S02.E04: Abominations

[scarynikki12]

Quote

When the Legends discover a time Aberration in 1863, they find themselves fighting for survival during the Civil War with Confederate soldiers who have been turned into zombies.

 

[Primal Slayer]

While this was one of the better episodes this season, it surely highlighted the shows problems. Why are they all of a sudden worried about changing history? Since the first episode they've been running around doing whatever they want without so much of a care in the world. The boring thing is, is that they get off scot free. The future isn't being effected at all, it is getting extremely routine at this point.

They are seriously under utilizing Vixens powers. She can channel any animal in the world. Be as fast as a cheetah and knock that guy to his feet. Channel a chameleon and blend in with her surroundings. Though I shouldn't be surprised tbh.

[Jediknight]

Mick called him Ray and Raymond, and he gave him Snart's gun.  Their bromance keeps growing.  Seriously, I love their friendship, great job pairing them up.

Sara is too awesome for words, if only Nyssa was there, they could have ended the Civil War in a few hours.

Good episode, but I don't know how I feel about Sara and Nate as a romantic pairing.

[bettername2come]

I consistently go into this show with low expectations, and this season they have consistently exceeded them. Good work from Franz Drameh. I really enjoy Stein and Jax's dynamic. I love Stein's completely rational fear of zombies. Despite the growing bromance between Ray and Mick, I did not see the cold gun coming. I really want to see characters from Flash and Arrow react to that friendship. I do agree they (like most time travel series) are wishy-washy about what constitutes appropriate meddling in the past.

Is that really Grant Gustin's voice being digitally altered for Future!Barry? 

[Sakura12]

I was wondering if Snart was ever going to get a mention. I'm okay with Ray getting Snart's gun for now. This was a good episode for Jax, I wish Amaya had more to do. 

I loved that Sara's first time being called Captain Lance was by General Grant. I think she's doing better than I expected as leader. Rip wasn't exactly the best teacher. She worries about her team and wants to keep them all alive. I don't feel like they are thinking of romance between Nate and Sara, just that Sara's starting to accept him as a new member of the team. She already accepted Vixen from the last episode. 

However they do need to make up their minds whether or not changing history matters or use made up historical figures and only mention the real ones. I still don't really care that much since I watch this show for the adventure over realism. 

[squidprincess]

I was glad to see them paying lip service to the timeline at least this time.  But what happened to the missing time pirate?  He seems like a bit of a loose end.

Gideon hasn't been speaking a lot this season.  I miss her.

Edited November 4, 2016 by squidprincess

[Writing Wrongs]

Between this show and Timeless, history is screwed.

[kdm07]

This time around, I was less focused on the timeline stuff. I came into this episode thinking I was going to be really frustrated with how they dealt with the slavery plot line but all things considered, they at least weren't patronising and that last scene with Jax & Stein was really well done.

Uh...what else happened? Yes, zombies! Even in the 1800s we can't escape the influence of TWD. 

[Lantern7]

That was fun. Okay, Jax got put through the ringer, but he came out stronger for it. And zombies! In the Civil War! Even with Victor Garber being s-s-sc-scared most of the episode, still one helluva hour.

Ray getting the cold gun? Did not see that coming. Class move from Mick. I'm betting Ray finds the thing that make stuff actually freeze.

Nate is still trying to be the biggest goober on the show.

ETA: Mick "waking up"? So funny. The big eyes sold it.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, squidprincess said:

 But what happened to the missing time pirate?  He seems like a bit of a loose end.

He was zombified, so probably killed with the other zombies in the explosion.

Can Ray cure any condition and modify any serum in a matter of hours? Why does Earth still have diseases? 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, squidprincess said:

Gideon hasn't been speaking a lot this season.  I miss her.

Can Gideon track everyone on the ship? If so, wouldn't she be able to tell where Mick was/if he was conscious? I feel like that wouldn't be so difficult.

[tarotx]

I enjoyed the episode. I think they are really using the cast well compared to last season. I hate zombies. I would so be Stein. Rory as a Zombie was the perfect choice since Sara already was one last year and no one else is as scary :p I think they handled Ray's "hero" complex decently and the Civil war the best they have handled time travel. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by tarotx

[Lantern7]

Cut scene: "Thanks, Mick. Do I have to wear the parka?" "Nah. That doesn't work outside of the comics."

