Hillary Rodham Clinton: 2016 Democratic Presidential Nominee

[Padma]

1 hour ago, Queena said:

We need a forum on that. I don't know how to take those types of politicians. I need to finish the movie that HBO did on LBJ. Lincoln was the same way. There are a few other presidents there were the same way. It's because of Lincoln that Obama and I have the same God-Mother (Willie Barrow RIP), and after 20 books, and 2 movies, I am still unsure of my feelings for Lincoln. 

 

I don't trust the Wikileaks stuff. I think that some of the emails were proven to be falsified. CNN said that they didn't give DB any of the questions in advance. DB is one of the few people around from Gore's campaign. Carville's still around, but he's more of a pundit these days, DB actually works. Poor Daley left politics completly I think. 

Re: your first suggestion. That would be interesting, but I don't want all my illusions destroyed. I recently read WAY too much about LBJ and actually hate him as a person despite the important legislation (Kennedy would have gotten it through in that Congress, too, I believe, as he planned to.)  I still love Lincoln. Not sure I'm ready for all my illusions about our leaders to be shattered.

Re: the second. Wow. It would be nice if that got more widely known. That was the worst thing I heard from the recent batch--CNN giving DB questions--and it was disappointing. If it's NOT true...if in addition to being unethical, ANY of these wikileaks are politically motivated faked PLANTS, that makes the entire batch of them worthless.

[biakbiak]

21 minutes ago, Padma said:

 

Re: the second. Wow. It would be nice if that got more widely known. That was the worst thing I heard from the recent batch--CNN giving DB questions--and it was disappointing. If it's NOT true...if in addition to being unethical, ANY of these wikileaks are politically motivated faked PLANTS, that makes the entire batch of them worthless.

Falsified or not they were stolen by Russia. A top Bernie aide said that the communications where the same he had with her.

Wikileaks is a partisan piece of trash. I actually feel sort ban for Snowden because a ton of people think what he did and what WikiLeaks does are the same which is not remotely true, it doesn't help that the only place Snowden can feel safe from extradition is Russia but the two had/have very different goals.

Edited October 14, 2016 by biakbiak

[Queena]

28 minutes ago, Padma said:

Re: your first suggestion. That would be interesting, but I don't want all my illusions destroyed. I recently read WAY too much about LBJ and actually hate him as a person despite the important legislation (Kennedy would have gotten it through in that Congress, too, I believe, as he planned to.)  I still love Lincoln. Not sure I'm ready for all my illusions about our leaders to be shattered.

Re: the second. Wow. It would be nice if that got more widely known. That was the worst thing I heard from the recent batch--CNN giving DB questions--and it was disappointing. If it's NOT true...if in addition to being unethical, ANY of these wikileaks are politically motivated faked PLANTS, that makes the entire batch of them worthless.

 

My illusions on Lincoln were destroyed back in 8th grade. I grew up in the near south, for some of my childhood, and my parents and grandparents told me about White people who called you the N word, but would still help you. I don't understand it. I guess it's kind of like my brother in law who thinks that all White people are racist, but is best friends with my Aunt's White boyfriend.

I would love to read more about LBJ. I know that the author of Team of Rivals wrote a book on LBJ, and Team of Rivals was the last and final book that I read on Lincoln. I promised myself that I wouldn't read any other books on Lincoln. I don't think that you should let it stop you from reading about Lincoln. He was a fascinating man, and Mary Todd Lincoln was even more fascinating. If you could recommend a few titles on LBJ...I haven't been able to read much lately, but maybe after Hillary wins I can. 

 

I think that a lot of people dislike Hillary because of Bill. I know that I did. 

[starri]

5 minutes ago, Queena said:

I would love to read more about LBJ. I know that the author of Team of Rivals wrote a book on LBJ

Lyndon Johnson and the American Dream.  It was Doris Kearns Goodwin's first book.  There's also Robert Caro's The Years of Lyndon Johnson series, which is going to ape The Last Lion as a multi-part biography of a major historical that took decades to finish.  At least this probably won't have to be finished posthumously.

