S03.E02: Burn the Witch

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Fish Mooney (guest star Jada Pinkett Smith) takes matters into her own hands to locate Hugo Strange (guest star BD Wong), forcing Gordon to reluctantly team up with journalist Valerie Vale (guest star Jamie Chung) to find her. Penguin rises in popularity after criticizing the work of the GCPD and Bruce's investigation of the Court of Owls is compromised. Meanwhile, Ivy Pepper (Maggie Geha) is reintroduced into Gotham city.

 

[Primetimer]

It sometimes seems like internal consistency and logic are not this comic book show's #1 priority. Monty Ashley has questions!

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[HoodlumSheep]

Not really fond of the new ivy. :/ I know it's only her first episode, but meh.

that Oswald/Fish scene was absolute perfection!

good to see Hugo Strange again! 

I love the piece of music they play for not!Bruce. Why won't they release an OST? :'(

Lee returned to Gotham like a majestic goddess. Too bad she'll probably be wasted on love triangle stuff...unless maybe we'll see her interact with not!Bruce? Maybe? One can hope.

here I was hoping they were finally going to revisit the Fish/Harvey plot point they left hanging in season 1, but I see we'll continue to have to wait.

 

they're going for the 'Penguin runs for mayor' plot aren't they? 

Next week looks like a good episode for Halloween. I guess it'll be airing in October, so close enough :P

[Danielg342]

I didn't think Gotham could hit rock bottom...but here we are.

That was dreadful. Mind-numbingly boring. Almost absolutely unmemorable.

So much...posturing. So little...action. So many things happened without anything of significance occurring as a result. Or even anything to really build on.

I get that in Episode 2 that we're not going to get answers and it's just going to continue building up from the premiere...but, usually, these episodes at least have some kind of a story to keep us hooked.

This? This was just "things happening"...it's about as filler an episode as there could ever be.

Granted, there were...moments...that kind of stuck out. Bruce meeting the Court of Owls (and his brother)...Fish's siege at the ranch...Penguin's mob...Lee stepping off the train...the most awkward kiss ever...Ivy...

...but none of it did anything except try to set up for storylines down the road. We know that neither Bruce nor the Owls will keep their end of the bargain to stop targeting each other because then there would be no story, would it? You also had to wonder why the Owls didn't just dispose of Bruce Wayne right then and there...all their troubles would be solved right there, but logic isn't a comic book strong suit, it appears.

I admit, I was surprised that Penguin didn't shoot Fish, but he too easily fell for Fish's obvious manipulation and, ultimately, with Fish escaping alongside Hugo Strange (criminally underused in this episode), we're back to where we were in Episode 1.

As for that boring love triangle the show seems to want to set up...well, I knew Lee was going to come back...Morena Baccharin is still listed as a cast member, after all. So, colour me "not shocked" when seconds after Valerie Vale and Jim Gordon kiss we see Lee stepping off a train. I'm also not shocked that Vale and Gordon kissed, only to be disappointed that the two of them kissed like it was the worst chore you could ever assign the pair. C'mon guys...you're both smoking hot individuals...how can there be no attraction?

(Right, attraction's not always physical...but still...)

(Oh, and while I find Valerie Vale to be incredibly annoying as a character, Jamie Cheung is doing a marvelous job playing her. She should have her own gig)

As for Ivy...well, Maggie Geha is a great enough actress and can likely take the character to new heights. However, I felt Geha should have been Ivy right from Day 1, and Ivy's storyline in this episode was nothing but showing off her "new found beauty" (and well, I won't lie...the new Ivy is a stunner) and establishing herself as a killer because...well, Ivy's a villain. It would have been far more interesting if the guy she was staying with was someone she fell in love with and helped rebuild her life...then again, I did appreciate that the show seems to have learned from its trend of "disposable women" and given us a disposable dude. I guess that's progress.

The Bullock Meter- 5. He was central to the plot, doing more than just barking around and getting barked at, as Fish kidnapped him in order to find Hugo Strange. I admit, I was worried he'd be a goner or, worse, become a villain, but thankfully neither happened. Still, for all the zingers he had in this episode (and he had a few), Bullock felt largely like a plot device- used simply for Fish to get what she needed and as someone Jim and Barnes needed to save in the end. Which I guess is great considering Bullock was the "damsel in distress" and, though I love him to bits, Bullock surely ain't a damsel...but I miss the Bullock of "The Spirit of the Goat" and "Wrath of the Villains: Prisoners" that drove the plots and wasn't just a participant. Bullock needs to be way more than just a part of the scenery.

