S33.E11: About To Have A Rumble

[green]

4 hours ago, Trick Question said:

So much terrible gameplay.  Adam playing an idol he ultimately didn't need to play, Will's big flip being totally negated by Adam's idol and so Will essentially flipped for nothing, and Ken almost blowing the whole thing by tattling on Will.

 

I don't think Adam playing the idol was bad gameplay at all.  After Ken blew things up totally for their alliance I think it was a wise move not to trust Will because even Will said his emotions wanted revenge so who knew if his game side would win out.  Zeke is a great manipulator too.  So better safe than sorry so I think Adam was smart to make the play.

1 hour ago, weightyghost said:

The loved ones visit comes up every year. the show has been on 33 seasons and EVERY YEAR the group is hysterical. And yet it still surprises people.

Survivor is not living in a different city than your family, traveling around Europe for a month, living at college for a term. In those instances, you have lives. You have other friends. You are fed, and rested, and living a normal life. These people are physically, emotionally, mentally exhausted. They're starving, around strangers, sleeping on bamboo, and having to be 'on' because it's a game 24/7. They have zero trust in the people they're around, sunburnt and insect bitten, and have to be careful of everything they say because everyone is on edge and can turn on you in a second.

Yeah there's a million dollars at the end. That doesn't necessarily change their mental state. I'll give them a pass on shedding some tears. 

Well put.  Early on in the show's history I poo-pooed the visits too but I can understand them more like what Weightyghost said above nowadays.  It is probably like being in a pressure cooker for days on end and someone opens the lid for a few minutes of total reprieve and release.  I would really be worried if any player did NOT react emotionally during one of these.

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

I don't think I'd like Jay IRL but he's playing a hell of a game.  He was seen as the leader of the millennials yet he's still there.  He's a challenge beast yet he's still there.  He's been able to move pretty seamlessly from side to side but he's still there.  His name never comes up.  People seem to like him and listen to what he says.  Sunday wants to adopt him.  Will idolizes him.  (No pun intended.)  Adam will be eternally grateful to him.  He has friends on the jury.  

 

And don't forget he has an idol.  And with the groups so even they can't split votes to flush it; only try a blindside sometime.

The editors also really humanized him this episode too.  Weeping into his buff at each separate "loved one" reunion, picking Adam and talking to and not at Will and then telling him to do what he felt was best for himself.  And I especially like your comment that he has friends on the jury.  If he makes final three Taylor and Michelle are locks for him.  He has no blood on his hands over Zeke.  He played Will like a fiddle tonight.  And Sunday thinks she is Jay's new mom.  If people figure out how strong his jury support is they should be going after him above and beyond anyone else.  

I saw him as the villain from day one but enjoyed him.  Then the editors switched the villain title to Zeke and Jay is "human" again this episode.  He is getting one of the winner's edits along with David.  And honestly both deserve the win. 

I feel Adam is getting a sympathy edit but not really a winner's edit.  Hannah brings the humor edit.  All the others don't have a remote chance of winning in front of the jury unless the final three end up being Will, Brett and Sunday together (shudder). 

Someone above thought Ken was getting a winner's edit even after this episode.  No how, no way even before this episode.  After this episode's "stupid, idiotic, let me blow up the game not just for me but for my whole alliance" move, no way in hell.  He seems a nice person in real life but he was not made to play Survivor.  It is a game of cunning and treachery and poker-like skills at bluffing etc.  That isn't him.

Edited December 1, 2016 by green

[uoflfan]

Dear God, if Sunday wins this would be the worst season ever. I loathe her and would be okay with anyone BUT Sunday winning at this point. Ken and his brother were great eye candy! Sadly, Ken may not be the sharpest tool in the shed.

[laurakaye]

12 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Dan Foley comes to mind.  

Oh, Ladychatts...comparing Ken to Dan Foley breaks my Survivor fangirl heart.  I understand the comparison, though, except that Foley proclaimed his love for his wife was the stuff books are written about, and yet he had nothing but disdain for the women on his tribe.  Ken loves everyone with the soul of a poet and the heart of a troubador.  Or...something like that (swoon).

 

11 hours ago, Lingo said:

Ken? Ken??? Ken, don't do it you moron!!!! Ken? Ken! Ken! Ken Ken Ken! KEEEEEENNNNNNN!!!!!!!  ARGHGHGHHGHGH KEN!!!!

These were my thoughts exactly, and in that same order.

 

Will's voice in his confessional when he told us he was going to PLAY! AND! MAKE! BIG! MOVES! - geez, it was like he was summoning Neptune from the Underworld or something.  I got a good LOL from that.

Just so I'm clear - post-merge, idols are no longer re-hidden, right?  Then why did Zeke's group think that David would use his idol on Ken?  David already did that last TC.  They must've thought David had another idol, but how could he?  Unless like Bret said, 'David always has an idol."

And Probst?  I despise when he tells the losers of the loved one's challenge that they can't get one more hug.  They flew in all this way and they can't even get another freaking hug before leaving?  Didn't Penner ignore Probst and hug his wife anyway?  Big meanie, Probst.

If Jay can keep deflecting attention away from himself and his idol, and takes Sunday with him to the finals, I think he wins the game...unless David is in the #3 spot.  This is now my Dream Final 3.  

