" sketch where he traps fashion people into revealing how they'll say absolute anything and change opinions from "She looks gorgeous!" to "She looks like complete shit!" on a dimension. I don't believe she has any thoughts that aren't handed to her on a 3x5 card that someone else has to read to her.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 1/5/2017 at 9:34 PM, mauras said:

I hope people don't see Hawwaa as the villain in this episode, because she wasn't wrong, even if she could have been a little gentler about expressing her frustration. A'kai does take way too long on the skirt, he did have construction issues (as did Hawwaa, to be fair), and he didn't really communicate. He seems like a very sweet and sensitive kid, but he also seems kind of out of his depth. I knew as soon as he had his talk with Tim that he'd be sent home and that Tim would use his save, but I agree with the designers that it's way too early to save anyone.

But it happens every team challenge on PR.  Somebody (Person A) who thinks their skill is better than it is is paired with someone for whatever arbitrary reason they don't 'respect' (Person B).  Person A immediately becomes angry, defensive, scared, and micromanages the hell out of Person B.  Person B is confused, sad, becomes way more insecure than before, and screws up.  Person A only becomes more convinced of the bias she already held.  Often a recipe for disaster.

The challenge was interesting because we've seen it on 15 seasons of Adult PR and now it was on Juniors in the exact same fashion.  Pretty funny.

Different people could handle a mishmash pairing in a better way and collaborate, and bring out the best in each other, which is the supposed lesson this show tries to push.  That scenario often happens too.

The best partnerships don't always bring out the best designs and vice versa, but sometimes they do.  

Quote

I don't blame Hawaa - she is young and assertive.

I've only read one book on how to be assertive, but that's not what I understand assertive to be.

On 1/5/2017 at 10:03 PM, DHDancer said:

I was quite angry (before it turned to disillusionment) hearing A'kai talking about  "throwing under the bus".  Maybe I'm too old-fashioned but kids should be kids IMO: even KNOWING the term at that age is just so wrong on many levels. And count me in with those who think A'kai is still not long for this competition: he just doesn't have the skills.

Part and parcel with being on a reality show.  I don't think children of this age should be on one.  Knowing the term just means they have access to television and reality shows at that age, and that part I'm fine with.

Quote

Hard to believe he's the same age as Maya was last year.

Well females mature a lot faster than males, yes?

On 1/6/2017 at 6:23 AM, candall said:

Ha, I guess I've confirmed that Junior versions really aren't for me.

I'm with you; I only enjoy this version about 30% as much I do of the original, but I have extremely strong feelings on young people being on television/movies.  I'll watch it, but I'm just waiting for All Stars or something.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[carrps]

Ugh, I felt A'kai was being very manipulative. Getting Tim alone to complain, but NO don't get Hawaa's opinion. Yeah, she was a little snotty, but I've seen zero skills from A'kai, and I felt he was being rewarded for being a bitchy tattle tale. His poor widdle me act frustrates.

[Mabinogia]

Finally watched and personally, I would have been happy to see both of them go. I see nothing special in either Hawaa or A'kai and they are both weak compared to some of the others. Plus, It is painful to watch A'kai because he is so young and seems quite lost sometimes and it is painful to watch Hawaa because of her incredibly questionable style choices. I can not look at people with those stupid bull rings in their nose. It grosses me out and then you combine that with the other piercing and whatever that is going on with her eyebrows and I really just can't look at her.

That winning coat, though, was AMAZING. Far better than most of the adult offerings over the years. I liked the black asparagus because it was different and interesting. I liked the coat on the heart outfit, but I am naturally drawn to long, flowing dusters. I didn't like the goth dress as much as I wanted to, but it was good. I 100% agreed with the top and bottom look, which is rare for me.

I'm glad the TGS is over and done with. I don't care for it at all.

Also, Tim is making me want to learn fencing. What a cool hobby.

I'm warming to most of them. But the blonde who often wears that black hat, I can't look at her and not think Mini Erin. It's the bad dye job and twee accessory choices. I think, so far, this one, is it Molly? (I'm still learning their names but I think that's it) is more talented and way less aggravating.

