S11.E16: Bringing Up Old Ghosts

[zoeysmom]

Kelly seems to lack the ability to read people and substitutes her paranoid ideations for what the others are actually doing.  Kelly claims the Bailey's BBQ was so tense and when given the appropriate segue to apologize she grabbed it.  "My apology was heartfelt and sincere.  As usual my apology was not really accepted."  There are reasons for her apology not being accepted and like much of Kelly's thinking she assumed Tamra would have to apologize for her reactions to Kelly's comments.  So to say my apology was heartfelt and sincere and to expect not only an apology from Tamra but forgiveness is a prime example of why Kelly's ability to read people is off.  She didn't apologize because she felt bad she apologized to draw attention to herself and hope for a confession from Tamra she had terrorized Kelly. 

So when Kelly decided after the dinner at Bailey's should would drink no more on the trip, what she was actually saying, is I won't drink on camera any more so I can be  able to say whatever situation arises-I wasn't drinking.  I do believe Kelly was sending mixed signals claiming she wanted to go drinking after dinner, when filming stopped, but not during dinner.  I believe that is why the ladies were side eyeing her because her not drinking at dinner was disingenuous to what she had planned for later.  This is evidenced by Tamra's claim that 20 minutes after dinner Vicki and Kelly came to her door to go out for drinks.  Further evidence lies in this Tweet from Shannon:

Kelly who did not want to drink showed up at my door ready to go out and drink 30 minutes after dinner. #hypocrite#actress#RHOC

There is a huge culture within the RH realm about doing and saying one thing on camera and another thing off camera.  That is why the non-drinking came in the way of talking heads and post-Ireland conjecture.  I don't think anyone really wanted to be with Kelly one on one or even with the group after her dinner performance because she was faking it.  If she was so hurt and had such an emotional hangover why would she want to go out after filming stopped? 

In furtherance of Kelly's inability to read others in her sphere, there was just no way these women collectively or separately wanted another Kelly therapy session with her tossing out of excuses for her behavior, peppered with placing blame on the others for her behavior.

The life lesson Kelly needs to learn is, "if you don't like someone you can't expect that someone to like you."  Kelly has regularly expressed her dislike of both Heather and Shannon and yet when they don't warm up to her they are bullies and cowards.  Vicki didn't defend Kelly because her behavior was indefensible on several occasions.  Vicki in fact fed Kelly's paranoid ideations in hopes for taking some of the heat off of her.  The last thing Vicki wants to do is hear about Kelly's pain.  The OG of the OC just isn't wired that way.

[Natalie68]

On 10/18/2016 at 11:35 AM, dosodog said:

I think the ladies are revising history in their blogs.......

Shannon? I'm also 52.  PSA for all you ladies out there.

Chin hair? Pretty much becomes a fact of life.  And not just on your chin. Upper lip. Neck. They also can start growing hair better than your male friends.

So...To quote Lisa Rinna.....OWN IT!  Or wax it, but don't let someone belittle you for it.

This is what I was thinking.  When Kelly said it Shannon missed her opportunity to say Damn!  thought I got them all.  Kelly you too will have some fur growing out of places you didn't expect.  

[Trooper York]

No matter

How you slice it

It's still your face

Be humane

Use

Shannon-Shave

[Natalie68]

On 10/18/2016 at 2:42 PM, BigTimeBetty said:

I've been out with friends when one of us was tired, hungover, or had to get up early, therefore not wanting to drink. The rest of the group may order a drink for that one non-imbiber, to encourage or try to sway her to join in and rally. We are about the same age as this group. If the non-imbiber doesn't want to drink, no one is going to force it down her throat. The drink may sit there, or someone else may even do her shot. Free will people. I also see nothing sinister about Shannon asking the waiter to make it a double. If it were a mixed drink, maybe it could be perceived as sinister. The thing with tequila shots though is that a "double" is just bigger in volume. Plainly obvious to the naked eye, whether it is naked wasted or not. I'm not blaming Shannon or Heather for any alcohol Kelly consumed. It's called personal responsibility, Kelly.

Vicki is just gross. That is all.

The difference between Naked Wasted 1.0 and Ireland was Gretchen was wasted and unable to make decisions on her own plus the trying to push Ryan on her was gross and scary.  This one Kelly was sober and had full control of herself (as much as she can anyway).  A single shot and a double is obvious to the naked eye and EVERYONE got a double, not just Kelly.  This wasn't a margarita where the alcohol was not visible.  I have been out with people and rounds of shots were ordered despite me not wanting one.  I am not a big drinker because I get sick too easily.  So I took a sip and gave it to someone else.  If my buds had done what Vicki did (pouring it down Tamra's throat) we would have had a problem but spending their money buying drinks I won't consume is only harmful to their wallet.

That said, they should have just not included her.  She said no so the rest should have just carried on with their night.

[FamilyVan]

Quote

There is a huge culture within the RH realm about doing and saying one thing on camera and another thing off camera.  That is why the non-drinking came in the way of talking heads and post-Ireland conjecture. 

Yes exactly!  Another part of the RH culture and specifically to the OC, is that the women think that bad behavior is excused or cancelled out by pointing out someone elses' bad behavior.  Vicki, Gretchen, and now Kelly, are classic for this one.  

Reading Kelly's blog (waste of time BTW save yourself the 3 minutes of your life), she seems to think that pointing out everyone elses' transgressions against her somehow absolves her.  But her behavior is awful, and there is no excuse.  She keeps saying she was waiting for Tamra's apology to the point where I was really asking myself what exactly it was Tamra did to her?  I guess she means hitting her?  Sorry, hate to sound harsh but it wasn't on camera, we didn't see it, so it's she said/she said and it means nothing to me.  If Kelly was getting in Tamra's face and Tamra had to swat her or shove her off I do not see that as assault at all.  We really don't know what happened.  But no one else is saying anything like Wow I have seen Tamra loose her shit before but this time she went off the rails and hit Kelly... sorry Kelly but no.

