S08.E19: Tomfoolery

[KungFuBunny]

1 minute ago, zoeysmom said:

 

This is not directed at you but how does her staying and marrying someone who stepped out make her less of a hypocrite?  Are Jacques feelings now part of the equation? Are his feelings of humiliation now diminished?

Luanne referred to Jacques as her soulmate. She loved him. She cheated on him, in a very public way and Jacques forgave her.

She now loves Tom, he's her soulmate. Tom made out with someone else after becoming engaged to Luanne. Luanne is finding out publicly and she'll forgive Tom.

[zoeysmom]

2 minutes ago, esco1822 said:

I don't know about everyone else but I don't think it's pathetic she chooses to live her life that way,  I think it's sad which is different.  I think it's sad that she doesn't feel like she's worthy of being treated better by her partners.  The thing is she DOES explain and announce the details of her relationships she just changes them along the way as they suit her. Remember when Ramona outed her at the reunion years ago and said she was in an open marriage?  She vociferously denied it, then admitted it and now is saying "yeah but it wasn't my choice."  This is all so she can play the victim when everything falls apart.  If she just admitted it from the start instead of pretending to be someone she's not, it wouldn't be such a big deal. 

Actually Luann told Ramona not to talk about her marriage.  I was waiting for the denial.  It was more of a how dare you moment.  At the Season 6 Reunion, Luann reiterated that Ramona had attacked her marriage.  By Season 7 Ramona was handing out apologies for talking about Luann's marriage. Now we are at Season 8 and Luann gets to revisit her first marriage because Bethenny  and Carole want to use it as ammo.

When Ramona was confronted with Mario's philandering, she just went on and on about how great her marriage was.  (Season 4 reunion.) When confronted again, after it was in the tabloids with photos, police reports, she said she would not discuss it. (Season 6 Reunion.) Then she wrote a book about it. 

At one point I do think there was a honest agreement between the women to not out every detail of their lives as they were operating under the guise of hurting each others' children.  Ramona has lead the way in the cheap shots department and been the first to lead the attacks.

Last year on the beach in Turks & Caicos newly single Bethenny and Ramona accused Sonja of being a man-stealer.  This year it was Luann.  There seems to be a recycling of accusations and insults in this franchise.

[esco1822]

1 minute ago, zoeysmom said:

Last year on the beach in Turks & Caicos newly single Bethenny and Ramona accused Sonja of being a man-stealer.  This year it was Luann.  There seems to be a recycling of accusations and insults in this franchise.

And presumably a recycling of behavior because both scenarios were true.  

[jnymph]

I honestly thought they were going here:

The Sandbar 

Which is actually a really cool place.

Bethenny telling Lu was painful to watch, that was NOT scripted.   The look on Lu's face was palpable.   Even after her gloating, I couldn't help but feel bad for her. 

[KungFuBunny]

45 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

Thank god it wasn't a 'rusty trombone'.

Ack! Just crossed my legs.

I didn't need the thought of a tetanus shot to the pistachio.

If you need the visual, ask Jules to text you her next Vagelfie

[Natalie68]

14 hours ago, ryebread said:

Doris cracked me up with this:

"I haven't had a good go of it with Ramona. She's a dog that bites. I'll pat her on the ass but I'm not touching her on the face."  Hahahaha. So good.

Incidentally, I thought Jules looked stunning in that scene in her cornflower blue top, raven hair and fuchsia lipstick. 

And Sonja - of the tiara and reading glasses, probably watching Netflix?  I just can't hate her.

I am beginning to wonder what is going on with Doris.  It seems like most episodes involve her being so wasted she is slurring her words and I can't understand what the hell she is saying.  Is she an alcoholic or does she have some sort of neurological disorder (if its booze, STOP!)?  She may be nice and a good friend but she is sloppy and I find myself waiting for the spittle or food to come flying out of her mouth when she is trying to speak (and it sounds like she is speaking in tongues).

[zoeysmom]

11 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Luanne referred to Jacques as her soulmate. She loved him. She cheated on him, in a very public way and Jacques forgave her.

She now loves Tom, he's her soulmate. Tom made out with someone else after becoming engaged to Luanne. Luanne is finding out publicly and she'll forgive Tom.

I don't think life works that way.  If a person cheats on their spouse, is forgiven and the marriage ends, I don't think it gives the next Mrs. married to a cheater a free pass to cheat and Mr. Cheater has to forgive.  I just tend to believe as we go through life we learn from our mistakes and try not repeat the behavior that hurts others, or tolerate hurtful behavior.

I always thought Luann was a little foolish to get involved with Jacques, although I believe she truly cared, because he had a transcontinental business, she had children to raise in the US and he allegedly wanted more.  It would seem she would have remembered the difficulties in having a transcontinental relationship with the Count.  There was also something recently Luann said that gave me pause about Jacques and perhaps his financial situation.  Luann said the Count asked her about Tom's financial status, to which she replied he was a millionaire.  Almost as if perhaps Jacques wasn't very flush.

I probably stand alone, but I didn't think Luann had to forgive Tom and I doubt we will get much of an explanation of the details of the public kissing.  Granted they had 10 months before the wedding but I would not know what to do.  Do you call of the engagement and wedding date and reset the relationship and see if you are willing to forgive, and move forward?  Or do you perhaps have a long discussion if this the relationship for the two of you and move forward with the plans without calling off the engagement?  Whatever the path I don't think it reflects well on the others for opining just because it is deeply personal. 

17 minutes ago, esco1822 said:

And presumably a recycling of behavior because both scenarios were true.  

Where do these women stash all these stolen men?  And is there a fence, like for stolen goods, for these men? : -)

[KungFuBunny]

6 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I am beginning to wonder what is going on with Doris.  It seems like most episodes involve her being so wasted she is slurring her words and I can't understand what the hell she is saying.  Is she an alcoholic or does she have some sort of neurological disorder (if its booze, STOP!)?  She may be nice and a good friend but she is sloppy and I find myself waiting for the spittle or food to come flying out of her mouth when she is trying to speak (and it sounds like she is speaking in tongues).