[benteen]

2 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Between this show and Timeless, history is screwed.

Heheh.  So true.

I really enjoyed this episode.  All three storylines were strong and let the characters shine.

Unexpected turn with Ray being given Snart's gun but I love the development.

I was disappointed in the portrayal of General Grant.  Liked the last season between him and Sara but found the portrayal bland.  Did like Nat's line about him being taller than he expected.

[squidprincess]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Can Gideon track everyone on the ship? If so, wouldn't she be able to tell where Mick was/if he was conscious? I feel like that wouldn't be so difficult.

I don't think Ray and Martin asked her.  Though I feel like season 1 Gideon would have volunteered this information.   However, it also occurs to me that she didn't warn about Amaya stowing away last episode either.  I've been wondering if there wasn't something wrong with her, since she hasn't been nearly as helpful/communicative this season.

[Delphi]

I miss Gideon as well!!  I'm partial to sentient computers.   I think her reduced role is because of Nate.   Who I also like, so conflicted.

If I can brush off the doctor running through time doing whatever he wants then I can handle the legends being ridiculous. 

I love Sara.   This is that forever kind of love that ma spoke of. 

@ItCouldBeWorse I imagine Gideon is helping with the highly advanced medical cures . 

I don't mind Ray getting the cold gun,  that's fine I guess.   But is there a reason that Ray, with even more advanced technology and the benefit of time travel,  is unable to build a new suit?  Aside from budget I mean. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

Sara going out to get a visual aid to explain zombies was gold.

She seemed fairly surprised at finding Nate alive, so apparently, she wasn't at all sure he would survive the blast. Interesting. (FWIW, that's a good use of someone whose primary power is nigh invulnerability).

Ray continues to f up all over the place, losing control of zombie!Mick, can't help Sara when she feels compelled to ask for back up, and then gets knocked out out by Mick later. I hope Gideon can regrow the foot he's inevitably going to shoot himself in with that freeze gun.

Zombies or not, happy to see the Confederacy treated as nothing other than the bad guys. 

Martin's zombiephobia seemed to come out of nowhere with zero motivation, but Victor Garber sold it because of course he did. Happy Halloween, Martin Stein!

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, kdm07 said:

This time around, I was less focused on the timeline stuff. I came into this episode thinking I was going to be really frustrated with how they dealt with the slavery plot line but all things considered, they at least weren't patronising and that last scene with Jax & Stein was really well done.

 

Weren't patronizing?  Sure they tried but they tried soooooo badly.  

I suffered deep second hand embarrassment for most of the bad cliché’s stuffed into Jax’s storyline.  That part of the story deserved better.  Did like the conversation between Jax and Stein at the end, but I still don’t think the spiritual at the end worked.  (Also painfully timed IMO when it happened during the episode, but then the whole conversation in the barn was painful since I didn't buy how they reacted to Jax at all.) They were trying too hard at that point.  Should have ended on the strength of the conversation.    

Nate was even more Ray-lite but in the most boring way (until they blew him up.)  Ray at least packed lunches, lol.  (Sprouts not withstanding) And since when can Zombies be killed by bullets but stay alive when their head is cut off?  Still, fun scene, lol.  

Stein thinking Mick was a zombie even before he was a zombie was funny, but some of it was too over the top for me.  He is a scientist after all.  Did laugh when Stein was begging Ray if he was dead, to stay dead. And this exchange had me howling:

“Was I just trying to kiss you?”

“I can only hope, Mr. Rory.”

Not sure if Grant would have known what a vaccine was, lol, but nice of Sara to keep him informed.  

Mick gave Ray the Cold Gun!!!!!!!!!!!!! That alone made the episode worth it.  Really looking forward to seeing their partnership unfold.  Funny, until RIGHT before it happened, I completely didn't see the gift of the gun coming but now it seems so obvious a choice.  There is so much to look forward to with that partnership.  

Edited November 4, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Delphi]

7 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 And since when can Zombies be killed by bullets but stay alive when their head is cut off?  Still, fun scene, lol.  

I loved that though.!  I expected her to bring back a whole zombie,  like everyone in every zombie movie ever.   Just the unliving head was so much more fun.  

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Delphi said:

I loved that though.!  I expected her to bring back a whole zombie,  like everyone in every zombie movie ever.   Just the unliving head was so much more fun.  