[Natalie68]

On 10/18/2016 at 9:21 PM, stcroix said:

IF you were an alcoholic,though, that drink sitting in front of you and being urged on you by several women who obviously hate you (and you're trying to get to like you) would be sooooo tempting.  They knew what they were doing and had probably been told by production to get Kelly to drink to make a better show.  I've always liked Shannon and felt sorry for her when Heather was so mean to her in the first season she was on the show, when Heather ordered her out of her house so rudely, but she totally lost me with this one.  To see her and Heather (and Tamara) gang up on Kelly was obscene!  It's obvious that Kelly isn't very smart and has alcohol problems and yet they didn't try to protect her, but pushed it on her to get a reaction.  Heather may  think she's so sophisticated and all that, but she's just a wanna be who married a wanna be dr.  This show sickened and upset me.  The demon in Heather was evident on that bus ride.  Heck, I wanted a drink after watching that show!  I cant imagine how it felt to be the object off all that evil. 

I mentioned the IF she were an alcoholic thing in one or two of my posts as well.  BUT if and until Kelly comes out an an alcoholic, assumptions aside, how are they to know she is one?  I do not think this would have happened if she refrained from booze the whole show, trip, whathaveyou and had said look ladies, I cannot drink, I have a real problem.  If booze were an issue she could have hung with Meghan the whole trip and had a delightful time meeting up with the group for meals.  Heck, Tamra didn't even want to drink much until Vicki started the shot train earlier in the trip.

I truly don't know what happened.  They were either being bitchy trying to poke the honey badger or trying to include her but they did not force her to drink.  Buying her drinks, even larger than a normal shot, would not get anyone arrested.  She could SEE how much alcohol was in the shot glass, they didn't force her, they didn't take advantage of her in an altered state.  The only crime that MAY have happened was wasting a top shelf tequila.  Besides doesn't Kelly say herself she brings the Part-A?

I don't like how the trip ended up but I think the only one that REALLY treated Kelly terribly was Vicki.  The others are not her friend and confidant.  They did not blindly take Vicki's side or defend her.  That was awful Gunvelson (I often wonder if Don wants her to stop fouling his name).  And there she was not opening her word hole to defend Kelly but spilling what Kelly said in confidence.  I AM beginning to think Shannon and Heather said god dammit I am not being blamed for cutting out Kelly from the group one more time which is why they included her in the shots.  Not sure what Tamra's game was.  She is pretty awful most of the time.  

[zoeysmom]

6 minutes ago, FamilyVan said:

Yes exactly!  Another part of the RH culture and specifically to the OC, is that the women think that bad behavior is excused or cancelled out by pointing out someone elses' bad behavior.  Vicki, Gretchen, and now Kelly, are classic for this one.  

Reading Kelly's blog (waste of time BTW save yourself the 3 minutes of your life), she seems to think that pointing out everyone elses' transgressions against her somehow absolves her.  But her behavior is awful, and there is no excuse.  She keeps saying she was waiting for Tamra's apology to the point where I was really asking myself what exactly it was Tamra did to her?  I guess she means hitting her?  Sorry, hate to sound harsh but it wasn't on camera, we didn't see it, so it's she said/she said and it means nothing to me.  If Kelly was getting in Tamra's face and Tamra had to swat her or shove her off I do not see that as assault at all.  We really don't know what happened.  But no one else is saying anything like Wow I have seen Tamra loose her shit before but this time she went off the rails and hit Kelly... sorry Kelly but no.

Another thing Kelly suffers from is within this group of egocentric women, she believes they think about her first and foremost.   Their conversations and thoughts are centered around her.  She enters and expects the conversation cease and be turned over to her and her opinions.  I will say this, I don't think Kelly finds Vicki all that humorous.  Having been a student of the show she have expected any number of Vicki stunts for air time and all eyes on Vicki.  Vicki had her two paragraph discussion with Kelly about her marriage and all Vicki took away from it is Kelly should has a good marriage and she stay with it because man hunting is difficult once you divorce.  Of course Kelly's pain became all about Vicki. 

Kelly doesn't understand the concept of ambush.  She claims she was ambushed by the other women when they returned to their rooms-no she confronted Tamra and Vicki to a lesser degree in the hallway, she ran towards the danger, that is not an ambush.  The conversation should have been about why her friend Vicki told Tamra things she had allegedly said not pleading with Tamra about how she did not say them.  Again all about Kelly and that is her Achilles heel.  Kelly seemed more incensed over Shannon's directive to Heather to film the encounter.  Again this goes back to Kelly wanting off camera stuff allowing her plausible deniability. 

Kelly essentially did the same thing to Shannon when she arranged to meet her and apologize-pretty hard to apologize let alone rationalize calling someone ugly and dumb at their own party. 

[Natalie68]

On 10/19/2016 at 5:32 AM, DrivingSideways said:

I never read the Housewife blogs on Bravotv.com, but between Heather's appearance on WWHL and Shannon's weak defenses in the blog, it's pretty clear they wanted to take down Kelly.  Which would normally be fine, but it totally derails any upper hand they had in the situation.

One particular comment of Shannon that stuck out to me:  "But what is most distressing about Kelly’s blog is her statement that Tamra hit her. Tamra did no such thing. She pushed Kelly and quickly walked away. I was witness to everything, as well as the other ladies present."

Isn't pushing somebody still assault?  Anyway, we've all seen that crazed weasel look that Tamra gets in her eyes, and physical violence is definitely in her wheelhouse.  Remember when she attacked Jeana in her driveway?

Yes.  Just like grabbing/touching ANY part without permission.

I work a venue with dance parties.  About 7 years ago a guy walked up to a lady and rubbed his head on her breasts.  He is lucky he got away in the crowd because between her wanting to beat the shit out of him and me getting an officer to arrest him, he was in for a VERY bad night.  Told the hosts he is never allowed in my venue again.  They listened.

