S11.E16: Bringing Up Old Ghosts

[Long Spot]

Something just dawned on me, reading Jel's post.

I know Tamra has resorted to physical threats and a few actual incidents before.

But given the body building thing...I'm wondering if she was 'roiding.  If she can make accusations against everyone, I don't mind making one myself.

A week ago I couldn't stand Kelly.  And I'm pissed that I'm having to feel badly for her today.

[WireWrap]

29 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think the reason they are taking Tamra's side is pretty evident.  They love and care about Tamra, and don't like Kelly at all. And even completely putting aside their defending and rallying around their friend, both Shannon and Heather have their own valid reasons for not liking Kelly. 

The much bigger question is why Vicki isn't standing up for Kelly at all. Shannon, Tamra and Heather all leveled some very serious charges against Vicki last season (well deserved charges, IMO). Kelly has been very loyal to Vicki, to the point of ridiculousness. Yet Vicki is so desperate to be with the cool girls, that she just throws Kelly to the side. According to Tamra in her blog, it was Vicki who came down into the bar that night and started revealing private conversations that Kelly had told her about Tamra. I completely get Shannon, Tamra and Heather rallying around each other. They love each other and are going to be supportive. Vicki is no friend to anyone. 

Exactly! I also think they all realized at this point that any personal secret they shared with Vicki, Vicki has shared with Kelly, which would tick them all off because they know Kelly is a walking time bomb. As much as they wanted to document Kelly's behavior I believe they also wanted to document Vicki's behavior as well. That Vicki didn't come to Kelly's defense in the first pub, after Tamra pushed her or at any time since they got to Ireland makes them suspicious about Vicki and Kelly's collective behavior and that suspicion comes to reality on the bus ride to the airport when Kelly starts to spill secrets the others told Vicki in confidence IMO.

  ETA......If Kelly (and we the viewers) should be angry at anyone, it should be Vicki, who used her to go after the others as payback for last season (Brooks) and off season (saying they didn't want her back on the show on Heather's podcast). Vicki set Kelly up to do her dirty work and take the fall for doing it IMO.

Edited October 19, 2016 by WireWrap

[zoeysmom]

I went and reviewed Kelly's blogs she never mentions alcohol is the catalyst for her meltdowns, or anger management issues.  I take people as they present themselves.  To say proffering Kelly unsolicited drinks was an attempt at a set up for more bad behavior is reaching.  I am going to say Kelly is calculating enough to realize in all likelihood  their will be a custody battle in her future.  Hence the reason she sets her husband up as a drunk and excuses her ongoing, well documented, anger management issue and treatment as a work in progress.  Here is an unsolicited tip for Kelly, anger management are tools taught to help one in all conflicts of life.  They really don't teach you it is okay to go scorched earth in certain areas of your life. 

Heather has said prior to the last supper, Kelly had said she wanted to go out and on a Hooley Kickin' since she had missed the previous one (one she intentionally and deliberately abstained from in spite of Meghan repeatedly suggesting she go).  So this abstinence from alcohol was perhaps more for the cameras than anything.  Evidence of Kelly's intent to go out was presented by Vicki when she and Kelly knocked on Tamra's door they had planned to go out and later evidenced by the fact Kelly and Vicki were intentionally excluding Shannon and Heather.  So imbibing wasn't issue it was more of a when and with who the drinking would happen.  None of the women complained about the Shannon ordering drinks until after.  Which to me has diverted attention from the true instigators in this situation.

What I saw was Vicki intentionally trying to split the herd.  She admitted her trying to mend and maintain friendships were far more important than Kelly's feeling or defense of her actions.  Once ingratiated into the herd Vicki tried to split up she found it prudent to dump on Kelly.  For reasons only known to Tamra she believed just desserts would be to show Kelly not only was she excluded form the last Hooley Kickin', her trusted friend Vicki had dumped on her. 

The villains should have been Tamra and Vicki, Shannon and Heather filming (it is a TV show) was actually in Kelly's favor.  She wasn't ambushed she ran to the conflict.  I do believe Kelly needs to get a new set of defenses, the liar liar, I didn't say that, just aren't working.  Where lines get crossed and where Kelly fails is her immediate issue should have been with coward Vicki-not Tamra.  She should have pursued Vicki, and yes it would have been off camera and demanded to know why she would do such a thing.  Apologies, denials to Tamra should have been secondary. 

I do believe first and foremost Kelly was hurt at being excluded and flat out rejected by Tamra, since this was an after hours event, Kelly didn't have the power of production behind her to be forcefully included.  I think Kelly was terribly hurt that she had gone too far and no one cared enough to ask her at dinner why she was so sullen.  She had simply used up all her "poor Kelly is not happy, she is hurt" cards for the season. 

So my issue is focus on who caused the hallway kerfuffle.  Vicki for bringing it and Tamra for texting a message to Kelly that was designed to first off hurt her for being excluded and secondly for putting her on the defensive about prior statments.  Not everyone is wrong all the time and having more than one person disapprove of your behavior is not a gang up anymore than having more than one person defend you.

Kelly's behavior on the bus-unconscionable.  Silence is golden.  Not necessarily a good reality TV trait but there are times it just works. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by zoeysmom

[zoeysmom]

3 hours ago, Sai said:

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/real-housewives-of-orange-county-film-scenes-across-dublin-and-wicklow-and-attempt-to-track-irish-ancestry-34738496.html

Ok, this article was published May 23,  2016, so this after the TMZ incident.  Hmmm......makes you wonder, right?

