Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Marigold]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Does anyone remember when, before the wedding, Cathy said she couldn't want to spend time with Jill as a daughter. I'm sure she got skilled in the Duggar golden rule: whoever's a Duggar dominates their relationship. Period.

Yes!

Cathy was excited to have a daughter in law.  Unfortunately, Jill did not work out as planned.  Jill is clingy, needy and awkward. Not to mention all the baggage she carries around.

 Cathy has two sons. She was looking forward to a new family member, maybe the daughter she never had.  Jill has an oversupply of females in her life and totally doesn't need Cathy at all.  Cathy is just some extra person she has to be nice to. 

 

Re: Parenting

I just don't get the part where Jill is so attached to her J buddies but seems to have trouble finding that joyful affection for her own son. Jessa is the complete opposite. I feel like Jill has regressed as a person since marrying Derick...which is really hard to do since there is not much to work with to begin with  Or maybe it is not Derick personally but the two of them together is a bad combination    ;(  

[RazzleberryPie]

15 hours ago, zoomama said:

after reading this page, i sure hope everyone is WAY wrong on their interpretations of jill and derrick's relationships with their family. their life sounds so hopeless, when reading it. 

I don't think they're miserable or doomed. I don't think they're a ticking bomb waiting to explode, and I don't think they'll ever come to a point where they divorce. I do think the fairy tale or honeymoon phase is over, and they're diving deeper back into Gothardism or some equivalent to try to recreate that fantasy image of marriage and ministry. Ain't going to happen.

15 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I like my MIL well enough, but we don't do lunches or hang out together. Pretty much all our interaction happens through my husband. She's a nice lady, but we just have nothing in common. Jill barely has a relationship with her own mother, so I can understand why she's awkward around Cathy. None of the Duggar kids are well socialized and they don't seem to do well with people who aren't from their "bubble."

The difference to me is Anna, Jessa and Jinger may not be besties with their MILs, but they seem comfortable and like they're at least trying to enjoy their company. Jill seems like she's always thinking 'oh, great. Cathys here. Didn't we just make her some banana bread? Why is she still here? Can we leave now?' While Cathy is dying to squeeze her grandson and her son, and have a real conversation, but trying hard not to get upset that Jill always wants to seem to avoid her or compatmentalize her. 

[sigmaforce86]

13 hours ago, Marigold said:

Re: Parenting

I just don't get the part where Jill is so attached to her J buddies but seems to have trouble finding that joyful affection for her own son. Jessa is the complete opposite. I feel like Jill has regressed as a person since marrying Derick...which is really hard to do since there is not much to work with to begin with  Or maybe it is not Derick personally but the two of them together is a bad combination    ;(  

I think the difference is Jessa can actually BE an adult - a bossy one but still an adult.  Jill only "acts" like an adult - when she had her J buddies she was basically an unpaid babysitter and she still had Mommy and Daddy as backup plus the other older siblings.  Now she's the mommy but she still seems to be playing at it, like she's still the babysitter, still the kid who's not fully in charge. I feel like she's pretending to be like MeChelle but in her head and by a lot of her actions she's still the 15 year old babysitter.

[Nysha]

I don't think either Jill or Derrick look happy, but I don't think any of the Duggar kids or the Gothard-raised spouses will initiate a divorce. That would be a ticket straight to hell, according to their doctrine. I think they'll just plug away at the sheer drudgery of their life, wondering why it never gets better, but never maturing to the point of realizing that their beliefs are the problem. 

[GeeGolly]

20 hours ago, lascuba said:

Are there and specific incidences where it looked like Jill doesn't like Cathy? I'm genuinely asking...I find them both so odious that I haven't paid attention to their dynamic. 

I think 90% of the time we're watching a scripted show with people who can't act for shit, and in the 10% that's closer to the real end of the spectrum, we get what the family and producers think is sweet, charming quirkiness.

