S08.E01: It's Worse Than We Thought

[Nowhere]

38 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Not sure if this is the place for this, but I had a minor lightbulb moment watching the preview for next week concerning the fact that Meri and Janelle can barely stand to be in the same room together, let alone sit on the same couch.  Janelle keeps talking about how being vulnerable with Meri is basically her worst nightmare, and Meri seems to feel the same about Janelle.

I'm thinking that this HAS to go back to when Janelle divorced Meri's brother and ended up married to Kody.  I don't know if this issue has ever been covered on the show, and I think it may have been barely skimmed in their book.  But in addition to all the other emotional baggage everyone in this family carries, the fact that Janelle left Meri's brother for Meri's husband is all kinds of messed up.

I would be riveted to my television if the two of them would discuss how on earth this came to be in the first place.  If I recall, Janelle's mom had already taken up with Kody's dad, and Kody's dad was trying to hook Janelle up with one of Kody's brothers.  But Janelle wanted Kody.  WHY?  Why why why would she take up with her ex sister-in-law's husband?  This simply has to be at the heart of why these two cannot stand each other, even after 25+ years.

I'm usually team Janelle if I had to choose but this makes me feel terrible for Meri and now I wish she would downright beat Janelle's ass. I think you may be right about this and if that's the case then Meri has every reason to hate Janelle and Janelle is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's very weird that Janelle would feel comfortable in this situation and the fact that she was and is makes her seem sociopathic. Very odd.

[Wings]

I don't believe I am saying this.  I hope this season has more focus on Meri and Kody's relationship.  

I would also like Meri and Janelle to get to the meat of their very deep conflict.  Nancy is a lousy therapist.  They are no where near being able to sit next to each other on the couch.  More on that next week. 

I would like to know her credentials.  

I am not  interested in Mykelti and Tony's relationship at all.  

[Zahdii]

I'm pretty sure Janelle didn't dump Meri's brother so she could go after Kody.  There was a couple of years between the end of Janelle's first marriage and her marriage to Kody.  However, if Meri was harboring resentment over the divorce I doubt that a couple of years would have made a difference.  Meri's personality is very different from Janelle's.  Meri is driven by emotion, and Janelle seems to be much more pragmatic.

Still, Meri said in their book that she agreed to a polygamous marriage before she and Kody got married.  I think she was hoping that he'd change his mind and was gutted when he was searching for a new bride soon after their first wedding anniversary.  It didn't help that she eventually found out that Janelle was meeting Kody for secret lunches and 'pleading her case' for months before Meri realized that not only was Kody serious about getting another wife, but he was also in talks with Meri's former sister in law.  That's some major resentment building up, and Meri wasn't equipped to deal with it.  I doubt she could even talk to Kody about it, because Kody would just tell her that she agreed to this and if she loves him she'll shut up and let it happen. 

If Meri tried to talk to Janelle about her feelings, I can't imagine it would help.  Janelle would probably point out that Meri agreed to polygamy, and she should just deal with it.  Both women wanted Kody, and both expected the other to look at the situation they way they did.  Kody was no help because he was already in the mindset that his wishes trumped all others.

The later addition of Christine further illustrates the dynamic.  Meri was once again consumed by jealousy and resentment that she wasn't enough for her husband, but she couldn't bring herself to blame him, so she blamed the other woman.  Janelle shrugged and said "OK, it's polygamy.  It's what I signed up for, and at least Christine isn't a cold bitch like Meri.  Yeah Kody, go for it."

The addition of Robyn really messed everything up.  Janelle is still being pragmatic, and Christine is still thrilled with every tiny bit of attention that Kody gives her. 

But Robyn might be realizing that now that she's got everything she wanted, Kody, legal wife status, and a bonus TV show; she's still stuck with Kody.  I'm not sure if Robyn is as enamoured with him like she was before when he saved her from single motherhood living in impoverished conditions.

And we all know that Meri is over Kody.  I think that there are only two things holding Meri in place now.  She fears Mariah will disown her, and she's too lazy and afraid to go it alone.  Meri thought she had a way out with Sam.  He'd support her and with his money she'd buy Mariah away from Kody (and I think Mariah would have gone for it if Sam had been for real).

All of these sad people are stuck.  They don't want to do away with the perks of parading their dirty laundry on the small screen for the entertainment of the viewing public, but they don't like the downfalls of the situation and they're all too fragmented to form an exit plan, and too afraid to go back to working for a living.

[RazzleberryPie]

6 minutes ago, wings707 said:

 

I would also like Meri and Janelle to get to the meat of their very deep conflict.  Nancy is a lousy therapist.  

Meri hates and resents Janelle and doesn't want to resolve conflict. Meri is only happy if she things she is HBIC or has one up on the other women, and can't accept it when they don't defer to her. Janelle has tried to resolve but doesn't care anymore. Keeping peace is their best situation.

[Wings]

24 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Meri hates and resents Janelle and doesn't want to resolve conflict. Meri is only happy if she things she is HBIC or has one up on the other women, and can't accept it when they don't defer to her. Janelle has tried to resolve but doesn't care anymore. Keeping peace is their best situation.

Okay, that happens.  A good therapist can walk them through that with the goal of no reslution possible.  There is a peace that comes with that.  They need to say that out loud loud to each other with therapist present.  It takes the elephant out of the room.  It is surprising what can happen when the pressure of reconciliation is removed.  Not saying this will bring them together, it won't, it will bring relief in lifting the expectation. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by wings707

[MrSmith]

23 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Meri hates and resents Janelle and doesn't want to resolve conflict. Meri is only happy if she things she is HBIC or has one up on the other women, and can't accept it when they don't defer to her. Janelle has tried to resolve but doesn't care anymore. Keeping peace is their best situation.

