S02.E07: The Darkest Place

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, ahisma said:

The identity reveal that freaked me out was Supergirl telling Lillian she recognized her from Lena's office. How many blonde girls has Lillian met in Lena's office? It wasn't that long ago, Kara. Way to blow your secret identity. 

I thought it was Supergirl that Lillian saw in Lena's office.  Maybe I'm misremembering that, but I thought I remember Supergirl walking out and flying off the balcony when Lillian came in.

I also am questioning Jeremiah.  That was way too easy.  And what an odd thing for him to say about Alex.  

As far as her not calling Jeremiah "Dad", the show's been pretty consistent on this, I think.  She doesn't call Eliza  "Mom" either, she calls her Eliza.  While she obviously loves them and calls them her foster parents, they are Jeremiah and Eliza to her, not Mom and Dad.  

Quote

From my point of view the problem is Kara sort of mas a motherly attitude with him that I think needs to change.

I agree with this.  I'm not necessarily opposed to the writers putting them together, but putting Kara in the position of mentor to him has her acting kind of like a scolding big sister, and that's an awkward dynamic for shipping.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Starfish35

[Stuffy]

Quote

I thought it was Supergirl that Lillian saw in Lena's office.  Maybe I'm misremembering that, but I thought I remember Supergirl walking out and flying off the balcony when Lillian came in.

That's the way I remember it too, but I need to go back and watch it again to be sure.

[stealinghome]

It was Supergirl, yes.

[TwistedandBored]

I am getting sick of how much they have depowered Supergirl and  J’onn this season. I know the depowering J'onn has been a thing since the start but it has gotten worse this season. 

Also, a big ugh to Mon'el and Kara but I expected nothing less from CW. 

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah, Kara's amazing disappearing/neutralized super powers are really annoying me. As is Henshaw being able to take her down in a fistfight when he doesn't have Kryptonian powers like in the comics. That whole fight was singularly unimpressive, and put to shame by the J'onn vs. M'gann fight where they pulled out all the stops and spent 90% of the SFX budget.

[mrspidey]

15 hours ago, RandomWatcher said:

Anyone else catch the Batman reference?

Yep. So this is why there seems to be no Batman on Earth one. He's on Kara's Earth. 

[MarkHB]

7 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Cyborg Superman - the polar opposite of Sunshine Superman.

I'm guessing the guy who was killing the crooks Jimmy was getting blamed for is Peacemaker?  'cause if it is, people in the costume department did a bang up job redesigning his outfit.  Now he doesn't look like he has a urinal on his head.

I just discovered that he's actually a Superman Revenge Squad (1990's edition) member named Barrage.

[Starfish35]

The Batman reference was awesome. :)  And more so when Kara's

heading to another Earth to meet another pack of vigilantes next week.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

What Happened On Supergirl? What DIDN'T Happen?

Ranking the episode's plots and subplots, from A to 32-Epsilon-Z.

[ahisma]

Quote

I thought it was Supergirl that Lillian saw in Lena's office.  Maybe I'm misremembering that, but I thought I remember Supergirl walking out and flying off the balcony when Lillian came in

My mistake. I was remembering a different time Kara was in Lena's office. Whew! At least "Kara" is safe from Lillian.

[regularlyleaded]

Much Better. And a far better episode than I expected.

To me it felt like Kara was more relevant to the story in this episode than she has been in a while, so as far as I'm concerned this episode was an improvement from last week's episode and last week's was an improvement on the week before that. So, dare I say it? Is the show finally headed towards writing a story for Kara? Please say, 'Yes', Show.

(Though, in retrospect, I'm cutting them some deserved slack with regards to what I feel is a lack of focus on Kara because to film the upcoming crossover episodes took some crazy scheduling. And, by all accounts, everyone across all the shows was driving themselves into the ground making it all work. Melissa could only be at so many places at once without running her dead, so I appreciate that the show tried to do the best they could with the time that they had with her while she was doing shoots for multiple shows for several weeks.)

Anyways... back to this episode.

As per usual, my favorite scenes were all of those with Kara – I'm sure everyone is shocked by that admission ;). But, in terms of highlights:

• Kara's scene in the training room with J'onn I thought was particularly touching. The show doesn't often reflect back to Kara's experience when first arriving on Earth and those initial weeks and months following the heartbreaking trauma she lived through. So this scene with Kara sharing with J'onn that experience and the wisdom (and some sense of healing) that she gained from learning to deal with it -- that allowing herself to be loved by others wasn't a betrayal to her parents -- I thought was beautifully done. Kara and J'onn have this connection not just as individuals but one also derived from a similar tragedy in each of their past. Yet despite J'onn's age, he who is hundreds of years older than Kara, it's often Kara who has a better handle on how to deal with that loss. So I find it to be such a lovely turn that they take when their relationship dynamic switches from J'onn teaching (often lecturing) Kara to be more cautious, think strategically, be responsible, to then Kara being the wiser one that helps J'onn understand that it's okay to move on with his life. Just an all-around lovely scene.
• Kara's scenes with Jeremiah were also really good. I had spotted Dean Cain's name in the credits but thought perhaps he was going to appear in a flashback or something, so I was surprised to see him come to Kara's rescue here. I think Melissa did a good job of showing how totally stunned, happy, and confused Kara was by his sudden appearance, as well as Kara's reluctance to leave him behind. When Jeremiah is digging the bullet out of Mon-El's leg all Kara can do is just stare at Jeremiah, she's so completely stunned. I also think not everything is on the up and up with Jeremiah. That escape was all too neat. But, Jeremiah seemed so happy to see Kara, there was such genuine warmth in their reunion, and he seemed to very much want to get Kara out that I hate to think he's playing her (and Alex by extension). But, I know better. Something's up. (BTW - did anyone else notice that Jeremiah said that he had been at Cadmus for 15 years? That math does not add up. Kara's been on Earth less than 15 years. By all counts she's been on Earth 13 - 13.5 years at most, and Jeremiah didn't get hijacked by Cadmus until about a year after Kara arrived on Earth. So either the writing room didn't notice that error or it's meant to mean something. I'm going with writing error because Kara didn't even blink when Jeremiah said he'd been at Cadmus for 15 years.)
• I really liked Kara's scenes with Mon-El. I think Mon-El showed in this episode that Kara's belief in him - that he's capable of being a better person and someone capable of true heroism - isn't unfounded. I also think Kara and Mon-El make good foils for each other and it really helps that (IMO) there's good chemistry between the actors. I read a few of the others posts upstream and noticed that some see their relationship as too much teacher/student, but that's simply not the vibe I get from them. For lack of a better example, to me it's more like that transfer student that comes in new to your class and you as a fellow classmate get assigned as their guide for a while to show them the ropes while they find their way around. IMO there's not a power indifference in the relationship. Mon-El's not a child (despite behaving like a rowdy college kid), and Kara isn't a far older professor, so I don't think there's anything wrong with them developing a romantic relationship. Though, I will say, I don't think Mon-El is in a place to really be serious about a relationship. IMO a serious, mature relationship is about as foreign to him as Earth culture itself, but I think he can get there. And clearly he has developed feelings for Kara and she doesn't seem to be put off, so I'm really game for where this is going. I mean, Kara voluntarily shared her pot stickers with him, hehe ;) So...Ya, I like the idea of an eventual romantic relationship between Kara and Mon-El. I'm very much enjoying how it's being developed so far. Melissa and Chris are really selling it and I'm buying. I ship it and I. Regret. Nothing. Shame knows not my name!

Other Misc. Notes:

• I liked the group scenes at the beginning and at the end of the episodes. Even though they were talking about Guardian <insert_intense_eye_roll_here> for much of those scenes, I like that the show takes the time to show us these friends being friends; casual scenes that show that this is a group of people that genuinely care for each other and they are friends who do talk to each other. And BTW - I'm starting to think Kara's going to be more pissed and hurt that James and Winn have been lying to her and playing her the fool (with regards to Guardian) than it being about them being reckless, glory seeking idiots (because they are). From Kara's POV she let them into her world from the very beginning. Winn was the first person she told she had powers, and Jimmy always knew (way to overshare, Clark). So think for them to keep this from her will probably feel hurtful to her. But that's just my take. The way things are going with the Guardian arc the writers will probably have Kara apologize to them for not supporting their mad ego trip.
• Kara's introduction to Maggie made me laugh. I don't know how Melissa pulled it off but she managed to make the sweetest smile and saying the line "And I've heard all about you" read more as "I can throw you into space. Don't test me." I love how the Danvers Sisters have each other's back at all times.
• Speaking of the Danvers Sisters, I liked that scene when Kara and Mon-El are caged up at Cadmus, and despite being so scared and literally powerless, Kara's first thoughts were of Alex and getting a last message to Alex if she didn't make it out alive (I also liked how Mon-El lightened that moment too, but I digress). Kara and Alex's sibling relationship, I believe, is such a strong asset for this show and I think the show really benefits when they remember to highlight that even if it's with brief moments like this -- Kara wanting to get a final message to Alex -- and with moments such as Kara checking in with Alex to see if she was okay at different points in this episodes, particularly after all that emotional turmoil of last week's episode. It's not just nice continuity that Kara's really there for and incredibly supportive of Alex, it's also helps to underscore how connected and very important Kara and Alex are to each other. No matter what romantic relationships there may be on the horizon for either of the sisters, they really are each other's person (brOTP?), and that's something that the show should never forget.