Two things that stand out to me with Jill is first - they didn't postpone the wedding when it was very touch and go for Cathy and Jill coldly remarked that "Miss Cathy may die" during one of the talking heads leading up to the marriage. And secondly, when Cathy was discussing getting some follow-up treatment out of state and commenting that visitors would be welcome, Jill gave Derick a look that revealed they weren't planning on visiting, and Cathy changed up the request to phone calls and Skype, or something like that.

I think Jill's behavior more reflects selfishness, immaturity and lack of empathy rather than actually disliking Cathy though.

There's a saying. that at times holds some truth, that might be part of what's going on - A daughter is a daughter for the rest of her life. A son is a son until he takes a wife.

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Two things that stand out to me with Jill is first - they didn't postpone the wedding when it was very touch and go for Cathy and Jill coldly remarked that "Miss Cathy may die" during one of the talking heads leading up to the marriage. And secondly, when Cathy was discussing getting some follow-up treatment out of state and commenting that visitors would be welcome, Jill gave Derick a look that revealed they weren't planning on visiting, and Cathy changed up the request to phone calls and Skype, or something like that.

I think Jill's behavior more reflects selfishness, immaturity and lack of empathy rather than actually disliking Cathy though.

There's a saying. that at times holds some truth, that might be part of what's going on - A daughter is a daughter for the rest of her life. A son is a son until he takes a wife.

Absolutely. She dislikes that she has to consider another person, not that person specifically.

Wasn't there something about Jill dropping off a cheesecake for Cathy's birthday, or mothers' day or something, right when she was recovering from cancer, then actually bailing out for the actual birthday or whatever, so she could do something grifty?

[FakeJoshDuggar]

I think it has more to do with with jealousy on Jill's part. She probably isn't equipped to handle Derick loving another woman even if it is his mom. /shrug

[ginger90]

Empathy is not a Duggar thing. With Cathy sick, Jill appeared aloof,  to me. "She might not make it" stone faced as hell. Or when they were outside Derick's old dorm room and Cathy spoke about coming there to tell Derick his father had passed. Neither one of them showed any emotion, they didn't even reach a hand out to touch her, nothing.

[JoanArc]

 I think it was cookies, not cheesecake that Jill dropped off. I remember being kind of aloof and giggly about it.  She treated the whole  situation like cathy stubbed her toe and  instead of having life-threatening cancer.

 

kind of hard to have a decent marriage or raise a child when you lac empathy.

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

grifty

World's Greatest Adjective

[bigskygirl]

I wonder if Derick sees what is happening to Josh, and he is scared it could happen with him. Obviously Josh is not happy at all because Anna has baby fever, he is not happy with toeing the Duggar line, lost his job in Washington D.C., and another baby he probably does not want. I am not saying Derick is going to cheat on Jill, but I think he definitely has the deer in the headlight look when it comes to Jill and having kids right and left. Derick is drowning in the Duggar koolaid with no lifeguard in sight to save him.

[Marigold]

Jill completely lacks empathy. You guys are so right. 

Empathy is a mature thought process and emotion. BINGO!  Jill is lacking in all areas that require mature thinking.

Jill had no clue what to do with a dying mother in law so she followed Rules of Etiquette and brought cookies with some giggles.   She had no clue what to do when Cathy cried so she stood quietly.  She couldn't handle Cathy in a wheelchair at the wedding so they took crappy pictures and smiled. 

Most of the Duggar kidults are lacking empathy.  They are socially awkward and have been so sheltered.  No emotional maturity at all. 

Derick is just plain crazy and Jill is...what we all listed above.  VERY poor choice for missionaries.   Even IF, they are just doing spiritual work and no humanitarian work, a missionary has to be able to really sit and listen to people...interact with them on a spiritual level.  Jill and Derick????????????  uh, not quite. 

Derick's first career of accounting is better for him. 

[cmr2014]

8 hours ago, Marigold said:

Derick's first career of accounting is better for him. 

I think that becoming a missionary was Derick's adolescent fantasy -- like being a rock star, or a big league ball player might have been for other young men. I would bet that it was Cathy who pushed accounting "in case missionary work didn't work out."