Episode Grade: F. There's no other way to describe it other than "one hour of my life I will never ever get back".

Edited September 27, 2016 by Danielg342

[paigow]

Did the mansion / prison not have a landline? Hey Barnes, pick up the phone and warn them that Bullock is leading Fish there...

[Spartan Girl]

Fish: Harvey...no hard feelings.

Bullock: Fish...screw you.

And that was the only high point of this episode.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Spartan Girl

[Lantern7]

Can't wait for the inevitable meeting. "You kissed a girl from The Real World?!?" "Hey, she was the best roommate from her season after Jacquese." "She was in Sucker Punch!!!!" "Okay, I will admit, that one is harder to defend."

Once again, I come for the batshit insanity, and the show does not disappoint. I mean, a lady in a mask strolls up to Harvey, and he doesn't whip out his gun. "Chippie with exposed eyes? Must be Monday." And the Manor gets breached again. Lex Luthor had better security on Smallville, and he went through a half dozen guys per episode.

Jada was on The Daily Show last week. Had to remind myself that she plays a psychopath. If I were Trevor Noah, I would've asked her how she can inhale so much scenery. Even with Oswald, Babs and Hugo, she holds her own.

Anybody else want to give a hat for Barnes to wear? I think he needs something to throw on the ground on a regular basis. I know, we're lucky if he shows two dimensions, but I'm amazed he hasn't shot one of his own yet. Or Gordon. Maybe he'll beat the crap out of him with the cane.

Ivy took the 13 Going On 30 thing well. Then again, I don't remember Jennifer Gardner killing a guy for not watering his plants. Glad to have you in canon, Ivy!

[thuganomics85]

Impressive!  Not only did that guy's aging powers somehow turn Ivy into an older, sexier Ivy, it apparently allowed her clothes to get bigger too. Because despite getting taller and whatnot, there didn't seem to be any kind of stretching and rips in her old outfit.  It's like Bruce Banner's pants! The actress seems to fit the part well, but I'll wait to see if this anything more then "Umm, we need to increase our 18-49 male demo, so lets get the hot Poison Ivy the guys love!"

Valerie screws over Jim this time, but she really screws everyone over because, naturally, the GCPD is shit and fail to catch Fish the first time.  So, they kidnap Bullock and make him take them to Strange (hi again, B.D. Wong!), and he's now their captive.  Or Fish's to be exact, since it looks like almost everyone member of her team got killed off to get him.  Jim saves Bullock by selling her out to Oswald, but then Oswald lets her go because he suddenly has a soft spot for their history.  Alrighty, then!

With Strange's return and Leslie Hendrix playing the head of the organization that Bruce is trying to bring down, this sure was the episode to feature past Law & Order characters!

Naturally, Jim and Valerie make-out, followed naturally by Lee suddenly returning to Gotham.  Love triangle time!  Sorry, Valerie, but as much as I love Jamie Chung, I'm putting my money on the one that is played by the actress that is currently engaged to Ben McKenzie!

Oswald is so going to run for mayor, right?

The only real purpose for that Barbara scene was just to have Erin Richards do her crazy face again, which is as good as a reason as any, I guess.

Not enough of Fish and Bullock busting each other.  Those two are some of my favorite things about season one.

Sorry, Michael Chiklis, but Barnes is a blustering bore.  I still miss Essen.
 

Edited September 27, 2016 by thuganomics85

[Chaos Theory]

This show is at its best when it just goes for the crazy fun mayhem.

I loved the Barbara/Jim/Viki scene scene in the bar especially when Viki Vale finally recognized Barbara.  That was hilarious.  "I like your ex."  And now that Jim is sleeping with Viki and Leslie is back.  Things are going to get complicated for Jimbo.  

The scene in the woods with Fish, Penguin and Strange also worked for me.  Fish's explanations on why she couldn't kill Penguin made perfect sense.  She created Penguin and he was the best thing she's ever done.

i really do hope Barbara has a real storyline this seAson because I love the character and the show continues to promise something but never white delivers..

