S33.E06: The Truth Works Well

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

 I see a lot of people excusing it on these grounds: "Hannah was okay with it."  Hannah is a meek person, and this is exactly how bullying is constantly rationalized.  And I don't understand how anyone who watched closely could not see that the bullying attitude was causing Hannah (who already struggles with anxiety) great distress.  She even said something in response to an insult from Michaela, like "I'm just feeling very yelled at".  Afterward?

As Cher said in "Moonstruck" ... "Snap out of it!"  

Maybe she isn't meek, she's just a pampered little Millennial princess.  As a radio therapist once said, "Most people who claim they are sensitive people are usually sensitive about their own feelings and nobody else's." 

I accept that panic attacks are real, but seriously, if a young handsome doctor paying attention to her caused her to get over it so quickly ... her attacks might be self-generated for attention.  Just sayin' ... 

[rozen]

Total Michaela fangirl right now. She did what needed doing for about five minutes, then gave Hannah a hug and a good job once it was over. Hannah was over-compensating on the table puzzle, and didn't respond to Michaela's initial, softer, instructions not to "move so big." She had no business being on the puzzle in the first place, but I guess she had to be rotated in this challenge due to the rules. If someone has a better vision of the puzzle than their teammate, the teammate should take the backseat to make sure they finish as quickly as possible. Also, if someone had had  a panic attack from literally sitting down, I, too, would be inclined to tell them to just stand there and let me handle it. 

Michaela saying she wanted to protect the millennials was a pretty good answer, imo. She clearly didn't give two shits for FigTayls, and probably own't shed a single tear when she sees that Figgy is gone. But she didn't say she wanted the power couple broken up, but put it all in context of the team. And it catalyzed the desired result for Gen-X AND the millennials and everyone is probably going to quietly thank her for it.

Her creeping up to find that idol party was hysterical. She knew something was up. That's another thing I like about her, she's always playing the game. "Go look for dead coconuts?" Boy bye, everyone should have tailing those guys, Wu style, for information. But instead they were laying up at camp, complaining that they're hungry. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by rozen

[simplyme]

18 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I accept that panic attacks are real, but seriously, if a young handsome doctor paying attention to her caused her to get over it so quickly ... her attacks might be self-generated for attention.  Just sayin' ... 

There probably are some people that fake panic attacks for attention. (I worked with the public for years. I now have low expectations of humanity.) That said, in this case Hannah's attack put her in a worse position in the game. I don't think it was intentional.  I think it was pretty much as explained. She got excited as a spectator, her breathing got too shallow and fast, and that triggered a physical reaction of faintness and hand cramps. Then she started to panic because she wasn't sure if it was anxiety or if it was heat stroke or what. Having a medical professional help get her breathing back to normal and tell her it was anxiety enabled her to then mentally take back control and finish the process of calming down.

[SlackerInc]

11 hours ago, Archery said:

While there is certainly a successful archetype of the player with a good "social game" (whatever that is) on Survivor, that is not to say that it is the only winning approach. Perhaps this group of people might look at Michaela and see someone who is strong, physical, patient, committed, hard-working, and no-BS -- a what you see is what you get straight-shooter who isn't going to lie to their faces and back stab them.  Perhaps there is value in that, and they'll respect it, especially when she's right (re: the 3 Millennials v the 2 GenXers).  Personally, I have no problem with her "barking" at Hannah; they could not both be controlling the table, and Hannah was breaking Michaela's concentration.  I also don't think it would be such an issue if it were two men trying to get through that part of the challenge. 

I think it would be more of an issue.  I can see only two ways it would play out, if it had been two men.  Okay, come to think of it, three (and I'm sure there are some less likely variations I'm not thinking of off the top of my head).

(1) The man in Hannah's position is also a strong personality, and does not stand for it whatsoever, right in the moment.  In response to "Shut up", he fires back with "how about YOU shut the fuck up!"  Some of the more hotheaded men we've seen on Survivor might have even come close to engaging in physical violence.

(2) The man in Hannah's position does not say anything (either for strategic reasons, or because he kind of freezes up at the moment) but is very conscious of having been disrespected in front of everyone (including millions of viewers) and inwardly seethes with anger, burning with the desire for revenge even if he puts on a nonchalant exterior.

(3) The man in Hannah's position is actually a milquetoast, a pushover.  He doesn't fight back, doesn't complain, doesn't even seethe with a thirst for revenge.  In which case the man in Michaela's position would find him utterly contemptible, as would (most likely) everyone else, including the vast majority of the TV audience.

8 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

Michaela is blunt as hell but I don't get any meanness or malice from it...

Huh.  I've seen a lot of this in this thread and elsewhere.  "She's just blunt."  In my world, the following always qualifies as "meanness", not just "bluntness":

Quote

"Just let me know if you need me to--"
"SHUT.  Up."

I have a friend who is very blunt.  (I suspect he may in fact be an undiagnosed Aspie.)  He has never been passive-aggressive in his life, and often doesn't bother with niceties.  But I have also never seen him tell someone to "shut up", or even raise his voice in anger.  That's an extreme case, of course--I've not known anyone else for so many years without seeing them get angry--but the point is that I just don't think "bluntness" is all we're seeing here.  It's part of it, but there's an edge to it as well--and when you think about it, having an edge is fundamentally contradictory to the very notion of "blunt".

On Hannah's panic attacks and the exhortations to "snap out of it": my father suffered from panic attacks (although I didn't know about it until after he was dead, because he hid them) and ultimately took his own life.  I get pretty angry when I see people seem to literally advocate the Bob Newhart "Just stop it" school of psychiatry.  I get it: you don't experience these things, and can't relate with them.  Same here.  But I also can't relate with being stuck in a wheelchair 24/7, yet I don't roll my eyes at the wheelchair-bound and snark that they should just "snap out of it and stand up and walk like the rest of us".  The discriminatory attitude that still exists toward mental health in 2016 is appalling.  Hopefully, in a few decades people will look back at these kinds of comments with amazement and horror the way we look back at the "Mad Men" era attitude toward equal rights for women, gays, and minorities.

[AZChristian]

I am prone to anxiety attacks, in spite of the fact that I'm at the best time of my life - retired, no work pressures, happily married, not broke.  In spite of all that, there are certain things that will trigger an attack - a smell, a sense of claustrophobia in a store, getting overheated.  If it were possible for me to snap out of it, I'd love to do that.  I mostly feel guilty, because I have no reason to be anxious . . . but I am.

I felt badly for Hannah.  If she was already stressed, getting overheated with no air movement could have thrown her over the edge.  And the best thing is to have a professional do what the doctor did.  Get her to focus on one productive thing:  "Breathe with me."  It's amazing how quickly a panic attack can end with the right help and advice.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

Sure, there's a difference between bluntness and meanness.  If someone said they didn't like when Michaela is mean then sure I guess I could understand.  But instead, there are so many posts that say "She's too BLUNT for this game!  She's going to lose this game with all that bluntness!"  That's what I'm really interested to see.  This is not a character issue we see all the time on this show.  This is novel and interesting.  Being blunt or direct or even assertive is one thing, something I even appreciate.  But meanness (to me) is something different.  I don't like meanness.  But I'm not seeing it in Michaela yet.  I don't like being told to shut up, but being in a challenge on Survivor is something that a very, very, very unique subset of the population experience.  We don't know how it is.  There's a context there.  I'm far from being turned off from her yet and I really enjoy her so far.

