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Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

Chris Knight

By Chris Knight
in Counting On

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Absolom

Absolom

28 minutes ago, lascuba said:

And wasn't it Venessa who released a statement claiming she had nothing to do with Israel's birth and strongly implying  that Jill and her team fucked up? And now Jill's working with her again. I guess that shows she's not a hypocrite with the whole forgiveness thing but, god, these people are so fucking wierd.

I'm having a little trouble at this point remembering, but I think that was the licensed midwife that Jill had been seeing and who expected to be called to the birth.

Heathen

Heathen

2 hours ago, Nysha said:

My state has a whole town which is peopled by a religious cult that is based on faith healing and forbids doctors even in emergencies. Their children die from ear infections, infected bug bites, stepping on rusty nails, and the measles and they have enough clout to make sure our state laws protect their right to kill their own children by medical neglect. 

Idaho?

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lascuba

lascuba

(edited)
1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I'm having a little trouble at this point remembering, but I think that was the licensed midwife that Jill had been seeing and who expected to be called to the birth.

It might have been both of them, now that I think about it. Both Jill's alleged midwife and the midwives at Venessa's business. I only remember because that's when I learned that it was called "A Mommy's butterfly."

ETA: It looks like Venessa commented on Spurgeon's birth and threw shade at Jill at the same time: http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2015/11/statement-from-arkansas-midwife.html

Quote

I didn't want to respond in this forum but due to the overwhelming support and calls and emails. We were not Jessa Seewald's midwives. I am sad that Jessa suffered a postpartum hemorrhage. I am happy that Jessa and "Quincy" are home, safe and sound. Both Jessa and Jill made decisions that do not fairly reflect home birth nor the care of the midwives in this state. But what matters most is Healthy Baby, Healthy Mama!
 

Edited by lascuba
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madpsych78

madpsych78

2 hours ago, kaleidoscope said:

Story posted from Radar: "Jill revealed this week that she’s launched her own midwife service called Labor Sit."

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2018/04/jill-duggar-goes-back-to-work-as-a-midwife

Is there any truth to this?  Jill has started her own midwife service?

Well, there was no mention on here or on FJ about Labor Sit, so this one may actually be plausible. Because where else would Radar get that?

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Heathen

Heathen

Good grief, Derelict's face is jacked up. I tried doing that -- making the center of my mouth half an inch or more to the right of my nose -- and I couldn't without pain. Maybe that's why he's got the personality of an angry raccoon. 

Also, that photo is horribly framed. Why not sit closer together instead of cutting off half of Izzy? Oh yeah, because the Dullards are dullards. 

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DragonFaerie

DragonFaerie

47 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I agree. Her physical appearance has improved a lot recently. She looks clean, her hair is combed, and her smile looks genuine.

Perhaps leeching along with Derick and seeing how the other woman behave and handle themselves has given her a look into a non-Duggar world in relation to appearance and hygiene 

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Christina87

Christina87

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6 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Meanwhile.....

 

It's like...what does it matter to Derick that it's the weekend? Can't he go to the park any old day with his family? There is nobody in that family who is living on a traditional schedule! Nobody works, and izzy doesn't go to preschool! I love how they act like the weekend is some magical time off. 

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cmr2014

cmr2014

21 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I was under the impression that Derick was taking classes to become a minister/missionary through his church. Is it online or more of a mentoring-type program?

This is what he's doing:

http://www.crosschurchschool.com/about/

It's a one year program that doesn't provide any credentials, but brings in $$$ for Cross Church. I think that Derick wanted to be on the "Global Missions" track, but was redirected to "College Ministry" because he 1) failed to convert anyone in DA and 2) was having trouble mastering a second language. It seems like it was mostly just a BS way to save face about being booted from SOS and not wanting to GET A DAMN JOB.

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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)
On 21/04/2018 at 7:17 AM, Vaysh said:

Aren't there any kind of negligence laws in Arkansas? As in, if you cause someone physical harm and/or death by being a careless dumbass, you will be charged with a crime because you've endangered another person by your carelessness. In Sweden this includes things like leaving your stove on and causing a fire, not watching over your child at the beach/pool, careless behaviour in traffic and so on. I don't know if failure to call an ambulance during a stressful home birth would fall under this since home births are very rare around here and only done with low-risk pregnancies but I'm assuming it would, especially if the person in charge was a midwife or doula. Medical personnel, including doctors, who fail in their duty towards their patients can and do get charged with causing bodily harm/causing death, even if it wasn't intentional.