She DOES look like a weasel.  Little beady eyes.

[zoeysmom]

E!'s summary of Heather, Tamra and Shannon debunking the conspiracy claims.  http://www.eonline.com/news/802740/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county-stars-respond-to-ireland-dinner-conspiracy-allegations

[Almost 3000]

27 minutes ago, FamilyVan said:

Reading Kelly's blog (waste of time BTW save yourself the 3 minutes of your life), she seems to think that pointing out everyone elses' transgressions against her somehow absolves her.

I had the same feeling when reading Kelly's blog that I always had about Teresa Giudice's and that was it was written by someone else. We now know Teresa had a very loyal writer doing hers and I'm wondering if Kelly is paying someone to write for her.

[Ubiquitous]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 1:46 PM, WireWrap said:

Exactly! I also think they all realized at this point that any personal secret they shared with Vicki, Vicki has shared with Kelly, which would tick them all off because they know Kelly is a walking time bomb. As much as they wanted to document Kelly's behavior I believe they also wanted to document Vicki's behavior as well. That Vicki didn't come to Kelly's defense in the first pub, after Tamra pushed her or at any time since they got to Ireland makes them suspicious about Vicki and Kelly's collective behavior and that suspicion comes to reality on the bus ride to the airport when Kelly starts to spill secrets the others told Vicki in confidence IMO.

  ETA......If Kelly (and we the viewers) should be angry at anyone, it should be Vicki, who used her to go after the others as payback for last season (Brooks) and off season (saying they didn't want her back on the show on Heather's podcast). Vicki set Kelly up to do her dirty work and take the fall for doing it IMO.

Vicki did the same thing last season when Rhonda, I think, blurted out to Shannon that she should provide receipts as proof that her husband had an affair. This was the party from which we keep seeing Vicki screeching about being like "Jesus on the cross".

22 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Tamra was travelling on a very restricted diet, yet no one intervened when slabs of butter and plates of cheese were served to her at the dairy.  Should Tamra be bemoaning Meghan set her up to go to a dairy where there were fats and carbs being served perhaps jeopardizing her upcoming competition?  Has Kelly ever asked that she not be around alcohol?  No, her tag line is, "I don't throw parties, I am the party." 

Just how well was Tamra sticking to her diet? She said she was only drinking the first night but she didn't and I only recall her once instructing the waiter to not use butter or cream, etc., in her food.

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 1:30 PM, Long Spot said:

Something just dawned on me, reading Jel's post.

I know Tamra has resorted to physical threats and a few actual incidents before.

But given the body building thing...I'm wondering if she was 'roiding.  If she can make accusations against everyone, I don't mind making one myself.

Tamra's had a nasty temper for about as long as she's been on this show. I don't think it's "roid rage".

15 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

Are there rules that the HW can't be filmed to the airport?  We've seen that before haven't we? 

One of them said there was an unwritten (?) rule that they get a break from filming on the return home from their trips, mostly b/c everyone's exhausted and hung-over and nothing happens b/c they pretty sleep for the entire trip.

[zoeysmom]

13 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

I had the same feeling when reading Kelly's blog that I always had about Teresa Giudice's and that was it was written by someone else. We now know Teresa had a very loyal writer doing hers and I'm wondering if Kelly is paying someone to write for her.

What a notrocious thing to accuse Kelly of!!!! :-)  Was it the use of the word whilst in her previous blog that caused you to wonder?

[teapot]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 9:57 PM, ElDosEquis said:

The doll in "SAW" has more film credits to it's name.

Is a better actor

Is better looking.

Has better manners.

Has better makeup, skin and wardrobe. 

and that, my friends, is what we call a "READ"!!

 

well done!  BRAVO!!

[jaync]

Quote

In Shannon's blog and on Tamra's twitter they both claim that Kelly had told them tequila was an upper and that's why Shannon was ordering it and encouraging Kelly to drink- BS everyone know that alcohol is a depressant.

Heather also made the same claim on WWHL. I guess all three of them could be lying, but it seems like an innocuous thing to be dishonest about. Not to mention, it's not as if it's beyond something Kelly"Nutrocious"Dodd would believe/say.

Quote

I think she [Shannon] was in party mode and wanted everybody to enjoy themselves on their last night. 

I agree, and can see Shannon thinking that if Kelly and Tamra still didn't want the extra drinks after they arrived, then she (and Vicki) would just drink them.

Quote

I don't give a crap about Kelly, who I think is troubled and needs professional help and/ or medication. And if I know that, Tamra, Shannon and Heather know it too. So my question is, why intentionally go after a sick person?

But, you don't know that Kelly is actually sick - it's just an opinion. Maybe she's just a stupid fucking buttwad.

[zoeysmom]

10 minutes ago, Ubiquitous said:

Vicki did the same thing last season when Rhonda, I think, blurted out to Shannon that she should provide receipts as proof that her husband had an affair. This was the party from which we keep seeing Vicki screeching about being like "Jesus on the cross".

Just how well was Tamra sticking to her diet? She said she was only drinking the first night but she didn't and I only recall her once instructing the waiter to not use butter or cream, etc., in her food.

Tamra's had a nasty temper for about as long as she's been on this show. I don't think it's "roid rage".

One of them said there was an unwritten (?) rule that they get a break from filming on the return home from their trips, mostly b/c everyone's exhausted and hung-over and nothing happens b/c they pretty sleep for the entire trip.

Tamra is a lot if unpleasant things but I think she has a lot of willpower (won't power) in the food department.  Driven primarily by her obsessive behavior regarding her body.

Tamra and Shannon also turned the shots of Bailey's poured for them.  A quote for Kelly's blog, "Before I leave the topic of the Bailey barbeque, would it really have hurt Tamra and Shannon to take a sip of Bailey's liqueur out of respect for them histing us?  It is not as if they weren't drinking."

