S10.E11: The Birthday Synchronicity

[hnygrl]

9 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Would people their age (really my age) be that into Harry Potter?  I always got the impression it was more of a next generation younger sort of story.  I know Harry Potter and the story, its OK, but I would not be going to a Wizarding World or upset if someone went without me. 

I'm old enough to be those boys' mom. I'm a serious Potter Nerd and would be PISSED if someone went to Wizarding World without me. Are you kidding? TAKE ME and let me pick my own swag. I got Sheldon being angry.

That baby's cry though. Cracked. Me. Up.

Stuart went to a prestigious art school, and had his own one-man-showing (date with Penny). The man is good. I hate that the writers conveniently forget this. I love the idea for an online strip starring the boys and their antics. I would love to see Stuart have is own graphic novel, but I guess he's doomed to be the Manny...with him and Raj, fighting over who's turn it is to change the baby's diaper...

I really hope next season is the last season. Let's land this plane already. 

[theatremouse]

I didn't think they were conveniently forgetting it with Raj's line in the last episode/previouslies of this one. I thought they were just having Raj be mean and condescending to Stuart.

[Frost]

Stuart managed to get a date with Penny by being talented enough to draw a (presumably) good sketch of her.  Not to mention, why didn't Amy commission Stuart to paint the BFF picture? 

[wknt3]

11 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Raj and Stuart are the show's problem kids though. And I agree the writing for Raj is worse and also full of retcons. He did get recognition for his work and he was hardly stellar boyfriend material. But I think the main problem is that he got separated from the others on both main fronts of the show: professionally because he's not part of the military project and privately since he's the only single (of the main group). This created a lot of problems and the solution to have him creepily attached to Bernadette's pregnancy wasn't a solution at all but made things worse.

At least the writers seem to recognize the problems and hopefully these two characters (and their actors) get better plots.

At this point I don't really care about Stuart. I agree that they've gone too far, but it doesn't really bother me. They can simply take it down a notch and muddle through another season or two. Raj does since he's a bigger part of the show and there is an element of creepiness and malice with him that there isn't with Stuart. And yes the writers seem to realize that they've made a mistake, but this isn't the first time they've put it on screen and it's never been followed up on.

[LoneHaranguer]

8 hours ago, roamyn said:

Well, their daughter is pronounced with the soft 'a', because Howard said her name.

It wss pronounced consistently with the way they spelled it, which apparently isn't any of the ways Halley spelled his, none of which would seem to support the same pronunciation.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

He deserves to be miserable because he had a perfectly nice girlfriend and ditched her when that chick who wanted to write a Sci Fi movie showed up. And she wasn't even into him

Raj deserves to be miserable because he's a jerk to everyone he dates. His best behavior was with Emily, and he snooped the first time she left him alone in her home. He was even insulting to Penny when she went with him to the People event.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm assuming he owns that comic book store since he was living there at one point. Why doesn't he sell the building if it's so unsuccessful?

Stuart might still owe more than he can get for it, even with the contribution by Howard's mother.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I still have a hard time buying Sheldon as anything but asexual and an even harder time believing he could have sex for hours the first time he ever did it

It could just be that Sheldon has dethroned Leonard as the "king of foreplay". I wonder if he ever learned what Kripke meant by "toys".

[babyhouseman]

I'm a 44 year old female who has read the HP books and seen the movies. I'm a casual fan and would go to the amusement park if given the opportunity. I have a 30 year old male cousin who is really into HP. He knows the minute trivia. I've always wished he could have the opportunity to go there because he loves HP so much. Another cousin's wife who's close to 30 is another major HP fan and went to the park on her honeymoon. Her husband is not a fan, and I bet he got big points for that. He did say the lines were too long. lol

As for the show, it was nice not seeing Bernadette screech her way through labor, and the talk about Howard's mother was good. The actress who played the nurse has been in many TV shows. She was Will Smith's mother in Fresh Prince. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by babyhouseman

[Angeltoes]

Quote

42 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

The actress who played the nurse has been in many TV shows. She was Will Smith's mother in Fresh Prince.

 

She played a teenager on Welcome Back Kotter in the 70s (which is where I first saw her) so she's been around a while.

