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The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

Ljohnson1987

By Ljohnson1987
in Counting On

Scarlett45
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doodlebug
doodlebug

While I generally find the Duggars' views on gender roles reprehensible, learning to sew is a great skill to have, whether as a hobby or a career.  Sure, these girls probably weren't offered a chance

doodlebug
doodlebug

I dunno, it doesn't bother me like old dudes in banana hammocks.  But I am one of those weirdos who thinks pregnant women's bodies are amazing.  I also agree that Amy is looking darned good and I don'

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

Ah, yes, Duggar Family Official. So deeply concerned about the unborn.  But when it comes to the born-but-then-dropped-after-six-months-like-a-hot-potato-people, they don't concern you a bit

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Julia

Julia

(edited)

Ok, wow. Way too many fonts in that thing, and whoever had the idea that the cartoony script font was a good choice with the weedy swash font was deeply mistaken.

Interesting that the media information was in clear, legible sans serif faces, like that's the information she wanted to be sure everyone read and understood. I have to assume she sold the rights to People and they're contingent on no other pictures getting out, because a couple who practically handed out torches in hopes that the villagers would storm TLC and force them to televise their wedding is probably not going to become fastidious at this late stage.

Also, with a whole lot less exposure, I'm already more tired of Amy's ain't I cute scrunchy face than I am of Jessa's doe-eyed pouty selfies, and that's saying a considerable amount.

Edited by Julia
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CofCinci

CofCinci

(edited)

Amy is so transparent. When she requests that invitees do not share venue details, she actually begging for them too.

"But I definitely have morals and standards," she says.

Do you now, Amy? Do you? You've thrown your cousins under the bus to remain in PEOPLE's good graces. Also, you practically give your fiancé a beejay in your engagement photos and most of us think this is a shotgun wedding. Edited by CofCinci
  • Love 10
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

Do you now, Amy? Do you? You've thrown your cousins under the bus to remain in PEOPLE's good graces. Also, you practically give your fiancé a beejay in your engagement photos and most of us think this is a shotgun wedding.

 

To be fair, she didn't tell us what kind of "morals and standards" she has. The word "low" may have been implied.

Edited by Churchhoney
  • Love 13
Julia

Julia

I don't know that much about Amy but what I do know about Amy I like - she kisses, frontal hugs, listens to NON Gothard approved music, wears regular clothes, and does not let JB dictate her life.

But she was more than willing to help sell his bizarre lifestyle to young women if it meant she could be on TV. Now that she can't, we're hearing about how much fun she is. It's distasteful, JMO.

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Defrauder

Defrauder

But she was more than willing to help sell his bizarre lifestyle to young women if it meant she could be on TV. Now that she can't, we're hearing about how much fun she is. It's distasteful, JMO.

I don't know about that because she didn't adhere to his rules of 'modest' dress.  She doesn't follow his 'courtship' rules.  She refused to follow the rules of no music or tv.  She really never let him rule her.  She defied his rules for all the world to see.  Take that JB.

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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

But she was more than willing to help sell his bizarre lifestyle to young women if it meant she could be on TV. Now that she can't, we're hearing about how much fun she is. It's distasteful, JMO.

She clearly never followed his rules, or even endorsed them. A free trip to Europe would satisfy me. A trip to Japan would've got my endorsement (I don't think she got to go for that one). Edited by Kokapetl
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Julia

Julia

(edited)

I don't know about that because she didn't adhere to his rules of 'modest' dress.  She doesn't follow his 'courtship' rules.  She refused to follow the rules of no music or tv.  She really never let him rule her.  She defied his rules for all the world to see.  Take that JB.

 

How did she refuse? Her parents are not Gothardites. Her mother is a performer. She was not raised by Jim Bob's rules. The only reason she ever came in contact with Jim Bob's rules is that she chose to start spending a great deal of time with the family when they just happened to be filming a TV show there was waning interest in and the producers went with promoting attractive young women as a way to kickstart the franchise.