Derick may have had good intentions, but I don't think it ever occurred to him that he was completely ill-suited for the work (even without Barnacle Jill). He's not a natural leader, or a good public speaker, and even if he were, he doesn't have much to say. He doesn't appear to have much talent for, or interest in, the  almost endless fundraising that would be required of a missionary.

[Mollie]

8 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that becoming a missionary was Derick's adolescent fantasy -- like being a rock star, or a big league ball player might have been for other young men. I would bet that it was Cathy who pushed accounting "in case missionary work didn't work out."

Derick may have had good intentions, but I don't think it ever occurred to him that he was completely ill-suited for the work (even without Barnacle Jill). He's not a natural leader, or a good public speaker, and even if he were, he doesn't have much to say. He doesn't appear to have much talent for, or interest in, the  almost endless fundraising that would be required of a missionary.

Really?  I think Derick loves the fundraising most of all.  All he has to do is write a blog post to the Duggar fan base and tell them to click the DONATE button.  Easiest money he's ever made, plus he can do whatever he wants to with the money.  He has no board of directors to answer to and he is familiar enough with accounting to know that his non-profit will probably never get audited by the IRS.  Last year he spent six months in Arkansas doing nothing but growing long hair, swimming in the pool, and spending the money that came in from the DONATE button.  Central America got along just fine without him and his so-called missionary work.  

[cmr2014]

20 minutes ago, Mollie said:

Really?  I think Derick loves the fundraising most of all.  All he has to do is write a blog post to the Duggar fan base and tell them to click the DONATE button.  Easiest money he's ever made, plus he can do whatever he wants to with the money.  He has no board of directors to answer to and he is familiar enough with accounting to know that his non-profit will probably never get audited by the IRS.  Last year he spent six months in Arkansas doing nothing but growing long hair, swimming in the pool, and spending the money that came in from the DONATE button.  Central America got along just fine without him and his so-called missionary work.  

Yes, you're right. I guess what I meant was the fundraising that a real missionary might do: traveling from church to church putting on presentations about the actual work that was being done and how people's money was being spent; putting on endless fund-raising events; ingratiating himself with deep-pocketed evangelicals in the hope of sponsorship, etc.

[Sew Sumi]

Good lord, even John Shrader (Anna's BIL) has done the church plea, and he's the worst.missionary.ever. 

[cereality]

Any update on Jilly Muffin and Derick? Are they back from central America? I've totally lost touch since the show isn't on right now. But most importantly --did Derick CUT HIS HAIR?? The last pics on both of their instagrams are from 6 weeks ago -- and Derick looks somewhat human with a shave and short hair? Are they old pics or something?

[cereality]

23 hours ago, FakeJoshDuggar said:

I think it has more to do with with jealousy on Jill's part. She probably isn't equipped to handle Derick loving another woman even if it is his mom. /shrug

Not sure about this. I have definitely known women like this -- and Jill for all her negatives does not strike me that way. If nothing else she grew up in a huge fundie family with live in grandparents for a time and knows tons of other fundie families. I think she realizes that when a guy has 10 sisters, he's still "responsible" for them in making sure they get married even after he has already married, flown the coop and had his own kids. So I don't think she thinks a family just goes away once you get the man. Frankly the women I know that feel that way are from much smaller, not particularly close nuclear families - they are ok seeing their own families 1x a yr and talking to them 1x every few months -- so then they are driven nuts by the idea that their husband is talking to his mom bc they are supposed to be THE woman in his life.

Frankly I think Jill (and her siblings) act the way they do bc they don't have the mental development of 20-somethings. They are so stunted and isolated that their development is of a 13 or 15 yr old. A 13 yr old -- not knowing what to do -- would think it was ok to bring cookies and giggle in a dire situation or would awkwardly stand there and not even offer a hug or a pat on the arm when someone wistfully speaks about a painful memory. They wouldn't necessarily do this bc they were rude -- they'd do it bc they have NO IDEA how to react bc they have no life experience so they awkwardly just stand there and hope the story goes fast bc they don't know what to say.

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that becoming a missionary was Derick's adolescent fantasy -- like being a rock star, or a big league ball player might have been for other young men. I would bet that it was Cathy who pushed accounting "in case missionary work didn't work out."