[rose711]

I do not understand why Ms Grey Gardens from Minnesota dresses that way.  I know she is not Muslim /head cover.

Sorry was this relevant to the episode? It seems like it comes up every week with someone commenting about her headscarf or religion. Did I miss her mentioning her religion or how that affected her designs somewhere?

[rose711]

Ugh, I felt A'kai was being very manipulative. Getting Tim alone to complain, but NO don't get Hawaa's opinion. Yeah, she was a little snotty, but I've seen zero skills from A'kai, and I felt he was being rewarded for being a bitchy tattle tale. His poor widdle me act frustrates.

I feel that Tim knows what's going on in the work room. He's been doing this so long he probably doesn't have to even go in! Also of course the producers will be informing Tim as well. Asking Tim for advice and encouragement is not being a tattle tale, for all we know someone in production suggested it. I doubt that many on camera interactions with Tim are truly spontaneous.

[Ms Blue Jay]

33 minutes ago, rose711 said:

Sorry was this relevant to the episode? It seems like it comes up every week with someone commenting about her headscarf or religion. Did I miss her mentioning her religion or how that affected her designs somewhere?

It's a fashion show about teenage artists.  And yet some viewers have a problem with the personal style of the designers.  It's interesting, isn't it.  These kids don't even dress that weird.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[rose711]

  37 minutes ago, rose711 said:

Sorry was this relevant to the episode? It seems like it comes up every week with someone commenting about her headscarf or religion. Did I miss her mentioning her religion or how that affected her designs somewhere?

It's a fashion show about teenage artists.  And yet some viewers have a problem with the personal style of the designers.  It's interesting, isn't it.  These kids don't even dress that weird.

It's not just her personal style; it's questioning her religion which I haven't heard her mention. That's why I was asking if I maybe missed it being discussed in the episode. I don't pay close attention sometimes.

[ichbin]

10 hours ago, NoirDetective said:

Tim clearly has some kind of bullying/outcast syndrome, judging by his saves (and his late in life love of finding power through a phallic object), but keeping that kid in is not doing anybody any good. I agree with whoever upthread said they now have to string him along for a while no matter how he does to not make Tim look wrong/give some redemption arc. It just means weeks of him being torn apart or lied to by these integrity-free judges.

In my opinion this is the result of Under the Gunn.  As I recall a lot of viewers who had been Tim fans were unhappy with the way they felt one of the contestants in particular appeared to have been bullied by others on the show.  Tim disagreed with the perception but it does seem like he goes out of his way to address anything with the slightest hint of bullying behavior since then.    

[hisbunkie]

1 hour ago, rose711 said:

Sorry was this relevant to the episode? It seems like it comes up every week with someone commenting about her headscarf or religion. Did I miss her mentioning her religion or how that affected her designs somewhere?

It does to me because it is not her religion.  If she were wearing a head cover because of her religious beliefs it would be of no interest to me. She has commented on it not being her religion.

This is a show about style and design. The head covers and shoulder covers are not very stylish in my opinion. 

[nb360]

20 minutes ago, hisbunkie said:

It does to me because it is not her religion.  If she were wearing a head cover because of her religious beliefs it would be of no interest to me. She has commented on it not being her religion.

I commented on this earlier and my post was removed. I'm curious to see if anyone's post will be removed this time around.

It's no one's business what her religioin is and why she wears hijabs.

[hisbunkie]

2 minutes ago, nb360 said:

I commented on this earlier and my post was removed. I'm curious to see if anyone's post will be removed this time around.

It's no one's business what her religioin is and why she wears hijabs.

But hold on!  On the introduction episode I heard her say she is not a Muslim, although she is asked often because she likes to wear head covers.  I have not seen her wear a hijab.

So, my question is why is this becoming an issue?

 It appears to me as though this young woman likes to make a fashion statement which I commented on.  I do not particularly like her fashion esthetic, it is very Grey Gardens!   Are we all ok?

