S13.E03: I Ain't No Miracle Worker

[Gladrags]

6 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

Also, Meredith is looking worse in this stupid love triangle with each passing episode. And it's a bummer that making Maggie the annoying piece of this puzzle is actually making viewers dislike her instead of Meredith, who is actually 100% in the wrong. She wouldn't be in said position had she been honest from the get go, but now she's let the hiding go on for too long with Maggie having given her many opportunities to speak up. How or why Meredith and Meredith/Nathan should come out the winners in this dumb story arc, I'll never know. But that is where it's building to. 

And when the excrement hits the oscillating device, the show will try to make Maggie seem like the fool for her unrequited crush, instead of Meredith being a self-involved, bad sister for not telling Maggie right away what was going on. 

Get Maggie back together with DeLuca - they were cute, light and fresh. No angst, no lurking drama, no ghosts of previous relationships. It was so un-Grey's -- and I liked it! 

[photo fox]

57 minutes ago, marceline said:

This whole triangle is ridiculous. I feel like I'm watching "Saved By The Bell." Maggie, needs to grow the hell up.

I agree it's ridiculous, but I'd argue it's Meredith who needs to grow the hell up and tell her the truth already.

[Madding crowd]

The Meredith/Maggie stuff is truly going the way of the sitcom. So if Riggs acted liked a complete jerk during his date with Maggie, then went back to being his regular self and continued to see Meredith, wouldn't Maggie suspect something was going on? I wish Riggs would just tell Meredith, OK, you don't like me-I won't ask again. I really dislike story lines where someone has to practically beg the star of the show for some attention. Most guys might be intrigued at first, but eventually he would realize there are other women out there who actually like him.

April being in the ER with a small baby and Alex coming in only for supplies was one of the worst shoehorning I've seen yet. April of all people would not expose her baby to germs in the ER. Other than that: I liked the look DeLuca gave Arizona when he realized she was not turned against him. And, I also hate it when doctors talk about either personal things or the patient with the patient lying right there. Even in a coma situation, you don't know what a patient may hear. I thought the whole funeral story was kind of annoying really, but the episode had it's moments.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Madding crowd
spell check made a strange change

[pieinmyeye]

13 hours ago, maraleia said:

Where in the hell are Meredith's kids??? That is all!

Preschool boarding school?

[Chicken Wing]

I wouldn't care about Meredith's kids' whereabouts so much if the show would just bother to come up with an explanation as to why we never see them, where they are, who looks after them. Even "I Love Lucy" had the wherewithal to invent a neighbor lady to serve as a baby-sitter for Little Ricky so they had a default answer for his whereabouts: "Mrs. Trumbull's watching him." "I just dropped the baby with Mrs. Trumbull." We don't see Little Ricky at any point in the episode? Assume Mrs. Trumbull is watching him. We see Meredith at home in the mornings, in the evenings, and we see her commute to work, but there has yet to be an explanation for what her kids do during these times that, logically, they ought to be around for. Who's taking Zola and Bailey to school, who's taking Ellis to daycare, if Meredith is driving to work without them? Just invent a nanny already, because without that default answer it just looks like lazy writing.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[Biggie B]

  ^^^ Seriously, how hard is it to include one throwaway line as to where the kids are or who's got them? Jeez. Apparently it IS too much for the Grey's writers!

[Primetimer]

And how is it that we only get one 'Jesus Wept' reference? And other pressing questions sparked by a miraculous episode.

View the full article

[thewhiteowl]

18 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

I wouldn't care about Meredith's kids' whereabouts so much if the show would just bother to come up with an explanation as to why we never see them, where they are, who looks after them. Even "I Love Lucy" had the wherewithal to invent a neighbor lady to serve as a baby-sitter for Little Ricky so they had a default answer for his whereabouts: "Mrs. Trumbull's watching him." "I just dropped the baby with Mrs. Trumbull." We don't see Little Ricky at any point in the episode? Assume Mrs. Trumbull is watching him. We see Meredith at home in the mornings, in the evenings, and we see her commute to work, but there has yet to be an explanation for what her kids do during these times that, logically, they ought to be around for. Who's taking Zola and Bailey to school, who's taking Ellis to daycare, if Meredith is driving to work without them? Just invent a nanny already, because without that default answer it just looks like lazy writing.

Oddly enough I can make that assumption with out the writers telling me. But okay. This episode would have been the perfect place to put a line like that because it wasn't full of much of anything else.  Kind of fillerish to me. The biggest problem for me with the Arizona/Alex scene was him not even mentioning that he thought Deluca was attacking Jo. If he really thought that wouldn't it be his first defense? Not wah, poor me, I screwed up again. Although he went to far, it would be perfectly understandable that it happened.

Bailey annoyed me. She is sooo important and busy now she can't deal with her son? That's crap and just a plot point to give Ben something to do. I did like the way Ben handled it though.

Stephanie obviously inherited Lexie and Izzy's run of the mouth disease. Really how many times should a resident be told to shut the hell up? But that's typical Grey's.

The next time we see April she will probably be having another emotional break down about NOT spending time with Harriet. Jeez, the girl is never satisfied. lol

[taanja]

12 hours ago, upperco said:

The tonal fluctuations and contrivances in the primary medical case reminded a lot of the show's middle era. This was classic average Grey's, but with a template that we haven't seen in a while. I can't say that I missed it (or Arizona, for that matter), but there's been a lot worse over the past ten years and too many offerings with far fewer moments of genuine character-oriented storytelling. 