Edited December 1, 2016 by laurakaye

[Seelouis]

From the recap: When Probst reads the votes, Adam stands up and plays his Idol for Hannah. His team acts shocked. Did they not know he had an Idol?

No, actually. I don't think anyone knew Adam had an idol. Zeke's side was worried David might have an idol -- thinking his would have been re-hidden and he has had such luck finding them. That's why they were targeting Ken and Hannah. But, nobody on either side knew about Adam's idol. That's why it was such a surprise. Finally, someone effectively keeps an idol secret!

[Rachel RSL]

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 Ken loves everyone with the soul of a poet and the heart of a troubador.  Or...something like that (swoon).

Yes! LMAO! This seems like the perfect description. And, if I'm being totally honest, I can see how he might be insufferable to some people. Like when he was telling Hannah about the early morning sun, she said "Yeah, you told me that" and then he finished telling her again anyway. It made me wonder if he's one of those people who constantly walks around dropping random hipster knowledge, repeating it so often, he tells people the same stuff over and over again. He might be one of those people who would annoy the ever-loving crap out of me if I knew him (because, hipsters...ugh!) but for some reason it doesn't bother me with Ken.  I think it's probably because he IS SO FREAKING HOT seems like a nice guy. 

[TaraS1]

9 hours ago, Mabdul Doobakus said:

I liked Ken a lot until tonight.  That was just embarrassing, a total deer-in-the-headlights panic stricken meltdown.  I thought for a minute that he was making a completely selfish play to try to get both sides to vote out Will, but I don't think his move was even that strategic.  I would've at least given him SOME credit for that.  All he managed to do was make it harder for Will to take his side.  And I guess in a roundabout way, he did get the other side to shift their vote to Hannah, but there's no way that was his plan.  I took Ken as the guy who seemed to remain the most calm amidst all the craziness, but I think I was wrong.  With his back against the wall, he completely lost his mind.

I still like Ken, but that whole freak out definitely knocked him down a few pegs in my eyes.  I'm guessing if Will had said Zeke's side was voting for David or anyone else, there would have been no "test."  Kind of made me sad that noble, zen Ken turned into one of those players who spazzes out when their name is mentioned.

And as some others have mentioned, his begging and pointing to himself for Jay to choose him?  So very, very cringe-worthy.  The whole episode just wasn't a good look for Ken.

8 hours ago, Lingo said:

Man, the exasperation on the face of Ken's alliance members when he told them about his "test" ... I have a smile on my own face just thinking about it. I know a lot of these players are big fans of the show but I don't think Ken is. (And I'm pretty sure Michaela wasn't either.)

David's silent, panic-stricken, "WTF, man?!?" expression said it all lol

6 hours ago, Dewey Decimate said:

I'm so torn on the emotional family visits. On the one hand, I sometimes giggle at the hyper-emotional reunions, and then wonder about who the hell I'd have come out were I a contestant. (Mom doesn't fly, dad is getting old, and I love my brother, but he's one taciturn muthaf---er. I think the only way I'd cry is if my two cats were there to jump on my shoulders and rub their faces on my glasses.) Would I pretend to cry just to not look like an emotionless asshole on national tv? On the other hand, the familial acceptance of the non-straight guys was heartening and sweet to see. Or maybe I've just watched too much Ru Paul's Drag Race.

My dad doesn't fly and my mom would make me too emotional (to the point that I know I'd screw up the challenge and lose), so I've always secretly dreamed of finding a way to have Boy George brought out as my loved one.  That would bring me great joy.  

[ghoulina]

41 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Just so I'm clear - post-merge, idols are no longer re-hidden, right?  Then why did Zeke's group think that David would use his idol on Ken?  David already did that last TC.  They must've thought David had another idol, but how could he?  Unless like Bret said, 'David always has an idol."

I think they are re-hidden, if ALL Idols in play have been used. Adam still had his. But if no one knew about Adam's, that would explain why they thought a new one must have come into play and David found it. David and co. could have tried to act a bit more worried pre-Tribal, so the other side wouldn't have suspected they had a reason to feel safe. 

[LizBug]

Ken has a daughter?  This is the first time that he mentioned it?  

[zscore]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

When they were talking about the previous tribal and Zeke's tribe was all "we had to draw rocks, it was the only way", someone, I think Brett, stupidly said, "it was a 50% chance".  No it wasn't.  Hannah and Zeke were exempt.  David had immunity.  Ken had an idol played for him.  The people possibly going home were the four on Zeke's tribe (Brett, Sunday, Will or Jay) or the two on David's (Adam or Jess).  So the odds were worse for Zeke's half and they still went that route.  They got lucky.  

Jay had immunity. David had to draw rock.

[kermitmissesjim]

The best part of this episode was the credits vote-reveal. Adam wasted that idol! Hannah got four votes, but Will did flip and vote for Zeke. Zeke was jury bound, regardless.

[simplyme]

11 minutes ago, DallasGypsy said:

Ken has a daughter?  This is the first time that he mentioned it?  

He mentioned her (repeatedly) in a couple pre-game print interviews I saw. This is the first time they've shown footage of him mentioning her actually on the show, though.

[Uncle Benzene]

Just poking my head in for a second to say HOLY SHITBALLS was Jessica SMOKIN' at Tribal. Whoa! Where'd that come from?