I don't dispute that this may be the case. I haven't watched for a few seasons and am just getting caught back up this season now. Could you provide more information about this, please? How do you know (or why are you of the opinion of) the bolded parts? Thanks!

[gonecrackers]

52 minutes ago, Zahdii said:

I'm pretty sure Janelle didn't dump Meri's brother so she could go after Kody.  There was a couple of years between the end of Janelle's first marriage and her marriage to Kody.  However, if Meri was harboring resentment over the divorce I doubt that a couple of years would have made a difference.  Meri's personality is very different from Janelle's.  Meri is driven by emotion, and Janelle seems to be much more pragmatic.

Still, Meri said in their book that she agreed to a polygamous marriage before she and Kody got married.  I think she was hoping that he'd change his mind and was gutted when he was searching for a new bride soon after their first wedding anniversary.  It didn't help that she eventually found out that Janelle was meeting Kody for secret lunches and 'pleading her case' for months before Meri realized that not only was Kody serious about getting another wife, but he was also in talks with Meri's former sister in law.  That's some major resentment building up, and Meri wasn't equipped to deal with it.  I doubt she could even talk to Kody about it, because Kody would just tell her that she agreed to this and if she loves him she'll shut up and let it happen. 

If Meri tried to talk to Janelle about her feelings, I can't imagine it would help.  Janelle would probably point out that Meri agreed to polygamy, and she should just deal with it.  Both women wanted Kody, and both expected the other to look at the situation they way they did.  Kody was no help because he was already in the mindset that his wishes trumped all others.

The later addition of Christine further illustrates the dynamic.  Meri was once again consumed by jealousy and resentment that she wasn't enough for her husband, but she couldn't bring herself to blame him, so she blamed the other woman.  Janelle shrugged and said "OK, it's polygamy.  It's what I signed up for, and at least Christine isn't a cold bitch like Meri.  Yeah Kody, go for it."

The addition of Robyn really messed everything up.  Janelle is still being pragmatic, and Christine is still thrilled with every tiny bit of attention that Kody gives her. 

But Robyn might be realizing that now that she's got everything she wanted, Kody, legal wife status, and a bonus TV show; she's still stuck with Kody.  I'm not sure if Robyn is as enamoured with him like she was before when he saved her from single motherhood living in impoverished conditions.

And we all know that Meri is over Kody.  I think that there are only two things holding Meri in place now.  She fears Mariah will disown her, and she's too lazy and afraid to go it alone.  Meri thought she had a way out with Sam.  He'd support her and with his money she'd buy Mariah away from Kody (and I think Mariah would have gone for it if Sam had been for real).

All of these sad people are stuck.  They don't want to do away with the perks of parading their dirty laundry on the small screen for the entertainment of the viewing public, but they don't like the downfalls of the situation and they're all too fragmented to form an exit plan, and too afraid to go back to working for a living.

Since I haven't followed this family this is interesting insight for me. Janelle seems very calculated, if she was having secret lunches with Kody etc. Just marrying him in itself given who Meri was to her is really messed up. I question Janelle's perceived pragmatic ways & lack of much emotion. She struggles with her weight & looks adrenal stressed (there's a body type). This comes in large part from emotional stress. She's most likely stuffing it down, using food somewhat.

And from those who know, what is Christine's relationship with the other wives? I recall her complaining a bit & not being quite happy either, but has she had any direct issues with the other wives? (besides Robyn, who I do recall from a little watching she was open about being jealous)

[DakotaJustice]

Really, they're going to rehash the Meri/Janelle thing again, without really getting to the root of the cause?!?  *rolleyes*

I tend to agree with others to a certain point.  According to their book (as i recall, it's been awhile since I've read it), Meri didn't date anyone during school.  Kody was her first and only.  She was in love with him, and at the same time her self-esteem must have been (always has been) pretty low (probably all women in polygamy suffer from low self-esteem/value - that's why they're willing to settle for this type of misery IMO).  Kody had already gone on his LDS mission, then switched over to AUB along with his dad and mom (who probably just went along with it because that's what her husband wanted). 

Going to the AUB for guys, means implicitly that polygamy is going to be a factor.  Why join otherwise since that's the big difference between LDS and FLDS/AUB?  If you're not interested in polygamy, just stay with the LDS right?

I feel that Meri didn't feel she was going to find anyone else and so she made a tradeoff with Kody.  In exchange for being the first wife and being married to who was her ONLY BOYFRIEND, she would be open to having Kody take more wives.   She probably didn't think it was going to happen so soon after their marriage, and ESPECIALLY not with her former sister-in-law.  There's a photo of Kody and Meri on their wedding day, with Janelle.  I think Janelle was still married to Adam (Meri's brother) at the time of the wedding. 

I think that Meri just had stars in her eyes and she was going to be married to this cute guy (he was cute at the time, not MY taste but still, cute) and didn't consider the future, just the present.  That's pretty much been the Browns' modus operandi anyway - no saving for the future (except for the little bit Janelle managed to save while she was working for the State of Utah, which apparently was spent in the move and the first month of living in Vegas - so it couldn't have been that much) just living in the now.   She probably figured they'd have a few years before Kody started looking for additional wives (plus she was still a teenager if memory serves - not a great time to make life choices).  It must have been one hell of a blow when Janelle started hitting on HER husband, but since she agreed to let Kody marry additional wives, she couldn't say squat.

The book goes into ways that Meri passive-aggressively made her displeasure felt.  Going off on weekend trips with Kody and leaving Janelle (and later Christine) alone, watching movies snuggled on the couch with Kody holding hands while Janelle sat in a chair nearby, that sort of thing.