 

She's not a rebel. Jim Bob Duggar was never the boss of her, and she was never subject to his headship. She's an opportunist who was just fine with promoting Jim Bob and Michelle and their political and cultural ambitions because it served her purpose. Now it doesn't any more. And frankly, I'm a liberal from New York, and I think she could wear her skirts a little longer. I don't need to be the girl's gynecologist to be convinced she's "fun."

Edited by Julia
  • Love 13
kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

How did she refuse? Her parents are not Gothardites. Her mother is a performer. She was not raised by Jim Bob's rules. The only reason she ever came in contact with Jim Bob's rules is that she chose to start spending a great deal of time with the family when they just happened to be filming a TV show there was waning interest in and the producers went with promoting attractive young women as a way to kickstart the franchise.

She's not a rebel. Jim Bob Duggar was never the boss of her, and she was never subject to his rules. She's an opportunist who was just fine with promoting Jim Bob and Michelle and their political and cultural ambitions because it served her purpose. Now it doesn't any more. And frankly, I'm a liberal from New York, and I think she could wear her skirts a little longer. I don't need to be the girl's gynecologist to be convinced she's "fun."

well it can't be argued that she ever complied with his rules, she literally never complied with his dress code, she didn't do any courting BS. Except in a few of the early specials, the political and cultural ambitions of the Duggars were never really displayed on the show. She didn't need to rebel, because the show was not about Gothardism, Quiverfull-icity or religion.

I don't think it can be overemphasized to people who didn't watch the show, the show was NOT about religion, Quiverfull or Gothardism. The producers actively avoided those subjects.

Edited by Kokapetl
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

.

I don't think it can be overemphasized to people who didn't watch the show, the show was NOT about religion, Quiverfull or Gothardism. The producers actively avoided those subjects.

 

I would argue that it was. But that it was particularly insidious because it never mentioned any of those things by name. (or hardly ever -- Big Sandy and ATI came up a few times by name, especially in the early years, I think). Nevertheless, they repeatedly --nay, constantly -- spoke of, showed off, described, recommended, harped on and bragged about their cult beliefs and the brilliant results for them and for the world that those cult beliefs produced (hell, they still do it). And they hardly ever showed or discussed anything that was not an integral part of their ideologies. What did Jim Bob say to everyone he met in a foreign country? I have 19 kids! And it's because I'm a Christian. Bingo. That's Quiverfull. He just never named it.

 

Meanwhile, in addition to glossing over the names of their connections and ideologies, they also glossed over anything that they or the network thought might look bad -- such as the facts that education is despised and neglected in their home and cult, that the supposedly cherished women are actually treated as doormats and clown cars; that the supposedly debt-free life their way of thinking recommends and brags about has in fact always been subsidized by neighbors' "love offerings" and tv cash; that while they write supposedly glowing birthday messages about how each of their children is speshul cuz he/she wubs Jeezus and has a servants' heart, they in fact know and care nothing about their children individually and, in fact, that in every way possible they discourage those kids from developing as individuals.

 

So, yeah, they claim that this is not about any of their beliefs. But, in truth, they are wildly committed to their ideologies and the show never ever stopped preaching the goodness of those ideologies and completely hiding their many negative sides. And it added to the deception by never using names such as Gothard, because the names might tip people off to the fact that maybe there are downsides after all. And guess what? Those are the tactics often used to entice people into admiring and following horrible ideologies of all kinds.

 

So, yep, I totally 10,000 percent disagree with the proposition that the show was not about their cult beliefs!

  • Love 17
kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

I would argue that it was. But that it was particularly insidious because it never mentioned any of those things by name. (or hardly ever -- Big Sandy and ATI came up a few times by name, especially in the early years, I think). Nevertheless, they repeatedly --nay, constantly -- spoke of, showed off, described, recommended, harped on and bragged about their cult beliefs and the brilliant results for them and for the world that those cult beliefs produced (hell, they still do it). And they hardly ever showed or discussed anything that was not an integral part of their ideologies. What did Jim Bob say to everyone he met in a foreign country? I have 19 kids! And it's because I'm a Christian. Bingo. That's Quiverfull. He just never named it.