[sassykattt]

I think it's sad, and very American, that the writers can only write a talented artist and unique personality as a gormless loser. They have so many ways they could go with Stuart, and all they can play is loser.  I hate it.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

6 hours ago, hnygrl said:

I really hope next season is the last season. Let's land this plane already.

The summary of the ways that each character had grown during the series was emblematic of the embarrassing jejune character that this sitcom now features. It's so often predictable, and the plots are stale with jokes, dialog, and flashbacks of deja vu . The sparkling repartee and putdowns of earlier seasons are few and far between now. The Harry Potter references made me wince, because the writers were obviously hoping to get predictable  knee-jerk fangasms of this episode from Potterites in the audience.

These writers are lazy and overpaid, and their work is so disappointing. The actors seem very willing to run with any good material they manage to get, so even they must be missing the good ole days of this show.

[QuelleC]

Since I don't see an answer H P and the philosophers stone, the first book, was renamed to sorcerers stone for  Americans. my son was 9 when it came out so I read them along with him .  The last few were preordered so they'd show up the day of release in a special H P box as if by owl post.

[Ciarrai]

I found it unrealistic that they hadn't even discussed names until she was in labour, but maybe I'm too much of a name nerd and it's actually quite normal. I do like the name Halley (or however they spell it).

I'm the atheist godmother to my niece, so Raj not being Christian didn't even faze me.

[OtterMommy]

42 minutes ago, Ciarrai said:

I found it unrealistic that they hadn't even discussed names until she was in labour, but maybe I'm too much of a name nerd and it's actually quite normal. I do like the name Halley (or however they spell it).

I'm the atheist godmother to my niece, so Raj not being Christian didn't even faze me.

It's not unusual.  I have a friend who, for her three children, refused to discuss names with her husband (or find out the gender) until they were born.  Before that, both the mom and dad made a list of names for both genders they liked.  Once the baby arrived, they got out their lists, compared names, and chose something.

I thought it was a pretty cool idea, but I don't think there would be any way I'd be able to do it.

[Crs97]

I find that people are very judgmental about your name choices before you have the baby.  We would keep a running list for our own discussion, but wouldn't pick the final name until after the baby was born.

[BlossomCulp]

Yeah if they never discussed names at all I'd be surprised but not choosing a name is certainly something I could see especially since they didn't know the gender.  We didn't know with our first and we had names picked out if a boy this, if a girl that but when she was born she didn't look like the name we picked at at all LOL so it was back to the drawing board.

[LisaM]

I loved that Howard teared up at the thought of his mother missing the birth....and that they recognized the actress by using her type of voice. Nice. 

Cannot stand Raj. I can tolerate Stuart but Raj is on my last nerve. 

[Angeltoes]

Some people don't pick out a name until they meet the baby and then it's,"Oh, he's definately a William."  

[Helena Dax]

A Gryffindor, Sheldon? C'mon, you're clearly a Ravenclaw! Also, there's absolutely nothing scandalous about a Gryffindor/Hufflepuff romance. It happens a lot. Neville was a Gryffindor and he ended up with Hannah Abbot, who was a Hufflepuff. Also, Remus and Tonks. Now, if you really want a scandal, try Gryffindor/Slytherin or Slytherin/Hufflepuff. 

[theatremouse]

16 hours ago, P3pp3rb1rd said:

The summary of the ways that each character had grown during the series was emblematic of the embarrassing jejune character that this sitcom now features.

It screamed "lazy series finale" to me, which was an odd sensation given they obviously knew it wasn't one when it was written. But sure, hang six lanterns on it, sounds about right. I used to love this show so much but I'm hoping they don't reup after the current contracts end.

[holly4755]

Just an FYI on SHeldon and how long sex takes, Sheldon should know, he googled it! It is like being at a buffet - some people sample bits, but Sheldon probably believes he has to do everything to the proper conclusion, If that is true, it is surprising that he gets it done in less than 24 hours.

[anna0852]

24 minutes ago, holly4755 said:

Just an FYI on SHeldon and how long sex takes, Sheldon should know, he googled it! It is like being at a buffet - some people sample bits, but Sheldon probably believes he has to do everything to the proper conclusion, If that is true, it is surprising that he gets it done in less than 24 hours.