The were in Ireland on May 10th, according to the photos within the article, Heather's book launch party was April 30th. 

[FamilyVan]

Quote

According to Tamra in her blog, it was Vicki who came down into the bar that night and started revealing private conversations that Kelly had told her about Tamra. I completely get Shannon, Tamra and Heather rallying around each other. They love each other and are going to be supportive. Vicki is no friend to anyone

Vicki is just a bad person.  I won't even say bad friend, just bad person.  All the beginning of the season when no one else would film with her, Kelly was there going to lunch alone with Vicki and going to her birthday trip in Palm Springs.  I always suspected that Vicki would drop Kelly like a hot potato if the other ladies so much as gave her the time of day, and that is exactly what happened.  She is a shit.  Acts "neutral", literally looks the other way when Kelly is being attacked, walks out of the room, etc.  And then to take it even further, goes to Tamra and spills the beans about all Kelly has been saying.  Then when they were upstairs in the hallway when thing went south Vicki is like don't look at me, don't involve me - whaa?  I don't like Kelly at all, and I think she is a walking disaster, but I hope everyone sees the shitty person Vicki is.  SHI-TEEEEEEEE

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

17 hours ago, zulualpha said:

 

I love the way they had blankets on the chairs when they were eating outside or in the barn in case someone got cold.  So civilized.

The chair shawls were the BEST. Right up there with how we all agree on Bethenny's red dress/coat in the scene breaking up w/Jill Z.

2 hours ago, Almost 3000 said:

Scary Ireland just doesn't rival Scary Island.

I have a toothache and Scary Ireland vs. Scary Island just gave me my will to live! BRILLIANT!

What a mess. That last supper with them all dressed in black except Kelly, Tamra's "funeral" comment, and Meghan "not feeling well", all add up to a cast protest that they were all done with Kelly.  All they were missing were black armbands, and oh in Vicki's case, an exit plan w/Kelly. Vicki is so vile and desperate. 

Kelly is unbalanced and out of her league here. Shannon and Heather, who I loved prior to this episode shouldn't have stooped to this base of a level. I feel like the ladies all were having Tamra's back and telling production they'd had enough in the only way they could. 

[HumblePi]

3 hours ago, Bebecat said:

Some peopl all allergic to alcohol and don't know it. It makes them act crazy, not just drunk. John Lennon was supposedly such a person. Maybe this witch Kelly is one too.

I think that an alcohol allergy presents symptoms similar to an allergy to any substance. She may have an intolerance for alcohol and her body doesn't process it as it should. But if she had a genuine allergy she'd have symptoms like nasal stuffiness, headache, rapid pulse and even vomiting. The exacerbation of her personality may be enhanced through alcohol.

I'm editing to add that Kelly stated in the first episode that Michael was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'm wondering if Kelly doesn't have her own mental disorder that's perhaps has even been diagnosed if she and Michael sought mental health counseling. I would categorize her as having Histrionic Personality Disorder. (isn't it fun to play armchair psychiatrist?)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/histrionic-personality-disorder

Edited October 19, 2016 by HumblePi

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

The chair shawls were the BEST. Right up there with how we all agree on Bethenny's red dress/coat in the scene breaking up w/Jill Z.

I have a toothache and Scary Ireland vs. Scary Island just gave me my will to live! BRILLIANT!

What a mess. That last supper with them all dressed in black except Kelly, Tamra's "funeral" comment, and Meghan "not feeling well", all add up to a cast protest that they were all done with Kelly.  All they were missing were black armbands, and oh in Vicki's case, an exit plan w/Kelly. Vicki is so vile and desperate. 

Kelly is unbalanced and out of her league here. Shannon and Heather, who I loved prior to this episode shouldn't have stooped to this base of a level. I feel like the ladies all were having Tamra's back and telling production they'd had enough in the only way they could. 

I don't think Kelly gave them much of a choice. She complained about them excluding her and then complained about them including her. No matter which way they went, Kelly was going to complain, not offer her a drink when they did the others it becomes.....How Dare They Leave Me Out.....include her and offer/order her a drink and it becomes.......How Dare They I Said No, either way, they are screwed.

As for their comments on the bus, you can only push someone so far before they snap at you and I think Heather and Shannon had reached that point by then.

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

IMO, by the end of this season, all (minus Meghan) will look horrid for their own actions/behaviors no matter how they spin it. Heather/Tamra/Shannon were forced to interact with Vicki to keep their Oranges. Vicki came on the show intent to destroy H/S/T because they went public saying they did not want her back on the show and had no interest in ever filming/interacting with her after last season and she, Vicki, told Kelly every single dark/hurtful secret that any of the 3 ever confided to her in hopes that Kelly would spill the details. Kelly, who production knew had real/dangerous anger management issues, came on the show as a hired Vicki defender and took her assignment to heart and when the others didn't openly accept her despite her alliance with Vicki, she reveled in helping Vicki to destroy them. Leaving Meghan, who was so wrapped up in her IVF/pregnancy journey she had no time for the petty fights, to like. LOL

ohh I like and agree with all of this. Kelly is  Vickis revenge! I can;t wait to hear the dirt during that airport fight. 