Last Note:

I think I've come to a zen place with regards to Jimmy's Guardian/Captain Cape Envy story line. And by "zen" I mean I fast forwarded through all of the Guardian stuff because Don't! Care! (Thank you, DVR!) Couldn't tell you what happened with Captain Cape Envy, and my life is better for not knowing. (Though, points to Alex for smacking Winn upside the head when she found out what they were doing. LOL moment for me.) Since I fast forwarded my way through all of the guardian stuff, the only thing I found tiresome was the actual fast forwarding, especially when what was happening with Kara and Mon-El in Cadmus was a 10000% more interesting, so the Guardian scenes were just an obstacle in the way of my enjoyment of the actual show about Supergirl.

Edited November 22, 2016 by regularlyleaded
clarification, also because "there" and "their" mean different things

[BkWurm1]

9 hours ago, Jediknight said:

James beat a Navy Seal in a fight?  Come on, that's just stretching the laws of disbelief to the max.

.

But his suit is supped up so he'd have more strength than the Seal.  

7 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Wow, since last night my irritation at Jeremiah has morphed into outright anger.

Thank goodness Kara had the sense not to repeat what he said to Alex, because I can’t imagine how hurt Alex would’ve been that that’s the first (and only) thing the father she lost when she was 15 said about her. Since he obviously missed it, Kara was trying to tell him how amazing Alex has been all these years, and his response was not “She obviously did a great job,” or “Then I’m proud of her too” or “Tell her I love her,” but, essentially, to say Alex shouldn’t have done it. It’s so dismissive of Alex’s life choices. Did Alex devote too much of her life to taking care of other people instead of herself? Sure, but that is not his place at this point in time to say. He wasn’t fucking there. He doesn’t know what she went through. Alex didn’t make herself a parentalized sibling, her parents did that when they brought Kara home and told Alex she was responsible for her, and then Alex lost her dad and then her mother kept telling her all the way to the present day to take care of her sister, so maybe shut the fuck up and just say that Alex did a great job. That’s what Kara had been trying to point out, that if he’s proud of her for what she’s become, then he should be proud of Alex too because Alex had more of a hand in that than anyone. More nuanced points can be saved for, you know, when he’s actually gotten to know Alex again and really heard about what’s been going on all these years he wasn’t there. Instead his first words are a backhanded compliment at best and a dismissive criticism at worst. Just what Alex needs from her father. UGH.

As for how Kara refers to Jeremiah, I think it's just a function of Kara only having known Jeremiah for a year before he "died," and he had to go to work for the DEO very early into that, so he was away a lot that year. She loved him but didn't get enough time with him to really start seeing him as her father. With older children especially, and especially those who already have parents, those things take time. She did get that time with Eliza and so Eliza gets the adoptive mother title - "adoptive" because Kara clearly still wishes to make sure the fact she had another, biological, mother isn't forgotten. Alex is different because Kara didn't have any siblings on Krypton, so there was no replacement factor there to complicate Kara's feelings.

I think we are going to find out that Jeremiah's comment about Alex has more context, that he specifically knows something that he is worried about, hence why he couldn't just be proud of her accomplishments since I'm betting her accomplishments probably are attracting the kind of attention he does not want for her with Cadamus.  I also think that Jeremiah is probably stuck at Cadamus, probably reliant on something it does to keep him alive.  Just my guess.    

[Starfish35]

7 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think we are going to find out that Jeremiah's comment about Alex has more context, that he specifically knows something that he is worried about, hence why he couldn't just be proud of her accomplishments since I'm betting her accomplishments probably are attracting the kind of attention he does not want for her with Cadamus.  I also think that Jeremiah is probably stuck at Cadamus, probably reliant on something it does to keep him alive.  Just my guess.    

That makes sense.  There was something odd about the way he said it.  I didn't take it as simply him being dismissive of Alex.  There was something else there that I couldn't put my finger on.  Maybe because it seemed like such a strange thing for him to say that it seemed like a flag of some sort.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Starfish35

[AD35]

21 hours ago, RandomWatcher said:

Anyone else catch the Batman reference?

I caught it as well.  Also loved Winn's reference to Oz (the HBO series) when he was panicking about going to prison.

[anonyposter]

So the White Martians did experiments and found a way to destroy the Green Martians by having their blood transform them into White Martians.  But they decided to inject this material into themselves, on the off chance that one day a Green Martian would need a blood transfusion from a White Martian?  How bizarre is that?

[thuganomics85]

Ah, Jeremiah.  I was wondering when he was going to come back into play.  Even though he helped Kara/Mon-El, I have a bad feeling that he will end up being a willing partner with Cadimus, and this is all part of their grand plan.  And speaking of returns, no surprise that Hank Henshaw is actually still alive, although he has been "upgraded" and refers to himself as Cyborg Superman.  Full of yourself, aren't you, Hank?

I know superhero stories tread a lot of familiar ground, but talk about awkward timing to have this do a "vigilante inspired by another vigilante, only they kill!" story, right after Arrow does one.  I guess their is no cross communication between the show?  Or do they not just care?  Of course, I would care more, but since it's about Jimmy and The Guardian, I don't.  Still not feeling this storyline, especially now that I see that his shield just basically makes him a knock-off of Captain America, in an Iron Man suit.  Yawn!