[fishcakes]

Ken has great abs and terrible strategy. How was ratting Will out a test of Will? That could have been a test of Ken by Will (that Ken would have failed), if Will actually had any strategy and wasn't busy stomping around proclaiming that he's a man because he shaved that one time, but as it played out it was just people being dumb and annoying. I refuse to be on anyone's side in that kerfuffle.

I don't mind all the crying at the loved ones visit. I usually cry along with them, except for maybe during Worlds Apart when I sat there stonefaced unable to believe that those assholes had people who loved them. But in general my family and I are all pretty undemonstrative with each other, so I think if I were out there and, let's say, my brother came to visit, we'd probably just shake hands and then the Survivor interwebs would talk about how I am obviously a terrible person who doesn't have feelings.

15 hours ago, mojoween said:

And I am sure your brother is a LOVELY person, but.  Ken won the handsome lottery in that family.

Ha. When Probst said, "bring out Ken's brother," my reaction was, "YES. Let's get a look at Ken's brother. ... Oh. ... Okay, let's look at Ken some more!"

15 hours ago, susannot said:

In Africa, yes, but not in All-Stars.  And All-Stars was where Lex had a psychotic meltdown when Rob voted him out.  (IIRC.)

No one will ever have a more ridiculous reaction to getting voted out than Lex with his Blue Mohawk of Pique.

9 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

What I do not understand is how we are into December and at the end of this episode there are so many people still there. The finale is usually the week before Christmas. Are they planning a few double eliminations?  

I don't get it either. Last night's TC was Day 33. There are only 6 more days but there are 8 people left.

Edited December 1, 2016 by fishcakes

[simplyme]

5 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I don't get it either. Last night's TC was Day 33. There are only 6 more days but there are 8 people left.

Maybe they'll be locked in a cage with an alligator with the immunity necklace around its neck. The person who manages to get the necklace off the alligator and onto their own neck wins immunity. I can see that quickly whittling down the number of Survivors left.

Okay. Probably not.

[valandsend]

13 hours ago, ElleryAnne said:

Is it bad that I laughed when Jeff showed no problem handling Adam's more-hidden-than-usual idol?

I was too distracted by the thought of carrying those sharp-looking shells where he did. How was Adam able to walk normally to the tribal council?

[Rachel RSL]

15 minutes ago, simplyme said:

He mentioned her (repeatedly) in a couple pre-game print interviews I saw. This is the first time they've shown footage of him mentioning her actually on the show, though.

I'm so curious about this whole situation. How come he didn't know about his daughter until she was 4 yrs old? Did the babymama not know he was the dad? Was he living so far "off the grid" that she couldn't find him to tell him? Maybe it's none of my business but since he's mentioned not knowing about her in interviews, I don't too feel guilty for wondering what the whole story is there.

[blackwing]

35 minutes ago, zscore said:

Jay had immunity. David had to draw rock.

Ah, thanks for the correction.  Because of the double episode, I was getting the immunities mixed up.  

[fishcakes]

I was a little distressed by all the talk about who was and wasn't "fluffing" Will. I don't think they know what "fluffing" means.

Also LOL at Chris's hair. He looked like a six-year-old.

[ghoulina]

35 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

 

Ken has great abs and terrible strategy. How was ratting Will out a test of Will? That could have been a test of Ken by Will (that Ken would have failed), if Will actually had any strategy and wasn't busy stomping around proclaiming that he's a man because he shaved that one time, but as it played out it was just people being dumb and annoying. I refuse to be on anyone's side in that kerfuffle.

 

I think Ken was convinced that he'd go to Jay and Jay would be all, "What? No, we're not voting for you, Ken! We're going after David." And then he could prove Will was lying and trying to pull one over on them. But you just can't do that, even if you're pretty sure you're being fooled - which, I don't think he really had a reason to be. It's just going to cause everything to blow up in your face. I had to wonder if he thought he was closer to Jay than the show is portraying. Because both then, and at the RC, Ken seemed to be acting like Jay owed him some sort of allegiance or something. 

[simplyme]

So, thinking about Jay's choices for the reward, he handled that very well. Granted, he appeared to be in Teflon Jay mode. I doubt anyone was shocked by the Will pick. Sunday maybe was a bit more surprising, but I doubt it. But then when Jeff told him to pick one more, Jay had to either come up with a good reason to pick someone from outside his alliance or pick everyone but one person in his alliance.

So Jay picked Adam to "reward" Adam for being a good guy and not stealing anyone's visit. This works to mend fences with Adam and dodge the pitfalls of picking anyone else. It also means Adam doesn't get desperate and renege on his promise not to use the advantage because he's going on the reward. Total win.

Just now, fishcakes said:

I was a little distressed by all the talk about who was and wasn't "fluffing" Will. I don't think they know what "fluffing" means.

Inconceivable!

Also, I'm so relieved I wasn't the only one who thought that conversation sounded unfortunately, um, adult.

[Jalyn]

The reason that Ken's move makes no sense is that, either way, he's safe. If Will's lying, then they are really voting for David. (And, as far as Ken knows, they can't do anything about it. Adam's idol was a complete surprise to him.) If he's telling the truth, it doesn't matter that the "other side" is voting for Ken because he has the numbers. 

And, yes, if Jess didn't call him a blockhead for doing it, she's much nicer than I would be in her place. 