Dorindish is not yet available on Google Translate.

Before watching, 3 glasses of the alcoholic beverage of your choice helps. You still won't understand, but you'll be too drunk to care and find it hilarious. You'll be playing watch that piece of rice move around Dorinda's half-lipsticked mouth. If it makes a full circle, take a shot.

[izabella]

2 hours ago, Anna525 said:

Ramona's doing the "look what you're missing, Mario" in everything she does - touching up her face before supposedly meeting someone, fake walk of shame, boobs too heavy she can't walk straight or whatever. 

She most certainly is, but 1) Mario ain't paying attention and couldn't care less, and 2) he ain't missing anything.

Edited August 18, 2016 by izabella

[Yours Truly]

19 minutes ago, esco1822 said:

I don't know about everyone else but I don't think it's pathetic she chooses to live her life that way,  I think it's sad which is different.  I think it's sad that she doesn't feel like she's worthy of being treated better by her partners.  The thing is she DOES explain and announce the details of her relationships she just changes them along the way as they suit her. Remember when Ramona outed her at the reunion years ago and said she was in an open marriage?  She vociferously denied it, then admitted it and now is saying "yeah but it wasn't my choice."  This is all so she can play the victim when everything falls apart.  If she just admitted it from the start instead of pretending to be someone she's not, it wouldn't be such a big deal. 

But why is that the natural assumption? Maybe the commitment and companionship is something that satisfies her wants. Also, I don't think she's just a doormat. I think she's just more open minded about dealing with the world we live in now and circumstances as they unfold in her life and relationships.

I say this as a women who would not WANT to accept indiscretions in my relationship but would definitely weigh the damage along with what I find fulfilling in my relationship and then determine what's more important to me, how I feel about my partner and their feelings about me, our circumstances, our lives, their intentions etc. etc. It isn't just a cut and dry thing sometimes and I don't find it at all surprising that at Lu's age and experience she isn't handling it in the typical way.

People treat these sort of situations as "strong" and "weak".  Such limited options.  It's not weak to really consider ALL that's involved with a long term relationship. Commitment isn't  just about romance, emotions and needs. There's a bigger picture and we tend to base important decisions on only a percentage of what a complete relationship entails.  I don't think there is anything wrong with considering the many different moving parts. We tend to over romanticize what a relationship should be and therefore base big decisions on just that one component. There are other considerations and there are so many other portions that creates the happiness in relationships. There are also varying degrees of damage. There's irreparable and there's workable. Lu finds it workable. 

What I find sad is the quick judgement that Lu must be damaged or thinks less of herself because she's not trying to hold out for that perfect situation and she doesn't consider reckless mistakes as the worse possible insult any man could ever do to a women and therefore should be tossed to the side. That her wanting to forgive and move on must mean that she's got issues and not that she's a grown woman who has made a conscious choice to move forward and take risks for love and companionship even though some unconventional circumstances have presented themselves. Do I think it's waaaaayyyyyy risky? Yup. But I've witness broken relationships flourish. I've seen dire situations turn into beautiful outcomes so I'm not one to think that it's impossible or that big of a stretch that less than stellar beginnings can't still evolve into something worth having. I think Lu is the type to believe its possible even if the stars aren't perfectly aligned and I don't think it's about her lack of self esteem.  Theirs is a recipe with ingredients Lu finds promising so she's going to knead it til it rises or til it falls but I don't see anything wrong with her deciding to continue to put forth an effort.

[zulualpha]

1 hour ago, PradaKitty said:

There needs to be an intervention with Ramona. Someone needs to tell her that she is not the same age she was when she was in the dating pool before her marriage and she is a grown up now. A grown up who should not wear anything remotely see-through. She also needs to loose the giant boobs. They make her look like a beach ball! There is no waist definition at all. Tight clothing is also not her friend.  Neither is scraggly hair...

You're out there now, Ramona. Time to up your game.

Much as I agree with the comments on Ramona's Barbie hair and choice of attire, that's not her problem.  Even if she lost 20  pounds and fixed her hair she would still be a sreechy, insecure, selfish, self centered, immature woman who doesn't know how to behave in public or in a group of friends.  She's not fun.  She's like her dancing-she's supposed to be having fun but it looks weirdly awkward and painful.  In this last episode I could really see why Tom was attracted to Luann as a partner as opposed to any of the other women.  She's always up and good to go, she doesn't seem to like to sit around gossiping about others and drinking, she holds her liquor well when she does drink and she seems like a basically happy person that loves life.  That's a lot more than can be said about the other mopes on the show this season.

[esco1822]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

But why is that the natural assumption?

It's the natural assumption because she herself said how miserable she was about it.  

[archer1267]

Quote

She eats and didn't bring anything back for the group.

She came back with ice cream (and what she referred to as "snacks" - I don't know if that was in addition to the ice cream). Which must have been a pretty melted mess by the time she got back to the boat. Ditto on the lameness of the sandbar...I thought it would be a literal sandbar where people would be hanging out, and boats for food and drink moored right there. Like a food trucks festival, only in the water.

I missed part of the episode, but Bagatelle Miami is related to the Bagatelle in St. Barth's, right? Either Ramona likes her chain establishments or Bagatelle gives out freebies in exchange for the multi-season promotional consideration.

[Yours Truly]

2 minutes ago, esco1822 said:

It's the natural assumption because she herself said how miserable she was about it.  

Oh, she said that in the episode? I didn't notice.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

I am so glad that it has finally been clarified that yes, LuAnn DID have an "open marriage" and that was not just some rumor started by meanies Ramona and Bethenny to take LuAnn down.  They were just repeating what LuAnn herself had said!  As to the bolded part, I call bullshit on this.  LuAnn chose to stay in the marriage.  It was her choice.  Whether she herself also had relationships outside her marriage, well, that hasn't been confirmed but it's been mentioned several times to LuAnn without her denial, so I'm gonna say yeah, she also had extramarital relationships while married to the Count. 