[tvfanatic13]

Not gonna lie. I absolutely cannot wait for the reunion.

[slitz]

7 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Not gonna lie. I absolutely cannot wait for the reunion.

Seriously.  I have a feeling this is going to be one for the record books.  And I stand by my earlier claim this season that the seating arrangement will be Meghan, Kelly,  and Vicki on one couch, Andy in the middle and then Shannon, Tamra and Heather on the other couch.  Maybe Tamra and then Shannon, but those three are definitely on a couch together.  

[zoeysmom]

14 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Not gonna lie. I absolutely cannot wait for the reunion.

They are filming it as we speak.

[tvfanatic13]

^^ Can someone in the OC check the obits tomorrow??

[itsadryheat]

Can't say it enuf, RHO pick a city, is the bar scene in Star Wars.

Watching adult self-absorbed, egotistic, narcissistic women, who are clearly "not acting", show who they are, is like being Jane Goodall watching the apes.

I'm baffled, How do they go back to real life after exposing their true personalities? I'd be wearing a burka in an undisclosed location, living like Rob Kardashian. Wish they'd shut it with the mom crap-clearly that is not a priority. 

OMG these chicks. So grateful I don't know them.

Edited October 20, 2016 by itsadryheat

[ghoulina]

21 hours ago, WireWrap said:

It was "mopey/sullen Kelly" we all saw go off on the bus back to the airport though, not "drunk, incensed Kelly" !. LOL

MMV, but to me - that was up-all-night, tired Kelly, who had been fucked with all night. She tried going to bed. Tamra sent her that text, which was really infantile and totally uncalled for. We don't officially know what happened next, but I believe the girls then went up there to try and goad her some more. I don't look at Kelly as a perpetual Victim. She's done tons of nasty shit in her life. But in this case, I do think the girls were coming hard for her and that's why she snapped. She always takes it too far, and there's no excuse for the things she says. But if they had just left her ENTIRELY alone, I don't know that all this last night drama would have happened. 

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Tamra and Shannon also turned the shots of Bailey's poured for them. 

At least the Bailey's guys didn't follow them around the barn all night trying to make them drink it. 

[WireWrap]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

MMV, but to me - that was up-all-night, tired Kelly, who had been fucked with all night. She tried going to bed. Tamra sent her that text, which was really infantile and totally uncalled for. We don't officially know what happened next, but I believe the girls then went up there to try and goad her some more. I don't look at Kelly as a perpetual Victim. She's done tons of nasty shit in her life. But in this case, I do think the girls were coming hard for her and that's why she snapped. She always takes it too far, and there's no excuse for the things she says. But if they had just left her ENTIRELY alone, I don't know that all this last night drama would have happened. 

She had been mopey/sullen since the fight with Tamra and kept saying the others were "excluding" her time and time again. After that dinner, all of them went to their rooms and about 30 minutes later, Kelly and Vicki, went to Tamra's room to try and get her to go out drinking, she refused then they tried to get Shannon to go and she refused as well, so she wasn't all that tired, at least no more than the others. Yes, it was nasty/juvenile of Tamra to sent that text/photo to Kelly about Vicki in the bar with them spilling that Kelly had been talking smack about Tamra for a while but Kelly took it upon herself to confront them as they got off the elevator. By the time they all got on the bus, Kelly and Meghan were the only 2 sober HWs there and it was Kelly that decided to start crap, not the others. This is her MO, start with the nasty name calling then cry victim when her target(s) fight back.

 

2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

At least the Bailey's guys didn't follow them around the barn all night trying to make them drink it. 

Nor did anyone follow Kelly around trying to get her to drink on camera at all, any time, any place. LOL

[zulualpha]

2 hours ago, Almost 3000 said:

I had the same feeling when reading Kelly's blog that I always had about Teresa Giudice's and that was it was written by someone else. We now know Teresa had a very loyal writer doing hers and I'm wondering if Kelly is paying someone to write for her.

That would explain why I found it to be well written and convincing. Kelly laid out an orderly case for herself and I found myself agreeing with just about everything she said.  Especially this:

Quote

Before I leave the topic of the Baileys barbeque, would it really have hurt Tamra and Shannon to take a sip of Baileys liqueur out of respect for them hosting us? It’s not as though they weren’t drinking.

which I guess I have a different take on than zoeysmom.  To me, turning their nose up at those drinks, not even taking a pretend sip was unbelievably rude of Shannon and Tamra.   That was the farm's signature product, their reason for being and the Bailey's should have been received with cries of delight even if the drinks weren't necessarily wanted.

[ghoulina]

30 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

She had been mopey/sullen since the fight with Tamra and kept saying the others were "excluding" her time and time again. After that dinner, all of them went to their rooms and about 30 minutes later, Kelly and Vicki, went to Tamra's room to try and get her to go out drinking, she refused then they tried to get Shannon to go and she refused as well, so she wasn't all that tired, at least no more than the others.

I only remember it being said that they tried to get Tamra to go out. From what was said, I took it as Vicki was trying to get just the three of them to go out so she could broker some kind of peace between Tamra and Kelly. From what I remember, Tamra wasn't biting. But she later went down with Heather and Shannon - they then called Vicki to come down, but leave Kelly. Which I think was appropriate. But I don't think Kelly was raring for a party night, more of letting Vicki convince her that a make-up session. Once that was off the table, I think she just wanted to go to bed. 

[918lux]

2 hours ago, jaync said:

Heather also made the same claim on WWHL. I guess all three of them could be lying, but it seems like an innocuous thing to be dishonest about. Not to mention, it's not as if it's beyond something Kelly"Nutrocious"Dodd would believe/say.

Yes- but my point there was that they all seem to be using "Kelly told us it was an upper!" as an excuse- they were ordering tequila to "stay up" and get everyone more in the mood...but I just don't buy that they honestly believed that tequila shot = 5 hour energy shots.