[NoirDetective]

Agree.

We've heard the Morman girl explain her POV in designing a different way because of her faith. This is the same as that to me, in explaining what is not Hawaa's POV. And at some point it gets a little bizarre not to address the elephant/clear implication her manner of dress/something on the screen delivers. 

If one kid was in a wheelchair or one kid was obviously a Satanist or something, that would have to addresssed for the viewer in some way. 

Wouldnt most people ask/wonder this about Hawaa at first meeting? And doesn't she know this? I'm not sure there's any racist/discriminatory undercurrent to any of that. 

[formerlyfreedom]

It's time to drop the back and forth on the head scarf/religion issue. It's not related to the episode and it's derailing the conversation. Discuss the episode please.

[roctavia]

I wonder if they are trying to sort of phase out the Tim Gunn save... or at least get rid of the perception that it's an automatic in for the finale. I'm glad he used it early because I don't think it should exist at all, so by using it now it's just out of the equation.

It also means the designers can't just skate by on their quirkiness hoping that they are odd enough for Tim to save when the time comes. They need to be putting forward the best designs they can each challenge, that's the whole point.

But I hate the Tim Gunn save in general, at least as a thing that has to be used each season. It would be different if it weren't used every season- just of there was something that Tim very much disagreed with, like the original time he used it... or even the second time when he used it on Justin (I thought his elimination design was him taking a really interesting risk and he should have earned some extra points for that) So my point is, I'd be glad for the Tim Gunn save to vanish forever.

[Canada]

I don't mind the Tim Gunn Save so much, if he used it on a deserving designer.  But, as has been pointed out, he seems to just use it on whichever puppy dog is being picked on at the time.  It's not being used on someone who's likely to go far.  This instance was eerily similar to it's use in the most recent season of Project Runway, even to the point that the designers involved have similar looks, but are not very good designers.  TG is free to call people out on being bullies if he wants to, but not save an average designer because of it, a designer who will then be kept around at the expense of people who deserve to be there.

[Beamish]

A'kai should have gone home. Second week in a row he's in the bottom for construction issues and general aesthetic issues. In my opinion he should have gone home last week, but that's just me. There is no way he is going to win this thing, so letting him go would have been merciful, especially to someone so young and developing the skills he will need to handle this type of thing in adult life. Now he will be strung along, maybe even win one of the weeks, only to be eventually eliminated probably over construction issues. Giving him a glimmer of hope only to eventually eliminate him is just cruel to a child.

The manufactured drama of PR teams, the "non-rigged' button bag and all that comes with them are bad enough on the regular version of PR, but it is just cruel to the kids. I'm sticking around for a bit longer, but there's only so much I can take when PR shenanigans are aimed at children who are developing skills regarding teamwork, dealing with loss, controlling emotions etc. I want to see happy kids with good skills doing well and learning about the craft of design, along with the competition aspect. The kids version shouldn't be an exact replica of the original. It should also include designers teaching them something (like color blocking or what avant garde is, for example), then they have to factor that into their design and creation. Teach them something, they are kids!

I detest the Tim Gunn save.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Beamish

[speac]

I detest the Tim Gunn save, but if it must exist then this was a good time to use it--not because A'kai has shown any particular talent to be worth saving but because it was impossible to place the failure of the garment on one person.  Sending them both home would seem a bit harsh because when A'kai took it on himself to reverse the silver material with the gauzy stuff at the last minute,  it changed the look to a totally different one and Hawwaa did not have the ability to adapt her top to the new look.   Teamwork is a skill that comes with maturity, and even then not every adult has the ability to set part of their own ego aside for the greater good of the project.  Young teens who are just finding their own skills and ego, especially if they have been an outsider for most of their social life, are going to be less able to work in difficult conditions.   By using the save now it is out of the way and no one can use it's existance as a crutch.

Also there is an unseen factor when it comes to Runway Junior--they have alluded to it in a comment aimed 'off stage' to parents, but there are parents and guardians on set with these minors.  We don't know what factor they may have played in the group dynamics. 