 

I think it’s basically up to the victims to sue, and substandard healthcare/education of children etc. gets excused because of “parental rights”.

Sweden ?? is not America??. 

Edited by Kokapetl
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Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

On 4/20/2018 at 12:55 PM, BitterApple said:

For those of you unfamiliar with the botched birth that resulted in Venessa losing her license, here's the article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquisitr.com/2971135/mother-whose-baby-nearly-died-says-a-duggar-attended-her-homebirth-discusses-why-jill-dillards-midwife-trainer-lost-her-license/amp/

I had no idea it happened at the Pool House and Jill was present, along with several other apprentices. I found it interesting that the mother said the apprentices all recommended transferring to a hospital and it was Venessa who refused. The child is now permanently disabled thanks to her incompetency.

This still continues to boil my skin...

On 4/20/2018 at 1:11 PM, bythelake said:

In the pictures,the toys laying around don't concern me as much as that filthy carpet. If they are in a rental, why they can rent a steam cleaner at low cost if they don't want to pay for professional cleaning. But, to put your small child on that dirty carpet when you know he's going to roll around and face plant into that mess is disgusting. She could at least put down a "Blanket" over the dirt. I'm sure she has lots of them.

Yup! If it's a rental, steam the carpets and get an oversized rug. We did that when we lived in base housing because if you had one spot on the carpet you had to pay to replace it all. It was only a few hundred dollars to cover two bedrooms (kids rooms). It's not that difficult.

On 4/21/2018 at 10:46 AM, GeeGolly said:

Delivering moms aren't the experts at home or in a medical facility and mistakes happen in both places. But I'm thinking most moms delivering at home would take action if there's a discussion about a distressed baby. I have 3 friends who delivered at home, 2 of them had solid plans of when to go to the hospital and when to call 911. The 3rd one had no plan at all and actually lived on an island. All 3 babies were born without complications.

I just think there's too much at stake to take any chances and most OBs/hospitals these days allow the moms autonomy up until circumstances arise that need intervention. Personally I don't get it, because to me childbirth isn't romantic or even pleasant. Holding your newborn in your arms is one of the most awesome feelings ever and that was my goal when having my babies.

Agreed. If mom was present enough to know that the apprentices were disagreeing with Venessa, she was present enough to ask for a phone to call 911. Not to mention, this should have been apart of the standard bloodwork. I can understand why you'd want to avoid an OB visit or excess ultrasounds, but bloodwork and a 20 week scan should NOT be optional! I knew a few people who homebirthed when we lived in Missouri, midwife did everything but referred to the local hospital when it came time to run the routine blood work and do the 20 week scan. 

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lascuba

lascuba

(edited)
1 hour ago, Loves2Dance said:

 

Agreed. If mom was present enough to know that the apprentices were disagreeing with Venessa, she was present enough to ask for a phone to call 911. Not to mention, this should have been apart of the standard bloodwork. I can understand why you'd want to avoid an OB visit or excess ultrasounds, but bloodwork and a 20 week scan should NOT be optional! I knew a few people who homebirthed when we lived in Missouri, midwife did everything but referred to the local hospital when it came time to run the routine blood work and do the 20 week scan. 

I agree in theory, but I honestly think that, in the US at least, if a woman is choosing homebirth she alrady has an innate mistrust of the medical system and is--I don't even know---hypnotized? by their midwife. Because for all their talk about educating themselves, etc, when it comes down to it they're going to see their midwife as a medical authority and trust them. I've read so many stories of women choosing midwifery specifically because of how long their prenatal appointments last, of how they grow to trust and bond with their midwives. That's weird to me because I'm anti-social as hell and value competence and efficiency over good bed-side manner, but I'm apparently a huge exception among patients. And I'm no psychologist, but I can imaging that giving birth and all the stress and emotion involved does a number on one's reasoning ability, especially when dealing with an emergency with a midwife who up until that point appeared to know what she was doing and an apprentice midwife who was a celebrity who I'm sure the mom admired.