We're all different and we all value different things in people.  Some people were turned off by Figgy's smugness and others are turned off by Michaela's bluntness and this is one of the many interesting things about the show.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Guest]

It seems like "blunt" is the adjective chosen by those who like her.  Those of us who don't aren't really seeing it as bluntness so much as "no social game", which I think is why you don't see it much in Survivor.  It's suicide.  

But I haven't seen the extra scenes where her tribemates profess their love, and I (honestly) did miss the scenes in the show where they did.

[KimberStormer]

I forgot to say that I did like to finally see that Ken does indeed have a sense of humor and it's very dry.  I thought his thing about "What Figgy wants to hear" to be kind of creepy and offputting, tbh, but by the time he got to the end of it ("their deep true love of two weeks") I saw it was a joke, just like his deadpan response to the Figtayls Revelation.  I too thought, because of the order they were read in, that Adam wrote the "Figaroo", which really threw me for a loop because why salt the wound that way, but when I saw it was actually Ken, it made perfect sense.  I think the season theme is working its subtle work on our Ken, and he is thinking of these millenials as if he were their grandpa, which is kind of silly since he's what, like 10 years older than Figgy?

13 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

From that Figgy interview.  That's just painful.  She wanted him to dive on his sword for her?  

Well, she's just calling out his bullshit on saying "I don't even care about the money," etc.  If he meant it, he's a moron and yes, I agree with her, fall on your sword for someone who actually cares, please.  If he didn't mean it then why is he saying something so ridiculous?

10 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

My eyes must have been playing tricks on me, I totally thought it was Hannah.  Thanks for the correction!

It was a totally Hannah thing to do!  I'm not surprised people saw it that way.  Michelle is an odd duck in challenges, I never know what to expect from her during them, except killing the puzzles.

9 hours ago, DEL901 said:

And note to Figgy, no one voted you out because you were such a threat to win.  It was to break up a power couple. 

Isn't that....the same thing??

5 hours ago, Tasya said:

I much prefer the Michaela's to the Figgy's. Give me the person that's upfront about who they are over the person that smiles in your face while secretly talking trash about you at every opportunity.

When did Figgy ever do this?

@SlackerInc, just wanted to say thanks for that post, the analysis of what if it were two men was plausible and interesting, and the defense of Hannah's panic attack, IMO, important.  One Like is not enough.

Edited October 28, 2016 by KimberStormer

[SlackerInc]

16 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

 

@SlackerInc, just wanted to say thanks for that post, the analysis of what if it were two men was plausible and interesting, and the defense of Hannah's panic attack, IMO, important.  One Like is not enough.

Aw, thanks!  I appreciate that.  Bonus: I learned that you can "at" someone here, just like on Twitter.  Cool.  :)

[NutMeg]

I really like this season so far. I don't dislike anyone, and there are many interesting players, willing to take short term risks to secure long term gains. Actually, there are (or seem to be) many more players who are actively playing, with a range of approaches, or maybe it's just that the editing has decided to show us how almost everyone is playing. I love it.

Now for random comments, and trying not to repeat what's been said much better before (and NB: I would have liked to "plus" much more posts, but randomly got a message that I was not allowed to):

The juxtaposition of Chris and David in challenges will never get old. It took me a while to realize David was such a giant, and this episode I was struck by how much David looks like a stick figure. That being said, I like David a lot, and he's not the type of players I thought interesting in the past (Cochran 1.0 etc. left me freezing cold), so I guess there's just something in him, his approach, his talking heads, that makes me hope he goes far. Oh, and with all the snark about his challenge prowess or rather lack thereof, has no one noticed he was quicker than Ken on the beam/climb the mat!? Yes, hell did freeze over for a minute there.

Now Ken... Once in a while, and it's so rare I can only think of one other time, there is a contestant on Survivor that intrigues me, not as a contestant, but as a person. Ken is that for me this season. It's not (just) his look but something about his dry sense of humour, his calmness as finding himself a target of the vote, his whole demeanour that suggests a rich life outside the game. I'm not even sure what it is, but I feel like he had a depth of life experiences and is able to take it all in stride, and I find this, and thus him, fascinating. For the record, the last (only?) Survivor contestant that I found as interesting was Matt (Amazon, watched it a year or two ago, not when it aired).

Now back to the episode Michelle is playing with fire but so far escapes any burn, good girl; Michaela is golden now but also putting a huge target on her back for the next phase of the game, post merge; Jay's I'm gonna win this game: winner edit or foreshadowing of things that will not be?

Silly me: when I quickly read posts, I get Michelle and Michaela confused, because my eyes seem to scan the page and see what they want to see. Must learn to slow read.     

[Cynna]

On 2016-10-26 at 6:04 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Ssooooooooo.  Apparently I'm psycho in love with Ken?  Out of nowhere?  Because my reaction when he was on the chopping block tonight was EXTREMELY embarrassing.  All these women cut from the show.  Oh dear.  I was cheering for Ken's LIFE tonight - usually I want the woman saved but not today ladies, I really apologize.  I think I'm in love.  I'm such a weirdo.

 

OMG, this. I feel like a 15 year old. It's not about his looks first, it's his demeanour, voice, humour. His eyes when he explained to Jessica to trust him - that got me. Bad.  :sigh:

On 2016-10-26 at 8:34 PM, pamplemousse said:

And I think it speaks well of Michaela that the first thing she did after they won was to grab Hannah in a hug and apologize. I think Michaela is awesome, like Bret said, there's nothing she can't do, and she can say sorry too.

Yup, it wasn't personal. Seriously - if Michaela was a Michael none of this would be discussed. She's an excellent player and communicated clearly to Hannah, who was being a misfit and messing up. Michaela got the job done, then made sure Hannah knew it wasn't personal.

On 2016-10-26 at 9:55 PM, Wandering Snark said:

... Jessica when you can see her back shows she has some really bad coverage of huge tattoos that have been hiding most of the season.

Today it was easier to see them and it looks like she has some kind of a really kindergarten looking panda scene tattoo on her lower back and then a rather large cherry blossom branch(?) on her upper right of her back. They in no way 'work' together either. It just looks a mess.

I was shocked when I saw her tats, she doesn't seem the type. Does anyone have a s/s of those messy pandas?

 

14 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

And still he took a pole to the crotch twice, once bad enough to send him toppling over.  

Figaroo encouraged him to run into a pole with a, "run Ken, run" at one point.

2 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Now Ken... Once in a while, and it's so rare I can only think of one other time, there is a contestant on Survivor that intrigues me, not as a contestant, but as a person. Ken is that for me this season. It's not (just) his look but something about his dry sense of humour, his calmness as finding himself a target of the vote, his whole demeanour that suggests a rich life outside the game. I'm not even sure what it is, but I feel like he had a depth of life experiences and is able to take it all in stride, and I find this, and thus him, fascinating.