[WireWrap]

17 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I only remember it being said that they tried to get Tamra to go out. From what was said, I took it as Vicki was trying to get just the three of them to go out so she could broker some kind of peace between Tamra and Kelly. From what I remember, Tamra wasn't biting. But she later went down with Heather and Shannon - they then called Vicki to come down, but leave Kelly. Which I think was appropriate. But I don't think Kelly was raring for a party night, more of letting Vicki convince her that a make-up session. Once that was off the table, I think she just wanted to go to bed. 

From Shannon's blog...."Kelly left the table after dinner and about 30 minutes later came to my door with Vicki. Kelly was dressed to the nines. Kelly, the gal that said she was too tired to drink, was ready to go out and have a good time. Interesting."....And I believe her, which means that Kelly/Vicki asked her to go out as well. LOL Oh, and note that Shannon says Kelly "was dressed to the nines"! Also, both Tamra and Shannon say that Kelly/Vicki knocked on their doors about 30 minutes after the dinner broke up, not hours later and we don't know how long they were in the bar before Tamra sent the text. I think Kelly was relaxing but I doubt she was sleeping.

To be honest, if only Tamra were making these claims, I would have doubts, but Shannon hasn't shown herself to be a liar and until she does......... I am willing to give her the benefit of doubt.

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, slitz said:

Seriously.  I have a feeling this is going to be one for the record books.  And I stand by my earlier claim this season that the seating arrangement will be Meghan, Kelly,  and Vicki on one couch, Andy in the middle and then Shannon, Tamra and Heather on the other couch.  Maybe Tamra and then Shannon, but those three are definitely on a couch together.  

Taking to First Look

[MatildaMoody]

For me, if Super Sleuth Meghan is questioning the shot pushing on Kelly, then there is definitely something there. I also think that Meghan realized something was definitely happening and she wanted no part of it. Either Heather, Tamra, and Shannon (or some formation of the three) told her that there was something happening or she figured it out and decided she wanted no part in any of the nastiness. And no matter how you spin it, Tamra, Heather and Shannon were exhibiting some very mean and sketchy behavior. 

[Long Spot]

25 minutes ago, 918lux said:

Yes- but my point there was that they all seem to be using "Kelly told us it was an upper!" as an excuse- they were ordering tequila to "stay up" and get everyone more in the mood...but I just don't buy that they honestly believed that tequila shot = 5 hour energy shots.

Because truly...what else could they have had to stay awake...

Lemme think about this...

Having been to Ireland quite a few times, perhaps...oh I don't know...A FECKING IRISH COFFEE maybe?

Nah.  Bet Powerscourt didn't have those on offer.  *GIANT EYE ROLL* 

[slitz]

3 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

For me, if Super Sleuth Meghan is questioning the shot pushing on Kelly, then there is definitely something there. I also think that Meghan realized something was definitely happening and she wanted no part of it. Either Heather, Tamra, and Shannon (or some formation of the three) told her that there was something happening or she figured it out and decided she wanted no part in any of the nastiness. And no matter how you spin it, Tamra, Heather and Shannon were exhibiting some very mean and sketchy behavior. 

It pains me to say this, but I agree.  I have gone round and round this episode, have read all the posts here both for and against Heather, Shannon and Gramballs and I've come to the conclusion that, while I don't think it was necessarily in the same vein as Naked Wasted 1.0, those three definitely had something up their sleeves.  That Gramballs would does not surprise me in the least.  Shannon and Heather though?  I am really saddened to see this behavior from them.  

[zoeysmom]

34 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

That would explain why I found it to be well written and convincing. Kelly laid out an orderly case for herself and I found myself agreeing with just about everything she said.  Especially this:

which I guess I have a different take on than zoeysmom.  To me, turning their nose up at those drinks, not even taking a pretend sip was unbelievably rude of Shannon and Tamra.   That was the farm's signature product, their reason for being and the Bailey's should have been received with cries of delight even if the drinks weren't necessarily wanted.

The problem with Kelly's blog besides leaving certain facts out, is it is fraught with conjecture about what others are thinking, what others may be feeling, what others are plotting, what others believe will happen if Kelly drinks, the level of Christianity Tamra follows (I am pretty certain Christians aren't suppose to judge other Christians r anyone), how Tamra feels about losing her temper with Kelly.  Kelly went into the dinner angry that Tamra had not apologized, the others targets of Kelly dissatisfaction apparently did not think Tamra was out of line so why would they expect Kelly to want an apology? So if she is laying out a case for herself she fails miserably to stay within the guidelines of basic case making.  You state your case from what you saw, said and did, What you saw another do, what you heard another say.  Comments like palpable tension at Bailey's, being ignored, Kelly is so inner directed she thinks everyone sits around wondering and surmising what is going through her brain.  The ladies had about five or six hours to kill before taking a rather long flight back home.  They had to pack and it was probably up to them individually to decide if they wanted to nap or stay up.  Where Kelly was correct is no one really wanted to be around her.  She claimed she was being excluded, Shannon invited her to join and she wanted to wait it out to see if she would be ambushed-the others could not be bothered with her self-absorption. 

Kelly totally left out that she invited Shannon out-so much for Vicki's BS story about trying to have some sort of peace summit.  What Kelly did to herself was hold on so tight to her paranoia she managed to have a bad time-it was self-inflicted.  Same with the hallway she had to have known Tamra was upset she ran toward the fire not away.  A reasonable person would surmise, if Vicki was telling Tamra I talked about her then she most likely has told Shannon and Heather the numerous things I have said about them.

As to not drinking the Bailey's, there was nothing rude about not taking a sip.  I hate Bailey's I would not have been able to fake it. I host a lot of wine tasting and I think nothing of someone not trying a variety or any of the wine at all. 

There was a little irony in that Kelly was unable to see the humor in the only Jewess born without the humor gene playing along with Vicki's stunt of showing her breasts at the dinner table.  Not only do these women not get Kelly's humor she doesn't get theirs.  (I  did think it was in poor taste for Vicki to partially disrobe at the table but she seemed to be having a great time.)