Thank you. For me it was the kind of episode that irritates me and has made me quite watching. Have any of these writers ever been n a real hospital? Ever?

The SURGEON-- not a nurse mind you but a surgeon (Amelia) looking up the injuries of patients in front of a woman who says she's the mother (how does Amelia know this?) and then blithely informing the woman of all their injuries had me going ---patient confidentiality anyone???? and then the blabbing to the family that it was the long lost daughter/sister who caused the accident. and then blabbing to the long lost daughter that the family had been informed while the patient was in the middle of a procedure! Oy. This show.

I liked the Mere and her new boy toy moments--- brief though they were but the new annoying sister thing is...annoying.

[gonewiththeschwinn]

Speaking as someone who has had a baby in the last year, I actually felt like April's boredom  rang extremely true. There are people that adore the newborn period and float through it and there are others that find it quite isolating. I think she's fully appreciative of her miracle baby, but she's gone from being someone that leads an extremely active lifestyle (trauma surgeon) to sitting around the house all day with someone that can't even talk. I actually think this makes sense with the timeline - she probably had a lot of support, people stopping by to help and now everyone's back at work without her. 

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, Chas411 said:

Jo never had parents she was abandoned as a child. I thought the forgiveness angle was more aimed towards her and Alex but I have to say retconning a husband is one thing but if they were to retcon her parents back into it then that's just plain character assassination. 

Yeah, but the only information we have about Jo is what Jo has told us (Alex).  So conceivably the foster care thing could also be as much fiction as her name.

[thewhiteowl]

6 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Yeah, but the only information we have about Jo is what Jo has told us (Alex).  So conceivably the foster care thing could also be as much fiction as her name.

True, and that's the huge problem with being branded a liar. Everything she has ever said is now suspect. That's a good reason to want to keep her secret. 

[Nobodysfan]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

The Meredith/Maggie stuff is truly going the way of the sitcom. So if Riggs acted liked a complete jerk during his date with Maggie, then went back to being his regular self and continued to see Meredith, wouldn't Maggie suspect something was going on? I wish Riggs would just tell Meredith, OK, you don't like me-I won't ask again. I really dislike story lines where someone has to practically beg the star of the show for some attention. Most guys might be intrigued at first, but eventually he would realize there are other women out there who actually like him.

 

I so agree with you. When will Nathan open his eyes??? Why is he begging for her attention? Where is his dignity?

Meredith is playing with him and Maggie, they are the real victims of her intrigues.

What was that with Meredith telling Nathan to go on a date and be a jerk to Maggie???

[Lesia]

Harriet will go the way of Meredith's kids.  She won't be heard from again.  Pregnancies are always a plot line, then the kids come and then they disappear.

Maggie is so immature I can't stand it. 

[Nobodysfan]

2 hours ago, Biggie B said:

I found it moderately interesting when Arizona pointed out to Owen that he (Owen) basically faced no repercussion from punching out Riggs, whereas Alex is in a bit of hot water.

Agree with everyone that the longer it takes Maggie to find out that Meredith and Riggs got a thing sort of going on, the worse it will be. Meredith and Riggs need to shit or get off the pot - either get into the relationship or don't, stop dancing around each other like two mindless ninnies. I did like that brief scene when they both divulged that they "see" or dream about their deceased loved ones; that was a moment of clarity that I appreciated. It seemed real and true, and intimate. More of that, for heaven's sake, and DO NOT have Riggs go on a date with Maggie for the sole purpose of making himself seem undesirable - please, that's something out of a very bad sitcom. And if he DID do that...you know Maggie would be charmed and be even more attracted to him than ever, bad breath and fake rudeness aside!

Do you actually think he will consider it and go on a date with Maggie following Meredith´s instructions??? 

[taanja]

6 minutes ago, thewhiteowl said:

True, and that's the huge problem with being branded a liar. Everything she has ever said is now suspect. That's a good reason to want to keep her secret. 

Exactly! So many questions. But can any of her answers really be believed?

[tapplum]

2 minutes ago, Nobodysfan said:

What was that with Meredith telling Nathan to go on a date and be a jerk to Maggie???

That scene read to me as Meredith joking? Certainly it was silly and not in good taste, but that could be said for the entire conversation. It never for a moment seemed to me she meant it seriously, or that Nathan thought she did.

Then again, I might be expecting too much of the writers.

[Nobodysfan]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I suspect they're trying for this:  Meredith is using Maggie's infatuation as an excuse to distance herself from Riggs even though she's falling for him because she's still broken up about Derek and is reluctant to get into a relationship. 

I can't think of any other reason why Meredith wants to make a fool out of Maggie this way. 

If I were Riggs, Meredith's behavior would be such a turn-off and I'd run far away from the crazy.  Being Grey's, I'm sure her middle school behavior is part of his attraction for her.

Exactly.

[izabella]

11 minutes ago, Nobodysfan said:

Do you actually think he will consider it and go on a date with Maggie following Meredith´s instructions??? 

I'm hoping he does go out with Maggie and realizes she is just what he's been looking for all his life and Meredith was just a fleeting fancy.  And the ONLY reason I'm hoping for that is because of Meredith's snake in the grass behavior.

[Nobodysfan]

23 minutes ago, izabella said:

I'm hoping he does go out with Maggie and realizes she is just what he's been looking for all his life and Meredith was just a fleeting fancy.  And the ONLY reason I'm hoping for that is because of Meredith's snake in the grass behavior.

From your words to the writers´ pens!!!