[mishap]

I hate the loved ones episode.   The only ones I feel who have a reason to get so emotional over it, are the ones who get to see a spouse, or someone who is part of their daily lives.  So for a 30 or 40-something to see a sibling, or a parent, seems kind over over blown.  Like they've never gone a month without seeing them?  Even if they are used to seeing them more often, they shouldn't be that distraught.  Honestly, if I could trade a visit from a loved one for a hot shower, I'd do it.  I love my family and friends, but I think at that point, I would be missing the shower more.  lol 

And Jessica looked like she'd been upset and on the verge of tears since she got voted off.  Most of the jurors come out with a smile, no matter the circumstances of how they got voted off.   I think they realize  pretty quickly, it's a game, and they are still a part of it.  I understand being disappointed,  but they still have a say in the game and now they get to eat food, shower, wear clean clothes and I would imagine get to spend time relaxing and enjoying the area. 

I guess Jessica bugged me because most seem to get over it, and she came out looking like we are still supposed to care that she had to pick a rock.    Like her demise in the came was somehow less fair than anyone else. Meh --  it's just part of the game.  She decided to take the chance, just like everyone else. 

Ken played terribly.  What he did made no sense. 

If I was at a tribal like that, I would have wanted to say to just vote out Will.  I don't like anyone who thinks they have control.  I know it's easy to say, sitting here at my computer, and probably wouldn't have been smart game play, but I really wish someone could have spoken up and suggested they just vote out Will.  Don't let him have all that power.  But...looks like that will be addressed next week. 

[cherrypj]

How 'bout this theory: Ken and Will worked together to "test Will." Maybe someone saw them talking, and they needed to cover their tracks. So they both agree that Ken would "out" Will to Zeke, Jay, Sunday, Bret. They do. It works. Ken even walks away--his job is done.

How else to explain why Will still voted for Zeke?

[Rachel RSL]

I'm assuming that the rest of Ken's alliance swooped in to do damage control and we just weren't shown it.  At that point, Will just wanted people to respect his authoritah and David seems like he'd be able to kiss ass better than Zeke.

[SlackerInc]

My notes as I watched:

What happened to loved ones joining the challenge?

Shouldn't they go under the post on their backs, to avoid eating sand and better bend their bodies around it?

Adam dealt with his advantage pretty well. He curried favor by saying he wouldn't use it, and then sort of indirectly got the benefit of it by Jay taking him and his brother on the reward; then he got more credit from Jay for giving away the advantage--even though the reality of it is almost more like passing on some ancient cursed talisman that came from a weird little Chinese curio shop in an '80s movie.

They're doing too many endurance challenges this season.

Jeff surprised me by screwing up his verbiage after the immunity challenge--and he's usually so consistent. He stated that all of them would see their dreams crashed to a halt, other than Adam.

I had been part of the chorus sticking up for Ken, but he just completely blew his reputation with me and I'm sure with a lot of other people. What a ridiculous, emotional, idiotic reaction. I wish Ken could get sent home, yet Hannah and David would still somehow be in a power position.

Still not clear if Hannah has a good nose for knowing when she's being targeted, or if she is just always paranoid and happened to be right a couple weeks in a row.

Interesting that the way Jeff read the votes does not reveal whether Will flipped or Adam needed to play his idol.  (Then, of course, in the tag we see that the former was true.)

[Runningwild]

14 hours ago, NYGirl said:

Also Rupert!  Remember how he yelled at Jonny FairPlay asking who put his name down?

Thanks for the laugh! I love remembering Rupert acting all indignant. 

[TheFinalRose]

   Now that Figgy and Taylor are gone I am really enjoying this season. I think it's a good example of why having an all original cast without any former players makes a better season. No Ozzy or Rob to chill everyone's ambition or to have undue influence.  

Quote

I hate the loved ones episode.   The only ones I feel who have a reason to get so emotional over it, are the ones who get to see a spouse, or someone who is part of their daily lives.  So for a 30 or 40-something to see a sibling, or a parent, seems kind over over blown.  Like they've never gone a month without seeing them?  Even if they are used to seeing them more often, they shouldn't be that distraught.  Honestly, if I could trade a visit from a loved one for a hot shower, I'd do it.  I love my family and friends, but I think at that point, I would be missing the shower more.  lol 

 

Yes, I totally agree with this. And I don't need Jeff to narrate each player's state of obvious emotion to me either, thus drawing out a terribly boring incident longer than it needs to be. 

 

Quote

And Jessica looked like she'd been upset and on the verge of tears since she got voted off.  Most of the jurors come out with a smile, no matter the circumstances of how they got voted off. 

 

What a mope. I felt sorry for her at first, but not anymore. Suck it up Jessica.

 

2 hours ago, green said:

I don't think Adam playing the idol was bad gameplay at all.  After Ken blew things up totally for their alliance I think it was a wise move not to trust Will because even Will said his emotions wanted revenge so who knew if his game side would win out.  Zeke is a great manipulator too.  So better safe than sorry so I think Adam was smart to make the play.

 

I always admire a player that thinks beyond the hidden immunity idol box to use it to ensure that their side's pick gets voted out that night, and not necessarily only uses it to save one's self.  I cheered that Adam used it because it put the vote in his hands and not in Will's grubby little ones. (And I call them grubby because Will is always so dirty.) And I hate the predictable emotions of the loved ones visit but Adam got to me last night, truly a heartbreaking situation for him. I think about how hard it must have been to go, but then also believe them that his participation was something good for their family during such dark days. Last night was a great episode for Adam.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I don't think I'd like Jay IRL but he's playing a hell of a game.  He was seen as the leader of the millennials yet he's still there.  He's a challenge beast yet he's still there.  He's been able to move pretty seamlessly from side to side but he's still there.  His name never comes up.  People seem to like him and listen to what he says.  Sunday wants to adopt him.  Will idolizes him.  (No pun intended.)  Adam will be eternally grateful to him.  He has friends on the jury.  