This.This.This.This.This.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Cynna

[Lamb18]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 1:12 AM, KimberStormer said:

Neither, I think; this was the Drew Christy Memorial Loser Edit, more commonly seen on Project Runway, where they absolutely hammer the poor sucker going home with LOOK AT THIS LOSER HAHAHA stuff.  She lost them the challenges!  She cried (the Survivor fandom's most loathed sin!)  She looked like a fool telling Jessica and Ken about her and Taylor!  She looks scared at tribal!  (Exactly as @azshadowwalker I think said, she was hateful for not being concerned when her name came up in the second episode, and now she's hateful for being concerned about it.)  They pulled out ever trick in their editor bag on her this episode.  Other than Drew, I don't remember another example on Survivor, but it's a way to change it up.  Replace the suspense with audience satisfaction.  Poor Figgy. 

I still like her alot, especially (but not only) as a Survivor character.  They were clearly casting for a certain energy of youth, and other than Jay, I think she brought the most of it; I like to see it, a kind of delight in being alive, that she probably wasn't even aware of?  But I (clearly alone among all Survivor fans in the entire world) enjoyed watching it, such a breath of fresh air for me, when Survivor is usually so dour and all about misery.  Even people I think of as a bright light, like Courtney or Cirie, spend a lot of time complaining.  I like seeing her so 元気 and expressively open about her feelings (Michaela of course is the same, but people love Michaela for it, hate Figgy for it.)  I'm not super devastated to see her go; she was no strategist, and her going home is probably good for Michelle, so that's a consolation.  But I did like her.

I thiiiiink I would have gone the same way Adam did.  One thing to worry about is that it will be extremely clear to all other Millenials what happened.  No way he can possibly not take the heat for that: obviously it wasn't Taylor who flipped on Figgy.  And, with Michaela brazenly helping the orange tribe at the challenge it seems there is some open agreement that the Millenials want to keep their Millenial numbers above all else.  (Exactly as Taylor and Figgy made this assumption, Michaela made it too, openly in front of her own current tribemates from Gen X, which seems very very risky to me.)  So that's a big risk!  BUT I think, for Adam, it was probably the right move.  Getting to the merge with the numbers means nothing if you can't win from that position.  Taking the short-term dangerous move to help the long game is always what I like to see.  Too many moving parts to see where he goes from here, but teaming up with the Ken/Jessica/Dave team, perhaps with Zeke and Chris, could really work for him.

I love Jay so I'm glad he found the idol.  Too bad it was in a crowd, but what can you do.  I like how Michaela is super expressive and blunt, but can keep things to herself till needed.  A lot of people would blow up that idol immediately.  Will is not doing anything wrong but he is starting to seem like he's just along for the ride.  He was wearing some kind of invisibility cloak in that scene!  Isn't having panic attacks the kind of thing that people were worried that the "Cool Kids" would bully Hannah for?  Why then are we attacking her for it?  It's a real thing and quite scary.  It's only happened to me once but I would have thought I was getting heat stroke or something too.  Glad they got Dr. Joe out there, instead of allowing another Caleb situation to possibly develop.  Fascinating edit for Hannah, I will be really interested to see where she goes.  I still love you Hannah!

Honestly tho Jeff was super obnoxious tonight.  I never say this, but I really felt he was interfering too much in things today.  Maybe he always pulls shit like this wedding nonsense and it's usually cut, but I was really surprised by it.  I felt like he really had it in for Figgy all episode; perhaps he feels the way y'all do, and wanted to get rid of her.  I don't mind the calling out of the reaction face that much -- should be easy enough to sidestep, which Figgy completely failed to do -- but that tribal bit was crazy town.  Shut up Probst! 

Finally, I texted my sister this morning, "Michelle's only chance is if there's a puzzle challenge today, she seems to be amazing at them" and it didn't quite work that way but still, a great episode for her.  She played really well, I think, all through.

Responding to the bolded paragraphs:

I like that kind of Survivor (and Big Brother) player, too, there was someone like that last season but I can't remember who it was. I think Kelley Wentworth was like that her second season. What bugged me about Figgy was that she seemed to think she was adorable and that her "romance" was adorable and that everyone found them adorable. 

I've begun to think that Jeff is telegraphing who he wants voted out by the questions and comments he makes at tribal council. I noticed it when Lucy was voted out, then this past episode with all the attention on the "romance." I'm pretty sure he gets fed information about what's happening in the camps, otherwise he wouldn't know what questions to ask, but I'd rather not have him influencing the vote. I'll watch more closely next week to see if I can get some examples of questions. (Or rewatch this past episode.)

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

On Hannah's panic attacks and the exhortations to "snap out of it": my father suffered from panic attacks (although I didn't know about it until after he was dead, because he hid them) and ultimately took his own life.  I get pretty angry when I see people seem to literally advocate the Bob Newhart "Just stop it" school of psychiatry.  I get it: you don't experience these things, and can't relate with them. 

I'm sorry about your father. Today, though, there are MANY ways to deal with it that weren't available to your father. Cognitive and behavioral therapy, medications, etc.  I have a couple of men in my life with mental health issues.  Both seem to be way too comfortable living on disability at the taxpayers' expense while spending their days biking, going out for coffee etc.  One is a schizophrenic who OFTEN doesn't take his meds and the other suffers from depression--but his outbreaks most often occur when he is required to 1) go do volunteer work as a condition of his (partial) disability payments  2) help someone else do something that he really doesn't want to do.  

[Guest]

7 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Well, she's just calling out his bullshit on saying "I don't even care about the money," etc.  If he meant it, he's a moron and yes, I agree with her, fall on your sword for someone who actually cares, please.  If he didn't mean it then why is he saying something so ridiculous?

I think he said it in his CBS profile and it was more like, "I'm here to play and to win, not for the money", which seems ok to me.  It's not like he said, "I'm here to cuddle with Figgy."  

Here's what he said there:

Reason for being on Survivor:
In all honesty, I have not thought about the money; I just want to kick ass at this game.

[Archery]

10 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I think it would be more of an issue.  I can see only two ways it would play out, if it had been two men.  Okay, come to think of it, three (and I'm sure there are some less likely variations I'm not thinking of off the top of my head).

(1) The man in Hannah's position is also a strong personality, and does not stand for it whatsoever, right in the moment.  In response to "Shut up", he fires back with "how about YOU shut the fuck up!"  Some of the more hotheaded men we've seen on Survivor might have even come close to engaging in physical violence.

(2) The man in Hannah's position does not say anything (either for strategic reasons, or because he kind of freezes up at the moment) but is very conscious of having been disrespected in front of everyone (including millions of viewers) and inwardly seethes with anger, burning with the desire for revenge even if he puts on a nonchalant exterior.

(3) The man in Hannah's position is actually a milquetoast, a pushover.  He doesn't fight back, doesn't complain, doesn't even seethe with a thirst for revenge.  In which case the man in Michaela's position would find him utterly contemptible, as would (most likely) everyone else, including the vast majority of the TV audience.

All of these are premised on the assumption that Michaela, who is clearly controlling the table and getting the job done, does not have the right to say to her partner some variation of "Shut up, you are distracting me.  I know what I am doing -- let me do it."  Had it been two men, the response would likely have been, He took control of that situation and got it done.  Two women?  She's a mean b*tch.  Kinda like real life.