Nathan and Maggie actually act like two adults when they are together. I like their scenes.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Nobodysfan

[Chas411]

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Yeah, but the only information we have about Jo is what Jo has told us (Alex).  So conceivably the foster care thing could also be as much fiction as her name.

Yeah but it's complete laziness on the writers behalf. The husband part of the storyline is already such a blatant afterthought because they needed a cliffhanger. Making her whole background a lie just seems like the laziest way of admitting they just lost interest in the character and couldn't be bothered in giving her a decent send off. Plus I know actually liking the character is a huge minority in here but for the fans who enjoyed her and the Jolex relationship it's a bit lame to make the past 5 seasons a total sham.

i can't see the writers stooping that low, not yet anyway.

[iMonrey]

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Speaking as someone who has had a baby in the last year, I actually felt like April's boredom  rang extremely true. 

Maybe so but did you spend a whole year beforehand whining about wanting a baby? And then turn around and start whining about being bored ten seconds after it was born? {/end of weekly April Is Insufferable Rant.}

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I found it moderately interesting when Arizona pointed out to Owen that he (Owen) basically faced no repercussion from punching out Riggs, whereas Alex is in a bit of hot water.

It also illustrated the improbability of Alex's situation. Granted I don't know how it works legally, but professionally there should have been some sort of mandatory arbitration at the hospital between Alex and DeLuca monitored by Bailey. It seems like the whole situation skipped over a whole bunch of steps. Does DeLuca even understand that Alex was under the impression he was taking advantage of Jo? How are they even allowed to work in the same hospital - shouldn't Alex have been suspended after being charged with a felony? None of this makes any sense. Moving him to the clinic accomplishes nothing. I would assume most people who work with them think DeLuca should drop the charges against him and I'm not even clear if DeLuca ever had that choice or if the whole thing was out of his hands.

If he told his attorney (which - when did he hire an attorney??) he wanted to press felony charges against Alex, then yes - I understand why people would be mad at DeLuca. What Alex did was wrong and horrible but it was a mistake. But if this whole thing is out of DeLuca's hands because Alex confessed, was arrested for assault and the DA decided to press felony charges, then none of it's DeLuca's fault and nobody should be mad at him. (But then again - why would he have an attorney?)

I don't have much use for Stephanie but I did get a kick out of her exclaiming "I love my job!" when the dead woman sat up. I also thought Ben handled the Tucker situation brilliantly. 

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Is it me or do they redesign the exterior of the hospital, like, every other episode?

It's not you, they have changed exteriors for that hospital at least three times (probably more) in the past 13 seasons. I saw the pilot episode awhile back and was flabbergasted at how different everything looked.

[windsprints]

I thought the episode was a bit filler-ish but still good. It felt like an episode that would air after a short break, one to catch people up on where each character is at but not really do all that much to really drive the story ahead.

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It's always amusing, almost infuriatingly so, the way this show cherry picks which characters' transgressions are worthy of condemnation and which ones are swept under the rug. Still, though, in this case it's not really the same thing. Owen punching Riggs once in the face, or Derek punching Mark once in the face that time years ago, etc. -- it was one punch. Still something that someone could have pressed charges over -- simple battery or something -- but nowhere near the level of assault that Alex leveled on DeLuca.

 She should have used Jackson pummeling Alex (at 1:51) until people pulled him off if she wanted a closer example.  Alex is being treated more harshly but I'm ok with it because Alex has skated by in the past too (Alex beating Shane in the hospital).  I want some kind of consequence. It won't be real life level (which clearly works on this show) so he'll still be in the story. I'm holding onto hope that its going to be an interesting storyline as it plays out.

I liked how Arizona handled being in the middle. She didn't excuse Alex's behavior yet was still there for him while also being there for DeLuca.  I agree with others - I've found it odd that we haven't seen anyone really be in DeLuca's corner. I guess its because his relationship with most of the characters is non-existent.  I thought we would see more from Maggie but she's too busy talking about sex and fretting over her middle school crush.

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I did like that brief scene when they both divulged that they "see" or dream about their deceased loved ones; that was a moment of clarity that I appreciated. It seemed real and true, and intimate.

 I liked that scene as well. I dislike Meredith but I was interested in her post-Derek storyline. Its too bad they didn't build a story about 2 people coming together after losing a spouse/great love.  I suppose they thought this triangle was more in line with Meredith's personality traits.  I have zero interest in this triangle and its bringing much of what I dislike about Meredith to the forefront.  Maggie grates on my nerves but she's in no way at fault here.  She may act like a child emotionally but she's also been shown to truly care about Meredith and being her sister means something to her. I cannot imagine Maggie having done anything to stand in the way of her widowed sister moving on with Riggs had Meredith told her right away. She may have been awkward and rambled on about finding love but she would have quickly gotten to a place of being happy for her sister IMO.

Quote

Oddly enough I can make that assumption with out the writers telling me. I don't need (or want) any continual mentions of Meredith's kids either.

The problem for me is that they have made it clear there is no nanny and then keep putting Meredith in scenes that leave you wondering where the hell the kids are. It would be easy to avoid. They could have had her hire a nanny then have 1 line per season where she mentions it in passing. Have Maggie drive the carpool so its not obvious that there's no car seats in a car that belongs to a mother of 3. Don't have people smashing walls while kids are sleeping and then not have a peep from the kids, etc.  Its just annoying, more of a joke to me at this point.  What I do find baffling is that they have a character who had non-stop mommy/daddy issues for 7+ seasons who has children and then ........... nothing. No exploration of how her childhood impacts her as a parent. No exploration of her becoming a single parent like her mother. No worries about her children growing up without a father. I honestly don't get why they ever made Meredith a mother.

