S02.E04: Abominations

[benteen]

Quote

I thought Jax (and Franz Drameh) was good this episode, and I was pleasantly surprised to see them actually decide to tackle the racism issue that somehow never seemed to crop up in their time travels last season.

They did address it to an extent last season when they visited that town in 1958 and Rip told Jax to be careful.

[thuganomics85]

Hey, at least the team actually wasn't responsible for the zombie outbreak!  That's one of the few times they can't be blamed for fucking with the timeline.  It really is funny and confusing over how one minute they seem to give a damn and then the next minute they don't, but I kind of don't care anymore, as long as they do hilarious things like zombie Confederate solders!

Jax isn't my favorite character in the group, but it was nice to have him get the A-plot this time; along Amaya; and they at least handled the issues about slavery and that time period a bit better then I thought they would.  Honestly, the biggest downside was them starting the season as late as they did, because I feel like a lot of this has already been brought up on Timeless (Jax's remark about having to deal with racism in any time period was very similar to a line Rufus said on that show as well.)  Also, I kept waiting for one the slaves they freed to end up being another historical figure, but I guess that wasn't to be.

Captain Lance getting to meet General Grant was great.  I loved how quickly even he; despite the time period; was quick to listen to her and treat her as a leader, once it was obvious that Nate was out of his element.... again.  Captain Lance really has been one of the best decisions this show has done this season.... sorry Rip!

Martin and Ray dealing with Zombie Mick was entertaining.  Martin would totally be someone who would have an irrational/actually very rational fear of zombies.  Mick being in zombie did decrease his one-liners, but he still got a great one with his "Professor?  What's going on?  Was I just trying to kiss you?"  I like that it didn't even sound like Mick was disgust by it or anything like the norm, and just generally seemed confused about what in the hell was going on.  Him giving Ray the Cold Gun and making him his new partner was surprisingly nice, although if/when Snart does return, there has to be a moment where he sees this and goes "You replaced me with the boy scout, Mick?!  That's.... cold!"  I can even here Wentworth Miller's delivery of a line like that.

Chekov's Old Man Barry speech, I see.  They'll keep dragging it out, until the time is right to finally hear the entire thing.

[jhlipton]

On 11/3/2016 at 10:30 PM, kdm07 said:

This time around, I was less focused on the timeline stuff. I came into this episode thinking I was going to be really frustrated with how they dealt with the slavery plot line but all things considered, they at least weren't patronising and that last scene with Jax & Stein was really well done.

On 11/4/2016 at 11:35 AM, cambridgeguy said:

Jax is more sheltered that I thought if he was oblivious enough to equate being black in 21st century America to being black in the heart of the Confederacy during the Civil War.  I was surprised he wasn't whipped by the plantation owner as some sort of twisted payback for not intervening earlier.

I wanted to slap Jax when  he said he would be invisible (especially since he didn't even try!).  I think that he and Amaya should have had a talk right at the outset -- "We're going to see some hateful and despicable things, but our main task has to be keeping these things from going on longer.  Do we save 20 or do we save 1000?"  Then have a moment of crisis at the whipping scene when it all becomes REAL.

"Follow the Drinking Gourd" isn't a song about hope -- it's a song from the Underground Railroad telling runaways how to find north using the Big Dipper.

 

On 11/4/2016 at 1:10 AM, benteen said:

I was disappointed in the portrayal of General Grant.

He wasn't near as scruffy, in look or manner, as the real Grant.

On 11/4/2016 at 1:48 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Not sure if Grant would have known what a vaccine was, lol, but nice of Sara to keep him informed. 

Smallpox vaccine had been around since 1798.

[scarynikki12]

I both enjoyed and disliked this version of Grant, which is a weird feeling. On the one hand, this Grant wasn't an alcoholic, nor did he seem to be that great a military leader. On the other, this Grant seemed to have a crush on Sara and was clearly appreciative of her and that's something I can always get on board  with. 

I actually liked that the slave owner didn't turn to Jax and the other man for help in the attack. I hate those last minute changes of the heart that show up in tv and movies so that would have made me stabby.  Plus seeing him get eaten by Confederate zombies was soooooooo satisfying. 

I'm still not feeling Nate. If he's here to offer a history perspective, to keep the team from making changes that are too significant, then great. Instead he's the first one running around making those changes and acting like a history ignorant goober. 

Speaking of, I love that the Ray/Mick friendship is still going. They play off each other so well and Ray getting Snart's gun should be fascinating. Nice twist. 

I love that Jax made sure Henry Scott still got the credit. That was a nice way of fixing a change to history. 

[Aeryn13]

Not as good as last week`s but another decent ep.