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

For me, if Super Sleuth Meghan is questioning the shot pushing on Kelly, then there is definitely something there. I also think that Meghan realized something was definitely happening and she wanted no part of it. Either Heather, Tamra, and Shannon (or some formation of the three) told her that there was something happening or she figured it out and decided she wanted no part in any of the nastiness. And no matter how you spin it, Tamra, Heather and Shannon were exhibiting some very mean and sketchy behavior. 

This is from Meghan's twitter....... "Meghan King Edmonds ‏@MeghanKEdmonds 22h22 hours ago

@Wildchildwendy @ShannonBeador I don't think she had ill intent but if I was Kelly I would see it differently bc Kelly is Kelly "

So Meghan believes that it was not a set up and I have to wonder if this is Meghan's way of saying that Kelly is a bit paranoid. LOL

[MatildaMoody]

14 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

This is from Meghan's twitter....... "Meghan King Edmonds ‏@MeghanKEdmonds 22h22 hours ago

@Wildchildwendy @ShannonBeador I don't think she had ill intent but if I was Kelly I would see it differently bc Kelly is Kelly "

So Meghan believes that it was not a set up and I have to wonder if this is Meghan's way of saying that Kelly is a bit paranoid. LOL

From Meghan's blog:

Quote

It was strange to see Shannon asking for a double for Kelly. I don't understand why she wanted to get her drunk? Since Kelly has a history of behaving badly when she's drunk, I believe that she had every reason to feel set up by Shannon. I don’t know if that was the case, but that whole meal felt weird and a little forced.

So her spidey sense was definitely tingling about the entire thing. 

[918lux]

14 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

As to not drinking the Bailey's, there was nothing rude about not taking a sip.  I hate Bailey's I would not have been able to fake it. I host a lot of wine tasting and I think nothing of someone not trying a variety or any of the wine at all.

I disagree, I thought not at least taking a sip was really rude.  Especially since the event was comped and filmed, the polite thing to do is to take at least a sip and comment about how good it was.

[motorcitymom65]

1 minute ago, 918lux said:

I disagree, I thought not at least taking a sip was really rude.  Especially since the event was comped and filmed, the polite thing to do is to take at least a sip and comment about how good it was.

Completely agree. It was beyond rude. Especially for Shannon to say, on camera, that drinking cream wasn't something she found appealing.  Rude behavior towards such nice hosts for sure, since this is their business. At the very least, you pretend to drink it. Of course I am bitter because I love Bailey's and the very idea that they were given such an opportunity to be right where it is being manufactured, yet didn't partake, irritates me. 

[Natalie68]

13 minutes ago, 918lux said:

I disagree, I thought not at least taking a sip was really rude.  Especially since the event was comped and filmed, the polite thing to do is to take at least a sip and comment about how good it was.

I am going to look at it this way.  I hate mayonnaise in a 'I will hurl if I taste this by itself or if it is in something' type of hate (was I tortured with mayo as a child?  no idea but its that strong of a hate).  It isn't rude to not taste something you do not like.  It is rude to MAKE someone taste something they have politely declined.  No fake horking noises, no long stories, just a no thank you.  They had participated in the milking of the cows, looked at everything and were going to eat.  I don't see the harm.  

[jaync]

Quote

...but I just don't buy that they honestly believed that tequila shot = 5 hour energy shots.

Me, neither, but I can see them going along with the notion to amuse Kelly. I imagine it wouldn't have gone down well if they told Kelly she was full of shit, and then proceeded to order another kind of booze.

Quote

"It was strange to see Shannon asking for a double for Kelly."

Shannon didn't do that, though..she asked that all the drinks be doubles.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Kelly is responsible for her own well-being, and nobody made her do anything against her will.

[zulualpha]

20 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

 It isn't rude to not taste something you do not like.

I'd say lets google and see what Emily Post says but, nah.  I'm just going by how I was raised so manners are probably different for different families.  Agree to dis and all  that.  I'll never forget going to dinner at a friend's home with my father where fish was being served as the only entree.  Now, I have never in my whole life seen my dad eat any kind of seafood ever yet he didn't say a word and cleaned his plate.  He was so convincing the hosts tried to press more fish on him lol.  I'm sure he was just trying to wolf it down as fast as possible past his taste buds so his gag reflex wouldn't kick in. 

[Natalie68]

20 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

I'd say lets google and see what Emily Post says but, nah.  I'm just going by how I was raised so manners are probably different for different families.  Agree to dis and all  that.  I'll never forget going to dinner at a friend's home with my father where fish was being served as the only entree.  Now, I have never in my whole life seen my dad eat any kind of seafood ever yet he didn't say a word and cleaned his plate.  He was so convincing the hosts tried to press more fish on him lol.  I'm sure he was just trying to wolf it down as fast as possible past his taste buds so his gag reflex wouldn't kick in. 

Not arguing with YOU, just putting this out there.  It may be listed as good manners to taste things you KNOW you are not going to like but I think it is bad manners to harass someone to try something they have politely declined (my parents were old school as were my grands so I was raised with manners even though I disagree with Post about this).  I had to do that as a child but as an adult, I have no problem politely declining.  Besides, what if there is a reason they didn't such as lactose intolerance?  As a small child my mother made me take a bite of something that I didn't want (abalone, cannot eat shell fish yet they didn't know that then).  I ended up vomiting all over the dinner table and then NO ONE got it.  As long as you don't disparage what they are offering I don't see an issue.  

I can see if you were at someone's house and they made you a meal then its best to take a bite because presumably they know you, they know what you like, and you most likely care for them.  I don't see 2 OC HWs declining to take a sip of cream from Baileys hurting their biz or feelings.  I wouldn't take a sip of cream either.  It makes my stomach hurt to think about it.  I try to move through life not offending anyone and like a lot of people there are foods that make me feel ill.  It gets uncomfortable having to go into the 'whys' of not taking a taste and its rude of people to make you explain it.