[HumblePi]

28 minutes ago, FamilyVan said:

Vicki is just a bad person.  I won't even say bad friend, just bad person.  All the beginning of the season when no one else would film with her, Kelly was there going to lunch alone with Vicki and going to her birthday trip in Palm Springs.  I always suspected that Vicki would drop Kelly like a hot potato if the other ladies so much as gave her the time of day, and that is exactly what happened.  She is a shit.  Acts "neutral", literally looks the other way when Kelly is being attacked, walks out of the room, etc.  And then to take it even further, goes to Tamra and spills the beans about all Kelly has been saying.  Then when they were upstairs in the hallway when thing went south Vicki is like don't look at me, don't involve me - whaa?  I don't like Kelly at all, and I think she is a walking disaster, but I hope everyone sees the shitty person Vicki is.  SHI-TEEEEEEEE

How can I give this more than one like? 

Edited October 19, 2016 by HumblePi

[Long Spot]

Also agree on Kelly being a Vicki pawn, for better or worse.  She's served her purpose.

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, Long Spot said:

Something just dawned on me, reading Jel's post.

I know Tamra has resorted to physical threats and a few actual incidents before.

But given the body building thing...I'm wondering if she was 'roiding.  If she can make accusations against everyone, I don't mind making one myself.

A week ago I couldn't stand Kelly.  And I'm pissed that I'm having to feel badly for her today.

eh I'm sure she is maybe doing some PEDs, but I dont think her rage is induced by roids lol. She is just a scary motherfucker when she wants to be.

A tell tale sign of steroid use in women is a very developed chest/ deep voice, I dont think she has either

[Giselle]

If Kelly was coming on this show to get dirt on Michael filmed for a divorce. She just gave her husband a mother load of evidence this season about her deluded protestations that she has does nothing wrong, that she doesn't provoke, that she is always attacked first  time and time again, it's everybody else but her. Michael could call the entire cast and crew as witnesses.

Let's roll that footage! 

[pbutler111]

14 hours ago, stcroix said:

The way she reacts after drinking just screams 'alcoholic' to me :(  And the way she was looking at that drink, like she was saying to herself, "No I CANT drink that, but I WANT to so bad..."   My uncle is an alcoholic and he tries so hard but after awhile he'll slip.  And it's usually when out with other people who are drinking.  Then he becomes this totally different person :(  Watching Kelly's expression was hard.  I think both she and her husband are alcoholics and enable each other.  She probably is dying to leave him but if you remember on the phone she told him she just wanted to go home and be with him because he was the only one who understood her.  She has a big problem.  (In my opinion)

You may be right.  But that doesn't mean that the other women on this show should be expected to diagnose her problem and treat her for it.  If Kelly has a problem, she shouldn't have gone on TV.  If she has a really bad problem, the casting people shouldn't have allowed her on TV. 

[yogi2014L]

13 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

You may be right.  But that doesn't mean that the other women on this show should be expected to diagnose her problem and treat her for it.  If Kelly has a problem, she shouldn't have gone on TV.  If she has a really bad problem, the casting people shouldn't have allowed her on TV. 

You do realize that this is the same network that has allowed Kim Richards to be on TV in varying stages of non-sobriety haha so I don't think they give two shits about her welfare.

I dont know if Kelly is an alchoholic or not and it really doesn't matter- the very fact that these women were intending to get her drunk so they could manipulate and embarrass her ( just like they did with Gretchen who isn't an alcoholic) is disgusting in and of itself. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by yogi2014L

[Snarky McSnarky]

5 hours ago, Sai said:

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/real-housewives-of-orange-county-film-scenes-across-dublin-and-wicklow-and-attempt-to-track-irish-ancestry-34738496.html

Ok, this article was published May 23,  2016

In the article, the genealogist had this to say:   "Finding O’Tooles in north Wicklow is the genealogical equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel, so I laughed it off and joked that if she wanted to meet a living relative, she should just go down to Greystones, tap anyone on the shoulder and they’d be her fourth or fifth cousin. Big mistake. Californians (and Californian TV producers) tend towards the literal."

She's from St. Louis, but once again California takes the rap -- LOL.

The article also said "Irish geneologist [sic] John Grenham was approached by producers at the last minute."

Edited October 19, 2016 by Snarky McSnarky

[eurekagirl mOo]

Well Kelly is a grown ass woman and you could order me 100 drinks and if I didn't want one I just wouldn't drink it. You know who couldn't do that? Alcoholics. And if she is an alcoholic that's Kellys cross to bear not the other womens. Alcohol has always been a Real Housewife staple and I don't see that changing. 

Kelly sits there with a puss face that says "I'm super unhappy and I don't care who I make unhappy in return." But then bitches when they DO include her. You can't have it both ways..

Editing people! Just because we saw Shannon talk to a waiter doesn't mean what she SAID wasn't from another order. remember if you can't see the lips moving don't believe it!

I can't stand Kelly. Low class trash.

[zoeysmom]

16 minutes ago, yogi2014L said:

You do realize that this is the same network that has allowed Kim Richards to be on TV in varying stages of non-sobriety haha so I don't think they give two shits about her welfare.

I dont know if Kelly is an alchoholic or not and it really doesn't matter- the very fact that these women were intending to get her drunk so they could manipulate and embarrass her ( just like they did with Gretchen who isn't an alcoholic) is disgusting in and of itself. 

Kelly had a drinks served to her, there is absolutely no evidence "these women" intended to get her drunk and manipulate  and embarrass her.

Kelly has never claimed to have a problem with alcohol.  She claims she has anger management problems.  There are court documents backing her claims.

Tamra was travelling on a very restricted diet, yet no one intervened when slabs of butter and plates of cheese were served to her at the dairy.  Should Tamra be bemoaning Meghan set her up to go to a dairy where there were fats and carbs being served perhaps jeopardizing her upcoming competition?  Has Kelly ever asked that she not be around alcohol?  No, her tag line is, "I don't throw parties, I am the party." 