Derick may have had good intentions, but I don't think it ever occurred to him that he was completely ill-suited for the work (even without Barnacle Jill). He's not a natural leader, or a good public speaker, and even if he were, he doesn't have much to say. He doesn't appear to have much talent for, or interest in, the  almost endless fundraising that would be required of a missionary.

And...Derick took a major short cut.  Marry a DUGGAR girl and the peak of the Duggar fame!  I swear $Duggar$ was his financial plan for being a missionary.  Don't forget, Derick "reached out to Jim Bob to be a prayer partner"  Who the fuck seeks out Jim Bob to be a prayer partner unless you have a plan to worm your way into Duggarville.   

Who knows?  Maybe that crash of the Duggars really depressed Derick and set him into a bad spiral downward.  All his elaborate $Duggar$ plans were foiled by Josh.  

[awaken]

2 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that becoming a missionary was Derick's adolescent fantasy -- like being a rock star, or a big league ball player might have been for other young men. I would bet that it was Cathy who pushed accounting "in case missionary work didn't work out."

Derick may have had good intentions, but I don't think it ever occurred to him that he was completely ill-suited for the work (even without Barnacle Jill). He's not a natural leader, or a good public speaker, and even if he were, he doesn't have much to say. He doesn't appear to have much talent for, or interest in, the  almost endless fundraising that would be required of a missionary.

Or even truly a heart for caring for people, understanding their lives, putting yourself in their place, and giving of oneself to meet their needs. I see none of that in them.   Just a relentless desire to preach their message, their way. 

[Sew Sumi]

32 minutes ago, Marigold said:

And...Derick took a major short cut.  Marry a DUGGAR girl and the peak of the Duggar fame!  I swear $Duggar$ was his financial plan for being a missionary.  Don't forget, Derick "reached out to Jim Bob to be a prayer partner"  Who the fuck seeks out Jim Bob to be a prayer partner unless you have a plan to worm your way into Duggarville.   

Who knows?  Maybe that crash of the Duggars really depressed Derick and set him into a bad spiral downward.  All his elaborate $Duggar$ plans were foiled by Josh.  

Don't forget though that in the last episode of 19 Kids, the previews for the next season had Boob all bothered because Derick had an "announcement." We don't know exactly when he told them they were leaving (I imagine as as it was, for the summer missioncation season), but it was before the airdate of that last episode on May 18/19. I'm sure he quit WalMart after Jilly Muffin was cleared from the hospital; the midwife could take care of her from there...and did a horrible job. But no doubt, Derick had this planned months in advance. It wasn't sprung on anyone in the Duggar circle.

Of course, we now know that they are no better than my cat at being "missionaries," but there is no way that they will ever declare failure. (See: Shrader, John). They will keep on as long as leghumper DONATIONS keep pouring (I hope at this point trickling) in.  

[Quilt Fairy]

50 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Of course, we now know that they are no better than my cat at being "missionaries,"

Better watch out or they will sled into your cat!

[Catfin]

Your cat would probably be an awesome missionary. Kitty could offer useful service in vermin control, fellowship through offering belly for rubs and lap sitting. Maybe lead crafts such as hairball horking. 

[louannems]

2 hours ago, cereality said:

Any update on Jilly Muffin and Derick? Are they back from central America? I've totally lost touch since the show isn't on right now. But most importantly --did Derick CUT HIS HAIR?? The last pics on both of their instagrams are from 6 weeks ago -- and Derick looks somewhat human with a shave and short hair? Are they old pics or something?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://starcasm.net/archives/365250&ved=0ahUKEwig1trL5MPTAhVKwmMKHVLyBckQFggqMAE&usg=AFQjCNE8Q-j7tIiM1sleWYwujhCw8TCesA&sig2=e5FPGCyiJuLYej3DdRrGbQ

[ariel]

I wish Jill or Derick would shave his scruffy beard.

[Sew Sumi]

They did when Jilly shorn his hair. His jawline does not support a clean shaven look yet. It may never. 