BTW I don't think that Meri "found" Robyn for Kody.  That is a bullshit story - Robyn saw Kody, and just like Janelle she set her cap for him.  Basically this whole thing sucks, it's like your husband having an affair except you can't do ANYTHING because you implicitly agreed to it. 

I have a hard time feeling sorry for any of these people.  Meri is basically stuck now.  She really has no skills (yeah I know she worked with 'at risk kids' but there were indications that she only did that on a very part time basis and she doesn't have a degree in anything, which would be required I believe if she wanted to pursue that again), and she's tied down with a house way too big for her and the associated payments living in a cul-de-sac with people she can't stand.  Yeah, she claims to like the kids, but they're all leaving one by one.  She's doing the Lularoe thing, but it's an MLM so once the fad is over, she along with thousands of others will be left with a lot of unsold clothes and credit card bills.  IMO.

 

ETA - Zahdii, i just now saw your post!  I think I'm echoing you.  :)

Edited December 2, 2016 by DakotaJustice

[DeusExMaraschino]

20 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

As someone who knew about a parental affair and was asked about it by the non cheating parent, its an awful position (my sister and I were introduced to this person at a coffeeshop while my mom was at home grieving for her mom who had just died).  My sisters and I finally had to tell our father we will not lie for you.  She knows and we are not going to cover any longer.  You tell her or we will.  It was torture to our mom but she knew without us saying anything (she was also dying of cancer).  It took years to forgive our dad.  We loved him but he put us in an awful position.  I do see what Mariah's issue is.  

Kids never need to be part of a parents drama.  Meri needs to make it up to her for putting her in the position of secret holder.  Then they need to move on.  Hopefully away from Kody.

I totally agree with this.  First off, Mariah is dealing with college.  She is discovering that the things her parents told her growing up are lies.  Maybe you CAN get into heaven without being miserable your entire life.  Maybe non-FLDS people aren't all evil.  Maybe not all monogamous people are jealous and want to break up families.  Maybe Polygamy is anti-feminist and anti-family.   Maybe women ARE more than just a womb.  Maybe not all kids are quasi-peers/stand-in spouses for their absent fathers.

So she's reeling with looking at other kids and comparing her upbringing to theirs, the foundation of her beliefs are being shaken.  Then her Mom very blatantly turns out to be not happy in her super happy polygamous marriage that makes everyone better.  In fact, eager to get out of it and find a man who makes her happy and fulfilled.  IN HER OWN WORDS.  So I think Meri is just a stand in for Mariah's anger at the whole situation.  Growing up in a cult, with a dumb big-kid dad, being told you're "only" a woman whose job it is to stay pure and have babies...I get it.  I have a lot of sympathy for Mariah, having had a similar college experience.  Religious polygamy is ultimately not good for anyone, man or woman.  It's not fair to ask a woman to share her marriage for religious reasons, and it's not fair to expect a man to be able to fulfill multiple roles to multiple women and not drop the ball.  It's a tremendous amount of pressure. And it's bullshit.

Edited December 2, 2016 by DeusExMaraschino

[Wings]

Thank you all for filling in some details for me.  

Meri is not done with Kody, not at all, she wants them to be close, as she said on the preview.  

As for Sam.  Had he been real she would have given that a shot. The simultaneous truth is that she would have preferred that Kody come running toward her with professions of love, apologize for allowing their relationship to lapse and promise a different future for them. 

I agree that Janelle is stuffing her emotions with food and a much more sensitive person than she is able to convey. 

I don't see Meri a bitch who has to have control at all.  I see a sad and broken woman wanting to be special for who she is, valued and loved by Kody.  And that is not an unreasonable desire. 

What a fucked up lifestyle. 

2 hours ago, DeusExMaraschino said:

I totally agree with this.  First off, Mariah is dealing with college.  She is discovering that the things her parents told her growing up are lies.  Maybe you CAN get into heaven without being miserable your entire life.  Maybe non-FLDS people aren't all evil.  Maybe not all monogamous people are jealous and want to break up families.  Maybe Polygamy is anti-feminist and anti-family.   Maybe women ARE more than just a womb.  Maybe not all kids are quasi-peers/stand-in spouses for their absent fathers.

So she's reeling with looking at other kids and comparing her upbringing to theirs, the foundation of her beliefs are being shaken.  Then her Mom very blatantly turns out to be not happy in her super happy polygamous marriage that makes everyone better.  In fact, eager to get out of it and find a man who makes her happy and fulfilled.  IN HER OWN WORDS.  So I think Meri is just a stand in for Mariah's anger at the whole situation.  Growing up in a cult, with a dumb big-kid dad, being told you're "only" a woman whose job it is to stay pure and have babies...I get it.  I have a lot of sympathy for Mariah, having had a similar college experience.  Religious polygamy is ultimately not good for anyone, man or woman.  It's not fair to ask a woman to share her marriage for religious reasons, and it's not fair to expect a man to be able to fulfill multiple roles to multiple women and not drop the ball.  It's a tremendous amount of pressure. And it's bullshit.

Thundering applause and standing ovation!  Excellent post. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by wings707

[MrSmith]

7 minutes ago, DakotaJustice said:

She's [Meri] doing the Lularoe thing, but it's an MLM so once the fad is over, she along with thousands of others will be left with a lot of unsold clothes and credit card bills.

Oh. My. God. Lularoe is an MLM? I did not know (or catch) that before. So, if it's previously been said, I missed it and appreciate you saying it again. NEVER TRUST AN MLM COMPANY. I'll explain. First, though, I don't know if I said it in this thread or another and so I'm going to say it again: I do web development. If I said it in this thread, I apologize for repeating myself. Now, on to the explanation (and I apologize for how completely off topic this going to go)....

