S23.E11: Week 8

[Riplet68]

I feel bad that Ryan left tonight-he was so much better!  If this is really the first time Cheryl trained him like that, why did she wait so long?

marilus legs are amazing!  Lauries jive was fantastic. Why couldn't James have Emma?  Jenna is too...fame whorish.

[LizDC]

38 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

Thought Marilu/Derek's dance was just bad.  She looked great in her costume, though.

I thought that dress was horrible on her.  It showed how gangly her legs are. 

[Hiacios]

James did a great dance with his new partner Jenna Johnson. I'm so happy for him to go out there with a new partner and still put on one hell of a dance! 

[Princt1]

Put down the phones, Derek fans, step away from the computer. For his sake. Please. TX.

[ocelot]

1 hour ago, Thalia said:

The show isn't doing her any favors as far as editing.  I can't tell if she and Derek just rub each other the wrong way naturally or maybe he's upset that he didn't get a better partner and they aren't getting along because of that.  

I really get the sense that he's mad he didn't get a better partner, and he isn't treating her very well (and I understand she might be annoying, but I feel bad for her in this situation).

[katha]

I thought that was an enjoyable night of dancing, even with the immunity shenanigans. In a way, having Sharna out injured took care of that as well. I don't know if I agree that James' dance deserved a perfect score, but he certainly had a challenge to dance it with a new partner and did very well, so I think it was all right to give him immunity. Otherwise he'd have also needed to do the dance off with Jenna, and it's not clear how much practice time they had for all that together.

I thought Laurie was lovely and the choreography was beautiful. I'm also super glad that she got Val, since it's only been Derek and Mark with the gymnasts and it's interesting to see a gymnast with a pro who has a different approach. Val's more puristic aesthetic is certainly working for me and I like that he's teaching her to dance and isn't throwing in tricks to cover for weaknesses in technique and performance she might have. It's a great partnership, I think and has really made me appreciate Val in a way I haven't before. (-: I always had great respect for his abilities, but I could seldom really connect to his dances. Now it's kinda clicked for me this season, and I get it.

That said, the storyboarding is hilarious. Laurie can't be perceived to be coasting so they basically cast her as the plucky underdog. So she was "struggling", and now she's making a "comeback". And they're getting away with it, too! I think what they've done is that they've effectively cut down on all the backlash she might have encountered had she been top of the leaderboard all the time. LOL, well done, show!

It was probably time for Ryan, but Marilu and Derek aren't pleasant to watch together. I think sometimes it just doesn't work in a partnership and this seems to be such a case.

[TeeMo]

2 minutes ago, ocelot said:

I really get the sense that he's mad he didn't get a better partner, and he isn't treating her very well (and I understand she might be annoying, but I feel bad for her in this situation).

I'm not sure if it is that he is mad he didn't get a better partner but I do think he bears the brunt of the blame here for their tense relationship. She seems eager to do whatever it is she needs to do to make things work but he just seems frustrated with her no matter what. In the footage they showed tonight from right after the dance last week, she was incredibly apologetic and said something along the lines of "maybe we needed more time to rehearse" and his response was that he rehearsed more with her last week than he had with any other partner he's ever had on the show. Ouch. Last week or the week before we saw similar footage from right after their disappointing performance where he was less than kind or supportive. He'll say something passive aggressive and then say "But it's fine, it's totally fine, don't worry about it," smile and give her a frosty side hug.

I know we don't see everything from rehearsal and she definitely strikes me as high strung, very chatty and very nervous which must be incredibly frustrating to deal with so I do feel for him in that regard. But she reminds me a little bit of Candace Cameron Bure who would often have a good rehearsal and then have it all blow up in her face when she got into the ballroom because of nerves. Mark definitely got frustrated with her and they did have quite a few tense moments but he was much, much better at mitigating her anxiety and they seemed to have a good relationship overall. 

I think @truthaboutluv nailed it by pointing out that most of Derek's past partners have had less jumpy and nervous personalities even when they were not great dancers and he just honestly does not know how to deal with her. There have been plenty of headcases on this show and it is a part of the pro's job to figure out a way to make it work and he is definitely not doing that with Marilu. 

[Callaphera]

The mention of Mark Ballas during the show just confirmed what I thought was wrong with this Hallowe'en episode: no Mark Ballas crazy concepts and costumes. James and Sharna/Jenna's dance came close (hey, Sharna did the choreo, Jenna did the dancing so equal credit is due). But I really miss Mark.

I laughed when Derek got bonked in the head. No hate to the guy, but that's a moment I could watch over and over and not get tired of. Thank God for Youtube.