Not sure where I stand on Alex blowing up on Maggie.  On one hand, Maggie isn't at fault for not feeling the same way about Alex (although, I have my suspicions), and it shouldn't all be on her.  At the same time, she missed some obviously big signals that Alex was hurt by her rejection, but kept barreling through it.  Kind of expected better from Maggie there.  Either way, I don't mind it since I do think this will help Alex move forward and their relationship move forward as well.

Despite the show being about her, Kara has been getting her ass kicked quite a bit lately.  At least not as much as Barry's....

J'onn finds out the truth about M'gann and goes postal, but at least prevents himself from outright killing her.  But now he finds out that by getting her blood, he is turning into a White Martian.  Uh oh!  David Harewood was great in this episode.

Alex finding out the truth about Jimmy was hilarious.  I love that she had poor Winn pinned to the wall, and everyone in the DEO was just going about their business and barely paying attention.  It was like all of them just expected that would be a matter of time before someone tried to kick Winn's ass.

Mon-El totally wants to "mate" with Kara, of course.  And he is so the actual Prince, as well.

The Fortress of Solitude's security system is shit, if you just need a blood sample to get in.  At least have a password, Supes!  With both numbers and capital numbers!

Kind of taking a break from the main stuff, since next week will be the big-ass crossover, which should be fun if, for nothing else, watching Kara and Barry together again, where puppies and rainbows come out of their smiles, all while Oliver just glares at them from the background, looking all emo in his hood.

[Perfect Xero]

"Welcome, Kara Zor-El. That's, uh, an awful lot of blood you seem to be losing."

15 hours ago, KirkB said:

No way would Superman have a killer robot guarding the Fortress, so it was pretty evident the threat was a bluff. Most likely the countdown would ended with the unknown life form being stunned and removed from the premises or something. On the other hand, Clark might want to consider a software patch if the robot protecting all his Kryptonian secrets doesn't have any capacity for pattern recognition (ie something that visually isn't Kara Zor-El and doesn't register as Kara Zor-El suddenly has Kara Zor-El's blood). And as other have noted, how did Cadmus (or Henshaw) even know the Fortress exists, much less where to find it? I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that the only people who knew about it were Clark himself, Kara, James, and presumably Lois.

Jeremiah might have known about the fortress. Hank also knew about some specific secret Kryptonian or Superman project to ask the computer about, so they clearly have some insider information.

[bmoore4026]

17 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I just discovered that he's actually a Superman Revenge Squad (1990's edition) member named Barrage.

Holy shit!  Talk about obscure!

[PatternRec]

Jeremiah: "Kara I'm so proud of you. And tell your sister she never did the dishes well enough." 

[KirkB]

I'd be curious to see the robot's next report to Clark. "Master Kal, Mistress Kara was here. She has...changed."

[sugarbaker design]

On 11/22/2016 at 9:31 AM, diebartdie said:

I think for the same reason that even today whenever any living WW2 Nazis that worked in any capacity in a concentration camp or in Hitler's inner circle they are imprisoned (even though they are really very old people now, what they did was so horrific they go to prison).

But in the real world with civil rights, they're imprisoned after they're tried and found guilty of war crimes.  DEO needs to drain the swamp.

[GHScorpiosRule]

NO FUCKING way Jimmy should have been able to take down a FUCKING SEAL. I said it in the previous episode, but I'm so sick and tired of his whining. And to keep this a secret from Kara? I know the show is telling it otherwise, but she's in a better position to know and tell them what they're doing is STUPID.

As a fan of Batman, I loved the shoutout to him.

And add me to the list of people pissed that Kara is constantly getting her ass handed to her.  Like she couldn't have neutralized Lillian and her goons when she was let out of the cage? But noooo, instead she solar flares so they can take her blood.

I'm positive it will turn out that there is a way to stop J'onn from turning into a White Martian. M'Gann just said that for "plot" and "draaaama" reasons.

[Starfish35]

On 11/21/2016 at 11:08 PM, Lantern7 said:

"Meh" on Monra. Karmon? 

I'm starting to see Karamel in a few places.  

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And add me to the list of people pissed that Kara is constantly getting her ass handed to her.  Like she couldn't have neutralized Lillian and her goons when she was let out of the cage? But noooo, instead she solar flares so they can take her blood.

I noticed quite a bit of green lighting in that room.  Someone as intelligent as Lillian would undoubtedly had some low-level green Kryptonite radiation going on in the background as a precaution, so Kara would never have been at full strength or speed to begin with. Otherwise, yes, since she has super-speed, she could easily have taken Lillian and her goons out before Lillian even so much as said "boo," much less put a bullet through Mon-El's head as she had threatened to do if Kara refused to cooperate.