They managed to handle the racism issue with more finesse than I thought they would. So kudos. I mean of course actual slavery was the darkest of the dark times so Jax saying "it gets better, not perfect but better than this" really resonated. Normally, the "it gets better" approach falls flat because it`s a presumption.

I do hope they won`t go with a Sara and Nate hook-up. He is just too goofy IMO to really compliment her. What I did like was their exchange where he told her about female soldiers in drag, her doing a double-take and him going "how is that not a fun fact for you?" Teehee.

Stein`s zombie-fear  was as adorable as Mick`s ninja-worship. The little subplot with Mick, Stein und Ray was really fun. And I appreciated the gesture of Mick making Ray his new partner by handing him the cold gun but if the entire solution to Ray`s crisis of faith was new tech, why did he never think of building one? We know he could.

Love Captain Lance and I did like Grant giving her a little pep-talk in the end but I still find it weird that they just completely ignore sexism. Last week the samurai easily accepted her as a warrior and this week Grant rather easily accepted her as leader also. Yet in the JLA episode, a team that HAS female heroes on it, the leader was sexist extra-ordinaire. WTF?

[Trini]

On 11/4/2016 at 1:19 PM, BkWurm1 said:

I get your reaction but I think laziness, being oblivious to optics (like these show runners are about EVERYTHING) and pure lack of budget is the likely reason and nothing more. 

It's totally the budget. Armen has to use those old models of Grodd somehow.

[Potanical Pardon]

I wonder if the suit getting destroyed is all part of Ray getting a more comics and lore belt/powers and less Iron-Man one. I hope.

[MarkHB]

8 hours ago, Potanical Pardon said:

I wonder if the suit getting destroyed is all part of Ray getting a more comics and lore belt/powers and less Iron-Man one. I hope.

I would be down with that.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

55 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

9 hours ago, Potanical Pardon said:

I wonder if the suit getting destroyed is all part of Ray getting a more comics and lore belt/powers and less Iron-Man one. I hope.

I would be down with that.

If he really used the classic Atom shrinking powers, he would be near invincible against human opponents.  If you can travel inside your enemies' ear canals/arteries/brains, what chance do they have?  The main impediments are getting close enough, and then having an escape plan.

[squidprincess]

He is capable of doing that, IIRC.  In the third episode last season, he shrunk down to enter Kendra's bloodstream to zap the pieces of the dagger that Savage had left inside when he stabbed her.

But it's probably a bit different when you're going inside an unconscious person, than when you're fighting an active opponent.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

15 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

He is capable of doing that, IIRC.  In the third episode last season, he shrunk down to enter Kendra's bloodstream to zap the pieces of the dagger that Savage had left inside when he stabbed her.

But it's probably a bit different when you're going inside an unconscious person, than when you're fighting an active opponent.

The writers only used the shrinking power when it helped advance the plot.  If Ray could have made it into Savages's brain while Savage was fighting the Hawks, he could have easily caused a stroke and the whole storyline would have been over.

[blackwing]

I thought it was strange that Grant seemed so quick to accept the idea of a female captain.  A female soldier was practically unheard of in Grant's time.  Females on the battlefield were nurses.  There are stories of how some women dressed up as men so they could fight, but it was definitely not common and I'm pretty sure it wasn't generally accepted if they were discovered.  So having a woman who not only fought, but led a company of men, would have been a concept that I don't think Grant would have understood.  I also didn't think they told him they were from the future, right?  He probably could have figured it out but I would have expected more surprise and alarm that men trusted Sara to lead them.

I wasn't too thrilled about the zombie soldiers, I assume that was done for Halloween.  But overall, I am really really enjoying this season.  For me what it comes down to is 1) No Kendra (she sucked bigtime) and 2) No Vandal Savage (ditto).  Last season, because of Kendra, I found watching this show to be a chore at times.  This season, I greatly look forward to it.  I'm also liking that this season, they seem to be going to a much wider variety of time periods.  Last year they went to the Old West once.  This year they have already gone to feudal Japan and the Civil War.  And there was a small scene in the first episode I think where they had gone to medieval France.

Sadly, my chore superhero shows this season are Arrow (hate the new kids) and Gotham.  Legends has been surprising me.  I still don't really care for Ray or Martin Stein, but I can tolerate them.

[kismet]

I liked the episode. I really enjoyed Jax's performance & story, and that is a rarity. I usually find Jax disposable. And it was nice to see Amaya also give a part in the main storyline that was no about Rex.

I absolutely hate Zombie stories, but somehow this worked for me. I also think its was done primarily because it was the Halloween episode.

Stein's fear of Zombies was entertaining and I loved the S/Ray/Mick subplot.

