S08.E01: It's Worse Than We Thought

[laurakaye]

37 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But I tend to think that Logan would never ask that - because he's the type to be considerate and selfless. I bet part of why they AREN'T too keen on Tony is because he had the audacity to ask for a wedding so close on the heels of another. 

I don't think Logan would ask for anything either...I only meant that when he announces his engagement, everyone's going to go nuts like they did for Maddie, whereas Mykelti got stunned looks and crickets.  Of course, this is mostly because she's been dating the guy for 5 months.  To Mykelti,  however, it could very easily be seen as favoritism for Janelle's kids over her...which is also true.

[Wings]

I agree with all that has been said.  Putting the wedding of Mckelti and Tony aside for a moment.  Mckelti wants out and out now.  I think that is driving her the most.  She is looking for security and someone who loves her exclusively.  She all but said that in her statement that she feels safe with Tony and he won't hurt her (emotionally).  All the kids see and feel the pain when their mom is having issues with Kody. 

Sibling rivalry is common but in this family you also have rivalry between the micro families.  Does dad love another mother more than mine, does he love his favorite wife's kids more, who is the favorite wife now and does that mean he likes her kids best now, kids see and hear everything. 

Logan and Maddie probably escaped much of this angst being the first borns and clearly favored. Kody spent much more time with them and their mother is a rock. 

I don't remember If any of the kids have said they want a plural marriage, I don't remember any.  No wonder.  I have watched from the beginning but only sporadically in the last several seasons. It moves sooooo slowly with  conversations on a repeat loop. So Mckelti wanted an August wedding more because she wanted out and to have sex sooner than later. There was an element of do you love me enough to give me what I want in there, too.  It was more about Kody's love than Maddie.  Do you love me enough to give me what I want, too. 

She will benefit from this marriage if she holds off on kids.  Tony is her ticket out.  

What is Aspyn doing now? I need a reminder. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by wings707

[JoannKB]

Quote

"you're not the ones getting married....it's us", he screams gross all around. If you want to marry her, and it's YOU TWO who are getting married, make it happen kid. 

Exactly. You only get to say this if you are paying for your own wedding. You can't simultaneously ask for money to pay for your wedding and say that you get the final say about all of the decisions, like when the wedding is. I didn't see either of them say that they would pay for their own wedding in order to be able to have the wedding they want.

[Broken Ox]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I have to say, I'm kind of with Jenelle on Mykelti waiting until they're done with Maddie's wedding to start planning hers. That is, if she wants the help/money/etc. That's just asking a lot, to plan two weddings back to back essentially. But if she just wants to elope or go to the justice of the peace, have at it!

Exactly. Go to the JP, and if (IF) you're still married on your one year anniversary, we'll throw you a hell of a party. 

[Wings]

Tony and Mykelti may be getting flack here for a scene TLC staged, it sure looked fake to me.  Kody and Christine are doing some damage control on Twitter. 

[AZChristian]

If the scene was staged and Kody and Christine are offended by that . . . maybe they should develop some scruples and quit pimping out their families (including kids) to pay for a lifestyle they can't pay for on their own "skills."

[Tabbygirl521]

Am finally watching this. Tony = yikes!! I feel Kody and Christine's pain. Too young, too goofy. I won't say more (yet) because he is just a kid but egad.

Teen hormones are amazing, aren't they? Not too discriminating sometimes. I mean, it is hard to imagine Mykelti panting for this. YIKES  

I would like to know the story behind Tony's joining a church (any church) at 17. Is it very different from his parents' beliefs? Was he searching for connections, or a "new" family? Or was it deeper? 

Kody drives me nuts but I often think he is a really good dad. 

[DeeReynolds]

One thing that surprised me this episode was the talk about Tony being a member of the LDS church and that like Maddie, Mykelti wanted to join but was rejected. I cannot imagine wanting to join a church congregation and not being able to not based on my own merits or actions, but because of the choices my parents made. Maddie and Mykelti didn't choose to be born into a polygamist family, nor did they consent for their lives to be made public and put on tv. They were minors at the time. I suppose they do have a choice now about being filmed and they do choose to continue their association with their family. Good for them for not bowing to the church and cutting off their own family just to become a member of an (IMO) oppressive and controlling religious sect. 