Edited November 23, 2016 by legaleagle53

[BkWurm1]

On 11/23/2016 at 3:44 PM, legaleagle53 said:

I noticed quite a bit of green lighting in that room.  Someone as intelligent as Lillian would undoubtedly had some low-level green Kryptonite radiation going on in the background as a precaution, so Kara would never have been at full strength or speed to begin with. Otherwise, yes, since she has super-speed, she could easily have taken Lillian and her goons out before Lillian even so much as said "boo," much less put a bullet through Mon-El's head as she had threatened to do if Kara refused to cooperate.

Again, very logical and what I was expecting but in show all we heard about was the super duper strong bars made from Nth metal.  Zero mention of any kryptonite.  

[Primal Slayer]

On 11/23/2016 at 2:51 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

NO FUCKING way Jimmy should have been able to take down a FUCKING SEAL.

Even though I am not a huge fan of his arc, they have him being a black belt martial artist. That is no small feat in itself.

On 11/22/2016 at 0:52 PM, TwistedandBored said:

I am getting sick of how much they have depowered Supergirl and  J’onn this season. I know the depowering J'onn has been a thing since the start but it has gotten worse this season. 

Also, a big ugh to Mon'el and Kara but I expected nothing less from CW. 

I am not a fan at how much they depowered J'onn and M'gann in general. Especially when it comes to their telepathy since that was one of their most interesting power sets, especially M'ganns.

[legaleagle53]

9 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Even though I am not a huge fan of his arc, they have him being a black belt martial artist. That is no small feat in itself.

I am not a fan at how much they depowered J'onn and M'gann in general. Especially when it comes to their telepathy since that was one of their most interesting power sets, especially M'ganns.

You have to remember the reasons that J'onn doesn't like using his telepathic powers too often.  First, if he uses them to alter someone's memories or to probe someone's mind, he runs the risk of actually giving that person permanent amnesia (or worse) because he apparently can't always control the strength of his powers.  Second, using his telepathy at all sends out a homing signal to White Martians, and the last thing he needs is another attack by them -- he's having enough trouble dealing with M'gann and the fact that he's now being assimilated by her (even though she made it clear that that was NEVER her intention).

Edited November 25, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Primal Slayer]

Has it even been established in Supergirl that J'onn has telepathic powers though?

[secnarf]

10 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Has it even been established in Supergirl that J'onn has telepathic powers though?

Yes - he told Alex that Kryptonians are impervious to his telepathy and that Superman finds it hilarious.

[legaleagle53]

And he used them on a security guard to erase the guard's memories of encountering him after J'onn attempted a break-in at Lexicorp, but the results were a disaster in that J'onn ended up accidentally erasing ALL of the guard's memories, leaving him with permanent amnesia.

[Primal Slayer]

41 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

And he used them on a security guard to erase the guard's memories of encountering him after J'onn attempted a break-in at Lexicorp, but the results were a disaster in that J'onn ended up accidentally erasing ALL of the guard's memories, leaving him with permanent amnesia.

Oh, I must have blocked out that of my memory

[StarBrand]

Is there a Maggie thread? If not, what would we call it?

[StarBrand]

We really don't know much about Maggie at all, do we? 

[stealinghome]

Detective Dimples has caught on in other places, lol.

[Karlophe]

On 11/23/2016 at 0:16 PM, Starfish35 said:

I'm starting to see Karamel in a few places.  

So have I, and I actually find it...kind of adorable.Count me as another one who has long since parted company with shame. :shrug:

[Kromm]

On 11/21/2016 at 9:05 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Don't call Hank Henshaw 'Cyborg Superman' unless he is in the Superman getup! Other wise it sounds really stupid.

So true. It was so moronic it actually made me angry.

I was actually liking the "original Hank" reveal otherwise. It was a good idea to have him still alive, but enhanced by CADMUS. But it was so amateurish, so shit writing, to use a label like that which has no relevance to the character that any person with only casual knowledge of DC comics history could see.

They even could have simply had Hank Speechify how HE was the real Superman, and not "the alien" and used that as the declared basis for his name. This is the very move DC has used with Lex Luthor, on occasion, referring to himself as "Superman". But did they?  No. They just used the name with no setup and made it sound stupid.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Kromm

[statsgirl]

If Hank Henshaw hates aliens so much, why would he call himself 'Cyborg Superman'?

 I'm glad about James/ Guardian arc because I like James but mostly because  it takes time away from the Mon El/Kara plot which I hate with the fire of a thousand suns   First because it is so obvious and massively uncreative that I can see each step coming a mile away  and could from the moment I saw that Chris Woods was a regular (Kara wants to mentor Mon El like a puppy, Mon El is a jerk, Mon El redeems himself,  Mon El gets a crush on Kara, cue the rest of the season as love interests).  And second because I find the trope of wastrel redeemed by the love of a good woman a complete turn-off.