If you want a really good book about a great man with a messy private life, Goodwin's No Ordinary Time is a wonderful history of FDR and Eleanor during WWII.  If/when Hillary is sworn in, I'd like to imagine Eleanor pumping her fist somewhere.

[Kitty Redstone]

I don't intend to read any of the wikileaks dump. 

2 hours ago, Queena said:

We need a forum on that. I don't know how to take those types of politicians. I need to finish the movie that HBO did on LBJ. Lincoln was the same way.

A few years ago there was a much lauded article in Time in which the author argued that Lincoln moderated Frederick Douglass.  It was ridiculous, as in actuality it was Douglass who influenced Lincoln and made him see and feel the true awfulness and wrongness of slavery. 

[madmaverick]

I thought this was quite funny.   I never want to dip into those batshit crazy right wing conspiracy sites so probably only know a fraction of what they accuse Hillary of, which is probably everything, anyway.

[Queena]

23 minutes ago, Kitty Redstone said:

I don't intend to read any of the wikileaks dump. 

A few years ago there was a much lauded article in Time in which the author argued that Lincoln moderated Frederick Douglass.  It was ridiculous, as in actuality it was Douglass who influenced Lincoln and made him see and feel the true awfulness and wrongness of slavery. 

 

 

Sure was. Lincoln didn't think that Black are human, and actually wanted to send the slaves back to Africa. Douglass made him see the improbability in that solution. Team of Rivals, while long, was a very good book. Lincoln the movie, while it took a bunch of liberties, and added people that weren't in the book, was a VERY good movie. One of Spielberg's best.

 

Lincoln is one of my top 5 favorite president's, with Obama being my favorite. I'm going to miss Obama. Quick, let me make a slideshow like Dre off of Blackish. I can't believe that in my 41 years of living, I will hopefully, experience a Black and a Woman president, how wonderful is that? My son was born under a Black president, and will experience toddlerhood under a female president. While not perfect, this country is great! 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Queena

[Princess Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Queena said:

Lincoln is one of my top 5 favorite president, with Obama being my favorite. I'm going to miss Obama. Quick, let me make a slideshow like Dre off of Blackish. I can't believe that in my 41 years of living, I will hopefully, experience a Black and a Woman president, how wonderful is that? My son was born under a Black president, and experience toddlerhood under a female president. While not perfect, this country is great! 

I realize how freaking lame this is about to make me sound, but I actually cried when Hillary won the nomination.  I was just...so overwhelmed with joy that I have the ability to vote for a woman for president, and that some little girl can look and say "That can be me someday."  I'm just even happier that in the first two elections where I could vote, I had the ability to vote for the first black president and will be able to vote for (hopefully) the first female president.

Aaaaaaand now I'm crying at my desk at work. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Princess Sparkle
typo

[starri]

Just now, Princess Sparkle said:

I realize how freaking lame this is about to make me sound, but I actually cried when Hillary won the nomination.

I cried too. It was that video she showed, with Shirley Chisholm, and Gloria Steinem, and Ann Richards. And it's not lame.

I was beside myself 11PM on Election Night 2008 when it was official that Obama was the 44th president.  I don't think I'm going to have quite the same reaction this time (if, always if), if only because she's not as touchy-feely as he is.  But I'm looking forward to little girls finally having proof that they can do anything boys can do.

[BoogieBurns]

7 minutes ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I realize how freaking lame this is about to make me sound, but I actually cried when Hillary won the nomination.  I was just...so overwhelmed with joy that I have the ability to vote for a woman for president, and that some little girl can look and say "That can be me someday."  I'm just even happier in that the first two elections where I could vote, I had the ability to vote for the first black president and will be able to vote for (hopefully) the first female president.

Aaaaaaand now I'm crying at my desk at work. 

The actual night she won the nomination, I felt like it could still be taken away, or something. I was satisfied, yet unemotional. But at the convention, when she said, "Little girls staying up late to watch, I may become the first woman president. But one of you is next!" I think I cried for 24 solid hours.

And now I'm crying again.