I've worked for MLM companies (as a web developer, not a sales drone). You cannot trust the people who run those companies. You cannot trust their technology, either. Especially don't trust the technology. NEVER EVER GIVE THEM PERSONALLY IDENTIFYING INFORMATION, such as your credit card number, your social security number, and so on. If you can avoid it, don't even give them your home address or your home telephone number. Your data is not safe with these people. They don't care about security (or, if they do, they only care because of how visible they are to the government and state Attorneys General). Sleep soundly at night certain in the knowledge that all your information has been hacked, because it will happen.

The very first company I worked for as a web developer was an MLM. When I started working for that company, their billing system was screwed up. It would repeatedly bill some customers, not bill other customers at all, and it would correctly bill others. (Customers == sales drone) The determining factor on the repeated billing was whether that customer had ever had their monthly charge declined (and how many times it was ever declined). So, if they tried to bill a customer and failed and the second attempt succeeded, then the next month the customer would be billed twice. If they had multiple failures (even if there was no successful billing event), the next month the system would try to bill them that many times. The same was true for customers who'd successfully reversed the charge. I can't remember the condition required to cause the system to never bill a customer. That one was a little more arcane and less straight-forward than the repeated billing problem.

On top of that, none of the following personal information was encrypted/hashed*:

1. Credit card numbers.
2. Credit card expiration dates.
3. Credit card CCV (CVC?) numbers. (The three digits on the back of the card.)
4. Usernames (for logging in).
5. Passwords (for logging in).
6. Social security numbers.

That covers most of the really sensitive personal information. This company was, in the end, hacked at least 5 times and I know the database was copied in full each of those times. I was not responsible for the servers, though I know that some of the breaches were because of bad web site code - some of which I was able to address before I quit working for them. (Of course, at the time I didn't know very much and I might have been responsible for some of the vulnerabilities.) Anyway, the credit card information was stored in four or five different tables in the database (for those who don't know, a crude analogy is to think of a database like an Excel workbook where each table is a sheet in that workbook), which is just bad for many reasons (some of them technical). Eventually, I was able to get my boss to let me store the credit card information in just one table, but I never could get him to let me encrypt it or - preferably - off-load the storage of that data to the credit card gateway. Likewise, I could never get him to let me encrypt the SSN or login information, either.

And all of that is not unique to that company! The next three that I worked for after that all were the same: I wasn't allowed to off-load the storage of card information and wasn't allowed to encrypt any of it. I eventually quit working for the first company because I got a "real" programming job with a "real" (non-MLM) company and because the owner of the company owed me more than 10 grand. I pretty quickly ended my employment with the other companies, too, over the security issues.

So, if you know anyone who's going to get involved with an MLM (and assuming they cannot be dissuaded), they need to get a Federal Tax ID and not use their personal SSN. If they already have a Federal Tax ID, they should try to get one specifically for this purpose. (I'm not sure if that can be done, but they should try.) They should never use their actual credit or debit card number. Instead, get either a reloadable card from somewhere like Wal-Mart or just buy a Visa or MC gift card and use that. As for their telephone number, try to get a telephone number just for this purpose, too. Something like Google Hangouts. Of course, make sure their login username and password are totally unique and unrelated to any other username or password they use anywhere.

Anyway, sorry for all the off-topic-ness of this post. I just felt the need to share all that.

*Hashing is sort of a one-way encryption, which means the original data is lost once the hash is done. It's a bad analogy, but it's the best one I've got. True encryption is reversible.

[DakotaJustice]

@MrSmith I'm in the payments industry too, and noticed that right off the bat when the MSWC website was launched a couple-three years ago.  Stated it at TWOP and at the old Sister Wives Blog, thinking that the Browns would read that (since I'm pretty sure they read EVERYTHING about the show) and correct this but of course they never did.  *rolleyes*   (ETA - if the Browns did read my comments - and I'm not the only person who commented on the lack of security of their payments platform/website - and they chose to ignore and not do anything, then that shows to me that they don't give two shits about their fans or their prospective customers, and shouldn't get a penny of anyone's business.)

And I agree with you on MLM, totally.  This is the second MLM the family has been involved with since the show started, and probably one of many.  I remember reading that they were involved in Pampered Chef at some point too.  Of course most MLMs are based in Utah, and also that was a Big Love storyline and it's uncanny how this show matches up with so many of the plots in that particular show - Big Love of course being the springboard to why this show started to begin with.

BTW there are actually chargeback rights pertaining to MLM if you cancel, if they continue to bill you for recurrings or if you change your mind and want to send stuff back. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by DakotaJustice

[ladle]

If it's true that the Mormon church (LDS) refused to accept Mykelti and Madison just because their parents are polygamists, that's inherently shitty. 

[DakotaJustice]

34 minutes ago, ladle said:

If it's true that the Mormon church (LDS) refused to accept Mykelti and Madison just because their parents are polygamists, that's inherently shitty. 

I kinda got the impression it wasn't because of their plyg background because there have been lots of instances of former polygamists or children of polygamists going to LDS with no problem (example - the oldest Darger son and I think at least one of Brady Williams' children has gone LDS).  I think it was that LDS didn't want them to continue being on the show because that could be construed as being okay with their parents still in the lifestyle, and apparently it was more important to keep that TLC money coming in.  I doubt that the church wanted either one to renounce their family or cut them out of their lives, but that's just me.

My opinion of Maddie and Mykelti is pretty low because they have made the decision that the show money is more important than their religious beliefs.

Edited December 2, 2016 by DakotaJustice

[MrSmith]

12 minutes ago, DakotaJustice said:

Of course most MLMs are based in Utah, and also that was a Big Love storyline and it's uncanny how this show matches up with so many of the plots in that particular show - Big Love of course being the springboard to why this show started to begin with.