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I thought the forgiveness angle was more aimed towards her and Alex

That's how I took it as well.  

[Joana]

I don't see how Alex could have fit in in that particular context. They weren't talking about forgiveness in general, it was clear they referred to forgiveness within family. What Arizona said was "Of course she'll forgive you, she's your mother." I did find it odd that Jo would have an issue with it to that extent. Now, you could argue that it's precisely because she didn't have a family she would refer to Alex in that context (as being her family now), but I think she's far too socially apt not to be able to make that distinction.

I dunno, it felt somehow out of place. It did cross my mind they were setting up another retcon and a way to bring Jo's parents in the story in some way. But most likely it didn't really mean anything. 

[DearEvette]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If he told his attorney (which - when did he hire an attorney??) he wanted to press felony charges against Alex, then yes - I understand why people would be mad at DeLuca. What Alex did was wrong and horrible but it was a mistake. But if this whole thing is out of DeLuca's hands because Alex confessed, was arrested for assault and the DA decided to press felony charges, then none of it's DeLuca's fault and nobody should be mad at him. (But then again - why would he have an attorney?)

I only know about the law what I see on tv -- so there you go -- but I don't think it is up to the victim to decide how to charge the perpetrator.  I would think that is completely the DAs decision.  I think the limit of the victim's choice is that they go to the cops to report the crime, they want to press charges.  But that feels like it is moot, because Alex was arrested even before DeLuca got out of the hospital.  And I would think the severity of his beating is what led the DA to the felony.

At any rate, nobody should be mad at DeLuca for anything.  He was the least to blame for any single thing that went down in that room.  If nobody is blaming Jo for anything then nobody should be prepared to blame him.  It doesn't matter if they buy that Alex thought he was protecting Jo,  the minute they all knew he was mistaken and whaled on a guy for helping his girlfriend, any thoughts they might have had of blaming DeLuca should fly out the window. 

I think this is what absolutely infuriates me about this storyline.  Can you imagine if DeLuca had been a female who had gotten assaulted and she was being treated as cavalierly as he is?  And everyone rallying around the person who beat her up rather than showing her some concern?  It is just shitty storytelling.  All those interns last year and not one of them is by his side as his friend?  Lets saddle Maggie with this stupid triangle and not allow her to go to him.  Or hey, what about Webber?  Not even a scene with Weber who had started to develop a relationship with him both as Maggie's boyfriend and Arizona's housemate.  Just because he's no longer dating Maggie doesn't mean that they couldn't have built on that outside of her.  Just bad form all around.

[Deanie87]

43 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

Yeah but it's complete laziness on the writers behalf. The husband part of the storyline is already such a blatant afterthought because they needed a cliffhanger. Making her whole background a lie just seems like the laziest way of admitting they just lost interest in the character and couldn't be bothered in giving her a decent send off. Plus I know actually liking the character is a huge minority in here but for the fans who enjoyed her and the Jolex relationship it's a bit lame to make the past 5 seasons a total sham.

i can't see the writers stooping that low, not yet anyway.

I don't think that they are going to retcon her past anymore than they already have, but they seriously need to get on with this shit.  I would rather not see Jo in an episode at all than have her show up for one or two scenes, spout some ambiguous, cryptic crap that may or may not relate to her or the patient or DeLuca or Alex, or the ghost of fucking George O'Malley.  They need to get to her part of the story sooner rather than later, and I mean really get to it, not just a line here or there can be construed any way the wind is blowing (which is usually, "God that Jo is a whiny, lying bitch.") The longer they draw this stupid secret out, but at the same time not mention it at all, the worse her character looks.  I generally like Jo, but the time for all of this was seasons ago, and either they need  to make her character consistent and honestly get to the bottom of her situation so that we can all move forward, or they need this to be her farewell storyline.  I hate to say that because I am one of the few that think that her story could be a really interesting one, but I am still not seeing any sign that the writers have any kind of handle on her character or her character's motivations.  If they are going to have her onscreen during the episodes that aren't really about her, then they need to keep her lines medical or for comic relief.  They have screwed her up too much to let her coast on these dumb comments in the episodes where her "storylines" are not featured. Its too late to have her suddenly become all sensitive about a patient wanting to punch their female tumor or caring whether or not a family forgives each other.  She never cared before, we don't know it means and it just makes everything worse.

I haven't minded that the kids are never mentioned this season.  The only time it bothers me is when Meredith is going on and on about how tired she is because she is the single mother of three, etc. etc. Thankfully, we haven't gotten any of that this season.

Maggie would be so much better served visiting DeLuca, mentoring an intern or resident, or actively hating Alex than she is here.  This triangle is doing no one any favors whatsoever.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Deanie87

[tapplum]

16 minutes ago, windsprints said:

 What I do find baffling is that they have a character who had non-stop mommy/daddy issues for 7+ seasons who has children and then ........... nothing. No exploration of how her childhood impacts her as a parent. No exploration of her becoming a single parent like her mother. No worries about her children growing up without a father. I honestly don't get why they ever made Meredith a mother.
 

Yes to all of this. Meredith's mummy issues were such a huge part of her character, and it's such a waste that they're just...gone, now that it'd actually make sense to mine them for a storyline. I mean the kids are there, might as well use them for something. I'm one of the viewers that don't need to see them at all, but what's the point of even introducing them to the story if they're not even used to explore the adult characters the show's actually about? I think it was someone one this forum who suggested a storyline about Meredith regretting having kids - now  *that* I would have believed in, been interested in, and would have loved to watch.