If that is the case, Amy is one lucky girl.

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, Ciarrai said:

I found it unrealistic that they hadn't even discussed names until she was in labour, but maybe I'm too much of a name nerd and it's actually quite normal. I do like the name Halley (or however they spell it).

I'm the atheist godmother to my niece, so Raj not being Christian didn't even faze me.

 

10 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I find that people are very judgmental about your name choices before you have the baby.  We would keep a running list for our own discussion, but wouldn't pick the final name until after the baby was born.

CBS was cutting out intermittently, but not enough for me to bother rewatching online, so I'm not sure about this, but was it definitely clear that Howard and Bernadette had never discussed names before? I just assumed this was the final discussion, but then I'm a name nerd too, and yes, any name you try out on friends or family ahead of time is going to be met with at least one "I knew a horrible child with that name" or some other negative association with the name, so I found it better to say after the baby is born, "Her name is Chloe," or whatever name was chosen.

Since Bernadette is Catholic (right?) and Howard's Jewish parents are not around, I'm wagering that the middle name would be Bernadette, which would mean her initials are the innocuous HBW (I was also very careful to not give any of my 3 girls initials that spelled anything).

[theatremouse]

16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

but was it definitely clear that Howard and Bernadette had never discussed names before? I just assumed this was the final discussion

It wasn't explicit, so you're right it could have been the final discussion, but there was a tone to the way they brought it up that read to me like "oops, guess we better pick a name now huh" that did not also carry an "...of the many we've previously discussed". Just the fact that in the scene she asked him his mother's middle name (so clearly she didn't know it/hadn't previously suggested using his mother's middle name before), while it's possible the writers meant to imply this was a final discussion, definitely some of what they were discussing in the room had not been been previously discussed, so it doesn't really make sense for it to have been a final discussion. It played like they didn't have a pre-set list of both gender names ready.

[Crs97]

I think you could take it either way.  It sounded a little to me like they hadn't discussed names at all yet, maybe because they didn't know the gender until then.  For some, the baby doesn't seem real until he/she arrives.  Then again, you could also take it as they talked about it early in general terms and decided to put off a detailed discussion and decision until the end.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

21 hours ago, sassykattt said:

I think it's sad, and very American, that the writers can only write a talented artist and unique personality as a gormless loser. They have so many ways they could go with Stuart, and all they can play is loser.  I hate it.

Stuart's lack of a social life will be the reason that Howard and Bernadette will be able to join the others without dragging along the baby:  "She's with Stuart."

[xtwheeler]

On 12/16/2016 at 9:09 AM, azathoth said:

Fucking Raj. That sums it up for me.  Oh, and if the baby is baptized Catholic, Raj can't be the godfather, because godparents have to be practicing Catholics.

This is incorrect. Babies baptized Catholic must have ONE Catholic Godparent. So, assuming Halley has a Catholic Godmother, Raj is a perfectly acceptable Godfather. (Source: am non-Catholic Godmother to Catholic Godson.) 

Also, I've always heard Halley's Comet pronounced as Howard pronounced it, bit I've never heard of the "girl's name is ALWAYS pronounced short-A HAL-ley rule as another poster stated. 

My mid-40s friends male and female are all rabid Potter fans, and visiting Potter world without one's significant other would cause divorce proceedings all around. For Sheldon, I mean, come ON, there is a magical TRAIN. 

Most hospitals do not maintain a full time nursery as a matter of course anymore. Most babies "room in" with mom. The "baby friendly" hospitals go so far as to refuse to care for baby away from mom, which is proving to be a horrendous and dangerous idea. Turns out that women who have been split open surgically, topped off with opiates, and are in the midst of an enormous hormonal crash sometimes need some *support* and assistance. I would have had an even more severe mental health emergency had I not been able to send my newborn to the nursery while I slept for a few hours, given that I was alone and in crisis immediately after her birth. I'm assuming the show did the scene that way just to deliver the scene they wanted. 

I loved this episode. So touching about Howard's mom. Laugh out loud funny and touching between Sheldon and Amy. Birth was handled well. Great all around. 