My nieces are 10 and under, so they will only know black and female and presidents (God-willing!) for their entire childhood. Since they are all black females, that just makes me think they get a bump of self esteem and a feeling that they are just as entitled to be in this country as all the little white boys. Something I never had when I grew up.

[NewDigs]

We were on a cruise the week of the DNC and where were we every night?

In our cabin, cheering and snuffling and crying and feeling so fine.

And while I still have those feelings it's amazing how quickly things went awry.

[starri]

This.  This right here is why I'm voting for her.

[Queena]

46 minutes ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I realize how freaking lame this is about to make me sound, but I actually cried when Hillary won the nomination.  I was just...so overwhelmed with joy that I have the ability to vote for a woman for president, and that some little girl can look and say "That can be me someday."  I'm just even happier in that the first two elections where I could vote, I had the ability to vote for the first black president and will be able to vote for (hopefully) the first female president.

Aaaaaaand now I'm crying at my desk at work. 

 

I remember that night, a friend called me and said " you know that they're going to kill...." I hung up the phone, I didn't let her finish. You will not ruin this night for me! I was in Chicago then. I couldn't get no where near downtown where Obama was speaking. 

I cried during Michelle's speech, and during Hillary's speech. I was already with her, but that night, I firmly became WITH her. There's a meme, I don't know how to post pictures, but it's a picture of Prince, and it says "girl, I guess I'm with her". That was me before her speech at the convention. Now I'm firmly with her, like I was with Obama. It's not the lesser of the two evils, because I don't think that she's evil. I'm just amazed at how people expect Hillary to be this superhuman being. She isn't, and she shouldn't have to be. My vote is cast. She convinced me. I think that I was one of the first people to vote early in my area....of course now I feel left out. I won't get to vote on election day...and I feel as if I haven't voted. Unlike some people, I like Tim Kaine.

[maraleia]

Julian Assange has a warrant out for his arrest for rape charges in Sweden so anything he puts out via wikileaks is suspect. He also hates Hillary with a passion of a thousand burning suns so there's that. This is why he's hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy in the UK so he can't get extradited. He's slime.

Should we all be better when communicating via any platform, yes. Will Podesta, Brazile and others learn from this? I hope so but I think some of what is in these emails is doctored by the Russians.

30 minutes ago, starri said:

This.  This right here is why I'm voting for her.

I concur with this wholeheartedly. Also, she's promised that half of her cabinet will be women and it will be diverse in other areas like Justin Trudeau's cabinet in Canada. Obama doesn't even have a 50/50 split with his cabinet BTW.

[starri]

1 minute ago, Queena said:

Unlike some people, I like Tim Kaine.

I like him too.  I used to live in Virginia, and I voted for him for Lieutenant Governor, Governor, and Senator, and I never thought I'd have the opportunity to do it again.

 

1 minute ago, maraleia said:

Should we all be better when communicating via any platform, yes. Will Podesta, Brazile and others learn from this? I hope so but I think some of what is in these emails is doctored by the Russians.

Or often being taken out of context.  There's supposedly some communication to Tim Kaine from the summer of 2015 where she told him he'd be her VP that somehow "proves" the primary was rigged.  Except that, you know, the other interpretation is "You will likely be my running mate if I win the nomination."

[ruby24]

Yeah, some of WikiLeaks' interpretation of the stuff that's in there makes me think neither they nor the Russians are all that familiar with American politics or journalism practices. Like just today they were tweeting out that the New York Times "warns" Hillary of stories they are going to print ahead of time. Ummm....that's called calling for comment before the story publishes? Which they do for everyone? And yeah, how on earth do they think her talking to Tim Kaine in 2015 "proves" the primary was rigged?

Even the DNC hack this summer, Julian Assange seemed to be under the impression that the DNC was this all powerful organization that had total control over the election process, which it absolutely does not. Both the DNC and the RNC are pretty disorganized entities- campaigns never rely on them for that much help during the election (well, maybe Trump, because he didn't have the money he said he did and he has zero ground operation). But if you're depending on the DNC/RNC, your campaign is pretty weak to begin with.