Unfortunately liking Maggie less and less. It's so painfully obvious that she doesn't know Meredith at all. Really she and Amelia both and their neverending insistence on sisterhood just highlights how alone Meredith is now, with Cristina and Derek gone. Meredith leaving the hospital with Maggie this episode wasn't two sisters or friends talking as equals, it was a tired mother indulging her immature child. Last episode, when she was real and human with Alex and then immediately shut down the second Maggie entered the room was even clearer. They're not her people, and it's ridiculous and baffling both that they keep trying to be and that Meredith keeps letting them. The show had it right with the "I'm your sister!" "No you're not, Cristina is my sister" argument, and I wish they'd stick with it.

[Chas411]

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 or they need this to be her farewell storyline.  

I'm starting to think that's where this is headed. It gets clearer with each episode that the writers have little to no interest in her or giving her much development. Another new character will arrive in after her and get more development it's already happened with Maggie and Penney. It's so frustrating.

[moonorchid]

What kills me the most about this stupid triangle is it's only purpose is to be a road block for mer and Riggs. The side effect of that is its continually forcing a relationship that isn't genuine. Maggie's insistence on Meredith being the "sister" she's defined in her mind just shows how much Maggie doesn't know Meredith and how much Meredith truly doesn't care about Maggie. 

Honestly, Amelia and Maggie have a better vibe that Meredith with either of them and I wish their scenes together could have been more than bitching about how Meredith isn't there for Maggie. 

If it weren't for this stupid triangle, Amelia and Maggie would be going on about being sex rich and sex poor and Meredith could be an ally for Alex during his dark time and everything would feel more natural and organic than what's being presented.

On April, it doesn't bother me that type A personality April Kepner thinks watching a baby sleep is boring and missss her work as a trauma surgeon. Amazingly, people do have conflicting feelings on things like babies. Last week she was days out of having her newborn cut out of her, so yes she got upset and cried a lot. It's called hormones on top of the overly emotional person April (for the most part is), and Jackson probably understands this cause he too would be bored as hell staying home with a baby. 

[moonorchid]

I actually like the Ben and bailey storyline but something struck me when bailey was kind of waving  tuck off to her office for a while...maybe a cause the earlier seasons are a little fresh but isn't this why her first husband started to become really upset with her. That her work was always being chosen first? I don't know if that is what she was doing here or just putting off something she knew she wouldn't like (punishing tuck) but it really struck me that for all we know...nothing has changed with bailey. Except now she's deputized her 2nd husband to parent Tuck.

[RachelKM]

On 10/6/2016 at 6:58 PM, Rose-1 said:

The first 3 minutes and Maggie is already pissing me off with her WHINING and selfishness. FFS how she's forgotten how Alex's life is in flames right now, unbelievable. 

OMG! I generally enjoy Maggie far more than most, but I seriously wanted to slap her during the carpool to work scene.  How freaking self-absorbed is she?  And to be honest, if that was the supposed example of "Meredith doesn't want to listen to me" Maggie was griping about, FUCK U MAGS!  For reals, I think we are supposed to think Mer has been changing the subject or dismissive because she doesn't want to talk about it due to her secret.  But the actual example we got was one in which I would have told my sister or brother to get his or her head out of said sibling own ass long enough to maybe remember someone else's issues are more pressing.

All of that said, Mer is really annoying the shit out of me with this secret stuff and more so plotting ways for Riggs to put Maggie off.  What the hell is that?  So what?  Riggs stymies Maggie's interest through falsehoods and then eventually Mer and Riggs date openly and Maggie is too dumb to put it together or to notice the Riggs dating her sister does not seem to have bad breath or act in an obnoxious off putting manner anymore?  I realize Maggie has been shown to be socially obtuse, but I doubt even she is that blind. 

Otherwise, I liked the episode.  Glad Arizona is back and I thought she addressed both Deluca and Alex perfectly.  She loves Alex.  But she cares about Deluca and does not begrudge him his anger or right to pursue it, which is simple respect for him as a person and what happened to him.  Glad to see it.

It was also nice to see Jen Lilley.

Edited October 8, 2016 by RachelKM

[iMonrey]

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I don't think it is up to the victim to decide how to charge the perpetrator.  I would think that is completely the DAs decision.  I think the limit of the victim's choice is that they go to the cops to report the crime, they want to press charges.  But that feels like it is moot, because Alex was arrested even before DeLuca got out of the hospital.  And I would think the severity of his beating is what led the DA to the felony.

Maybe I mistook the DA or ADA for DeLuca's attorney during the courtroom hearing. It was just weird because he was standing there with a representative on one side and Alex was standing with his own lawyer on another. But . . . I don't know why there would be a hearing if the DA decided to press felony charges and why DeLuca would be standing there next to the DA while it took place. It seemed more like DeLuca's attorney was pressing for a felony charge and going before a judge, who accepted/entered the charge. 

Maybe the show should stick to the medical drama and lay off the courtroom stuff.

Edited October 7, 2016 by iMonrey

[toomuchtv47]

3 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

Oddly enough I can make that assumption with out the writers telling me. But okay. This episode would have been the perfect place to put a line like that because it wasn't full of much of anything else.  Kind of fillerish to me. The biggest problem for me with the Arizona/Alex scene was him not even mentioning that he thought Deluca was attacking Jo. If he really thought that wouldn't it be his first defense? Not wah, poor me, I screwed up again. Although he went to far, it would be perfectly understandable that it happened.