[ghoulina]

21 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but I don't see forcing drinks on someone as forcing them to drink and I was specifically asking how they forced her to drink since that was the phrase used.  You can force into my possession all the drinks you want and I'm just going to let them sit on the table in front of me if I don't want to drink -- doesn't matter if it's a double or a single if I'm not drinking.  Maybe I'll take a couple of sips to make it look like I'm drinking, but if I don't feel like it I'm not going to.  To force me to drink you're going to have to physically force the drink into me or disguise as something other than a glass of tequila on the rocks (double or single, I'll still be able to tell it's tequila).  

But that's you. Not everyone is that strong. Especially when surrounded by a bunch of people you aren't getting along with. Especially when you already seem to have issues with alcohol. I've been in groups where people pressure and pressure and pressure you into drinking and it's really hard to deal with. For ME. I'm not the most confident woman in the world. Yes, at the end of the day, whatever you do is on you. But it's really fucking shitty, IMO, to put someone in that position. 

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, ghoulina said:

But that's you. Not everyone is that strong. Especially when surrounded by a bunch of people you aren't getting along with. Especially when you already seem to have issues with alcohol. I've been in groups where people pressure and pressure and pressure you into drinking and it's really hard to deal with. For ME. I'm not the most confident woman in the world. Yes, at the end of the day, whatever you do is on you. But it's really fucking shitty, IMO, to put someone in that position. 

Well, we didn't see Kelly drink anything more than an initial sip at the picnic or the dinner and there is zero evidence that shows Kelly drank more than that either time. In fact, we have several of the HWs calling her out on not drinking at either but then wanting to go drinking with Vicki and Tamra after everyone retired to their rooms after dinner.

[ghoulina]

39 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

You may be right.  But that doesn't mean that the other women on this show should be expected to diagnose her problem and treat her for it.  If Kelly has a problem, she shouldn't have gone on TV.  If she has a really bad problem, the casting people shouldn't have allowed her on TV. 

From what I've seen, the majority of the time that Kelly has gotten drunk, she's gone off on these women in really nasty ways. Why would they WANT her to do that again? If it were me, I'd be all - "Wise choice not to drink, Kelly! Good for you!" To try and put her in the state of mind that she's been in when she's called people "c****" or insulted them as parents, says to me that they're trying to set her up for more bad behavior. 

[zoeysmom]

Just now, ghoulina said:

But that's you. Not everyone is that strong. Especially when surrounded by a bunch of people you aren't getting along with. Especially when you already seem to have issues with alcohol. I've been in groups where people pressure and pressure and pressure you into drinking and it's really hard to deal with. For ME. I'm not the most confident woman in the world. Yes, at the end of the day, whatever you do is on you. But it's really fucking shitty, IMO, to put someone in that position. 

Kelly had plans to go out drinking after dinner-it is not as if she struggles with alcohol-she was the only one with the puss face.  I don't think Kelly has ever admitted to having issues with alcohol.  If the situations were reversed and the women were ordering and Kelly ordered a drink and the one of the others had said, "none for Kelly she is too volatile when she drinks," Kelly would be furious.  Kelly argument gets lost because she is so paranoid.  She is always being set up.  No she is put in everyday social situations and no really cares how she reacts.  She needs to stop expressing every thought.  Her issue at the last supper was with Vicki, why does she have to be such a downer?  She had said her piece why couldn't she just get along?  Oh because they were talking about having a party for Tamra instead of asking Kelly about why she was so upset. 

[ghoulina]

3 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Well, we didn't see Kelly drink anything more than an initial sip at the picnic or the dinner and there is zero evidence that shows Kelly drank more than that either time. In fact, we have several of the HWs calling her out on not drinking at either but then wanting to go drinking with Vicki and Tamra after everyone retired to their rooms after dinner.

Right. It looks like Kelly was able to abstain, at least to a degree. But it's not about HER, IMO. She could be the nicest woman in the world of the vile trashbox that she is - what the other girls did says a lot about who THEY are. Just my opinion. I see no reason to try and give her double shots of tequila unless they WANTED "you dumbfuck!" Kelly back. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by ghoulina

[pbutler111]

33 minutes ago, yogi2014L said:

You do realize that this is the same network that has allowed Kim Richards to be on TV in varying stages of non-sobriety haha so I don't think they give two shits about her welfare.

I dont know if Kelly is an alchoholic or not and it really doesn't matter- the very fact that these women were intending to get her drunk so they could manipulate and embarrass her ( just like they did with Gretchen who isn't an alcoholic) is disgusting in and of itself. 

To me it just seems like they're doing their job, which is to create watchable TV, not ensure the dignity and sobriety of a fellow cast member (which I'm pretty sure would be the antithesis of doing their job).

[ElDosEquis]

1 hour ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

The chair shawls were the BEST. Right up there with how we all agree on Bethenny's red dress/coat in the scene breaking up w/Jill Z.

I have a toothache and Scary Ireland vs. Scary Island just gave me my will to live! BRILLIANT!

What a mess. That last supper with them all dressed in black except Kelly, Tamra's "funeral" comment, and Meghan "not feeling well", all add up to a cast protest that they were all done with Kelly.  All they were missing were black armbands, and oh in Vicki's case, an exit plan w/Kelly. Vicki is so vile and desperate. 

Kelly is unbalanced and out of her league here. Shannon and Heather, who I loved prior to this episode shouldn't have stooped to this base of a level. I feel like the ladies all were having Tamra's back and telling production they'd had enough in the only way they could. 