I was actually a little underwhelmed by the Hallowe'en episode this year. We normally get so much better and creepier (and haven't we already done Sweet Dreams for a past one? Maybe the Marilyn Manson version?) and there was just too much light and frothy. Little Shop of Horrors had barely any real connection or reference to the original. Pure Imagination wasn't Wonka'd out and it wasn't the Gene Wilder version so it automatically gets a vote down from me. Day-O was all right but it honestly looked frantic trying to shoehorn a cha cha into that song. It was just... meh. 

Sorry to see you go, Cheryl. Not only because I like you but because you were my husband's eye candy when I watch the show and now I'm going to have to put up with the grumbles and sighs when it's Dancing With the Stars night.

[RedFiat]

I'm not buying blubbering Val.  He has been criticized for doing terrible choreography so he needed to get his ass in gear and choreograph a proper Viennese Waltz for Laurie.  He did that..  It was pretty.  He looked like a warmed over duck tales, but otherwise if they didn't have the crying Val in the package I doubt it would have had much impact.  I don't ever want to see the prolonged crying from Val again. This from the guy who never gets frightened.  It's a pathetic way to get votes .  Just do better choreography.

[friendperidot]

I wish my legs were as gangly as Marilu's, I'm two years older than her. about 8 inches shorter, and a pound or two heavier, so it's not going to happen. I think she's gorgeous, I loved her on Taxi and Evening Shade, had high hopes for her on this show, but it's not happening. 

I love the song Pure Imagination and thought Laurie and Val were lovely, I think my allergies were acting up because I never cry during anyone's dance. 

James is fine, he dances well, but I am not getting the James love. But it may be that I don't have any interest in racing, NASCAR or Indy. I enjoyed Calvin's dance but I loved Lindsey's costume, the silver skeleton on the black was so cute. I am enjoying Sasha with Terra, he seems so caring and such a gentleman. I am sorry to see Ryan leave. He wasn't great, but he seemed to enjoy himself and I hope this helps a lot of people heal over the mess he made at the Olympics. I never was on the hate Ryan team. 

Editing because I remember Day O as the Banana Boat song by Harry Belafonte long before it was used in Beetlejuice. And it's long been a favorite.

Edited November 1, 2016 by friendperidot

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

I'm not sure if it is that he is mad he didn't get a better partner but I do think he bears the brunt of the blame here for their tense relationship. She seems eager to do whatever it is she needs to do to make things work but he just seems frustrated with her no matter what. In the footage they showed tonight from right after the dance last week, she was incredibly apologetic and said something along the lines of "maybe we needed more time to rehearse" and his response was that he rehearsed more with her last week than he had with any other partner he's ever had on the show. Ouch. Last week or the week before we saw similar footage from right after their disappointing performance where he was less than kind or supportive. He'll say something passive aggressive and then say "But it's fine, it's totally fine, don't worry about it," smile and give her a frosty side hug.

I agree with this. As I've said, I like Derek well enough, but I've always thought he was passive aggressive. He strikes me as someone who doesn't like confrontation so instead of just being frustrated and expressing that and moving on, he'll be standoffish, make a snarky comment but say it's okay. And like I said before, sometimes a person would appreciate the yelling a lot more because the passive aggressive coldness can cut way deeper. I also agree about this not being about him mad that he didn't get a better partner because Derek has often known when he is not going to win with a celebrity. Like he knew fairly early on that he was not going to win with Bethany and they still had a great bond and partnership. He even prepared her for their elimination the night it happened because he saw the writing on the wall, same as he prepared Amy for the fact that they would not win. Like I said,  I think Derek just doesn't know how to deal with Marilu's brand of issues in this competition. Which brings me to this...

Quote

I know we don't see everything from rehearsal and she definitely strikes me as high strung, very chatty and very nervous which must be incredibly frustrating to deal with so I do feel for him in that regard. But she reminds me a little bit of Candace Cameron Bure who would often have a good rehearsal and then have it all blow up in her face when she got into the ballroom because of nerves. Mark definitely got frustrated with her and they did have quite a few tense moments but he was much, much better at mitigating her anxiety and they seemed to have a good relationship overall

Candace is a great comparison and Mark definitely got frustrated at points. I think Marilu may be more frustrating to Derek because I think she might be a better dancer than Candace was or at the least had more potential. I think that really is the heart of Derek's frustration. It's that Marilu is capable but she keeps falling apart on the live show. Like I actually think he might be less frustrated if she just wasn't a good dancer at all because then it is what it is. Like if she was just bad and just couldn't get the steps, what can you really do? But while not the best, I do think she's more than capable because we saw it in her Jive, Foxtrot and VW. But it's like she just falls apart sometimes during the live performances. And that's what's driving him crazy and the more it happens, the more neurotic and emotionally needy she becomes and he doesn't know how to work with that type of celebrity because he's never had to or at least not for a very, very long time. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[katha]