[SlackerInc]

Except in real life I'm a stay-at-home dad who doesn't leave the house without making sure I'm prominently displaying my Hillary Clinton button.  So that attempt to pigeonhole my reaction ain't gonna fly.

[fishcakes]

I don't think you two are talking about the same thing, but I think you're both correct. @SlackerInc, you're saying if it were two men, it would be more of an issue for the players involved, and @Archery is saying if it were two men it would be less of an issue for the audience. Both of those things sound right to me.

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I think the season theme is working its subtle work on our Ken, and he is thinking of these millenials as if he were their grandpa, which is kind of silly since he's what, like 10 years older than Figgy?

I was loling so hard at all his 'These kids!' type comments. Like Ken buddy you're only 10 years older than these people.

8 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Silly me: when I quickly read posts, I get Michelle and Michaela confused, because my eyes seem to scan the page and see what they want to see. Must learn to slow read.     

I keep doing this too and it is very confusing!

This talk about how panic attacks aren't real and it's all about attention and how people are faking mental illness in order to get tax payer's money is really disheartening.

Edited October 28, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[fishcakes]

16 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was loling so hard at all his 'These kids!' type comments. Like Ken buddy you're only 10 years older than these people.

I got a kick out of how he and Probst seemed to be in it together. They were looking at each other and chuckling, all, "ha ha kids today don't know what it was like when we only had radio and got married when we were thirteen."

[Lamb18]

18 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Sure. I think it's possible. There have been players with little airtime that have made it decently far in the game.

Yes, like Michelle from last season.

[Dominii]

Quote

And note to Figgy, no one voted you out because you were such a threat to win.  It was to break up a power couple.  And you are irritating.

THIS. THIS. THIS! And Figgy, sweetums, you are no Rob.  You aren't even close. Rob is (as he would say it) "wicked smart," and you, dearest Figgy, are definitely NOT.

Who I'd like to see in the final five:

1.Michaela; 2.Chris; 3.Ken; 4.David; 5.Adam. Any one of these 5 can win and I'll be satisfied...

Edited October 28, 2016 by Dominii

[laurakaye]

On 10/27/2016 at 1:22 PM, blackwing said:

Agree re David.  He is absolutely useless and yet the show is fixated on him.  He has an idol and maybe he will use it to great advantage.  I wouldn't at all be surprised if he is in the final three given all of the time the show spends on him. 

One person's "useless" is another person's "would love to see him win."  I am in the latter category regarding David.

I'm not understanding how David is "useless."  Having found two idols already, he is one of a handful of players who knows what to look for while idol-searching.  He's already changed the game once by playing an idol to save Jessica.  He voted off one of his own Gen-Xer's to keep his tribe strong for the time being.  He's looking beyond just having the numbers (as some of the millennials seem to be doing).  As he says, he's thinking long-term, five moves ahead.  He's smart and well-spoken.  He started off by being scared of everything, and yet he seems to have calmed down, acclimated to the surroundings, and in my opinion is one of the top players making strategic moves in the game this season.  He may struggle in challenges, but that's only one aspect of the game.

When I think in terms of "useless" players this season I think of Taylor, who slobbered behind Figgy and literally would've done whatever she wanted him to do.  Same with CiCi  - she was not seen doing any strategizing on her own and was prepared to go along with whatever her tribe wanted.

I'm Team David all the way.

[PerfidiousAmber]

Aaahh, that was just so damn satisfying. I think I hated Figgy more than any other contestant on this show. She had two of my most hated qualities combined in a horrific melange - stupidity and arrogance. Her constant bragging about being in the "power couple" giving her omnipotent powers was insufferable, as was the way she lorded it over everyone else. I just about fell off the couch laughing at her reaction at finding out her well kept "secret" had immediately been seen through by Ken and Jessica. Ken's response in particular was hilarious. He has a wonderful dry sense of humor. (His comments at tribal were great as well.) And her idiotic blunder at giving a shout out to Michelle, and then half-heartedly to Zeke as an afterthought.... eeesh. I don't think Adam had to really think too hard about which side to go with - although the Millennials had the numbers over Gen-X'rs, he had to have known that Figgy would cut his throat in a minute - he, was at the bottom of that alliance, he had voted for her before and she made it obvious that she had a grudge about that. Also, FigTayls were such idiots at playing the game that any alliance with them would have a fair chance of self-sabotaging itself.

I was still so worried for Ken at the tribal! He can never go home!!! I would love for him to win but I don't know how realistic that is. My second favorite is Michaela. I know she's blunt and at times abrasive, but she was right in telling Hannah what to do in the challenge, Hannah was completely screwing it up and in the challenge there's no time to be tactful and polite. Her action led to them handily winning the challenge. She did let her know afterward that it wasn't personal as well.

[simplyme]

Figgy wasn't evil, she was just very, um, junior high-ish to me. As a viewer, I found her irritating and surprisingly oblivious according to the edit. (Taylor even moreso.)

I did notice one thing she did at TC that would have made me vote for her if I were Adam and I were straddling the fence. When she said Adam voted for her but she didn't hold a grudge, she grabbed his head. I think she meant it to come off as "Hey, look! I'm playful! We're buds!" but unless you actually know someone really well and have a very affectionate bond, that actually is a power move. You do not touch someone's face or head unless you know they are receptive. Try that with a dog and you'll get bitten. That's essentially what happened to her.

[ghoulina]

11 hours ago, Cynna said:

OMG, this. I feel like a 15 year old. It's not about his looks first, it's his demeanour, voice, humour. His eyes when he explained to Jessica to trust him - that got me. Bad.  :sigh:

His love of words and vinyl. His ability to feed us if we were ever stranded on an island. (Hey, it could happen!)

 

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

One person's "useless" is another person's "would love to see him win."  I am in the latter category regarding David.

I'm not understanding how David is "useless."  Having found two idols already, he is one of a handful of players who knows what to look for while idol-searching.  He's already changed the game once by playing an idol to save Jessica.  He voted off one of his own Gen-Xer's to keep his tribe strong for the time being.  He's looking beyond just having the numbers (as some of the millennials seem to be doing).  As he says, he's thinking long-term, five moves ahead.  He's smart and well-spoken.  He started off by being scared of everything, and yet he seems to have calmed down, acclimated to the surroundings, and in my opinion is one of the top players making strategic moves in the game this season.  He may struggle in challenges, but that's only one aspect of the game.

When I think in terms of "useless" players this season I think of Taylor, who slobbered behind Figgy and literally would've done whatever she wanted him to do.  Same with CiCi  - she was not seen doing any strategizing on her own and was prepared to go along with whatever her tribe wanted.

I'm Team David all the way.

Agree with this 1000%. David isn't my number one, but I'd definitely like to see him go far. He's been useless in quite a few of the challenges, but he has done alright in others. He also made fire, and that's HUGE for a guy who was afraid of the sound of an axe on day one. I think his strategy and determination have made up for his lack of physical strength. I would find someone like Sunday more "useless" - as she hasn't been amazing in challenges either, and doesn't really seem to think for herself. Mentally, David is PLAYING. 