It would be very hard to believe the same way and want to join a church but to be told that essentially, you aren't worthy. And I believe to LDS members, getting married in the temple is super important. I feel bad that it isn't an option for them based on choices that Kodouche made whenever they went public however many years ago. 

[Tabbygirl521]

I liked seeing Kody in his tight red shirt. Now we know he is an "outie."

Why did Tony ask for Kody's blessing when he wasn't willing to accept the answer or conditions?

[Kohola3]

Quote

Why did Tony ask for Kody's blessing when he wasn't willing to accept the answer or conditions?

Got him that 15 minutes of fame that morons seem to crave.

[3girlsforus]

5 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I liked seeing Kody in his tight red shirt. Now we know he is an "outie."

Why did Tony ask for Kody's blessing when he wasn't willing to accept the answer or conditions?

I thought Mykelti told him he had to

[trimthatfat]

If Mykelti wants attention, this isn't the way. I feel so much secondhand embarrassment for her. Does she really love this guy or is she just eager to get laid and be on her own? Does she really think this is the best she can get? 

[Wings]

11 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

If the scene was staged and Kody and Christine are offended by that . . . maybe they should develop some scruples and quit pimping out their families (including kids) to pay for a lifestyle they can't pay for on their own "skills."

It appeared they feel badly for Tony since he was getting a lot of hate for his comment about financing their house. He could not say the scene was staged so he claimed Tony was joking.  That just got more outrage because it did not read as a joke.  Obviously he could not talk about production.  

TLC offered them the show and they accepted, years ago now.  Hard to know how much their lifestyle is 100% their choosing and how much is TLC. 

I watch all reality tv knowing there is manipulation and try to focus on what you can see is real. On this episode it was definitely Meri and Kody but we didn't see enough of that.  And, of course all the fun that was had in the wedding stuff which bored me to tears. 

[MrSmith]

16 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I thought Mykelti told him he had to

Yeah, it was Mykelti's idea. I'm not sure why either of them bothered with it since neither of them wants to abide by any outcome that disagrees with their childish desires, anyway. I suppose the only reason is feeling you're bound to do it or face some serious parental wrath. And if that's the case, I really feel badly for Mykelti for it.

[gonecrackers]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

My younger sisters are all Christians who don't believe in sex before marriage. They got married at the ages of 29, 24, and 23. They were all virgins when they got married and my youngest sister was with her boyfriend for SIX years before they got married. If it's important to you, you make it work. My sisters all had college degrees and careers established before getting married, hence the waiting. I guess that was more important than sex. 

Exactly. Maybe the parents should encourage them all to get their degrees & careers at least somewhat established, THEN they will help as much as possible with the wedding costs when that time is right & they are really ready. They have the rest of their lives to have sex. They need to get their education & personal selves established right now, while young & unencumbered.

I'm concerned they'll end up stuck someday, but I guess 'divorce is not an option' Kody isn't concerned... even though 2 of his wives are divorced. Go figure.

[3girlsforus]

24 minutes ago, DeeReynolds said:

One thing that surprised me this episode was the talk about Tony being a member of the LDS church and that like Maddie, Mykelti wanted to join but was rejected. I cannot imagine wanting to join a church congregation and not being able to not based on my own merits or actions, but because of the choices my parents made. Maddie and Mykelti didn't choose to be born into a polygamist family, nor did they consent for their lives to be made public and put on tv. They were minors at the time. I suppose they do have a choice now about being filmed and they do choose to continue their association with their family. Good for them for not bowing to the church and cutting off their own family just to become a member of an (IMO) oppressive and controlling religious sect. 

It would be very hard to believe the same way and want to join a church but to be told that essentially, you aren't worthy. And I believe to LDS members, getting married in the temple is super important. I feel bad that it isn't an option for them based on choices that Kodouche made whenever they went public however many years ago. 