Yeah, I'd agree that it's not maliciousness on Derek's part, but that he doesn't know how to deal with Marilu's issues and his standard fallback in circumstances  like that has always been passive aggressiveness. And since Marilu has constant problems, they as a partnership continue to have problems because he doesn't know how to find a solution for it. Tony or Mark or perhaps Sasha would have been better suited for someone like her, perhaps. And it's not like they both don't try. I think Derek's given her some good choreo, and sometimes she performed well. But something's not working and they don't know how to address it.

[MsJamieDornan]

Quote

I'm not buying blubbering Val.  He has been criticized for doing terrible choreography so he needed to get his ass in gear and choreograph a proper Viennese Waltz for Laurie.  He did that..  It was pretty.  He looked like a warmed over duck tales, but otherwise if they didn't have the crying Val in the package I doubt it would have had much impact.  I don't ever want to see the prolonged crying from Val again. This from the guy who never gets frightened.  It's a pathetic way to get votes .  Just do better choreography.

I agree. I dont believe one bit of his crying. He knows all the tricks and I guess he will use them when he feels its necessary.

How was Sharna able to go up and down all the stairways with a bad knee ?

[galax-arena]

lmao Derek is such a dick.

Bye, Ryan! Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

[thefog]

Derek and Marilu?  She shouldn't have alluded to being pushed as to why she fell.  And he shouldn't have said he has spent more time with her than any of his other partners.

Derek's fans have done him a disservice voting to keep him safe.  It could not be more obvious from tonight he wants out.  Things aren't going to change between him and Marilu.  They have zero chance of making the finals - nor do they deserve to be.

[RedFiat]

Julianne mentioned tonight that when she was a pro on the show she had to go off a  2 weeks due to surgery and she was amazed at just how well James did.  I remember when she had her celebrity pro partner, it was Cody Linley, and he danced with Edyta Swinska.  Well Cody basically lost momentum when he danced with Edyta, it was difficult for him to transition, he tried his best, but when Julianne returned it was too difficult to regain their footing and he was eliminated.  That is why  she commented on that. It is pretty phenomenal  for a non-dancer to partner another pro, have chemistry and get a great score when you are stressed about your original partner.  These celebrities look to the pro for everything,  so it can be very difficult when they can't dance with you on performance night. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by RedFiat

[ElectricCityy]

I think what Julianne meant to say a few weeks ago is that James is the best male performer they've had on the show. He's a decent dancer but it is his acting ability and Sharna's choreo that heightens everything. Also, wasn't feeling him with Jenna in the dance. Without Sharna, something was missing.

I predict a Laurie, Calvin, and James final 3. Hopefully Jana and Tera don't disturb that.

[howmanywords]

2 hours ago, ocelot said:

I really get the sense that he's mad he didn't get a better partner, and he isn't treating her very well (and I understand she might be annoying, but I feel bad for her in this situation).

I always wondered how Derek would handle an older partner who wasn't very good like so many other pros who isn't Golden Boy has had to endure. I guess we know now, eh? And its not pretty. I cringe every time I watch rehearsal footage. I too feel bad for her.

Edited November 1, 2016 by howmanywords

[MsTree]

For everyone (in general) who didn't want to see Marilu on DWTS because it was said that she'd be a "ringer"...I hope you all feel bad now (LOL). It's quite obvious that she's NOT the ringer everyone thought she'd be. And please, let's give her a little slack. She's what? 67 yrs old? She's doing damn well for a broad her age. And even if the "push" was part of the dance, we shouldn't condemn her...because at her age, she could have broken a hip.

[Zoeey]

I will say that, for both Viennese Waltz there was too much out of hold but I've grown up on Strictly where, unless base of an American Smooth, should be pretty much all in hold (too much faffing about as Len would say).

Speaking of Strictly, on Saturday they had a couple do the charleston that happened to be dressed as Joker and Harley.

That Viennese Waltz was done as the Joker and Harley. It's all in the details like James' grip at Jenna's neck so I very much bow to Sharna for her choreography skills. I am, however, rolling my eyes at all the hyperbole regarding his dancing, as good as he is, he isn't a pro, stop trying to hype him as such. He is a million times better than Helio though.

Can I just say that I'm disappointed with the version of Pure Imagination they chose for Laurie and Val? Fiona Apple's version is far more haunting, like a dark reprise.