The whole fact that no one (that I can recall) has said anything about Alex believing Jo was being attacked is really getting under my skin.  In no way should Alex be let off the hook for what he did, but he didn't just walk up to Deluca and beat the living crap out of him.  Alex walked in and saw his semi unconscious girlfriend half on the bed with Deluca over her.  Should he have asked what was going on or tried to keep his temper in check?  Of course but this is Grey's and I can't begin to understand the brains of the writers.  It's like Alex knows he screwed up royally and is taking all the punishment for everything he's ever done in his life.  I"m an Alex fan but I like Deluca too and I just feel so bad for both of them in different ways.

[politichick]

2 hours ago, tapplum said:

Unfortunately liking Maggie less and less. It's so painfully obvious that she doesn't know Meredith at all. Really she and Amelia both and their neverending insistence on sisterhood just highlights how alone Meredith is now, with Cristina and Derek gone. Meredith leaving the hospital with Maggie this episode wasn't two sisters or friends talking as equals, it was a tired mother indulging her immature child. Last episode, when she was real and human with Alex and then immediately shut down the second Maggie entered the room was even clearer. They're not her people, and it's ridiculous and baffling both that they keep trying to be and that Meredith keeps letting them. The show had it right with the "I'm your sister!" "No you're not, Cristina is my sister" argument, and I wish they'd stick with it.

I totally agree with this. They have known each other for so little time that Maggie baffles me with her "You're not acting like a sister" or "sisters don't/do [fill in the blank]" as if she would fucking know. She has the emotional maturity of a seven-year-old. If I were Meredith I'd tell her to shut the hell up, she took her shot and was shot down. He's not into her and she needs to stop whingeing about it all the time. It is utterly annoying. Amelia is also annoying. She's Meredith's dead husband's sister, not Meredith's. They are not her people at all. I miss Christina Yang.

[Deanie87]

13 minutes ago, toomuchtv47 said:

The whole fact that no one (that I can recall) has said anything about Alex believing Jo was being attacked is really getting under my skin.  In no way should Alex be let off the hook for what he did, but he didn't just walk up to Deluca and beat the living crap out of him.  Alex walked in and saw his semi unconscious girlfriend half on the bed with Deluca over her.  Should he have asked what was going on or tried to keep his temper in check?  Of course but this is Grey's and I can't begin to understand the brains of the writers.  It's like Alex knows he screwed up royally and is taking all the punishment for everything he's ever done in his life.  I"m an Alex fan but I like Deluca too and I just feel so bad for both of them in different ways.

I think its because its possible that this isn't what happened, at least not completely.  After all, Jo was laughing when he barged in the room, not crying or seemingly scared.  Sure, she was drunk and DeLuca would have been taking advantage, but I just don't see how Alex assumed actual rape or assault.  I love Alex too, but he went from "I was protecting Jo" to basically calling her a cheating slut and then telling her she was incapable of love verrrry fast.  I think he just lost his mind and in the aftermath, even he isn't sure what he saw or what his motivations were.  Now, maybe he is trying to convince himself that this was his reasoning so that he can live with what he did, but he isn't shouting it from the rooftops because he isn't entirely sure of his own motivations.  I think that Meredith and Jo realize this too, which is why both were/are angry at him and aren't using the protection angle as an excuse.  Maybe some of this will come out in the trial.

[Joana]

9 minutes ago, toomuchtv47 said:

 In no way should Alex be let off the hook for what he did, but he didn't just walk up to Deluca and beat the living crap out of him.  

Well, except that it's pretty much exactly what happened there. There's no way Alex could have known that Jo was semi-unconscious. He didn't even see her. He saw DeLuca in what could have been interpreted as a sexual position and he heard Jo giggling, so he deducted they must have been going at it. He simply did not have any information that would reasonably lead him to believe Jo was being attacked. Be it as it may, she was not in any immediate danger as soon as he stepped inside the apartment as DeLuca stepped back instantly. If the show insists that he really thought it was protecting Jo and everyone goes along with it, it would be letting him off the hook.

It's still too early to judge how the storyline is going, but the one thing I really, really need to happen is Alex to be truly sorry for what he did. Not being sorry for himself or that his career is going to suffer (that's where Ben's storyline in the previous season failed miserably IMO, as he didn't seem at all concerned that a woman and her unborn child died because of what did and instead was upset because he couldn't work and his wife no longer trusted him), but to actually recognize and ackownledge how much wrong he has done a completely innocent person, own it and then take it from there. 

[izabella]

I need Alex to feel sorry for hurting DeLucca AND get his ass to a psychiatrist to actually address his anger management and emotional issues so he doesn't assault someone else in a blind rage.

[Coxfires]

I agree with it. He can't undo what happened but I wish we will see him be directed to therapy. I understood why he didn't want another, albeit deserved, lecture from Arizona (it was pretty realistic, no one likes to be reminded that they screwed up) because it won't change anything.

I took his dismissive remark about DeLuca more as a way to deflect and avoid the conversation than a real dig at the guy. It was him trying to run away from the discussion rather than facing his mentor be pissed at him.

Now he has to face the consequences of his actions but most importantly really trying to work on his anger issues. 

I also don't understand why people would be so shitty on DeLuca and was glad to see Arizona show him the compassion he deserves. He is a victim who has done nothing wrong and was right to press charges 

Meredith is getting ridiculous with the whole Not-Triangle issue.