[starri]

6 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Both the DNC and the RNC are pretty disorganized entities- campaigns never rely on them for that much help during the election

If anything with Hillary and the DNC, it's the other way around.

[33kaitykaity]

Hillary: Good for Cats

Quote

 

Monica Alba ‏@albamonica 
In which Hillary Clinton says at an SF fundraiser that her campaign will be "good for people and for cats." (Yes, really.) 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028230678

 

[starri]

I think the campaign does very well (as did her 2008 campaign) when it reminds people that she has a sense of humor.

[Darian]

17 minutes ago, starri said:

I think the campaign does very well (as did her 2008 campaign) when it reminds people that she has a sense of humor.

I don't know if you have seen the Woman Card the campaign put out, but I have one. It's modeled on the subway card she famously had trouble using (the expiration date is inauguration day). And on her campaign site, if you get a 404 error page, the background is a picture of that moment. 

[starri]

In 2008, one of her fundraising drives was centered around picking an official campaign song.  In the video announcing it, she said "I make you this solemn promise:  No matter which song you chose, I will NOT sing it in public" [hard cut to her very off-key rendition of the National Anthem] "Unless I win!"

Then when the winner was announced, the video was done as a parody of the Sopranos finale.

[Hanahope]

I can't believe we have another 3 weeks of this stuff.  I wish the election was next week so we could just get it over with and elect Hillary.

[atomationage]

The election is over for me.  I've done my bit.  Now it's up to the country to decide on the case of The Lady Versus The Drumpf:

[madmaverick]

I saw a clip of her on Ellen and thought she came across as quite personable.  Maybe she hasn't the overwhelming charisma of Obama or Bill or Blair (and charisma has never turned out to be an accurate indicator of competence), but her public personality is fine for me.  And I do think she can be quite funny.  She certainly isn't someone who would invite automatic dislike from me just by being herself.  How annoying it must be to have people (who don't know you!) keep telling you you're not likable, or to smile more etc.  I would find it hurtful.

[Padma]

4 hours ago, starri said:

Lyndon Johnson and the American Dream.  It was Doris Kearns Goodwin's first book.  There's also Robert Caro's The Years of Lyndon Johnson series, which is going to ape The Last Lion as a multi-part biography of a major historical that took decades to finish.  At least this probably won't have to be finished posthumously.

If you want a really good book about a great man with a messy private life, Goodwin's No Ordinary Time is a wonderful history of FDR and Eleanor during WWII.  If/when Hillary is sworn in, I'd like to imagine Eleanor pumping her fist somewhere.

I like Goodwin but not on the subject of LBJ. She's WAY too emotionally compromised (slept with him--swears nothing happened--he told her he was in love with her, she basically wrote his autobiography etc. etc. )  A much better LBJ book is her husband's, Richard Goodwin, who worked in the Johnson WH while Johnson was having his breakdown. (Goodwin consulted a psychologist about symptoms of paranoia while, independently, Moyers was asking one about manic-depression. Johnson was an awful man. Another good, short, readable book is by his press secretary, George Reedy who idolized him on one level and despised him on another.)

[zxy556575]

5 hours ago, Queena said:

Sure was. Lincoln didn't think that Black are human, and actually wanted to send the slaves back to Africa.

Which makes the Republicans' constant refrain that they're "THE PARTY OF LINCOLN" all the more ironic.

Edited October 14, 2016 by lordonia

[needschocolate]

On 10/13/2016 at 9:46 AM, ChromaKelly said:

I am one of those people who didn't like Hillary Clinton for no real reason. I was happy when Obama came along in the 2008 election and I voted for him in the primary. I was hoping some other inspiring Democrat would join the race this year (wasn't a Bernie Sanders fan). I cast my "meh" vote for her in this year's primary. However, as this race has gone on, I've grown to admire her. She does not crack. She does not let anything get to her. Say what you want about her, but her accomplishments are impressive. She is more than qualified, she has real plans and policies and I think her never quit attitude will serve her well in the White House.