The moment he wasn't bottom of the leaderboard, I was expecting Ryan to go and sure enough. That Tango was definetly his best dance even if he had gone a bit hunchback.

Marilu should be going next week as she's definetly the weakest now (I'd say Ryan had caught and overtaken her at this point) but that probably depends on two things:

1: Whether or not Terra gets a bottom two bump

2: If Derek's fan base is prepared to 'free' them from this torment.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I am spitting mad at the travesty of Calvin's QS score matching Laurie's all-time VW.  I am a Calvin fan.  I'd love for him to be in the finals.  But, Laurie and Val created a surpassing moment on this show.  In no way did Calvin and Lindsey create anything close to that emotion and beauty.  Even the jidges couldn't summon more than forced enthusiasm for them.  There was a huge energy gap in the criticisms of those two dances.   Lindsey's loose pants did not help matters.  Horrid costume choice for a QS.  Fie on TPTB for taking away some genuine magic with that blatant fixing.  

The "real deal" is so rare in TV.  The cynicism all too prevalent on this show is an unfortunate fact.  This makes Val's core conviction to help Laurie be "Laurie in Full" so striking.  And wonderful.  He and his brother are famous for not allowing their true selves - their good - to be on public display.  He just can't help himself with the phenomenal Laurie.  Those brothers can spot a phony an ocean away.  They also know the real deal when they see it.  

Poor James got the worst song of all time for a VW.  Those lyrics (You don't own me!) are about conflict - perfect for a Paso.   And this in the week he had a brand spanking new partner.  Incredible incongruence, costumes most definitely included, and so unfortunate.   30 was a ridiculous score.   Then again, more than a few folks in social media called them getting immunity due to Sharna's injury.  Uh huh.

I can't believe Val didn't tell Laurie to pick an obviously weak opponent.  Oops.  I mean, wow, did TPTB rig this episode!  Laurie's media training sure kicked in with her non-answer to Erin's question.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Fostersmom]

I feel like the problem with Marilu is she seems to think she's still the pretty young ingenue and not a woman pushing 70. From the first episode of the season she was all about being practically in love with Derek and she's needy as hell. She's a good enough dancer, but a young woman, she's not. The last couple weeks the vast age gap has been obvious with her and Derek and it's showing how exhausting her neediness is getting for him. He's not going to all out be rough on her like others could be to their partner, but at a certain point it's almost a damn Marilu, cut the crap moment. 

[sinycalone]

I would guess the reason two very different songs were selected for the VW is that we would see two very different dances....exactly what happened.  Laurie performed a sweet, light VW - contrasted to James' dark, menacing dance.  Both were very well choreographed and performed.  I preferred  James' but found Laurie's to be lovely. 

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

But, Laurie and Val created a surpassing moment on this show. 

And yet, I can't remember a single thing about it other than apparently Val found his sensitivity chip. 

[gohawks]

Val and Laurie were really lovely. It made me think back to childhood and have some feelings. It did not make me cry, no dance on DWTS has made me cry, but it was a special dance.

If Val was acting, he needs to pursue acting as a career.

Free Marilu! Free Derek! Free the fans! So now we know what happens when Derek is not propped.

James/Sharna/Jenna were awesome. Not a fan of his but that dance was creative and exciting and he danced it well. 

I am a fan of Calvin's and thought he was over scored.

[McManda]

I must be made of stone, because Laurie and Val bored me. I ended up fast forwarding through the end of their dance. (Disclaimer, I fast forwarded through his tears, too.)

I guess she's a good dancer, but I much prefer James and Calvin to her. 

I love the contrast between the Viennese Waltz James did last week with team past and this week as the Joker.

If I look back at this season so far ... I remember far more  of James's dances than anyone else's. Sure, Laurie had a memorable jazz, Calvin's Argentinean Tango was great ... but James, his personality, and his character stick out to me. I'm thoroughly impressed with how he's done all around on this show.

[Good Queen Jane]

Even if she can't dance, will Sharna still do the choreography for James/Jenna? I think Sharna is very good on choreography; Jenna not so much. But ot seems unfair for one star to have two pros working with him (other than Trio Night, if they have one.)

[katha]

5 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Even if she can't dance, will Sharna still do the choreography for James/Jenna? I think Sharna is very good on choreography; Jenna not so much. But ot seems unfair for one star to have two pros working with him (other than Trio Night, if they have one.)

She'll probably be back next week or the week after. You know how they love their melodrama on DWTS. On her social media Sharna sounds pretty confident she'll be dancing soon.