It was a fun twist, it's just that I then couldn't understand how any of the Zombies could be killed if decapitation and blowing them up wouldn't work (I assumed since it didn't work when Firestorm did it).  Then suddenly bullets were killing them?  Just threw me.   

[Starfish35]

I liked it.  I still could take or leave Nate, and the absence of Gideon bothered me.  I'm assuming Amy Pemberton (voice of Gideon) has not been available?  I don't know.  But whether it's that or whether it's giving Nate more to do, they either need to bring her back or explain why she's not there much anymore. 

I was worried needlessly on how Ray's storyline without the suit was going to be handled. This was perfect, and Mick giving Ray the cold gun! :) Looking forward to seeing how that plays out.  

I like that they're doing different character combinations with each episode.  I thought that was one of the strengths of the first part of last season, but they kind of got away from that as the season went on. 

Best line of the episode: "please don't be dead.  On the other hand, if you're dead, please stay dead." 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Starfish35

[Proteus]

I loved the episode. In fact, I think it was probably one of the best.

[squidprincess]

1 hour ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

Ray continues to f up all over the place, losing control of zombie!Mick, can't help Sara when she feels compelled to ask for back up, and then gets knocked out out by Mick later. I hope Gideon can regrow the foot he's inevitably going to shoot himself in with that freeze gun.

It wasn't Ray's fault that he couldn't help Sara.  They were in a bit of a crisis after all.

I admit, Nate's screw ups tend to bother me more than Ray's.  With Ray's, I generally see how they happen.  He's not used to the idea he can crash land in Japan and someone can steal his suit.  He's not used to having to restrain a zombied teammate.

But Nate is the actual historian.  One who has specifically studied both time periods that we see him in.  But in both cases, he seems to have no idea how to conduct himself appropriately or respectfully given the cultural setting that he's supposed to have an expertise in.

It'd be one thing if I thought Nate was supposed to have social awareness issues, like Ray does, but I don't get that same sense with him.  

I really want to like Nate.  I love the idea of a newbie perspective on the team.  And I really do like his enthusiasm and the sheer joy he has in time travel.  But I don't really see what his area of expertise brings to the table that Gideon didn't.  I don't see where his social blunders are necessary when we have characters like Ray (for awkwardness), Amaya (for temper) or Mick (for...being Mick), to potentially cause trouble when they get to their destination.  The invulnerability is at least unique and it was used well in this episode, but the show managed just fine without an invulnerable character before, so I'm not sure why he's necessary.

I mean, I look at Amaya, and I can see immediately what she brings to the table: she has a new ability, a different and more disciplined approach, she has an outsider's perspective for both time travel and the others' home era, she's a source of internal conflict, and she is generally competent.  She's also a woman of color, which is helpful when you have a team of so many white men.

I don't get as much from Nate.  Though I admit, I could also be biased and resentful because my favorite hasn't been around for a few episodes.  :-)

Edited November 4, 2016 by squidprincess

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Delphi said:

But is there a reason that Ray, with even more advanced technology and the benefit of time travel,  is unable to build a new suit?  Aside from budget I mean. 

He needs the dwarf star alloy to be able to rebuild it, and that isn't that easy to get.

[TDT]

Ray using Snart's gun should be interesting..assuming they dont run into a alt-u version lol

Next week's episode looks good,i wonder just how many 80s references will be crammed into it(i think weve seen Jax in the preview rocking the Miami Vice outfit,will Sara,Amaya and Gideon adapt valley girl slang..? )

[diebartdie]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

<SNIP>

... since when can Zombies be killed by bullets but stay alive when their head is cut off?  Still, fun scene, lol.  

<SNIP>

In most modern zombie stories, zeds can only be stopped by destroying the brain so just cutting the head off only creates a very nasty ankle biter.

[ottoDbusdriver]

These "Legends" really are the worst at time travel -- just blathering on about time travel in front of the locals like its's an every day conversation topic.

Despite the fact that Nate and Sara had just been captured, I find it difficult to believe they would then just let her walk out of the Union camp regardless of whether she left a hostage or not.

11 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I was glad to see them paying lip service to the timeline at least this time.  But what happened to the missing time pirate?  He seems like a bit of a loose end.

Gideon hasn't been speaking a lot this season.  I miss her.

Just assuming the time pirate was killed seems like a really weak point -- no one from the Waverider even thought to go looking for him or mention him.  And I'm not sure how they know that they caught/vaccinated ALL the zombies.  Maybe Gideon helped, but again there was no sign of Gideon this episode.