You gave me goosebumps by the time you got to Adam.  You tell quite a tale.  And it's true.  It's really damn true!

Jay's major move goes back to getting rid of Michaela.  He lost Taylor but it didn't really seem to matter.  In fact, as you say, he gained a solid jury vote.  He gained probably two when you think of Michelle.

I guess a lot of people out there hate displays of emotion.  What else can be said?  Some of us get it and some of us don't.   If you can't understand a guy crying about his mother back home dying of cancer then I think it's just true that some people hate displays of emotion under any circumstance.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[ljenkins782]

3 hours ago, uoflfan said:

Dear God, if Sunday wins this would be the worst season ever. I loathe her and would be okay with anyone BUT Sunday winning at this point. Ken and his brother were great eye candy! Sadly, Ken may not be the sharpest tool in the shed.

I also don't want to see Bret win for the same reason as Sunday. Those two just seem to be riding a middle of the pack wave without doing much. 

Quote

Interesting that the way Jeff read the votes does not reveal whether Will flipped or Adam needed to play his idol.  (Then, of course, in the tag we see that the former was true.)

That is interesting and unusual. I guess in this case, the drama of multiple negated Hannah votes outweighed the drama of the Zeke vote from Will. 

Quote

I don't think I'd like Jay IRL but he's playing a hell of a game.  He was seen as the leader of the millennials yet he's still there.  He's a challenge beast yet he's still there.  He's been able to move pretty seamlessly from side to side but he's still there.  His name never comes up.  People seem to like him and listen to what he says.  Sunday wants to adopt him.  Will idolizes him.  (No pun intended.)  Adam will be eternally grateful to him.  He has friends on the jury.  

Jay's return from the dead man walking position is pretty impressive. He lost his two closest allies in two consecutive votes, but now he's basically back in a leader or co-leader (with Zeke) position again. Those two were leading Sunday and Bret around by the nose and with Zeke gone, I think those two will go back to following Jay. I really think he could easily pull Will back in under his wing if he tried and could get Adam as well with some effort.

As for Jay's idol, we know that every single person there knows about it, but does Jay know that everyone knows? 

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I don't really like moves in the game that are solely intended to build a resume.  It feels hollow.  If you're playing the game with a purpose, your resume should take care of itself.  Getting rid of Zeke may have been the right move for Will, but his presentation was wrong from the very beginning.

 Not to mention, announcing your intentions so clearly to the group seems to negate any big move you'd make. Will really showed his age and immaturity in this episode. He was practically having a temper tantrum. 

Quote

I always admire a player that thinks beyond the hidden immunity idol box to use it to ensure that their side's pick gets voted out that night, and not necessarily only uses it to save one's self.  I cheered that Adam used it because it put the vote in his hands and not in Will's grubby little ones. (And I call them grubby because Will is always so dirty.) And I hate the predictable emotions of the loved ones visit but Adam got to me last night, truly a heartbreaking situation for him. I think about how hard it must have been to go, but then also believe them that his participation was something good for their family during such dark days. Last night was a great episode for Adam.

Ha, Will IS always so dirty. He looks like he never hits the water in any way. 

I respected Adam for not bringing up his mother's illness during the loved one's visit, he would have had a better shot at getting taken along if he had mentioned why he needed to see his brother so much. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by ljenkins782

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, green said:

I don't think Adam playing the idol was bad gameplay at all.  After Ken blew things up totally for their alliance I think it was a wise move not to trust Will because even Will said his emotions wanted revenge so who knew if his game side would win out.  Zeke is a great manipulator too.  So better safe than sorry so I think Adam was smart to make the play.

I completely agree!!!!  Saying it is a bad move is just a 'hindsight is 20/20' opinion that can only be held with the benefit of being on the other side of it.  The opinion can only be held retroactively, so it's kind of moot.   Is there any way that it's not?   How could Adam know that Will had flipped when he stomped around all indignantly?   I still didn't even notice Will had flipped until people here posted about it.  Sorry Will.  

Zeke went from being my favourite to the Grinch-like editors pressing their fingers together and releasing his villainous side for his last two episodes.  They're such odd storytellers.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I guess I suck at reading editing, because I was in suspense all the way through tribal council. I actually thought the editors did a really good job with this episode.

I completely agree. I thought Zeke was gonna go, and then Ken, and then Hannah, and then Will. LOL! I think the editing has been fabulous all season. They've found a way to make it unpredictable who will go almost every TC, but at the same time the outcome never comes out of nowhere. Plus I feel the editing is showing a few different possible winners and doing a good job of showing how a few different people could potentially win, which I love.

12 hours ago, Mabdul Doobakus said:

I liked Ken a lot until tonight.

I always expected Ken to turn out to be this way (as @KimberStormer did as well), so I wasn't really surprised. And hey, he's still super pretty, so at least we have that!