[RedFiat]

There is no way Sharna will give up this opportunity.  I don't think it's melodramatic at all. She did have re-constructive surgery and her doctor does caution to not dance for 3-6 weeks. But these athletes always push the boundries. Her 3 weeks will be compressed into 2 weeks.  I think for the foreseeable future Jenna will be rehearsing with James and she will be back.  And it would be very interesting if other contestants had to switch partners mid stream and worry about them getting well.  Hell, there were people in my beginners ballroom class who wouldn't change partners if their life depended on it.  The dependency on the pro is huge with these celebrities. 

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

If I look back at this season so far ... I remember far more  of James's dances than anyone else's.

This. I haven't been wowed and stunned once by Laurie's dancing this season. Objectively I can tell she's good but I actually don't think her technique has been so absolutely superb. Good and better than many of the other celebrities, sure but amazing, not really. And sorry Val, but when you mentioned about your choreography maybe being the issue in the package, I agreed. I just don't feel like he's delivered anything that's gotten me excited. 

The VW was good but was it memorable for me, no. And I'm not so easy that James' was simply because it was over the top sexy. James' VW was memorable because it managed to take a dance that traditionally is soft and beautiful and fuse it with a story that was dark and twisted and a little disturbing. So there were moments of tenderness and the fluidity mixed with this dark and disturbing love affair that was Joker and Harley. 

eta: I do think Calvin was overscored, much as I enjoy him. His frame was doing something wonky throughout the dance. I was surprised by the perfect score because I would have given it all 9's.

Edited November 1, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[RedFiat]

24 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

Quote

If I look back at this season so far ... I remember far more  of James's dances than anyone else's.

This. I haven't been wowed and stunned once by Laurie's dancing this season. Objectively I can tell she's good but I actually don't think her technique has been so absolutely superb. Good and better than many of the other celebrities, sure but amazing, not really. And sorry Val, but when you mentioned about your choreography maybe being the issue in the package, I agreed. I just don't feel like he's delivered anything that's gotten me excited. 

 

I have to co-sign to all of this.  Val was my favorite pro because for a time I felt his grounding in technique didn't stunt his creativity  and  I thought he did wonderfully well to showcase Kelly Monaco,  Zendaya, Rumer Willis,  for me I thought here's a guy who is actually starting to give Derek a run on the choreography, if you look back on what he did in seasons 15, 16 and 20  I was really impressed with him. So it pains me to say this but the creativity well must have dried up. He's just not a giver in that sense.  Even Derek and his mismatch with Marilu, you see he's trying to give us something new something interesting with the Spider Woman choreography.  No it didn't resonate because it wasn't well performed, but at least he is trying.  Even Cheryl had more interesting choreography last evening for Ryan.  These two were unfortunately the clunkers of the competition and yet you find yourself remembering the choreography.  Imagine if the frontrunners performed that choreography. It would be visually stunning.  Val has a little dynamo this season and he's lost as a choreographer.  I don't get it.  He needs to get out of the Mandy Moore world of strip tease and find a balance between the extremes of sex and innocence.   As far as beautiful Viennese Waltz this season that title goes to Marliu.  Laurie just didn't have the extension, some of the movement was a bit clipped for my taste. Was it sentimental? Absolutely. Would it have made any impact on me without Val's crying episode?  Not in the least.   

Edited November 1, 2016 by RedFiat

[katha]

See, I totally disagree on Val. (-; I think at this point it just comes down to different taste? IMO Val's been delivering all season and all the dances have been memorable for me (minus paso). That said, the different approaches the pros have are fascinating to watch and what Val does looks dramatically different from all the others now IMO. I wonder if Val feels "old school" now, because he kind of is. DWTS is drifting further and further into big staging and theatricality, and that's never been his main focus. He can adapt quite well and use fusion, theatrical elements, props, troupe, etc. (in a way that other pros like Tony, Maks, Karina (?)  perhaps can't anymore?), but I don't think it's at the core of his work as a teacher and choreographer and dancer. For him at the end of the day it always comes back to pure dance. So Laurie, for example, was always going to look exposed to some degree with him. Because for all her talents and abilities, she also has the usual limitations gymnasts bring to the table. And with Val there just wasn't going to be cover up and using tricks and making things spectacular. She has technique issues? She works through her technique issues until she improves. She performs too one-note? She's going to get more nuanced programs and work through her insecurities until it gets better. They need more dance chemistry? He's gonna choreograph dances that force her to interact with him until it works. And so she's improving and stretching as a dancer, but that also includes giving her challenging stuff that she isn't getting perfectly right at first. I'm really surprised how disciplined about it he's been as well, he doesn't seem tempted by her gymnastics background at all.