Would fire really destroy the timeship escape pod ?  I would think they were made out of sturdier stuff.

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

ETA: Mick "waking up"? So funny. The big eyes sold it.

Apparently the aerosol vaccine also included a washcloth, since all the fluids on Mick's face suddenly disappeared too after he "woke up".

39 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

In most modern zombie stories, zeds can only be stopped by destroying the brain so just cutting the head off only creates a very nasty ankle biter.

They was even a blatant 'Walking Dead" reference, but I was kind of hoping that when they spotted the approaching zombies that someone would make a 'puppies and kittens' reference  (that's from Z Nation).

[benteen]

I would assume that in this timeline, Grant's army got restocked because he said they pretty much used all their ammunition fighting the zombies.

[kdm07]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Weren't patronizing?  Sure they tried but they tried soooooo badly.  

Considering how badly most shows handle this type of material, not patronizing is fine by me. I was prepared for worse tbh

[diebartdie]

12 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

<SNIP>
They are seriously under utilizing Vixens powers. She can channel any animal in the world. Be as fast as a cheetah and knock that guy to his feet. Channel a chameleon and blend in with her surroundings. Though I shouldn't be surprised tbh.

Right and to me, it's starting to feel a little (probably unintentionally) racist at this point. I mean, unless Im wrong (and I could very well be), we've mainly only ever seen her call upon gorilla powers. Now Im calling this a bit racist because throughout history, racists have always called African American people "monkeys", "apes", "gorillas" and here's vixen, over and over again summoning the ape spirit or whatever that is. Why not a powerful elephant? Lion? Python? Ostrich (dont laugh! Those things can kick like mutherfuckers)? Anyway, I hope TPTB get off this lazy gorilla spirit thing and branch her powers out, otherwise the stench of racism might stink it all up.

[ottoDbusdriver]

7 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

Right and to me, it's starting to feel a little (probably unintentionally) racist at this point. I mean, unless Im wrong (and I could very well be), we've mainly only ever seen her call upon gorilla powers. Now Im calling this a bit racist because throughout history, racists have always called African American people "monkeys", "apes", "gorillas" and here's vixen, over and over again summoning the ape spirit or whatever that is. Why not a powerful elephant? Lion? Python? Ostrich (dont laugh! Those things can kick like mutherfuckers)? Anyway, I hope TPTB get off this lazy gorilla spirit thing and branch her powers out, otherwise the stench of racism might stink it all up.

Maybe the gorilla was the default with the CGI package they had to buy to pull off this effect for Vixen --  and they are just waiting to see how popular the character is to determine if they buy more animal effects.  But it seems kind of odd that she hasn't summoned other animals -- I'd like to see her summon the powers of an elephant or an eagle (would that mean she could fly ?).

[Sakura12]

She's used a tiger a couple of times. How exactly do her powers work? Does she gain the animals abilities? A gorilla makes sense to me because they are strong and have hands to grab people and throw them around. 

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I don't think Ray and Martin asked her.  Though I feel like season 1 Gideon would have volunteered this information.   However, it also occurs to me that she didn't warn about Amaya stowing away last episode either.  I've been wondering if there wasn't something wrong with her, since she hasn't been nearly as helpful/communicative this season.

Maybe she misses Rip? Hey, even an AI can grow an attachment to the person that has been by their side for years! 

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. The many, many inconsistencies aside, the episode was a lot of fun. 

I felt for Amaya and Jax's story. I think the most powerful moment was when Jax told Amaya that they couldn't help the poor woman who was being whipped. Seeing the pain in both of their eyes definitely hurt. The second most powerful moment was when Stein felt Jax's terror and anger and he knew that he couldn't do anything to help. This was a Jax heavy episode, for sure, and it delivered. Even though there were so many cliches in his story and they didn't always hit, it still worked for me as a whole. 

As did the other storylines. Zombie Mick was hilarious. Stein being terrified of zombies was a fun addition to that. Mick giving Ray the cold gun was definitely surprising, but I knew that Mick would want a partner. I just assumed he'd get Amaya. But I always enjoyed Mick/Ray's bromance, even last season, so it worked. Plus, it'll be a small detour to Ray presumably recreating his suit, or finding a new suit or something. 