[MarkHB]

First, Ivy had damn well better introduce her new self to someone by saying, "I blossomed..."

Second, I slowed down the end credits so I could see what the names of Fish's other two sidekicks - the speedster and the tall woman with the mask and no explained power that I know of - were.  Apparently, they were Sid and Nancy.

Third, don't forget to water.

[Last Time Lord]

3 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Apparently, they were Sid and Nancy.

Oh, Show...

[Kathemy]

http://www.douxreviews.com/2016/09/gotham-burn-witch.html

This one didn't take long to write. I think and I hope next episode will be better.

[immortalfrieza]

So... they going to explain why Ivy goes from a weird kid to a plant worshiping supermodel psychopath in a single night? Ivy may have a story reason for having been aged up but she never gave any indication she gave a damn about plants on this show especially not to the point she would kill somebody over them.

Oh Oswald... you're going to regret letting Fish go, probably screaming "I SHOULD HAVE KILLED YOU IN THE WOODS!!!" at some point, one can have the IQ of a rock and see that. Of course, if Penguin had just shot the second Fish showed up we wouldn't have Fish around stinking up the place for the rest of the season, and it's sad that that kind of idiocy is rampant in fiction.

Jim, Valerie got you hook, line, and sinker from the beginning in more ways than one. I wish I could blame sex drive on Jim's idiocy this episode but considering his intelligence on most episodes was less than stellar I'm not surprised he was an idiot here. Apparently Barnes couldn't at least spare a couple guys to watch the back of the place and radio in when they went out the back, but then the GCPD has been utterly incompetent throughout the Batman Mythos so what else is new?

[Kathemy]

I don't think they'll go back to the antagonism dynamic between Oswald and Maria. It's played out.

[darkestboy]

Solid episode but nothing too great about it.

New Ivy is off to a promising start though. She didn't have a lot of screen time but Maggie Geha did make it work.

The said, the show did not waste time in having Ivy kill someone though, did they? The guy was a little thoughtless about plants but he didn't deserve for it.

I do hope the show doesn't go overboard with the seductress route with Ivy even if it's a big part of her character though.

Fish's plot came to an abrupt ending of sorts. Oswald had the chance to kill her but instead let her and Strange go with Gordon sort of aiding it as well. I did love Fish and Bullock's scenes together though. 

Barnes continues to bore me as a character but I am liking Lucius in the GCPD though.

Gordon and Valerie I saw coming but it was rushed though and timed with Leslie's return and Barbara going over past ground though.

Bruce's scenes with the Court of Owls lady were okay but it quickly fizzled out. The ganger bit at the end though has potential.

I guess we know what Oswald's next storyline is going to be, 7/10

[Chaos Theory]

When it comes to Ivy and aging her (I am not going to get into her name because I am not a comic book person but have some knowledge through movies and such of the genre and it took me a minute to Temember that Ivy wasn't her actual comic book name so I could see a lot of people who have little knowledge outside of her supervillian name) I can see the appeal.  Bruce Watne has had next to no interaction with anyone his own age so the idea of him interacting with young Ivy which was probably the initial intent has probably been thrown out completely.  The only other option would be Indian Hill Bruce but that is unlikely to happen as well.  The better Option is to age her through the magic of superpower villianny  and let her lose on Gotham.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Lantern7]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Oswald is so going to run for mayor, right?

1. I think her pants were torn around her calves. And upon further thought, her situation is more Big than 13 Going On 30.

2. "Oswald Cobblepot For Mayor: He's Gonna Play This City Like A Harp From Hell!"

ETA: I lost the first part of the post, in regards to Ivy's outfit.

[Mister Kent]

8 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

So... they going to explain why Ivy goes from a weird kid to a plant worshiping supermodel psychopath in a single night? Ivy may have a story reason for having been aged up but she never gave any indication she gave a damn about plants on this show especially not to the point she would kill somebody over them.

I think she was watering plants in her first scene, and I think Bruce and Selina ran into her on some rooftop garden thing a few times? But as far as anything outright stated, I can't recall.

[tanita]

Any subtlety this show had has gone down the water - if I hear the word "monster" one more I'm going to strangle someone. Seriously, am I watching Once Upon a Time or Gotham here.

I haven't been fallowing any spoilers but is it me or Barbara morphing into Harley Quinn - that overall demeanor and that "sane certificate" line are totally Harley.