Shovels, you forgot to mention the shovels, but none of those stupid bitches would get their hands dirty to dig the grave, shove her in and cover her up...

[beaker73]

4 hours ago, Bebecat said:

Some peopl all allergic to alcohol and don't know it. It makes them act crazy, not just drunk. John Lennon was supposedly such a person. Maybe this witch Kelly is one too.

My sister is one of those people that has a strange intolerance/allergy to alcohol.  I think it's more like a chemical imbalance or something that occurs and. It can be very strange and disturbing thing to witness--like a switch being turned on.  One minute they're fine and the next a raging personality comes out. 

Not to beat a dead horse--but, I don't think Kelly is an alcoholic. She has anger, mental health and personality issues that are magnified x1000 when she drinks. At the picnic when Heather asked if she wanted champagne she said she felt like she was going to vomit (hungover) and that she needed to pace herself.  She wasn't planning on not drinking for the rest of the trip--she just didn't want to start then. When she was passed the Fireball she brought the shot up to her lips and was about to drink when she smelled it, made a face and put it down.  She drank the Bailey's at lunch, drank with Vicki and had a glass of wine in her hand when they did the toast with Meghan on Facetime.  I personally don't see the big deal about the dinner.  Maybe they were trying to get her raging drunk so she'd make a fool of herself. Maybe not. Who knows. 

What I am curious about is the hallway fight.  I think Vicki is to blame for the whole thing.  

[eurekagirl mOo]

I can't imagine going to Ireland and NOT having Irish butter on bread or a load of potatoes. And, yes please, I'll try the Baileys. But if you don't want you, hey your tummy not mine. Could somebody please pass that steak this way please?

[ElDosEquis]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

From what I've seen, the majority of the time that Kelly has gotten drunk, she's gone off on these women in really nasty ways. Why would they WANT her to do that again? If it were me, I'd be all - "Wise choice not to drink, Kelly! Good for you!" To try and put her in the state of mind that she's been in when she's called people "c****" or insulted them as parents, says to me that they're trying to set her up for more bad behavior. 

Yep, you are correct.

Their fueling her drinking/explosive antics just allows the hag to draw back, the back of their hands covering their mouths and clutching pearls?

Had Kelly started in on the booze and flipped out?

None of those "C's" would have taken responsibility for pushing booze on her - no way, no how. Fucking Shannon would have thrown her hands up and used some lame excuse like, "I didn't know she was going to get drunk...."

Good TV? Naw, to most of us? It's just a form of abusing people.

It's OK for them to back a cast member into corner, but OH MY FUCKING GAWD, WE HAVE A RABID BADGER IN A PILLOWASE ON THE BUS, WHAT DO WE DO?

Deal with that first, then go after the person(s) who brought it on board.  

----------------------------

As I said before, Kelly was fucked either way.

In a way, I don't blame K for blowing up and talking smack - Bicki claims to be the 'original gangster' of OC, Let's see how she handles someone who flips out - like a 'gangster'?  The rest of the 'ladies' pretend that the are above the fray, but they are just nasty POS that have money.

[yourmomiseasy]

41 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But that's you. Not everyone is that strong. Especially when surrounded by a bunch of people you aren't getting along with. Especially when you already seem to have issues with alcohol. I've been in groups where people pressure and pressure and pressure you into drinking and it's really hard to deal with. For ME. I'm not the most confident woman in the world. Yes, at the end of the day, whatever you do is on you. But it's really fucking shitty, IMO, to put someone in that position. 

You're right.  Kelly has definitely shown herself, over the course of the season, to be easily pressured into doing things she doesn't want to do.  She's more likely to just go along with others and not rock the boat than to do something like proclaim "Fuck 'em" or leave them at Costco.  

[yogi2014L]

42 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Kelly had a drinks served to her, there is absolutely no evidence "these women" intended to get her drunk and manipulate  and embarrass her.

Kelly has never claimed to have a problem with alcohol.  She claims she has anger management problems.  There are court documents backing her claims.

Tamra was travelling on a very restricted diet, yet no one intervened when slabs of butter and plates of cheese were served to her at the dairy.  Should Tamra be bemoaning Meghan set her up to go to a dairy where there were fats and carbs being served perhaps jeopardizing her upcoming competition?  Has Kelly ever asked that she not be around alcohol?  No, her tag line is, "I don't throw parties, I am the party." 

I think the evidence is the continued pushing of alcohol in a very contrived way, and the fact that they have done this before to Gretchen.

And yes- she did decline drinks numerous times and Heather and Shannon gave them to her anyway. 

Its a lot different ( in my book) because alcohol is dangerous and can impair judgement and for alcoholics- once they start they can't stop. Its very different in my book than teasing Tamra with a piece of bread.  

I guess my tolerance for watching people like this has just ended lol. I don;t know why it has taken so much bad behavior but I just felt gross after watching that. I have a feeling they were hoping Kelly would get drunk and hit someone, so they could get her off the show. 

[WireWrap]

33 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Right. It looks like Kelly was able to abstain, at least to a degree. But it's not about HER, IMO. She could be the nicest woman in the world of the vile trashbox that she is - what the other girls did says a lot about who THEY are. Just my opinion. I see no reason to try and give her double shots of tequila unless they WANTED "you dumbfuck!" Kelly back. 