Captain Lance and Ulysses Grant! I enjoyed their dynamic and how he easily accepted her as the leader. Nate is still not great. He needs to be a better historian, because I feel like they're squandering his ability on the team. But the way he took out those zombies actually worked, and he wasn't even sure if he could "Steel Out", so that's something. I guess he's enjoying the fact that he doesn't have to be as careful anymore. I can see why, after his entire life of being careful and not being able to do anything that'll hurt himself, he's going somewhat overboard now with his recklessness. Just....just let him not be a bumbling idiot in history, show. Leave that to Ray. Let him be excited, but intelligent when it comes to the cultural differences and historical differences. 

I also agree that they need to give Amaya more animals to call upon for her powers. Strength isn't the only thing that she needs to use. 

[darkestboy]

Best episode of the season so far. I found Stein's zombie actually hilarious and having Mick being temporarily infected led to some funny moments in this one.

Mick giving Ray Snart's cold gun was unexpected but I liked the gesture nonetheless.

Nate was better utilised here than last week but I really hope they don't go down a romance route with him and Sara.

Jax and Amaya had some of the best moments of this episode and I liked seeing their reactions and helping the slaves in this one.

At some point, Stein and Jax are going to have to tell Sara about Barry's message from the future, 9/10

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

She's used a tiger a couple of times. How exactly do her powers work? Does she gain the animals abilities? A gorilla makes sense to me because they are strong and have hands to grab people and throw them around. 

The animated series shows the present day Vixen gaining flight when she channels a bird, wall crawling as a spider, etc.  For obvious real life reasons Amaya hasn't unleashed those powers.  It's similar to how a Green Lantern ring would be shown in a live action TV show - capable of doing virtually anything but restricted to the basics because of budget. 

Jax is more sheltered that I thought if he was oblivious enough to equate being black in 21st century America to being black in the heart of the Confederacy during the Civil War.  I was surprised he wasn't whipped by the plantation owner as some sort of twisted payback for not intervening earlier.

[MarkHB]

15 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Is that really Grant Gustin's voice being digitally altered for Future!Barry?

He's being credited in the list of actors for the episodes, so I would say yes.  (I note the actress who plays Gideon is also getting credited as a regular as well!)

My hunch is that Barry's message possibly relates to the crossover storyline?

 

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

The animated series shows the present day Vixen gaining flight when she channels a bird, wall crawling as a spider, etc.  For obvious real life reasons Amaya hasn't unleashed those powers.

Yeah; the gorilla effect was paid for when Megalyn appeared on Arrow.  I noticed that the animated Vixen channeled a fish last week; I was hoping she'd come up coughing and sputtering as she did it in a chlorinated pool.

[Sakura12]

I don't understand where people are getting Sara/Nate vibes. I just thought she was happy she didn't kill the new guy on her second mission as leader. That's why Grant had a talk with her about being responsible for sending out your people on dangerous missions. She probably would've had the same reaction if it was Vixen. Of course then people would think Sara's into her too. I guess that's part of her character being she's into men and women. Although most of her interest appears to be with women these days. 

I also am not going to nitpick on the CG stuff, that's about the budget and nothing else. This isn't a cartoon where people can draw whatever their imaginations want to see. This is a show on CW TV budget. I'm happy with what we get. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

She's used a tiger a couple of times. How exactly do her powers work? Does she gain the animals abilities? A gorilla makes sense to me because they are strong and have hands to grab people and throw them around. 

She just gains their abilities. It doesnt transform her physically except if it's claws or gills. The special effects shouldn't be that hard to do since they don't have to worry about them looking realistic and it lasts for all of 5 seconds.

If she did a cheetah, all we would see is her running fast, a snake, all she would do is hug them and she would be strong enough to constrict them. Especially since they aren't using Atom effects, it should free them up a bit to use it in other places. If anything it just comes down to them being lazy and unimaginative.

[Delphi]

9 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

He needs the dwarf star alloy to be able to rebuild it, and that isn't that easy to get.

I'd buy that if they weren't running around in a warship Tardis and hadn't been to a future with dozens of ATOM suits.

[BkWurm1]

9 hours ago, squidprincess said:

It wasn't Ray's fault that he couldn't help Sara.  They were in a bit of a crisis after all.

I admit, Nate's screw ups tend to bother me more than Ray's.  With Ray's, I generally see how they happen.  He's not used to the idea he can crash land in Japan and someone can steal his suit.  He's not used to having to restrain a zombied teammate.