Meanwhile, in addition to glossing over the names of their connections and ideologies, they also glossed over anything that they or the network thought might look bad -- such as the facts that education is despised and neglected in their home and cult, that the supposedly cherished women are actually treated as doormats and clown cars; that the supposedly debt-free life their way of thinking recommends and brags about has in fact always been subsidized by neighbors' "love offerings" and tv cash; that while they write supposedly glowing birthday messages about how each of their children is speshul cuz he/she wubs Jeezus and has a servants' heart, they in fact know and care nothing about their children individually and, in fact, that in every way possible they discourage those kids from developing as individuals.

So, yeah, they claim that this is not about any of their beliefs. But, in truth, they are wildly committed to their ideologies and the show never ever stopped preaching the goodness of those ideologies and completely hiding their many negative sides. And it added to the deception by never using names such as Gothard, because the names might tip people off to the fact that maybe there are downsides after all. And guess what? Those are the tactics often used to entice people into admiring and following horrible ideologies of all kinds.

So, yep, I totally 10,000 percent disagree with the proposition that the show was not about their cult beliefs!

Less than 1 percent of Christians are Quiverfull, so when they say Christian, very few viewers are interpreting that as code for Quiverfull. When the producers glossed over the details of their religion, the Quiverfull nature of their lifestyle was glossed over. Any promotion based on something not mentioned wasn't possible. They were presented as generic fundy Christians with 19 kids.

People who have previous experience with fundy/Quiverfull beliefs could probably pick up on what their lifestyle really was, but the general viewing public? No way.

Edited by Kokapetl
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

Less than 1 percent of Christians are Quiverfull, so when they say Christian, very few viewers are interpreting that as code for Quiverfull. When the producers glossed over the details of their religion, the Quiverfull nature of their lifestyle was glossed over. Any promotion based on something not mentioned wasn't possible. They were presented as generic fundy Christians with 19 kids.

People who have previous experience with fundy/Quiverfull beliefs could probably pick up o. What the lifestyle was, but the general viewing public? No way.

 

Quiverfull is not an official group, with a leader or a membership or even a set of principles, beyond certain basics.  Fundie Christians with 19 natural children are Quiverfull because being a fundie Christian who believes that the right thing to do is to have 19 biological children is the definition of Quiverfull. (ETA: Duggars' quiverfullness, in particular, stems from Gothard/ATI)

 

What I'm saying viewers pick up from the show is not some name --which is in fact essentially meaningless -- but the anything-but-meaningless idea that being a fundie Christian who is "open to as many children as God wants to give us" and who carefully studies your fertility chart to ensure that God wants to give you lots is a great, rewarding, wonderful thing to be and in fact what God recommends for Christians. .... It's the belief and the principle that they're selling, not the name of it. And in selling that belief and principle, they are, indeed, selling their cultish religious beliefs.

 

This is an agree to disagree situation. We aren't going to convince each other, so we might as well not worry about it!

Edited by Churchhoney
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kokapetl

kokapetl

Isn't Amy an only child?

Then she probably spent alot of time with them, so she has kids to play with, and just continued to stick around as they all grew up.

There's picture of her and her three cousins dressed up for Halloween. Lying liar Amy is dressed up as a clown.

Yeah, that'd be really interesting to know. There are certainly plenty of people from both camps discussing them online!

All reality tv shows rely on a freak factor to some extent. I found them freaky but likeable.
  • Love 2
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

All reality tv shows rely on a freak factor to some extent. I found them freaky but likeable.

Oh, absolutely.