David Harewood and Chyler Leigh were great in this episode.

Edited November 26, 2016 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

I think for me, the Kara/Mon-el possible love interest story line (still not convinced he's here for the long haul) might work because while he's clearly a work in progress, I don't see him as a wastrel or even a bad boy, more of a fish out of water and someone that has never had to test himself before.  He has these more hedonistic inclinations, but they seem without real negative intent.  It's just what he was used to, but not necessarily who he really is deep down, if you know what I mean.  Even working as a enforcer for a loan shark, he seemed kind of naive and unaware of how bad he choice really was.  The guy he was roughing up didn't even seem that bothered by it.    

So I guess that's why I'm willing to see it play out before I pronounce judgement.  Just like I am trying REALLLY hard not to simply hate Jimmy's Guardian crap before it's all done (even though I'm already holding a grudge that he got the Guardian name rather than Diggle.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/21/2016 at 9:20 PM, KirkB said:

Okay, I'll give you the Maggie not recognizing Kara as Supergirl thing. But we know for a fact Maggie was in the bar last week and must have seen Alex there with Kara, J'onn, and Mon-El. She didn't know who Kara was at the time but she clearly wasn't human. Shouldn't she remember that? Or has one too many blows to the head as a cop given her a short term memory problem?

Unless she knew specifically what Kara was drinking, how would Maggie know that Kara wasn't human? Clearly, some humans go to the bar -- Maggie's own frequenting of the bar is proof of that, as is Alex's. It could be that she simply thought Alex brought Kara to see this weird place where aliens hang out.

On 11/21/2016 at 9:40 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So if J'onn eventually gets turned back to full Green Martian, can M'gann get transformed into a Green Martian? Otherwise, I don't see the two of them ever pairing off.

Maybe Jeremiah has been deep undercover at Cadmus for 15 years. If so, I can't imagine what he's waiting for.

If I were Supergirl, I'd tell Lena right away about her mother.

Did the cages at Cadmus also prevent Supergirl from using her heat vision/cold breath/a really big gust of air against the bad guys?  It seemed as though she could reach through the bars with her hands. But perhaps if she knocked everyone out, she and Mon El would just be trapped inside the cages until they died.

Maybe J'onn and M'gann can get beyond race. It is sad to think that aliens that can look like anything would be so fixated on biology/culture to become genocidal.

I'm curious if they are going to tell the story of how Hank and Jeremiah survived.

What makes Supergirl (or for that matter, us) think that Lena doesn't already know what Mama Luthor is up to? 

It is pretty sad how little Supergirl tried this episode. Barely tried to fight Hank Henshaw at all. No using her flight or speed and barely using her heat vision. No attempt to use heat vision/freeze breath on the bars themselves, or the locking mechanism. No attempt to simply fly the cage and herself and Mon-El out. Once she got taken out of the cage, no attempt to use her speed or any other of her powers to knock out her captors. 

On 11/21/2016 at 10:32 PM, rtms77 said:

So they wasted the whole vial of blood just for a hand print? And how did Cyborg Henshaw lift a dwarf star key to open the door to the Fortress? I 'm sorry but they really made Kara look like a fool fighting him. She barley moves him or makes a dent while he throws her around like a rag doll? Not very super or even stronger than her cousin which the comics seem to claim. This is what i dislike about the CW and their heroes, they always make them weak when they should be kicking butt. The start of this season has been a disaster for Kara, as she can't seem to hold her own in a fight anymore unlike last year. Every villain this season has kicked her butt big time.

They really need to refocus back on Kara and her story  there is just too much and too many characters. She really is getting shafted in her own show to show off the male heroes and marginalize her. And please don't make me gag with Mon El and the budding romance they are pushing. He is not end game or anywhere  near it. She has no chemistry with him. I was hoping the lead poisoning would lead to him leaving for the future but now he's contemplating  marrying Kara?

Cadmus certainly could and probably did take more than one frigging vial of blood. Or if they only took one vial, that was extremely shortsighted of them.

Even last year, her ability to hold her own in a fight was very plot dependent. One episode she would struggle against random Fort Rozz refugees, the next she would be able to fend off multiple Kryptonian attackers with military training and more experience using their powers. 

On 11/22/2016 at 1:58 AM, BkWurm1 said:

 

 

On 11/22/2016 at 9:15 AM, Jediknight said:

James beat a Navy Seal in a fight?  Come on, that's just stretching the laws of disbelief to the max.

This particular Navy Seal seemed to be more about his gun than hand-to-hand, and James is a black belt in...not sure if they specified which discipline. Plus he's way bigger than the other dude and probably has better armor. 

Speaking of which, I'm having a tough time getting around the transition from "My loved one got killed by someone who beat the system, so now I'm going to hunt that person down and kill him, and after that I'm going to get a high-tech suit and hunt other people down who beat the system."