Jamie Change continues to show more personality and charisma in these two episodes then she did in her entire run on OUAT as Mulan.

It's been a long time since I saw season 1 but Jada has gone from positively campy good to campy terrible. They need to rest Fish for good this time. That Fish/Oswald scene thought - pure quality gold.

Edited September 27, 2016 by tanita

[Winter Rose]

Sheesh, Jim never wastes any time does he. I thought September would at least finish out before he started hooking up with Valerie, and I remember his initial hook up with Lee wasn't long after they'd met either. I just hope this looming triangle doesn't wind up taking over the show (and that's not even factoring where Barbara might fit down the line).

New Ivy is okay so far but I think it's still too soon to tell. Maybe the aging process took its toll a little bit hence the - extreme - reaction to the guy who didn't water his plants. I'd thought he was a goner from the start.

I actually really enjoyed Penguin and Fish's scene. He's very sentimental and while this may come back to bite him, I liked that he let Fish live. And I'm so glad Harvey finally got more to do. That needs to happen more often. I always liked his quasi-friendship with Fish.

I think Bruce's double has the potential to be the sacrificial lamb should he want to continue his investigations again.

Looking forward to the Mad Hatter next week.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Winter Rose

[Artsda]

Lee looked great in the scene of her returning.

I really liked the Penguin/Bullock/Fish/Gordon scenes.

Loved the Gordon and Barbara exchange.

[Sakura12]

I really don't care about Jim, so this being a mostly Jim centric episode bored me. New Ivy's transformation is not working for me. It just looks they were desperate to get to Poison Ivy did whatever they could to rush her to that point. Instead of taking their time to develop her like the rest of the villains. 

Morena Baccarin is an amazingly beautiful woman but I really don't get the point of her character on this show. I guess this angry version of Gordon needs a love interest, he however doesn't need another triangle. I don't see how one woman would want to date him, let alone multiple women. 

[Kathemy]

Gotham's already oversaturated with hot women in the general age range of Maggie Geha. Erin Richards is 30. Jamie Chung is 33. Jessica Lucas is 31.

Right now I don't understand why they felt they needed Pornsome Ivy.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed this episode.  I love the Fish Mooney character and I am really digging Jada Pinkett Smith's over the top performance.  She is having a lot of fun.

I liked seeing Fish's band of "monsters".  There was the guy who sucks lifeforce, the really big strong guy, the Quicksilver type lady with the silver hair, a lady who had some kind of electrical power, and then a vaguely Hispanic woman with a mask over her face like Elektra (Daredevil) or Kitana (Mortal Kombat).  At first I thought she was Tabitha but she clearly is a different woman.  Curious as to what her power is.

I also like Fish's wardrobe, it is very comic book cartoon villainy.  The top looks very snake or dragon like.

Jamie Chung can leave any time.  Her character is useless and she's a bad actress.  Sadly, I feel like Chung thinks she is doing a bang-up acting job.

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, Mister Kent said:

I think she was watering plants in her first scene, and I think Bruce and Selina ran into her on some rooftop garden thing a few times? But as far as anything outright stated, I can't recall.

And then she was part of some gang that had her taking care of their magic mushrooms.  So plants have always been at least something of a thing with her.

2 hours ago, tanita said:

I haven't been fallowing any spoilers but is it me or Barbara morphing into Harley Quinn - that overall demeanor and that "sane certificate" line are totally Harley.

Did you see the Misfits arc from the first half of last season?  No spoilers, they've totally made her fake!Harley.  I think ER's doing a great job with it, too... a far cry from her days on Breaking In.

[tanita]

25 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Did you see the Misfits arc from the first half of last season?  No spoilers, they've totally made her fake!Harley.  I think ER's doing a great job with it, too... a far cry from her days on Breaking In.

Yeah, I just did last week. Maybe that is why it all feels so recent. I stopped watching last season after episode 3 and I only found the time to catch up to it last week or so. Barbara is definitely on a Harley trajectory.

I enjoy the show, thought Jim being the lead is not ideal - I really don't like his performance at all, it's very mechanical and artificial, his voice is weird because he sounds like he is attempting to talk an octave lower on purpose. Baby Bruce has only one facial expression, but I adore Penguin, Nigma, Barbara - after she went crazy in season 1, Alfred, Selina,Butch, ... I also love Morena Baccarin, but I too don't get the point of her character on the show other then Jim's love interest - and that is just weak.