Yes and No. LOL Had they not included her she would have been, and in fact was, complaining about not being included. In fact, Shannon did not order Kelly a drink until after Kelly (who was sitting next to Shannon) complained about being "excluded again" ! So... Heather/Shannon were dammed if they do/dammed if the don't as far as Kelly was concerned, as Kelly had expressed being upset/hurt about not being "included" several times that day. LOL

[Jel]

27 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Kelly had a drinks served to her, there is absolutely no evidence "these women" intended to get her drunk and manipulate  and embarrass her.

Kelly has never claimed to have a problem with alcohol.  She claims she has anger management problems.  There are court documents backing her claims.

Tamra was travelling on a very restricted diet, yet no one intervened when slabs of butter and plates of cheese were served to her at the dairy.  Should Tamra be bemoaning Meghan set her up to go to a dairy where there were fats and carbs being served perhaps jeopardizing her upcoming competition?  Has Kelly ever asked that she not be around alcohol?  No, her tag line is, "I don't throw parties, I am the party." 

I think there's plenty of evidence those women intended to get her drunk, or wanted to see her make a scene, which, with Kelly, is easiest done via drinking.

In no particular order, the evidence according to Jel: 

Tam's "Kelly's funeral" comment;

Tamra's history of setting people up (Gretchen/naked wasted);

Shannon ordering drinks for Kelly when Kelly said she didn't want to drink;

Shannon telling the waiter to make it a double without Kelly's knowledge but with full knowledge that Kelly didn't want alcohol;

Their past remarks about how out of control Kelly is when she drinks demonstrating their belief that Kelly + booze = bad times.

Re: the example you gave about Tamra and her diet. Tamra's case is different because it wasn't her friends who were serving her the non-diet food. And she wasn't saying no to it and having it served to her anyway because her friend basically said, "Oh ignore her "No"; she'll have the butter and cheese". And no one was secretly going to the waiter telling him to make Tamra's portion double butter and sugar without Tamra's knowledge.  

If they did any of that, I'd say they were trying to undermine her diet. 

[yogi2014L]

37 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

To me it just seems like they're doing their job, which is to create watchable TV, not ensure the dignity and sobriety of a fellow cast member (which I'm pretty sure would be the antithesis of doing their job).

well I guess this just was not watchable for me LOL!  I guess I'd rather watch someone go totally off the rails on their own ala Kim Richards then be set up for some high school mean girl take down. But they sure as hell did bring the drama I wanna know what is said and all the dirty housewives secrets

Just my preference which I think is pretty bad either way in retrospect. LOL. :-) 

[ElDosEquis]

33 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Kelly had plans to go out drinking after dinner-it is not as if she struggles with alcohol-she was the only one with the puss face.  I don't think Kelly has ever admitted to having issues with alcohol.  If the situations were reversed and the women were ordering and Kelly ordered a drink and the one of the others had said, "none for Kelly she is too volatile when she drinks," Kelly would be furious.  Kelly argument gets lost because she is so paranoid.  She is always being set up.  No she is put in everyday social situations and no really cares how she reacts.  She needs to stop expressing every thought.  Her issue at the last supper was with Vicki, why does she have to be such a downer?  She had said her piece why couldn't she just get along?  Oh because they were talking about having a party for Tamra instead of asking Kelly about why she was so upset. 

I used to be a "Kelly" when I partied.

I was the one that would get (drunk) and do very STUPID SHIT like climbing on top of things, running about and getting so wasted I became a vegetable.

I figured out that my 'buds' were just plying me with whatever, so I could 'entertain' them.

NO one was going to save me from myself, that came from inside me and with the help of a few people who were truly human(e) beings.

They didn't couch the statement so brutally (you are volatile), They sat down and SPOKE to me and voiced their concern about me and my well being.

-----

Kelly may be an asshole, drunk, bitch, crazy person.

But if she was someone else, we'd be talking about her pain, her past or the reason she is such a fucked up being.

I never give up on damaged human beings, but that comes form a fellow fuck up?

[Almost 3000]

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

What happened over the past few weeks that dropped Kelly from the Glamis 4, with Shannon taking her place?  The story unfolding on these episodes is incomplete at best.

Perhaps it was the TMZ story about Kelly in real time and off the show that set everyone in the cast against her.

[MatildaMoody]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I think the reason they are taking Tamra's side is pretty evident.  They love and care about Tamra, and don't like Kelly at all.

I don't think they actually care about Tamra. They see Tamra as the key to staying on the show IMO. We know that Heather never even wanted to do the show and based on the way she contorts herself to defend Tamra, it's clear that they would not be friends if not for the the show. Shannon has already been on the receiving end of Heather and Tamra's wrath and has no desire to be there again if she can help it. So, I don't think it has anything at all to do with how they genuinely feel about Tamra so much as they need Tamra for their own agendas.  

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, Jel said:

I think there's plenty of evidence those women intended to get her drunk, or wanted to see her make a scene, which, with Kelly, is easiest done via drinking.

In no particular order, the evidence according to Jel: 

Tam's "Kelly's funeral" comment;

Tamra's history of setting people up (Gretchen/naked wasted);

Shannon ordering drinks for Kelly when Kelly said she didn't want to drink;

Shannon telling the waiter to make it a double without Kelly's knowledge but with full knowledge that Kelly didn't want alcohol;

Their past remarks about how out of control Kelly is when she drinks demonstrating their belief that Kelly + booze = bad times.

Re: the example you gave about Tamra and her diet. Tamra's case is different because it wasn't her friends who were serving her the non-diet food. And she wasn't saying no to it and having it served to her anyway because her friend basically said, "Oh ignore her "No"; she'll have the butter and cheese". And no one was secretly going to the waiter telling him to make Tamra's portion double butter and sugar without Tamra's knowledge.  