We should have a betting pool on when the Dullards will return to Arkansas. I'll start off with May 15. 

[latetotheparty]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

Or even truly a heart for caring for people, understanding their lives, putting yourself in their place, and giving of oneself to meet their needs. I see none of that in them.   Just a relentless desire to preach their message, their way. 

THIS.  I can't stop thinking about the young girl with the seizure disorder who died.  My youngest sister has been epileptic from infancy.  Her seizures were relatively well controlled until puberty.  They have only been moderately controlled since.  Seizure meds have a way of building up in the bloodstream unpredictably.  Even with the close medical supervision she receives her blood chemistry has moved along a spectrum of proper medication, over medication and under medication for the last 40 years or so. She has breakthrough seizures routinely.  So she wears a fucking helmet.

 I have never wanted to slap Jill so hard as when she smugly bragged how they brought that girl to Jesus before she died when a trip to Walmart could have produced a ten dollar, nothing special bike helmet and that child would still be alive making piñatas and enjoying her life.  That girl had so little in her life and now it's gone and I am mad because it didn't have to be this way. 

I understand how stunted Jill is and why.  But she claims an interest in the medical field and she knows how to use the internet.  A quick search for epilepsy safety could have yielded doable solutions that would have cost her nothing more than 20 minutes of time and a true desire to serve.

Sorry for ranting.  But I've been walking this road with my sister for 56 years.  This one hit way to close to home.

[Sew Sumi]

Jill and Dreck would really learn something from going onto PBS and watching "Learning From El Salvador." Yes, it's from a liberal slant, but it also demonstrates, step by step, how to grow the country, and the roadblocks that keep most of them destitute. SIngle women can't feed their kids. Don't get me started on the real politics. No no no....

THESE are the issues that these "missionaries" need to be addressing. Maybe then they can be converted. Maybe. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[JoanArc]

5 hours ago, latetotheparty said:

THIS.  I can't stop thinking about the young girl with the seizure disorder who died.

Or the asthma attack where she used her 'medical tools' (I forget the exact phrase) and then looked on blithely. Even trauma nurses with 30 years of  experience and compassion fatigue show more empathy than Jill does for the souls she's trying to save.

 

 I'm just so over  then getting away with everything because they have a TV show.  It needs to end already so the real world can kick in, and put them in their place.

[latetotheparty]

10 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Or the asthma attack where she used her 'medical tools' (I forget the exact phrase) and then looked on blithely. Even trauma nurses with 30 years of  experience and compassion fatigue show more empathy than Jill does for the souls she's trying to save.

 

 I'm just so over  then getting away with everything because they have a TV show.  It needs to end already so the real world can kick in, and put them in their place.

 Yeah that one hit close to the bone too. 

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jill and Dreck would really learn something from going onto PBS and watching "Learning From El Salvador." Yes, it's from a liberal slant, but it also demonstrates, step by step, how to grow the country, and the roadblocks that keep most of them destitute. SIngle women can't feed their kids. Don't get me started on the real politics. No no no....

THESE are the issues that these "missionaries" need to be addressing. Maybe then they can be converted. Maybe. 

Honestly, though, this is against fundamentalist religious tenets, and that fact has been heavily stressed by conservative Protestants ever since the fundie evangelicals split off from the "mainline' Protestants back around the turn of the 20th century. 

Theologically, the mainline "liberal" Prots believe that wrong and sin can be and often are deeply intertwined with systems such as bad laws, wealthy interests, corporate misbehavior and so on. And they consider it their religious and human duty to address those things by improving systems and laws to help improve the lot of the weak and crack down on greedy ill-doing or just thoughtlessness that can come from those with power. 

Fundie evangelical theology rejects this entirely and asserts that every problem that we liberals would call "social" comes from individuals' failure to embrace Jesus and from the sins of individuals. That individual sins and lack of faith by poor people (or rich people) is what wrecks those people and wrecks society. They simply do not address systems at all. In fact, they consider the temptation to address it as a satanic temptation intended to divert Christians' attention from the It's-all-about-your-individual-choice thing. So, according to their theology -- what's preached at them by pastors and by evangelical "financial experts" like Ramsey and printed in the Wisdumb Booklets along with all other conservative evangelical literature (and there's a lot of it) -- the only thing that missionaries and ministers must address, and the only thing that matters at all is getting individuals to embrace Jesus and improve their individual behavior, such as by working harder and saving more money. 