But Nate is the actual historian.  One who has specifically studied both time periods that we see him in.  But in both cases, he seems to have no idea how to conduct himself appropriately or respectfully given the cultural setting that he's supposed to have an expertise in.

It'd be one thing if I thought Nate was supposed to have social awareness issues, like Ray does, but I don't get that same sense with him.  

I really want to like Nate.  I love the idea of a newbie perspective on the team.  And I really do like his enthusiasm and the sheer joy he has in time travel.  But I don't really see what his area of expertise brings to the table that Gideon didn't.  I don't see where his social blunders are necessary when we have characters like Ray (for awkwardness), Amaya (for temper) or Mick (for...being Mick), to potentially cause trouble when they get to their destination.  The invulnerability is at least unique and it was used well in this episode, but the show managed just fine without an invulnerable character before, so I'm not sure why he's necessary.

I mean, I look at Amaya, and I can see immediately what she brings to the table: she has a new ability, a different and more disciplined approach, she has an outsider's perspective for both time travel and the others' home era, she's a source of internal conflict, and she is generally competent.  She's also a woman of color, which is helpful when you have a team of so many white men.

I don't get as much from Nate.  Though I admit, I could also be biased and resentful because my favorite hasn't been around for a few episodes.  :-)

Yeah, there's nothing about Nate specifically that makes me dislike him, I just find him being on the show confusing since he doesn't have an obvious niche and I also did start side eyeing him after it seemed like the show blew up Ray's suit just so Nate alone could be the only guy encased in armor.  It doesn't help how similarly they write Ray and Nate's dialogue.  It just invites comparison.  Hopefully Nate will become more of his own man in the future.    

8 hours ago, TDT said:

Ray using Snart's gun should be interesting..assuming they dont run into a alt-u version lol

Next week's episode looks good,i wonder just how many 80s references will be crammed into it(i think weve seen Jax in the preview rocking the Miami Vice outfit,will Sara,Amaya and Gideon adapt valley girl slang..? )

I'm hoping we get some interesting reactions from Amaya.  The rest are going back in time for the 80's, Amaya is traveling 40 some years in the future.  It's her perspective that I'm most curious about.  

4 hours ago, diebartdie said:

In most modern zombie stories, zeds can only be stopped by destroying the brain so just cutting the head off only creates a very nasty ankle biter.

See now I have a logical answer and it doesn't bug me anymore!  :D

3 hours ago, kdm07 said:

Considering how badly most shows handle this type of material, not patronizing is fine by me. I was prepared for worse tbh

Fair point.  I get that the show only had like ten minutes to do that whole story line but they just lost me when Jax was in the barn.  First of all, the reaction to his smooth hands (which can only be seen at a distance in the dark) made no sense because a plantation like that would have had house slaves that wouldn't have had calluses all over their hands so everyone suddenly trying to explain to Jax about the horrors of slavery when I couldn't understand why they would think he wouldn't already know made no sense, I mean even if I was willing to accept that the smooth hands was a legitimate reason for them to know he wasn't a slave (which I don't) why would they think a black man in the south in the middle of the civil war would be so unaware of these things they face?  I was just too aware of the bad writing in the barn.  

Other parts worked, like how the idiot plantation owner would rather be eaten by zombies than team up with the slaves to fight them and that first scene where Amaya and Jax felt they had no choice but to stand and do nothing, and when Jax wanted to savor the moment as the fire took down the plantation house, those moments I think worked better since we actually saw it happen rather than just an info dump that ended in a musical number.  That part didn't ring true.

But yeah, it could have been a lot worse and it was nice that no one was trying to pretend there was anything redeeming about slavery and I did really enjoy when they pointed out to Jax that his name came from two pretty famous slave owners since i was thinking the very same thing (And Jefferson was doubly bad since there was Jefferson Davis as well as Thomas Jefferson.)

  

 

3 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Right and to me, it's starting to feel a little (probably unintentionally) racist at this point. I mean, unless Im wrong (and I could very well be), we've mainly only ever seen her call upon gorilla powers. Now Im calling this a bit racist because throughout history, racists have always called African American people "monkeys", "apes", "gorillas" and here's vixen, over and over again summoning the ape spirit or whatever that is. Why not a powerful elephant? Lion? Python? Ostrich (dont laugh! Those things can kick like mutherfuckers)? Anyway, I hope TPTB get off this lazy gorilla spirit thing and branch her powers out, otherwise the stench of racism might stink it all up.