The whole Tom thing seems to fit a pattern, that monogamy is not a deal breaker for Lu.  She's so desperate to get down the aisle (or "runway" as she allegedly called it), it's pathetic. 

Well, yes and no. Luann clarified to Carole that the first 12 years of her marriage were traditional but the last 4 were "open" and against her wishes. Yes, it was her choice to accept those terms or not but it isn't the other HWs place to judge her or to make blanket statements about a situation they don't have all the information on either, yet they did. So I expect that you/me/we are now going to start calling Ramona's/Mario's marriage "open" now as well because rumor (just like with Luann/Count) is that they cheated on each other throughout most of their marriage. LOL

[tenativelyyours]

Ugh having issues with quoting today.

 

First, I do wonder if that "some guy" was the still publicly married man she is now with -- still married but publicly flinging with the Frankelstein's Monster. 

Second, I wonder if she had a smidgen of self-awareness in her "moment of truth" she was shoving down Luann's throat.  That she, at the time, was with a man who was cheating.  With her.  How ironic is that.  Flinging Tom's cheating in Luann's face.  With Pics.  I hope at the reunion Luann asks if someone sent pics of the man she is with to His Wife?  Pics of him with the Monster?  Also?  Maybe this man Frankelstein's monster is with fell out of love with the only woman he has been with since he said his vows and the Monster is his first infidelity (cause it is until the papers are in motion and your ass is in separate residences in my opinion).  But he is willing to start something with another woman while still married to another?  I'm guessing Frankelstein's Monster might just have to worry about who might be sending photos in the wee hours about him kissing someone else.  Which makes me think barring that self-absorbed lack of awareness, she already doesn't wonder, he does with you to do it to his current wife?  He'll probably do it to you with someone else.  If he hasn't already.

And again,  maybe that is something that comes up at the reunion?  The fact that while Luann took up with Tom and perhaps is trying to get past his infidelity, Frankelstein's Monster essentially not only went out and got a full fledged open to the world cheater.  She might have actually created him.  Does that make him the Bride of Frankelstein's Monster somehow?

Again, I hope Luann points out the raging hypocrisy that the Monster is screeching and cackling about.  And I loathe Luann.  How rich is that?  I'm still not sure which old gif I enjoy more.  The Monster's whipped turn to Ramona after being told she would always be alone or the kick to the crotch thrown back head of indignation when Ramona dares to point out there is an age difference between Luann and Alex (we all know Luann had likely goggled the benefits of an AARP membership well before she even auditioned for the show -- snotty snob she tried to be but she does have a certain grasping pragmatism when all is said and done -- if she marries Tom I can see her sneaking down the road in West Palm to see if there are any Parson's Table like places with a sturdy early bird's special). 

Normally I would cackle like The Monster watching a child's just received ice cream cone hit the pavement.  But here I just find her so repugnant and foul. 

[BananaRama]

14 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Oh, I can understand Beth being upset because the other women were late but Carole apologized.  Let it go Beth and stop harping. 

It sounds like Carole is late a lot.  It is understandable if someone is late occasionally, but if it is a habit - then that is rude and narcissistic.  This is the first time ever that I was glad that Bethenney opened her big mouth.  

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, esco1822 said:

I don't know about everyone else but I don't think it's pathetic she chooses to live her life that way,  I think it's sad which is different.  I think it's sad that she doesn't feel like she's worthy of being treated better by her partners.  The thing is she DOES explain and announce the details of her relationships she just changes them along the way as they suit her. Remember when Ramona outed her at the reunion years ago and said she was in an open marriage?  She vociferously denied it, then admitted it and now is saying "yeah but it wasn't my choice."  This is all so she can play the victim when everything falls apart.  If she just admitted it from the start instead of pretending to be someone she's not, it wouldn't be such a big deal. 

Luann asked the others to not talk about her marriage/divorce on camera because she/they had young kids that might one day see the footage and she wanted to protect them. Is that a bad thing to do, put her children's feelings/security before her own hurt/anger? For me, it sounds like good parenting, loving your kids more than hating your soon to be ex.  Now, her kids are grown and she can answer some of the nasty accusations made by Ramona, Bethenny and Carole's on camera questions. IMO, it's that simple.

14 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Oh, she said that in the episode? I didn't notice.

Yes, she said that to Carole as they were getting off the boat.

[ElDosEquis]

30 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

Much as I agree with the comments on Ramona's Barbie hair and choice of attire, that's not her problem.  Even if she lost 20  pounds and fixed her hair she would still be a sreechy, insecure, selfish, self centered, immature woman who doesn't know how to behave in public or in a group of friends.  She's not fun.  She's like her dancing-she's supposed to be having fun but it looks weirdly awkward and painful.  In this last episode I could really see why Tom was attracted to Luann as a partner as opposed to any of the other women.  She's always up and good to go, she doesn't seem to like to sit around gossiping about others and drinking, she holds her liquor well when she does drink and she seems like a basically happy person that loves life.  That's a lot more than can be said about the other mopes on the show this season.

She also has that extra tooth thing and another unique characteristic that I won't mention here?

You could take the Countess to the "sandbar" or a Monster Truck Race, she'd find something good about the date?

[islandgal140]

47 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I am beginning to wonder what is going on with Doris.  It seems like most episodes involve her being so wasted she is slurring her words and I can't understand what the hell she is saying.  Is she an alcoholic or does she have some sort of neurological disorder (if its booze, STOP!)?  She may be nice and a good friend but she is sloppy and I find myself waiting for the spittle or food to come flying out of her mouth when she is trying to speak (and it sounds like she is speaking in tongues).

I try to give Doris a little leeway. She seems to have a bit of a speech impediment, if it could even be classified as that, but once she starts imbibing it just gets that much more pronounced. I don't believe that she is so wasted that she slurs, I think the alcohol (whether she is just slightly tipsy or all out drunk) makes her sober sort of slurry speak pattern, that much more slurry and probably gives the impression of appearing more 'drunk' than she actually is.  