Which is all to say that lay midwifery needs to be criminalized, full stop. Go to a real accredited school or get the fuck out.

Edited by lascuba
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Nysha

Nysha

14 hours ago, cmr2014 said:
15 hours ago, Nysha said:

I was under the impression that Derick was taking classes to become a minister/missionary through his church. Is it online or more of a mentoring-type program?

This is what he's doing:

http://www.crosschurchschool.com/about/

It's a one year program that doesn't provide any credentials, but brings in $$$ for Cross Church. I think that Derick wanted to be on the "Global Missions" track, but was redirected to "College Ministry" because he 1) failed to convert anyone in DA and 2) was having trouble mastering a second language. It seems like it was mostly just a BS way to save face about being booted from SOS and not wanting to GET A DAMN JOB.

Wow! I cannot fathom how the church justifies such a scam. They are charging people $12,000 a year to be interns at their church. I think free internship is a scam and this church charges for it. 

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lascuba

lascuba

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

Wow! I cannot fathom how the church justifies such a scam. They are charging people $12,000 a year to be interns at their church. I think free internship is a scam and this church charges for it. 

You're right, of course, but considering the subject matter and the goals of those interns I'm absolutely thrilled with this scam. Let's defraud fundies of their money as much as possible.

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

Wow! I cannot fathom how the church justifies such a scam. They are charging people $12,000 a year to be interns at their church. I think free internship is a scam and this church charges for it. 

I love how in the webpage, it's just $12,000.  I have never uttered those words together.  Maybe if I was talking about a car.

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Zahdii

Zahdii

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I agree in theory, but I honestly think that, in the US at least, if a woman is choosing homebirth she alrady has an innate mistrust of the medical system and is--I don't even know---hypnotized? by their midwife. 

I strongly disagree.  Of the women I know who chose or strongly considered a home birth, it wasn't because she distrusted the medical system.  Most wanted to give birth in a familiar environment where they had control over the birth process.  A couple admitted that cost was an issue. 

I'm sure that there are fringe elements in society who distrust the medical establishment and seek out a midwife who shares their beliefs, but I think that in most cases a woman chooses a home birth for other reasons.  If things are done correctly and there is no fear of transferring to a hospital if needed, the goal of healthy mother and baby is the same as for a hospital birth.

I say this as someone who never considered a home birth, and if I'd tried, I likely wouldn't have survived my first delivery.  But that doesn't mean that only a woman who has an innate mistrust of the medical system and is then hypnotized or controlled by their midwife is the only woman in the US that would have a home birth.

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Heathen

Heathen

3 hours ago, Loves2Dance said:

This still continues to boil my skin...

Yup! If it's a rental, steam the carpets and get an oversized rug. We did that when we lived in base housing because if you had one spot on the carpet you had to pay to replace it all. It was only a few hundred dollars to cover two bedrooms (kids rooms). It's not that difficult.

Agreed. If mom was present enough to know that the apprentices were disagreeing with Venessa, she was present enough to ask for a phone to call 911. Not to mention, this should have been apart of the standard bloodwork. I can understand why you'd want to avoid an OB visit or excess ultrasounds, but bloodwork and a 20 week scan should NOT be optional! I knew a few people who homebirthed when we lived in Missouri, midwife did everything but referred to the local hospital when it came time to run the routine blood work and do the 20 week scan. 

Heck, you can BUY a good-quality carpet shampooer for $200ish. 

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awaken

awaken

4 hours ago, lascuba said:

I agree in theory, but I honestly think that, in the US at least, if a woman is choosing homebirth she alrady has an innate mistrust of the medical system and is--I don't even know---hypnotized? by their midwife. Because for all their talk about educating themselves, 

I’m sorry, but wha???  I, and many women in the US choose homebirth, and we’re certainly not hypnotized by midwives into doing it!  Sounds like some leftover medieval midwives=Witches type thinking!   Many women choose to have a homebirth before they even decide on which midwife to use or even meet them!   How would that hypnotizing work from afar?  And what about people who do whatever the doctor says, without questioning or understanding it? Hypnotized or no?  

Let’s not extrapolate what Jill and her ilk do, to qualified, lisenced, experienced practitioners who provide evidence based care within the law, and are integrated into the healthcare system!  Apples and oranges!  