It's popular to say that Jill and Derick and the rest of the Duggs are just stupid individuals who don't get the truth and to think that there may be lots of other fundie missionaries out there who focus on hospital building. But it's just not true. Jill and Derick and the Duggs in general are behaving in strict accord with the long-held theology of their group (the likely waning segment of conservative evangelicals who haven't slid toward liberal views): Do not ascribe social evils of any kind to systems of any kind. They flow entirely from lack of proper faith and from bad individual behavior by those who may claim that they suffer from social ills. This is the big division between their religious group and the rest of Christianity. I know Jill and Derick are probably too stupid to realize that this is what they're doing or to have thought it through. But it's the theology they've imbibed from this whole culture. And it brands that kind of PBS show as a satanic distraction from the real issues. Seriously. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Churchhoney

[ginger90]

9 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Or the asthma attack where she used her 'medical tools' (I forget the exact phrase) and then looked on blithely. Even trauma nurses with 30 years of  experience and compassion fatigue show more empathy than Jill does for the souls she's trying to save.

 

 I'm just so over  then getting away with everything because they have a TV show.  It needs to end already so the real world can kick in, and put them in their place.

She used her "things"!

Derick was driving people home after church one evening when one of the older ladies started wheezing and coughing loudly and people around her were shouting for Derick to pull over. He was able to pull off the road and they got her out of the truck, but because we live in a rural area, they decided it was best to have the local medical person come check her out first, instead of taking her to the hospital, which is over an hour away. While he was on his way, I was able to use some of my things to check her vitals. Our friend (the local medical director) ended up giving her an inhaler and taking her home. This situation was a little scary, but thankfully she ended up being fine. The health director said it was likely due to all the dust and dirt on the road right now from it being the dry season. We really never know from one day to the next what may occur. Hopefully, sharing these stories gives you a glimpse into our ministry and lives here serving Christ.

[SMama]

I still don't get what they are doing there. Was the asthma attack an epiphany for the white saviors? And wow Jilly Muffin how terrible that people in Danger America never know what may occur. I'm in the good old US of A, and thus have the privilege to know months in advance when my next asthma attack will happen, or when my husband is going to sprain his foot while in Canada. Then there was the time when I was able to anticipate diverticulitis, with a scared two year old by my side. Jilly, you are so special I'm starting a fundraiser to get you your very own bus.

[Annb67]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

She used her "things"!

Derick was driving people home after church one evening when one of the older ladies started wheezing and coughing loudly and people around her were shouting for Derick to pull over. He was able to pull off the road and they got her out of the truck, but because we live in a rural area, they decided it was best to have the local medical person come check her out first, instead of taking her to the hospital, which is over an hour away. While he was on his way, I was able to use some of my things to check her vitals. Our friend (the local medical director) ended up giving her an inhaler and taking her home. This situation was a little scary, but thankfully she ended up being fine. The health director said it was likely due to all the dust and dirt on the road right now from it being the dry season. We really never know from one day to the next what may occur. Hopefully, sharing these stories gives you a glimpse into our ministry and lives here serving Christ.

Oh it gives me a glimpse alright. ?

[cereality]

They're idiots no doubt but thank goodness Derick is now an idiot without a gross man bun. And here's a question - why on earth does Jilly Muffin's bathroom have a picture of her parents getting cozy on the couch in their younger days? They really want to see their parents/inlaws faces while doing bathroom things??They really want a frame picture in their home of JB getting a hard on for his wife at age 25?

[Natalie68]

29 minutes ago, cereality said:

They're idiots no doubt but thank goodness Derick is now an idiot without a gross man bun. And here's a question - why on earth does Jilly Muffin's bathroom have a picture of her parents getting cozy on the couch in their younger days? They really want to see their parents/inlaws faces while doing bathroom things??They really want a frame picture in their home of JB getting a hard on for his wife at age 25?