I was not a Hillary fan and it was because when she was first lady, she seemed very fake and because she stayed with Bill after the Monica Lewinsky ordeal. I could understand standing by him when it was an accusation.  I can understand her staying with him through the end of his presidency - A  president shouldn't  be going through a divorce when he is running the nation.  But I expected her to leave him after his term was over.  To me, staying with him  meant she wasn't a strong-minded woman, and that she stayed with him for the perks of being a wife of a former president.  This also meant that she was just a typical politician.

I voted for Bernie in the primary because I thought Trump may actually find something on her that would cause her to drop out and I wanted to have a back-up plan.  I didn't really want Bernie, because of his age.  If there had been more democrats int he race, I probably would have voted for one of them.  

But after seeing how she handles Trump and all the crap they throw at her, and discovering that she does actually have a good sense of humor and thinks well on her feet, I am on board.  

I will be voting for Hillary in November not because I do not want Trump but because I do want Hillary.  

Edited October 15, 2016 by needschocolate
Felt the need to clarify that a few months ago, I was planning to vote Hillary because I didn't want Trump. I was never going to vote for Trump, but now I am happy that I get to vote for someone I think is worthy rather than vote non-Trump.

[peacheslatour]

Hillary has a coalition, Trump has henchmen.

[atomationage]

11 minutes ago, needschocolate said:

To me, staying with him  meant she wasn't a strong-minded woman, and that she stayed with him for the perks of being a wife of a former president.  This also meant that she was just a typical politician.

I thought she should drop him too at one time.  Then he got sick, and I felt sorry for him.  Then I figured he probably wasn't going to live that long, but he's still alive.  There could be any number of reasons that she would stay with him.  There were probably a lot of good memories from their younger days.   They have a daughter together.  I think she did separate herself from him at the time when she was running for the Senate.  I remember Chelsea doing a White House tour for TV when the First Lady normally did that.  This was towards the end of his tenure as President.  I think Hillary was barely mentioned.  

I think of their relationship like the fictional one in Primary Colors between John Travolta and Emma Thompson.   They've inspired a lot of fiction, like Political Animals with Sigourney Weaver and Ciaran Hinds.   Coming up soon is  Graves, with Sela Ward and Nick Nolte.

[starri]

This is just pure speculation, and it's probably beneath this conversation, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I doubt very seriously there's a lot of romantic love left in the Clintons' relationship, but what they do have is clearly a lot of mutual respect and affection for each other.  They're a good team, no matter what happens behind closed doors.  Honestly, I think the idea of presidential couples that are completely devoted to each other is the exception, not the rule.  Jimmy and Roslyn, Ronnie and Nancy, and Barack and Michelle I buy.  Not so much GHWB and Barbara or GWB and Laura.

Although, my respect for Laura Bush has gone up a lot since they left the White House.

[Keepitmoving]

As long as I don't see the N- word in any email from Hillary, I'm good.  I don't care what else comes out as long as there aren't any derogatory terms used. If I continue to see this is how we should handle this group or that group, so what. She is a politician, she never said she wasn't and that's what politicians do. They sit around and try to figure out what the hell is pissing the voter off, or what we're whining about, and see if they can sell us that they have a plan to fix everyone's problems. Knowing that no way in hell will they be able to fix shit that this group is pissed off about without screwing over some other group. Not because they want to but it's just not happening, everyone is not getting what they want, period.

[Queena]

4 hours ago, Padma said:

I like Goodwin but not on the subject of LBJ. She's WAY too emotionally compromised (slept with him--swears nothing happened--he told her he was in love with her, she basically wrote his autobiography etc. etc. )  A much better LBJ book is her husband's, Richard Goodwin, who worked in the Johnson WH while Johnson was having his breakdown. (Goodwin consulted a psychologist about symptoms of paranoia while, independently, Moyers was asking one about manic-depression. Johnson was an awful man. Another good, short, readable book is by his press secretary, George Reedy who idolized him on one level and despised him on another.)