BTW there are actually chargeback rights pertaining to MLM if you cancel, if they continue to bill you for recurrings or if you change your mind and want to send stuff back. 

My wife watched Big Love. I tried and succeeded for a while (when Amanda Seyfried mostly left the show and Ginnifer Goodwin got that bob [hair style] I lost interest; I'm a man - sue me! :D ). Chargebacks for an MLM are a real bear. It's why my boss wouldn't let me off-load the storage of the payment information. Once they reach the threshold for chargebacks, they switch card processors. And they don't want to have to have their customers re-enter their payment information in order to continue billing. They rely on people forgetting that they're paying those fees and don't want reminders sent out for fear people will wake up and cancel. (I wasn't allowed to create a notification system to send payment confirmations or notices of declined payments.) Of course, off-loading the payment data storage isn't the barrier to switching card processors that my boss at the time thought, but neither he nor I knew that at that time. I'm still not sure why I wasn't allowed to at least encrypt the data within our own database, though. I was glad when I stopped working for them because it felt too skeevy and they [the Government] successfully prosecuted Madoff's programmers for writing code for a pyramid scheme. So, that all made me nervous and I was never so glad to quit something in all my life.

Edited December 2, 2016 by MrSmith
Spelling

[ladle]

But, I mean... Maybe they are okay with their parents still being in the lifestyle but they don't want that for themselves.  I totally get that LDS wants to shake its association with polygamy-- and, don't get me wrong, I don't think the girls' reasons for being on the show are totally pure and non-financially-based-- but to say don't film with your parents because that makes it seems like you approve of their lifestyle, seems overly harsh to me.  Why can't they approve but want a different path for themselves?  

On the plus side, this likely will not be an issue much longer, because how many seasons does this goat-rodeo have left in it?  (Though, to be fair, I've been saying that since Robyn was thin and Truely was bald...)

[MrSmith]

2 minutes ago, ladle said:

On the plus side, this likely will not be an issue much longer, because how many seasons does this goat-rodeo have left in it?  (Though, to be fair, I've been saying that since Robyn was thin and Truely was bald...)

OMG. I had to cover my mouth to stifle that laugh!

[Natalie68]

11 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

 

Christine needs to watch that little girl better and worry less about Kodoofus. First the kid almost dies now it looks like she has skin irritation all around her mouth and her speech problems.

When Meri was scowling she looked just like Trump with that orange face.

*edited to say I forgot it started Sunday so watched it on repeat.  I just made it through this whole thread and I literally laughed until tears came out of my eyes. This train wreck is worth watching just for the posts here.

I don't have kids and I didn't have that problem as a kid.  What causes that?

[DakotaJustice]

31 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

My wife watched Big Love. I tried and succeeded for a while (when Amanda Seyfried mostly left the show and Ginnifer Goodwin got that bob [hair style] I lost interest; I'm a man - sue me! :D ).

I stopped watching after they jumped the shark around Season 4.  The first couple of seasons were great, but they went downhill starting in Season 3. 

[ladle]

I don't normally like to comment on anyone's worsening and haggard appearance, but: Robyn.

When Kody begins a sentence with "I'm not sexist, but..."  Oh man.  

From the looks of things, Kody might be the next in line to give birth.  (Argh, can you even imagine what a pain in the ass that shitstick would be while pregnant?  "My maaaan paaaaaain.")

Kody talking to his future son-in-law about "remaining non-sexual" with his daughter made me want to flush out my ears with lye.  And then discussing their "honeymoon experience"?  Ewewewewew.  Ew.  Ew.  

In case it's not obvious, I do not respect Kody.  Like...at all.  But I was pretty much on his side during the whole conversation with Mykelti and Tony.  In fact, I thought he was remarkably contained and that both kids came off looking like entitled little shits.  Maybe this means I'm getting old.  Old and haggard.  Like Robyn.  (Oops!)

I mean, to me it's not so much that they want to have a "short courtship" or whatever.  You're adults (technically): do what you want to do.  But to plan your wedding for two months after your sister's is a little bit shitty.  And the assumption that Kodouche is going to pony up for the event is quite a bit shitty.  Ugh.  No.  Even the way Mykelti whined, "But I want it in a paaaark."  Girl, bye.

[ginger90]

21 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I don't have kids and I didn't have that problem as a kid.  What causes that?

It could be because she has a habit of licking her lips, dermatitis, or due to a med she takes.

[Natalie68]

5 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

It could be because she has a habit of licking her lips, dermatitis, or due to a med she takes.

Thank you!  Poor thing.  It looked very uncomfortable.  One thing I noticed as a Duggar and Brown watcher is while Truly has a speech issue that needs help she seems more mature than Josie and is a year younger.

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, ladle said:

If it's true that the Mormon church (LDS) refused to accept Mykelti and Madison just because their parents are polygamists, that's inherently shitty. 

That's a half truth. Anyone who joins the LDS church  states they won't be polygamous or support polygamy. Don't agree to that tenant of faith, you won't be accepted into the church. Madison and Mykelti saw that rule as saying they couldn't have contact with their family, so they chose not to become members. They just weren't compatible beliefs.

[ghoulina]

19 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I think he cares but I don't think he cares that his relationship with Meri sucks. I think he cares that she dared care about someone else. I think he cares that she showed people that he isn't such a stud that has no trouble with making 4 women happy. I think he cares that now he has to deal with her. But I don't think he cares about the marriage or why Meri felt alone enough to go looking elsewhere

Oh, I agree. I think he sees it as more of an attack on who he is as a man. HE can have multiple wives, but Meri should think the run rises and sets with him. I do think they had a very strong romance at one point. But the addition of Robyn and the fertility issues screwed that all up. They've been cold with each other for years. SO yea, I don't think he's all depressed and deeply hurt by her actions, but I do think it bothers him a lot more than he's letting on. 