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lascuba

lascuba

(edited)
1 hour ago, awaken said:

I’m sorry, but wha???  I, and many women in the US choose homebirth, and we’re certainly not hypnotized by midwives into doing it!  Sounds like some leftover medieval midwives=Witches type thinking!   Many women choose to have a homebirth before they even decide on which midwife to use or even meet them!   How would that hypnotizing work from afar?  And what about people who do whatever the doctor says, without questioning or understanding it? Hypnotized or no?  

Let’s not extrapolate what Jill and her ilk do, to qualified, lisenced, experienced practitioners who provide evidence based care within the law, and are integrated into the healthcare system!  Apples and oranges!  

The use of hypnotized was hyperbolic, meant to explain how someone who's seemingly aware of what's going on would fail to call an ambulance for her baby when her LEGALLY LICENSED MIDWIFE refused to do so. I've read so many stories like that, where women trust their midwives to the point of catastrophe, and I don't like blaming the mom for that (well, beyond choosing homebirth to begin with, but that's the states' fault for regulating midwifery so poorly). But I maintain that in the US, a country where the vast majority of states allow people with subpar educations and minimal training to attend homebirths, and where those homebirths are not at all integrated into the healthcare system (seriously, where in the US is it integrated?)  a large majority of women who chose it do so out of mistrust of the medical system. And to get back on-topic, if JILL can pass the exam that homebirth midwives have to pass, that tells me everything I need to know. 

Edited by lascuba
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Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

If my delivery team, hospital birth OR homebirth with 'midwives, etc'. brought their children with them; I'd be livid. Why did Jill bring Sammy with her to help deliver a baby recently? Shouldn't ALL OF THEIR ATTENTION be on the laboring mother? NO distractions. What idiots.

Agreed! Beyond the fact that Sam is a pool of whatever germs his brother has, the birthing mother (who is PAYING FOR THIS) should be getting everyone's full attention. 

2 minutes ago, lascuba said:

The use of hypnotized was hyperbolic, meant to explain how someone who's seemingly aware of what's going on would fail to call an ambulance for her baby when her LEGALLY LICENSED MIDWIFE refused to do so. I've read so many stories like that, where women trust their midwives to the point of catastrophe, and I don't like blaming the mom for that (well, beyond choosing homebirth to begin with, but that's the states' fault for regulating midwifery so poorly). But I maintain that in the US, a country where the vast majority of states allow people with subpar educations and minimal training to attend homebirths, and where those homebirths are not at all integrated into the healthcare system (seriously, where in the US is it integrated?)  a large majority of women who chose it do so out of mistrust of the medical system. And to get back on-topic, if JILL can pass the exam that homebirth midwives have to pass, that tells me everything I need to know. 

What Jill passed was several steps down from what you'd expect a midwife to have. 

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tabloidlover

tabloidlover

6 hours ago, lascuba said:

Which is all to say that lay midwifery needs to be criminalized, full stop. Go to a real accredited school or get the fuck out.

THIS!!!   Post of the week!   Anything that Jill was able to accomplish is clearly not nearly enough to be in the room as a wild animal gives birth, let alone a human.

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floridamom

floridamom

I also think the laboring mother is the 'midwife's' client. If she decides things are a bit too difficult and has ANY hesitations to continue outside of a hospital, I would think it's the attending person's responsibility to respect the wishes of the mother and do as she asks.....transport her to a hospital if she so desires. It's not the place of these so called midwives to insist on their own wishes. It's not their bodies or babies, now, is it?

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doodlebug

doodlebug

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4 hours ago, floridamom said:

I also think the laboring mother is the 'midwife's' client. If she decides things are a bit too difficult and has ANY hesitations to continue outside of a hospital, I would think it's the attending person's responsibility to respect the wishes of the mother and do as she asks.....transport her to a hospital if she so desires. It's not the place of these so called midwives to insist on their own wishes. It's not their bodies or babies, now, is it?