 

I, on the other hand, felt as soon as I knew about them that I knew them inside out because so many of their little ways instantly reminded me of family members -- so I've loathed JB and M for over a decade, found all the kids pitiable, and haven't really considered them particularly freaky -- and definitely not entertaining -- because, while the family size and so on are outlandish, JB"s and M's neurotic behavior and manipulations seemed intimately familiar to me. I suppose we represent two major categories of the hatewatchers (or, at least, the hate-discussers and obsessive readers-about, in my case).

Edited by Churchhoney
  • Love 1
GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I'm neither a hater or a humper. There are many, many things that bother me about the Duggars, but I don't hate them. I disagree with them on almost all things though. I watched out of curiosity, and often was mouth gapingly surprised at many of their thought processes and "convictions". Until the robocall & Josh joining FRC, the thing that bothered me most was their oppression of their girls. I really felt kind of like, no harm no foul, in the beginning because they're entitled to raise their family as "they see fit".

 

I work with people of all walks of life and everyone is entitled to their own 'picket fence', and I find it hard to hate people for living oddly or differently. When they used their quasi-celebrity to spout hate, my opinion changed somewhat, but I don't have enough hate in me to hate all the haters out there, the Duggars included.

 

And in the end, part of me was waiting for them to evolve, somewhat like how the Bates family is slowly evolving.

  • Love 2
Micks Picks

Micks Picks

(edited)

When I first saw them I thought they seemed like a nice family.  They could take them places, I think a road trip to Disneyland in California, and they seemed quite nice.  Then the dress started to change and I thought that was nice.  Then I got the creepiness factor.  Major.  MEchele whispering something to the kid and he looked like he was going to be hit.  Then the weddings and babies and women gazing adoringly at the men.  Hell to the no.  But at the time I didn't start out knowing anything about fun dies.  Funny how auto-correct changes that word.  I did know something about FLDS, but not about the christians.  I did remember Barry Goldwater warning about the christian conservatives being a danger coming to the republican party, and by golly he was right.  I don't think I knew what he said until years after he said it, but it was evident when I read it that he was right.    So there it is, now I snark on the family, but not so much on Amy.  She's ok.  And even if as a little kid she dressed as a clown she sure didn't like them when she was in her early 20s.  And it was mean of the Duggers to send a clown to her birthday party.  Clown, disney characters freak me out too for some reason.  Don't know why but I want to get away from them.  Feel like a total fool talking to the mute mickey mouse.

Edited by Micks Picks
  • Love 1
cmr2014

cmr2014

Oh, absolutely.

 

I, on the other hand, felt as soon as I knew about them that I knew them inside out because so many of their little ways instantly reminded me of family members -- so I've loathed JB and M for over a decade, found all the kids pitiable, and haven't really considered them particularly freaky -- and definitely not entertaining -- because, while the family size and so on are outlandish, JB"s and M's neurotic behavior and manipulations seemed intimately familiar to me. I suppose we represent two major categories of the hatewatchers (or, at least, the hate-discussers and obsessive readers-about, in my case).

 

I think that a lor of us identify with them in different ways -- I, myself, come from a large family and did my time as a sister-mom. I recognize the self-absorbed mother who pawns her responsibilites off on her children.

 

As far as the religious nature of the show goes, I have ain intense personal dislike for born-again Christians. I was evengelized at, harrassed, and threatened by evangelicals all through my school years (imagine going to school with hundreds of Bens who all felt it was their personal mission to "save" you -- day after day, year after year). They were genuinely awful people. I could go on and on, but I will leave it at thar. When I hear anyone start a statement with "well, I am a Christian" as if it implies anything good, I feel visceral disgust.

 

I am not proud of my bigotry, and when I first watched the show, I kind of liked the Duggars and I thought it was good for me to see Christians who, while clearly nuts, were trying to live Christian lives as they defined it rather than trying to force everyone else into their lifestyle. While they were clearly zealots, they made a point of saying things like "this is what we believe," or "this is how we do things," rather than the shrieking "this is how everyone has to do things!" I respected that.