[303420]

I have anxiety and panic attacks. Sometimes I don't have them for months, sometimes I have several in a week. By now I can tell when one is coming on and take medication immediately, but I've also had them when I don't have my meds nearby. Without the meds, the knowledge that it's just a panic attack is hard to keep up when my body feels like it's trying to turn itself inside out; I need support during these. They don't last very long; maybe a few minutes. I can't say that anything in particular triggers my panic attacks; I've had them after not being able to find a parking space (but not every time), I've had them when I decide I didn't cut the dinner vegetables right (even if they're impeccable, not that it matters), and I've had them for nothing at all.

They don't severely impact my ability to live and thrive, though. They don't happen more often than they do, and I'm lucky to have access to a support system and meds and stuff like that. Hannah probably does too, in real life, so it probably isn't usually that big a deal for her. I guess I'm saying all this because while I think it's important that people understand that panic attacks are very real and very shitty, I also don't think it's some extraordinary act of bravery for her to go on the show. I like Hannah, and I thought she handled it just fine.

If I had the opportunity to go on Survivor I'd take it in a heartbeat. I probably wouldn't have a panic attack, and if I did, I think I could probably just manage it, and if I couldn't, I know it's not going to kill me.

I thought the way that Michaela talked to Hannah was fine in the context. I've played competitive team sports well aware that I'm one of the weaker members of the team. When the better people yelled at me, it might've not felt great, but I'm not going to argue and I'm going to do what the better player said, because the team comes first. As soon as the competition is over, you can drop the intensity. That's exactly what Michaela did.

I don't know whether Michaela has a history of team sports, but in addition to the above, I think her allegiance to the Millennials suggests it. They're her team and will remain so. For that reason she may be likely to target a traitor to the team (Adam) over someone from the other team with whom she's made a connection (e.g., Bret).

On 10/27/2016 at 0:12 AM, KimberStormer said:

I thiiiiink I would have gone the same way Adam did.  One thing to worry about is that it will be extremely clear to all other Millenials what happened.  No way he can possibly not take the heat for that: obviously it wasn't Taylor who flipped on Figgy.  And, with Michaela brazenly helping the orange tribe at the challenge it seems there is some open agreement that the Millenials want to keep their Millenial numbers above all else.  (Exactly as Taylor and Figgy made this assumption, Michaela made it too, openly in front of her own current tribemates from Gen X, which seems very very risky to me.)  So that's a big risk!  BUT I think, for Adam, it was probably the right move.  Getting to the merge with the numbers means nothing if you can't win from that position.  Taking the short-term dangerous move to help the long game is always what I like to see.  Too many moving parts to see where he goes from here, but teaming up with the Ken/Jessica/Dave team, perhaps with Zeke and Chris, could really work for him.

I think your explanation shows exactly why Adam's move was the right move (and David's playing the idol for Jessica was the right move and Cochran flipping on the pretty people was the right move, but I digress...)

The question is not only who you're saving, it's who you're booting instead. It doesn't only matter that saving Ken will be long-term good for Adam, it's that booting Figgy is also independently good for him. Trading Figgy, a high-ranking member of an alliance of which he's at the bottom, for Ken, with whom from his perspective, he's in the process of founding an alliance, is gravy.

On 10/27/2016 at 9:16 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I don't think it had anything to do with gender or race, but it still sucks that 5 of the first 6 booted were women and 4 (And possibly all 5. I read somewhere that Figgy was Puerto Rican but I don't know if that's true.) of them were WOC.

True. Her last name is Figueroa; she's definitely Latina. 

[PerfidiousAmber]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

His love of words and vinyl. His ability to feed us if we were ever stranded on an island. (Hey, it could happen!)

Oh my god, now I'm dreaming of being stranded on a deserted island with Ken...

[PerfidiousAmber]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

One person's "useless" is another person's "would love to see him win."  I am in the latter category regarding David.

I'm not understanding how David is "useless."  Having found two idols already, he is one of a handful of players who knows what to look for while idol-searching.  He's already changed the game once by playing an idol to save Jessica.  He voted off one of his own Gen-Xer's to keep his tribe strong for the time being.  He's looking beyond just having the numbers (as some of the millennials seem to be doing).  As he says, he's thinking long-term, five moves ahead.  He's smart and well-spoken.  He started off by being scared of everything, and yet he seems to have calmed down, acclimated to the surroundings, and in my opinion is one of the top players making strategic moves in the game this season.  He may struggle in challenges, but that's only one aspect of the game.

When I think in terms of "useless" players this season I think of Taylor, who slobbered behind Figgy and literally would've done whatever she wanted him to do.  Same with CiCi  - she was not seen doing any strategizing on her own and was prepared to go along with whatever her tribe wanted.

I'm Team David all the way.

Agree with this 1000%. David isn't my number one, but I'd definitely like to see him go far. He's been useless in quite a few of the challenges, but he has done alright in others. He also made fire, and that's HUGE for a guy who was afraid of the sound of an axe on day one. I think his strategy and determination have made up for his lack of physical strength. I would find someone like Sunday more "useless" - as she hasn't been amazing in challenges either, and doesn't really seem to think for herself. Mentally, David is PLAYING. 

Exactly. Many Survivor contestants who sucked at physical challenges have made it far. Look at Cochran. David is a refreshing example of someone putting his all into playing a strategic game, and although he is afraid of the outdoors, he's not afraid of making bold moves rather than playing if safe. He came from the bottom of his alliance to being a stronger member in a new alliance. (Not to mention the two idols.) In the useless category I would put the dearly departed Figs. (Tayls at least does well in the challenges. )

[Adeejay]

I am just glad Ken survived.  He is so much fun to look at.

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

 I have a couple of men in my life with mental health issues.  Both seem to be way too comfortable living on disability at the taxpayers' expense while spending their days biking, going out for coffee etc.  One is a schizophrenic who OFTEN doesn't take his meds and the other suffers from depression--but his outbreaks most often occur when he is required to 1) go do volunteer work as a condition of his (partial) disability payments  2) help someone else do something that he really doesn't want to do.  

Fully 80% of people with schizophrenia are unemployed and it's not because they only want to go bike riding and drink coffee.  It's because you can bike ride and listen to a constant voice in your head saying you're a loser and you should kill yourself -- at the same time.  It's harder to listen to your boss's directions over that.  It's hard to work at McDonalds when the manager tells you to go in the freezer for something and you know, just know, that there are monsters in there.  It's hard to go do the volunteer work when you think the people there are plotting to kill you. 

Schizophrenia is the number one disabler of young people.  Doctors rank it in the top four or five worst diseases. It comes with a constant overwhelming sense of impending doom.  Think of the sudden, unreasoning fear you have when you're alone at night and you hear "something' in the kitchen.  Imagine having that all day and all night and not being able to sleep because of it.  Remember your worst nightmare and how it felt to wake up and reassure yourself that the floor was not covered with snakes.  Now imagine waking up and it's still covered with snakes.  Medication helps some people a lot and some not much at all and it also comes with a fear that it is actually a mind control drug.  No one can control the amount of dopamine in his brain by  a strength of will, no one can determine reality well without it.  It's like expecting a diabetic to just try hard to make more insulin.