I'm curious about this. Do we have outside confirmation that this is the case? After all, these are people who still are trying to convince us that they "escaped" from Utah when they moved to Vegas. It would be awful to have a church you want to be a part of turn you away for your parents beliefs and lifestyle. Certainly that could have happened here. But I'm wondering if it was more subtle than that. I can see them being turned down for membership if they refuse to say that they don't believe in polygamy as part of the religion. That is a huge deal now for the LDS as they try to distance themselves from the polygamist history of their sect. I would be different if they were told they couldn't join if they still associate with their parents, that would be awful. But I can see denouncing polygamy as it relates to the religion being necessary to join the church. After all, why would you want to be part of a religion where you don't believe in a major portion of the church. I see the view on polygamy in LDS being a much bigger deal than wanting to join and still wanting to drink caffeine. It would be like someone wanting to join a Catholic church but saying they aren't really sure about Jesus. 

Certainly they could have been turned away because they are Browns. It would be horrible and I hope that didn't happen to them. But I'm wondering if our only source for this info is the Browns themselves. They aren't really reliable when it comes to fairly evaluating their "discrimination'. 

[VedaPierce]

20 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Maddie was bugging me a little with her constant comments about her husband being redneck, and some of the cake and wedding ideas "too redneck". Caleb looks like an outdoor type of guy that probably likes to hunt and fish and would probably be perfectly happy living in a cabin in the woods some day so she needs to lay off of those comments. And since when did she become so high and mighty? Maddie, honey, you come from a family of grifters so settle yourself down. 

What the hell does she think she is? She comes from a family like the Simpsons' hillbillies. No offense to hillbillies (TM Vickie Gunvalson)

[DakotaJustice]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

I agree with all that has been said.  Putting the wedding of Mckelti and Tony aside for a moment.  Mckelti wants out and out now.  I think that is driving her the most.  She is looking for security and someone who loves her exclusively.  She all but said that in her statement that she feels safe with Tony and he won't hurt her (emotionally).  All the kids see and feel the pain when their mom is having issues with Kody. 

Why does she need a "ticket out"?  She was already out, living in St. George and working at Family Pawn.  She was already on her own.

[crgirl412]

1 minute ago, VedaPierce said:

What the hell does she think she is? She comes from a family like the Simpsons' hillbillies. No offense to hillbillies (TM Vickie Gunvalson)

Who was Vicki referring to when she said this? 

[VedaPierce]

18 hours ago, laurakaye said:

 

I know, right??  Angry Birds here.  I was super confused that they seemed to actually be dancing very close to the edge of the truth.

 

Toy Blast here. Only way I can deal with this dreck

[Wings]

11 minutes ago, DakotaJustice said:

Why does she need a "ticket out"?  She was already out, living in St. George and working at Family Pawn.  She was already on her own.

My post was not clear. I meant out with a husband to have love, financial support and not be alone when out! 

Edited November 29, 2016 by wings707

[VedaPierce]

11 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

Who was Vicki referring to when she said this? 

All of them fighting/getting thrown out of a dept store in Ireland. Then fighting on the bus back to the hotel. She said it in a talking head and I thought it was HI. LA. RIOUS. 

[Wings]

6 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Toy Blast here. Only way I can deal with this dreck

Spider solitaire for me.  It is more interesting to the point I missed Tony telling Kody to take out a loan!  I was and am done with the kids wanting to marry.  I was waiting for the Meri /Kody conversation that should not have been aired.  That was a bust, too, but better than other conversations. 

[LucyEth]

So many things to say here I could go on forever.  Where was Robin when they were picking out all of Maddie's wedding things?  I can't even begin with this Tony, so many things don't seem right there with him and Mykelti.  Yeah, he was not kidding about the loan thing.  If they want to get married so badly and their parents are telling them among other things they cannot financially do it, then go to city hall and get married.  Forget the wedding reception.  Truly was absolutely adorable during the flower girl discussion.  Meri, was ready to up and leave Kody and that family,  wouldn't surprise me that she offered to divorce Kody to make it easier for her to leave, not for Robin's kids.  I don't understand how she thinks she can do what she did, it falls through and now she wants Mariah and Kody to just forget it all, there is alot of healing  and repairing that needs to be done.   Best part a whole two hours with hardly any Robin and none of her kids.