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

This is incorrect. Babies baptized Catholic must have ONE Catholic Godparent. So, assuming Halley has a Catholic Godmother, Raj is a perfectly acceptable Godfather. (Source: am non-Catholic Godmother to Catholic Godson.)

No, he is not. Raj is not baptized (as far as we know) and a godparent or Christian witness (that is what non-Catholic but Christian godparents are sometimes referred to) must be baptized.

Edited December 18, 2016 by MissLucas

[wknt3]

On 12/16/2016 at 11:33 PM, sassykattt said:

I think it's sad, and very American, that the writers can only write a talented artist and unique personality as a gormless loser. They have so many ways they could go with Stuart, and all they can play is loser.  I hate it.

I don't think it really has anything to do with American attitudes to artists. It has everything to do with Chuck Lorre thinking losers are hilarious (other posters who are more familiar with his body of work have pointed out his fondness for this character type) and Kevin Sussman being very funny and effective at playing hangdog. This show develops characters by seizing on actors' particular strengths and pushing it as far as it can go (and sometimes farther). The original conception was quite a bit different and more of a winner, but many geek based brick and mortar businesses are struggling in the real world and just about all of the characters have been put in the underdog role at some point so when the actor turned out to be good at it we were stuck with it. Just as tiny Bernadette being bossy and vicious when she got upset was a funny idea that Melissa Rauch executed very well and we ended up with that to the nth degree. Not because of cultural stereotypes of female scientists, because that's just how the writers work. If you are not a main character you will only get layers if you are Simon Helberg and excel equally at everything they give you.

[mojoween]

I am glad Sheldon and Amy had multiple episodes of coitus interruptus because what little we saw skeeved me out to no end.  I just do not see either of them that way.

I like Kevin Sussman but Stuart should have been left alone with occasional appearances as the mildly successful artist who owns their favorite store.  Maybe Stuart never recovered from Penny saying Leonard's and that started the downward spiral.

I already had a boy's first name picked out before I ever met my husband and he said "whatever."  Only concession was changing the middle name to his because he said having the middle name of my best (male) friend since childhood wasn't going to work for him.

I'll add to the chorus and say that hubby going to HP without me would mean HP World would have a new performer because I wouldn't let him come home.  I'm 43 and strongly hinted that a Slytherin scarf would be a great Christmas gift.

[QuelleC]

Ha I gave my son the middle name of a good male friend since his father insisted he didn't want to be involved. When he came back I resisted a lot ofpressure to change it. In the end I'm glad I didn't give him my brother name either.   But on topic raj has annoyed me but I've never been angry with him until he revealed the sex. We weren't going to get a birth scene for good reason but damming how disappointing. About the vanity cards they're self indulgent but don't you have to go out of your way to either freeze the d v r or look them up? Sorry I type poorly on the phone every one. 

[BlossomCulp]

I've yet to read a vanity card.  They go by fast and I can't be bothered even trying to see them anyway!

[Big Mother]

Raj and Stuart had no business tagging along with Howard and Bernadette while they were waiting for labor to intensify. This is ridiculous. In general, I dont' know why all the couples had to sit in the waiting room and wait for the news. They couldve been notified via text or something.

Also, Bernadette: why so insistent on a natural birth? Get an epidural! If youre not getting an epidural, at least get a doula/birth coach who can help make it better.

Hallie's Debbie-like cry made me crack up at the end. Mazel tov!

Was very happy that Raj was chosen to be godfather. I felt so sorry for him.

[LoneHaranguer]

On 12/16/2016 at 11:33 PM, sassykattt said:

They have so many ways they could go with Stuart, and all they can play is loser.

Somebody has to. It's where they get some of the humor. When the show started, all of the main characters were losers, but they couldn't be static if the show were to last. The writers have been able to hold back Raj, but they couldn't put all of the weight on one character and Stuart was the easiest secondary character to sabotage.

On 12/17/2016 at 11:28 PM, Crs97 said:

It sounded a little to me like they hadn't discussed names at all yet, maybe because they didn't know the gender until then.  For some, the baby doesn't seem real until he/she arrives

Sounds like a defense in case something goes horribly wrong (not that anyone's going to just shrug it off, but it could help).

[hnygrl]

I was thinking about the "Raj revealed the baby's sex" situation.