On another front, I wish Jimmy (or the people writing him) had an ounce of journalistic background/objectivity. Then he could have laid down some epic smackdown on Snapper for being like, "Well there's a video and it shows Guardian shooting the guy." Videos can be faked and manipulated. Where is the actual evidence that Guardian carried a weapon capable of firing the sorts of bullets that Unnamed Vigilante did? The old newspaper saying (which sadly has gone by the wayside today): "If your mother says she loves you, check it out." With Snapper giving that speech to Kara several times, it would have been just desserts if Jimmy gave that back to Snapper.

Also, if they want us to take Jimmy and Winn seriously, they should try to play the secret ID thing a little cooler. I realize that Kara goes all over Catco and the rest of creation talking fairly openly about her life as Supergirl, but Jimmy and Winn should be less for laughs when they are doing there thing. Also, Guardian does need to have more offensive firepower/gadgetry of some sort. And a mask where you can fully see his eyes (and shoot them, etc) seems like a really bad idea.

[KirkB]

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Unless she knew specifically what Kara was drinking, how would Maggie know that Kara wasn't human? Clearly, some humans go to the bar -- Maggie's own frequenting of the bar is proof of that, as is Alex's. It could be that she simply thought Alex brought Kara to see this weird place where aliens hang out.

Unless I'm remembering the scene wrong, I thought the bartender was pretty vocal about stating the drinks she was giving Kara and Mon-El were too strong for humans, something Maggie was right there to overhear. But it's entirely possible I could be mistaken, or even if I'm right she might simply not have heard it at all.

Edited November 28, 2016 by KirkB

[GHScorpiosRule]

46 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Unless I'm remembering the scene wrong, I thought the bartender was pretty vocal about stating the drinks she was giving Kara and Mon-El were too strong for humans, something Maggie was right there to overhear. But it's entirely possible I could be mistaken, or even if I'm right she might simply not have heard it at all.

I could have sworn it was just Kara and Mon-El in a booth when M'Gann brought them their drinks and said what she did about it being super strong. I don't recall Maggie being there until later. Alex showed up, then saw Kara was foxed, then saw Maggie and went to talk to her. When she came back to the booth, Kara was passed out.

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, I can still believe that Maggie is ignorant of Kara being Supergirl but we know a table full of random aliens who sent the drinks over and watched them be drank have to know Kara is alien and since Maggie is a regular who seems to get the good gossip about everything, unless at some point Kara asks her fellow aliens not to say anything, it seems just a matter of time before Maggie would be in the know.  

[regularlyleaded]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, I can still believe that Maggie is ignorant of Kara being Supergirl but we know a table full of random aliens who sent the drinks over and watched them be drank have to know Kara is alien and since Maggie is a regular who seems to get the good gossip about everything, unless at some point Kara asks her fellow aliens not to say anything, it seems just a matter of time before Maggie would be in the know.  

Well, no. There's an assumption that's being made here by many: Everyone is assuming that the aliens that sent drinks to Kara and Mon-El ordered specific drinks for them. We don't actually know that is the case. The aliens could've requested that M'Gann just give them (Kara and Mon-El) something they would enjoy without knowing what that drink was. I've had friends send drinks to other tables without requesting anything specific and instead letting the bartender decide. Thus, the aliens could just as easily believe Mon-El and Kara are humans and that M'gann just delivered some human friendly drinks. After all, the alien rum that M'gann gave them looked like some innocuous liquid. There was nothing unique about the alien rum in it's appearance that said "Poisonous To Humans. Great for Aliens".

Second, there's no guarantee the aliens actually saw Kara herself drink the beverage. Kara and Mon-El were seated in a high-back booth, and Kara herself was on the side of the booth that faced away from the aliens table. The aliens were also seated at a table a good distance from Kara and Mon-El's booth and the alien's table placement was such that to see who sent the drinks, Kara had to stand up a bit in her seat and then turn all the way around to see over the high-backed booth she was sitting in. Thus, it was a hard angle for that specific table of aliens to observe whether Kara downed the drink or not, and again, we don't know that the aliens knew what Kara was drinking.

Third, bars are noisy and in my experience it's hard to hear the conversations being had in other booths next to yours (let alone the conversation at your own booth), especially when you're sitting in booths with high-backs like the one Kara and Mon-el were sitting in. So even with M'gann telling Kara and Mon-El that the drinks were poisonous to human, it's not unreasonable to believe that no one outside Kara and Mon-El heard because, again, bars are noisy and not the optimum place for eavesdropping.

Finally, Maggie never saw Kara there as far as we know. Again, Kara was sitting in a high backed booth located towards the back of the bar with her seat facing away and a good distance (relatively out of sight and definitely out of earshot) from where Maggie was - Maggie was at the pool tables and even Alex didn't see her when she first came in. Later, when Alex got the call/text from the DEO she made eye contact with J'onn and then Alex seemed to turn around (away from J'onn and Kara) and head towards the bar's exit. J'onn also got up from his seat at the bar, but we never see who collected Kara. Because of J'onn's proximity to where Kara was seated, it's not unreasonable to think J'onn was the one who collected Drunk!Kara, but ultimately we don't know for sure because we're never shown. We only see them again when they are all back at the DEO and J'onn is helping Drunk!Kara into a seat and Alex is following them.