[HumblePi]

Depending on what age you are, or what sexuality beliefs you hold near and dear, LuAnn de Lesseps is either a woman with loose moral values and should be vilified or she's a modern woman with an open mind when it comes to sexuality and should be commended for it.  LuAnn experienced an open marriage with the Count Alexandre de Lesseps out of sheer necessity. Alex, it seems, was quite a womanizer and cheated frequently. In order to continue a marriage with him and raise her two children in the lavish lifestyle she had become accustomed to, she not only put up with his philandering, she was complicit in it by also doing a bit of cheating on her own with Jacques. So whatever Luann chooses in regard to the 'news' of Tom and any womanizing he does, she's certainly not naive enough to think that this isn't going to happen going forward. The terms for an 'open marriage' seem to have already been established by each of them.

[HumblePi]

14 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

I try to give Doris a little leeway. She seems to have a bit of a speech impediment, if it could even be classified as that, but once she starts imbibing it just gets that much more pronounced. I don't believe that she is so wasted that she slurs, I think the alcohol (whether she is just slightly tipsy or all out drunk) makes her sober sort of slurry speak pattern, that much more slurry and probably gives the impression of appearing more 'drunk' than she actually is.  

The medical term for Dorinda's speech impediment is called 'vodkosis'

[bosawks]

9 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

The medical term for Dorinda's speech impediment is called 'vodkosis'

I thought Latin for "vodkosis" was "I made it nice!"

[Natalie68]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

Dorindish is not yet available on Google Translate.

Before watching, 3 glasses of the alcoholic beverage of your choice helps. You still won't understand, but you'll be too drunk to care and find it hilarious. You'll be playing watch that piece of rice move around Dorinda's half-lipsticked mouth. If it makes a full circle, take a shot.

Guess I better get some booze for next week!  I kept rewinding and trying to figure it out.  My problem was I was sober!  

I honestly don't know what is going on with Lu.  I think the relationship is either made up (story line) or he's the only one that didn't ask her to go home in the morning (or vice versa).  They have ZERO chemistry.  Perhaps what others are seeing as her being hurt was more of an OH FUCK! they will know this was strictly for story line.  I asked my husband (who had the misfortune of walking through the room) what he saw when he looked at Tom and Lu (the repeat of him getting on the boat) greeting each other.  His remark was no chemistry this is just for show.  He's a good read but he also gives zero fucks so it might have been to get back to his computer more quickly.

I don't think B had PIs or any bs like that to get the goods on her costars.  I think she actually cares very little about most of them but what she DOES care about is good tv.  I suspect she knows many people in NY who work and hang out at these bar (she DOES sell liquor) and it came to her organically (or production).  Because if Lu was yammering on about her new soulmate (guess her soul has many mates; Alex, Jaques, and now Tom) and being all creepily gloaty to those she knows, they may have thought Lu needs to know this info.  To either humiliate her or warn her.  Depends on what this bar paparazzi thinks about her.  I don't see the marriage happening.  It is 4 months away.  

[njbchlover]

5 minutes ago, bosawks said:

I thought Latin for "vodkosis" was "I made it nice!"

I still want that on a t-shirt!   :-)

[Ki-in]

I don't understand their obsession with Luann's open marriage, unless they are afraid it's going to give their men ideas.

A lot of women are in open marriages but they just don't know they are.

At least Luann and the Count were able to come to an understanding and give their kids a happy family life and they parted amicably.

I thought it was funny when Carole was standing right next to the car door when they were leaving for dinner and they were saying 'Where's Carole?" She really does just fade into the background.

Didn't Carole have a blog about how she would want to know if anyone even saw Adam talking to another female and she'd want to be told immediately? So why is she all, don't tell Lu?

Did anyone else catch how after Luann left in tears Bethenny went to the mirror and was talking to herself about how this was meant be and how good her hair looked? Sociopath, right? Or is she a psychopath?

[teapot]

15 hours ago, escatefromny said:

This episode annoyed the crap out of me.  Bethany keep crowing that they got 3 extra episodes out of her shannagins and she sure put herself in the center of things on her terms:. "clock in" drop a bomb, "clock out", she milked it for all it was worth.  At the end of the dinner she asked: is there anymore food coming? No? I'm out of here and she fled.  Her "avoidance" of Luanne was so transparently about her getting more scenes.  Just tell her already, gheeeze!  Also, I absolutely noticed that despite her fish allergy (cause of the big scene with Heather at Dorinda's last year) she was the first to grab at the seafood tower when it hit the table.

Dorinda's "sand bar" excursion was pretty sad (where were all the food truck boats?) but she let it slip at dinner that she really didn't "plan" it.  And Carole, WTF??!!! for an alleged pot head, you are the worst munchie/junk food sourcer in the world!

Ramona lumbering to the dinner table to save seats and Bethany braying get a set for ME did crack me up, only bright spot of the episode.

It was kinda middle-school, Carole sort of sidled over & looked around like , "*I* wanna sit next to Bethenny!"  but she was on the *outs* for being late!  BAD CAROLE!!

[KungFuBunny]

30 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

The medical term for Dorinda's speech impediment is called 'vodkosis'

The proper term for Dorinda’s double fisted, pistol-twirling arm motions is Daerobics

[izabella]

12 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

Didn't Carole have a blog about how she would want to know if anyone even saw Adam talking to another female and she'd want to be told immediately? So why is she all, don't tell Lu?

I'm sure she would want to be told...off camera, in private, by someone who had her best interests in mind instead of by the person who had been attacking her for months and was drooling in glee to do it.  Which is the opposite of what Bethy was suggesting or doing.

Edited August 18, 2016 by izabella

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Luann asked the others to not talk about her marriage/divorce on camera because she/they had young kids that might one day see the footage and she wanted to protect them. Is that a bad thing to do, put her children's feelings/security before her own hurt/anger? For me, it sounds like good parenting, loving your kids more than hating your soon to be ex.  Now, her kids are grown and she can answer some of the nasty accusations made by Ramona, Bethenny and Carole's on camera questions. IMO, it's that simple.