This is something that can be very frustrating with this crowd.  Many of the women I've met who chose home birth say they did so because they feel that hospital childbirth is too impersonal, the rate of intervention is too high, that they want to have 'control' over their birth (as if anyone really could control childbirth).  Then, they choose a minimally trained individual to attend to them and follow her over the cliff like lemmings in the event of an emergency.  Sometimes, you have to accept that not everything can be controlled and that you may not be in the best position to make decisions in a crisis.  That being the case, why would anyone cede control of their birth to a lay midwife whose training is so substandard, whose response to any crisis seems to be 'wait and see and hope'?  In virtually every tragedy I've encountered with this crowd, there was a period of hours and hours (or even days and days) of inaction when there were significant warning signs that things were not going smoothly.  And, all of it due to a 'midwife' who really didn't see the signs or didn't know what to do so she did nothing.

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Natalie68

Natalie68

On 4/21/2018 at 1:03 AM, Temperance said:

Not to take away from the discussion above, but I really disliked the photo of Israel on the scale. He's a young child who seem to be healthy in most respects. He eats what his parents feed him.  And yet, there he is posed on scale, pretending to look upset about his weight. It isn't his fault and he's just a very young kid. It bothers me that he's 3 years old and they're already teaching him that your weight can be a source of shame, judgment, stress or worry. 

I bet if he was a girl, people would be upset.  Although from millenials on down, boys/guys/men are more and more self-conscious about their bodies. 

Maybe they do not understand eating disorders affect boys as well.  Sad

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lascuba

lascuba

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

This is something that can be very frustrating with this crowd.  Many of the women I've met who chose home birth say they did so because they feel that hospital childbirth is too impersonal, the rate of intervention is too high, that they want to have 'control' over their birth (as if anyone really could control childbirth).  Then, they choose a minimally trained individual to attend to them and follow her over the cliff like lemmings in the event of an emergency.  Sometimes, you have to accept that not everything can be controlled and that you may not be in the best position to make decisions in a crisis.  That being the case, why would anyone cede control of their birth to a lay midwife whose training is so substandard, whose response to any crisis seems to be 'wait and see and hope'?  In virtually every tragedy I've encountered with this crowd, there was a period of hours and hours (or even days and days) of inaction when there were significant warning signs that things were not going smoothly.  And, all of it due to a 'midwife' who really didn't see the signs or didn't know what to do so she did nothing.

Years ago on a message board I belonged to, this woman attempted her second homebirth, this time with twins. Her midwife was a CNM who ended up tranferring her during labor, and the woman complained, saying she wished she'd chosen a CPM who new about herbs and stuff. So, yeah, the whole "control" thing is just weird to me and US homebirth comes across as a funky subculture I just can't understand. 

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Natalie68

Natalie68

On 4/22/2018 at 11:20 AM, Sew Sumi said:

Didn't their own blog state that she wasn't going to work as a midwife in favor of being a housewife?

If its true maybe they have decided Jill needs to work since Dickweed got their other means of support cut off.  But I don't know, here is a novel thought, both parents can work.  But man, it is concerning that Jill will be in charge or an assistant to any woman birthin' a baby.

On 4/22/2018 at 1:37 PM, Madtown said:

What? No hashtags? I'll add them to my post...335 months ago I started dating #mybestfriend who is now the#besthubbyever..
I hate them....

Awe, we musta met our headships around the same time!  I purpose to be a good helpmeet but sometimes he can make his own gd sandwich!

  • Love 7
Natalie68

Natalie68

On 4/22/2018 at 3:44 PM, cmr2014 said:

I agree. Her physical appearance has improved a lot recently. She looks clean, her hair is combed, and her smile looks genuine.

Maybe it was her day to bathe

On 4/22/2018 at 8:29 PM, cmr2014 said:

This is what he's doing:

http://www.crosschurchschool.com/about/

It's a one year program that doesn't provide any credentials, but brings in $$$ for Cross Church. I think that Derick wanted to be on the "Global Missions" track, but was redirected to "College Ministry" because he 1) failed to convert anyone in DA and 2) was having trouble mastering a second language. It seems like it was mostly just a BS way to save face about being booted from SOS and not wanting to GET A DAMN JOB.

College is the last time he was happy?  Last time he had no real responsibility?  He can hang with others who have been sent to alert to straighten that shit out <wink> before being married?  Get student discounts at stores and travel?  Not have to wear big boy long pants?

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