Edited September 27, 2016 by tanita

[Kathemy]

14 minutes ago, tanita said:

Baby Bruce has only one facial expression

That's the most bizarre statement I've ever heard about this show.

If there's anything David's good at it's playing with subtle changes in facial expression. He's learned it from his days on Touch, where he played an autistic boy who didn't say a word for two seasons.

[tanita]

Well, maybe he is too subtle for my taste. I don't think he is talentless or plain bad, but his performance leaves me cold most of the time. At times both Alfred and Selina mange to pull out something more out of him that shows me the potencial, but that is about it. I guess the tortured stoicism that they are going for with young master Bruce is a bit too much for me at times - he is suppose to become Batman one day, not be him at age 13/14 without the playboy behavior.

He has his moments - my favorite one has to be his seeing Azrael skulking along the walls and running from the cops. He was transfixed and so was I.

Edited September 27, 2016 by tanita

[Last Time Lord]

1 hour ago, Kathemy said:

That's the most bizarre statement I've ever heard about this show.

If there's anything David's good at it's playing with subtle changes in facial expression. He's learned it from his days on Touch, where he played an autistic boy who didn't say a word for two seasons.

 

THAT WAS HIM?!?

He was so little,  then.

I feel old, now. :(

[Gobi]

I expect that Bruce's deal with the Court of Owls will be the reason he adopts the secret Batman identity. That is, if the show ever gets that far.

[tennisgurl]

Lee looked amazing in that last scene. And I loved the train station vibe, it looked very Casablanca. I like Lee a lot, so I would be happy to have her back, even though she is pretty much just Jim's love interest. 

I am amused by Jim's constant "Oh my God the shit I have to put up with" attitude this episode. Dealing with crazy Barbara, Penguins massive one sided crush, a nosy reporter he is about to get into a love triangle with, plus typical Gotham crap. I could do with a few more scenes of Jim being long suffering while Barbara rambles on like a coked out Harley Quinn. 

Plus, a bit more Bullock is always win. His BFF stuff with Jim is always great, and his pissed off reactions to Fish was great. And I just love Jada and her over the top ridiculousness. She plays off Jim and Bullock really well. 

7 hours ago, tanita said:

Seriously, am I watching Once Upon a Time or Gotham here.

I thought the same thing! Enough with your stupid theme, show! You dont have to say it every five seconds, we get the point! 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Lee looked amazing in that last scene. And I loved the train station vibe, it looked very Casablanca.

Gotham is falling into anarchy, but the train station looks great....

[MarkHB]

That streamliner (which I assume didn't actually exist) was GORGEOUS!

[Philbert]

11 hours ago, tanita said:

 

I haven't been fallowing any spoilers but is it me or Barbara morphing into Harley Quinn - that overall demeanor and that "sane certificate" line are totally Harley.

 

I haven't seen any spoilers related to that but the similarity between Harley Quinn and "Gotham Barbara" have been a source of much discussion by fans.

[Philbert]

Well, like an idiot, I didn't pay attention to the schedule and completely missed the season three premiere last week. On top of that, my local FOX station seems to have screwed up the sound last night for the first 20 minutes so I had to watch it with closed captions on to figure out what they were saying.

Anyway...put me in the 'meh' camp on this one. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. Since I missed the premiere I'm not sure where they're going with the whole "Oswald as leader of the mob" thing but okay, I'll bite. It's a little bit like the plot in Burton's "Batman Returns"-which I actually liked (yeah, there are a few of us out there) so I'm looking forward to where they take it. To echo a couple of other people here, yeah the shot of Lee stepping off the train was absolutely stunning. This remains one of the best looking shows on television. I'll match the acting and production design against most other shows currently on. But the writing remains a bit uneven and cliched at times and I'm not really buying the new girl as the latest Gordon love interest. Loved Barbara in her brief scene though. Donal Logue was great as usual, as was Jada Pinkett (has she dropped the Smith part yet). As for "Valerie" Vale...

Am I dating myself by saying I really missed Kim Basinger last night?

[Snookums]

Quote

And the Manor gets breached again. Lex Luthor had better security on Smallville, and he went through a half dozen guys per episode.