12 hours ago, Rowan said:

Even if I don't care for Jay most of the time, I can appreciate his ability to wriggle out of the hot seat. 

I have a different perspective on Jay than the majority. To me Jay just seems lucky. I think he's still there because the others have (oftentimes foolishly) decided to turn on their alliance mates a bunch. Although I will give him that he has won challenges and that will likely be what keeps him around until the end. But challenges mean nothing to me, so I'm meh on Jay's game.

10 hours ago, waving feather said:

Jay mentioned in one of his confessionals that Will gets too ahead of himself sometimes. So true. Youth. (Or immaturity).

Jay might what to look at himself and realize he does the same thing. He got real high and mighty about his Cool Kids alliance too and look how that turned out. Same thing happened in this ep, he was getting all big and bad about his new five person alliance and look, one of them is now gone.

9 hours ago, Dewey Decimate said:

I might be the only one, but I don't find Will to be notably more immature then many other previous Survivors.

Same. Honestly he doesn't even come off immaturely to me considering he is pretty much still a boy. 

7 hours ago, Sugar said:

I don't think Adam is selfish or wrong to have signed up for the show.

I agree.

2 hours ago, DallasGypsy said:

Ken has a daughter?  This is the first time that he mentioned it?  

I didn't know about it. I'm pretty sure it's never been mentioned on the show, which is why I was sure Ken was going to get booted.

Quote

So Sunday's first inclination is to throw out Hannah's name as the target? The only other woman remaining, now that her arch-nemesis Jessica is gone? Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

That was my first thought as well. Sunday seems to be playing a 'I will be the last woman standing' game, which I despise.

Quote

Last night's TC was Day 33. There are only 6 more days but there are 8 people left.

Taking my reply to the speculation thread.

Edited December 1, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Boilergal]

It sounded like Will's mom had some kind or Irish accent or something.

Will's mommy must have given him some sort you are The. Most. Awesome. Snowflake. Evah speech to get him to put on his big boy pants and want to make BIG MOVES.  THE BIGGEST!!!

Could you imagine being in a relationship with Ken where he thinks it's acceptable to "test" people?  Every question would feel like a trap.

I loved the interaction between Jay and Adam - it seemed very genuine

I hate the family episode - I could see the crying from parents or spouses - they walk out and see their loved one emaciated and filthy it would be a disturbing shock.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Oh gosh, yes. Every season there are plenty of people who are all - "ME?? Why are they mentioning MY name?? The nerve!" It's par for the course with Survivor. 

It comes off as indignant, but for people like Ken, and a lot of others, like Michaela, they're just shocked that they didn't calculate or see the game properly.  A lot of it is shame.  It just comes off as indignation or anger, and I don't personally begrudge the players that.  The game continues to be hard every single season.  The factors are too variable.  I totally get why everyone freaks out when their name is floated.  I think / assume a lot of the players' goals is for that too never happen, and once it does, it's like a house of cards falling.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[iMonrey]

Quote

The editing shows Ken a lot, so I don't really agree with the analogy.

Ken doesn't really get many talking heads, though. That tells me he's either not in the final three or that he simply doesn't have anything interesting to say. If Jessica hadn't given him the Legacy advantage he probably wouldn't have gotten a talking head in this episode either.

Ken has been butt-hurt since Day 1 that people aren't falling at his feet to worship him. He seems to have come into this thinking his mad outdoor skills would make him the natural leader, and he doesn't really seem to understand how the game works. I've yet to see him make one strategic move beyond agreeing to do whatever David says. 

If Will says Ken is an arrogant prick I'm inclined to take him at his word, since Will has spent far more actual time with Ken than anyone just watching him on TV. The way he seemed to expect Jay to pick him for the reward speaks to his sense of entitlement. What on earth made him think Jay would choose him? He's never been in an alliance with Jay.

I don't think I've ever even seen Ken smile. When's the last time any of the other contestants has said how nice Ken is? The only person I've seen him be "nice" to is Hannah and that's probably just because she's giving him the attention and adoration he wants. I never believed Ken would have aligned himself with David and Jessica if he had any other options.

Quote

Ken has a daughter?  This is the first time that he mentioned it?

Ken found out he had a daughter after the fact. It's why he moved back to the US after living "off the grid" in Hawaii. Make of that what you will.

[DEL901]

Did the "strategy" on the reward challenge bug anyone else?  Ken had a big lead.  He goes under that log on his belly and gets stuck, yet everyone else followed like sheep.  One of the family members "helpfully" yelled out, "use your legs".  Well, when they are on their bellies like that they can't.  You go under on your back.  You can still use your arms to pull yourself or dig out additional sand if you get stuck AND you have the use of your legs to push.

[eskimo]

I wonder if Ken 'tests' whether a window is open, or the glass is just very clean, by throwing a brick through it?

Edited December 1, 2016 by eskimo
typo

[ItsJessMe]

43 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Ha, Will IS always so dirty. He looks like he never hits the water in any way.

Seriously!  And Hannah too.  Her face, from her hairline to halfway through her cheek, is always caked with dirt.  Everyone else looks grubby but like they wash.  Hannah and Will are just filthy.

[SlackerInc]

28 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Did the "strategy" on the reward challenge bug anyone else?  Ken had a big lead.  He goes under that log on his belly and gets stuck, yet everyone else followed like sheep.  One of the family members "helpfully" yelled out, "use your legs".  Well, when they are on their bellies like that they can't.  You go under on your back.  You can still use your arms to pull yourself or dig out additional sand if you get stuck AND you have the use of your legs to push.