If Luann didn't want her kids to see the footage about her marriage to the count one day and be upset by it, why is she creating new footage about her marriage to the count for them to see now and be upset by?  That doesn't make sense.

I do believe Luann's concern about her kids is partially genuine, but I think she is also motivated by a desire to present an image to the world that is not completely truthful.  I think that is what really bothers the other women so much ... not the way Lu lives her life, but that she is not honest about it on the show.  Which is kind of funny because they are all for the most part as dishonest as hell about their own lives, but for various reasons they aren't willing to let Luann get away with it.  Maybe it's because she is such a snob and it grates? Or because she doesn't just conceal stuff the way they do, Luann actually creates a huge false show?  Or she is just better at keeping things quiet than they are and they resent it?   ??  I can only guess, but the other ladies do seem incredibly focused on pulling back Luann's curtain for some reason. More on that later ....

As far as Luann being pathetic or sad or if she is just weighing the damage caused by her man stepping out vs. leaving the relationship, nah.  That's not how I see it.  Not at all.  I think Luann is just as into having an open relationship as either the count or Tom.  I think Lu likes to sample random peen regularly and she wants the freedom to do so without having to break off her relationship and the trade off is letting your man have his share of adventures.  Everyone is just supposed to be discreet and nobody is supposed to fall in love with someone else and screw it all up.  That is what I think went wrong with the count.  She and Alex were sailing along on separate continents with this convenient relationship that Luann enjoyed as much as Alex did and what messed it all up was Alex falling in love with some kind of "princess" or whatever she was and deciding he wanted a divorce so he could go public with this woman. I think they'd still be together if this hadn't happened.  And now Tom is messing things up by getting caught canoodling with another woman.  It's not the deal breaker Alex's behavior was, obviously, but it is embarrassing as hell.  But it is not necessarily the end of their relationship.  

I think Luann and Tom are just going to trudge their way through it, hope it fades from the memories of everybody, and get married just like they planned and then return to slinking around getting some on the side.  But the problem is the other women on the show know this.  I think that is what is really bothering them and that is why they are so determined to "out" what Tom did on the air.

It's Luann's marriage to the count all over again ... she is lording her wonderful relationship with Tom over everybody the same way she lorded her wonderful marriage to the count over everyone when they knew it was bullshit.  That is why they tried to expose her then and that is why they want to expose her now.  The thing is that Luann just goes too far ... if she treated her thing with Tom like a regular relationship and not some kind of super-magical, written in the stars soulmate crap and stopped rubbing it in the faces of newly divorced Bethenny and Ramona and poor rejected Sonja, they might not resent her so much.  She basically brought all this on herself by being so damn smug and superior and full of herself.  Because being fake is one thing, but being fake and arrogant and insensitive as hell is another. 

Of course that doesn't mean I am down with the way certain cast members are taking joy in humiliating and hurting her, but I kind of get it.  I don't like it and it makes me think less of them (which is hard to do because I already can't stand Beth/Ramona/Carole), but I get it. 

[80sgirl]

22 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

I don't understand their obsession with Luann's open marriage, unless they are afraid it's going to give their men ideas.

A lot of women are in open marriages but they just don't know they are.

At least Luann and the Count were able to come to an understanding and give their kids a happy family life and they parted amicably.

I thought it was funny when Carole was standing right next to the car door when they were leaving for dinner and they were saying 'Where's Carole?" She really does just fade into the background.

Didn't Carole have a blog about how she would want to know if anyone even saw Adam talking to another female and she'd want to be told immediately? So why is she all, don't tell Lu?

Did anyone else catch how after Luann left in tears Bethenny went to the mirror and was talking to herself about how this was meant be and how good her hair looked? Sociopath, right? Or is she a psychopath?

Bethenny going to the mirror to check her makeup happened after she tried to call Tom while Sonja was in the room, not after she talked to Luann.

Edited August 18, 2016 by 80sgirl
dumbness

[HumblePi]

Edited August 19, 2016 by HumblePi

[Ki-in]

4 minutes ago, 80sgirl said:

Bethenny going to the mirror to check her makeup happened after she tried to call Tom while Sonja was in the room, not after she talked to Luann.

Ok, you're right. :)  

What would she have even said to Tom if she had gotten him on the phone?

[Maisie Palmzer]

For me, this all boils down to how horrible Beth is. She really was gloating about Lu's situation and just couldn't wait to be cruel. She makes me so uneasy whenever she is on the screen. She chooses her target and is unmerciful. 

I never thought I could dislike a housewife more than Brandi, but Beth is worse in my opinion. 

The rumor that she might not come back? She will be back, how else will any of the women on the show will be able to function without her opinion?  

[Sai]

3 hours ago, rhys said:

Many years (decades?) ago, I read in Ann Landers or Dear Abby that if one learns of a cheater (Tom), one (Beth) confronts him ~not~ the cheatee (Lu). So, Beth was correct in trying to reach Tom.  Kind of like saying: "Tom, you need to tell Lu as a courtesy at least since others already are aware of your indiscretions. You owe that to Lu."

I think that's why she wanted to talk to Tom on the phone.

Ah....but calling Tom was Sonja's idea.  I guess Chrissy Snow isn't as ditzy as we thought. :) 

[Knuckles]

20 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

after Luann left in tears Bethenny went to the mirror and was talking to herself about how this was meant be and how good her hair looked? Sociopath, right?

Interesting, but I had turned the thing off by then, the whole set-up with Beth was revolting. She is, of course, a perfect hypocrite, as are all the other women for playing along with this. She is the one screwing a married man who has children, not Lu. She is the one demanding privacy, while interrogating Lu as if she is a criminal.

I've lived in NY a long time, and have a handful of incredibly close friends, and I would never ask about the details of their marriages. Never. Some things are sacred between the people involved and a close friend understands and respects that. And truth, there is no knowing what is really between two people, unless you are one of them. I wish my friends all the best and would never insert myself into their relationships. 