[Rose-1]

3 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

I don't think that they are going to retcon her past anymore than they already have, but they seriously need to get on with this shit.  I would rather not see Jo in an episode at all than have her show up for one or two scenes, spout some ambiguous, cryptic crap that may or may not relate to her or the patient or DeLuca or Alex, or the ghost of fucking George O'Malley.  They need to get to her part of the story sooner rather than later, and I mean really get to it, not just a line here or there can be construed any way the wind is blowing (which is usually, "God that Jo is a whiny, lying bitch.") The longer they draw this stupid secret out, but at the same time not mention it at all, the worse her character looks.  I generally like Jo, but the time for all of this was seasons ago, and either they need  to make her character consistent and honestly get to the bottom of her situation so that we can all move forward, or they need this to be her farewell storyline.  I hate to say that because I am one of the few that think that her story could be a really interesting one, but I am still not seeing any sign that the writers have any kind of handle on her character or her character's motivations.  If they are going to have her onscreen during the episodes that aren't really about her, then they need to keep her lines medical or for comic relief.  They have screwed her up too much to let her coast on these dumb comments in the episodes where her "storylines" are not featured. Its too late to have her suddenly become all sensitive about a patient wanting to punch their female tumor or caring whether or not a family forgives each other.  She never cared before, we don't know it means and it just makes everything worse.

I haven't minded that the kids are never mentioned this season.  The only time it bothers me is when Meredith is going on and on about how tired she is because she is the single mother of three, etc. etc. Thankfully, we haven't gotten any of that this season.

Maggie would be so much better served visiting DeLuca, mentoring an intern or resident, or actively hating Alex than she is here.  This triangle is doing no one any favors whatsoever.

I agree with this entire post. I love Jo - well I loved her in seasons 9 and 10, when the writers were doing her character justice and she was a kind, loving girlfriend who still had that fun spark to her in other areas of her characterisation. She's still my favourite character - I find it hard to give up on characters I love - but lately I'm just defending her to people because the writers are doing NOTHING but writing her into the ground. I don't understand it. It looked like after YEARS, they were finally giving her some focus (even if it was a retcon) that could be the start of something extremely compelling for her, and a chance for Camilla to spread her wings a bit (and for what she's got so far this season I'm extremely impressed with her - she killed me in the first episode). So what the hell are they doing now?? She didn't make a SINGLE comment that could undoubtedly be concluded to be an insight to her feelings about Alex/deluca, and they didn't even have her or Alex react to each other AT ALL this episode (they freaking walked by each other for god sakes). It's almost like some writers have an idea what they're doing with her and then some (this past one) don't have a clue, or even care. The more this happens, the more pissed I'm getting, because I for one AM invested in her and jolex and I want to see this done justice and them given the attention they give EVERYONE else. 

[gonewiththeschwinn]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Maybe so but did you spend a whole year beforehand whining about wanting a baby? And then turn around and start whining about being bored ten seconds after it was born? {/end of weekly April Is Insufferable Rant.}

Actually I tried for about two and a half years to have a baby, so I guess I probably did whine for some point before that. I understand what you mean - that April shouldn't be complaining about being bored. But for all the things that Grey's gets wrong about being a parent, I think they actually got this right - the newborn phase is not always this rosy dreamy place. Sleep deprivation, being alone in the house with no one else to talk to...especially for April, who probably had a lot of support and company at first, but now that she's healed more, she's been left alone with her daughter. I think that's something that a lot of mothers experience to some degree and I have to imagine it would hold especially true for someone like April who's used to being in the ER and OR all the time. 

 

I honestly do appreciate a good April is insufferable rant though.

[Court]

This keeps coming up and it's really bothering me. Someone can be giggling and still be raped. They may not be aware of what's going on or can't move to say no. Or they never said yes. 

I realize that Deluca wasn't attacking Jo but I have to get that off my chest. 

[Joana]

Of course it's possible, but it would be awfully odd to hear someone giggle and then automatically assume they're incapacitated and being taken advantage of. Moreover, it has never been shown or even hinted that Jo was in a habit of getting drunk to the point of total oblivion and thus making herself vulnerable, or that DeLuca had a shady reputation. 

Again, Alex didn't really see anything - if he had, he would have known that nothing was about to happen. Going from what he actually saw to the assumption that Jo was being raped would be a huge stretch. And even if that is what really happened, it would only mean the guy has more issues than we knew of. 

[Court]

My comment was meant in general. It's not  related to Jo specifically or that specific situation. 

It just is bothering me that many have said well she's giggling so she's fine and can't be assaulted!

That is absolutely not true in the real world. It almost is in the territory of victim blaming.

For me, it's just about society and perception of rape and sexual assault. 

[Joana]

I don't think anyone meant that just because she's giggling it means she can't be raped. At least I hope not!

Giggling only comes up because in this particular context it highlights the implausibility of such a scenario. Again, that's what I think/hope people mean when they talk about it.

[pieinmyeye]

10 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

Oddly enough I can make that assumption with out the writers telling me. But okay. This episode would have been the perfect place to put a line like that because it wasn't full of much of anything else.  Kind of fillerish to me. The biggest problem for me with the Arizona/Alex scene was him not even mentioning that he thought Deluca was attacking Jo. If he really thought that wouldn't it be his first defense? Not wah, poor me, I screwed up again. Although he went to far, it would be perfectly understandable that it happened.