If they did any of that, I'd say they were trying to undermine her diet. 

How about Vicki pouring shots down Tamra's throat, literally, even though Tamra initially said No! Where is the outcry that Vicki was setting Tamra up to go off on someone as she is also a HW that doesn't handle booze/anger well either. Not to forget that Tamra had not been drinking for a time because of the upcoming competition, so she would not be able to handle the alcohol as well as she would normally be able to. Where is the outcry over that or is it missing because Tamra has shown herself to be an ass, with or without alcohol......say like Kelly has as well this season? LOL

[zulualpha]

51 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Kelly had a drinks served to her, there is absolutely no evidence "these women" intended to get her drunk and manipulate  and embarrass her.

We might have to agree to disagree here.  I think Heather pouring shots of Fireball and champagne at the picnic after Kelly said no is evidence as is Tamra's comment about "Kelly's funeral", as is Tamra's "this shit is going down "face for most of the dinner, as is Shannon ordering tequila for Kelly at dinner as is Shannon changing the drink orders to doubles and most especially the producers helpfully throwing in their two cents with the flashbacks to naked wasted.

Jel I see we're on the same page!

For a primer on the classy way to handle a "Kelly" see Lisa Vanderpump vis a vis Brandi.  Lisa not only tried to get Brandi to stop drinking she grabbed the bottle of wine from Brandi when she was in mid swig!  Lisa didn't really give up on Brandi til Brandi clocked her which was understandably the last straw.

3 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

How about Vicki pouring shots down Tamra's throat, literally, even though Tamra initially said No!

Icki shouldn't have done that but she wasn't doing it with  malice like Shannon, Tamra and Heather were.  imo.

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

I used to be a "Kelly" when I partied.

I was the one that would get (drunk) and do very STUPID SHIT like climbing on top of things, running about and getting so wasted I became a vegetable.

I figured out that my 'buds' were just plying me with whatever, so I could 'entertain' them.

NO one was going to save me from myself, that came from inside me and with the help of a few people who were truly human(e) beings.

They didn't couch the statement so brutally (you are volatile), They sat down and SPOKE to me and voiced their concern about me and my well being.

-----

Kelly may be an asshole, drunk, bitch, crazy person.

But if she was someone else, we'd be talking about her pain, her past or the reason she is such a fucked up being.

I never give up on damaged human beings, but that comes form a fellow fuck up?

Kelly was attacking/criticizing the others right out of the gate upon meeting them, well before she got drunk in front of them the first time. She was never "friends" with any of them, including Vicki and Meghan.

6 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

Perhaps it was the TMZ story about Kelly in real time and off the show that set everyone in the cast against her.

According to Tamra, I think, we are seeing Kelly at her best because her really ugly behavior ended up on the cutting room floor. If that is true.....YIKES and that would explain why the others are at the end of their rope with Kelly.

[Duke2801]

All of this talk of the ladies being "mean girls" to Kelly on the trip is perplexing to me.  Kelly is one of the meanest of the mean girls. A real Regina George of the OC.  So when she got stripped of her army of skanks in Ireland (which consisted mostly of Vicki) all of a sudden she's trying to rewrite history in the Burn Book.  Too late Kelly.  You've already shown your ass.  We see it, and we see you. 

Maybe I have my love blinders on, but I honestly don't think Shannon "make it a double sweetie" Bedor's drink order for Kelly was malicious.  I think she was in party mode and wanted everybody to enjoy themselves on their last night. 

 

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 6:26 AM, Ubiquitous said:

What the heck did I watch this week?

Shannon trying to get Kelly drunk reminded me of "Naked Drunk" before it was mentioned.

I'm sick and tired of Vicki trying to act zany by pretending to get stuck on the car door and not know how to ride a bike, etc.

The sudden fighting in the hall. I am guessing there is footage being saved for the reunion or "lost footage" ep.

No because the Brava cameras didn't capture any of it.  That footage was from Heather's cell phone. 

[Almost 3000]

2 hours ago, HumblePi said:

I would categorize her as having Histrionic Personality Disorder.

I would think this is generally true across the HW franchises. HPD = "E" ticket to a ride on a Real Housewife show.

[ninjago]

6 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

I don't think they actually care about Tamra. They see Tamra as the key to staying on the show IMO.

The catbird seat on this show is to be in Tamra's orbit, but not the target of her attacks, because you can get screen time just discussing and trying to resolve the drama Tamra causes, and, importantly, you don't have to provide any personal storylines of your own.

[Jel]

Just now, WireWrap said:

How about Vicki pouring shots down Tamra's throat, literally, even though Tamra initially said No! Where is the outcry that Vicki was setting Tamra up to go off on someone as she is also a HW that doesn't handle booze/anger well either. Not to forget that Tamra had not been drinking for a time because of the upcoming competition, so she would not be able to handle the alcohol as well as she would normally be able to. Where is the outcry over that or is it missing because Tamra has shown herself to be an ass, with or without alcohol......say like Kelly has as well this season? LOL

Well, we're talking about this episode here. I'd guess any outcry about Vicki would be in that epi's thread or the Vicki zone because I know we are all doing our best to stay on topic and post in the appropriate threads :) 

As for me not saying anything about it...I dunno, knock me down a letter grade? 

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

 

For a primer on the classy way to handle a "Kelly" see Lisa Vanderpump vis a vis Brandi.  Lisa not only tried to get Brandi to stop drinking she grabbed the bottle of wine from Brandi when she was in mid swig!  Lisa didn't really give up on Brandi til Brandi clocked her which was understandably the last straw.