 

She slept with him.....hmm I need a book about that night. lol

[starri]

I don't think she gets enough credit for being personable. She's not the greatest at giving a stump speech, but she's really good in town halls. It seems to me that it's rare that a politician could do both.  GWB was the same way. Reagan, Bill, and Obama are good at both, but I'd say Carter and GHWB are the opposite. 

[PatsyandEddie]

There is an interview somewhere on line where she addresses her rather formal demeanour. It has something to do with being mocked in a grade school class by the teacher no less about her smile. Plus,she was a young woman in a male-dominated world so learned to hide her feelings under a "icy " outer shell. 

[Padma]

15 hours ago, Queena said:

She slept with him.....hmm I need a book about that night. lol

OT, from Clinton, but just wanted to add maybe I should have been more accurate--she said that he came into her room and climbed into her bed when she was at the ranch, post presidency. She swears nothing happened (also that he told her--another time--he was in love with her. I'm not sure he took it as seriously as she thought, though, because he was as we all know, quite a liar in pursuit of what he wanted.)!  

When I think about Johnson's arrogance--probably pathology--and Trump's, much as I hate Johnson, I -do- think of his strengths by comparison. Sadly, I can't actually think of a single thing to like or admire about Donald Trump at all.  He was kind of likable as edited on the Apprentice. But after a year of watching him campaign, he just seems like a selfish, stupid, money-grubbing monster with a good instinct for manipulating people (not a strength in and of itself.) Hillary is smart and shows empathy--and I agree with Khizr Khan that is so important in a leader. 

Back to LBJ...There IS a book about Johnson from (one of the many) women he had affairs with. The family denies it all, but seems to be true in large part at least. Funny thing is, I think Johnson with his oversized ego would have liked a lot of this book. It makes him seem like quite the amazing lover (if you can believe it) and another longtime mistress (married to the publisher of the Dallas Morning News) said the same (as documented by biographer Robert Caro): https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Morning-Madeleine-President-Johnson/dp/0941401065/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476550616&sr=8-1&keywords=texas+in+the+morning

[Padma]

I went to a Trump rally once (research). Now I get email from them all the time. This morning's was titled "I'll Get a Special Prosecutor".  Here's the email, fyi, from the man who would be our president. He really has no more to offer in his email than in his rallies.  Plus, with three weeks to go, its getting too late for ad buys and way too late for a ground game (which he doesn't have).

I think he's planning to keep the money by giving it to Eric's charity (which spends lots of its donations at DT properties, billing outrageous amounts) 

The part about the special prosecutor was also highlighted in yellow:

Friend,

Did you watch the debate on Sunday night?

I said it then, and I’m saying it again now – Hillary Clinton is all talk and NO action.

She’s the ultimate career politician, enriching herself off of the rigged system for decades while getting NOTHING accomplished.

I’m sick and tired of the failed career politicians, and I know you are too. And that’s why I’m running for our nation’s highest office – to get things done for YOU, your family, your community and our country.

I need you standing with me to WIN this election, so we can get to work and Make America Great Again – please JOIN Team Trump today.

Hillary Clinton talks a big game about all sorts of wonderful things she says she’ll do for you, but just like all career politicians it means nothing. It’s just words.

I know I can get big things done for our country, because that’s my track record.

I make things happen, and I come in ahead of schedule and under budget – from the Wollman Rink in Central Park back in 1986, to my current redevelopment of the Old Post Office building on Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, D.C.

And that’s exactly what I’ll do as President of the United States.

If I win, we’ll negotiate better trade deals and bring back jobs. We’ll cut taxes and repeal Obamacare. We’ll hunt down ISIS and wipe them out for good.

And, as I promised on Sunday, if elected I will appoint a special prosecutor to look into Crooked Hillary’s emails and get the answers the American people deserve.

We’re in the final weeks of the campaign and we can’t let up for a moment. I need you on board now more than ever.

Every contribution will help us put more ads on the air, reach more voters and WIN.

Join Team Trump today with a $100, $75, $50, $35, $20, $10 or $5 contribution.