 

6 hours ago, Granny58 said:

Oh, I don't dress in my Sunday best!  But I don't wear a wrinkled T-shirt, have unkempt hair and (in his case) have a scraggly almost-beard.  (well, I'm menopausal, so maybe I do have that beard and nobody's telling me - bless their hearts)

Why don't you start shaving that friggin' chin off with all that hair on there???

(bless you if you get this reference)

6 hours ago, MrSmith said:

LOL! You know, I lived in a town like that just a few years ago. And it really was a "one horse Podunk town"; the population when we moved there was just over 1300 people and by the time we moved away it had sunk to just over 1100. And it did have one bank, six bars, and zero stoplights (it was in Wisconsin, which explains the number of bars). The ladies in the bank actually were always dressed very well and exactly like I remember tellers dressing when I lived in Milwaukee and Minneapolis. I have to say I still miss living in that little town, too....

I've got you beat. My town is roughly 200 people. We have one bank and TWO bars. Definitely no stop light. Our head bank lady dresses fairly nicely, but the other random tellers that are in there are a bit more casual. No jeans. But nothing special. It's pretty lax. 

But I do think the "asking of her hand" is kind of a special moment. And it's going to be on film. So don't you want to look nice for it? It wasn't his clothing so much, as the fact that it looked like he pulled it out of a pile in his room. 

[ladle]

How come none of the inspirational plaques Meri has around her house say "Stop Fiddle-Fartin' Around"?

I thought it was pretty funny how concerned everyone was that Janelle was going to "go ape" because Mykelti's wedding was so close to Madison's.  Janelle is soooo subdued, I can't even imagine what "going ape" would look like for her.  (Possibly reacting by saying "Holy cow" in a measured tone, like she did?  Lol.)

Also, it was kind of nice to see Kody and Christine being united on an issue and trying to talk through it with each other in an adult way.

[Marigold]

Who is paying for Maddie's wedding? I thought Caleb and Maddie were paying along with TLC.   Kody was complaining he is out of money so I guess the Browns are paying and not the bride & groom? 

 Why is it unreasonable for Mykelti to expect her parents pay for her wedding? 

Tony was rude about the whole thing but I felt bad for Mykelti.  Maddie is clearly the preferred child in that situation. 

[AZChristian]

4 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

She probably figured they'd have a few years before Kody started looking for additional wives (plus she was still a teenager if memory serves - not a great time to make life choices).  It must have been one hell of a blow when Janelle started hitting on HER husband, but since she agreed to let Kody marry additional wives, she couldn't say squat.

But DAKOTAJUSTICE, don't you remember?  Kody doesn't look for additional wives on his own.  He gets a "testimony" from God telling him it's time to get another wife.  Apparently, he then marries whatever desperate woman hits on him.

To which, I will add a Bible reference (which I don't do often in spite of my screen name).  "God is not the author of confusion."  He didn't make this mess; He's just getting blamed for it.

[riverblue22]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

It could be because she has a habit of licking her lips, dermatitis, or due to a med she takes.

It could also be impetigo, which is a bacterial infection that can get started, for example, from a runny nose that keeps the skin wet and irritated.

[DakotaJustice]

18 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

But DAKOTAJUSTICE, don't you remember?  Kody doesn't look for additional wives on his own.  He gets a "testimony" from God telling him it's time to get another wife.  Apparently, he then marries whatever desperate woman hits on him.

To which, I will add a Bible reference (which I don't do often in spite of my screen name).  "God is not the author of confusion."  He didn't make this mess; He's just getting blamed for it.

ah yes.  The testimony of the pants.  :)

[Wings]

3 hours ago, ladle said:

If it's true that the Mormon church (LDS) refused to accept Mykelti and Madison just because their parents are polygamists, that's inherently shitty. 

All oganized religions are controlling and judgemental by nature. LDS is no worse. 

They don't have to join that church, no one is forcing them.  They don't have to choose any church. 

Live your life anyway you want and believe what feels right to you. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by wings707

[iii]

1 hour ago, Marigold said:

Why is it unreasonable for Mykelti to expect her parents pay for her wedding? 

Tony was rude about the whole thing but I felt bad for Mykelti.  Maddie is clearly the preferred child in that situation. 

The way I see it, it's entirely an adult desicion made with a partner. I would not at all expect a parent to pay for their child's house, apartment, adoptive children.. etc and all descions made for the child's own life after they have gone off to live on their own! 

I have no sympathy for mykelti, cmon she chose the dude. 

[Marigold]

Just now, iii said:

The way I see it, it's entirely an adult desicion made with a partner. I would not at all expect a parent to pay for their child's house, apartment, adoptive children.. etc and all descions made for the child's own life after they have gone off to live on their own! 

I have no sympathy for mykelti, cmon she chose the dude. 

Oh, i totally agree.  Mykelti can pay for her own wedding.   

That's my point.  Apparently the Browns are paying for Maddie's wedding.  Why does Maddie get a nice wedding and Mykelti doesn't?  

As a parent, either you pay for all or you pay for none. Or give a set amount of money to each child towards a wedding. 

The Browns clearly are unaware of the precedent they are setting with Maddie.  Now each child is going to expect a similar wedding and when they don't provide equally?  OUCH!  But's that's nothing new for the Browns.  Hurt feelings come with the territory. :(

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

All oganized religions are controlling and judgemental by nature. LDS is no worse. 

They don't have to join that church, no one is forcing them.  They don't have to choose any church. 

Live your life anyway you want and believe what feels right to you. 