AND he had an actual manor! With rooms! Bruce and Alfred live in a stunningly palatial two room hut. (YES, I know it's because they can't build sets for every part of the mansion but I don't care.) It's especially annoying because every third damn house in this bizarro city is a manor. All there is to Gotham is manors, abandoned apartment houses, abandoned warehouses and secret government facilities. And the police station. That's it. I cannot figure out their tax base. Either all the gazillionaires who inexplicably live in this deathtrap pay mondo taxes without trying to shelter dime one or those secret government grants pay hella well. I haven't seen so much top quality real estate being underutilized since The Following.

(And while I applaud Alfred for having a gun handy for once, WINDOWS. STILL. WIDE. OPEN. I despair.)

Well, Ivy's found her calling and surprise, it involves killing people and being sexy. I feel bad for the younger actress but now she can comb her hair. And the show has established her affinity with plants so I didn't mind that. I DO hope she doesn't have sudden plant mojo powers to go with the Veronica Lake look--the guy aged her but his powers don't include "all the daisies talk to me" subroutines as far as I know.

Well, Jim Gordon was again a dummy this week but he had plenty of takers on that crazy picnic--can anybody explain to me why the GCPD still even exists??? Penguin should have been arrested at his press conference for attempting to incite a riot, and DEFINITELY should have been clapped in irons for said actual riot that led directly to the escape of Hugo Strange! Since the Feds apparently exist in this reality they should be renditioning his ass to the blackest pit in Christendom where large and humorless people work him over with rusty wire hangers and an electric eel. Harvey was under duress so I'll give him a break, but Barnes is flat out terrible at his job. 

(However, I gotta give a shout out to....drum roll...JIM'S MYSTERY APARTMENT REVEALED AT LAST! Holy crap, so he doesn't just unbutton a rift in the time/space fabric and disappear! He's got an actual place! I wonder how long it will take Lee to stumble upon it!)

Valerie continues to annoy, and both she and Jim appeared to be frog-marched into their little smoochathon, there; I do get very very sick of this show insisting that characters that clearly don't like each other are somehow desperate for each other's happy fun parts. Also, I think Barbara is jealous that Val is taking over her no-pants duties.

Bruce makes promises that will be inconvenient to keep! To Leslie Hendrix, my spirit animal, yet! But luckily he's got pretty much all he needs for his alter ego to start emerging, plus a decoy, er, copy new bestest friend he feels just terribly responsible for and would never put in danger ever of course. Not at all.

Speaking of not in danger, Hugo Strange is not that? Not not that? He's in danger, is the point. His fusspot little protestings were gold--BD Wong is working miracles with that character. And I love the fabulous overenunciation by both him and Jada--they sound like Serious Old New England Money telling that Cthulu upstart never to darken their doors again.

Last but not least, hey Lee! Fantastic outfit! But whoever is trying to force that "limp Farrah" hairstyle to happen needs to be taken behind the barn. It is awful and frumps up everybody it's inflicted on. Morena Bacarrin, one of the most stunning people on earth, couldn't make it work!

[paigow]

14 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Right now I don't understand why they felt they needed Pornsome Ivy.

To focus pedophiles on Selina????

[tanita]

Also, how are there any new cops in Gotham ??? Every episode kills about half a dozen cops at least. Why would anyone in their right mind want to be the law in this lawless town is beyond me ?

Quote

Am I dating myself by saying I really missed Kim Basinger last night?

No, you are acknowledging superiority where there is some. I'm not bothered Chang in the role but she ain't Basinger in her drop dead gorgeous prime. She, Pfeiffer and Kidman are primary reasons why I watch old batman movies from time to time. And I'm not even into the ladies - they are just so pretty and charismatic.

Edited September 28, 2016 by tanita

[Kathemy]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

To focus pedophiles on Selina????

Apparently, in the New Puritan Empire, if you're attracted to a seventeen-year-old you're a wannabe child molester.

[Philbert]

18 hours ago, tanita said:

No, you are acknowledging superiority where there is some. I'm not bothered Chang in the role but she ain't Basinger in her drop dead gorgeous prime. She, Pfeiffer and Kidman are primary reasons why I watch old batman movies from time to time. And I'm not even into the ladies - they are just so pretty and charismatic.