Best wishes,

[Padma]

By the way, the room rates at Trump International are $750 - $18000 a night. How this benefits his supporters beats me.

And the Wollman Rink money was supposed to go to charity and doesn't.  What a working class hero.

[starri]

Jill Stein has a tweet last night about how much more dangerous Hillary was to world peace than Trump. 

I hate myself for this, but my (resisted) impulse was to reply "Were you dropped on your head as a child?"

[Darian]

15 minutes ago, starri said:

Jill Stein has a tweet last night about how much more dangerous Hillary was to world peace than Trump. 

I hate myself for this, but my (resisted) impulse was to reply "Were you dropped on your head as a child?"

I live in Massachusetts and have been trying to preach the truth of Jill Stein's nastiness and unfitness for elected office. I don't know her personally, but have spoken to her a few times and listened to her talk at events and read the platform some supporters say they like (will not rant will not rant willnotrant). She's a nightmare. At least my one good friend who was going to vote for her bailed when I actually brought up the platform (WILLNOTRANT) on my tablet while we were having coffee and took her through it and then Stein attacked Hillary's parenting on Mother's Day (watching the blowback was fun). 

[Landsnark]

37 minutes ago, Padma said:

She’s the ultimate career politician

Yeh.  That's why I'm voting for her. 
That's like using "liberal" as a pejorative.  Why wouldn't you want a career professional being productive in their field?
I simply do not understand Trumpsters.

[Padma]

You'd think our country is so perfect for a strong third party challenge, especially right now. It's amazing, with this excellent opportunity--and cable news really interested in giving them air time--how really BAD both Stein and Johnson are.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Padma

[Kromm]

31 minutes ago, Padma said:

You'd think our country is so perfect for a strong third party challenge, especially right now. It's amazing, with this excellent opportunity--and cable news really interested in giving them air time--how really BAD both Stein and Johnson are.

Now? With 24 days left till the election?

In 4 years maybe. Although frankly most Independent votes tend to carve out their votes from the sitting party, so it could simply hand the election to the Republicans in 2020.

[DeLurker]

On 10/13/2016 at 4:54 PM, Padma said:

Didn't keep him from saying it, though.  That's why he earned the Wash Post award for best liar of the year 2015! (He does love those superlatives!)

He's a shoe-in for 2016 too, although I contest the adjective "Best".  I don't think anyone believes him when he lies, but he doesn't let that stop him.

2 hours ago, Padma said:

I went to a Trump rally once (research).

<SNIP>

She’s the ultimate career politician, enriching herself off of the rigged system for decades while getting NOTHING accomplished.

How many hours were you in the shower after?

She's a career politician and he has no experience within any organization other than his own.  Would he put someone who has no prior business and real estate experience in control of his entire operations?  I'm guessing no.

[atomationage]

1 hour ago, Landsnark said:

That's like using "liberal" as a pejorative.

http:// Language: A Key Mechanism of Control Newt Gingrich's 1996 GOPAC memo

[InsertWordHere]

2 hours ago, Padma said:

You'd think our country is so perfect for a strong third party challenge, especially right now. It's amazing, with this excellent opportunity--and cable news really interested in giving them air time--how really BAD both Stein and Johnson are.

Kind or makes me wonder how someone like Perot would be doing right now. I doubt he would win, but he might have been able to beat Trump while Clinton came out with the most popular votes. Or would Perot not have made it anywhere against the flashier Trump? 

[ruby24]

9 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

Kind or makes me wonder how someone like Perot would be doing right now. I doubt he would win, but he might have been able to beat Trump while Clinton came out with the most popular votes. Or would Perot not have made it anywhere against the flashier Trump? 

This kind of hypothetical is almost impossible to get into, because elections are just as much about the times as well. Perot caught on at the time that he did, Trump caught on with his voters at the time that he did- in the immediate aftermath of our first black president, who is very popular and whose presidency was remarkably successful, and in anticipation of our first female president. That context cannot be ignored. This is who Republican voters chose as an expression of their outrage, and there is no evidence that it's about economics or policy, as I posted above. It's predominantly about white male cultural resentment.