[MissEwa]

9 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I have a couple of men in my life with mental health issues.  Both seem to be way too comfortable living on disability at the taxpayers' expense while spending their days biking, going out for coffee etc.  One is a schizophrenic who OFTEN doesn't take his meds and the other suffers from depression--but his outbreaks most often occur when he is required to 1) go do volunteer work as a condition of his (partial) disability payments  2) help someone else do something that he really doesn't want to do.  

I don't want to bring more attention to this post than it deserves but this is awfully similar to 'I know a couple of POC who... *insert outdated, offensive stereotype here* so it's probably true for all of them' logic. With a side of really, really not understanding the issues affecting these people and causing them to act the way they are.

I'd also like to thank the people in this forum who are sharing their experiences of mental health issues, especially @SlackerInc, whose last paragraph was so, so important. 

I don't like or dislike Hannah particularly, but I think the whole thing was handled well by everyone there. I also don't have a problem with her being cast or applying to be on Survivor. If everyone with mental health issues (in Australia, the stats are 1 in 4 people suffering a MI at some point in their lives, so that's a LOT of people) stayed at home and avoided putting themselves stressful situations... wouldn't that just be playing into the stereotype even more? 

 

[shortsummers]

As soon as the Green team sees that Figgy is gone it has to occur to them that the best thing is to throw the next immunity challenge to get rid of one of the GenXers.  At some point it has to occur to the Purple and Orange teams that it would be advantageous to lose the challenge to vote out Taylor and Michelle.  This could prove interesting because I think that Ken has too much honor to throw a challenge and Michaela and Chris are too competitive to throw one.  Of course, the Green team can just leave Michaela out of the challenge and solve that problem.  What happens if all three teams refuse to win an immunity challenge?  What does Survivor do then?

[violet and green]

I think Michaela is mean. Mean as a rattlesnake. Just vicious and mean. The rage and contempt when she speaks about other people in her confessionals is quite telling. Yes, it's nice she has a strong and powerful body and a focussed intent in challenges, and impressive willpower and amazing stamina. But the mean streak is riddled all through her, and comes spitting out of her mouth like poison. She's good to have on the screen, and all - but this is more than a tact issue or being a bit 'blunt'.

Every season there is an unlikely heroine, though. I prefer Ken. Also lovely to look at, good in challenges, quickwitted and insightful in his comments, and seems like a decent human being. I'm sure he has his faults, but being a big bag of spite ready to explode and axe a mother is not one of them.

[violet and green]

21 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

As Cher said in "Moonstruck" ... "Snap out of it!"  

Maybe she isn't meek, she's just a pampered little Millennial princess.  As a radio therapist once said, "Most people who claim they are sensitive people are usually sensitive about their own feelings and nobody else's." 

I accept that panic attacks are real, but seriously, if a young handsome doctor paying attention to her caused her to get over it so quickly ... her attacks might be self-generated for attention.  Just sayin' ... 

Good lord! The doctor was stabilising the oxygen levels in her blood etc by getting her to breathe in time with him, rather than the overly rapid breathing of panic. You should look into the biology of the thing. It's a physical event.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Schizophrenia is the number one disabler of young people.  Doctors rank it in the top four or five worst diseases. It comes with a constant overwhelming sense of impending doom. 

Not everyone has such a severe case.  

Quote

Good lord! The doctor was stabilising the oxygen levels in her blood etc by getting her to breathe in time with him, rather than the overly rapid breathing of panic. You should look into the biology of the thing. It's a physical event.

I would have thought she would have been trained to change her breathing pattern--with meditation techniques etc. Just like a diabetic or an epileptic learns how to recognize symptoms and act accordingly.

Edited October 29, 2016 by AuntieDiane6

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Not everyone has such a severe case.  

I would have thought she would have been trained to change her breathing pattern--with meditation techniques etc. Just like a diabetic or an epileptic learns how to recognize symptoms and act accordingly.

Hannah probably does these things - in the real world.  But on Survivor, it's just as likely she's dehydrated and/or heading to heat exhaustion.  Paul (?) experienced heat exhaustion and went down.  And he wasn't doing anything strenuous.  Hannah couldn't tell which was happening, and the doctor gave a credible reason for how it snuck up on her.   And there are many diabetics and epileptics who can't so easily "act accordingly".  That's why many use therapy dogs who can sense their condition and signal a warning. 

[sassykattt]

A few things.  I remember Romber.  That was a Power Couple, and a real romance.  Figtayls had no power, no savvy and no partnership.  They were a power couple in their dreams. BTW, Rob and Amber have like 3 or 4 kids and are still together. 

Ken.  I think besides his beauty, brains and wit, he's a honest to God adult male.  Not an overgrown boy, not a grumpy old man, a real man.

I first noticed Michaela when she ran for something in the first episode and I thought "WOW".  She continues to impress me.  If I were her

I'd move on Ken

[PerfidiousAmber]

On 10/27/2016 at 7:51 AM, simplyme said:

On 10/27/2016 at 6:48 AM, TaraS1 said:

My unpopular, old lady opinion is that I find a lot of the anxiety/panic attack stuff that seems so prevalent today (especially in younger people online - the percentage of kids on Twitter and tumblr having "anxiety" on a daily basis must be staggering lol), to be a total crutch and made up excuse for not dealing with your shit like the rest of us.  Not all, of course, but some.

There is a huge difference between feeling anxious (which we all do to some degree at varying times) and having panic attacks. As another "old lady" (*waves a cane in greeting*), most people I know personally who have developed panic attacks have gone through some significant life events like the death of a loved one or a traumatic event. (Stress does also play a huge role.)

As to Hannah's question, "You won't let me die?": Part of that may be her anxious nature, but if you've ever had a panic attack where you are struggling to breathe and your heart pounds and races (to the point where people think they are having a heart attack), you also know why she might feel that way. No, she won't die, but it's hard to be rational mid-attack without external feedback telling her that.

I am a fellow "old lady" Gen-X'r who suffered from panic attacks when I was in my late teens/early twenties. I had gone through a horribly traumatic experience involving the loss of a loved one and several other huge stresses at the same time. Yes, you really do develop physical symptoms and yes, you really do feel absolutely certain that you're about to die. It is the most horrible experience to ever go through. My heart went out to Hannah when she asked "you won't let me die?" as I knew absolutely what she was feeling. Let me repeat that in a true panic attack you feel CERTAIN that you are about to die, regardless of what logic is telling you.

Edited to add: And in my case there seemed to be no obvious trigger for the attacks, they would come out of the blue. Which was even scarier.

Edited October 29, 2016 by PerfidiousAmber

[Guest]

I think seeing Caleb's helicopter med-evac probably scared a lot of Survivor players.  And when you add in sleep deprivation and everything else they're subjected to, it's probably easy to feel very vulnerable and weak out there.  (The jet lag alone would make me useless the first week.)