Icki shouldn't have done that but she wasn't doing it with  malice like Shannon, Tamra and Heather were.  imo.

Lisa had history with Brandi, no one has it with Kelly and that is a big difference IMO.

I disagree about Vicki wanting to get Tamra drunk. She knows better than anyone else that Tamra can't control herself when she gets blasted and she also knew that Tamra hadn't been drinking in weeks, so her tolerance for alcohol would be zero. I really believe that Vicki set Kelly up and used her to go off on/hurt/attack Tamra, Shannon and Heather big time.

[ghoulina]

23 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

How about Vicki pouring shots down Tamra's throat, literally, even though Tamra initially said No! Where is the outcry that Vicki was setting Tamra up to go off on someone as she is also a HW that doesn't handle booze/anger well either. Not to forget that Tamra had not been drinking for a time because of the upcoming competition, so she would not be able to handle the alcohol as well as she would normally be able to. Where is the outcry over that or is it missing because Tamra has shown herself to be an ass, with or without alcohol......say like Kelly has as well this season? LOL

I think that was crappy too. Vicki is an ass. I don't think she was trying to set her up, though. Vicki has, several times, whined about "the old days" with herself and Tammy Sue, when they'd get drunk and party together. I think she was trying to get her old friend back. But regardless of motive, it's wrong. I said on the very first Ireland episode that I hate peer pressure drinking, I don't care who is on the receiving end. 

 

35 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes and No. LOL Had they not included her she would have been, and in fact was, complaining about not being included. In fact, Shannon did not order Kelly a drink until after Kelly (who was sitting next to Shannon) complained about being "excluded again" ! So... Heather/Shannon were dammed if they do/dammed if the don't as far as Kelly was concerned, as Kelly had expressed being upset/hurt about not being "included" several times that day. LOL

I don't really remember that. But I'd rather deal with a mopey/sullen Kelly than a drunk, incensed Kelly. 

[Bebecat]

Icky is, and always has been a classless crass pig. No one can compete, she is right about that.

[MatildaMoody]

I have to hand it to Tamra. She is really good at manipulating people and situations. Think about it, the only two people who could ever take her down (Heather and Shannon) are terrified of being her enemy. She has shown both of them that she will take you down if she decides that is what the show needs. Heather only barely missed being Tamra's punching bag because Vicki told Tamra she would lose if she went against Heather. Because Tamra obviously had Heather in her sights for a take down in Shannon's first season. If it hadn't been for Vicki telling Tamra to stop it, and Lizzie providing just enough of a distraction, Heather would have known exactly what it felt like to be on the receiving end of Tamra's wrath. So, I am not surprised that Heather and Shannon twist themselves to defend Tamra no matter what, but I am surprised at how clumsy they have been about it this season. I had such high hopes for a Shannon/Heather partnership to finally sink Tamra, but like a cockroach the woman keeps coming back stronger. 

[WireWrap]

42 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I think that was crappy too. Vicki is an ass. I don't think she was trying to set her up, though. Vicki has, several times, whined about "the old days" with herself and Tammy Sue, when they'd get drunk and party together. I think she was trying to get her old friend back. But regardless of motive, it's wrong. I said on the very first Ireland episode that I hate peer pressure drinking, I don't care who is on the receiving end. 

 

I don't really remember that. But I'd rather deal with a mopey/sullen Kelly than a drunk, incensed Kelly. 

It was "mopey/sullen Kelly" we all saw go off on the bus back to the airport though, not "drunk, incensed Kelly" !. LOL

[WireWrap]

27 minutes ago, MatildaMoody said:

I have to hand it to Tamra. She is really good at manipulating people and situations. Think about it, the only two people who could ever take her down (Heather and Shannon) are terrified of being her enemy. She has shown both of them that she will take you down if she decides that is what the show needs. Heather only barely missed being Tamra's punching bag because Vicki told Tamra she would lose if she went against Heather. Because Tamra obviously had Heather in her sights for a take down in Shannon's first season. If it hadn't been for Vicki telling Tamra to stop it, and Lizzie providing just enough of a distraction, Heather would have known exactly what it felt like to be on the receiving end of Tamra's wrath. So, I am not surprised that Heather and Shannon twist themselves to defend Tamra no matter what, but I am surprised at how clumsy they have been about it this season. I had such high hopes for a Shannon/Heather partnership to finally sink Tamra, but like a cockroach the woman keeps coming back stronger. 

I'm not so sure Vicki was so innocent back then either. IMO, she and Tamra set Heather up together and set out to keep Heather/Shannon from becoming friends. So much so that it was Shannon that Vicki told the Terry/IV lie to, in addition to telling Briana, because she never thought Heather and Shannon would ever make nice and the secret revealed. I think Vicki fears being odd man out more than Tamra does, way more.

[VedaPierce]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Right. It looks like Kelly was able to abstain, at least to a degree. But it's not about HER, IMO. She could be the nicest woman in the world of the vile trashbox that she is - what the other girls did says a lot about who THEY are. Just my opinion. I see no reason to try and give her double shots of tequila unless they WANTED "you dumbfuck!" Kelly back. 

1k likes. I don't give a crap about Kelly, who I think is troubled and needs professional help and/ or medication. And if I know that, Tamra, Shannon and Heather know it too. So my question is, why intentionally go after a sick person? Like stupid children teasing and taunting a wounded, lashing out animal...it speaks volumes about THEM.