 

As time passed, though, I think that they have become more comfortable with expressing their views. Aside from the "courting"  and "saving the first kiss for the altar" bs, they really didn't talk much about their specific beleifs on the show. Their outside presence has become more high profile, though, and their political activism has colored how people view the show. And with greater exposure, things like the neglect of the children, the reliance on the older girls for childcare, the lack of education, the controlling nature of the parents, all have come into focus. I have also done some reading about Gothardism and that has colored my view of the show as well.

 

As far as Amy goes, I think that her relationship with the Duggars is the most complex thing about her -- I think that she is an extremely ordinary young woman. I'm sure that she enjoyed spending time with them -- as an only child -- when she was younger. I'm sure that she has been envious of the television show at times. I think it's pretty obvious that she craves attention as much as JB does, and it wouldn't be unreasonable for her to envy them a bit. Most of the Duggar children are pretty personality-free, and I think more than a few don't enjoy being on camera, so I'm sure that it galls her a bit that something she craves so much is something that her cousins have -- and many of them don't really like. The family has also taken trips around the world that I'm sure many of us envy, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that she envies them, too. On the other hand, I'm sure that every time she's kissed a boy, or gone swimming, or gone to the movies, or spent an evening with her friends -- or a thousand other things -- she thanks God that she's not one of them.

 

I hope that her marriage will be happy and that this guy provides her with some of the attendtion and validataion that she so clearly craves. And, if they've had sex before the wedding, good for them.

  • Love 22
Bean421

Bean421

I got sidetracked.  The actual reason I came to this thread is to ask if anybody knows anything about Amy's 3rd shower.  Any pic?  Did the Duggers show up?  Anything?

Nothing yet. I wouldn't be suprised if there weren't any Duggars. I'm not sure which of her cousins she's actually close to now. I try not to read into who follows who on social media but I was suprised that they all don't follow her.

  • Love 2
Emme

Emme

Ok, wow. Way too many fonts in that thing, and whoever had the idea that the cartoony script font was a good choice with the weedy swash font was deeply mistaken.

Interesting that the media information was in clear, legible sans serif faces, like that's the information she wanted to be sure everyone read and understood.

I bet graphic artist Smuggar "designed" the invites. I was cracking up when they showed him working on Jessa and Ben's invites. As if my five year old couldn't drop all that shit into a template and print.

Would have been funny if Joshie had two windows open - Paint (or whatever simpleton graphic design program he uses) on one screen, porn on the other. I could see him mistakenly dropping and dragging something like a reverse cowgirl positioned couple onto the front of the Amy's invite by mistake.

  • Love 8
truthtalk2014

truthtalk2014

I just wish I could take the group of us from last night - that crashed the RU Freakfest- and crash Amy's wedding.  Now that would be comical - especially the reception, which hopefully is a normal one with booze and dancing.  

 

I really do wonder if she is pregnant.  No one really cares if she is.  People get pregnant all the time out of wedlock.  It just seemed a bit quick  - but I'm just throwing stuff out there.  I guess only time will tell. 

 

I also wonder if the Duggars will even mention her wedding day on their Facebook and such.  Probably not.  

  • Love 2
Wellfleet

Wellfleet

I've been to a ton of weddings - hell, I've even had two myself -- but I've never heard of a Sunday wedding.  Is that an Arkansas thing?

 

I've been to a whole bunch of Jewish weddings held on Sunday afternoons, mostly Reformed Jews. And my parents talked for 45 years about their best friends' wedding on a Sunday afternoon at the bride's home. Off-topic but - I saw the photos and it was indeed a beautiful, very small home wedding. Absolutely stunning black-and-white photos. The kind of exquisite B&W photography that, if you saw the color versions of the same photos, you'd actually be disappointed.

  • Love 1
Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45

If your post is not PRIMARILY about the Duggars, it will be removed. Please stick to the topic or take it to Small Talk, thank you.

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