It's hard to say if someone like Perot would have made a dent now. He may have just been at Johnson levels of support, since that seems to be entirely about a protest vote (and I'm not totally sure Johnson/Stein will end up with those levels of support by the end anyway- that's a question mark too).

[Ohwell]

On 10/12/2016 at 0:09 AM, pivot said:

I find nothing more annoying than the excuse that the only reason anyone could hate Hillary is because she is a woman. Her gender has nothing to do with why so many people hate her. Had Kristin Gillibrand, Claire McCaskill, Amy Klobuchar, or Elizabeth Warren run instead of Hillary, none of them would have the worst trustworthy #s in history or the 2nd worst approval numbers of all time. People hate Hillary because she is a compulsive liar who lies about things big and small from her multiple email lies, her NAFTA lies, her lies on child refugees from Central America, the bankruptcy bill she voted for, Bosnia Sniper Fire, her name, her father's non-existent scholarship, her grandparents' immigration history, etc. She lies all the time and I find it insulting. 

She also has terrible foreign policy judgment. From backing the Iraq War to not wanting to negotiate with Iran (back in the Obama/Hillary primary) to her wanting to arm rebels in Syria before we knew who to side with to a no-fly zone in Syria to her half-assed Libya intervention. She has terrible judgment.

Her crappy record of accomplishments. She has a great PR team but there is a reason she has run for president twice now on the accomplishments of other people. In her first run, she ran on many of her husband's work on the Irish Peace Treaty along with other items that she had nothing to do with. She got called out by everyone from Chris Dodd to John Rockafeller to Ted Kennedy to George Mitchell for exaggerating her role and stealing credit from their work. As a Senator, she was the sponor on 3 bills that passed. She was a co-sponsor on many things but that meant other Senators did the heavy lifting and she took the credit. Obama got more done in 1/2 the time of her in the Senate yet she called him inexperienced. As SOS, she was average at best with few real accomplishments. She failed at a climate deal. She failed at getting the Iran Deal done. She ignored Latin America for the most part but managed to help an illegal coup in Honduras against Obama's orders. 

But, what I really hate about her is that she ran one of the most racist and ugly campaigns I've ever seen against Obama. Her campaign called him a drug dealer, implied he was unAmerican and a Muslim. She played on fears that he was an innercity gun grabber. She was called out by almost everyone in the Democratic Party for her campaign's disgusting rhetoric towards the Obamas'. She then tried to cheat her way into the nomination by getting MI/FL delegates seated and had to be convinced to actually concede by a group of elder AA statesmen. The Obamas have obviously forgiven her for it but I am a firm believer in the saying that you see the real character of someone when they are at their lowest moments. Hillary showed her true character when she lost the primary to Obama and it was ugly.

Let the church say AMEN!

[ariel]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Let the church say AMEN!

Not my church.

[Ohwell]

2 minutes ago, ariel said:

Not my church.

It's perfectly fine to attend different churches.  Amen.

[Pixel]

On 10/14/2016 at 6:41 PM, needschocolate said:

I was not a Hillary fan and it was because when she was first lady, she seemed very fake and because she stayed with Bill after the Monica Lewinsky ordeal. I could understand standing by him when it was an accusation.  I can understand her staying with him through the end of his presidency - A  president shouldn't  be going through a divorce when he is running the nation.  But I expected her to leave him after his term was over.  To me, staying with him  meant she wasn't a strong-minded woman, and that she stayed with him for the perks of being a wife of a former president.  This also meant that she was just a typical politician.

I voted for Bernie in the primary because I thought Trump may actually find something on her that would cause her to drop out and I wanted to have a back-up plan.  I didn't really want Bernie, because of his age.  If there had been more democrats int he race, I probably would have voted for one of them.  

But after seeing how she handles Trump and all the crap they throw at her, and discovering that she does actually have a good sense of humor and thinks well on her feet, I am on board.  

I will be voting for Hillary in November not because I do not want Trump but because I do want Hillary.  

This pretty much is also my path from accepting Hillary to liking her.