It is no one's business how Lu conducts her life, or her relationships, unless she chooses to share that information. None of these knuckleheads seem to know how to live an adult life. Lu should never have responded to inappropriate questions...or simply parried with "and why do you feel you need to ask that question"?  Why not ask Bethy "so, did Jason ever find another woman, or did you simply discover that you hated one another"? or words to that effect. Or. better, let the question hang in silence.  

[motorcitymom65]

3 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

 

Yeah it's.... confusing to say the least.  I said last week (well 2 weeks ago) that I remembered Lu admitting that she DID have an open marriage, but was told that I was incorrect. But now she is admitting that she DID have one --- but it wasn't by her own choice. 

I was thrilled to see this included last night. One big fat thing that has been debated around here put to rest. I have been reading for several years that Lu never talked about having an open marriage. That this was just some nasty rumor started by Ramona and Beth (well, Beth's name got thrown in this year. I don't believe she was ever accused of this before this current season). There was no way to debate this away, because according to so many, there was no open marriage. Of course it was ridiculous, because they all knew that she had an open marriage and it has never been a secret. 

Regarding the reveal last night, we never saw it on the actual episode - they just showed it during a flashback last night. Every time they do this I'm reminded of all the stuff that happens that we never see. All of the things that the gals are responding to and talking about that we don't fully understand, because there is so much footage that we never get to see. There was no doubt a lot more to what Lu was saying when she was telling the gals about her open marriage, but we saw none of it. Which is a shame. 

[teapot]

10 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Interesting, but I had turned the thing off by then, the whole set-up with Beth was revolting. She is, of course, a perfect hypocrite, as are all the other women for playing along with this. She is the one screwing a married man who has children, not Lu. She is the one demanding privacy, while interrogating Lu as if she is a criminal.

I've lived in NY a long time, and have a handful of incredibly close friends, and I would never ask about the details of their marriages. Never. Some things are sacred between the people involved and a close friend understands and respects that. And truth, there is no knowing what is really between two people, unless you are one of them. I wish my friends all the best and would never insert myself into their relationships. 

It is no one's business how Lu conducts her life, or her relationships, unless she chooses to share that information. None of these knuckleheads seem to know how to live an adult life. Lu should never have responded to inappropriate questions...or simply parried with "and why do you feel you need to ask that question"?  Why not ask Bethy "so, did Jason ever find another woman, or did you simply discover that you hated one another"? or words to that effect. Or. better, let the question hang in silence.  

I think having judgey!eyes! is getting *everyone* in trouble on all of these HW shows...okay, maybe not Vicki & Brooks from OC, you can't lie about that shit & she brought the Dubrows into it. 

But everyone's mad at Lu b/c she won't "come clean" about who she is or, what her relationship really is.

On RHONJ, Jacqueline's mad at Teresa b/c she won't admit to her wrongdoing regarding the fraud, or selling her stories to tabloids.

The way I see it;  you're either friends or you're not.  Some people are very open, and some aren't. I tend to be, so I pause when I get an "I don't want to talk about it," but now that I'm older, I think I'll hear about something and just ask my friend "hey how's things?  you ok?" and go w/whatever response I get.

(I am not gonna sit here & tell you that, unless it's a super-close friend or family member, in which case I take their stance to anyone who asks, I don't dish about it with my *other* friends, but...)

[Yours Truly]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Well, yes and no. Luann clarified to Carole that the first 12 years of her marriage were traditional but the last 4 were "open" and against her wishes. Yes, it was her choice to accept those terms or not but it isn't the other HWs place to judge her or to make blanket statements about a situation they don't have all the information on either, yet they did. So I expect that you/me/we are now going to start calling Ramona's/Mario's marriage "open" now as well because rumor (just like with Luann/Count) is that they cheated on each other throughout most of their marriage. LOL

Annnddd Ramona tried to reconcile/hold together her marriage as a last ditch effort there at the end when she knew good and well that Mario had both feet out the door already.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

why is it pathetic that she chooses to live her life that way? At the worst it's different than what other people would do. So curious why this is something the other women fault Lu for. It's all a part of the package of why they don't like her. Because she accepts things in her life that the others "wouldn't" <eyeroll>. Either way I don't get why that should be something that angers others or annoys others or causes ill will toward Lu from others. So she likes to stay in a committed relationship at all costs and doesn't find the need to explain it or announce the details of it to nosey nasty women who have no good intentions towards her. Very intriguing how it's more offensive that Lu participates in such arrangements than women going on and on and on rudely, and nastily about a women who doesn't affect their lives at all.

Crazy.

If LuAnn's goal is to stay in a committed relationship "at all costs", then yeah, I think that's pathetic.  If LuAnn *wanted* to be in an open marriage, then yay, good for her.  However, LuAnn said that she didn't want an "open marriage" with the Count, which means she stayed married to a man for four years and he fucked around and didn't hide it from her, and he either knew that it was hurting her and did it anyway (and she stuck around for it) or she didn't have the courage to stick up for herself and tell him that no, she was not OK with this.  Either way, I find it pathetic.....but as she said in the episode "I just want to get down the aisle with this man!".  At all costs. 

Fuck that.

1 hour ago, esco1822 said:

It's the natural assumption because she herself said how miserable she was about it.  

Thanks for pointing this out! 

1 hour ago, HumblePi said:

Depending on what age you are, or what sexuality beliefs you hold near and dear, LuAnn de Lesseps is either a woman with loose moral values and should be vilified or she's a modern woman with an open mind when it comes to sexuality and should be commended for it.  LuAnn experienced an open marriage with the Count Alexandre de Lesseps out of sheer necessity. Alex, it seems, was quite a womanizer and cheated frequently. In order to continue a marriage with him and raise her two children in the lavish lifestyle she had become accustomed to, she not only put up with his philandering, she was complicit in it by also doing a bit of cheating on her own with Jacques. So whatever Luann chooses in regard to the 'news' of Tom and any womanizing he does, she's certainly not naive enough to think that this isn't going to happen going forward. The terms for an 'open marriage' seem to have already been established by each of them.