[bichonblitz]

5 hours ago, tabloidlover said:

Watching the body language and side eye from FT during a talking head, I swear he is manipulating Mykelti and egging on her feeling of being less than Maddie.   His comment  "I think it would have been cool for Mykelti to see her dad want to make it happen for her when she wanted it to happen, instead of when he wanted it to happen and making it happen on his time."  DUDE!!  If you are man enough to ask for her hand in marriage, you should be man enough to "make it happen" for her!!!

Total manipulation, right?? I can see FT trying to alienate Mykelti from the entire family once they are married. I get a controlling vibe from him and felt like the whole time he was listening to Cody's requests he was thinking: keep talking old man, we're gonna do what we want, it doesn't matter what you say. Hope she's as feisty as they all say she is and stands her ground with him. 

[Nowhere]

15 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

I thought it was pretty revealing that Mykelti said she wanted to marry this guy because he makes her "feel safe," and he'll "always be there for her" and "support her."  In fact, the first thing she said was that "he won't hurt her."  She said this looking straight at her father.  I think it's pretty obvious that the girls grew up seeing their selfish father hurt and abandon their always-present mothers, and they want the opposite of that.  But Kody being Kody, this went right over his head, and he made Tony promise to not discourage their kids against polygamy. 

I don't think that's what she was getting at because I honestly don't think she is smart enough to draw that connection in her head and then ballsy enough to look her dad in the eye while implying that he was neglectful in some way. Last season in one of her talking heads, Mykeltie said Tony has shown her a whole new world that she didn't know existed. Something crazy like that. She sounded like a cult member when she said it with her whispery voice and it made me think, "who the hell is this guy? David Koresh?" So, I think her little brain is trying to squeeze out lines that will make her sound like a big girl. She's just trying to convince them that she's in love so she's picking out things she's heard other people say. 

[ginger90]

She also said Tony "calms" her. Okay.

[Nowhere]

If the girl gets any calmer she may slip into a coma. 

[Tabbygirl521]

30 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Total manipulation, right?? I can see FT trying to alienate Mykelti from the entire family once they are married. I get a controlling vibe from him and felt like the whole time he was listening to Cody's requests he was thinking: keep talking old man, we're gonna do what we want, it doesn't matter what you say. Hope she's as feisty as they all say she is and stands her ground with him. 

In the preview for next week ("Kody Takes Responsibility"!), someone comments on how different Mykelti is around Tony. Subdued, etc. let us hope that doesn't mean suppressed. 

[Wings]

25 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

I don't think that's what she was getting at because I honestly don't think she is smart enough to draw that connection in her head and then ballsy enough to look her dad in the eye while implying that he was neglectful in some way. Last season in one of her talking heads, Mykeltie said Tony has shown her a whole new world that she didn't know existed. Something crazy like that. She sounded like a cult member when she said it with her whispery voice and it made me think, "who the hell is this guy? David Koresh?" So, I think her little brain is trying to squeeze out lines that will make her sound like a big girl. She's just trying to convince them that she's in love so she's picking out things she's heard other people say. 

YES!  Exactly.  'He makes me feel' safe is the catch phrase of the year and she tossed that in, too. 

[Nowhere]

And another thing, I don't think these Browns know what feisty is. I know feisty and Mykelti isn't that. What were Christine's reasons for describing her in that way? 

My feeling is that they live in a bubble and Mykelti may be the most colorful of the bunch but that doesn't mean she's living on the edge. Of course, the fact that she Is so eager to tap fat Kermit the Frog's ass makes me believe there may actually be a screw loose. 

[3girlsforus]

4 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

In the preview for next week ("Kody Takes Responsibility"!), someone comments on how different Mykelti is around Tony. Subdued, etc. let us hope that doesn't mean suppressed. 

I didnt catch the preview but I have to ask, it Kody Takes Responsibility really the title?  If they put together clips of all the times Kody took responsibility for something it will be the shortest episode in history.  

[OldWiseOne]

Quote

I thought Mykelti told him he had to

Quote

Yeah, it was Mykelti's idea. I'm not sure why either of them bothered with it since neither of them wants to abide by any outcome that disagrees with their childish desires, anyway. I suppose the only reason is feeling you're bound to do it or face some serious parental wrath. And if that's the case, I really feel badly for Mykelti for it.

I thought asking the father's permission was standard in the LDS church, as a recent convert is made sense to me that Tony would follow along.