[SVNBob]

17 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

I've begun to think that Jeff is telegraphing who he wants voted out by the questions and comments he makes at tribal council. I noticed it when Lucy was voted out, then this past episode with all the attention on the "romance." I'm pretty sure he gets fed information about what's happening in the camps, otherwise he wouldn't know what questions to ask,

Tribal Council lasts longer than the 10 minutes we see on screen.  Previous contestants have stated it can take several hours.  The reason it looks like Jeff is so prescient in his questioning is that the editors primarily use the questions relevant to the result of the vote to fill the time allotted for TC in the episode.

Since this TC was about Adam choosing sides and the dissolution of the -mance, the editors used the questions related to that topic, with slightly more focus on the members of the -mance.  Plus there's always the need to make entertaining TV.  Hence, Jeff's mention of him being an ordained minister (sidenote: I am too, probably in the same church), thus willing and able to "create another Survivor first" (he's still upset that Rob and Amber didn't take him up on the offer).

Going back to Lucy's booting, the decision at that TC was "Lucy or Jessica".  So the editors didn't bother with showing us any of Jeff's questions regarding anyone else.  For example, since there was no doubt that Sunday would still be around, any/all of Jeff's questioning regarding her potentially getting booted (was she nervous, why should they keep you, asking someone else (Bret, say) why they might vote for her) hit the cutting room floor.

TL;DR version.  It's not Jeff influencing the vote; it's the editors influencing us.

[ghoulina]

13 hours ago, shortsummers said:

As soon as the Green team sees that Figgy is gone it has to occur to them that the best thing is to throw the next immunity challenge to get rid of one of the GenXers.  At some point it has to occur to the Purple and Orange teams that it would be advantageous to lose the challenge to vote out Taylor and Michelle.  This could prove interesting because I think that Ken has too much honor to throw a challenge and Michaela and Chris are too competitive to throw one.  Of course, the Green team can just leave Michaela out of the challenge and solve that problem.  What happens if all three teams refuse to win an immunity challenge?  What does Survivor do then?

Interesting. I could actually see Michaeala winning the challenge for her team, even if they were trying to throw it. And you'd reckon that Sunday and Brett wouldn't be in on it, since they'd be one of the two to go. So you'd just have Hannah and Will and Jay trying to lose, and since they're 2 ahead, 2 would sit out anyway. Chance are at least ONE of the 4 who wanted to throw it would be on the bench. But that kind of strategy does open up a whole bunch of possibilities. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by ghoulina

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, sassykattt said:

[Ken is] Not an overgrown boy, not a grumpy old man, a real man.

You sure about that? ;)

[Blissfool]

On 10/27/2016 at 5:17 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Oh man, I miss The Mole!

Is this what we're calling Figgy now?

If the sole purpose was to break up the self-proclaimed power couple, why not eliminate Taylor instead?

[Blissfool]

16 hours ago, PerfidiousAmber said:

I am a fellow "old lady" Gen-X'r who suffered from panic attacks when I was in my late teens/early twenties. I had gone through a horribly traumatic experience involving the loss of a loved one and several other huge stresses at the same time. Yes, you really do develop physical symptoms and yes, you really do feel absolutely certain that you're about to die. It is the most horrible experience to ever go through. My heart went out to Hannah when she asked "you won't let me die?" as I knew absolutely what she was feeling. Let me repeat that in a true panic attack you feel CERTAIN that you are about to die, regardless of what logic is telling you.

Edited to add: And in my case there seemed to be no obvious trigger for the attacks, they would come out of the blue. Which was even scarier.

The symptoms Hannah was describing sounded really scary to me. I woud have said "breathing too rapidly? Yeah, right, doc. Get me outta here. I need a second opinion to explain these strange neurological symptoms."

But, then again, I'm not familiar with panic attacks. I guess hannah recognized the symptoms once she was reassured by the doctor. 

[simplyme]

19 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Not everyone has such a severe case.  

I would have thought she would have been trained to change her breathing pattern--with meditation techniques etc. Just like a diabetic or an epileptic learns how to recognize symptoms and act accordingly.

Definition of panic from Oxford dictionary: Sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behaviour

You're expecting someone in an illogical state to act logically. While they can sometimes catch it early enough and use their training to exert some control, you're asking a lot about a condition that varies wildly from person to person and situation to situation.

I'll note that fire exits must be unlocked and clear at all times because experience has shown that if they are not, panicked people will not stop and wait for them to be unlocked or items to be cleared. They'll crush others to death. They cannot do the calm, rational thing.

One year I had a Very Bad Year. I went through a divorce (amicable, but still sad and stressful) and had five close friends and family members die and another diagnosed with terminal cancer. Every two months or so, BAM! My therapist moved and I got stuck with a useless therapist who said things like, "Do you think you're crying a lot because something bad may have happened to you during your childhood?" (I thought my response of, "No. I think I'm crying a lot because people keep DYING" was pretty tactful since I left off the "You tool.") I was put on depression medication and had bad anxiety and then started having panic attacks. I had one at work, out of the blue, though I managed to get out of the public area and into an office and convince my coworkers not to call 911. (They sent me home. Some understood, but after that, several referred to me as crazy. Before that I'd always been the golden girl.) Turns out the depression medication made me highly anxious. I switched meds (and now have that one listed as an allergy. Never, ever again.) People stopped dying. Time passed and I had time to process things. I found a decent therapist and stopped having panic attacks. I burned the calendar at the end of the year. Life went on.

And to some people, I'm SimplyMe, and to a few others, I will forever be "that crazy girl" because no matter what you say to them, they cannot comprehend a panic attack.

So I knew exactly what Hannah meant when she said some people were judging her. I also know that you can intellellectually realize what is going on, but be unable to stop a panic attack from occurring. Because trust me, almost the last thing I wanted to do was lie on the floor, shake, and gasp frantically for air in front of people I worked with and respected.

I've had some panic attacks since (for me, stress and trauma seem to drive them), but fortunately they've all been at home. But I do have some respect for Hannah because living with panic attacks can be frustrating, and there is one hell of a stigma associated with them.

I'll spare you all any more posts on this topic from me. :)

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, Blissfool said:

Is this what we're calling Figgy now?

If the sole purpose was to break up the self-proclaimed power couple, why not eliminate Taylor instead?

Neither of them were bright, but Figgy seemed to be "the brains" and made the decisions.  At least that seems to be the impression their tribe mates had.

ETA:  And Figgy had just helped them lose two challenges.  Maybe they thought they should keep Taylor to help win challenges.

Edited October 29, 2016 by RedheadZombie
one more opinion

[hincandenza]

On 10/28/2016 at 4:37 PM, shortsummers said:

As soon as the Green team sees that Figgy is gone it has to occur to them that the best thing is to throw the next immunity challenge to get rid of one of the GenXers.  At some point it has to occur to the Purple and Orange teams that it would be advantageous to lose the challenge to vote out Taylor and Michelle.  This could prove interesting because I think that Ken has too much honor to throw a challenge and Michaela and Chris are too competitive to throw one.  Of course, the Green team can just leave Michaela out of the challenge and solve that problem.  What happens if all three teams refuse to win an immunity challenge?  What does Survivor do then?