Perhaps it helps move things along ;)

[SMama]

Only if you are nauseated and need to induce vomiting. 

[awaken]

13 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Honestly, though, this is against fundamentalist religious tenets, and that fact has been heavily stressed by conservative Protestants ever since the fundie evangelicals split off from the "mainline' Protestants back around the turn of the 20th century. 

Theologically, the mainline "liberal" Prots believe that wrong and sin can be and often are deeply intertwined with systems such as bad laws, wealthy interests, corporate misbehavior and so on. And they consider it their religious and human duty to address those things by improving systems and laws to help improve the lot of the weak and crack down on greedy ill-doing or just thoughtlessness that can come from those with power. 

Fundie evangelical theology rejects this entirely and asserts that every problem that we liberals would call "social" comes from individuals' failure to embrace Jesus and from the sins of individuals. That individual sins and lack of faith by poor people (or rich people) is what wrecks those people and wrecks society. They simply do not address systems at all. In fact, they consider the temptation to address it as a satanic temptation intended to divert Christians' attention from the It's-all-about-your-individual-choice thing. So, according to their theology -- what's preached at them by pastors and by evangelical "financial experts" like Ramsey and printed in the Wisdumb Booklets along with all other conservative evangelical literature (and there's a lot of it) -- the only thing that missionaries and ministers must address, and the only thing that matters at all is getting individuals to embrace Jesus and improve their individual behavior, such as by working harder and saving more money. 

It's popular to say that Jill and Derick and the rest of the Duggs are just stupid individuals who don't get the truth and to think that there may be lots of other fundie missionaries out there who focus on hospital building. But it's just not true. Jill and Derick and the Duggs in general are behaving in strict accord with the long-held theology of their group (the likely waning segment of conservative evangelicals who haven't slid toward liberal views): Do not ascribe social evils of any kind to systems of any kind. They flow entirely from lack of proper faith and from bad individual behavior by those who may claim that they suffer from social ills. This is the big division between their religious group and the rest of Christianity. I know Jill and Derick are probably too stupid to realize that this is what they're doing or to have thought it through. But it's the theology they've imbibed from this whole culture. And it brands that kind of PBS show as a satanic distraction from the real issues. Seriously. 

Thank you. As someone who was raised evangelical/conservative (surrounded by dreck's type of missionary) and now attending a liberal, social-justice oriented Protestant church (although because I appreciate the community and the work they do- my actual faith in anything spiritual dried up years ago) I've been seeing this play out in practice and trying to sort it all out. Thanks for this perspective!  

[Churchhoney]

49 minutes ago, awaken said:

Thank you. As someone who was raised evangelical/conservative (surrounded by dreck's type of missionary) and now attending a liberal, social-justice oriented Protestant church (although because I appreciate the community and the work they do- my actual faith in anything spiritual dried up years ago) I've been seeing this play out in practice and trying to sort it all out. Thanks for this perspective!  

Thank you. I'm glad to hear my somewhat fumbling account makes some sense to someone else who's been trying to think it through. I've had a bunch of conversations recently with some historians of religion and a couple theologians, and so I've been trying to apply and find a clear way to express everything I've heard and dimly understood. I'm actually grateful to Duggardom for giving me some actual examples to try to work it out on!

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, cereality said:

They're idiots no doubt but thank goodness Derick is now an idiot without a gross man bun. And here's a question - why on earth does Jilly Muffin's bathroom have a picture of her parents getting cozy on the couch in their younger days? They really want to see their parents/inlaws faces while doing bathroom things??They really want a frame picture in their home of JB getting a hard on for his wife at age 25?

I know.  I'd take a framed picture of my parents *now*, somewhere, though clearly not the bathroom (in fact, I've got some relatively recent ones on my phone); and if/when they die I'd probably like a fancy younger-person one; I'm damned if I had been married in my twenties if I'd think I needed a shrine to my parents to make my marriage successful, but this batch is so warped, they probably have made them into some kind of a nutty graven image.