[auntlada]

Do the kids interact with their parents/guardians during taping? I had never thought about it before and am just curious.

[speac]

Here an interview from season 1.   If the parents can prevent drama but checking a child's behavior between taping, they can elect not to interfere or even can add to it.  I don't know if it happened, but it is something that should be considered on any of the reality shows involving children.  Reality shows are heavily manipulated when it comes what footage is shown to follow whatever story arc the producer wants and what questions are asked in the talking head shots.   They can make an angel look like a devil and a devil look like an angel during the editing stage.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tim-gunn-on-project-runway-1294446681636918.html?ref=gs

[auntlada]

1 hour ago, speac said:

Here an interview from season 1.   If the parents can prevent drama but checking a child's behavior between taping, they can elect not to interfere or even can add to it.  I don't know if it happened, but it is something that should be considered on any of the reality shows involving children.  Reality shows are heavily manipulated when it comes what footage is shown to follow whatever story arc the producer wants and what questions are asked in the talking head shots.   They can make an angel look like a devil and a devil look like an angel during the editing stage.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tim-gunn-on-project-runway-1294446681636918.html?ref=gs

Thanks. That was interesting. It just occurred to me to wonder if A'Kai or Hawaa (or any others) were able to confer with their parents or if their parents were able to offer them advice about their behavior. I wish some of the regular Project Runway contestants could have parents (or someone) tell them to straighten up.

[Roxy]

On 1/6/2017 at 8:41 PM, 7-Zark-7 said:

At the end I was sulking "Those bastards got rid of my dream nephew!" Then Tim Gunn came in with the save and I thought "Really? This early? For my dream nephew? He'll probably go out next week."

That is so funny because he reminds me so much of my wonderful niece when she was about ten. The unintentional spewing of the internal LONG dialogues and the need to be perfect but usually falling a bit short. The awkward but endearing insecurity. In other words, a really sweet kid.

I was wishing they'd send him home as I can't stand to see the kid upset. I guess Juniors may not be for me either but he's the only one who seems really to be a kid, not a teen who is better equipped to handle pressure and rejection....to some degree. I just think he needs more practice and study and to then come back. 

The way she treated him wasn't very nice but she's a teenager and "nice" is not really in their playbook with a peer who may be causing them strife. Well, not to most teens, anyway. Or adults for that matter. But she's a kid, too, so she gets some slack from me.

Deep down, I'm too much of a mom-type for the kids on this show. I just feel bad and think a few more years and they'd be better on the main stage. Then they can get sent home and ripped by judges and that's their choice- they signed up for it.

[speac]

13 minutes ago, auntlada said:

Thanks. That was interesting. It just occurred to me to wonder if A'Kai or Hawaa (or any others) were able to confer with their parents or if their parents were able to offer them advice about their behavior. I wish some of the regular Project Runway contestants could have parents (or someone) tell them to straighten up.

I would bet that the teens are living with their parent/guardian instead of the hotel dorms that the regular PR alumni live in.  I suspect we will never see any footage of the PR Juniors leaving for the workday from an extended stay hotel.  We can't know how much a parent/guardian influences one of the teens over their behavior or design.  It's one of the problems of working with children.  I am unsure if they are also having to deal with a limited shooting schedule each day and if the teens can sew while not being filmed.

[Sesquipedalia]

I like the concept of the Tim Gunn save, but since it's a show about fashion, it would be much more interesting to me if he would save designers based on fashion grounds instead of based on the circumstances of their elimination. For example, there have been quite a few times when Tim encouraged a designer whose look ended up losing. I would like to see him say "I like this look because of x, y, and z, and therefore I'm saving this designer."

Of course, saving designers who had a bad challenge based on past work is also totally legitimate, or even saving someone like Akai for purely sentimental reasons--it's the Tim Gunn save after all, so he gets to pick the criteria. But for me personally I wouldn't mind seeing a little more fashion-based drama between Tim and the judges and maybe a little less drama between the contestants.