This.  It's one thing to have infidelity in a relationship and make the decision to stay together.  I get that, I respect that.  People are not perfect, they make mistakes or bad choices or drift apart.  If you can both say hey, let's work on this and you decide to forgive, I say more power to you.  That's quite different than knowing your husband is carrying on extra marital affairs (which he either knows is hurting you or you've lied to him and yourself that you are OK with it because you are desperate) and staying in the marriage because you want the security of a man/relationship/marriage. 

[Duke2801]

55 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

A lot of women are in open marriages but they just don't know they are.

Then it's not an open marriage.  An open marriage, by definition, is one in which both partners agree to have sexual relations with others. 

If only one party knows about it, it's just cheating.

[seasick]

16 hours ago, SweetPickle said:

Bethenny calling Sonja, Chrissy Snow, cracked me up! That was gold. 

Does anyone else think production was the one to send Beth the pics of Tom? I thought it from the beginning and then when she said "I'm not the one doing this to you". That really made me think production sent the pics and told her she had to tell her on camera. 

I'm actually beginning to think the entire Tom kiss was orchestrated by production! The entire season has been this and of course now the juicy cliffhanger ending ('I"m sure).  And Bethy the star of it all!!!   

And I almost wouldn't put it past Lu to be in on the whole plot in order to stay front and center.  I'm a Lu fan and I doubt she'd be okay with the public embarrassment and Bethy being the one to know--but I don't want to be too naive about what lengths any of them will go to stay relevant.  

If all for real, bethy should have kept her big mouth shut.  Okay, tell your Gf from Miami--that's it.  Any decent person would have found this information sickening, and certainly not made sure that the person involved (Lu) was the last to know.     I've said before the truth "will out" in time with no help from anyone.  I can even admit that Lu's soul-mate love story borders on delusional, but let her have it.  

And of course they had to go to Bagatelle so they could continue to slurp and chew on this delicious news.  Kudo's to Carole for not participating.  I've been pretty hard on her but I think she has some scruples.  But again! Carole!  With the dunderhead moves.  You go and get ONE hot dog--for you.  You grab the whole hors d' ouvres plate offered to keep as your own.. you eat directly off the buffet--  Girl.  

I'm only at page one but had to respond to this.  Sorry if my suspicions and sentiments have already been stated.

[WireWrap]

49 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

If Luann didn't want her kids to see the footage about her marriage to the count one day and be upset by it, why is she creating new footage about her marriage to the count for them to see now and be upset by?  That doesn't make sense.

 

I don't think she wanted the kids to find out while they were still in school and Noel graduated last year, so she can talk about it if she chooses. I think she decided to be honest/open about it to Carole because she asked Luann without judgement or a nasty comment before hand. She also clarified that it wasn't something she wanted but went along with and that they had a traditional marriage for the first 12 years with only the last 4 being an "open" marriage.

20 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Annnddd Ramona tried to reconcile/hold together her marriage as a last ditch effort their at the end when she knew good and well that Mario had both feet out the door already.

Why Yes!  Just like Luann did with the Count and their marriage! LOL

[Yours Truly]

50 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

If Luann didn't want her kids to see the footage about her marriage to the count one day and be upset by it, why is she creating new footage about her marriage to the count for them to see now and be upset by?  That doesn't make sense.

I do believe Luann's concern about her kids is partially genuine, but I think she is also motivated by a desire to present an image to the world that is not completely truthful.  I think that is what really bothers the other women so much ... not the way Lu lives her life, but that she is not honest about it on the show.  Which is kind of funny because they are all for the most part as dishonest as hell about their own lives, but for various reasons they aren't willing to let Luann get away with it.  Maybe it's because she is such a snob and it grates? Or because she doesn't just conceal stuff the way they do, Luann actually creates a huge false show?  Or she is just better at keeping things quiet than they are and they resent it?   ??  I can only guess, but the other ladies do seem incredibly focused on pulling back Luann's curtain for some reason. More on that later ....

As far as Luann being pathetic or sad or if she is just weighing the damage caused by her man stepping out vs. leaving the relationship, nah.  That's not how I see it.  Not at all.  I think Luann is just as into having an open relationship as either the count or Tom.  I think Lu likes to sample random peen regularly and she wants the freedom to do so without having to break off her relationship and the trade off is letting your man have his share of adventures.  Everyone is just supposed to be discreet and nobody is supposed to fall in love with someone else and screw it all up.  That is what I think went wrong with the count.  She and Alex were sailing along on separate continents with this convenient relationship that Luann enjoyed as much as Alex did and what messed it all up was Alex falling in love with some kind of "princess" or whatever she was and deciding he wanted a divorce so he could go public with this woman. I think they'd still be together if this hadn't happened.  And now Tom is messing things up by getting caught canoodling with another woman.  It's not the deal breaker Alex's behavior was, obviously, but it is embarrassing as hell.  But it is not necessarily the end of their relationship.  

I think Luann and Tom are just going to trudge their way through it, hope it fades from the memories of everybody, and get married just like they planned and then return to slinking around getting some on the side.  But the problem is the other women on the show know this.  I think that is what is really bothering them and that is why they are so determined to "out" what Tom did on the air.

It's Luann's marriage to the count all over again ... she is lording her wonderful relationship with Tom over everybody the same way she lorded her wonderful marriage to the count over everyone when they knew it was bullshit.  That is why they tried to expose her then and that is why they want to expose her now.  The thing is that Luann just goes too far ... if she treated her thing with Tom like a regular relationship and not some kind of super-magical, written in the stars soulmate crap and stopped rubbing it in the faces of newly divorced Bethenny and Ramona and poor rejected Sonja, they might not resent her so much.  She basically brought all this on herself by being so damn smug and superior and full of herself.  Because being fake is one thing, but being fake and arrogant and insensitive as hell is another. 

Of course that doesn't mean I am down with the way certain cast members are taking joy in humiliating and hurting her, but I kind of get it.  I don't like it and it makes me think less of them (which is hard to do because I already can't stand Beth/Ramona/Carole), but I get it. 