Yes, this, and you bend your body the way it is naturally hinged to bend, and you don't have to plow your face through the sand!  Crazy that no one saw this.

25 minutes ago, eskimo said:

I wonder if Ken 'tests' whether a window is open, or the glass is just very clean, by throwing a brick through it?

LMAO!

[Sugar]

57 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

When's the last time any of the other contestants has said how nice Ken is? The only person I've seen him be "nice" to is Hannah and that's probably just because she's giving him the attention and adoration he wants. I never believed Ken would have aligned himself with David and Jessica if he had any other options.

Chris, in an interview after he was voted out, said that Ken was exceedingly nice, and that he really is a kind and genuine person. Let me find a quote...

Chris: Ken’s an enigma. He’s a puzzle to me. He’s a super, super nice guy. Maybe that’s what throws people off, is that he’s so nice. But sometimes he’s maybe not aware of what he’s droning on about: the moonlight, the lavender around his shower, that kind of stuff…"

Wigler: The lavender around his shower? What does that mean?

Chris: I don’t know. There’s like purple lavender around his shower in Hawaii, or something. There was lots of poetic talk. Sometimes people were like, “What is he talking about?” But Ken’s a super nice guy at the same time, and he’s this massive, ripped-up guy, good-looking. Maybe that combination didn’t work at the time, but he’s just too nice a guy not to like him.

 

I'm just pissed because I really expected Ken to have this stealth strategy that would be under the radar the whole game, and then he'd have some brilliant moment where he'd pull a key move and everyone would be in awe of Ken, the Survivor Strategist. But alas...I think I gave him too much credit.

[Rachel RSL]

Ha! Droning on about things like moonlight and lavender is exactly how I pictured Ken's personality. I glanced at his Twitter account the other day (I shall stalk it more thoroughly at a later date) and I noticed that he posted a meme about how he wished the "man cave" would disappear and the "study" would come back in style because books are awesome. Or words to that effect. He's definitely a poetic soul.

[Wandering Snark]

3 hours ago, valandsend said:

I was too distracted by the thought of carrying those sharp-looking shells where he did. How was Adam able to walk normally to the tribal council?

I would have laughed and been impressed if he'd have gone all Mel Brooks on us... "Jeff? Excuse me while I whip this out..."

Edited December 1, 2016 by Wandering Snark

[valandsend]

6 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I noticed that he posted a meme about how he wished the "man cave" would disappear and the "study" would come back in style because books are awesome. Or words to that effect. He's definitely a poetic soul.

Don't you just love books? They're so decorative!

[eskimo]

I really hope Adam did get to see his mom one more time, but if he did it was by the skin of his teeth.  Even if they leave Ponderosa the morning following FTC, the travel time back makes it a very close call.  I am glad though that Adams brother was able to let her know he made it far enough to get a family visit, that he still had a HII and allies, and he seemed to be bonding with Jay (as far as his brother witnessed).  That probably made her very happy.  

I don't really mind people getting emotional during the family visits.  I imagine the physical, emotional, and mental strain puts everything into perspective, and other peoples opinions of how you express that falls completely off the list and hits the ground like a safe.  Everyone is different so if you want to cry do it, and if you don't, then don't.                                                                                                                                                                                                                       My issue is with how long the show takes to display it all.  I'm more of a 'save-your-applause-to-the-end' type person.  So instead of 'Here's person #1's loved one' followed by a short jog out, long hugs, emotion and a question for each, I would prefer 'Person #1, your loved one (name) is here.  Person #2, your loved one (name) is here'....ect.  They come out when their name is called and the next one is on their way even before the first one gets to their family member.  Then they can all hug, cry and have a quick catch up simultaneously.  Much faster.  Then we have time to watch the winners at the reward.  But that's just my opinion.  ;)

[How Bout That]

Quote

Boy, there are lots of people here who love a pretty man.

Yes. Just like so many loved Boston Rob even though he was a self-described moron.

I'll be happy to never see him again.

[Wandering Snark]

They always draw out the introductions of the loved ones so each person starts freaking out about the impending reveal of their loved one and it builds with each person crying and hugging their loved one... it's all for the drama.

And re: Adam's mother. The whole "we've stopped the treatments and she's feeling better." thing is a mixed blessing... it just means they've gone from fighting the cancer to "managing the pain" which is the final step. My dad hit that point and it was a few weeks later he was gone...

Edited December 1, 2016 by Wandering Snark

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

As for Jay's idol, we know that every single person there knows about it, but does Jay know that everyone knows?  

I don't think Jay has a clue yet that everyone knows, and that his buddy Will is the one who spilled to Zeke, who spilled to everyone else.

I'm actually surprised that Sunday hasn't told Jay that they all know about the idol.

[SlackerInc]

16 hours ago, princelina said:

I think there have been a lot - I don't have the good memory for seasons/episodes/contestants that some of you do, but I know it's been bitched about here many times :)

Yes, like you I don't remember specifics so much, but there have definitely been many times that people have heard they were being targeted and they went apeshit.  Maybe if I were in that position, I'd do the same but I hope not.  I mean, did these people ever play sports?  Were they offended when someone threw the ball at them in dodgeball, or the pitcher tried to pick them off at first base?