[Canada]

I wouldn't have been upset if both Akai and Hawwaa had gone home this week.

[Love2dance]

8 hours ago, Beamish said:

The manufactured drama of PR teams, the "non-rigged' button bag and all that comes with them are bad enough on the regular version of PR, but it is just cruel to the kids. I'm sticking around for a bit longer, but there's only so much I can take when PR shenanigans are aimed at children who are developing skills regarding teamwork, dealing with loss, controlling emotions etc. I want to see happy kids with good skills doing well and learning about the craft of design, along with the competition aspect. The kids version shouldn't be an exact replica of the original. It should also include designers teaching them something (like color blocking or what avant garde is, for example), then they have to factor that into their design and creation. Teach them something, they are kids!

 

I completely agree.

[nb360]

8 hours ago, Beamish said:

The kids version shouldn't be an exact replica of the original. It should also include designers teaching them something (like color blocking or what avant garde is, for example), then they have to factor that into their design and creation. Teach them something, they are kids!

I love this idea!

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Project Runway: Junior Pairs Up For An En Garde/Avant-Garde Challenge

The season's first team challenge brings out the worst in one designer.

[MortysCleaningLady]

Tim loves to use the Tim Gunn Save (TM) on the victim of bully/bullies, doesn't he?  A'Kai probably would have been a stronger candidate on the show in another 2 or 3 years.    

 

Pretty much hated everything on the runway last night.

[gunderda]

18 hours ago, auntlada said:

Do the kids interact with their parents/guardians during taping? I had never thought about it before and am just curious.

The adults seem to be able to talk to family whenever they want/need to so i don't see why it would be different with the kids.  I've always just kinda assumed that they are treated as if they are at summer camp - they are working almost all day, every day, although i don't know when or if they get any true breaks that they might take them out on field trips but they are probably fed and taken well care of (if their guardians aren't around). 

And if Tim is going to keep using his save on team challenges that ended badly then maybe they should just get rid of team challenges.  No one likes them anyways!

[backgroundnoise]

On 1/7/2017 at 7:52 PM, ichbin said:

Tim disagreed with the perception but it does seem like he goes out of his way to address anything with the slightest hint of bullying behavior since then.  

My problem with this is that he takes sides, which he should not do as a mentor to everyone.  He should not be listening to complaints without getting the other person's side of the story first-hand.  His calling A'Kai a "statesman" was a slam to Hawaa.   Have a time out with both of them or neither, IMO.

[dleighg]

3 minutes ago, backgroundnoise said:

He should not be listening to complaints without getting the other person's side of the story first-hand.  His calling A'Kai a "statesman" was a slam to Hawaa.

you're so right about that.

[auntlada]

1 hour ago, backgroundnoise said:

My problem with this is that he takes sides, which he should not do as a mentor to everyone.  He should not be listening to complaints without getting the other person's side of the story first-hand.  His calling A'Kai a "statesman" was a slam to Hawaa.   Have a time out with both of them or neither, IMO.

That is why I had a problem with him asking A'kai if he should call Hawaa in. Tim is the adult. He should know to talk to Hawaa if there is to be a solution. He shouldn't have asked. If he just wanted to be a sounding board for A'kai, that is fine, but it sounded to me like he was trying to help, which is good, but you can't help and fix the situation without input from both people involved. As it was, to me it came off as A'kai tattling to Tim that Hawaa was picking on him. (I did not think she was, but opinions vary. I thought she was frustrated with someone who was very slow, who didn't or couldn't communicate well and who wouldn't or couldn't ask for help. He would have driven me crazy. This is why I never liked group projects in school.)

 I don't know if that is how it was meant to look, but I doubt it.

[rose711]

Does using the Tim Gun save mean they have a double elimination episode coming up? I don't know how it usually works.

[hatchetgirl]

I thought it was fine going to Tim for advice and that's exactly what Tim gave.  I liked that Tim offered to talk to both and the kid said he'd talk to her alone, which is pretty mature. I bet he tried but they edited it out. 