Also, if Maggie did see Kara there (which we don't know), there's this:

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Unless she knew specifically what Kara was drinking, how would Maggie know that Kara wasn't human? Clearly, some humans go to the bar -- Maggie's own frequenting of the bar is proof of that, as is Alex's. It could be that she simply thought Alex brought Kara to see this weird place where aliens hang out.

Edited November 28, 2016 by regularlyleaded

[BkWurm1]

Agree to disagree about what the show was implying about who picked the drinks ordered and delivered (letting the bartender decide might happen sometimes but the more conventional TV version is the patron either saying buy them another of whatever they are having or choosing what to send and M'gann was not bringing them refills)  And agree to disagree about the aliens being able to see Kara drink the drinks they sent.  The angles made it look to me like they had a direct view of Kara and Mon-el.

   I do agree that Maggie wouldn't have noticed what Kara was drinking while she was across the bar but I do still think those that were watching would gossip about what they knew. It was implied that the drinks were sent by the more social crowd so it's unlikely they'd not mention to friends and others what they knew even if all what they knew was the girl in the dowdy clothes that hangs with Mon-el is also an alien.  

We may not know certain things for certain but we don't know the opposite is true either.  

[PatternRec]

The new thread isn't open yet so I'll ask here: I don't watch the other three shows. What order are they coming/should I watch them in? 

[ParadoxLost]

Su

3 minutes ago, PatternRec said:

The new thread isn't open yet so I'll ask here: I don't watch the other three shows. What order are they coming/should I watch them in? 

Supergirl (Mon), Flash (Tue), Arrow (Wed), LoT (Thr)

[PatternRec]

Thank you @ParadoxLost 

Edited November 29, 2016 by PatternRec

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/26/2016 at 0:01 AM, statsgirl said:

If Hank Henshaw hates aliens so much, why would he call himself 'Cyborg Superman'?

So for some comics background: Back in the 90s, there was a big comic to-do where Superman was "killed" by a monster called Doomsday. Shortly after his death, four figures emerged with similar powers who either claimed to be him or were inspired by him. One was a guy named Steel who was basically an engineer like Iron Man (except his gimmick was that he had a hammer that he could throw). Another was Superboy, who turned out to be a clone with DNA that was a mix of Superman and Lex Luthor (insert slashy fan fic here). Then there was the Eradicator. And finally, there was Cyborg Superman. Cyborg Superman acted on the surface the most like OG Superman, but he really turned out to be an old enemy of OG Superman's named Hank Henshaw. Hank was in league with another alien and together they were responsible for destroying a city before the other Supermen and OG Superman stopped him.

So in the context of that story, it made sense for Henshaw to call himself Cyborg Superman, because he was a cyborg who pretended to be Superman and even got himself some Kryptonian DNA.

Here, as far as we know, he has no connection with Superman. 

On 11/22/2016 at 9:21 PM, thuganomics85 said:

I know superhero stories tread a lot of familiar ground, but talk about awkward timing to have this do a "vigilante inspired by another vigilante, only they kill!" story, right after Arrow does one.  I guess their is no cross communication between the show?  Or do they not just care?  Of course, I would care more, but since it's about Jimmy and The Guardian, I don't.  Still not feeling this storyline, especially now that I see that his shield just basically makes him a knock-off of Captain America, in an Iron Man suit.  Yawn!

 

On 11/22/2016 at 6:36 PM, anonyposter said:

So the White Martians did experiments and found a way to destroy the Green Martians by having their blood transform them into White Martians.  But they decided to inject this material into themselves, on the off chance that one day a Green Martian would need a blood transfusion from a White Martian?  How bizarre is that?

It turns out that OG Guardian was created in the 40s by one of the same people who created Cap.

I am operating under the assumption that the White Martians were incubating the virus within themselves and then would have forced Green Martians to turn into White Martians. Perhaps, in fact, they did and helped exterminate the Green ones, but M'Gann jetted before that happened.

[yellowfred]

My understanding of the whole "J'onn's turning into a White Martian" thing was that it was just her blood, not necessarily anything added to it.  Like, the White Martian's had been doing experiments and figured out that giving a Green Martian a large enough transfusion of White Martian blood would turn them into a White Martian.

[Perfect Xero]

Cyborg Superman makes sense if you view it as Hank "reclaiming" the man part of Superman.

"You're not brave... men are brave. You say that you want to help people, but you can't feel their pain... their mortality... It's time you learn what it means to be a man."

In fact, we should probably just assume that the villains this season have the exact same motives as Batman from the movies.