[RazzleberryPie]

3 hours ago, Annb67 said:

Oh it gives me a glimpse alright. ?

So glad Jill was there to take vitals. She saved that woman's life, no doubt. 

I'm picturing somebody bleeding out or needing intubated, and Jill is trying her best to count respirations (it's hard to count AND look at a watch, y'all). 

I would not want Jill's medical expertise in putting a bandaid on a scraped knee.

Also - after taking vitals with her 'things' - then what? Would Jill have a clue what to do without a real medical professional there?

Edited April 28, 2017 by RazzleberryPie

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

So glad Jill was there to take vitals. She saved that woman's life, no doubt. 

I'm picturing somebody bleeding out or needing intubated, and Jill is trying her best to count respirations (it's hard to count AND look at a watch, y'all). 

I would not want Jill's medical expertise in putting a bandaid on a scraped knee.

Also - after taking vitals with her 'things' - then what? Would Jill have a clue what to do without a real medical professional there?

Check for a fetal heartbeat? ;)

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Check for a fetal heartbeat? ;)

I'm picturing it now.....

Jill: OH NO!!!!! I can't find a fetal heartbeat with this Doppler I ought off Amazon! 

Central American Person: She's 75. 

Another Central American: Did she eat the banana bread?

(No clue with this poor lady who Jill said had an asthma attack after driving on a dusty road, but banana bread is a really sketchy choice for giving food to anyone you don't know. Nuts and bananas are both something a lot of people develop allergies to, especially now later in life. One of my nieces who is a nurse never had any issues, but near the end of nursing school developed a latex allergy, and can't use normal gloves or eat bananas and avacados - there's some connection with a common allergen. She even wore a mask for a while, then had some kind of banana therapy allergy treatment so she still can't eat them for safety, but didn't have to wear the mask in the hospital everyday. Just gloves). 

[Mollie]

3 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I'm picturing it now.....

Jill: OH NO!!!!! I can't find a fetal heartbeat with this Doppler I ought off Amazon! 

 

Remember when Jill was examing pregnant Jessa with her 'medical things?'  She couldn't tell if the two heartbeats she was hearing were from Jessa and a fetus or from twins.  I guess it is hard to learn how to be a midwife with an online course. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Mollie

[RazzleberryPie]

31 minutes ago, Mollie said:

Remember when Jill was examing pregnant Jessa with her 'medical things?'  She couldn't tell if the two heartbeats she was hearing was from Jessa and a fetus or from twins.  I guess it is hard to learn how to be a midwife with an online course. 

Even I can tell the difference in a grown human and fetal heart rate. One part of me wants to say "bless her heart". The other part of her wants to say "DON'T KILL ANYBODY, DUMB ASS."

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, Mollie said:

Remember when Jill was examing pregnant Jessa with her 'medical things?'  She couldn't tell if the two heartbeats she was hearing were from Jessa and a fetus or from twins.  I guess it is hard to learn how to be a midwife with an online course. 

Yes! The best part about that scene was Bin in the background making a wtf? face as Jilly Muffin fumbled around. It's hilarious because I just got a smack down on YouTube from a Duggar fan after I said Jill's midwife "credentials" were a joke. She called me a "jealous hater" and said I didn't know what I was talking about. 

[Lunera]

51 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Yes! The best part about that scene was Bin in the background making a wtf? face as Jilly Muffin fumbled around. It's hilarious because I just got a smack down on YouTube from a Duggar fan after I said Jill's midwife "credentials" were a joke. She called me a "jealous hater" and said I didn't know what I was talking about. 

The leghumpers are a joke. I commented on a post asking them to explain what exactly they were doing in El Salvador and why they needed the 24k and speculated that they were hoarding the money for their own use when they were back home. I got so many hate comments.

[Lunera]

Izzy eating pupusas and sporting a black eye 

[Annb67]

Sweet Jesus jill! Your boobs look like saggy mangos. Please get a good NEW bra upon returning to the states.

[Lunera]

 Jill's famous banana bread