Yes, it's a HIPAA violation.

FOR THE DOCTOR!!! He left Private Patient Information right out in the open for anyone to see. OF COURSE he looked. The Doctor, not Raj (who was a dick for looking), is the one in violation of the law. That folder should've been put away in a locked drawer, or taken with him. 

[proserpina65]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 3:59 PM, iMonrey said:

I still have a hard time buying Sheldon as anything but asexual and an even harder time believing he could have sex for hours the first time he ever did it. He has such a child-like persona it just skeeves me out.

I'm thinking lots of foreplay 'cause the internet said that was what women wanted.  But like you, the idea of him having sex kinda creeps me out.

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 3:59 PM, iMonrey said:

He deserves to be miserable because he had a perfectly nice girlfriend and ditched her when that chick who wanted to write a Sci Fi movie showed up. And she wasn't even into him.

Not that I don't agree that Raj has created most of his romantic misery himself in later seasons (not so much the first few), but are you referring to Emily when you say he had a perfectly nice girlfriend?  I thought she was rather weird and sometimes downright creepy.

[Artsda]

The timeline of this day seemed impossible and  inconsistent. It started the night of Amy's birthday, the try to go to the hospital, Bernadette gets sent home, Penny wanted to do something "since they're awake anyway." Then they go back to the hospital, the baby is born, then Sheldon & Amy go to Universal Studios (driving from Pasadena to Hollywood) and go to Wizarding World all in the same night where it's still Amy's birthday at the end of the episode?  The park closes at 10.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Artsda

[LoneHaranguer]

On 12/17/2016 at 6:44 PM, holly4755 said:

Just an FYI on SHeldon and how long sex takes, Sheldon should know, he googled it! It is like being at a buffet - some people sample bits, but Sheldon probably believes he has to do everything to the proper conclusion,

How else is he going to know what Amy likes best? It's like the time he wanted to know what words she thought were funny, and Amy asked him how many he was going to go through; he said "all of them".

[Big Mother]

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

The timeline of this day seemed impossible and  inconsistent. It started the night of Amy's birthday, the try to go to the hospital, Bernadette gets sent home, Penny wanted to do something "since they're awake anyway." Then they go back to the hospital, the baby is born, then Sheldon & Amy go to Universal Studios (driving from Pasadena to Hollywood) and go to Wizarding World all in the same night where it's still Amy's birthday at the end of the episode?  The park closes at 10.

It actually makes VERY MUCH sense. Bc it started at midnight. The whole 'lets go to the hospital - it's a false alar ' probably took an hour or less.  There was probably another hour or two until Bernie's water broke and they went back to the hospital. A first labor can take 12 hours or more. So this baby could've been born anywhere from 9 in the morning to 2 in the afternoon... So when they went to Wizarding world it was already in middle of the day.  I just don't know how either of them had the energy for sex when they were awake for almost 24 hours. Unless they napped in the waiting room (I still don't understand why they all had to sit for hours in the waiting room for no reason at all) or went home, grabbed a nap and then went to Wizarding world. P.S. - don't they all have jobs? was this on a saturday?

[Hanahope]

For all info, the Harry Potter Wizarding World that Amy and Sheldon went to is in Universal Studios in Hollywood, very close to where they live in Pasadena, just a few, maybe 10 miles or so away.  Its not a "separate park" like it is in Orlando, Florida.  For many friends of mine who live in So Cal (where I used to live), they buy yearly passes to there and Disneyland, so its not unusual at all to hear them talk about their numerous and recent trips.  So while I can see Sheldon being disappointed that Amy didn't take him with her, its not very difficult for both of them to up and go back to the park at any time.  Its not like they had to plan a real vacation for it.

And speaking of which, I'm a HP fan and I'm over 40.  Now, I'm not hugely into it as far as dressing up and such, but I very much like the whole world and I'm looking forward to seeing HPWW in Universal Hollywood over the Christmas holidays.

To my knowledge, its called HAL-ees comet after the man who discovered it.  People started calling it HAY-lees comet because of the singer Bill Haley who called his band the Comets after someone suggested it, to hook into the actual comet.  So that's where the name pronunciation confusion comes in.  People are so used to hearing Bill Haley and the Comets (pronunced Hay-lee), that they now think the actual comet is pronounced the same way, and it really isn't.