 

I looked it up on Emily Post regarding an invitation to a party and how to handle dietary issues:

 When you get to the dinner party, you can either decline any offending foods-if they’re being served family style-or eat around them on your plate. Afraid you’ll starve? Then have a snack before you go.

Are links ok?  If so I can add later

Edited October 20, 2016 by Natalie68
found what Post said

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, MatildaMoody said:

From Meghan's blog:

So her spidey sense was definitely tingling about the entire thing. 

The blogs must comply with the chosen storyline or they are edited to fit it, that does not apply to their tweets especially since Meghan has chosen, according to the rumors, to not return next year. I take her/their tweets more seriously and she told Lizzie and Gretchen to not tag her in tweets that disparage Shannon when they were talking smack about her. "Meghan King Edmonds ‏@MeghanKEdmonds 18h18 hours ago

@GretchenRossi @LizzieRovsek Shannon is my friend, ladies. If u talk smack ab her pls don't tag me."

[motorcitymom65]

3 hours ago, slitz said:

It pains me to say this, but I agree.  I have gone round and round this episode, have read all the posts here both for and against Heather, Shannon and Gramballs and I've come to the conclusion that, while I don't think it was necessarily in the same vein as Naked Wasted 1.0, those three definitely had something up their sleeves.  That Gramballs would does not surprise me in the least.  Shannon and Heather though?  I am really saddened to see this behavior from them.  

Come and sit by me. More than anything, I am just disappointed. Although I'm not particularly shocked by Shannon. I've always been skeptical of her, especially after she revealed to Heather - on camera - that Tamra had told her Heather had an eating disorder. She said that just to try and turn Heather against Tamra when Heather was defending her. The tears in Heather's eyes looked real (I don't believe Heather is that good of an actress). There was no reason to share that with the world and it was spiteful beyond belief. 

I don't want to believe they were trying to set Kelly up, because I like the 3 of them better than I do Kelly. I think Kelly is a horrible human being and have since before this season ever premiered,  based on the TMZ footage. Nothing she has done on the show has altered that perception, although I admit there is nothing that she could do that would alter my feelings, since I hate a racist above all else. The thing is, while it is hard to admit that they did this nasty thing, I can still like them for the most part, just as I do friends and family that have done or said things I don't agree with at one time or another. They don't have to be perfect, and in this situation I don't think they were. I would love to find a way to say it was something other than what it was, but I think it was just what it appeared to be. Honestly, I would just love for one of them to say "we don't like her, don't trust her, think she is a horrible person, and wanted to make sure the world knew all about her".  That would be fine with me. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by motorcitymom65

[WireWrap]

33 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Come and sit by me. More than anything, I am just disappointed. Although I'm not particularly shocked by Shannon. I've always been skeptical of her, especially after she revealed to Heather - on camera - that Tamra had told her Heather had an eating disorder. She said that just to try and turn Heather against Tamra when Heather was defending her. The tears in Heather's eyes looked real (I don't believe Heather is that good of an actress). There was no reason to share that with the world and it was spiteful beyond belief. 

I don't want to believe they were trying to set Kelly up, because I like the 3 of them better than I do Kelly. I think Kelly is a horrible human being and have since before this season ever premiered,  based on the TMZ footage. Nothing she has done on the show has altered that perception, although I admit there is nothing that she could do that would alter my feelings, since I hate a racist above all else. The thing is, while it is hard to admit that they did this nasty thing, I can still like them for the most part, just as I do friends and family that have done or said things I don't agree with at one time or another. They don't have to be perfect, and in this situation I don't think they were. I would love to find a way to say it was something other than what it was, but I think it was just what it appeared to be. Honestly, I would just love for one of them to say "we don't like her, don't trust her, think she is a horrible person, and wanted to make sure the world knew all about her".  That would be fine with me. 

If they said that, I would believe them and although disappointed, I would still support them over Kelly as well.

[ElDosEquis]

2 hours ago, zulualpha said:

I'd say lets google and see what Emily Post says but, nah.  I'm just going by how I was raised so manners are probably different for different families.  Agree to dis and all  that.  I'll never forget going to dinner at a friend's home with my father where fish was being served as the only entree.  Now, I have never in my whole life seen my dad eat any kind of seafood ever yet he didn't say a word and cleaned his plate.  He was so convincing the hosts tried to press more fish on him lol.  I'm sure he was just trying to wolf it down as fast as possible past his taste buds so his gag reflex wouldn't kick in. 

THAT is the mark of a true gentleman.

It's harder than it looks and when they hit you with the old, "Oh, you must have been hungry, Would you like more?" You really need to be diplomatic and decline the offer.

And I bet Pops never said one word about that meal?

Funny to think that there was a time when your private thoughts, comments and outrage were private?

[straightshooter]

58 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Come and sit by me. More than anything, I am just disappointed. Although I'm not particularly shocked by Shannon. I've always been skeptical of her, especially after she revealed to Heather - on camera - that Tamra had told her Heather had an eating disorder. She said that just to try and turn Heather against Tamra when Heather was defending her. The tears in Heather's eyes looked real (I don't believe Heather is that good of an actress). There was no reason to share that with the world and it was spiteful beyond belief. 

I don't want to believe they were trying to set Kelly up, because I like the 3 of them better than I do Kelly. I think Kelly is a horrible human being and have since before this season ever premiered,  based on the TMZ footage. Nothing she has done on the show has altered that perception, although I admit there is nothing that she could do that would alter my feelings, since I hate a racist above all else. The thing is, while it is hard to admit that they did this nasty thing, I can still like them for the most part, just as I do friends and family that have done or said things I don't agree with at one time or another. They don't have to be perfect, and in this situation I don't think they were. I would love to find a way to say it was something other than what it was, but I think it was just what it appeared to be. Honestly, I would just love for one of them to say "we don't like her, don't trust her, think she is a horrible person, and wanted to make sure the world knew all about her".  That would be fine with me. 