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but I think it is a big misconception that when some viewers comment negatively on a Pro's choreography, that is tied to wanting the props or troupe and theatrical elements. Sure sometimes that works for what the dance is, like James' VW last night because of the choreography. However, I can only speak for myself and say that there have been many dances I loved and were memorable to me that had no troupe members or crazy props or any of that stuff.

Like for all the crap Derek has gotten for years about his so called overuse of props, I think Derek has been one of the Pros who uses the troupe the least. And a perfect example of a dance that had no props or troupe that I loved and was memorable to me was his and Marilu's VW. That dance was just stunning on its own with just the two of them. And speaking of Val, his and Zendaya's Jive that was just them and her amazing dancing, still ranks as one of my all time favorite Jives on this show. 

At the end of the day it's really just all subjective, which is a big reason I've never gotten up in arms about this show and am baffled when people do. Some celebrities and dances connect with some viewers and doesn't for others. I just know that personally for me, I cannot say that Laurie has done anything this season that has truly stunned and wowed me. Part of that is not being in love with her dancing and part of it is yes, Val's choreography.

All I know is I watch all their dances thinking, "well it wasn't bad" but that's about all I can say about it. She seems sweet, Val seems to adore her and that's all great but while there are many couples and dances I can remember throughout this show's LONG history, I feel fairly confident in saying that so far, there is not performance from Val and Laurie I will remember seasons and years from now. 

[tessaforever]

12 hours ago, mtlchick said:

At least Marilu LOOKED great, but the dance was a big mess.  

12 hours ago, Thalia said:

The show isn't doing her any favors as far as editing.  I can't tell if she and Derek just rub each other the wrong way naturally or maybe he's upset that he didn't get a better partner and they aren't getting along because of that.  

11 hours ago, SophiaPehawkins said:

And yeah, the tension between Derek and Marilu is mad uncomfortable. Usually, Derek's pretty good at faking it, but this a clumsy pairing.

So much WORD to all of this. I feel like Derek realized awhile ago that he couldn't have a good partnership with Marilu - her insecurities and intelligence are a bad combination for this show. He put her "in charge" and gave her just enough rope to hang herself with by showing that her dancing has gotten worse the more say she's had in the choreography, etc. 

Last night's package and dance were a perfect example. She second-guessed herself constantly and it showed. It's clear they don't trust each other. When Derek, the ultimate perfectionist, says in rehearsal "Oh, it doesn't matter if you do it that way or not" he's given up trying to get a good performance out of his celeb. The look on his face throughout the evening - and Marilu's nervousness - spoke volumes. 

The ironic thing about last week's fall is that if she hadn't started blathering about it the second the dance ended, I would have thought it was meant to happen. It fit the angsty theme of the dance. 

[RedFiat]

What upsets me about a team that I wanted to root for Laurie and Val is the Paso and Salsa were terrible and should have been great. There was no reason for Val to do some sort of strange Paso that really wasn't appropriate for Laurie. Her technique was off because he threw far too many turns for her to keep her balance.  He over produced that piece and he knew it.  The box part was ridiculous tack on and had nothing to do with Paso Doble.  All it did was put Laurie in a body suit where she should have been in a better Paso costume.  The skirt as cape is usually more of a sexual prop, this was ineffective and heavy.  

The Salsa was a hot mess.  The neon laser beams have got to go.  Why the hell didn't Val try to celebrate Laurie's heritage with a full on cheeky Salsa?  She should of nailed it.  And yet it looked like a couple of dear in the laser beam headlights with a couple of gymnast lifts that had nothing to do with Salsa.  They never looked so disconnected as a team. I was utterly shocked. The Salsa was a guaranteed perfect score with the right choreography. 

Now the VWaltz is meh,  I'm not wowed by it because there is nothing in that dance that was memorable. Regardless if there's props or not, there has to be something within the piece that makes you remember it. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by RedFiat

[katha]

That salsa was wonderful. It was low-key my fave dance of the season so far. Laurie couldn't quite execute it yet, but IMO she desperately needed to get away from doing a FOURTH cutesy light and fast dance. They also got assigned an EDM song, they needed to actually respond to the music they were dancing to. I've also never seen a salsa on this show quite like that yet, it all usually goes into the "Whee! Party! Look at us forcing ourselves to act like we're having the best time!"

[RedFiat]

They needed to do a great traditional Salsa because they messed up the Paso so bad.  They didn't and they found themselves out of favour.   And that's on the guy who drilled technique so much he forgot how to choreograph.

Edited November 1, 2016 by RedFiat

[vavera4ka]

6 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

He and his brother are famous for not allowing their true selves - their good - to be on public display.  He just can't help himself with the phenomenal Laurie.  Those brothers can spot a phony an ocean away.  They also know the real deal when they see it.  