[backgroundnoise]

20 minutes ago, hatchetgirl said:

I thought it was fine going to Tim for advice and that's exactly what Tim gave.  I liked that Tim offered to talk to both and the kid said he'd talk to her alone, which is pretty mature. I bet he tried but they edited it out. 

What I didn't like was Tim calling the kid a "statesman."  That translates to A'Kai being mature and diplomatic in dealing with the crazy and Hawaa being unreasonable and a bitch.  Tim formed and expressed a value judgment about Hawaa just by listening to A'Kai.   At least that's how I took it.  YMMV.

[hatchetgirl]

36 minutes ago, backgroundnoise said:

What I didn't like was Tim calling the kid a "statesman."  That translates to A'Kai being mature and diplomatic in dealing with the crazy and Hawaa being unreasonable and a bitch.  Tim formed and expressed a value judgment about Hawaa just by listening to A'Kai.   At least that's how I took it.  YMMV.

I see what you  mean. :). Agree.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't want my son put through this. These are kids, not grown adults, making decisions, acting the way they act. Kids.  It's sad because if they are painted with an editor's brush, that will follow them.  And yes, I know the editors get what they get, but again, kids, without filter. This kid is my fave because he seems sweet, doesn't seem to say mean underhanded things the other older kids say, but he's way  out of his league. He should go home soon because his skills are not there. I don't feel like he tattled to Tim, but did seem to be asking for advice. 

[LennieBriscoe]

ms Blue Jay:

Quote

It's a fashion show about teenage artists.  And yet some viewers have a problem with the personal style of the designers.  It's interesting, isn't it.  These kids don't even dress that weird.

  Not liking something is not synonymous with "have a problem with." Moreover, BECAUSE this is a show about style and design, the personal ones of the competitors are fair game! There is no paradox here.

[Guest]

I was curious how old Hawaa is because of the piercings so I googled up an article.  It said she was Muslim and a hs senior, so I'm guessing she's 17, since the show is billed as having designers aged 13-17 (not 18).  I have a teen who's been begging for a nose ring since age 15 and while I'm super liberal, I draw the line at facial piercings.  And she can't get pierced at a shop as a minor without parental consent.  To each their own but I find most facial piercings ugly and tacky looking.  I find Hawaa's personal style super ugly, and no, that is not off-topic or racist or anti-Muslim. 

They all have parents there.  It's the law.  But I read that the parents weren't allowed in the workroom, the kids only saw them at night.  I assume the dubbed in "I would've saved Hawaa, too" line was at her parent's request, so she came off less like a bully.  That is pretty much the only use of the TGS:  save the poor bullied designer. 

I have no idea how anyone can be a fan of the show, about to go on, and not bother googling 'avant garde' (if they'd even need to). 

The winning look looked like something out of a Pixar movie to me. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Guest

[savannah1985]

The winning look reminded me of the terra cotta warriors found buried in China.

[Indy]

I think A'Kai is adorable (he won me over falling off his chair in his first talking head in Ep1) but he seems so young and really should have gone home.  I'm sure he has tons of potential as a designer but not every sweet, victim type needs to be saved. I much prefer Tim to use his save for later episodes where a really strong contestant has a bad day or when the judging is just really, really off kilter (like if a guest judge gets too much of an opinion....and yeah, I'm still bitter about the Nancy O'Dell situation a million seasons ago).

For me we're still at the stage where there are too many contestants for me to really process but so far Molly and Cartier are my favorites. 

[Mabinogia]

I wish they had told A'Kai that, even though he's going home this week, they fully expect him to practice his design skills and come back when he feels ready to try again because they see potential. I think that would have let him out of this uncomfortable situation with enough of a confidence boost for him to not give up hope.

Can designers reapply for this show? Like if they make it to the show? I know if they don't make in on the show they can keep trying, but could A'Kai, after getting booted, which he will, probably soon, come back or does he have to wait for Jr All Stars? I think they should, especially for the kids, because some just aren't ready yet but probably didn't want to risk the show not being around by the time they are ready.