Hold on wait. If that is the arrangement and Lu enjoys it just as much as her partner then how is that bullshit? They love each other enough to want to be each others companions which to some people, me included, thinks is more important of a find and something to be ecstatic about than fidelity (if in fact fidelity isn't a requirement to your bliss). She has every right to bounce around happy cause if that's what it takes for her to be happy then it isn't BS. And she shouldn't have to outline the conditions of her and her partners happiness either cause having an arrangement like that doesn't change the bond two people make with each other.  It's not selling out if she too likes those parameters and it's not lying if in fact it gives them the desired happiness they both are looking for. Just because there seems to be perks in their arrangements doesn't automatically mean it's smooth sailing and their union is any less challenging or that she's boasting about something she or they don't put work into. There is no reason why, because of the arrangement, Lu and Tom can't express pride in their relationship or should feel like they can't claim marital bliss just because they don't plan on conducting their marriage like others do.  I don't get why she can't express pride or happiness or magical and written in the stars status. It's only magical if they are traditional? It can't be written in the stars if they decide to have an open marriage. One thing does not have to do with the other for some people. I think she can be over the moon about the upcoming nuptials and have an open relationship at the same time. I wouldn't deny her her right to be giddy and gushing because those particular circumstances wouldn't be MY fairytale ending and I find it ridiculous to be so blissful about an arrangement like that but if it is for HER then leave it be.

[Yours Truly]

30 minutes ago, shoegal said:

If LuAnn's goal is to stay in a committed relationship "at all costs", then yeah, I think that's pathetic.  If LuAnn *wanted* to be in an open marriage, then yay, good for her.  However, LuAnn said that she didn't want an "open marriage" with the Count, which means she stayed married to a man for four years and he fucked around and didn't hide it from her, and he either knew that it was hurting her and did it anyway (and she stuck around for it) or she didn't have the courage to stick up for herself and tell him that no, she was not OK with this.  Either way, I find it pathetic.....but as she said in the episode "I just want to get down the aisle with this man!".  At all costs. 

Fuck that.

Thanks for pointing this out! 

This.  It's one thing to have infidelity in a relationship and make the decision to stay together.  I get that, I respect that.  People are not perfect, they make mistakes or bad choices or drift apart.  If you can both say hey, let's work on this and you decide to forgive, I say more power to you.  That's quite different than knowing your husband is carrying on extra marital affairs (which he either knows is hurting you or you've lied to him and yourself that you are OK with it because you are desperate) and staying in the marriage because you want the security of a man/relationship/marriage. 

Some people are ride or die like that. Some people just don't understand that level of loyalty.

I get it.

There is more to life than sex. There are more things to consider than just one detail.

Like I said some people are wired to be ride or die.

Some aren't.

But it does have it's consequences. Shame that outside judgements are one them.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Yours Truly

[mwell345]

16 hours ago, WireWrap said:

No, on her radio show, Bethenny says she was sent a text with pictures from some guy she know and she took it to the producers so they could get the guy to sign the release and appear on camera. Her comment, "I'm not the one doing this to you", was that Tom cheated on Luann, so it was Tom that did this to her.

She took it "to the producers" - and that tells me all I need to know about Bethenny and her "integrity".  How would that have ever been the right thing to do...and if the tables were turned and it was done to her?  Oh, but that's right, HER private life is off limits.  

[Mondrianyone]

43 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Every time they do this I'm reminded of all the stuff that happens that we never see. All of the things that the gals are responding to and talking about that we don't fully understand, because there is so much footage that we never get to see.

This is so true.  And at the very top of the list of things we never see--or hear about--I would put essentially any- and everything about Bethenny's life and relationships.  All of the things that no one dares respond to or even talk about.  Yet what we do see on camera is her being judge, jury, and executioner on the subject of everyone else's life and relationships.  Nice work if you can get it.  Or maybe "nice" isn't exactly the right word.

[shoegal]

If LuAnn and Tom have an open relationship and LuAnn is A-OK with it and in fact, downright enjoys the freedom, then why was she so bothered by Bethenny asking if Tom and Lu were monogamous?  Her response indicates to me that she's either not OK with it, she's a liar, or she's faking shit for the sake her image/the show. 

[Midnight Cheese]

Ramona is gales more pathetic in terms of how her marriage went down and next week, true to form, she fakes tears and screams that Tom's behavior triggered bad memories for her.  Uh, good?  And she looks like a chubby macrame-covered fake-chesticled Tammy Sue Bakker, may she rest in peace, with those lashes.  She is just not fun.  She's an old lady who gets anxious at the thought that her wine of choice won't be at hand for her 11 am boozing.

No one, even Tom, has screwed Sonja nearly as well as she and her delusions have messed with her.  Lord.  

Bethenny obviously wanted Lu to flip and scream that her info was false etc., thus the preamble (where she said she didn't want to get into whether her stuff was true or false....she put as much pressure and pain on Lu as she could.)  You could see the dawning realization on Beth's fucked face that her viciousness would be perceptible to many, many, many viewers, and that it was going to be hard to be the underdog queen victim this time.   She's a bad person

Carole was great this episode.  I'm holding out hope for her yet.

[esco1822]

3 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Hold on wait. If that is the arrangement and Lu enjoys it just as much as her partner then how is that bullshit?

But does she enjoy it?  She specifically said she didn't like it with The Count. She specifically said she and Tom are monogamous.  That's the whole thing, Bethenny didn't want to tell Lu if her relationship with Tom, like her relationship with The Count, was open. That's why she asked the question.  If Lu and Tom were in an open relationship, Tom kissing another woman would be a moot point. But Lu said they were monogamous and then grandstanded about it and how inappropriate a question it was, etc. If she just came out and said she and Tom were in an open relationship, I would have no issue with her.  Wouldn't be my choice but if she's OK with that type of arrangement then so be it.  So either she is really not OK with Tom kissing another woman or she's lying about being in a monogamous relationship with him.