Maks - yes, but I never got the "real" bad boy vibe from Val. He truly looks like a big softy trying to puff up next to his big bro, mimicking him, but failing to come even close in matching him in that regard. I'm not surprised at how he is treating Laurie: like a beloved kid sister. That kind of relationship and chemistry is super refreshing. Not every woman wants to date, say, "Maks", but EVERY girl wants a "Val" for big brother. I was surprised thought at how deeply he feels that responsibility and how overwhelmed he is by her talent, personality and wanting to do right by her.

As for James' VW I was torn the whole dance. I LOVE the song, but I hated the version with a passion of 1000 suns. And to me it was a bit too hectic and too sharp for VW. My VW is a fairy tale, like team Past last week, like Laurie and Val this week... not like Jana and Gleb in week 1 or James and Jenna right now. Fairy tales can be creepy and weird (think Neil Gaiman), so I didn't mind that aspect, but staccato moves and (maybe driven by character) hunching posture killed it for me...

[McManda]

13 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

MMV but I think it is a big misconception that when some viewers comment negatively on a Pro's choreography, that is tied to wanting the props or troupe and theatrical elements. Sure sometimes that works for what the dance is, like James' VW last night because of the choreography

I don't think James had any more props or  troupe involvement than Laurie last night. He was fine with the troupe and the jail cell just as quickly as Laurie was done with the gate and ... was it Alan? 

Theatricality, sure. I find James more nuanced and expressive than human emoji, can't stop giggling Laurie. Costumes, definitely. I thought Laurie's dress was pretty bad (and not in the intended innocent little girl way) and James definitely embodies the look of a Jared Leto inspired Joker. 

I don't need costumes or the troupe. But if you're going to use them, use them well. I think Sharna envisioned a good routine whereas Val seemed to sit down and say  ... well, Alan is available and they say w have to use him ... and there are some left over candy pop  flowers from one if Mark's routine.

Plus it's Halloween, so I'm willing to give the crazy costumes and the theatrics a pass for this week. 

But one of my favorite Halloween dances takes it way back - Mario Lopez's waltz in season three. It was creepy and sad and completely devoid of theatricality, props (save a rose), or extra dancers. 

[thefog]

22 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

Gonna just say neither James or Calvin deserved their perfect scores tonight. Laurie had the only dance that wowed me in execution, emotional connection, and content wrapped together.

For all we know Laurie is killing the votes and the constant, over the top (mostly undeserved) praise that Calvin and James get is to make the season seem like a competition?

Totally disagree.  It's one thing to have technical ability (of course, her gymnast training gives her an advantage).  But James and Calvin are more fun and entertaining to watch.

Edited November 2, 2016 by escape

[Primetimer]

Halloween brings out the best in some couples, even if that may not be enough to keep them around for another week.

View the full article

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

 

I don't think James had any more props or  troupe involvement than Laurie last night. He was fine with the troupe and the jail cell just as quickly as Laurie was done with the gate and ... was it Alan? 

Theatricality, sure. I find James more nuanced and expressive than human emoji, can't stop giggling Laurie. Costumes, definitely. I thought Laurie's dress was pretty bad (and not in the intended innocent little girl way) and James definitely embodies the look of a Jared Leto inspired Joker. 

 

You're right. I phrased that badly. I was referring to the theatricality of the performance as opposed to props and troupe. 

[judemorrigan]

9 hours ago, Zoeey said:

I will say that, for both Viennese Waltz there was too much out of hold but I've grown up on Strictly where, unless base of an American Smooth, should be pretty much all in hold (too much faffing about as Len would say).

That, of course, is the difference.  Despite the way Len would grouse, they do smooth Viennese on this show.  If you watch what is being danced competitively these days, smooth couples tend to not spend all that much time in closed hold.  My own open Viennese has lots of shadow and alternative hold, but literally no closed hold at all.  (My other three dances have a fair bit of it though, for the record.)

Val's vwaltz choreography always seems very silver-ish to me.  Which I consider a compliment.

[iMonrey]

It seems like the judges are starting to find ways to tell Terra "this is why you won't be in the finals." There was nothing technically wrong with her dance that should have gotten her lower scores than other dances she's done, but at this point it's time for the judges to start signaling she's an also-ran.

Quote

That said, the storyboarding is hilarious. Laurie can't be perceived to be coasting so they basically cast her as the plucky underdog. So she was "struggling", and now she's making a "comeback". And they're getting away with it, too! I think what they've done is that they've effectively cut down on all the backlash she might have encountered had she been top of the leaderboard all the time. LOL, well done, show!