I get your reaction but I think laziness, being oblivious to optics (like these show runners are about EVERYTHING) and pure lack of budget is the likely reason and nothing more. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Artsda]

Colonel Sanders! LOL

Also loved the Walking Dead reference and zombie plot.

Been loving this season, only missing Snart. Not missing Rip at all. 

[Lokiberry]

Okay, why didn't Zombie!Mick bite Ray when he was unconcious? I mean, he knocked him out  and left him there un-chewed on, and then was pretty eager to make a meal out of Stein. Did his "bromantic" feelings counter the zombie urges? Yeah, I know I'm reading too much into typical flarrowverse bad writing, but I'm trying to find something enjoyable in this episode and Mick and Ray are it.

I didn't like the zombies, or super scared Stein. They tried too hard with the slavery story, and the writing was cringe worthy.  Also, I truly, deeply hate Nate.

 

[kathyk24]

I'll take Nate over Ray any time. Ray's whining about not having his suit made me want to reach through the tv and slap him. Jax was awesome. I realize that the slave storyline could be seen as heavy handed but I'm fine with that considering some people want to minimize the impact of the Civil War.

[TwistedandBored]

The episode while solid felt disjointed such as going from a serious topic to just a funny one. It felt jarring.  Anyways, I really liked Jax/Amaya storyline. However, I am getting tired of them using Gorilla as the go-to animal for Vixen. Find another animal writers. 

Sara on the other hand continues to be awesome in her new role. I loved how no one in the team questions her decision. They just respect. Mick is just awesome. 

[Last Time Lord]

It's dawning on me that after the Vandal Savage plot was wrapped up, this show has essentially become a more action-y Doctor Who.

And it is Awesome.

[mrspidey]

21 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Can Ray cure any condition and modify any serum in a matter of hours? Why does Earth still have diseases? 

Because Earth doesn't have the Waverider with all its futuristic medical tech. 

[Cthulhudrew]

That was a pretty good episode; aside from the season opener, this show has really been a pretty abrupt about-face from last season, and for the better. There are still some of the same flaws, but it's nowhere as glaringly bad as it was, at least so far.

I thought Jax (and Franz Drameh) was good this episode, and I was pleasantly surprised to see them actually decide to tackle the racism issue that somehow never seemed to crop up in their time travels last season. And they handled it with dignity and in a more mature manner than I thought they would. Good to the show for that one!

Nate's "Gee golly" approach to his interactions with historic personages is still annoying, particularly when he's so gung-ho about being the guy who should be the face because he's a historian. I hope that changes soon. Speaking of Nate, although the costuming was otherwise good with everyone in this episode, I really wish they'd have made him do something with his hair. That hairdo really stood out from the rest of the outfit. It wouldn't hurt them to take a few more efforts to blend in besides just throw on a new set of duds.

And- small nitpick- while it's nice to see them try to broaden the crew's skill set a bit, and not have it quite so heavily top loaded with "generic, multipurpose" science types (*cough* Flash *cough*), it is kind of an abrupt change to have Ray move from- I guess, physicist slash inventor?- to biomed guy.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[Cthulhudrew]

On 11/3/2016 at 6:32 PM, Sakura12 said:

They do need to make up their minds whether or not changing history matters or use made up historical figures and only mention the real ones. I still don't really care that much since I watch this show for the adventure over realism. 

I agree. If they're actually serious about this "fixing history"/Quantum Leap stuff, then what they should do is have history wrong from the get-go, introduce what's messed up in the timeline, and then have them fix it, rather than just send them into an actual historical situation with real historical figures and then just go willy-nilly and screw around. This episode was a good step in that direction, as opposed to the "let's off the shogun and not care" approach last episode. Not perfect, but at least they made an attempt to show them doing the right thing this time.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, Last Time Lord said:

It's dawning on me that after the Vandal Savage plot was wrapped up, this show has essentially become a more action-y Doctor Who.

And it is Awesome.

I've taken to thinking of it as The A-Team with a time van, and I agree on the awesome.

[Last Time Lord]

4 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

I've taken to thinking of it as The A-Team with a time van, and I agree on the awesome.

They do love it when a plan comes together...