Except......they believe as Mormons that they do have to be members of 'the right' church to be admitted into the highest level of heaven in the afterlife. So they do have to choose a specific church (to them a Mormon affiliated church) to be with their families in the afterlife.  They did branch out from their AUB church to the mainstream LDS, but it isn't that easy to just live however you want when you've been immersed in a culture from birth and following its norms is essential to you.

Just now, Marigold said:

Oh, i totally agree.  Mykelti can pay for her own wedding.   

That's my point.  Apparently the Browns are paying for Maddie's wedding.  Why does Maddie get a nice wedding and Mykelti doesn't?  

As a parent, either you pay for all or you pay for none. Or give a set amount of money to each child towards a wedding. 

The Browns clearly are unaware of the precedent they are setting with Maddie.  Now each child is going to expect a similar wedding and when they don't provide equally?  OUCH!  But's that's nothing new for the Browns.  Hurt feelings come with the territory. :(

When have the Browns ever cared about fairness or equal distribution of resources? 

[Marigold]

1 minute ago, RazzleberryPie said:

When have the Browns ever cared about fairness or equal distribution of resources? 

Poor Mykelti. No wonder she thinks Tony is fabulous.  

I guess that is polygamous culture.  Fight for the scraps of attention and try to one-up the other wives or children for your own survival in the family.  

[notnowimbusy]

I just watched the sneak preview, and I get the idea Janelle is absolutely terrified to do something that will cause Meri to go off on her.  The reason she left the family for two years, besides, postpartum depression after her 5th child, and the straw that broke the camels back was a horrible fight with Meri.   Janelle clearly doesn't like confrontation, and I imagine that Meri can really let loose on someone, no holding back.   She doesn't want to open that door, and who can blame her.  Why does she have to get along with Meri on a more personal level.   They aren't friends - yes they have a common past, but they no longer live in one big house, so at best they are neighbors.

I  think TLC, and maybe Calebs parents paid for the wedding - with Kody maybe chipping in for the dress.    I can't imagine the Brown's having saved enough "grocery money" to pay for anything besides some home-made decorations (ala Meri), and a pot luck. 

[DakotaJustice]

Found the article - guess what, Caleb Darger not only didn't have to renounce or cut off his family, they appeared before the LDS bishop to support him in his choice. 

Pants on fire award goes to the Browns including Maddie and Mykelti.

 

http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/2012/08/mormon-polygamist-caleb-darger.html?m=1

[Wings]

41 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Except......they believe as Mormons that they do have to be members of 'the right' church to be admitted into the highest level of heaven in the afterlife. So they do have to choose a specific church (to them a Mormon affiliated church) to be with their families in the afterlife.  They did branch out from their AUB church to the mainstream LDS, but it isn't that easy to just live however you want when you've been immersed in a culture from birth and following its norms is essential to you.

 

I do not disagee with you..  As I said everyone is free to do as they choose. So choose LDS, if you feel you must. Take it or leave it but but no whining. :^)  You know their rules and did when you met Mykelti. 

ETA .  Just read post above that posted as I did. Tony is full of shit it appears. Jesus, these people!  ***runs screaming***

Edited December 3, 2016 by wings707

[DakotaJustice]

30 minutes ago, notnowimbusy said:

 

I  think TLC, and maybe Calebs parents paid for the wedding - with Kody maybe chipping in for the dress.    I can't imagine the Brown's having saved enough "grocery money" to pay for anything besides some home-made decorations (ala Meri), and a pot luck. 

Oh they have to bitch and moan about the cost, otherwise just saying the truth that TLC will pay most of it won't be dramatic enough. 

I figure TLC gives the family/couple a stipend or set budget to adhere to and probably requires proof of where the money was spent. I don't think they pay 100%. 

[AZChristian]

I can imagine the discussion at TLC:

"We'll pay for Maddie's wedding to have something worthwhile to film this season.  Let's put a $2,000 cap on what we'll kick in."

Later:

"Oh, Mykelti's getting married and she wants to do it THIS SEASON?  Sorry, we've expended all wedding funds for this year.  Kody will have to pay for it."

[Kohola3]

Quote

The Browns clearly are unaware of the precedent they are setting with Maddie. 

First of all, none of them understand words of more than 2 syllables so "precedent" would not be part of their vocabulary. Even if it was, they don't have the self awareness to understand the whole concept.  Or care.

[booboopbedoo]

Quote

Tony knew he was going to be on tv he would have worn his finest t-shirt for the occasion.

I thought it was his finest t-shirt??

Yuck- toe Jam and he probably smells like belly button

[Adeejay]

I don't believe Meri and Janelle will ever be close.  Meri probably believes that Janelle had her eyes on Kody from Day One, and Janelle will never forgive Meri for the way she treated her during the early years.  They need to spell out what is really bothering them or this conflict will never be resolved.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Adeejay

[ReadMeLattice]

12 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I'm usually team Janelle if I had to choose but this makes me feel terrible for Meri and now I wish she would downright beat Janelle's ass. I think you may be right about this and if that's the case then Meri has every reason to hate Janelle and Janelle is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's very weird that Janelle would feel comfortable in this situation and the fact that she was and is makes her seem sociopathic. Very odd.

I think that's true sometimes but I also try to consider their background. All of them are somehow related to each other. The reason they're all so thrilled about Maddie's fiance is that he is essentially already in their family. That's how this brand of polygamy works. I can't stand Tony but the Browns seem to dislike him mostly because he's not somehow related to them. While this is weird, I don't know if it was nearly *as* weird for the likes of Kody and co as it would be for the less incestuous general population. 

[ReadMeLattice]

3 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

Found the article - guess what, Caleb Darger not only didn't have to renounce or cut off his family, they appeared before the LDS bishop to support him in his choice. 

Pants on fire award goes to the Browns including Maddie and Mykelti.