Michelle Pfeiffer remains my favorite Selena Kyle/Catwoman of all time (and yes that includes Eartha Kitt and Julie Newmar, even though they were both great). That's coming from somebody who thinks young Camren Bicondova is absolutely perfect in this role. I'm just somebody who openly admits to loving Batman Returns-which is heresy in some quarters. :)

[tanita]

Hey, I openly love Batman Forever - utter dreck that it is.

[loki567]

I'm not digging the monsters storyline. I hope this is similar to Jerome last year and Fish gets taken out relatively soon and they move onto to something else. 

I actually enjoyed the Jim/Valerie dynamic, more than any other Jim relationship in fact. Ben McKenzie can be very stiff so anything that can lighten him is very welcome. There was a good screwball 50s romantic comedy vibe with them screwing each other over. Of course this being Gotham with its break-neck pace, they're already making out and in a love triangle. *Sighs* 

The Poison Ivy storyline is gross and stupid on so many levels. Getting past the obvious fact that Ivy's like ten, why would in the world would you feel the need to go there when you have Barbara, who fills all the same dangerous/seductive boxes? The writer's struggles enough with giving their female characters things to do as is.  

Edited September 29, 2016 by loki567

[NorthstarATL]

I have to admit, even with all the scenery devouring going on between Fish, Penguin, Strange, and others, Barbara outdid them all in one little scene! Her "dream" cracked me up. I would never have guessed back in the first season that she would ever be my fave!

 I'm intrigued as well by Bizarro Bruce. There's not a comic analog I can think of off the top of my head, but the idea is different enough to hold my interest.

[jhlipton]

On 9/27/2016 at 2:06 PM, blackwing said:

I  liked seeing Fish's band of "monsters".  There was the guy who sucks lifeforce, the really big strong guy, the Quicksilver type lady with the silver hair, a lady who had some kind of electrical power, and then a vaguely Hispanic woman with a mask over her face like Elektra (Daredevil) or Kitana (Mortal Kombat).  At first I thought she was Tabitha but she clearly is a different woman.  Curious as to what her power is.

The status of the "monsters":
"Fountain of Elderly" went off with Fish
Electro-Lass was captured at the bank (along with 4 others, I think -- I thought I heard them say that they captured 5)
Bang-Zip-Bang and The Masked Girl were beaten to death and thrown on the fire -- whatever power The Masked Girl had is moot now

[driedfruit]

I like Valerie. She represents the pesky press side in the cops vs criminals struggle which I always wanted to see more of, and she's the first love interest of Gordon's who doesn't bore me to tears. Plus Jamie Change is gorgeous and clearly having a hella lot of fun playing her.

Fish and Penguin had a great moment. I hope this means Fish is the big bad for the final arc. 

Not seeing the appeal of new Ivy right now.

[Philbert]

On 9/29/2016 at 3:27 AM, tanita said:

Hey, I openly love Batman Forever - utter dreck that it is.

 

As long as you hate "Batman and Robin" we can still be friends :)

[tanita]

That movie is unwatchable 95% of the time, even though I kinda dig Uma as Poison Ivy a bit.

[Snorfbat]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 8:32 AM, Lantern7 said:

1. I think her pants were torn around her calves. And upon further thought, her situation is more Big than 13 Going On 30.

For us comic book fans Ivy's situation is more like Green Lantern Arisia, a 13-year-old who was artificially aged into Barely Legal status. Yuck.
 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Snorfbat

[Lazlo]

Valerie really is ridiculously gorgeous and I have always had a crush on Lois Lane as a character (yes I know Vicki Vale has had an independent existence for decades but for all intents and purposes Jamie Chung is playing Lois Lane.)

This might be unpopular but I think the show played Barbara as unrealistically clever this episode, with her expert insight into Butch's plan. She is crazy and dangerous but I always felt the show played her as someone who thinks she is much smarter than she actually is - remember her conversation with Selina in Season One about beauty being a weapon:

Barbara: Your appearance can be a weapon. As powerful as any knife or gun.

Selina: What good's it done you?

The point of that I thought was not to show the uselessness of knowing how to manipulate other people - Selina is destined to become a femme fatale after all - but that Barbara specifically couldn't really back up her own ego. It seems a bit of a leap to suddenly buy her as a genius.