I LOVE that every week they come up with a different combination and chemistry to play off of. I don't mind that Ray got the Cold Gun, but I hope that doesn't negatively impact the show. I was liking how interchangable the players can be. I don't want to see Mick & Ray constantly together now. The mixing of the pairings is the show's strengths. I think it also makes characters that are generally hard to swallow, more palatable.

Lastly, I respect that the show addressed slavery and racism. They did not have to do it. Many a Civil War story has been told without the Slave's perspective. They did not have to attempt it. I think it felt like a good attempt. Could it have been better, absolutely. But it could have been much worse. At least it felt emotional and real. I also think it handled it far better than Timeless. And since Timeless & LoT seem to be in a head to head race. I half think that we should have a thread to compare and contrast them. Seriously, they literally gave the same wording to their characters.

Every week LoT impresses me, because I never thought that I would love this show - but I do. Now that they got rid of some of the plotty baggage with the Hawks the show is so much better. I just hope this Flash subplot will not bring the show down. We have all seen how Barry Allen can ruin a show.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

I just hope this Flash subplot will not bring the show down. We have all seen how Barry Allen can ruin a show.

I'm assuming it's just something to do with the crossover episodes.  

[kismet]

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm assuming it's just something to do with the crossover episodes.  

That's what I thought as well. But why would future Barry be calling... wouldn't it be present day Barry? The voice modulating makes me think the incident takes place in the future, separate from the crossover.

Also, BA & the Flash in general has a way of ruining shows - so I'm just hoping he doesn't mess too much with the vibe of LoT. BA deserves to be taught a lesson from the LoT team after his selfish FP choices. However, I have a feeling that it will be spun around and he will be designated the Hero again. I can barely tolerate BA hero worship on his show. I'm forced to tolerate it on Arrow. I just want LoT to be the one place that see BA for what he is/was, which is a selfish man-child that put his interests above others more than once knowing that there would be consequences.

[Sakura12]

Future Barry probably called to say he messed with the timeline again and hasn't learned a thing in 40 years. With that group of enablers he's got with him, he never will. I think people just do the opposite of what Barry says. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Sakura12

[dmmetler]

Aren't Colonel and Captain equivalent ranks, with Colonel being land forces and Captain sea ones? That kind of took me out of the moment when Grant acknowledged Sara. 

[legaleagle53]

20 hours ago, dmmetler said:

Aren't Colonel and Captain equivalent ranks, with Colonel being land forces and Captain sea ones? That kind of took me out of the moment when Grant acknowledged Sara. 

Then what are Army Captains?

[connieinnc]

6 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Then what are Army Captains?

A Captain in the Army is an O3 (the most junior officer rank is O1), a Captain in the Navy is an O6 (or equivalent to an Army Colonel, which is right below General)

[Sakura12]

I liked this episode. They went as far they were willing for a show on the CW dealing with that time period. I liked that they focused on Jax and Amaya for it instead of having Nate explaining everything as their supposed Historian. I also like that the slave owner didn't have a change of heart and got eaten. 

I'm a sucker for zombies so that's another reason I liked this episode. Stein having an irrational and now rational fear of zombies was funny. As was Mick being a zombie. I awwed when Mick gave haircut Cold's gun even though I know how that turns out. I just like seeing Mick really becoming part of a hero team. He's come so far. He's finally found a home. 

While Grant wasn't very accurate, I loved that he's the first to call Sara, Captain Lance. And give her advice that she uses to this day. Which is why the Legends despite being screw up do act more like a team than the rest of the Arrowverse teams. They may not be well oiled but they have each other's backs when it counts. 

[Starfish35]

I’d forgotten about Martin’s horrible fear of zombies.  And that line “please don’t be dead......on the other hand, if you are dead, please stay dead?” still cracks me up.  😂🤣  And “was I trying to kiss you?” “One can only hope, Mr Rory. One can only hope.”

In retrospect, this isn’t one of their greatest episodes, but it’s a definite step up from Shogun.  Nate is actually useful for once, although he persists in being more fanboy than historian.  And the rapport that Sara develops with General Grant is a nice touch.  “Captain Lance”.  Her bringing back the zombie head as proof was great.  

This is a strong episode for Mick and Ray’s friendship, and I loved Mick giving Ray Snart’s weapon. I was sad when they ended up downplaying their friendship later on to focus more on Ray and Nate. 😢

Edited November 29, 2019 by Starfish35

[Featherhat]

I like this one though I do think it was before they completely found their S2 groove. I like how Jax was sure he could handle the Confederacy because he's been black all his life but realised being considered property and sub human in this era was completely different. 

I enjoyed Martin's reaction to Zombie's. It gave VG a chance to be comedy gold but still in Stein mode.

[Starfish35]

46 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I do think it was before they completely found their S2 groove.

Yeah, while a definite step up from the prior season, I don’t think things totally clicked until after the mid-season break.