[MrSmith]

1 minute ago, OldWiseOne said:

I thought asking the father's permission was standard in the LDS church, as a recent convert is made sense to me that Tony would follow along.

That might be true. I don't know. I only know that Tony said Mykelti wanted him to do that because "it's family tradition" or something like that. The thing I know for sure is Tony said Mykelti wanted him to do it.

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, DeeReynolds said:

 

One thing that surprised me this episode was the talk about Tony being a member of the LDS church and that like Maddie, Mykelti wanted to join but was rejected. I cannot imagine wanting to join a church congregation and not being able to not based on my own merits or actions, but because of the choices my parents made. Maddie and Mykelti didn't choose to be born into a polygamist family, nor did they consent for their lives to be made public and put on tv. They were minors at the time. I suppose they do have a choice now about being filmed and they do choose to continue their association with their family. Good for them for not bowing to the church and cutting off their own family just to become a member of an (IMO) oppressive and controlling religious sect. 

It would be very hard to believe the same way and want to join a church but to be told that essentially, you aren't worthy. And I believe to LDS members, getting married in the temple is super important. I feel bad that it isn't an option for them based on choices that Kodouche made whenever they went public however many years ago. 

 

I agree. I think it's super shitty to punish these people for something they had no control over. It really makes me have little respect for the LDS church. 

 

1 hour ago, DakotaJustice said:

Why does she need a "ticket out"?  She was already out, living in St. George and working at Family Pawn.  She was already on her own.

This is a good point. I really just think Mykelti is looking for male affection. It's been quite clear that Christine has to beg Kody to come see her kids. I bet Mykelti is just desperate for some love and attention and just jumped on the first dude that gave her any. 

 

15 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

And another thing, I don't think these Browns know what feisty is. I know feisty and Mykelti isn't that. What were Christine's reasons for describing her in that way?

Because she was the teen always getting yelled at for wearing tank tops that showed cleavage? 

[Wings]

They do the asking the father for his daughters hand on The Bachelor too.  It is an archaic tradition everywhere.  

[DakotaJustice]

25 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I didnt catch the preview but I have to ask, it Kody Takes Responsibility really the title?  If they put together clips of all the times Kody took responsibility for something it will be the shortest episode in history.  

Nah, they'd just keep showing flashbacks and flash forwards until they'd filled up 2 hours.

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, DakotaJustice said:

Why does she need a "ticket out"?  She was already out, living in St. George and working at Family Pawn.  She was already on her own.

I don't think that was 'out' as much as 'out with the supervision of their friends'. Maybe that's why they 'couldn't afford' to send her to Seattle, as there's no one to watch her there.

[Nowhere]

I think Mykelti is so pretty though, this weirdo couldn't possibly have been the first guy to show her attention. Plus, even though the family is large, she still had a father who lived with her. She being one of the oldest, I'm sure she got more attention than Truely will ever get and I still don't consider Kody absent from Truely's life. Some kids only see their fathers during the summer and still don't choose the slimiest guy on the planet. As weird and fucked up as this family situation is, I still don't see any real neglect or abandonment. There is no excuse for latching on to Tony. She's too pretty and sweet to settle for this kid. I just don't get it.

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

I don't think that's what she was getting at because I honestly don't think she is smart enough to draw that connection in her head and then ballsy enough to look her dad in the eye while implying that he was neglectful in some way. Last season in one of her talking heads, Mykeltie said Tony has shown her a whole new world that she didn't know existed. Something crazy like that. She sounded like a cult member when she said it with her whispery voice and it made me think, "who the hell is this guy? David Koresh?" So, I think her little brain is trying to squeeze out lines that will make her sound like a big girl. She's just trying to convince them that she's in love so she's picking out things she's heard other people say. 

I see what you mean, and I agree that she's not ballsy enough to call her father out so boldly, but I think at least subliminally, the girls are (or will be) looking for a husband who is there for them in a way that their father wasn't for them or their mother.

[Kohola3]

Quote

 It really makes me have little respect for the LDS church. 

Did you have any to begin with?  With the hidden underwear and the celestial planets?  You're more open minded than I am.