That baby's cry was just hilarious.  Oh boy do I feel sorry for Bernadette.  I too was a bit surprised by the nursery, as I didn't see one like that in the hospital I used, they just brought the babies into the room with me after they did their exam and such.  Made it easy to begin breastfeeding.  But obviously they wanted to use the nursery for the cry joke, which worked.

[LoneHaranguer]

2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

To my knowledge, its called HAL-ees comet after the man who discovered it.

A complicating factor is that he wasn't consistent in spelling his name and most of the spellings would argue for the correct pronunciation being HAY-lee or HALL-ee. Somebody picked "Halley" for the comet, and most people currently with that name pronounce it HAL-ee, but since Howard and Bernie's daughter is being named after the man, the spelling and pronunciation they're using for her is just fine, as it would be if they had named her some variation of "Holly".

[Calamity Jane]

9 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

A complicating factor is that he wasn't consistent in spelling his name and most of the spellings would argue for the correct pronunciation being HAY-lee or HALL-ee. Somebody picked "Halley" for the comet, and most people currently with that name pronounce it HAL-ee, but since Howard and Bernie's daughter is being named after the man, the spelling and pronunciation they're using for her is just fine, as it would be if they had named her some variation of "Holly".

And there's the fact that you can pretty much pronounce a name any way you want to for your child, so even if she's named for the discoverer of the comet, they can say it however they want.  My first year of teaching I had a student named Noemi, pronounced "Naomi."  First of many, many confusions to follow, including several named Chandra pronounced Chondra, Shondra, and Channdra.  I learned pretty quickly to ask and make notes the first day of classes.  

[Captain Stable]

19 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

And there's the fact that you can pretty much pronounce a name any way you want to for your child, so even if she's named for the discoverer of the comet, they can say it however they want.  My first year of teaching I had a student named Noemi, pronounced "Naomi."  First of many, many confusions to follow, including several named Chandra pronounced Chondra, Shondra, and Channdra.  I learned pretty quickly to ask and make notes the first day of classes.  

My surname is spelled "Luxury-Yacht" but pronounced "Throat-wobbler-Mangrove."

[lh25]

On 12/16/2016 at 5:56 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Would people their age (really my age) be that into Harry Potter?  I always got the impression it was more of a next generation younger sort of story.  I know Harry Potter and the story, its OK, but I would not be going to a Wizarding World or upset if someone went without me. 

Hubby and are 53 and 54, and we are planning to go when we can swing it.  REALLY looking forward to it.

[mojoween]

On 12/18/2016 at 9:44 AM, mojoween said:

 I'm 43 and strongly hinted that a Slytherin scarf would be a great Christmas gift.

Update:  Barnes & Noble was out of Slytherin scarves so my mother bought me Harry Potter's wand instead.  It is completely useless and I love it to pieces.

On a completely unrelated I am angry with the show for grossing me out because I can't help but think if Sheldon is a master at hour-long foreplay, is Amy still wearing feminine protection all of the time?  

See, told you it was gross.

Edited December 26, 2016 by mojoween

[hnygrl]

On 12/25/2016 at 3:27 PM, mojoween said:

On a completely unrelated I am angry with the show for grossing me out because I can't help but think if Sheldon is a master at hour-long foreplay, is Amy still wearing feminine protection all of the time?  

See, told you it was gross.

Oh EW! Thanks for sharing, Mojoween...thanks for sharing...now I have a visual of Sheldon going down on a very extremely hairy Amy.

Now it's in YOUR HEAD too...*sticks out tongue*

[Hanahope]

So, btw, at Universal, one can just go to City Walk and there's a store to purchase all the HP stuff.  You don't actually have to go into the park/HP WW to buy the items.  (was just there over the holidays - and word of advise, do not go to Universal Hollywood between Christmas and NY, it was wall to wall people with 2 hour + waits for every 3-5 minute ride).

[theatremouse]

You can also order it from their online store, so she needn't have been in the park without him to obtain the outfit (or she could've lied to him about having gone) still neither of those are especially interesting plots. Not that this was really either.