You took the words right outta my mouth, MCM - and it's not the first time. :)

[JAYJAY1979]

Krlly should have watched hiw meghan handled tamra a little earlier in the season.  When meghan apoligized to tamra...tamra wasnt so quick to forgive her, but then meghan boight up being told by tamra to go to hell and asked if she thought that was right to do....tamra realized meghan was right and kind of apoligized..taking the wind out of her sail.

What kelly needed to do after she said she was sorry...was also bring up that she was hurt by how tamra confronted her..with pushing her, etc....tamra would have had to admit she was wrong.

I do recall shannon saying to kelly that she was glad kelly apoligized...but still disappointed shannon went along with tamra/heather.

[Trooper York]

Can we just not support anybody? There is not a sympathetic character in the whole motley crew. Who can you root for in this group?  Vicki who is the original gangster in the family van lying about cancer? Tamara the shit stirrer who leads the charge against whoever is the weakest? Heather the snob and poseur who is a phony as a three dollar bill? Shannon who is ten pounds of batshit crazy in a five pound recycled bag? Meghan the detective giraffe who is the current wife of a washed up ball player who changes wives more than he changes his jock? Dirty Kelly? 

I am had pressed to find one redeeming quality among the whole of them. It is vastly unpleasant. I think I might give up on this series the way I did on Atlanta and Jersey. It is past the expiration date and is a bucket of spoiled Bailey's. 

[mbaywife123]

1 hour ago, Trooper York said:

Can we just not support anybody? There is not a sympathetic character in the whole motley crew. Who can you root for in this group?  Vicki who is the original gangster in the family van lying about cancer? Tamara the shit stirrer who leads the charge against whoever is the weakest? Heather the snob and poseur who is a phony as a three dollar bill? Shannon who is ten pounds of batshit crazy in a five pound recycled bag? Meghan the detective giraffe who is the current wife of a washed up ball player who changes wives more than he changes his jock? Dirty Kelly? 

I am had pressed to find one redeeming quality among the whole of them. It is vastly unpleasant. I think I might give up on this series the way I did on Atlanta and Jersey. It is past the expiration date and is a bucket of spoiled Bailey's. 

Right there with you Trooper.

I also gave up on Atlanta and Jersey long ago, along with NYC this season, looks like OC will be next with BH following close behind, these shows have run their course.

Let's all ride off into the sunset together.

[breezy424]

OK.  Let's go back to the Bailey's thing.  The farm produced the 'cream' for Bailey's.  They do not produce Bailey's Irish Cream.  The ladies were given a taste of the cream that is used in Bailey's Irish Cream.  I've said this before a number of pages back, unless you have some sort of dairy allergy, the least that all of the women could do was take a taste of the 'cream'.  Crap.  If you can go out and consume alcohol and its calories, you can have a taste of cream in respect for your hosts.  On another note, as I've stated before, I'd have no problem.  The whole 'Bailey's' situation was very telling about some of these women.

In the situation with Kelly making the remark about Tamra's daughter, Kelly should have apologized right away as soon as Tamra confronted her.  It crossed a line.  Yet....Kelly apparently went on with the subject in the bus/limo, whatever.  Kelly then expects Tamra to forgive her 'heartfelt' apology later.  No excuses for that and I can't state enough that I can't stand Tamra.  But that comment was, IMO, very comparable to Kelly sucker punching Tamra in the face.  Kelly and Tamra's confrontation in the pub did not warrant Kelly's response.  Kelly initiated all of this with the flick and then her baiting of Tamra when she was going to the ladies room.  Yeah, Tamra has 'problems' but Kelly has much bigger problems with control and anger.  And it all doesn't have to do with alcohol.  

[motorcitymom65]

6 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Krlly should have watched hiw meghan handled tamra a little earlier in the season.  When meghan apoligized to tamra...tamra wasnt so quick to forgive her, but then meghan boight up being told by tamra to go to hell and asked if she thought that was right to do....tamra realized meghan was right and kind of apoligized..taking the wind out of her sail.

What kelly needed to do after she said she was sorry...was also bring up that she was hurt by how tamra confronted her..with pushing her, etc....tamra would have had to admit she was wrong.

I do recall shannon saying to kelly that she was glad kelly apoligized...but still disappointed shannon went along with tamra/heather.

I think that what Kelly needed to do was to apologize to Tamra off camera. Tamra doesn't want to talk about her daughter on camera. Despite the criticism that Tamra has made it her storyline, she was going through this custody deal with her for 2 years, and she never talked about it on the show. The stuff was never addressed in any real manner until Vicki said something nasty last year. Something about being surprised to see Tamra act like she was if she didn't want to lose custody of her other kids. That infuriated Tamra, and was the reason she addressed it at the reuinon last season. That was the first we had heard Tamra really talk about what was going on with Sidney. This year she mentioned it once, but I understand Tamra wanting to control the narrative of all of this. She has to be careful about how it is talked about. When Kelly said what she did, she took any control that Tamra has about the situation out of her hands and made it part of the story in a way that Tamra didn't like. 

Others have said that Tamra looked like the devil when Kelly was apologizing. I thought she looked terrified and desperate. She looked like she was shaking and trying to control herself. I think she was afraid of what Kelly might say in her apology. Something like "you are a great mother and I recognize that what is going on with your daughter has a lot to do with her father and how he feels about you". She might have said something about how wrong Sidney was to not speak to her mother. Even in saying something sympathetic, she  could have said something that might have made things worse with Sidney. It was telling when Kelly went over to her later and tried to hug her and again apologize. Tamra's very strained words and haunted eyes, as she said "I don't want to talk about this right now" said it all to me. She did not want to further any discussion about Sidney on camera. Kelly should have done this all of camera with Tamra.