Yes. I thought the crying jag was a bit much. From Week 1 it's like we've just been pretending somebody other than Laurie had a chance to win this season, and the show has been bending over backwards to make it seem like she wasn't a shoe-in by underscoring her every week. And, on another note, Julianne basically admitted they're scoring her on a different scale than everyone else because she's better than everyone else. The roll-in package was ridiculously manipulative.

Quote

I laughed when Derek got bonked in the head.

When did he get bonked on the head? Gif please!

Quote

 In no way did Calvin and Lindsey create anything close to that emotion and beauty. 

I have to agree - I was surprised at the 10s for Calvin and Lindsay. It was nice but there was something a little off about the whole thing, like it was a little too slow for a Quick Step. I think mainly because he's so huge, and the bigger you are the slower it seems. I was kind of expecting to see 8s for that.

Go home, Marilu! Derek is so over you.

ETA - I really hate the dance-off concept. It's impossible to watch both couples at the same time. Granted - the show did make an effort to "fix" that problem, a bit, by having one couple stand in the background while the other danced in the spotlight, but then I just got distracted by the couple standing there in the background. Also, it must be awful when you get a glimpse of the big voting board behind you and realize you're behind. Talk about distracting.

Edited November 1, 2016 by iMonrey

[RedFiat]

Weirdly I keep humming  "You Don't Own Me"  and "In the Mood"   

[sparrowtime]

To me this immunity and dance-offs show was simply a seeding round to set the stage for the finishing order. Which is quite plain now, James, Laurie, Calvin, Jana. I think Terra and Marilu don't factor in because they are the next two gone. 

 

I think James will take the MB mainly because he is so much more interesting than Laurie and a much better dancer than Calvin. 

[Shades of Red]

I really enjoyed Val and Laurie's dance.  He may come across as "old school" but maybe that's due to Laurie's age and that helps make some of these dances age appropriate vs creepy older guy with a young underage girl?  We know in ballroom that kids of all ages dance all the dances so it's not a case of someone younger never dancing a particular dance.    I personally like more traditional.  The waltz wasn't full traditional, but it had the feel of more traditional vs all the mucking about and weird steps some of the dances have.  YMMV.

Poor Marilu.  I feel terrible for her.  The dance was well choreographed but she seemed so stiff and nervous that it made watching it very uncomfortable.   At times Derek seemed to be putting her into the position/place he needed her to be instead of her participating in the dance.  Almost as if she was a mannequin.  Derek really does have that passive/aggressive thing down, and it's not pleasant for anyone to deal with someone like that, let alone having to deal with it on national television.

[Vinyasa]

Terra annoys me to no end.

I know the pros always do most of the dancing, but Sasha is just moving her around. I would have like Ryan to stay longer than her.

Hopefully, she goes next week.

[Zuleikha]

James' VW was memorable because it managed to take a dance that traditionally is soft and beautiful and fuse it with a story that was dark and twisted and a little disturbing. So there were moments of tenderness and the fluidity mixed with this dark and disturbing love affair that was Joker and Harley.

Yes! I was really impressed by Sharna's choreography and Jenna/James's dancing and acting. All three had to walk a fine line between keeping it entertaining without sugarcoating the abusive aspects or turning it into a depressing PSA. And they had to do it with a dance style that doesn't lend itself naturally to that (except for the neck strangling move... I always hate that freaking move in traditional VWs, but here it finally worked). James/Jenna's chemistry was intense, too! If I didn't know who James was, I would have assumed he was one of the actors.

 I thought Laurie's dress was pretty bad (and not in the intended innocent little girl way)

Yeah, I thought her dress was a huge miss. It actually pulled me out of the dance. It didn't read little girlish to me and the bodice seemed weirdly boxy.

[Maria Von Trapp]

I hate the way they run the elimination the same night as the competition .Ryan wins the dance off but gets eliminated ?? The eliminated dancer gets no chance to bask in their success . They  put  all the work into a competition dance ,which for everyone else will be used to determine next week's elimination , but it's wasted effort because they are already off the show. You could have a dancer who redeems themselves with great scores , but it doesn't matter because they are kicked off based on the previous week . As one of the pros said last week, it's not a competition at all, it's just "entertainment" . It's a total joke to watch them when they could already be off the show. On another note , Terra is  a great dancer, but why couldn't they have hired a professional partner for her who is also a little person ? It's just not appealing to see Sasha bending over her for the dances , and repeatedly swinging her around because he can't come up with much more to do with her. It seems they don't want to single her out because of her size , but it's more discriminatory to insinuate that the only professional dancers worth appearing on the show are average sized people.