Generally speaking, throwing challenges almost never works.  Usually it doesn't materialize because at the end of the day, having team immunity means you are personally guaranteed to move one spot up in the rankings/make a merge/go further, so people don't commit; besides, after 3 days with a new group of people, new friendships and hate-ships will form, alliances will shift, and the old tribal boundaries seem weak.  I'd hazard at this point that people like Zeke and Adam of the Millenials have more kinship with some of the Gen X-ers; that Chris/Zeke pairing is both unlikely and low-key enough that it might be a pivotal alliance down the road.

The rare exception to me is Pei-Geh and Jaime in S15 (China), when the producers did a swap of two members eachg between the tribes which allowed a depleted tribe to realize that throwing two challenges would let them pick off two strong players from the opposing tribe/alliance just prior to a merge; it is one of my all-time favorite Survivor game-theory moments, which of course dumb Jeff Probst went apeshit about because it defied the he-man masculine ethos of Survivor.  Sadly, this strategy didn't work because a) Jeff is a dick, and b) their former tribemates Frosti and whiny lunch lady Denise were stupid about it.  My memory may be failing, but I believe in the next immunity challenge the word had gotten out, and the majority tribe had snuck an II to James so that if they lost the IC again on purpose, he could use it to bounce the vote.  Even trying to lose, the Zhan Hu tribe still won.  

But given that the individual tribe sizes are small, it's too big a risk to throw a challenge at this point; all it takes is one "wild card" to flip and you're out of the game.  I don't think we'd ever see 3 tribes try to throw a challenge; if they did, I figure either one of the teams would realize "Fuck it, we can win and be safe" and break with the pact, or Probst and Survivor retain the right to switch up the rules.  I think if they were at a stalemate of 2-3 teams throwing an IC, they'd probably let some time elapse and say "Fine, then you're ALL going to tribal tonight". 

As an aside, I will literally die if post-merge David suddenly reveals himself to be some kind of Ozzy-level challenge beast, and he really was throwing challenges this whole time. :)

 

On 10/28/2016 at 5:32 PM, violet and green said:

I think Michaela is mean. Mean as a rattlesnake. Just vicious and mean. The rage and contempt when she speaks about other people in her confessionals is quite telling. Yes, it's nice she has a strong and powerful body and a focussed intent in challenges, and impressive willpower and amazing stamina. But the mean streak is riddled all through her, and comes spitting out of her mouth like poison. She's good to have on the screen, and all - but this is more than a tact issue or being a bit 'blunt'.

Every season there is an unlikely heroine, though. I prefer Ken. Also lovely to look at, good in challenges, quickwitted and insightful in his comments, and seems like a decent human being. I'm sure he has his faults, but being a big bag of spite ready to explode and axe a mother is not one of them.

I don't know if she's rattlesnake-levels of vicious, but she clearly has a... weird?... attitude.  You'd think she was forced to be on this show the way she snipes and snarks at both other players and the nature of the game itself, and both to their faces and in confessionals she's kind of a dick.  That's fine now, and people like her... but I don't think she'll last long past the merge, both because she is a challenge threat and because she will seem more and more off-putting as the numbers dwindle.  Her "Everyone else is an idiot, especially when they don't do what I want" attitude reminds me of ChaosKass, although in Michaela's defense she's probably about half the age Kass was in her season(s).  So I'll cut her slack because even I- a virtual paragon of human moral and spiritual perfection now- was kind of a smug asshole in my younger years. :)

 

5 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Is this what we're calling Figgy now?

If the sole purpose was to break up the self-proclaimed power couple, why not eliminate Taylor instead?

 

4 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Neither of them were bright, but Figgy seemed to be "the brains" and made the decisions.  At least that seems to be the impression their tribe mates had.

ETA:  And Figgy had just helped them lose two challenges.  Maybe they thought they should keep Taylor to help win challenges.

What RedHeadZombie said.  I think it depends on the stage of the game, but in general I think you want to get rid of people who are (in order):

• Major challenge threats, i.e., "win 4 in a row" type threats (usually near or after a merge)
• "Wild cards", i.e., the crazy people who flip-flop on an hourly basis depending on who they perceive as having "wronged" them over breakfast.
• Clearly strong social players with a lot of friendly ties to different people; no one wants to be next to them at the end
• Cunning players who scheme and double-cross.

The last group is most everyone who survives to the merge and doesn't fit the other categories, but at the end of the day you can't really hate on someone who plays rationally to win- plus that scheming could and often does backfire, as it almost did to David this season- and they are preferable to either straight-up challenge beasts or the unpredictability of psycho-nutjob players.  However, Taylor is basically no threat since he doesn't seem to fit any of these: he's likable, but he's not cunning.  He doesn't seem to be particularly savvy in the game; while he's still in it, it's clear no one expects him to be orchestrating any big moves.  At best, he's your willing pawn; at worst, he's someone else's willing pawn.  Of the two, you axe Figgy now, and worry about Taylor when he becomes a bottom-of-the-pack in some other alliance post-merge.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, hincandenza said:

 I think if they were at a stalemate of 2-3 teams throwing an IC, they'd probably let some time elapse and say "Fine, then you're ALL going to tribal tonight". 

I feel like these people agree in their contract to compete in each challenge until it's over or they physically can't, even if it's a total blowout or they want to throw it.  They can throw it but they can't stand there and do nothing while the game clock is running.  And if they tried, I agree, Probst would threaten to send them all to tribal or something worse.  Or if all competing tribes were clearly "playing" but not to win, and it was dragging out.   

[SlackerInc]

9 hours ago, hincandenza said:

I don't know if she's rattlesnake-levels of vicious, but she clearly has a... weird?... attitude.  You'd think she was forced to be on this show the way she snipes and snarks at both other players and the nature of the game itself, and both to their faces and in confessionals she's kind of a dick.

This.  (Actually, that whole post was on point, primo stuff; but this was what I wanted to highlight.)

9 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I feel like these people agree in their contract to compete in each challenge until it's over or they physically can't, even if it's a total blowout or they want to throw it.  They can throw it but they can't stand there and do nothing while the game clock is running.  And if they tried, I agree, Probst would threaten to send them all to tribal or something worse.  Or if all competing tribes were clearly "playing" but not to win, and it was dragging out.   

Makes sense.  I'm a tennis nut, and I know in pro tennis, players can be fined if they are judged to be "tanking", not putting in their best effort.  I mean, if it's in league with gamblers, they can get in huge trouble, of course; but even if it's just that they got blown out the first two sets and they know they have no chance against Djokovic (or whomever), they can't just be like "okay, this sucks, I want to get to the showers".  They're supposed to continue to try their best to the end, for the sake of the fans watching--and the same idea applies here (although it could be argued that three tribes trying to "tank" could be interesting to watch in its own way).  Of course, this is hard to prove if it's done subtly, so it would be kind of funny if they were all trying to appear as though they were trying, but still trying to lose.

[kikaha]

On 10/28/2016 at 3:32 PM, simplyme said:

I did notice one thing she did at TC that would have made me vote for her if I were Adam and I were straddling the fence. When she said Adam voted for her but she didn't hold a grudge, she grabbed his head. I think she meant it to come off as "Hey, look! I'm playful! We're buds!" but unless you actually know someone really well and have a very affectionate bond, that actually is a power move. You do not touch someone's face or head unless you know they are receptive. Try that with a dog and you'll get bitten. That's essentially what happened to her.