 

http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/2012/08/mormon-polygamist-caleb-darger.html?m=1

I used to be Mormon. I don't think Mykelti or Maddie is lying. The Mormon Church is obsessed above all with appearances and publicity. They've excommunicated people before who openly criticized the church while keeping people who committed crimes like rape and child abuse because it wasn't as public. The polygamy is not truly the issue, it's the TV polygamy. The church doesn't want to be associated with popular polygamists. 

[Wings]

11 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I used to be Mormon. I don't think Mykelti or Maddie is lying. The Mormon Church is obsessed above all with appearances and publicity. They've excommunicated people before who openly criticized the church while keeping people who committed crimes like rape and child abuse because it wasn't as public. The polygamy is not truly the issue, it's the TV polygamy. The church doesn't want to be associated with popular polygamists. 

Religions make my head spin.  I will stop here. Oh, the irony.  

[Nowhere]

4 hours ago, booboopbedoo said:

I thought it was his finest t-shirt??

Yuck- toe Jam and he probably smells like belly button

"Smells like belly button" is both disgusting and the most hilarious thing I've read since @Granny58 said she had a scraggly almost-beard.   Damn, I can't wait to tell somebody they smell like belly button. 

[LilWharveyGal]

2 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I used to be Mormon. I don't think Mykelti or Maddie is lying. The Mormon Church is obsessed above all with appearances and publicity. They've excommunicated people before who openly criticized the church while keeping people who committed crimes like rape and child abuse because it wasn't as public. The polygamy is not truly the issue, it's the TV polygamy. The church doesn't want to be associated with popular polygamists. 

It seems like it might have been better for the church to quietly accept the girls. Who would have known? "The church banned the girls!" can be brought up to stir the drama. "Maddie/Caleb and Mykelti/Tony are Mormon now," is only notable for the kids following a different religion, and so the show might have glossed over it entirely. 

[Raynedon]

12 hours ago, notnowimbusy said:

I  think TLC, and maybe Calebs parents paid for the wedding - with Kody maybe chipping in for the dress.    I can't imagine the Brown's having saved enough "grocery money" to pay for anything besides some home-made decorations (ala Meri), and a pot luck. 

Caleb has been out of the house and independent and working for a number of years and I'd imagine he footed the bill for the wedding, well that is, he paid for the incidentals that TLC didn't cover, and that Maddie, and/or Janelle paid for her dress.  

[RazzleberryPie]

7 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

It seems like it might have been better for the church to quietly accept the girls. Who would have known? "The church banned the girls!" can be brought up to stir the drama. "Maddie/Caleb and Mykelti/Tony are Mormon now," is only notable for the kids following a different religion, and so the show might have glossed over it entirely. 

Except this family does nothing quietly. The Browns say the purpose of their show is to bring attention to polygamy to decriminalize it. Even if TLC glossed over it, people in the LDS community would know. 

The LDS church wants nothing to do with polygamy today. They don't have to accept anyone who doesn't want to say polygamy is wrong. 

The difference in things formerly bad people and Maddy/Mykelti, is that the formerly bad people say they have remorse and changed their ways. Whether this is true or not, time will tell. Maddy and Mykelti are honest and say they have no intention of cutting off their family, so their 'bad' actions of hanging with polygamists will be ongoing forever.

A whole organization shouldn't have to bend its rules - especially when it believes these rules were direct commands from God - for two people. 

It doesn't matter if I don't think the rules make sense or if I think Joseph Smith or whoever made up these rules. I'm not trying to be a member of the LDS church. 

maddie and Mykelti were given an option and they chose not to take it. I applaud them to being honest and admitting they will not cut off their insane families for church membership. However, I also think the mainstream LDS were correct in upholding their beliefs and not accepting polygamist supporters into their fold.

As for paying for weddings - the Browns ain't paying for shite for any of them. They have no money. TLC and InTouch or whoever paid for Maddie's wedding. Maddie is a child of a D list reality show family and has some novelty bc she is the first to marry, and she's able to leverage some $$$ from her wedding being timed (not on purpose) right around when Meri gave the family a little more notoriety with her catfish scandal and the divorce/wife swap. Mykelti has even less of a 'wow' factor since the scandal is old news now and she's not the first kid to marry. It sucks for her, but its reality. Literally. 

[Wings]

I have not watched the past 3 seasons religiously; I kept track but missed some things more subtle.  

I know it is obnoxious to ask others to do catch up for me.  I apologize. Real life became busy and some of my shows had to go.  This was an easy choice because they irritate the shit out of me. 

I have some questions.  Disclaimer, my memory sucks so details even from seasons I watched have slipped away. 

Christine seems to be the one wife that is the most positive and easy.  She is pretty, too.  Doesn't seem like Kody Is all that into her.  Is it just about him being all about Robin?  Or did something happen that I missed?

A new infant in the house will keep Kody away from sleeping there, given the sleepless nights. How old is the baby?    I predict they will have some thunder if he starts to seriously work on his relationship with Meri.  Big if.  This may be wishful thinking on my part.  I would love to see some drama with that. I don't like Robin. 

I don't like Janelle either, especially knowing what I just learned about how she and Kody got together.  Damn.  This family lacks integrity in all they do. 

Since Kody is not adopting Robins kids, Meri should insist he remarry her.  I am dead serious.  She should insist after they work things out and they very well may. To what point, who knows, but something better than what they have now.  

I would like to come out of retirement, fly out there and offer my counceling services free of charge.*  I know exactly how I would approach it.  I don't believe Nancy is a real therapist.  My guess is that she is a retired social worker or school councelor  from their religion (or a branch) they recruited because she is part of this incestuous get up. Google brings up zip about her.  I doubt Nancy is even her name. 

* couples councelor

Edited December 3, 2016 by wings707