15 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I know Ken is popular with the fans but I've always seen him as a personality deprived, humorless cipher and tonight he showed he has no game and no strategy whatsoever. What an idiot move to make.

You're right, and I feel chagrined at having defended him in the past.  But I don't think he's so popular any more.  He completely lost my support, and a lot of other people's too, I have to think.

14 hours ago, Rowan said:

Damn, Hannah. I want to like you, but declaring you're the one probably going home every five minutes prevents me. 

It's funny how right now, it's unclear whether she is just paranoid and happens to have been right a couple times, or is actually especially perspicacious.  We would need to see her talking about being the target and being wrong to go with "paranoid".  OTOH, maybe they wouldn't show it--so it might have to come from others' postgame interviews.  Whatever the case, I like Hannah.

12 hours ago, PerfidiousAmber said:

I may have to go back and rewatch but I am boggled as to how Will retained (or seemed to retain) his standing in the Zeke alliance after being outed by Ken on his flip.  Did his "I just want it to be seen that I can make a big move" defense really mollify them as much as it seemed to do?

I think it was just pure numbers.  They needed him back or they were in the minority.  Which I suspect Will understood, and that's why he didn't flip back.  Basically, if he went back he would cement his place on the bottom of that alliance, and would have burned his bridges with future jurors on both sides of the alliance.

12 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

Will is finally becoming entertaining to me. His talking heads (which he had very few of prior to this episode) made me laugh so hard because he was like this enormous overgrown baby with that creepy deep voice yelling and throwing tantrums about nobody respecting his so-far pretty much nonexistent game.

I have a sixteen year old son who seems to artificially make his voice lower in public.  I wonder if this is what the deal is with Will, that he's so obsessed with being seen as a "man" that he purposely lowers his voice in pursuit of that goal.

[pamplemousse]

I wasn't surprised that Ken immediately grabbed Jay to ask him if Will was telling the truth. I remember from a few eps back (and also unaired clips) that Ken and Jay hung out quite a bit out in the ocean fishing and bonding, and I remember Ken saying that he really liked Jay (in the unaired clip, he said Jay reminded him of himself ten years ago) and felt like they had a very close connection (I don't think Ken felt as much of that with Will). IMO the dumbest thing about Ken is that he trusted Jay and while I do not agree that Ken is arrogant in general or overall, I think he's naive bordering on arrogant for thinking that his relationship with Jay is separate (and more important to Jay) than Jay's loyalty to being part of Zeke's crew for the time being.

When Ken walked away from the situation, imo he seemed disgusted and defeated to see that Jay went right over to Zeke and told him everything. I think he was also likely feeling frustrated and defeated in himself for having trusted Jay and thinking they had some sort of genuine, special connection. Because probably everyone on that island thinks they have a genuine, special connection with Jay and they'd all be wrong when it comes right down to it.

I agree with whoever stated that Jay has been mostly lucky. I won't discount that Jay really has a way with people.

[TheFinalRose]

Quote

I have a different perspective on Jay than the majority. To me Jay just seems lucky. I think he's still there because the others have (oftentimes foolishly) decided to turn on their alliance mates a bunch.

 

Jay was lucky in that his alliance was decimated and he then became a useful vote to forward others' ambitions and was temporarily not the primary target. He has a lot of friends on the jury now and someone like David ought to put the brakes on using Jay anymore and get rid of him if he wants to credit himself as a major player. If not, Jay is in a very good position but not some kind of master contestant. 

That being said, I have always liked Jay. He has a Harry Styles air to him.  And Harry is a good kid and I think Jay is too.

 

Quote

I guess a lot of people out there hate displays of emotion.  What else can be said?  Some of us get it and some of us don't.   If you can't understand a guy crying about his mother back home dying of cancer then I think it's just true that some people hate displays of emotion under any circumstance.

 

I do hate the Survivor loved ones displays of emotion; those circumstances have always been somewhat dull television to me, as a viewer. But I could definitely "get" the pure human heartbreak that Adam was going through last night, which was worlds apart from Sunday crying because she missed her husband. 

[Special K]

I haven't been posting too much this season, not because I haven't been watching or enjoying it (great season!), but because by the time I come here, everything piquant, wise, and funny has already been said by you lot.

The one thing that stuck out on this loved ones visit was that every pair had some "you're my hero!" nonsense.  Did TPTB get each twosome together and say, "ok, you two need to decide who is who's hero." Is it always this blatant?

None of my family members is my hero and I'm quite sure I'm not any of their hero either.  Is this a new thing? Having heroes in your family?  It used to be like Martin Luther King Jr. was your hero.

And it's been said before, but if Sunday (Sundae?) wins, I will plotz.  I just can't with her and her stupid ruffled skirted bikini.  Who brings a bathing suit like that on Survivor (and before you jump all over me about how the producers pick their clothes:  I know!)

Whoever said Will was summoning Neptune from the Underworld in his TH had me laughing.  I think it was laurakaye.  Bravo.

Ken.  Sigh.  You big dope.  You can come tell me about the lavender around your shower anytime.

And, finally, early on I thought that Jay looked like he could be cast as a villian on Game of Thrones, and I still stand by that.  I mean that in a good way. Kind of.

I find myself hoping David will win, skinny arms and all (Tom Robbins reference for those of you in Ken's "study"), but would be fine if Jay or Adam wins.