[DakotaJustice]

Just now, Nowhere said:

I think Mykelti is so pretty though, this weirdo couldn't possibly have been the first guy to show her attention. Plus, even though the family is large, she still had a father who lived with her. She being one of the oldest, I'm sure she got more attention than Truely will ever get and I still don't consider Kody absent from Truely's life. Some kids only see their fathers during the summer and still don't choose the slimiest guy on the planet. As weird and fucked up as this family situation is, I still don't see any real neglect or abandonment. There is no excuse for latching on to Tony. She's too pretty and sweet to settle for this kid. I just don't get it.

me too.  The first thing I thought is "she can do so much better..."

Even that John guy who turned out to be kind of a dick (from his limited time on the show - he appeared after they broke up, at the HS grad I think) was better than this guy.

[Tabbygirl521]

47 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I didnt catch the preview but I have to ask, it Kody Takes Responsibility really the title?  If they put together clips of all the times Kody took responsibility for something it will be the shortest episode in history.  

It is the title! Another clip showed him apparently telling Mariah that he may have played a part in Meri's being vulnerable to catfishing. 

[Normades]

33 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

I still don't see any real neglect or abandonment.

A parent can be right there in the same house with a child and still be neglectful and cause the child to feel abandonment.  Take it from someone who knows.  I imagine many of those kids feel neglect and abandonment.

[Wings]

44 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

I think Mykelti is so pretty though, this weirdo couldn't possibly have been the first guy to show her attention. Plus, even though the family is large, she still had a father who lived with her. She being one of the oldest, I'm sure she got more attention than Truely will ever get and I still don't consider Kody absent from Truely's life. Some kids only see their fathers during the summer and still don't choose the slimiest guy on the planet. As weird and fucked up as this family situation is, I still don't see any real neglect or abandonment. There is no excuse for latching on to Tony. She's too pretty and sweet to settle for this kid. I just don't get it.

Good points.    Occam's razor.  She is in love with him. 

29 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

It is the title! Another clip showed him apparently telling Mariah that he may have played a part in Meri's being vulnerable to catfishing. 

Oh good god, a clip show.  It better be good after we sat through that cake tasting plus  Kody and Christine saying "We don't know him" 500 fucking times.  

Edited November 29, 2016 by wings707

[laurakaye]

24 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

It is the title! Another clip showed him apparently telling Mariah that he may have played a part in Meri's being vulnerable to catfishing. 

He may have played a part??  MAY HAVE?!

What a freaking moron.

[tabloidlover]

4 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Good points.    Occam's razor.  She is in love with him. 

Oh good god, a clip show.  It better be good after we sat through that cake tasting after Kody and Christine said "We don't know him" 500 fucking times.  

They mentioned that they don't know him?? I must've missed that... <eye roll>

thank you for mentioning that as it drove me nuts as well - I was yelling at the tv "we get it!!!"

[Harperlee1]

Tony rubbed me the wrong way. I thought he was rude talking about the home equity loan for the wedding, then talking about how it was messed up for Kody to want the wedding on his time line vs Mykelti's, then talking crap about a wedding in their backyard and then saying he's not going to wait forever for Christine's approval. Just ugh. My mom always said we should date (but no sex! Lol) before settling into our forever relationship, and this is why. Would Mykelti be choosing this guy if she had more experience with different guys (that sounds bad!)? This reeks of not knowing what's out there (no offense to Tony) and, likely, wanting sex (but I always think that about these super religious kids that want to get married after a month).

[3girlsforus]

I think not knowing him was huge and not in the way we would normally think. Most of us would like to get to know the person our child dating through family dinners, maybe holidays etc. But as some people have pointed out, they did know him at least somewhat that way. For Christine, especially I think 'we don't know him' means he isn't known to them through the family wreath. He isn't connected to the people she considers acceptable. I know a few people have mentioned his ethnicity as a problem as well, and maybe it is, but I think the bigger problem is that he's an outsider. Caleb was known to them through family so they 'knew' him. I don't think the fact that Tony is a douche or that they've only been dating 5 months is their primary concern. 

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Did you have any to begin with?  With the hidden underwear and the celestial planets?  You're more open minded than I am.

LOL, I try to be. Do mainstream Mormons believe in celestial planets too? Or is it just FLDS?