Bailey annoyed me. She is sooo important and busy now she can't deal with her son? That's crap and just a plot point to give Ben something to do. I did like the way Ben handled it though.

Stephanie obviously inherited Lexie and Izzy's run of the mouth disease. Really how many times should a resident be told to shut the hell up? But that's typical Grey's.

The next time we see April she will probably be having another emotional break down about NOT spending time with Harriet. Jeez, the girl is never satisfied. lol

Yes x 1,000.

[candall]

12 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

It's always amusing, almost infuriatingly so, the way this show cherry picks which characters' transgressions are worthy of condemnation and which ones are swept under the rug. Still, though, in this case it's not really the same thing. Owen punching Riggs once in the face, or Derek punching Mark once in the face that time years ago, etc. -- it was one punch. Still something that someone could have pressed charges over -- simple battery or something -- but nowhere near the level of assault that Alex leveled on DeLuca. And I think charging it as a felony is correct. It was brutally vicious. It caused debilitating, possibly long-lasting injuries (are we sure he's out of the woods about his eyesight?) that required surgery. That's no simple battery. Injuries that serious and that grievous elevate the attack from simple assault to aggravated assault, and that is typically classified as a felony. Love me some Karev, but he deserved the charges.

Lifetime Channel has been running multiple episodes of Grey's every day; my DVR is straining from the backlog. 

This is why, five minutes before tonight's episode, I happened to be watching Alex smash his fist into Shane's bleeding battered face, over and over and over.  [If you don't remember the storyline, Shane had a PTSD breakdown during surgery on Alex's dad and screwed it up.  It's later, when he goes to tell Alex how sorry he is, that Alex goes berserk and starts beating the shit out of him.]  Alex is struggling to get to Shane even after people pull him off--the implication is Alex would have beaten Shane to death.

Okay, so first, here's a guy who beat someone severely and has now beaten someone ELSE severely.  Would it be likely such a person would wind up walking around, at liberty to critically injure a third person the next time he blows his top?  In real life, I'm pretty sure "clinic duty" would be followed by handing out meds to his fellow inmates.

Switching gears, Is this REALLY the best you can come up with for Alex Karev, show??  FFS, you only have two members of the original MAGIC left.  Meredith is, and always has been, the center of the show, but after twelve seasons, Alex has walk-ons to hold Mer's hand when she hurts and co-pilot his girlfriend's "secret past" story.  He finally gets an arc and it's "rage issues."  Hello, been there, done that.  Three years ago.

What happened to that brilliant baby doc Johns Hopkins tried to woo with moving expenses, student loan repayment and his own lab?  What about those African kids?  Where's your depressed mother or the brother you had to have committed?  Maybe the little sister you feel guilty about abandoning is preggers and conflicted.  How about a clinical trial with Arizona?  Maybe you could make some baby parts in the 3D printer. 

Huff.  /Rant. 

Edited October 8, 2016 by candall

[WhosThatGirl]

8 hours ago, izabella said:

I need Alex to feel sorry for hurting DeLucca AND get his ass to a psychiatrist to actually address his anger management and emotional issues so he doesn't assault someone else in a blind rage.

The bold part.. because, right?!?!? I love Alex, I do, I hate this story for him more than words but apropos of that because it's happening and there's not much for me to do other than watch but.. really, Alex shows no remorse? His line to Arizona about DeLuca being "some guy who pays rent"? WTF? That was...messed up.  Like.. at some point, Alex has to own up to this and say sorry and feel sorry. I'm sorry but it's been some time where Alex should feel sorry for what he constituted as a mistake and be a man and realize he has some issues and firmly say sorry for it. Not sorry he lost his job for a time being, or that he lost his girlfriend, sorry he beat up DeLuca.

[Coxfires]

More than "I'm sorry", which is a saying that I often find hollow, I'd like Alex to tell DeLuca that he didn't deserve to be hurt this way, because he recognizes that he is a decent human being who should never have been at the receiving end of such a beating. Saying "I'm sorry" is making it all about you when it's the wronged party that should be acknowledged as such.

[WhosThatGirl]

34 minutes ago, Coxfires said:

More than "I'm sorry", which is a saying that I often find hollow, I'd like Alex to tell DeLuca that he didn't deserve to be hurt this way, because he recognizes that he is a decent human being who should never have been at the receiving end of such a beating. Saying "I'm sorry" is making it all about you when it's the wronged party that should be acknowledged as such.

Oh I agree 100%, I doubt very much we're getting anything close to this, though. It's going to be an "I'm sorry" half thing from Alex on the cusp of DeLuca having to forgive him.. because of reasons? My guess is something is going to happen and the two are going to be forced to work together. I don't even know. But with this show.. this story is going to be put on the back burner further into the season to make room for the Meredith/Riggs/Maggie triangle story that nobody asked for. I could be wrong but for some reason, I don't see them following through very much on Alex's anger issues/DeLuca being the actual victim. If anything, this is also just going to be Alex dealing with Jos secret as well and not about his anger issues anyway. 

[NUguy514]

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If he told his attorney (which - when did he hire an attorney??) he wanted to press felony charges against Alex, then yes - I understand why people would be mad at DeLuca. What Alex did was wrong and horrible but it was a mistake. But if this whole thing is out of DeLuca's hands because Alex confessed, was arrested for assault and the DA decided to press felony charges, then none of it's DeLuca's fault and nobody should be mad at him. (But then again - why would he have an attorney?)

Nope, beating a guy almost to death is not a mistake.  Like, at all.